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Occupy Wall Street general assembly in Washington Square, Oct. 8 (@miss_millions/Twitpic)
The rise of Occupy Wall Street has been nothing short of meteoric. After struggling to gain notice at first, Occupy Wall Street has been one of the top media stories throughout the month of October. Online support for the movement has increased nearly tenfold, and local solidarity groups have appeared in hundreds if not thousands of communities around the world. It just five weeks, Occupy Wall Street has already shifted the national conversation on our economic woes away from deficits and spending cuts, and toward unemployment and Wall Street dominance of government.

Thrilling as it has been, this early period of sensational growth will not last forever. The time is coming, not long from now, when Occupy Wall Street will need to find new ways to strengthen its base of support and stay in the national conversation.

Please, either in the comments or through this short online form, share your Occupy Wall Street thoughts and experiences. In order to better support the movement going forward, we need to hear your thoughts now.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Interesting (23+ / 0-)

    What are you planning to do with the information?

    Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance.

    by Horace Boothroyd III on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 02:05:08 PM PDT

  •  OWS needs to be streamed 24/7/365 (13+ / 0-)

    with narratives and archives from each node, and given a channel of edited materials available on the web and via satellite. it is its own (ows) subculture and needs to inject itself didactically, into the k12 classroom, the assisted living facilities, the developing world, with the filters of "journalism" indy or otherwise with collectivized editing or even random whiparounds. If nothing else can the GA activities be such a medium/forum?

    I am off my metas! Präsidentenelf-maßschach; Warning-Some Snark Above"Nous sommes un groupuscule" (-9.50; -7.03)

    by annieli on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 02:07:14 PM PDT

  •  OWS very impressive, no doubt (7+ / 0-)

    Now that they have everyone's attention need to translate into action, while continuing to occupy.

    Ask that amount spent to bailout wallstreet be spent for the other 99%.

     I know this is "mainstream" but need to demand jobs bill be passed and consumer agency staffed and funded.

    "Mr. President, I'm not saying we wouldn't get our hair mussed." General Buck Turgidson

    by muledriver on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 02:09:20 PM PDT

  •  Who will read this feedback? Doesn't say... (10+ / 0-)

    Will this go up publicly? Is this for DK research (since it's a DK form) and/or will it go to OWS groups?

    (Please don't take this as a negative, I'm just curious what party any feedback goes to!)

  •  On a ferry on my way to Occupy Seattle now (21+ / 0-)

    At least 100 arrests in Occupy Chicago protest

    CNN says 130 but I'm not linking to sucky CNN

    Gasoline made from the tar sands gives a Toyota Prius the same impact on climate as a Hummer using gasoline made from oil. ~ Al Gore

    by Lefty Coaster on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 02:12:06 PM PDT

    •  Stay respectable, rational, and smart, (3+ / 0-)

      and you'll go far.  Help the American people who need it and you'll be happy.  Everything doesn't have to be perfect, but it does have to be honest and respectable.  Don't ever get involved in ANYTHING even remotely shady or illegal.   There will be people out there just waiting to destroy you if you're involved in politics.  Don't let them.

  •  Done. Hope you use the information for the (7+ / 0-)

    greater good :)

  •  As I filled out the survey...I thought, this (19+ / 0-)

    should be a comment...I just need to find the right diary to drop it in...looks like this is the one...

    What do you most like, or dislike, about Occupy Wall Street so far?

    Like; A cause without a leader, with the intention of leading the leaders. Coverage by Daily Kos diarists.

    Dislike; The media's poor and misleading coverage. The "pundits" feigned ignorance on the purpose of OWS.

    What do you hope Occupy Wall Street will accomplish?

    "...occupiers want the country to change its moral focus."~ George Lakoff

    The end of Wall Street's destruction of our's and the world's economies. Regulate Wall Street and large corporations to protect the interest of people. To shine a light on the politicians who allowed this to happen.

    We are not broke, we are being robbed.

    by Glen The Plumber on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 02:13:07 PM PDT

    •  The People's Media is the solution to that (10+ / 0-)

      problem and this is the best time to start building those channels. When we learn to communicate through our own trusted channels the corporate media will be defanged.

      Poverty = politics.

      by Renee on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 02:20:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  OWS already successful (6+ / 0-)

      Remember, before OWS got started, the ONLY conversation in Congress was about how much to reduce Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security.

      The dialog was no longer about whether, just about how much bloodletting was going to happen. The narrative was repeated so often, that it just became fact - even Obama said it - "we have to reform entitlement programs."

      Then, after OWS, we haven't seen or heard much of that anymore. The conversation was changed and OWS is what did it.

      And just as the Teabag weirdos co-opted a wing of the republican Party, and sent in a bunch of their zealots enact their freakish agenda, we can do the same thing: elect OWS-supporting Democrats who will represent the 99 percent.

      Every day's another chance to stick it to the man. - dls

      by The Raven on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 03:22:37 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Occupy Santa Rosa. (27+ / 0-)

    This is my favorite picture from last Saturday.
    PA150029

    I have been involved with #OccupySR since last Saturday, Oct. 15.  Our city with a population of 167,000 residents had the 6th largest turnout in the nation at 3,000 marchers.  Yesterday we had a much smaller spontaneous gathering of 500 people.  It's been an upbeat experience with a friendly city administration and an almost invisible police force.  I stop by occasionally to drop off supplies.  

  •  Ultimately, the greivances aired by OWS (16+ / 0-)

    first statement cannot be addressed in a single cycle. People looking for a short term fix will become disappointed and disenchanted, so fall off is baked into the cake.

    Consider that even as they rail against how awful it is, no one in DC has presented any serious proposals for addressing the existential threat Citizen's United presents to true democracy.

    For OWS's greivances to be addressed would require a huge and wholesale recalibration of the corrupt system.

    Soon people who wish to fix the system from within will peel off to do just that. They will try to co-opt OWS to that end as well, and that may get ugly. There are people inside it that consider the system hopelessly corrupt and don't have an interest in working for the lesser of two evils. They see the movement as a rebellion against that shell game.

    Those are my thoughts.

    At this point, far more people have now been arrested for protesting Wall Street's mortgage fraud crimes than have been for committing and presiding over them.

    by Scott Wooledge on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 02:15:42 PM PDT

    •  How do you fix the system (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Glen The Plumber, Orinoco

      except from within?

      •  It's like the quandary of bargaining (5+ / 0-)

        with terrorists. You may get some of what you want, chances are good, so will the terrorists.

        At this point, far more people have now been arrested for protesting Wall Street's mortgage fraud crimes than have been for committing and presiding over them.

        by Scott Wooledge on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 02:22:44 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The problem here (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          AoT

          is that from a status quo standpoint, OWS is the terrorist and I fear that the approach will be not to negotiate with terrorists.

          •  Then the establishment loses. (6+ / 0-)

            The non-violent theory of power is that all power is social, it comes from the people. The people give and the people can take away.

            Truly the destruction of the earth only results from the destitution of its inhabitants, and its inhabitants become destitute only when rulers concern themselves with amassing wealth. Caliph Ali, 7th century

            by SadieB on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 02:45:00 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  the Government derives it's power (7+ / 0-)

            from the consent of the people.

            This theory of "consent" is historically contrasted to the divine right of kings and has often been invoked against the legitimacy of colonialism. Article 21 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights states that "The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government."
            This is why dictators fall, that they no longer have the consent of the people becomes self-evident in lands like Egypt and Libya.

            Most Americans aren't ready to declare the USA a broken Democracy. Not in a real sense that would force--rather than plead nicely--for change.

            But that was the original clarion call behind OWS, and the reason to call for an occupation. Egypt was the inspiration for OWS.

            At this point, far more people have now been arrested for protesting Wall Street's mortgage fraud crimes than have been for committing and presiding over them.

            by Scott Wooledge on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 03:04:44 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Even Machiavelli knew this. (6+ / 0-)

              It's a very old idea!

              No matter how smart, how charismatic, how ruthless any leader or group of leaders is, they are still human, they still only have two arms and two legs. The only reason they can do the things they do is because other people help them.

              Why do people help them? Inertia usually, habit, though sometimes also for reasons of fear or greed.

              But when rulers mess up too badly, the system breaks down. People stop cooperating. And the "power" of the rulers evaporates. Poof.

              Truly the destruction of the earth only results from the destitution of its inhabitants, and its inhabitants become destitute only when rulers concern themselves with amassing wealth. Caliph Ali, 7th century

              by SadieB on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 03:27:26 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  One thing that is different for OWS (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                katiec, quill

                In some ways it is as radical as the radical ideas behind the far right. There are socialists, communists, anarchists and others leading the charge at Zuccotti.

                But the right wing will elevate their radicals to heroes, like Rand Paul and Bachmann and Palin and Perry.

                While the left wing will participate in the same mocking and tearing down of the left wing radicals that built this movement from scratch. Their ideas will be invalidated because there is no room for them in the status quo.

                Come election time the people who do not go along to get along will be destroyed by both Dems and GOP.

                At this point, far more people have now been arrested for protesting Wall Street's mortgage fraud crimes than have been for committing and presiding over them.

                by Scott Wooledge on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 03:35:26 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

        •  So exactly what's happening now (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Clarknt67

          Is this suppose to be hopeful or are you just saying nothing will change?

          There revolution will not be televised. But it will be blogged, a lot. Probably more so than is necessary.

          by AoT on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 02:48:08 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Things have changed. (6+ / 0-)

            The national conversation has changed from budget deficits and the high cost of union employees and Social Security cuts.

            Now, will anything change in the system? Guess we'll see when the Super Congress plays out if OWS has made austerity measures more politically toxic than they were a few months ago.

            The Bush tax cuts will be coming up again soon. We'll see if Obama and the Dems can capitalize on the populist call to tax the rich.

            At this point, far more people have now been arrested for protesting Wall Street's mortgage fraud crimes than have been for committing and presiding over them.

            by Scott Wooledge on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 03:11:35 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  #OWS is changing the conversation (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Clarknt67, ms badger, SadieB

              but the system is still not being changed.  The system is corrupt.  Some incremental changes are good, but until the entire system is changed it will continue to be one step forward and two steps back.  I think that these very smart folks at #OWS recognize that and that is why they are keeping themselves out of our current toxic political system.

              This is more than just trying to recoup some of what we have lost.  It is about changing our political system to reflect the human values that #OWS espouses.  From what I have seen via Live Stream, #OWS is inclusive, egalitarian, and altruistic, among other things.  So looking at values in #OWS, it is really about changing our own values system in this country and in the world and molding our political system after those values.

              The United States is not just losing its capacity to do great things. It's losing its soul.--Bob Herbert. gulfgal98's corollary- We are fighting back to save our soul. Thank you, #OWS for empowering us all.

              by gulfgal98 on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 03:45:49 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  It would take 40 years of elections and (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                SadieB

                wrangling to get done what has already happened.  OWS has not just changed the conversation, it is the conversation.
                Americans are using Democracy in a new way in the Occupy Protests.  It's a new American Experiment.  The police took away their loudspeakers, so the People found a way around it and now they are more clear than ever.  The People's Mic!
                The People have found a way to come to consensus.  Everyone gets to say what they want to say, in turn.  Everyone gets heard.  Decisions are made by a majority of the General Assembly.  Now, we just need to figure out how to use the General Assembly on a much larger scale.

                Come to the Dark Side, we have cookies

                by Evolutionary on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 09:14:57 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

      •  You don't (6+ / 0-)

        you knock it down, push it into a scrap heap, and replace it with a new system. It's called revolution, and my hope for OWC is that our next revolution be a peaceful one.

