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The Occupy Wall Street protests appears to lack a unified demand and I couldn't think of any more apt for a Wall Street protest or any with as great of a potential to change the future of our country than debt-free currency. Our nation's founders credited their debt-free currency, Colonial Script, for their robust economy while Europe was in recession. President Abraham Lincoln credited debt-free currency, the Greenback, for the North's victory in the Civil War. If the U.S. Treasury prints a dollar and pays that dollar to a U.S. soldier, I don't believe that U.S. taxpayers should owe a foreign bank that dollar let alone pay interest on that dollar. Currently, when the U.S. prints currency, it hands it over to the Federal Reserve, a private corporation owned by foreign banks, for no charge and then the Federal Reserve loans it back to the U.S. government and charges us interest on our own dollar. The appropriate demand for a Wall Street protest would be to END THE FED AND ISSUE DEBT-FREE CURRENCY!

History of debt-free currency in America

Poll

Do you support debt-free currency?

84%16 votes
5%1 votes
10%2 votes

| 19 votes | Vote | Results

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Comment Preferences

  •  Ooookay, then. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    debedb

    I think your heart's in the right place, though.

    As for this:

    I couldn't think of any more apt for a Wall Street protest or any with as great of a potential to change the future of our country than debt-free currency.

    You're going on my kinder, gentler list, as well.

  •  Why do you come to advocate for Ron Paul policy? (0+ / 0-)

    FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

    by Roger Fox on Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 11:13:56 PM PDT

    •  so now (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Mac Avelli, DerAmi, debedb

      if a republican has an idea it has to be wrong?  Must be nice to live in such a simple world.

      Bad is never good until worse happens

      by dark daze on Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 11:23:18 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Actually it's the opposite policy. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      deconite, DerAmi

      The position of ending the Federal Reserve is similar to Ron Paul's position but the difference is that Ron Paul is against fiat currency and backs the Gold Standard whereas I am for fiat currency and I'm against the Gold Standard. Ron Paul supports "tight money" policy and I support "loose money" policy. So upon closer inspection your comment is incorrect. There are many other issues that deserve to be fought for I just couldn't think of any more appropriate for Wall Street. I worry that if we allow the Occupy Wall Street protest to get "watered-down" with other non-financial issues the media will frame it as just a "dirty hippy" protest.

      •  Oh. You were serious. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Roger Fox

        Well then:

        If the U.S. Treasury prints a dollar and pays that dollar to a U.S. soldier, I don't believe that U.S. taxpayers should owe a foreign bank that dollar let alone pay interest on that dollar. Currently, when the U.S. prints currency, it hands it over to the Federal Reserve, a private corporation owned by foreign banks

        Start over.

        The money is printed by the Federal Reserve, not the Treasury.

        Carry on.

        •  Minor detail (0+ / 0-)

          I cant be bothered... :~ )

          FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

          by Roger Fox on Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 11:49:58 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  No, the Treasury prints the money. (0+ / 0-)

          Actually the Treasury prints the money and sells it at cost of production, roughly $20 per 1000 bills regardless of denomination, to the Federal Reserve who then loans it to banks.

          The U.S. Treasury, through its Bureau of the Mint and Bureau of Engraving and Printing, actually produces the nation's cash supply and, in effect, sells the paper currency to the Federal Reserve Banks at manufacturing cost, and the coins at face value. The Federal Reserve Banks then distribute it to other financial institutions in various ways.
          My point is that we don't need the Fed "in the loop", the treasury should be free to print and issue our money independently.
      •  U R right fiat currency is a far better idea (0+ / 0-)

        Compared to Pauls.

        But I'm not interested in advocating to abolish the Fed when my efforts can go for something else I deem more bang for the buck.

        Tackling high finance is watering down. If the starting point is we are 99%ers. In fact I see #OccupyWallStreet as something that inevitably will be watered down because of its inherent nature.

        Jobs is the #1 Issue. Anything else will be watered down.

        FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

        by Roger Fox on Sat Oct 01, 2011 at 11:48:51 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Then a state bank like North Dakota's would help. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          DerAmi, phonegery

          I agree that jobs is the issue. If the treasury were free to issue money to 50 state banks for loan to small business and financing local infrastructure then that would facilitate job growth. For this reason taking the power of control of money supply out of the hands of foreign bankers and putting it into the hands of Americans would create jobs and this is the primary reason jobs aren't being creating now. It is a manufactured recession so the foreigns can buy our assets at fire sale prices.

          •  One thing that caught my attention (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Mac Avelli, phonegery

            as The Crisis™ was how billions or trillions worth of assets changed hands for pennies on the dollar. It was my belief at the time that the value of the assests would make a quick recovery but the job market wouldn't (i.e. "You'll take this pay cut AND LIKE IT!")

