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There was a mass arrest at Occupy Boston last night:

Boston police moved in and began arresting scores of Occupy Boston protesters who refused to leave a large part of the Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy Greenway early this morning.

At 1:20 a.m., the first riot police officers lined up on Atlantic Avenue. Minutes later, dozens of sheriff vans and police wagons arrived and over 200 officers in uniforms and riot gear surrounded the Greenway.

Police Superintendent William Evans and Commissioner Edward F. Davis watched from across the street. Evans gave the crowd two minutes to disperse from the park, warning that they would be locked up if they did not comply.

The crowd of protesters, energized by the sudden appearance of the Boston and Transit police officers, chanted, ‘‘The people united will never be defeated,’’ “This is a peaceful protest,” and “the whole world is watching.’’

About 10 minutes later, the first officers entered the park and surrounded the group. Evans, using a loudspeaker, gave one more warning and then each protester was individually put on his or her stomach, cable-tied, and dragged off as others tore down tents and arrested and detained people on the fringe of the park.

A video of the scene can be viewed at the top of this article. Photos of the arrests on Flikr and Occupy Boston.

Occupy Boston is now faced with a new problem for an OWS group: raising money for bail. This is because these arrests are going beyond the catch and release pattern of police actions at OWS events thus far. Several protesters are being formally charged with trespassing and disturbing the peace.

This morning, Boston Mayor Tom Menino commented on the arrests:

"I sympathize with their issues, some of those issues we really have to look at in America, but when it comes to civil disobedience, I will not tolerate civil disobedience in the city of Boston," Mayor Menino said.

Given the history of Boston, it should be pointed out that Menino was not being ironic.

For more on this, UnaSpencer has a first hand account of what happened at Occupy Boston last night. There are also frequent updates from @Occupy_Boston on Twitter.

Originally posted to Chris Bowers on Tue Oct 11, 2011 at 09:33 AM PDT.

Also republished by Massachusetts Kosmopolitans, Occupy Wall Street, and Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Thanks! This helps confirm the reports. (22+ / 0-)

    And UnaSpencer's diary is a very detailed, well-written account that everyone should read.

    99%er. 100% opposed to fundamentalist/neoconservative/neoliberal oligarchs.

    by blueoasis on Tue Oct 11, 2011 at 09:38:41 AM PDT

  •  C'mon...these people must have expected this... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tacklelady, Kickemout, erush1345, dinotrac

    They had been warned numerous times...and the fact there were only 9 charges (as reported by this diary) out of over 100 arrests hardly seems outrageous.

    If you are going to practice civil disobedience you must accept the reasonable consequences.

    I'll be pleased when the diaries return to the issues of change that the 99% need and want and not so much on faux drama.

    Wonders are many, but none so wonderful as man.

    by Morgan Sandlin on Tue Oct 11, 2011 at 09:44:14 AM PDT

    •  The point missed is that the BPD chose to escalate (9+ / 0-)

      the situation.  

      They could have continued with the dialog they'd been having with occupyboston, but chose to break it off and proceed with an extreme show of force.

      They could have waited to conduct this action during the day, when it would be safer for protester and police alike.  They chose not to.

      Yes, the protesters were ready for"reasonable consequences."  I'm not convinced storming a park at 1:30 am is reasonable.

      We are the 99% we've been waiting for -DCBlue - 8.12 - 6.56

      by DCBlue on Tue Oct 11, 2011 at 09:59:23 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  No..the BPD did not make that choice... (5+ / 0-)

        The individuals who refused to ignore repeated requests that went on for HOURS did.

        ...and I haven't seen evidence of "storming"...quite the opposite.

        There was another area that was undisturbed.

        My issue is if an individual makes a choice of participating in civil disobedience, fine. But don't whine as you experience the results you intended.

        Wonders are many, but none so wonderful as man.

        by Morgan Sandlin on Tue Oct 11, 2011 at 10:08:31 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  So you are saying the protesters or the mayor (7+ / 0-)

          were physically pushing the police into the park.

          I'm sure I saw the police walking into that park - batons and zip ties in hand.

          I'm not taking issue with the consequences with civil disobedience.  I'm taking issue with doing it under the cover of darkness, which could lead to harm of protesters or police.  

          I stand by my point that Boston PD chose to escalate the situation, when no imminent harm to persons or property was evident.

          At OWS, the city has invited the protesters to stay as long as they chose.  Same with several other municipalities across the nation.

          Boston Police and city government chose to storm that park last night, simply to quell the demonstration.

          Also, from reports by organizers, the Greenway Conservancy agreed to let Occupy Boston stay at the second location, providing the protesters respected plantings there.  Protesters had actively worked to cordon off those plantings.