        The "1%" are criminals, who have by theft, fraud, bribery and corruption stolen the means for our economy to work in the common interest.

        Ideally, we get brave people who are willing to face powerful criminals, take their ill gotten gains for the common good, and put them in jail where they can no longer harm us. Less than ideal, their heads are chopped off, their mansions burned to the ground, and their wealth confiscated by a small coterie who will soon become just as corrupt.

        "The problems of incompetent, corrupt, corporatist government are incompetence, corruption and corporatism, not government." Jerome a Paris

        by Orinoco on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 02:35:40 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  This all sounds well and good (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Orinoco

          however, the only way I can see a change is made other than working through the system (even a constitutional change is done through the system) is by military force.

          I am 99.999999% there will be no Egyptian type change in this country where the military sides with protesters and brings down the government and I hope and pray that is not the goal of this movement.   In fact, this is one of the things that scares me about this movement is its unwillingness to openly state its principals and goals.

          •  what do you think of the idea (8+ / 0-)

            of mass divestiture from banks and a general strike?

            think that might get the attention of a few folks? After all, we ARE the ones who actually make this country run.

            We'd need a lot more buy-in than we have now, of course. But I think you could stand to expand your thinking. There are ways to make this work. We have to be together on it and we have to be determined.

            I've become re-radicalized. Thanks a lot you bunch of oligarchical fascist sons-of-bitches. But once again, I have no choice. Bring it the fuck on.

            by mdmslle on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 02:48:12 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  What do you believe (0+ / 0-)

              the consequences of a general strike and mass divestitures from the banks would be?

              If the right were in control of our congress and the White House it could mean new laws that are actually contrary to what you were trying to achieve.

              •  A general strike is aready illegal (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Evolutionary

                What good are laws when you have the people on your side?  Not that I think it's likely for the GOP to get a real majority this election.

                There revolution will not be televised. But it will be blogged, a lot. Probably more so than is necessary.

                by AoT on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 03:21:21 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  The Right is in control of our Congress and (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Clarknt67

                White House. Which is exactly why it must be done.

                Truly the destruction of the earth only results from the destitution of its inhabitants, and its inhabitants become destitute only when rulers concern themselves with amassing wealth. Caliph Ali, 7th century

                by SadieB on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 03:30:13 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Well, that's the question isn't it? (7+ / 0-)

                It takes courage, dear. We are after all talking about changing some deep systemic flaws that threaten our democracy.

                It's the same courage required by union workers like Verizon when they decided to strike in the middle of a recession. Or anytime frankly. It's a staring match. Sometimes the powerful need to be reminded who actually makes them the money they enjoy.

                No different.

                And I'm not sure where you came up with the idea of a GOP run government. Im sure I never suggested not supporting democrats and neither have most here. But our party has succumbed to the corruption too. It's built into the system sadly and anyone who doesn't play can't keep their job. Yes I will support democrats but I have no problem being honest about our own party being comprised.

                I've become re-radicalized. Thanks a lot you bunch of oligarchical fascist sons-of-bitches. But once again, I have no choice. Bring it the fuck on.

                by mdmslle on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 03:39:37 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I've spent a lot of time talking to my (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Orinoco, petral

                  local OWS and I hear consistently that both parties are to blame and it is not worth voting for either party.

                  I've read comments about legislatures not mattering because the movement is going to make them obsolete.  While the movement may be one thing to you, it means something else to others.    This is my problem with the lack of a clear set of guiding principals.

                  If the movement truly doesn't believe that the 99% won't be far better off going out in strength to vote in the 2012 elections for keeping control of the federal government out of the hands of Republicans, then I think they are missing a opportunity to really improve the lot of the 99% in the near term.

                  •  Write a manifesto (5+ / 0-)

                    A manifesto is not a list of demands - it is an expression of intentions and goals. For example we need to see less inequality in financial rewards. This is measurable. We need to see better health care. This is measurable. We need to see better education. This is also measurable.

                    OWS does not need to put up leaders - there are plenty there already. Some are pretty damn cool. What they need is a kick in the ass when they get it wrong, not just at election time. We need better media and livestreaming and people posting their own videos and photographs supplies that.

                    Media also needs a kick in the pants. When Rush lies he needs to get called on it. But it is no good just calling him names - we need to do it with deep respect by simply supplying facts. The media has lost respect fo facts. If they don't have the facts they should not be called news. Maybe pass some media laws about content that carries the name "news". The facts need to be respected.

                    These are not party issues. These are issues of process and respect.

                  •  I'm glad you've been listening. Now if the Dems (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Clarknt67

                    in DC would also start listening, they would have absolutely  nothing to fear in 2012.

                    It's really not that hard.

                    Truly the destruction of the earth only results from the destitution of its inhabitants, and its inhabitants become destitute only when rulers concern themselves with amassing wealth. Caliph Ali, 7th century

                    by SadieB on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 04:34:44 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                •  This is what I meant when I said (5+ / 0-)

                  Most Americans do not feel Democracy is broken enough to perform the actions that will result in forcing change.

                  Like a general strike.

                  Working the ballot box is an excellent action but also, business as usual.

                  We want change, but not as much as that Chinese guy in front of the tank.

                  I am impressed with the numbers of Americans who have risked and endured arrest to make this stand.

                  At this point, far more people have now been arrested for protesting Wall Street's mortgage fraud crimes than have been for committing and presiding over them.

                  by Scott Wooledge on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 04:02:52 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  This Occupy Protester will be voting. (0+ / 0-)

                    Getting a Republican President would be worse for everyone.  I hope that when Obama wins the election, that he becomes the Obama I cheered and voted for again.  He seems to be heading that way.
                    I hope it doesn't come to Pitchforks, but I would be ready to bust out my own pitchfork if the need arises.
                    Obama should come to a General Assembly, and tell them he is with them, or at least address the OWS protests and point to them as to what they are - the PEOPLE crying out!
                    If the President is humble enough to come and speak to the People, the 99%, he will gain much respect.
                    But, that means he needs to come to a General Assembly.  I am positive he would be allowed to speak, if he waits his turn.  Imagine Obama's words using the People's Mic.  OWS doesn't need to be Democratic to listen to and have a conversation with the Country's President.

                    Come to the Dark Side, we have cookies

                    by Evolutionary on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 09:25:33 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

            •  Yep. We the People have the Power, if we choose. (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              SadieB, mdmslle, joanneleon
            •  You know about this, right? (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              mdmslle

              Truly the destruction of the earth only results from the destitution of its inhabitants, and its inhabitants become destitute only when rulers concern themselves with amassing wealth. Caliph Ali, 7th century

              by SadieB on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 03:29:08 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  alas, your lack of vision is your fault, not ours (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            SadieB, timewarp, Orinoco
            the only way I can see a change is made other than working through the system (even a constitutional change is done through the system) is by military force

            I'm truly sorry you see things only in this binary way.

            •  yes, I guess I lack vision (0+ / 0-)

              please enlighten me with how you completely change our form of government peacefully without working through the current system.

              •  Is this the plan? (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Orinoco
                completely change our form of government

                Is that the goal of OWS?

                If by "completely change" you mean "reduce the influence of lobbyists and corporations," then I think we're in approximate agreement.

                Every day's another chance to stick it to the man. - dls

                by The Raven on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 03:26:28 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  In talking to most of the protestors (0+ / 0-)

                  at my local OWS then yes I sense that is one of the goals.

                  Of course, since the movement won't define its goals or even some basic core beliefs it is really hard to know definitely anything about this movement.

                •  From out here, it's crystal clear. (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  SadieB, Evolutionary

                  It is a protest against the fact that most of the nation's increase in wealth has gone to the richest few percent, and with that wealth has come an increase in political power and the ability to purchase politicians and write legislation.  While the rich get richer, the middle class gets pushed toward poverty and young people stagger under five-digit loads of debt.

                  What to do about it is left as an exercise to the observer.

                  "Politics should be the part-time profession of every citizen who would protect the rights and privileges of free people and who would preserve what is good and fruitful in our national heritage." -- Lucille Ball

                  by Yamaneko2 on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 07:42:16 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  It is not anyone's job to enlighten (6+ / 0-)

                you or anyone else.  If you want enlightenment, you could start by setting all your assumptions aside, opening your mind, cultivating a real interest in the thoughts and experiences of others, and then testing each assumption as it comes up individually in light of new information and ideas that you may encounter.  

                Also, learn to adventure.

                •  I know you don't mean it this way (0+ / 0-)

                  but it sounds an awful lot to me like the Pizza Man's, "don't blame Wall Street if you are unemployed, blame yourself".

                  •  That is probably because (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    r2did2, smileycreek, SadieB

                    you read my comment without really reading it.

                    •  No, not really (0+ / 0-)

                      You have absolutely no idea how enlightened I am or how much thought I've put into this.

                      I have been involved in thinking about this stuff and participating in our democracy for almost all of my adult life (over 30 years).  I've studied political science and philosophy in college and I've had more discussions on this stuff over beers with friends and fellow thinkers than I can even recall.

                      I was called out on the following statement

                      the only way I can see a change is made other than working through the system (even a constitutional change is done through the system) is by military force

                      and told that I could only see things in a binary way.  When asking about other ways, I don't get any answers except for not being enlightened.

                      I really feel this was a condescending, non-response.

                      •  Binary thinking (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Clarknt67

                        is based on the premise that there is A right answer is based on the premise that there is always A right answer and A wrong one. Or way. Your binary thinking is scattered throughout these comment threads in ideas that most people are too dumb or ignorant to figure things out for themselves, and that experts should be found to figure things out for the dumb and ignorant masses, just to name two examples.

                        Regarding pensions, if you had read the article carefully, you would see that the truth is more nuanced than you have have said.  Yes, some did voluntarily give up pensions in favor of 401Ks, but also there were much bigger efforts to eliminate them than just giving people a choice.  Because most people who lost them didn't have a choice.

                        And the idea that people failed to insist on a pension rather than a 401K when they got hired is so absurd that I can't even think of where to begin,  But just for starters, now many individuals, not in the 1%, are in a position to negotiate anything in terms of wages or benefits when they get hired?  

              •  Here's a good place to start (0+ / 0-)

                Truly the destruction of the earth only results from the destitution of its inhabitants, and its inhabitants become destitute only when rulers concern themselves with amassing wealth. Caliph Ali, 7th century

                by SadieB on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 03:31:05 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  I'll repeat it again: (4+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                timewarp, SadieB, Clarknt67, Evolutionary

                We use the power of the streets to force change onto both parties, whether they like it or not.

                Can you hear me now?

          •  We have authorized ourselves in the Declaration (5+ / 0-)
            But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

            to throw off that which oppresses us, so it would be within the system. The corporatized government IS the oppressor, approaching despot status.
            Unfortunate that the new Guard we're to provide is so elusive.

            #OccupyWallStreet ~ Close the ca$ino that
            CONTINUES to gamble away our future!
            #OccupyMelbFL

            by OleHippieChick on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 03:53:53 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  You need principles and goals? (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            timewarp, SadieB, Clarknt67, Evolutionary
            When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for 99% of the people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with the 1%, and to assume the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

            We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

            Occupy Wall Street is withdrawing its consent. The goal is to institute new government, laying its foundations on such principles and organizing its powers in such form as shall seem most likely to effect our Safety and Happiness.

            "The problems of incompetent, corrupt, corporatist government are incompetence, corruption and corporatism, not government." Jerome a Paris

            by Orinoco on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 05:50:19 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  The system was screwed long before (5+ / 0-)

      Citizens United.

      Just sayin.