            Somebody knew what they were doing.

            This better be good. Because it is not going away.

            by DerAmi on Sun Oct 02, 2011 at 01:12:52 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Not convinced but I learned (0+ / 0-)

            the difference Gold standard-fiat currency.

            I dont see this

            the primary reason jobs aren't being creating now.

            I see the primary reason as we no longer tax at a hi rate and give huge tax breaks to invest capital incountry. Instead today, tax policy incentivizes capital moving overseas and to speculation, this insures capital volume and velocity into speculation, making bubbles worse and recession longer and deeper. BOE says 5% of GDP not being invested, thats 850 billion.

            Convince me, that "the primary reason jobs aren't being creating now". That switching to fiat currency will move that volume of capital to US job creation.

            FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

            by Roger Fox on Mon Oct 03, 2011 at 05:01:52 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  Wow. Just wow. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DerAmi, Mac Avelli

      Ron Paul also advocates getting our troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan. Are those now off limits too? Genius.

      Seriously. I just don't know...

  •  This ISN'T Ron Paul style currency. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mac Avelli

    What he's saying is we can just print money.  You don't need to issue debt to expand the money supply. This doesn't work too well in an economy whose dynamics are best described by an open system model, like Mugabe's Zimbabwe.  But it's basically the way money is supposed to work in an economy well modeled as a closed system.

    The US is not a closed system, but it is also not well understood as an open system.  It's a sort of hybrid between the two.  Open systems, and the study of open systems, is the study of some system that is loosely connected to a bath.  The statistics of that bath do not change in response to the interaction with the system we're modeling as open.  

    The US, on the other hand, has to be studied like Europe has to be studied, or China has to be studied.  As one of a very few nodes on a closed system.  Once you do that, you can add to the money supply to keep up with the generation of real wealth without worrying about any kind of payback.  That is to say the government can just print some cash and pay people for work, or give out grants to small business startups, or through just about any other reasonable avenue imaginable.  Taxes come in as well, but you have a net outflow, a small and dynamic net outflow, to prevent deflation or radical inflation from ever taking effect.  

    •  The concern cited is TOO MUCH MONEY SUPPLY... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DerAmi, phonegery

      ... and i am aware of that concern and sympathize with it. I am not arguing for any more quantitative easing. I am pointing out that if the money in circulation now was issued debt-free we wouldn't be drowning in debt. The Fed is thinking about QE3 so the money supply is expanding anyway and the principle and interest will go to Societe Generale and other European banks and that debt will be paid by me and you. Money supply is always going to be political. Now it's only influenced by billionaires. It would be nice for some democracy in the money supply. Although it may be counter-intuitive, as it currently is now there is greater pressure to print money because the printers, the owners of the Fed, are getting richer by it. If the people of America were getting richer the bankers would apply pressure to slow any increase in the money supply.

      •  Actually (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Mac Avelli

        If the Fed were completely nationalized(which is what you should be advocating for since we do need a central bank), and we started printing money, as long as that money put into circulation was used strictly for public infrastructure investment, i.e. to build roads, bridges etc, it would be largely non-inflationary.

        Unfortunately, the way the Fed's been printing money (QE), which is to funnel it to international banks, is inflationary.

        The key is that a fiat currency HAS to be invested in things that create value for society - like infrastructure. Lincoln spent his greenbacks on military buildup, which is usually a value sink. But it also created factories and other infrastructure investments that would have been a real value to society later if they weren't commandeered by the robber barons.

        •  Accounting 101 - Expenditures vs. Expenses. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Happy Rockefeller

          I agree. Spending money on capital expenditures that create more value down the road is the way to go. That lack of investment is how Republicans sabotaged the Stimulus. They loaded half off it up with things that weren't paying for forward looking expenditures but paying for past expense.

      •  Lincoln (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Mac Avelli

        Abraham Lincoln used the issuance of the 'greenbacks' to finance the Civil War.  The banks wanted to lend the government money at about 30% or so.  At those rates, Lincoln figured that the country would go bankrupt before the war could be won.

        A return of greenbacks to the money supply, used to pay government debts has been done before.

        Democrats - We represent America!

        by phonegery on Sun Oct 02, 2011 at 01:29:43 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Ah, in that case it's a terrible plan. (0+ / 0-)

        Debt deflation is a terrible thing, and inflation is good for debtors.  Interest rates are now so low that inflation actually outpaces them.  That gives our government an effective NEGATIVE interest rate, which means we can pull in free cash from foreign investors.  You're nuts.  Micro and macro are completely different things.  Applying household economics to national economies is like trying to use household piping technology to build a skyscraper.  

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