          We are the 99% we've been waiting for -DCBlue - 8.12 - 6.56

          by DCBlue on Tue Oct 11, 2011 at 10:23:33 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  It's all so familiar to me (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Empower Ink

            especially since I have been rereading about it lately, catching up on my Mayor Richard J. Daley history. I remember the summer of 1968 back home in Chicago very very well.

            Take the "Can't(or)" out of Congress. Support E. Wayne Powell in Va-07. http://www.ewaynepowell.com/

            by anastasia p on Tue Oct 11, 2011 at 07:36:14 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  The police are deployed by the mayor. They're just (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            jofr

            doing what they're directed to do.  

            •  Yep. Mayor says attack, they attack. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              brein

              There was a legal adviser on the scene, and she said the cops were very "brutal". (She also got arrested, which is also unusual) Last night they defaulted to tackling and beating the unarmed peaceful protesters.

              Corporations rule stealing money, legally. Time to take it back!

              by Diebold Hacker on Tue Oct 11, 2011 at 10:59:01 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  and to raise funds to replace anything damaged. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            DCBlue, dilutedviking

            in fact, the Greenway could probably become a fundraising darling, it if was smart.

            Were I on that board, I'd be putting out press releases about supporting the movement and that in order to support the movement, we are raising funds to repair or replace anything that might be needed. They could call it the OccupyFund. I bet they'd raise millions.

            Please remember to Witness Revolution. It means so much to them that we pay attention.

            by UnaSpenser on Tue Oct 11, 2011 at 07:58:31 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  No more than a trigger pushes a bullet, (0+ / 0-)

            but the result is predictable.

            And where's the problem with that?

            Have you ever heard the phrase "Courage of your convictions"?

            Civil disobedience id pointless if you don't expect, or, at the very least, accept the possibility of,  consequences.

            You ignore police you get arrested.
            It's been done that way for years and years.

            At least these guys didn't go in swinging clubs and siccing dogs, etc.  Pretty damned mild compared to the old days.

            LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

            by dinotrac on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 03:51:25 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  huge difference between being arrested and being (5+ / 0-)

          brutally arrested.

          We were willing to be arrested peacefully and without arrested. They choice to use violence and to beat us up.

          Please remember to Witness Revolution. It means so much to them that we pay attention.

          by UnaSpenser on Tue Oct 11, 2011 at 07:56:05 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  "extreme show of force," "when it would be safer"? (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Justanothernyer, erush1345, drmah

        Were there any injuries?  What force was used?

        •  "What force was used?" (5+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          BOHICA, KenBee, SadieB, Empower Ink, Matt Z

          The feed showed hundreds of police, and at least 20 large paddy wagons advancing on peaceful protesters.  To me, this is an "extreme show of force."  Your definition may vary.

          It is true that there is no actual footage akin to the police in NYC swinging batons indiscriminately.  Good, I'm glad for that.  Thankfully, apparently there were no injuries.

          Again, back to my original point:  The police chose to advance on the park, in very large numbers, at 1:30 am.  This action could have endangered all who were on the scene, protester and police alike.  

          They could have continued dialog with protesters in an attempt to come to another resolution, but chose not to.  They could have conducted this action during in daylight, when it would have been safer, but chose not to.

          We are the 99% we've been waiting for -DCBlue - 8.12 - 6.56

          by DCBlue on Tue Oct 11, 2011 at 10:40:42 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  "Show" of force as opposed to actual force? (0+ / 0-)

            And no injuries?

            Not even a little tear gas?

            What kind of police bullies are these?

            Better question:

            Where in the hell were they back in my protesting days?

            LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

            by dinotrac on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 03:54:24 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  That the police are going to employ (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            DCBlue

            intimidation tactics should probably be understood (showing up in full riot gear, pulling out the paddy wagons, setting up medical tents and all the other bells and whistles of "full force", etc).  That's kind of what the police do when they are trying to get people to do what they want, whether it be an individual suspect, an armed perpetrator or a peaceable group.  Whether or not that's right is a different topic altogether and one that has been explored in many ways.

            As for the middle of the night, one could make a case that this was safer for the general public that way, during the day the chance of injury or pulling in bystanders is much greater.  So there is an alternate interpretation to the police action.  I don't want to place bets on which interpretation is true (both probably play into it), but a different way of looking at it that is reasonable, if not necessarily sympathetic, does exist.

            By the same token, yes they could have continued dialogue, but obviously they got orders from someplace not to.  Decisions like this one come from very high up the pay scale, you can be sure.

            That's the leverage point for the protesters, it seems to me.  Why are the PTB in Boston so radically different from their counterparts in other cities around the country?  And the irony that this is Boston for crying out loud, is lost on no one, imho.

            Even Tea Partiers can get that one.

            Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel

            by a gilas girl on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 09:26:50 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  First hand account (9+ / 0-)
          After a 2-minute warning to us, followed by a 30-minute warning, a burly line of Boston police advanced against our line of Smedleys.  They "made contact" without a word.  I was prepared to be arrested, as I think the others were; but I never heard the words "You are under arrest." or anything like it. A police officer in his 30s and about half again as big as I was walked right up to me and pushed me over--not pushed me back, but pushed me over. I fell onto the pavement of the path and rolled against some kind of stanchion.  Protesters immediately began asking me if I was all right and if I needed medical atttention; and they helped me to my feet.  I hobbled over to the side after rescuing my fallen flag and then sat out the rest of the action.

          Source

          "Remember Bob. No fear, no envy, no meanness" Liam Clancy to Bob Dylan

          by BOHICA on Tue Oct 11, 2011 at 10:44:37 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  If that's as bad as it got ... (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            BOHICA, erush1345, dinotrac

            ... that's hardly extreme.  Warnings?  Slowly advancing lines?

            •  For police, that's like going out on a date (7+ / 0-)

              After all, she was asking for it.

              Seriously, we now accept police violence as normal. Don't you find that a bit disturbing?

              look for my eSci diary series Thursday evening. "Forgive them; for they know not what they do."

              by FishOutofWater on Tue Oct 11, 2011 at 07:39:49 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  See my comment above (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                FishOutofWater

                Adam's thinking like a lawyer on this. That's my guess here. And he's probably right, as a lawyer. Then again, the lawyer on the NLG who was arrested said it was excessive force or brutality (can't recall but easy to Google).

                So maybe it's just a personal difference in terms.

                •  He's thinking like somebody who understands (0+ / 0-)

                  that police have to worry about everybody's safety, including their own.

                  Funny thing:

                  1. Police can't read minds.
                  2. In any group that refuses to obey their commands, there may be a few who might actually wish them harm.
                  3. They don't want to be harmed any more than you do.

                  Where you see peaceful protesters, police have little choice but to see a mob breaking the law, refusing orders to leave, and ignoring warnings of the consequences.

                  In their position, there's really no other way to see it.

                  LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

                  by dinotrac on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 04:00:42 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  "Police have little choice?" (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    brein

                    Bullshit. They have freewill, the same as any of us. They are responsible for their actions.

                    Of course, the good news is the authorities simply have no understanding of jujitsu.

                    They arrested a handful of people in New York, the crowd doubled. They arrested more, it increased again.

                    They are fools to have done what they did in Boston.

                    Truly the destruction of the earth only results from the destitution of its inhabitants, and its inhabitants become destitute only when rulers concern themselves with amassing wealth. Caliph Ali, 7th century

                    by SadieB on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 04:33:56 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  They also have familes, etc, just the same as any (0+ / 0-)

                      of us.

                      Yes, they are responsible for their actions.
                      So are the protesters.
                      Even a cursory study of civil disobedience will reveal the SHOCKING news that it can result in owies.

                      LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

                      by dinotrac on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 04:40:22 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

              •  Of course we acceot it as normal. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                SadieB

                This hasn't been a genuinely free country since Kennedy was forced to take Johnson as his running mate.  It's just taken us getting conned by "Change" to recognize that not only did we not change directions, things are still getting worse under Obama.  Yes, McCain would have been worse, but we still have an American soldier being tortured by his own country, in hopes that he will give them the smoking gun they need to convict Assange of espionage for disclosing multiple American War Crimes.  

                Workers of the world, unite! You have nothing to lose but your shackles. It is by the picket line and direct action that true freedom will be won, not by electing people who promise to screw us less than the other guy.

                by rhonan on Tue Oct 11, 2011 at 11:57:54 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

        •  Re: (11+ / 0-)
          Urszula Masny-Latos, executive director of the National Lawyers Guild’s Northeast regional office, said she was on the scene as a legal observer. The Guild is a national non-profit that often represents people engaged in civil disobedience.

          Masny-Latos said no protesters fought with police. She said police could have employed a technique routinely used at other protests – police approach a protester, tell them they are violating the law, and the protester then submits to being taken into custody – and still achieved their goal of clearing the area.

          "They really attacked,’’ Masny-Latos said of police. “They used force that was completely unnecessary. … It was just brutal. I have no idea why they arrested us with such force.’’

          To her shock, Masny-Latos herself was among those arrested. She said Boston police usually respect the legal observers the guild routinely dispatches to public protests.

          However, even though she was wearing a green hat with the words, “legal observer’’ clearly visible, Masny-Latos said, she was the second person arrested by police.

          “It was very surprising,’’ she said of being arrested. “Boston police usually respect our legal observers. And they usually leave us alone. … I was legal observing. I wasn’t even chanting anything.’’

          “Four officers grabbed me and dragged me,’’ she said. “I begged them to stop, [told them that that] they were hurting me. I have no idea why they arrested us with such force.’’

          http://www.boston.com/...