      Truly the destruction of the earth only results from the destitution of its inhabitants, and its inhabitants become destitute only when rulers concern themselves with amassing wealth. Caliph Ali, 7th century

      by SadieB on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 02:43:07 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I agree. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        OleHippieChick

        But my point being Citizen's United rose to the level of being condemned in a State of the Union speech. Which was terrific theater for the masses.

        And yet no proposals to address it have been forthcoming.

        Such a proposal would present a real threat to the 1% if it could get off the ground. Fortunately, for them, it won't.

        Why?

        At this point, far more people have now been arrested for protesting Wall Street's mortgage fraud crimes than have been for committing and presiding over them.

        by Scott Wooledge on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 02:53:39 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  One month (5+ / 0-)

          It's been one month since this started.

        •  As distastfule as it is, we may just have to live (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Clarknt67

          with the decision for a long time. As long as the current, relatively young (by SCOTUS standards) justices that produced this ruling are on the court, the ruling won't be overturned by mere legislation. Additionally, there's no way that a constitutional amendment that would overturn the Citizens United decision can be crafted and passed any time in the foreseeable future. It would never make it out of the senate for one thing.  And if it did, there's still the very long and drawn out process of trying to get enough states to ratify it.  

          •  I agree. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            goobop

            But the sonner a multi-decade fight begins, the sooner it can be completed. Where are the proposals for undoing Citizen's United? Who is writing them? Who is championing them?

            They wrote the PATRIOT Act in a week. DC can move quick when it's moved to!

            At this point, far more people have now been arrested for protesting Wall Street's mortgage fraud crimes than have been for committing and presiding over them.

            by Scott Wooledge on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 04:18:53 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  That PATRIOT crap was ready WAAAAY before. WAY. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Clarknt67

              #OccupyWallStreet ~ Close the ca$ino that
              CONTINUES to gamble away our future!
              #OccupyMelbFL

              by OleHippieChick on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 04:27:32 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  the PATRIOT Act was made of leftovers from Clinton (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Clarknt67

                administrations own draconian "anti-terrorism bills".  The Dems back then were arguing that these bills were needed for national security reasons, and the Repugs in Congress objected on civil liberties grounds. A number of provisions were dropped (leading Clinton to complain that his terrorism bill was "watered down"). A few years later, when Dubya wanted an anti-terrorism bill in a hurry, he dusted off all the old provisions that had been cut from Clinton's bill and reintroduced them as the PATRIOT Act--and now it was the Repugs who wanted them on national security grounds and the Dems who opposed them on civil liberties grounds.  And still later, when Obama renewed the PATRIOT Act, three times, nobody even pretended anymore to object on civil liberties grounds.

          •  I think OWS is, in itself, a checkmate to Citizens (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Clarknt67, timewarp, Evolutionary

            United.

            Politicians have for too long gotten away with doing the bidding of the 1% after winning office with the votes of the 99%. But OWS means no more. They have to take sides.

            They can have the money of the 1% or the votes of the 99%, not both.

            Truly the destruction of the earth only results from the destitution of its inhabitants, and its inhabitants become destitute only when rulers concern themselves with amassing wealth. Caliph Ali, 7th century

            by SadieB on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 04:40:26 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  I disagree with the possibility of (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      gulfgal98, ms badger

      achieving what we hope for, but otherwise agree with your assessment.

      There revolution will not be televised. But it will be blogged, a lot. Probably more so than is necessary.

      by AoT on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 02:47:07 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think the mountain is very high (0+ / 0-)

        for a substantial addressing of the grievances aired in their statement.

        It would require major campaign finance reform, and the majority of Congress to vote themselves out of office.

        At this point, far more people have now been arrested for protesting Wall Street's mortgage fraud crimes than have been for committing and presiding over them.

        by Scott Wooledge on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 02:56:18 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  IMHO, what you are doing at #OWS (5+ / 0-)

        is trying to change our values system in this country.  Everything else flows from that and I heartily welcome it.

        As per my post above, based upon my observance of #OWS on Live Stream, those values are inclusion of everyone, egalitarianism, and altruism.  If we can translate those values into our political system, we will be a much better country and people for it.

        In short, it is about respecting the value of each human being and the land that supports us and working together toward our common good.  

        The United States is not just losing its capacity to do great things. It's losing its soul.--Bob Herbert. gulfgal98's corollary- We are fighting back to save our soul. Thank you, #OWS for empowering us all.

        by gulfgal98 on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 03:52:42 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Agreed. I rather view OWS as a massive (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          gulfgal98, SadieB, Evolutionary, boadicea

          public education campaign. And their work has just started if they will ever wean America away from its love of Reagonomics and belief in flawed trickledown. That propaganda campaign has been going on for 30 years. It can't be undone in a month.

          At this point, far more people have now been arrested for protesting Wall Street's mortgage fraud crimes than have been for committing and presiding over them.

          by Scott Wooledge on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 04:24:37 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Where do we go from here? (5+ / 0-)

    Now that the movement has gotten the nation's attention, much of that attention is now focused on "the message".

    Well, from day one- the message was clear- #OWS is frustrated at the way this country has been handed over to the rich 1%.

    I think it is pretty obvious that they want to see Wall Street "pay" by enforcing regulations, get rid of tax loopholes and remove the widening gap between the rich and the not so rich by giving workers their proper pay and benefits.

    By occupying- the movement has succeeded in starting the dialogue.

    It is now up to our 'lawmakers' to fix these problems'.  

    And when the basis for these problems go away- then the occupyers will go away.

    Growing old is inevitable...Growing up is purely optional

    by grannycarol on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 02:20:18 PM PDT

  •  Rises are not "meteoric." (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    petral

    Crashes and downfalls are meteoric, in that they imitate what a meteor does.

    Linking to a news article is journalism in the same sense that putting a Big Mac on a paper plate is cooking.

    by Caj on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 02:21:07 PM PDT

    •  would they be (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      AoT, Caj

      "rocketing" then?

    •  Google would disagree. (0+ / 0-)

      2,700,000 hits for "meteoric rise"

      •  217,000,000 hits for 1+1=3 (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        timewarp, According to Fish

        ...and 73,000,000 hits for "evolution is false."

        Counting the number hits for a phrase seems like a meaningless way to determine if it is correct.

        Linking to a news article is journalism in the same sense that putting a Big Mac on a paper plate is cooking.

        by Caj on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 03:05:22 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Don't you get it (0+ / 0-)

          that is the new true democracy of OWS in action.

          If the consensus is 1+1 = 3, then 1 + 1 = 3.

        •  They're called "idioms" (0+ / 0-)

          Strings of words that really don't make sense. I have noted the contradiction of "meteoric rise," but it is a common cliche.

          At this point, far more people have now been arrested for protesting Wall Street's mortgage fraud crimes than have been for committing and presiding over them.

          by Scott Wooledge on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 05:29:50 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Speaking linguistically, (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          boadicea

          jpmassar has a point - frequency of use is indicative of whether or not a phrase is widely accepted.  Unlike French and German, whose native countries both have formal institutions that attempt (and fail) to govern the use of the language, English has no authoritative institution that attempts to direct the evolution of the language - the scions of linguistics such as the Oxford English Dictionary are instead lagging indicators, simply recording changing language.  So, if "meteoric rise" is commonly used now, and continues to be commonly used, it will become widely accepted, even if at one time it was considered a misuse.  English is fascinating that way, to me - most other countries try to govern their national language, and inevitably fail, language is - ironically, given your choice of google phrases - evolutionary, and tends to disregard the wish of of traditionalist academics.  

          Also, I suspect a strong majority of those "evolution is false" results, once you get past the first few pages, are science-supporting sites describing opponents of evolution who, in fact, allege that "evolution is false."  Regardless, all that the google test does is demonstrate that the words "evolution is false" are, when used in that order, probably considered acceptable English usage by a large number of people.

          Sorry, I'm a linguistics geek :).

          "What Washington needs is adult supervision" - Barack Obama

          by auron renouille on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 06:03:21 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  It seems like OWS doesn't want anything to do (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    According to Fish

    with Democratic party activists. The article here says, and I agree, that OWS needs to keep growing to achieve anything...

    but the message seems to be "Dems are as bad as Republicans".  I'm not going to march for that, even though we share a ton of agreement.

    OWS needs to find a bridge if it wants the skeptics

    •  I think that there's room (5+ / 0-)

      for an issues based political group.

      I would like to see OWS begin to advocate very specific policies, such as a constitutionmjal amendment prohibiting corporate personhood.

      and, yes, OWS has to be in it for the long haul. The change must come from without and within the system and it will take multiple election cycles.

      •  I agree, stick to issues. (5+ / 0-)

        I think OWS best can be summed up as opposing corporate America's outsized influence in politics.

        It becomes very problematic to align themselves with specific politicians. Almost all of them take lots of corporate dollars and have close relationships with corporate lobbyists.

        This will be the case until the system is changed via campaign finance reform.

        At this point, far more people have now been arrested for protesting Wall Street's mortgage fraud crimes than have been for committing and presiding over them.

        by Scott Wooledge on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 02:40:13 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  That will come (4+ / 0-)

        Give them space to build their numbers.  Building coalitions is hard.

        "The real wealth of a nation consists of the contributions of its people and nature." -- Rianne Eisler

        by noofsh on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 02:41:42 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It should start soon (0+ / 0-)

          Some people join a movement because they are mad, but others join because they see something specific they can help accomplish.  OWS needs both in order to "build their numbers."  And that means specific goals.

          •  A couple of days ago (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            SadieB, Clarknt67, boadicea

            OWS went to Harlem to protest stop and frisk policies directed at young black men.  Many were arrested.  I think this is an excellent kind of strategy because it focuses on a real problem which is local and also points out the disparity between the treatment privileged and under-privileged experience daily in this city.  It builds common cause.  And because it is local, it something which can actually change.  Lots of small actions like this which express solidarity can help build and sustain a real movement.  

      •  I don't agree. I think OWS should remain as an (8+ / 0-)

        umbrella group, and allow all the various individual component groups to each take on their own issues.  I have several reasons for that:

        1. any specific issue we pick--ANY--will be opposed by some other faction or other in the OWS movement (with the possible exception of "publicly-funded elections to remove all private money from the electoral system"--which may be the only single issue that ALL of the political spectrum would agree with).

        2. The various individual member groups know their own issues better than anyone else--so let them fight their own fight.

        3. It preserves the essential framework of the decentralized nonhierarchical horizontal model of organization, where each member is an autonomous unit, and the job of the "center" is not to dictate terms and policies, but simply to coordinate the actions of the various subgroups.

        4. It prevents the kind of bureaucracy and entrenched centers that have always plagued social-justice groups.  The central organization never gets too big, too cumbersome, or too dictatorial, because it doesn't actually DO very much of anything. All the actual work gets done by the autonomous subgroups.

        •  Excellent and also (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          SadieB, r2did2, Clarknt67

          a leaderless movement allows people to participate as they can and as they wish.  Over the years, I've seen so many "well-meaning" social-justice organizations become isolated and subject to a siege-mentality and close in on themselves and eat their own in nasty little turf wars.  I think OWS could give such groups a needed outlet and also prevent the kind of isolation which can really kill good ideas and attempts.  

    •  That's not the message (7+ / 0-)

      That's the message that political operatives want you to believe. But it is false.  OWS is inclusive but it isn't waiting on any political party to get it's message out.  I don't see any conflict in supporting OWS and the democratic party simultaneously.

      "The real wealth of a nation consists of the contributions of its people and nature." -- Rianne Eisler

      by noofsh on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 02:40:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I've seen plenty "we will not be co-opted" and (0+ / 0-)

        politicians are all corrupt language.  

        I found this in a comment elsewhere regarding the "we will not be co-opted/OWS is neither democratic not republican" chatter on the net, and I think it a good point.