          We are the 99% we've been waiting for -DCBlue - 8.12 - 6.56

          by DCBlue on Tue Oct 11, 2011 at 04:20:22 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  This is an extreme use of force (0+ / 0-)

        Your the middle aged parent of a Korean university student and  are peacefully protesting against an escalation of force to used against those occupying Yonsei university as announced by the government.  Your sitting on the sidewalk chanting slogans when without any provocation on your groups part the riot police attack you with batons and pepper spray. Followed by kicking and punching.  

        I witnessed that: That is an extreme use of force.    

        •  Sorry, I didn't realize this was a contest. (0+ / 0-)

          But we're all the 99%, man. We forget that at our peril.

          Truly the destruction of the earth only results from the destitution of its inhabitants, and its inhabitants become destitute only when rulers concern themselves with amassing wealth. Caliph Ali, 7th century

          by SadieB on Tue Oct 11, 2011 at 08:23:05 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  a contest, you say? back when *I* was a young (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Diebold Hacker, dinotrac, brein

            protestor, we got tear-gassed before we got beat up. So we win . . .    ;)

            Seriously, though, the cops know the routine--they've seen the game before and they know all the rules that both sides expect to play by. And if they decide to rough people up, it's just because somebody high up is trying to be a prick.

            •  Just as seriously, protestors should know (0+ / 0-)

              the routine and realize that cops can make arrests and are not obligated to treat them like princes and princesses.

              In principle, I agree with you that cops have a lot of choice in what they're doing, but police get to worry about their own safety.  The difference between a large crowd of protestors and a mob is just a few people who decide to give the pigs what they've got coming.

              And -- it doesn't matter how many times the leaders reassure them.  You can't  -CAN'T- guarantee the actions of everybody in a freely assembled crowd like that.  Was true in my day and is still true today.

              LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

              by dinotrac on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 04:07:50 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  No one is asking to be treated like (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                brein

                princes and princesses. Did you read the diary?

                And if cops are too fearful to do their jobs with dignity and professionalism, maybe they need to find another line of work?

                Truly the destruction of the earth only results from the destitution of its inhabitants, and its inhabitants become destitute only when rulers concern themselves with amassing wealth. Caliph Ali, 7th century

                by SadieB on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 04:37:04 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Sounds like they are. (0+ / 0-)

                  Reasonable people may disagree.

                  As to cops and fear, perhaps you avoid the news.
                  Cops get shot at traffic stops.
                  Cops get bricks hurled their way at "peaceful demonstrations".

                  You may prefer they all get killed.
                  You may actually care about their safety.

                  I have no way to know.

                  One thing I do know: THEY care, and they are fully permitted to care.

                  LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

                  by dinotrac on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 04:43:12 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  You love Big Brother, got it. (0+ / 0-)

                    Well, all I can say is, when they come for you, don't look around for solidarity, because everyone else will already be gone.

                    Truly the destruction of the earth only results from the destitution of its inhabitants, and its inhabitants become destitute only when rulers concern themselves with amassing wealth. Caliph Ali, 7th century

                    by SadieB on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 04:56:54 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

  •  Isn't There A Place Called (8+ / 0-)

    Faneuil Hallin Boston. Where citizens have openly debated the topics of the day since 1742? Things like should they fight the British. Slavery. You name it. That comment from the Mayor is bizarre to say the least.

    When opportunity calls pick up the phone and give it directions to your house.

    by webranding on Tue Oct 11, 2011 at 09:45:17 AM PDT

    •  webbranding - regarding Faneuil Hall (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      webranding

      It has been a while since I was at Faneuil Hall but I would think that you need a permit to have a meeting inside. The area around the Hall isn't spacious and is busy with pedestrians during the day.  I don't think it is a place that protesters could legally occupy, but that's just a guess.  

      "let's talk about that"

      by VClib on Tue Oct 11, 2011 at 09:51:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I Am Pretty Sure They Could (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        blueoasis

        First he is "manned" by a National Parks guy. Or at least it was the times I've been there. And there is a ton of space, since all around it is a mall. It would just seem like a logical place on multiple levels.

        When opportunity calls pick up the phone and give it directions to your house.

        by webranding on Tue Oct 11, 2011 at 09:54:37 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It would be a good place to hold (0+ / 0-)

          a rally or protest, but do you think it would be a good place for people to live for weeks or longer?

          "let's talk about that"

          by VClib on Tue Oct 11, 2011 at 10:06:44 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  it would be far more disruptive to local business (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Empower Ink, DamselleFly, VClib

            it is an active mall with an extensive food court and shops all around. One aspect of the Dewey Square location was that we could occupy it without disrupting much normal activity. The other square we occupied last night gets virtually no use.

            So, the idea was to be public but not such a nuisance. At first. Eventually, as it naturally grows, if the economic injustices are not addressed, people will have to occupy more and more public space. If you make it impossible to live in private space, they have no choice.