        Instead of quivering in fear that one or the other party might "compromise" the movement, the movement ought to see itself as a player willing to be affiliated with the group more closely representing its views. In this case, that would be the Democratic party. Republicans have been shown (proved, repeatedly) to be willing to say whatever's necessary to be elected. Democrats --- well, they're democrats. Like herding kittens, most of them are really trying to do the nation's business. Some are better at it than others. Some are more "bought and paid for" than others. But there's no variance in the Repubs, baby. They may run on jobs, but they legislate anti-abortion, anti-union, anti-middle class, anti-poor and (especially) anti-anyone-not-like-them. Occupy Wall Street is a breakthrough happening the vast majority of Democrats will support. The movement, rightfully skeptical of anyone in office right now, should be careful nnot to throw the baby out with the bathwater by rejecting affiliation with both parties. They should use their true grass-roots power to fundamentally change the way campaigns are financed --- which most, if not all Democrats would welcome --- and which would take away the sole reason most of the reality TV party is interested in the game(show) at all.

        The movement has power. Affiliating with the Dems can provide a way to make that power count toward the realization of the movement's goals. It's important not to miss this opportunity. We've been waiting for it for a long, long time.

    •  It's not that the Dems are "as bad" (8+ / 0-)

      in general, it's that they are part of a corrupt system wherein they reinforce that system instead of actually working for its end, as they would so often have you believe.  So when people throw out the "as bad" it isn't meant in the sense of what they stand for or their platform, it's in the sense of their role in the system.  One would have thought that having a super-majority in the senate, a large majority in the house and a dem president would have put the lie to the idea that we really just need to vote for more Dems to make things OK.

      There revolution will not be televised. But it will be blogged, a lot. Probably more so than is necessary.

      by AoT on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 02:52:14 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  OWS is a wake-up call for the Democratic Party, (8+ / 0-)

      a long-needed intervention.

      All those people in the streets used to be/could be/should be Democratic voters, but the problem is that the people in the skyscrapers are the Democratic donors.

      But I truly believe some Democratic politicians will do the math and figure out they don't need the money from the 1% if they are brave enough to cast their lot with the 99%. If they stand up for the 99% the 99% will stand up for them.

      Truly the destruction of the earth only results from the destitution of its inhabitants, and its inhabitants become destitute only when rulers concern themselves with amassing wealth. Caliph Ali, 7th century

      by SadieB on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 02:55:52 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I agree money in politics is a problem, but if (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Sylv

        you don't take part, your message can get drowned out.

        If every Dem candidate gave up corporate contributions, then they'd advertise so much less, that every election would be an uphill battle.

        I agree with campaign finance reform.

        Personally I'd be in favor of a law limiting corporate contributions for as given election cycle to (# of full time employees) x ($2500) maximum or the total payroll for the corporation, whichever is lower. (this is a suggestion given the current USSC.)

        I think the OWS movement will at some point, need help from the everyday activists of the Democratic party, but there isn't a bridge that I can see right now.

        •  Well, they can't have it both ways, not anymore. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          timewarp

          OWS is a turning point. Some Dems will figure that out and some will not. C'est la vie.

          Truly the destruction of the earth only results from the destitution of its inhabitants, and its inhabitants become destitute only when rulers concern themselves with amassing wealth. Caliph Ali, 7th century

          by SadieB on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 03:16:45 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  The moment that happens (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          timewarp, Chitown Kev, Clarknt67, quill
          I think the OWS movement will at some point, need help from the everyday activists of the Democratic party, but there isn't a bridge that I can see right now.

          The moment the democratic party (either party, actually) is allowed into the OWS movement will spell the moment it no longer exists for the purpose it began in the first place.

          I dearly hope this doesn't happen.  They're doing our work right now.  We need to stay out of their way other than to donate to them and support them.  Perhaps that's what you meant by needing "help from everyday activists in the Democratic party".  Hope so.

          - If you don't like gay marriage, blame straight people. They're the ones who keep having gay babies.

          by r2did2 on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 03:20:42 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  There is a difference between Democratic party (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            auron renouille

            activists..the people that have the kind of time to it takes to knock on doors, and generally do the leg and phone work for Dems, than the Dem hierarchy establishment that get cash from corporations and unions.

            There is a limit to the quantity of the "outside the party" progressive activists that can take the time out of their day/week.

            If you want growth without this?  Well.  We'll see.

            •  It won't matter (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              timewarp, quill

              If so-called democratic activists get involved with the OWS, it will forever change what this movement is about.  Even if it isn't true...it will appear to be that the OWS movement is just the flip side of the Teaparty movement that became so ingrained within the republican party.  

              Remember, appearances are everything.  I just hope this doesn't happen.

              - If you don't like gay marriage, blame straight people. They're the ones who keep having gay babies.

              by r2did2 on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 03:34:02 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  We've been taking part (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          SadieB
          you don't take part, your message can get drowned out

          and our message has been entirely drowned out for over 40 years...thus, OWS. More power to them!

          "It depends what the meaning of 'is', is"
          Platform of the "New" Neoliberal Democratic Party
          Speaking out of one side of their mouth for the little guy, their nominal constituency, and the other for the plutocracy, their real constituency.

          by Sanctimonious on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 07:33:52 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Actually..... (0+ / 0-)

        There was a Repub Pres. candidate in the current crop who refused Corporate Donations -- sadly can't remember his name -- and he got NO support.

        And oh, he sounded like a progressive Dem to me.

    •  The Democratic Party (0+ / 0-)

      needs to find a bridge if they wish to be able to wield the power of this movement.

      Lecture them for a fucking change.

  •  Barney Frank on Rachel was right. (6+ / 0-)

    This energy will be wasted unless we can use it to affect legislation.

    One of the first things we have to do is make people understand who voted to put us in the position we're in today, and who tried to avoid it.

    •  When contrasting OWS (and the left, generally) (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      timewarp, AoT

      with the might of the NRA, does Frank ever bring up the topic of how much money the NRA sinks into lobbyists and elections? Or does he treat them as only a grassroots operation?

      At this point, far more people have now been arrested for protesting Wall Street's mortgage fraud crimes than have been for committing and presiding over them.

      by Scott Wooledge on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 02:28:43 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Barney Frank (9+ / 0-)

      is being deliberately obtuse and seems to be doing his best to deflect attention away from his own complicity vis a vis the lack of effective banking regulation/reform.  

      But since taking over as chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, he's been nothing but pragmatic, which hasn't come as much of a surprise to those in the finance world. Floyd Stoner, a longtime lobbyist with the American Bankers Association, says, "We had worked closely with Chairman Frank when he was the ranking member and his track record there was as a legislator who worked well across the aisle." As for Frank's reputation as a combative liberal, Stoner says that Frank is "a liberal who understands markets."

      and

      Take the credit card legislation he cosponsored that is currently pending in the House, the so-called Credit Card Holders' Bill of Rights. Credit cards are among the most profitable segments of the banking industry, in part because the issuers are able to essentially change the terms of the contracts whenever they choose. Make your car payment late one month, for example, and you could see all your credit cards jacked up to 36 percent interest. These sorts of abuses are rampant in the industry, yet the House bill offers only modest solutions, such as requiring credit card issuers to send out bills at least 25 days before they're due, rather than 14, or banning companies from changing the interest rate retroactively, as well as more disclosure rules for the already complex credit card contracts.

      http://motherjones.com/...

      The point is that it is time for the Dems to step up and begin to offer real solutions to the grievances raised by OWS,  To hear them, they sound as if they believe they have been betrayed by us, rather than the other way around!

    •  hah--the Dems might not like how this turns out: (6+ / 0-)
      One of the first things we have to do is make people understand who voted to put us in the position we're in today, and who tried to avoid it.

      especially when people realize who got most of Wall Street's money for the past three elections . . .

      Careful what you wish for . . .

    •  Frank is for the 1% (6+ / 0-)

      This is a moment of truth. "By their fruits ye shall know them."

      Truly the destruction of the earth only results from the destitution of its inhabitants, and its inhabitants become destitute only when rulers concern themselves with amassing wealth. Caliph Ali, 7th century

      by SadieB on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 02:56:48 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Besides, people DO understand who (4+ / 0-)

      put us in the position we are in today, which is why they are unhappy with Brand Democrat.

      Truly the destruction of the earth only results from the destitution of its inhabitants, and its inhabitants become destitute only when rulers concern themselves with amassing wealth. Caliph Ali, 7th century

      by SadieB on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 02:57:35 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Agree..... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Clarknt67

      there have been diaries by someone (I really don't know who) which shows pie charts on where the American people stand and how the Repubs voted.  But the diarist doesn't include how the Dems voted.  Think they should.

      That's the ONLY way to bring pressure -- to know who is and who isn't listening.

  •  mimi2three wrote her first diary (10+ / 0-)

    about Occupy Wall Street in Chico called A Protest Virgin Occupies Wall Street, Chico: A Photodiary

    She is an awesome photographer, and coaxed this shy little guy in the bushes into holding up his sign.

    child protestor


    Republicans 2012

    Keeping Millions Out of Work
    to Put One Man Out of a Job

    by smileycreek on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 02:26:04 PM PDT

  •  I've been covering Occupy Minnesota... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    carolyn urban, karmsy, SadieB, Sylv

    ... on in Facebook photo galleries 10/10/11 and 10/21/11 plus several YouTube videos and a report that went out over the radio.

    If nothing else, I hope that OWS changes the narrative, and provides the rallying point for disaffected voters.

    "What doesn't have credibility today is the truth." -- Bill Moyers, The Daily Show 6/22/05

    by Baron Dave on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 02:27:12 PM PDT

  •  OWS must understand its role in constructing (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    timewarp, DRo, msmacgyver, Sylv, joanneleon

    and yes, deconstructing the national conversation. By its very persistence through November 2012 it will have legislative and electoral influence.

    Occupy Wall Street has already shifted the national conversation on our economic woes away from deficits and spending cuts, and toward unemployment and Wall Street dominance of government.

    I am off my metas! Präsidentenelf-maßschach; Warning-Some Snark Above"Nous sommes un groupuscule" (-9.50; -7.03)

    by annieli on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 02:29:03 PM PDT

    •  Are you suggesting that OWS (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      annieli

      develop and support candidates to primary Dems and/or GOPers ala the TP? I'm not opposed to the idea, just curious if this is one option you've considered.

      May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house. George Carlin

      by msmacgyver on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 02:53:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  no, OWS' relative autonomy should remain (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        msmacgyver, SadieB

        adaptable as support rather than tied to specific candidates it's perhaps too early for voting blocs, but in some states perhaps occupying a few state conventions will give the party pause when it considers blue dogs for example. Splitting votes only helps the corporatists

        I am off my metas! Präsidentenelf-maßschach; Warning-Some Snark Above"Nous sommes un groupuscule" (-9.50; -7.03)

        by annieli on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 04:12:13 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  agreed. the Repugs no longer set the agenda-which (6+ / 0-)

      is something that the big mighty Democratic party was unable (or unwilling) to do.

      OWS did it in 6 weeks.  The entire national political discourse has changed.  It's no longer just Repugs and Dems arguing over how much we should cut entitlements by.

      If OWS disappears tomorrow, that alone makes it all worth the effort.

  •  I'd love to see more versions of "3 card monty" (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    karmsy

    coming from various culture/demographic segments to speak to more people.