            28% unemployment for those between 20 an 29. That's a key statistic for a revolution. These policies and practices that continue to fill the coffers of the wealthy and drain the life out of the rest of us, have come to a head.

            Please remember to Witness Revolution. It means so much to them that we pay attention.

            by UnaSpenser on Tue Oct 11, 2011 at 07:44:03 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  I've always been amazed (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        peptabysmal, JClarkPDX

        that in NYC, at least, you are required to get a permit to protest -- a permit, to exercise your right of freedom to assemble.

        I don't know what the rules are in Boston, but the heavy regulation of that right has always bothered me, similar to the laws creating hurdles to votiing.

        •  Bruorton - permit required (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          erush1345

          As an individual you can protest as much as you would like in NYC. However, the SCOTUS has upheld many times that governments can restrict, the time, place, and duration of gatherings that could interfere with other citizens, or create a hazard. Part of the permit process is to be sure you are not violating the rights of others, or any city ordinances.

          "let's talk about that"

          by VClib on Tue Oct 11, 2011 at 11:31:17 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  The first amendment is so quaint (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            UnaSpenser, SadieB, JClarkPDX

            just like the Geneva convention.

            The right to peaceably assemble. Unless it offends someone with money.

            look for my eSci diary series Thursday evening. "Forgive them; for they know not what they do."

            by FishOutofWater on Tue Oct 11, 2011 at 07:42:51 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Uh, yeah (0+ / 0-)

            I didn't say I was clueless about how it came about or the arguments trying to justify it.  I just said I was amazed, and bothered by this hurdle to exercising a constitutional right.

            Anyone who thinks the "permit process" isn't abused by those in power has not paid much attention.  And since when, anyway, should city ordinances trump the Bill of Rights?

            •  Bruorton - much of this law was established (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              brein

              by abortion protesters. The abortion protest movement has been the driver for much of this area of the law. The protestors argued that they had rights of assembly and free speech that allowed them to substantially interfere with the rights of women to access abortion providers.  What the SCOTUS  has tried to do is balance the free speech and rights to peacefully assemble with the rights of all the non-protesting citizens. The right to assemble is not a right to use public spaces, those two concepts are not connected. The right to free speech does not give any protest group the right to trample on the freedoms of non-protesters. The one thing the Court has been very clear on is that any restrictions must be content neutral so that OWS and the abortion protesters must be held to the same standards.

              "let's talk about that"

              by VClib on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 09:34:25 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  Bizarre, (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      blueoasis
      dis·in·gen·u·ous

      or both.

    •  Sounds like he's more a follower (0+ / 0-)

      of John Winthrop than of the rabble rousers at Faneuil Hall.

      "It's called the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it." George Carlin

      by psnyder on Tue Oct 11, 2011 at 07:38:27 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Give the history of Boston (13+ / 0-)
    "Given the history of Boston, it should be pointed out that Menino was not being ironic."

    Quote of the day, bar none. Thanks!

  •  Why we fight. thanks for photolinks (6+ / 0-)

    I am off my metas! Präsidentenelf-maßschach; Warning-Some Snark Above"Nous sommes un groupuscule" (-9.50; -7.03)

    by annieli on Tue Oct 11, 2011 at 09:58:57 AM PDT

  •  He'd be a fine Boston Mayor..under British rule (6+ / 0-)

    just sayin

  •  Isn't getting arrested (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    UnaSpenser

    the reason the people were refusing to move?

    Maybe I'm missing something.  You're supposed to get arrested at a demonstration.  It brings attention.  

    Still enjoying my stimulus package.

    by Kevvboy on Tue Oct 11, 2011 at 07:34:04 PM PDT

    •  it's a paradox. You're being civilly disobedient (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SadieB, Empower Ink

      for a reason. So, you're risking getting arrested. But, there is also the hope that the powers that be see the value in what you're doing and agree not to arrest you. At best, laws even get changed.

      In Atlanta, the mayor opted not to arrest and he even visited the occupation.

      Please remember to Witness Revolution. It means so much to them that we pay attention.

      by UnaSpenser on Tue Oct 11, 2011 at 07:37:59 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  But the fact that only nine were charged (0+ / 0-)

        in Boston is not really what you would call a massive police overreaction, is it?

        Still enjoying my stimulus package.

        by Kevvboy on Tue Oct 11, 2011 at 07:39:02 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I take it you won't be contributing to the bail (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          vacantlook

          fund, then?

          Fine, why not move along and give our real heroes a break.

          Truly the destruction of the earth only results from the destitution of its inhabitants, and its inhabitants become destitute only when rulers concern themselves with amassing wealth. Caliph Ali, 7th century

          by SadieB on Tue Oct 11, 2011 at 07:52:30 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You are missing my point. (0+ / 0-)

            I HATE the fact that any time anyone asks a question about tactics or strategy, some officious pseudo OWS person comes along to tell them they must be standing  with the enemy!  How dare you!  I've already contributed more to OWS than you have and I will bet you on that.