    NOW SHOWING
    Progressive Candidate Obama (now - Nov 6, 2012)
    Bipartisan Obama returns (Nov 7, 2012)

    by The Dead Man on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 02:33:30 PM PDT

  •  resurgence of direct democracy and social media (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    carolyn urban, OleHippieChick

    Here are three expressions of my thoughts about Occupy Wall Street, which I consider the most significant expression of direct democracy since Ancient Athens ...  Panel on Good Day Street Talk, taped Thurs, aired Saturday morning on Fox-NY-5, in which I argue against a conservative ideologue (and the Fox anchor) who misunderstand and attack Occupy Wall Street  (three other people on panel) ... and two blog posts:  Occupy Wall Street, Direct Democracy, and Social Media: A Thumbnail History of Media and Politics Since Ancient Athens and Obama Should Call in National Guard to Restrain NYPD in Occupy Wall Street

    "the remedy to be applied is more speech" -- Louis Brandeis

    by PaulLev on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 02:33:41 PM PDT

  •  it's time to reinvigorate the questions of network (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    carolyn urban, SadieB, OleHippieChick

    democracy: can all the GAs interact synchronously, for example.
    Political Change in the Digital Age: The Fragility and Promise of Online Organizing

    I am off my metas! Präsidentenelf-maßschach; Warning-Some Snark Above"Nous sommes un groupuscule" (-9.50; -7.03)

    by annieli on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 02:34:11 PM PDT

  •  I attended three large OWS events in NYC (12+ / 0-)

    I was at the Brooklyn Bridge, Foley Square and Times Square.  I am impressed with what I am seeing.  The energy is there.  The organizational structure is horizontal.  It's downright fascinating.  I think the message is right; it is focusing attention on economic values.

    What can be done to move it along?  Form alliances with communities - especially poor communities.  Reach out to the home less and bring them in.  But please don't get co-opted by the political parties.

    "The real wealth of a nation consists of the contributions of its people and nature." -- Rianne Eisler

    by noofsh on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 02:36:09 PM PDT

    •  I agree about the structure being fascinating (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jpmassar, timewarp, katiec, SadieB, Chitown Kev

      Very interesting working without apparent leaders - it's not entirely comfortable for everyone.  Some want to take over and simply give directions; some want to be led.
      Here in VT there is discussion about occupying homes that are about to be foreclosed.

      •  I love this idea! (5+ / 0-)

        And is one which could be easily implemented all over the country -- and is an issue which would definitely cross party lines.  

      •  as a longtime IWW member, I've always been (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SadieB, carolyn urban

        comfortable with the democratic consensus model. But it does have one glaring difficulty--it works too slowly when quick on-the-spot snap decisions are needed. We Wobblies got around that difficulty by simply empowering any of our members to make whatever snap decisions were needed, and we'd back them up.  We could do that because we were a small group and all our members think more or less alike, so we each trusted the others to make the right decisions in accordance with the group.  But OWS doesn't have that advantage--it is a wide-ranging constellation of people who normally couldn't live in the same house together without fighting.  So it will be interesting for me to see how they work this out. One solution that seems to have been adopted by some groups is to try to draw up advance plans for every possible contingency--but that is of course simply not possible.

      •  fighting/occupying foreclosures (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SadieB

        Saw this er, somewhere (Twitter?) yesterday, and bookmarked it for safekeeping, and because I love the idea:

        From Truthout. It's got some links to additional info, groups that have been doing this, which have information on how the process works. Some of it is forcing banks to treat people (current or foreclosed homeowners) as tenants, and take rent, so people can stay in their homes. And some of it is just dragging out the process for pure stubbornness :)

  •  When my mother... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LandlockedinAZ

    told me that she feels her generation has failed us.  I decided to reflect on it a wee bit.  Here are my thoughts on what is going on through a Generational Approach.

    Occupy Wall Street Goes National (and Global):  Perhaps the Root of the Problem, from a United States perspective, is the Baby Boomer Generation (Those born in the mid-1940s to the mid-1960s).

     Introduction

    The root of the problem may lie with the baby boomer generation.  A generation filled with the idea of excess is best and ignoring long-term implications.  It was a generation that benefited most from the generation before them (often called the Greatest Generation) which pushed for social progress and political reform.  They received the greatest of both worlds, capitalism and a safety net, again, thanks to the Greatest Generation.  Once they received the torch, they proceeded to reverse the progress of the Greatest Generation despite years of benefiting from it.  As a result, they have pulled the rug out from under the generations after them, Gen X or Generation Baby Busters and Generation Y or the Millennium Generation.

    The Greatest Generation Leads by Example

    The Presidents who were the product of the Greatest Generation help explain the different way of thinking.  As a generation of people who many came of age during the Great Depression, they realized although capitalism has an important role to play in the country, it should not be left to regulate itself.  The federal government played a bigger role to prevent highly questionable behavior of business and local government. (FDR, Truman, even Eisenhower to a certain extent)

    Child labor laws, food safety, election reform, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, desegregation, and minority and woman suffrage came to prominence during the time of, or the product of those born during, the Greatest Generation.  After nearly a century of hard labor placed in the hands of children since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, a shift against such practices rose at the very beginning of The Greatest Generation.  Technically, it was the parents of the Greatest Generation (The Lost Generation) that set the groundwork for what major changes their children will achieve.  Perhaps it was the care of their children’s well-being that led the parents of the Greatest Generation to begin the sway of thinking from a non-involvement federal government to a more involved federal government that would be exemplified in their children?  Or the onset of the Great Depression created more cohesion between the two generations?  Most likely it was a combination of both.  Also, may explain how both parties were able to work together better than they can now.

    The parents, as typical of transitional eras, were conflicted about role of government though, especially the role of the federal government.  For example, despite the parents and grandparents of the Greatest Generation ratifying the Fifteenth Amendment that ensures voting rights to all races, barriers were still put up to prevent minorities from voting at the state level.  This would continue until the parents of the Greatest Generation became fewer in the country and fewer numbers in government.  Voting suffrage would not get enforced until the children born during the Greatest Generation came into majority power starting in the late 1950s and solidified in the 1960s.  In addition, Brown v Board of Education effects met resistance especially in the south (because most legislators were still of the generation before The Greatest Generation) and Eisenhower fought it somewhat with mixed results.  Despite his inability to stop the pro-segregation people, Eisenhower (part of the Lost Generation of the Greatest Generation) did contribute one of the most important infrastructure measures in our history by way of the Interstate System in the later part of the 1950s, a time of almost even mix of the parents of, and those born in, the Greatest Generation furthering support of the idea that their beliefs were in a continual path to cohesion although they never became completely cohesive. Then the solidified power of the Greatest Generation got its majority hold in the 1960s.  The first President we had that was born during the Great Generation period, JFK, actively enforced the court decision to a greater extent.  LBJ, another Greatest Generationer, would continue JFK’s domestic agenda by passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965.

    The normative ideas of the Greatest Generation achieved some great things. While in power, they managed to create programs that help minorities, women, children, the poor, and education.  During their reign, this country was known as the pinnacle of technological achievement around the world.   The belief that the government can do some good work domestically was widely accepted by this generation.  They paid higher taxes, but knew it would pay in dividends for the next generation.  This belief would soon start on a decline as the number of Baby Boomers in power increase and the number of Great Generationers in power begins its downward spiral.

    The Greatest Generation Passes the Torch to the Baby Boomers; the Baby Boomers Extinguish It

    The Greatest Generation accepted the idea of supporting public schools, providing a safety net, building and the strengthening of infrastructure knowing very well it will not only benefit them but will also benefit those who come after them.   As a note: Not to say Occupy Wall Streeters do not have supporters from the baby boomer generation, but the current people in power are mostly those who were born during that generation.   The early Baby Boomer Generation grew up during the civil rights-era of the 1950s as grade schoolers and in the 1960s as teenagers; it was a time of judicial intervention and a time where the early baby boomers were not old enough to vote (Remember the voting age was not lowered to 18 until 1971).  They had no voice in the changes of the 1950s and 1960s, but they, as school children, felt the force of government and its destruction of the idea of separate but equal.  These actions may have fueled their self-interest view that led to their decreased concern for others.  It was not until 1967 when the first baby boomers were eligible to vote. So the leaders elected through most of the country were elected by those of the Greatest Generation through the 1960s and the first half on the 1970s.

    The Baby Boomers did not have to go through the Great Depression.  The start of the generation begins after the country not only recovered from the Great Depression but was going through an economic boom. They subscribed to combination of Adam Smith economics and Rational Choice Theory.  So they failed to see the point of view of the problems of unregulated capitalism.  But, ironically, benefited the most from the response to those troubled times.  They receive the greatest cash-value from Medicare and Medicaid.  Their payments from Social Security are better than the previous generation. Yet, they are working to dismantle such programs for future generations claiming they are “saving” the programs.  Interestingly though, they selfishly keep the high cash value of the programs for their generation with very little exception.  Starting with Nixon’s later years, the decline of support for the safety net, infrastructure, and public school funding begins on a downward spiral.  Deregulation begins in the mid to late seventies for such things as the airlines, banks, and consumer protection.  It gains popularity in the 1980s when the baby boomers start to gain substantial numbers of who votes and increased numbers in public office.  Ronald Reagan, despite being a child from the Greatest Generation, is the visible beginning of Baby Boomer’s cynical view of government.  It can be explained why President Reagan is the exception to typical Presidents who are part of his generation.  The time of his switch from the Democratic Party to the Republican Party signals his change of view happened in 1962 when his generation solidified their majority power in the federal government and began many of the programs already discussed.  He is an outlier whose beliefs fit better with the Baby Boomer Generation rather than the Greatest Generation.  

     Even during the years of Clinton, first Baby Boomer president, the Baby Boomer generation’s view is still prominent by passage of major welfare reforms seriously weakening the system for the poor in the 1990s.  In addition, the Defense of Marriage Act passes to prevent gay marriage recognition at the federal level.  This is another example of the Baby Boomer’s self-interested view of not wanting to deal or acknowledge people who are different than they are.  They see themselves as morally superior and think they know what is best for all others.  The truth is since they never faced really tough times, they do not know the effects of oppressive policy.  So enforcing such a policy, they are oblivious to its effect on other generations.  Baby Boomers begin to appear as the most self-interested and it will only exemplify later on as their control of public office increases at the turn of the century.

    President Bush II, a baby boomer, begins a process of tax cutting and deregulation that would greatly benefit the Baby Boomers the most.  Then turns around and pushes for further cuts in the safety net and school funding because of decreased federal money.  This act does nothing to harm Baby Boomers, at least, not to the extent it will harm Generation X.  Quality of education, which has been on a steady decline since Nixon, declines further.  Income falls for Generation X in real dollars compared to the Baby Boomers despite more Generation X’ers having obtained a higher level of education (albeit decreased quality).  Why is this? Well, the early Baby Boomers have begun to retire by this point and perhaps they began their drain on companies’ retirement plan investments (of course, this plays a bigger role later).  To compensate for this, they offer lower wages to their Generation X’er replacements.  Not that Baby Boomers have concerns over this, but it does start the spark that will develop into a mega-bombfire.  Bush II pushed and got major deregulation of banks and how they lend money especially as far as mortgages go; the ideas of balloon payments, lending money to those who really do not qualify; and the misconception of the quality of these loans sold on the market (most given AAA ratings) all came from the idea that the financial sector can regulate itself.  An idea that resonates with Baby Boomers since they, once again, cannot see the long-term effects.   It will all come crashing down in 2008.

    After the crash of 2008, two sides emerged, Wall Street vs. Main Street.  It was the too big to fail argument that won the day and allowed over 700 billion dollars in federal assistance (TARP) to rain on corporations.  A Baby Boomer president was not about to let fellow Baby Boomer-led companies collapse, although ones that did walked away with plenty of cash.  But when it came to try to keep people in their homes, the politicians were more reluctant to do anything about it.  Main Street was losing against Wall Street.

    With the onset of the recession and the extremely slow recovery, politicians have argued what would be the best solution.  Some say to raise taxes on the rich, while others say cut spending and regulation.  Generally, the support for raising taxes on the rich is popular among all current generations, but to a much lesser extent among Baby Boomers.   On the other side, the Baby Boomers make up the overwhelming majority who oppose raising taxes on the rich.  The top 1% consists of mainly middle-aged individuals, which would make them of the Baby Boomer Generation.  But since the taxes have not been raised, schools lose even more funding and the infrastructure continues to crumble.  In fact, this is now looked at as wasteful spending.  In addition, companies continue to cut benefits and avoid hiring additional people despite record profits, the assault on the social safety net is hitting a new extreme, and voting becomes more restrictive in many states.  Verizon, most oil companies, Bank of America, and many others are experiencing bigger profits than what they saw before 2008.  Yet, they are not hiring.  These “job creators” are not creating jobs solely based on them paying lower taxes.   This fuels anger on why they do not allow the Bush tax cuts to expire.  The safety net is described as a waste of money; money that benefits the lazy not the down and out.  Congress, who is overwhelmingly majority Baby Boomers, want to cut the safety net or privatize it (Social Security, welfare, medicare, and medicaid).  Of course, they would only start this after they have died out.  Most have pushed for privatization not to completely take over for many years or the current or near future collectors would continue as they are.  In other words, the Baby Boomers would still get the best of the social safety net while at the same time destroying it for Generation X and Y.  There is a reason why Baby Boomers are called the “Me” Generation.

    The “Me” Generation has decided to take their self-centered ideas and apply them to voting.  Without any proof of voter fraud (studies have shown, at best, a .0001% voter fraud rate), the current people in power have been pushing at the state level for voting laws to supposedly “protect” the legitimacy of elections.  When there is no evidence of fraud to back them up, one must look at ulterior motives they will not say.  With states requiring IDs, whether they charge or not, to vote, they effectively disenfranchise those voters most likely not to vote for the Baby Boomer interests--the poor, the uneducated,  minorities, students, Gen X and Y, etc.  They know very well if they do not do what they can to restrict younger people form voting, their own self-interest me be compromised.

    The Baby Boomers, or the “Me” Generation, have taking the ideals of the Greatest Generation (their parents) and squashed them to meet their own needs.  Even business executives from the Lost Generation and the Greatest Generation did not vehemently fight regulation (think FDR and the New Deal effects through the 40s, 50s, and the 60s) nearly to the extent the Baby Boomers did once they took over higher-up positions in the companies (think the last years of Nixon through now).  When 1967 started, the baby boomers became eligible to vote but their effects were not felt yet for a couple reasons.  First, historically, young people do not vote in as big percentages as their older counterparts.  Second, even the ones that do vote still are much fewer than those voting from the Greatest Generation.  Typically, in studies about voting, people start voting in greater numbers after they hit 25 years of age and increases more dramatically after the age of 30.  Given this, the Baby Boomers became a voting force at the earliest in 1971, but would then solidify it starting in 1976.  By 1980, almost every single Baby Boomer has reached the legal age for voting and a majority of them are 25 or older (Reminder: the Baby Boomers 1946-1964).  As their numbers became central to elections, they elected individuals who reflected their ideals and have ever since.  Unwilling to sacrifice themselves, they have asked Generation X and Y to do the sacrificing.  This has led to events that have taken the country (and world) by storm.

    Occupy Wall Street: Generation X , Y, and Z Respond

    Although there are Baby Boomers assisting or offering their support for the movement, the overwhelming majority of the Occupy movement is those in Generation X, Y and, to a lesser extent,  Z.  Generation X is more educated than previous generations, more liberal, and more heterogeneous.  Generation Y is becoming just as educated, not as liberal economically but just as liberal in social issues.  Generation Z is a generation that does not know a world without the internet and its ability to access loads of information and only a few have reached the age of legal adulthood.  But many of them who have are perhaps the most liberal of all.  They have taken part in the Occupy Wall Street movement and, in some ways, are more involved with it.

    Occupy Wall Street has spread throughout the country.  Once a movement indigenous to New York, the movement has progressed to Boston, LA, Seattle, Portland (Oregon), Dallas, Houston, DC, Indianapolis, Madison (some say this was where it actually began), Detroit, Chicago, and on and on.  Their concerns are that corporations have complete control over the government and its politicians.  I consider this half-right.  It is more of the politicians self-interest to ensure their own interest are protected be damned those who come after them.  After all, as I said many times already, the Baby Boomers do not look at long-term effects on generations that are not them.  John Boehner may cry and claim he is concerned for his
    children’s future, but it is only political theater meant to sway a generation (Gen X) that is starting to approach the numbers of Baby Boomer voters.  By 2016, Generation X will probably replace the Baby Boomers as the main voting force in the country.  It may be as late as 2020 given that the Baby Boomers are living longer than those in the Greatest Generation.

     Perhaps, this is the glimmer of hope.  Generation X, Y, or Z may return to the example set by the Greatest Generation.  They know their history; therefore, they will not want the return to the Great Depression and the Great Recession created by deregulation, blind greed, and completely self-centered self-interests (they, indeed, are not synonymous).

    Russ Feingold is a force to be reckoned with

    by HoosierLiberal on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 02:36:25 PM PDT

    •  Too broad a brush (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      carolyn urban, SNFinVA

      Reagan was a member of the "Greatest Generation" and he and his old capitalist cronies (like Alan Greenspan) started the whole "Greed is Good" mantra.  For that matter, Ayn Rand was a member of the "Greatest Generation" - much of our economic system can be directly attributed to her books and ideas.

      •  In my defense... (0+ / 0-)

        Yes, true but did they speak for the overwhelming majority of the people of that generation?  There are far more individuals who did not agree with Reagan and Ayn Rand from their generation; they were by far a minority.  That is why the term outlier was created.

        Besides, there is no perfect brush.  We can only see the trends or correlations.  I am in no way trying to say that all people of the Baby Boomer generation are of the same mind fame, but there definitely seems to be a trend.

        Just like Anthony Down's Economic Theory of Democracy claims about self-interest in rational choice theory.  He was from the Greatest Generation, but his ideas did not change the game until much later.

        Russ Feingold is a force to be reckoned with

        by HoosierLiberal on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 04:29:30 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I disagree (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Anna M

      You simply cannot lay this at the feet of Baby Boomers (like myself).

      This is a political phenomenon, not a generational one, albeit a political phenomenon that has capitalized on generational ignorance.

      If anything it is the Greatest Generation that has benefited the most from several social programs without paying much in to them (Medicare comes to mind).

      Much of the financialization of the economy was actually put in motion by members of the Greatest Generation.

      In my lifetime, Nixon kicked thing off by taking the US off the gold standard. Result? The groundwork was laid for the stagflation of the late 70's, the beginning of wage stagnation, the oil crisis of the early 70's, and record high mortgage interest rates.

      Reagan came along and we had record high unemployment, interest rates hit record highs, then he lowered tax rates but eliminated many deductions ( so, taxes for most of us went up), inflated the deficit, raised payroll taxes several times (so, Baby Boomers have been paying more of their stagnant wages into that system, AND paying more for Medicare than the Greatest generation ever did).

      http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/...

      We had the S&L crisis, the stock market crash of '87. Oh and when interest rates started to drop , we had our very first housing bubble in the 80's that went bust. No matter! Members of the Greatest Generation who had bought their homes with VA loans and/or low interest rates AND low prices were able to cash in for 10x or more what they had paid for their home. Rents never sank back down to pre-bubble levels, however, so Boomers who hadn't bought yet watched market rents triple in the space of about 10 years.

      Bush I brought is even higher payroll taxes and a languishing economy.

      Meanwhile there are many WWII generation seniors still kicking around who are drawing their SS, Medicare, and/or Medicaid benefits.

      No, this is not the fault of Baby Boomers. This is a result of Right Wing policies, and failure of Democratic backbone.

      "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." Hunter S. Thompson

      by SNFinVA on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 04:48:32 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I've been to Occupy Burlington (6+ / 0-)

    and last week 10/15 Occupy Montpelier - a great turnout - several hundred, a good rally, march and GA at the State Capital Building.  It began to rain and many people left, while about 100 of us huddled under a portico on the State Capitol steps.  We agreed to meet weekly at the same spot.
    So yesterday we had a GA - about 80 ish people there.  A discussion of our core  values and a brainstorming session to decide what work groups we needed going forward.
    This seems like the hard part is just starting.  Easy enough to make a sign and show up with a crowd.  Harder to start to tackle the nuts and bolts over how to grow the movement; how to get the word out; how to run ourselves efficiently; how to define our local purpose, and to maintain our strong solidarity with the original Occupy Wall Street national and global movement.  
    Seems I'm the point person for the Facilitators group. (Crap!)  Any tips will be appreciated.
    Here's a thought: maybe we could have some regular diaries sharing what  works and what doesn't work within our local GA's in advancing our work, networking with other groups, establishing community outreach, and affirming solidarity with National OWS.

  •  after having lived my entire life (7+ / 0-)

    (55+ years) in a country that seems to worship at the altar of money and greed, it's refreshing to finally see so many people finally waking up to what's going on.

  •  It seems the youth are leading this one (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    timewarp, DRo, carolyn urban, Sylv, katiec

    as well they should be - it's primarily their future on the line.  Hopefully the "Lost Decade" generation will lead us out of the consumerist greed society we've become and re-invent the future.   I commend and support them and wish them all the best in their struggles against "The Establishment".

  •  OWS is the most important thing going on (9+ / 0-)

    in the country right now.  That's all I got.

  •  Occupy Augusta ME meets Tea Party Gov (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sylv, Lorikeet

    At his food drive event.
    http://bangordailynews.com/...

    "It does not require many words to speak the truth."----Chief Joseph Nez Perce

    by tuckerm on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 02:42:54 PM PDT

  •  My thoughts: (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    timewarp, Sylv, joanneleon

    They're successful because of their initial approach in forming and spreading the occupations.

    They must remain nonpartisan.

    Specific results can and will come later.  Maybe by spring, but probably no sooner than that with continued emphasis on the need for real, substantive change.

    Even though the problems now are dire and directly affect millions of people, the changes that are to come must be focused on the long term.

    Much as with the beginning of Dean's message about the Democratic Party and the initiation of Dkos as a continuation of that message, OWS is doing and must continue in the much broader context of the nation as a whole to re-awaken the public to the co-opting and redefinition of American and universal human values, the basic humanitarian values essential to survival as a species and as a civilization. We must give priority and concerted effort to restoring the attempt at a balance of intelligence, emotion, and spirituality.  This is the ultimate pragmatism and nuance.

    99%er. 100% opposed to fundamentalist/neoconservative/neoliberal oligarchs.

    by blueoasis on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 02:44:16 PM PDT

  •  It's about time!! (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    timewarp, SadieB, katiec

    oh, and "yay!!!"

    The banks have a stranglehold on the political process. Mike Whitney

    by dfarrah on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 02:46:16 PM PDT

  •  Yesterday afternoon (7+ / 0-)

    I saw 1,000 twenty-somethings parade right past my window, singing "This Land is  Your Land," and playing various instruments. They had hand-lettered signs that said "Occupy Oakland" and "We are the 99%." I saw various residents in my building, people much younger than I am, standing on the mound outside my kitchen window and hooting at the procession.

    I was roughly in kindergarten when the Vietnam war protest was in full swing. I don't remember it personally. But I heard a Baby Boomer friend of mine comment recently, of the current crop of demonstrators, "They're better protesters than we were, more knowledgeable and sophisticated."