            My point is, getting arrested is EXACTLY the point here. It is the desired result. Calling more attention to the cause.  Massive police overreaction is what is WANTED because it brings attention as it did last weekend on the Brooklyn Bridge.  

            But if you cant even discuss tactics/strategy without someone coming along and telling you to fucking "move along" it ain't much of a movement, is it?

            Still enjoying my stimulus package.

            by Kevvboy on Tue Oct 11, 2011 at 07:56:22 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I hate the fact that when people are getting beat (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              vacantlook

              up some officious little armchair quarterback comes along and tells them "Suck it up! Be a man! MLK did this and that!"

              You are no MLK.

              Truly the destruction of the earth only results from the destitution of its inhabitants, and its inhabitants become destitute only when rulers concern themselves with amassing wealth. Caliph Ali, 7th century

              by SadieB on Tue Oct 11, 2011 at 08:09:06 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  the violence of how they arrested 139 people (0+ / 0-)

          was the overreaction.

          We made it publicly known that we would not resist arrest. They could have tapped people on the shoulder and said, "come with me" and we would have come. There very first move was to, in full riot gear, tackle the protesters with crushing blows to their faces. It was completely unnecessary.

          while you push up against the laws and yes, arrests can bring attention, we really didn't expect that much violence. It was shocking, since we had been very communicative with police and really expected to simply be cuffed and walked away. Not beaten and trampled and dragged. The vets were shocked. Imagine how civilians who aren't trained for combat felt.

          Please remember to Witness Revolution. It means so much to them that we pay attention.

          by UnaSpenser on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 09:13:25 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  MLK liked to fill the jails (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        dinotrac

        with protestors, especially innocent schoolchildren and old ladies, as a way of awakening the moral instinct of the jailers.

        Still enjoying my stimulus package.

        by Kevvboy on Tue Oct 11, 2011 at 07:40:12 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  MLK liked no such thing. (0+ / 0-)

          Truly the destruction of the earth only results from the destitution of its inhabitants, and its inhabitants become destitute only when rulers concern themselves with amassing wealth. Caliph Ali, 7th century

          by SadieB on Tue Oct 11, 2011 at 07:55:05 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  He most certainly did. (0+ / 0-)

            He called out thousands of schoolchildren on many days during the Birmingham campaign.  He LOVED having innocent people arrested to prove his point.  You really should go read a bit of history of the Movement.

            Still enjoying my stimulus package.

            by Kevvboy on Tue Oct 11, 2011 at 07:58:08 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I have. I also have friends who were in the (0+ / 0-)

              movement, at the Highlander School, at SCLC. They reported no such tales of sadism. I think maybe you are projecting.

              Truly the destruction of the earth only results from the destitution of its inhabitants, and its inhabitants become destitute only when rulers concern themselves with amassing wealth. Caliph Ali, 7th century

              by SadieB on Tue Oct 11, 2011 at 08:10:39 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Did people enter into harms way under King's (0+ / 0-)

              influence? Yes. But they chose to do it because they trusted him and they trusted the Movement. And I seriously doubt he ever reveled or took pleasure in their suffering. I think it probably tore him up inside.

              And that's the key-- you seem to want to inspire people to take those same kinds of risks again, but you don't inspire people by mocking and criticizing them, telling them they aren't good enough. King knew that.

              Truly the destruction of the earth only results from the destitution of its inhabitants, and its inhabitants become destitute only when rulers concern themselves with amassing wealth. Caliph Ali, 7th century

              by SadieB on Tue Oct 11, 2011 at 08:18:56 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  MLK video: "[We'll] fill up all of the jails..." (0+ / 0-)

            in the state of Mississippi"

          •  Maybe liked is too strong a word, but (0+ / 0-)

            he certainly went in with eyes wide open, and led others in with him.

            The police reaction is part of the civil disobedience strategy. The willingness to be arrested is a badge of commitment.

            LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

            by dinotrac on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 04:11:30 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I know that. I've read Gene Sharp cover-to-cover, (0+ / 0-)

              more than once. But that doesn't justify police brutality, nor is it any excuse for saying "stop your sniveling."

              The police are wrong, they will lose and they are wrong.

              Truly the destruction of the earth only results from the destitution of its inhabitants, and its inhabitants become destitute only when rulers concern themselves with amassing wealth. Caliph Ali, 7th century

              by SadieB on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 04:43:49 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Methinks you don't know the meaning of (0+ / 0-)

                brutality.

                Seriously.

                Arrests can be nasty things.

                LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

                by dinotrac on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 06:11:00 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  even the trained legal observers called it (0+ / 0-)

                  brutality. Were you there being tackled by linebacker-sized police in riot gear?