    This is all unprecedented in my recollection. I didn't come up, or come of age, with anything like it. Some people are older, and they have longer memories. I'd pick their brains for ideas about how to keep these protests fresh and trenchant, the way protests against the Vietnam war remained, for many years.

    It's here they got the range/ and the machinery for change/ and it's here they got the spiritual thirst. --Leonard Cohen

    by karmsy on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 02:48:59 PM PDT

  •  i went to my first Occupy last night (6+ / 0-)

    i went with a friend who has worked with Occupy Athens (GA) for a while.  He gave a speech which was well received by the g.a.  He dreamed up the idea of OA having more publicity materials, including bumperstickers for truckers that read "We haul/deliver for the 99%", since there is a trucker who is part of the group here.  Also wanted UGA dorm-room windows with one letter in each window to read "we are the 99%".
    I was very impressed with the organization and dedication of those involved.  I plan on showing up and holding down the fort for a while from time to time.
    A few pedestrians stopped to argue (50% of Americans pay no taxes!), fewer still stopped to be informed.  Cars passing however gave more positive honks than those shouting "F'ing Hippies, Go Home!!!"

  •  Demonstrations (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OleHippieChick, carolyn urban

    Wisconsin pointed the way early this year and still does.  The people in that instance turned their anger into political action and accomplished great things which will directly affect their lives.  Gov Scott Walker is next on the list and regardless of what happens the people made their power felt.

    OWS doesn't seem to be going in the direction of political action.  Indeed some of the people I've spoken with are talking about the 'Revolution'.  Revolutions can go down many different paths often ending in ways not imagined.  If only the people involved can turn this to electoral politics taking over the Democratic Party the way the Tea Party has done to the Republican Party great things could be accomplished.   My feeling though is that many who are a part of OWS have no intention of going the route of electoral politics which is a shame because the movement will be destined to fade away.  Americans are not ready at least now to dump the entire system and fight a revolution.  That would mean missing the next American Idol!

    •  OWS represents a motherlode of voters. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      timewarp

      If politicians are interested in earning those votes, the path is clear.

      The problem is not that "people are dumb" it is that politicians apparently are, or might be.

      Truly the destruction of the earth only results from the destitution of its inhabitants, and its inhabitants become destitute only when rulers concern themselves with amassing wealth. Caliph Ali, 7th century

      by SadieB on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 03:03:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I responded to the survey (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    carolyn urban

    What do you most like, or dislike, about Occupy Wall Street so far?
    I am most impressed at the organic spontaneity and global relevance while having no specific leadership. Fame is fickle - it is mostly being in the right place at the right time and saying what needs to be said. OWS meets that. There is obviously a massive global pool of human solidarity that OWS has connected with. I don't think it is the only voice. I started celebrating when the Wisconsin folk started showing up at their capitol building and protesting in very non violent ways. I had a feeling this was the beginning. I am too poorly informed on middle east culture but the uprisings there seem to speak from a similar place. And now OWS tackles the heart of global power - the moneyed elite in the US and the corporations they control.

    It is about survival of the species and while very raw it does not seem to be kill or be killed. Rather it is a battle of Life against the Zombies.

    What do you hope Occupy Wall Street will accomplish?
    A return of caring to society. Not just government, or corporations but ALL walks of society. Caring for both people and all forms of life and even life itself. Capitalism has run out of resources on which to expand. It needs to change to an ideal of sustainability and maximum benefit versus raw profitability.

    As a practical matter I would like to see it produce a manifesto - perhaps using a wiki - that would work to transform what we have now to something that benefits everyone. This process should have no end - it should simply seek to improve life on this now human packed planet. It ought to be easy to make improvements when we look around. Just do what is beneficial and keep after it. The alternative doesn't bear thinking about.

    I do not think it should seek to produce candidates and leaders. We have lots of those. They are part of the problem as they are listening to and acting on poor advice as regards what is good for life. They have become self serving which has isolated them in a bubble in Washington. I think this is the problem of all leadership.

    Rather we need to give voice to the needs of people and supply some metrics against which to measure our options. Inequality is an obvious metric. So is life span, health, levels of crime. All these need to be assessed and updated in a trusted factual format that is always available to anyone. The internet is a game changer. Livestreaming is an example that works. Look at how NYPD was forced to respond. The whole world was watching.

    The leaders and systems we have are perfectly capable of delivering everything we need. They just need accountability above and beyond the election. Once hired you have to inspect what you expect to get what you want from an employee. No one is not needed. Everyone is included.

    We are seeing the application of surveillance in a beneficial form - instead of Big Brother watching us we need to watch Big Brother.

  •  What I am doing: (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sylv

    1. Donate when I can.
    2. When elections come, vote.
    3. Know who my elected employees are and contact them - often - about my concerns, one concern per communique so they don't get confused.
    4. Helping others.
    5. Modeling by my behavior and attitude that we are all worthy people, worth paying a living wage, worth helping, worth listening to.
    6. Feeding the hungry.
    7. Try to give others what they need, not what I think they need.
    8. Sit when I can with the Occupy local group.
    9. Write, publicize, share, listen.

    I do hope OWS remains leaderless.  I feel it is important that it never has a single spokesperson or spokesgroup, but that each of us speaks for it in our own names.

    And promote the consensus with autonomy mindset.  Make that a way of life.

    How many helicoptors does it take to make the color blue?

    by Noddy on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 03:05:32 PM PDT

  •  I wrote about this in a diary earlier today. (4+ / 0-)

    I hope you'll take a minute to read through it.

    Basically my thought were that just as OWS effectively shifted the dialog from austerity to income disparity, I'd like to see OWS begin to shift the dialog toward reforming campaign donations that threaten our democracy and rob the people of a voice. This is the basis of our problems, including the pillaging on wall street and every other ill the middle class faces. I'd like to see the movement begin to expose and challenge our politicians drawing a direct line between who gives them money and how they legislate. Putting them on the defensive with the intended result that some pols will step up to the plate and publicly reject campaign funding from wall street, banks, oil companies, unions, multinational corporations, super pacs, and other lobbyists who might expect a return of the "favor" in the form of favorable legislation.

    Of course as a partisan, I'd like to see Dems initiate this moral stance. I think it would drive the dialog further, education americans, make HUGE news and possibly, if enough folks did it, neutralize the effect of CU in 2012 because people will be leery of most every commercial that airs, wondering WHO PAID FOR IT.

    As I said, I wrote about this in my diary today. And maybe that's what Chris is trying to figure out. Maybe he's thinking that as partisans, we can have the power to approach at least a few of the more principled members of congress and get them to do this as a way to "put the money where the mouth is". (Am I coherent?)

    I've become re-radicalized. Thanks a lot you bunch of oligarchical fascist sons-of-bitches. But once again, I have no choice. Bring it the fuck on.

    by mdmslle on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 03:06:12 PM PDT

  •  OWS needs to create a Wash., DC "Hooverville" (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sylv, ftm, Words In Action

    My 2 cents:

    I went to support the Sacramento, California OWS on Saturday, Oct. 15. It was small (maybe 400 marched to the Capital), but a good cross-section of different types. What struck me is that it was too small to do much in and of itself.

    IMHO, OWS needs to coalesce around a grand "occupy" where it will do the most good - in Washington, DC. Those who are ready to occupy for extended periods of time should uproot and reroot there. And all the long-term unemployed who've fallen off the unemployment rolls should be urged to join them there. In addition, people of good conscience who can afford to should rework vacation time in our nation's capital to join in for a few days.

    IOW, I think OWS could spark a new "Hooverville" in Washington, DC. This would give the unemployed a voice they presently lack.

  •  from what (0+ / 0-)

    I hear the park rally smells. I would think OWS would clan the place up before Geraldo  or andrew breitbart "brake wind in there"

  •  They need to hold both parties accountable. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    timewarp

    I work with B2B PAC, and all views and opinions in this account are my own.

    by slinkerwink on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 03:13:25 PM PDT

  •  sadly (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    timewarp, jpmassar, Sylv
    In just five weeks, Occupy Wall Street has already shifted the national conversation on our economic woes away from deficits and spending cuts, and toward unemployment and Wall Street dominance of government.
    everywhere but in the Republican House of Representatives and Republican state houses everywhere.  They are digging in more desperately than ever, to take new spending cuts out of the hides of ordinary people. OWS is a brilliant movement, essential, and inspiring, but its work has just begun.

    Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it. --Mark Twain

    by SottoVoce on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 03:14:05 PM PDT

  •  Don't be afraid to tell the Banks to go to hell... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SadieB, timewarp, Words In Action

    If you feel like you are being abused by them, and the situation is right for you, Bankruptcy is a tool that will hit them where it hurts.

    I wrote a diary a couple days back elaborating on my family's experiences.

    We should not feel morally bound to those who have no qualms in breaking the Social Contract.

  •  someone I admire greatly asked me recently what (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SadieB, timewarp, Wek, Words In Action, goobop

    I thought about the OWS movement. My response:

    I'm cautiously optimistic.  . . .

    I tend to be perhaps a bit more pessimistic than most politically-active people--probably because I was born a bit too late to participate in the 60's and my political coming-of-age was the rise of Reagan. We of the 80's never had the wonderful idealistic enthusiasm and optimism that the 60's had, because we were always small, always ignored, and virtually never won anything (and even the areas where we did win--ending apartheid, preventing the invasion of Central America--we could never be sure just how large a role if any we played anyway). We barely ever had any opportunity to actually fight FOR something--we were instead always on the defensive, always fighting AGAINST something. That's not a situation that builds optimism.  ;)

    On the other hand, it was a hell of a good time to learn the art of organizing. The Darwinian natural selection process was brutal--organizers who couldn't really organize, or who just wanted to posture and speechify, didn't last long. There was no glory to be had, only defeat after defeat. We avoided for the most part factionalism and leadership struggles because, for the most part, there was never enough of an organization to matter (the environmental movement being perhaps the largest exception--and they did predictably fragment into a spectrum of organizations from Earth First! to Greenpeace to the Sierra Club). Egoists usually found that they were big frogs in little ponds, and they usually gave it up.

    To successfully survive through that time, one had to be self-confident enough to keep going, adaptable and flexible enough to follow along with the flow of the fight, enough of a preacher to inspire and motivate others even through the hard times, and creative in the use of strategy and tactics as one campaign after another got shot down. Those were, incidentally, the qualities that make for a good organizer, but wow, they sure wore everyone down in a hurry.

    And it got to me, too. Back in 1997, after watching the "New Dems" act just like the old Repugs, I said to myself, "Ya know what--I'm tired.  I'm getting older, I've done my part, it's up to the younger generation now, and I deserve a looonnng vacation". So I moved to Florida and, other than some blogs like DKos and setting up Red and Black Publishers, I left political work behind. But even then, every time the periodic wave of despair set in, the little voice in my head was still always there to say "You can't give up and let the bastards win."

    The Obama campaign didn't really push my optimism up, probably because I had seen the same thing with Clinton--a big wave of hope for change, then disappointment and disillusionment as the reality sets in. Having said that, the Obama campaign did impress me with the level of hope and optimism it inspired in others--Clinton never reached anything like that level. The man is a masterful organizer, fundraiser and campaigner, and I expect that his greatest work will actually come AFTER he leaves the White House.