                  How dare you tell those of us who were there that we can't call it brutality. Tell it to the people who were choked. Or the  man whose wrist was slit. Or my friends with bruises and knicks on their faces. Or anyone who was there and was shaking from the trauma of it. It was brutal. Quick, but brutal. And unnecessarily so.

                  I guess you've been arrested a lot, since you seem to know and have your own sanctioned use of language surrounding the experience.

                  Please remember to Witness Revolution. It means so much to them that we pay attention.

                  by UnaSpenser on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 09:18:36 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

    •  Which begs the question of police conduct. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Diebold Hacker

      As is patently clear from history, if not the recent viral video of women being chemically attacked for no good reason, cracking down on protestors when the cameras are rolling is counter-productive, tactically, if your intent is to quell protests.

      Then, too, to quell the protests just start hauling off some banksters and charging them with crimes. That's take the wind out of OWS' sails. Fire Geithner, break up BofA, reinstate Glass-Stengel. Put me in charge of getting rid of the uprising. I know exactly what to do. It's called justice.

  •  not INTENTIONALLY ironic (0+ / 0-)

    you mean

  •  Bail money: we've already raised more than (8+ / 0-)

    we needed. Not a problem.

    Please remember to Witness Revolution. It means so much to them that we pay attention.

    by UnaSpenser on Tue Oct 11, 2011 at 07:35:56 PM PDT

  •  did they break the law? The only question n/t (0+ / 0-)
  •  Well, per capita, I'd say we topped that in (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SadieB, Empower Ink

    Des Moines just last night.  Seems there is an obscure 11:00 closing time at the state capitol now, because it is a "State Park".  Of course, this is the very first time anyone can find in recorded history that people have been arrested after 11:00 pm on the capitol grounds.

    Terry Branstad's spokesman wants everyone to know he had nothing to do with it.  The Des Moines Gannett is, of course, schizo about the whole thing.  Or, trying to be on all sides of the issue.

  •  Anonamous new video (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bluicebank

    "IJDH provides the tools for people who care about Haiti to make a real difference on the ground."-- Bishop Thomas Gumbleton

    by allie123 on Tue Oct 11, 2011 at 07:50:58 PM PDT

  •  Thanks for featuring UnaSpenser's firsthand (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    On The Bus, SadieB, sombra, JClarkPDX

    story; I feel like we're really fortunate to have her -- a longstanding Kossack -- with really solid documentation of the incident well before it was FP'd. A group of us liveblogged on the issue late last night (not surprisingly, many of us are former BP and JNI livebloggers) trying to make sense of the many conflicting reports that were coming in fast and furiously, and we were all keeping her in mind when it was brought up that she was occupying there.

    I think it will take a while to piece together what happened because it was complicated, so to be able to get as many stories as possible is really important. I found one other blogger who also posted there story about being arrested with some photos, but so far, that is it.

    One other Kossack who isn't really familiar to me made a post about his or her arrest as well. I don't have either link handy, sorry.

    Thanks for this, Chris.

    I saw tons of photos of the protesters being tied up and taken off. At least one was definitely bleeding (nothing fatal, but still, for a nonviolent protest, it seemed senseless to me).

    Also, there is reportedly one of the Veteran's for Peace who gave his account on the Thom Hartmann show today, but I don't think the transcript is online yet.

  •  My irony meter is broken. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JClarkPDX, Diebold Hacker, Matt Z

    Two hundred and thiry-eight years ago, a group of disenfranchised citizens of Massachusetts chose to protest corporate profiteering and injustice by means far more provocative than civil disobedience.

    The event? The Boston Tea Party, 1773, in which the corporate stooges of the British East India Company were put on notice that their unchallenged rule was drawing to an end.

    Of all the people to see claming down on peaceful protest, the Mayor of Boston is perhaps the more ironic.

  •  Here in Minneapolis... (0+ / 0-)

    ... the police have been very cooperative (aside from not letting Occupy Minnesota erect tents at night for sleeping).  But the city's surveillance cameras are being used to track the protestors, and I've heard reports that at least three double-rotor helicopters have patrolled the area.

    Shades of the overreaction at the 2008 Republican National Convention!

    Aside:  I'm still working on the videos and interviews so haven't made a diary, but the first video is up:  Occupy Minnesota 10/19/11 David (a patriot speaks) and Occupy Minnesota is a public Facebook gallery.

    "What doesn't have credibility today is the truth." -- Bill Moyers, The Daily Show 6/22/05

    by Baron Dave on Tue Oct 11, 2011 at 08:01:44 PM PDT

  •  This was named/dedicated to Rose Kennedy? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dube

    John, Bobby & Teddy must be turning over in their graves.

    I fall down, I get up, I keep dancing.

    by DamselleFly on Tue Oct 11, 2011 at 08:06:28 PM PDT

  •  This just hit the wires at 9:30 PM? n/t (0+ / 0-)
  •  100 good reasons not to vote for Obama. (0+ / 1-)
    Recommended by:
    Hidden by:
    Rich in PA

    He promised change, and all he changed is the face of the oppressor.  I'll vote for Obama when he give Bradley manning a blanket pardon, an honorable discharge, and an official apology for being tortured by his government; and he starts restoring all the regulations that were removed from the financial system that allowed the crash.  In other words, I'm never voting for him again.  I'm done hoping for change.  I've given up on the Democratic party as an effective means of giving this country good government.  Obama has shown me that the Democratic Party, and the democratic process, are a wholly owned subsidiary of Wall Street.  I'm done asking for change, I now demand it.

    Workers of the world, unite! You have nothing to lose but your shackles. It is by the picket line and direct action that true freedom will be won, not by electing people who promise to screw us less than the other guy.

    by rhonan on Tue Oct 11, 2011 at 11:04:08 PM PDT

    •  OK, then you can't be here anymore. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Matt Z

      I think that was made pretty clear, repeatedly.  

      But nobody's buying flowers from the flower lady.

      by Rich in PA on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 03:45:02 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Funny, I thought this was a progressive site. (0+ / 0-)

        I didn't hear that DailyKOS was now part of Obama2012.  I also never thought this site was dedicated to supporting bad democrats and crony capitalism.  I guess you needed to feel some sense of power, you you slap an HR on someone who dared to differ too much from what you like to hear.  Grow up.

        Workers of the world, unite! You have nothing to lose but your shackles. It is by the picket line and direct action that true freedom will be won, not by electing people who promise to screw us less than the other guy.

        by rhonan on Mon Oct 17, 2011 at 04:56:35 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  There is one reason for hope -- OWS is a real (0+ / 0-)

      game changer.

      The people in the streets used to be/could be/should be Democratic voters. But the people in the skyscrapers are Democratic patrons. For too long the Party has gotten away with "having it both ways" but OWS changes the that, it means they are finally being forced to choose, out in the open.

      This thing could split the Party, and in a good way.

      Truly the destruction of the earth only results from the destitution of its inhabitants, and its inhabitants become destitute only when rulers concern themselves with amassing wealth. Caliph Ali, 7th century

      by SadieB on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 04:52:46 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  In 2008 I was fond of saying Obama was a (0+ / 0-)

        transformational candidate, but not in the way everyone else seemed to think he was.

        He was not the first of a new kind of Democrat but the last of the old kind.

        I may be about to be proven right.

        Truly the destruction of the earth only results from the destitution of its inhabitants, and its inhabitants become destitute only when rulers concern themselves with amassing wealth. Caliph Ali, 7th century

        by SadieB on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 04:59:32 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Were they actually disturbing the peace though (0+ / 0-)

    If they were blocking traffic or harassing passer-bys and such, then its fair they get arrested but otherwise, they should be allowed to sit and protest.

  •  The obvious second layer of irony... (0+ / 0-)

    ...beyond the Boston-specific layer is that it's the very intolerance of authority for civil disobedience that makes it disobedience at all.  

    But nobody's buying flowers from the flower lady.

    by Rich in PA on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 03:44:19 AM PDT

  •  There was No Reason to get arrested (0+ / 0-)

    These demonstrators had the choice to get arrested or not.  They chose to be arrested.  Now they want others to pay their bail.  

    They would not need bail if they had chosen to move along.  

    Now their organization, instead of organizing, is busy raising bail money.  

    Something similar happened to our anti-apartheid group at in college.  The top exec's got themselves arrested one day for obstructing a public meeting (chained themselves to a doorway).  After that I got repeated calls asking for bail money.  Ridiculous!  We were college kids.  No money!  

    Occupy is about people with little or no money!  

    And now their organization in Boston is supposed to spend all of its time catering to these yahoos?  Ridiculous!

    Thoreau said that you should not commit civil disobedience if you are unwilling to pay the penalty for doing so.  

    The robb'd that smiles steals something from the thief. -- Shakespeare

    by not2plato on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 05:04:28 AM PDT

    •  Bail has already been raised. Thank you for your (0+ / 0-)

      concern.

      Truly the destruction of the earth only results from the destitution of its inhabitants, and its inhabitants become destitute only when rulers concern themselves with amassing wealth. Caliph Ali, 7th century

      by SadieB on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 05:44:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  When does (0+ / 0-)

    Menino's term end, and who is available and qualified to run against him?

    I am not religious, and did NOT say I enjoyed sects.

    by trumpeter on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 08:31:19 AM PDT

  •  question: (0+ / 0-)

    is there a reliable count on the number that were arrested, the number of injuries and if those injuries were attended to?

    Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds. --Elie Wiesel

    by a gilas girl on Wed Oct 12, 2011 at 09:29:47 AM PDT

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