    I did see the Obama campaign as necessary, though. One of the "advantages" of labor organizing, if one could call it that, is that one has to literally start over, from scratch, each and every time. The minute after winning (or losing) a labor fight with a group of militant well-organized workers who know what "solidarity" is, one moves on to a new group of disorganized demoralized people who aren't even sure they can fight. As one organizer friend of mine put it, "it's like educating a parade". It taught me the very important lesson (which far too many radicals never learned) of dealing with people from where they are, not from where WE are or would like them to be. People simply must be able to learn things for themselves, and that usually means watching as they initially try all the things that one already knows won't work, but which people need to see for themselves won't work. That is how I viewed the Obama campaign. The Obama campaign led to
    disappointment and disillusionment--and that was a necessary step. Once people could see for themselves that real change doesn't come from political parties, it comes from people--then the stage was set for the next step.  And OWS is that next step.

    What I like best about OWS is its spirit of optimism and hope. No longer are we just besieged in our castle, trying to defend the realm against the barbarian hordes--now we have the hope of going out into the world and actually changing some things. After the last three bleak decades, it's wonderful to finally see some optimism.  It's a great feeling. And I'm glad at howe quickly and widely the movement is growing.  When I joined in with the Occupy St Petersburg group, I was afraid it would be just a dozen college kids and I'd be the only one whose ever had any organizing experience--but I have been pleasantly surprised. There are a large number of people (for such a conservative area), and a good number are refugees from the 80's like me.

    Yes, the movement as a whole is naive and inexperienced, but then, they have no successful model to point to that they can emulate---the old pyramidical top-down structure of the Leninist parties has (thankfully) collapsed utterly in failure, and as for the major movements of the 80's, they barely extended outside of electoral politics and don't offer any models for a movement that operates outside of an electoral framework. The decentralized anarchist-based structure is pretty much the only game still left in town. I'm accustomed to that structure because the IWW has used it for decades, but we were using it among small groups of people who shared goals and ideology--it will be interesting to see how well it holds up in the wild with lots of different people and outlooks.

    The hard part is yet to come, of course. The initial hurdle will be the hardest--will the movement be able to move on to the next step once its initial actions (the occupations) inevitably lose steam and end? Will their organization be adept at dealing with the fluidity and adaptability that will be needed?  Will the decentralized "leaderless" model be able to maintain itself as factions inevitably form and leaders inevitably appear (and can a "leaderless" movement really exist anyway)? Can a nonviolent movement maintain itself once the militant wing inevitably starts to take the stage and drive away popular support (as it did in Seattle)?

    I remain cautiously optimistic . . .

    I view my role as that of the wise old mentor, who gently nudges everyone (from behind the scenes) into a direction that allows them to avoid the mistakes I've seen in the past, and towards the things that seem most likely to work. Just call me "Yoda". "Clear our mind must be; use the Force we must, and defeat the Emperor we will."  ;)

    Sorry for the big long stream-of-conscious thingie---I'm more or less thinking out loud, trying to synthesize the thoughts I've had all along but haven't really organized into any sort of coherence.  ;)

  •  Telling the stories of the 99%, web forum (0+ / 0-)

    The following is a repost of a message I left on the NYC general assembly forum.

    Hi all,

    Let me introduce myself. Unfortunately, as I am currently living and working in Madrid, Spain I haven’t been able to physically take part in OWS in NYC or anywhere else. I’m somewhat of a political junky and have been spending a lot of time pondering OWS and just wanted to float a half-crazy idea I had.

    It seems to me that one of the major strengths of OWS is it’s capacity to bring together stories from struggling 99ers of all different backgrounds and weave them into a compelling narrative. When people all told their stories separately, no one paid attention – the much simpler problem/idea of the national debt seemed to have a lot more salience. OWS gave the stories of the 99ers the coherence or platform they needed to be heard and the media narrative is changing.

    Perhaps I’m just looking for some way to be involved form so far away, but it occurred to me that in the age of reddit and fmylife.com there might be some way to create a web platform where all kinds of Americans, whether or not they live near an OWS site or have time to take part in protests could share their stories about a system that is not working for them (and maybe what they’d like to do about it)

    I Imagine something that might be divided into categories, for example:

    A struggling middle class – This might include stories of unemployment, losing jobs, declining financial security, foreclosures, paying for college…
    Poverty in America – Stories of people dealing with food security and homelessness, struggling to get by
    Criminal (in)justice in America – Not just stories of police interactions with protestors, but how the criminal justice system affects people’s lives, things like stop and frisk and the impact of mass incarceration on urban communities
    Immigrants in America – stories from 1st and 2nd generation immigrants on the impact of immigration and economic policies son their lives

    Moderators might approve posts, which would include a short introduction or summary and a link to a longer story if needed. There could also be opportunities for sharing photos and videos. Perhaps 9 featured stories every week or month?

    Unfortunately I don’t know much about the costs or technical feasibility of something like this. Anyway, if you have any interest or thoughts on content, feasibility etc. just reply or send me an e-mail at jerwinf1@gmail.com

  •  Two words.... OWS Fatigue (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jpmassar

    The story has to move, or the audience will move on.

    I applaud OWS and the courage of those who are going toe-to-toe with the police. But the public will soon weary of handmade signs, tents and sleeping bags.

    Personally, I'd like to see OWS become the "anvil" and the Dems in Congress become the "hammer" on two issues: Jobs and the restoration of financial industry regulation.

    I was on the street for the supporting rallies back on the fifteenth. But this week and next I'll be phone-banking to help three Democrats "occupy" seats on my town's city council.

    Perhaps more important is the effort prevent Tea Puppets from occupying those seats. My do-nothing Republican congressman was nothing more than a city councilman when he was elected to the House... twenty five years ago.

    We need spectacle, but local elections still matter... just ask the people of Wisconsin.

    Have you noticed?
    Politicians who promise LESS government
    only deliver BAD government.

    by jjohnjj on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 03:49:51 PM PDT

    •  Why didn't Occupy Wall Street go ballistic when (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Words In Action

      the Republicans and some Dems blocked discussion on passage of the American Jobs Act last week?

      Why was OWS locally not marching on the offices of every Senator that voted against cloture?

      Why didn't OWS make the weekend media coverage all about jobs and employment - and a specific proposal we have on the table?

      It is not OWS purpose to take sides with either the President or one political party - but shouldn't they have taken sides with the American people, in discussion of a jobs program?

      Huge missed opportunity to continue branding the movement as helping us all by forcing our Senate to pay attention to our needs and wants.

      Isn't that supposed to be the point?  The upset the status quo?  To make our government work for us?

      •  Because it was just kabuki? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        timewarp

        Truly the destruction of the earth only results from the destitution of its inhabitants, and its inhabitants become destitute only when rulers concern themselves with amassing wealth. Caliph Ali, 7th century

        by SadieB on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 04:54:00 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Why don't we call them out on the kabuki? (0+ / 0-)

          OWS isn't about getting rid of our government - it's about getting corporate ownership out.  It's about making our government work for us.  Not ignoring our government.

          So - let's take back our damn government.   Let's shine a light on all they do that we are fed up with.

          Why do we go off and ignore it?  When demonstrations of the very malfeasance we are demonstrating against exist daily?

          •  It was DEMOCRATIC kabuki. Best to ignore it. (0+ / 0-)

            Truly the destruction of the earth only results from the destitution of its inhabitants, and its inhabitants become destitute only when rulers concern themselves with amassing wealth. Caliph Ali, 7th century

            by SadieB on Mon Oct 24, 2011 at 04:55:40 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Maybe you don't get it -- the 1% hires (0+ / 0-)

            Republicans to implement their agenda and Democrats to pretend they are helpless to stop them.

            So why get sucked into the  game when there's so much work to be done elsewhere?

            Truly the destruction of the earth only results from the destitution of its inhabitants, and its inhabitants become destitute only when rulers concern themselves with amassing wealth. Caliph Ali, 7th century

            by SadieB on Mon Oct 24, 2011 at 04:59:45 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Maybe you don't get it - I'm asking why the (0+ / 0-)

              kabuki wasn't called out.  Not get involved in the game or take sides.  To point out how useless the kabuki is, how it doesn't work for us.

              Unless you are into overthrowing this government and getting rid of it, we work with what we have, and take it back.

              OWS missed a perfect chance to demonstrate how the system is owned and doesn't work for us.

    •  I believe it took time for Code Pink to go from (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Words In Action

      "spectacle" to action targeted at particular legislators and committees. This movement will evolve in the same way.

      "Ballistic" is still an option, but before a Wisconsin-style occupation of the U.S. Capitol can occur, the movement is going to have to build the kind of solidarity that you find only in labor unions nowadays.

      Remember, the Tea Puppets targeted Congress first. I think that OWS targeted Wall Street to create a clear distinction, and one with meaning.

      It's a statement that government per se is not the problem. Corporate influence upon government is the problem.

      Perhaps a "peoples march" from NYC to DC would be a good event. If that were to happen next summer, it could have a big impact on the 2012 elections.

      Have you noticed?
      Politicians who promise LESS government
      only deliver BAD government.

      by jjohnjj on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 06:21:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Occupy Norfolk needs supplies (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OLinda, OleHippieChick, SadieB

    They have lots of bread and water but they are short on veggies, fruits and fruit juices. Donations please.

    "Corruptio Optimi Pessima" (Corruption of the best is the worst)

    by zenox on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 03:50:44 PM PDT

  •  Here's a thought on what Daily Kos and others (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SadieB, Glen The Plumber

    can do to support #Occupy movements, at least in the short term.

    The Whole World is Watching. It's Time for the Local Politicos to Realize It.

    •  Excellent diary (0+ / 0-)

      Truly the destruction of the earth only results from the destitution of its inhabitants, and its inhabitants become destitute only when rulers concern themselves with amassing wealth. Caliph Ali, 7th century

      by SadieB on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 04:55:27 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  They need a "voice" (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SadieB, OLinda

    Maybe their own radio station that would air speeches, music, etc. "Radio-Occupy" would be nice. I also think they should have their own website. "Occupy.com"?

    "Corruptio Optimi Pessima" (Corruption of the best is the worst)

    by zenox on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 03:53:38 PM PDT

    •  "Radio Occupy," I love it. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      zenox

      Truly the destruction of the earth only results from the destitution of its inhabitants, and its inhabitants become destitute only when rulers concern themselves with amassing wealth. Caliph Ali, 7th century

      by SadieB on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 04:56:14 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Sorry Can't Risk Personal Outing At This Time. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    annieli, Words In Action

    No experience with OWS but sympathy and recognition that this is a stage the country needs to go through.

    And that it won't be enough.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 03:53:55 PM PDT

  •  I've made many comments about OWS... (0+ / 0-)

    ...do a search for my name...

  •  Occupy Charlotte (0+ / 0-)

    I went there yesterday, I'm not the type that will walk up to someone & start a conversation. So I watched.
    There was about 40 tents there.
    when I got there there might have been 75 people max.

    the crowd grew as it approached 3:00 PM.
    when I saw someone needed that help carrying food in I would help.
    Then there was a Mic Check. a guy told his story why he was there. A few more people spoke then we march to BoA.
    2 Cops led us there controling traffic & the crowd.
    for about 30 minutes the crowd chanted all the slogans we've all heard.
    about this time 2 Black guys in there 20's jaywalked & got arrested. The Crowd chanted/yelled "let them go" Shame on You". also "Jail the Bankers".

    then they had people say a few words.

    I left at this time.

    I hope the leaders come up with a better way to use the energy of this movement. I don't think standing in front of banks chanting slogans will get us anywhere.
    I also didn't think the crowd was correct yelling at the cops over the 2 jay walkers, IMO the cops did there job.

    From what I've seen the cops are bending over backwards in Charlotte. The yelling at them might change that IMO.

    I will go again next weekend to see how it goes.

    •  JWWB (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SadieB

      I responded to this copypasta you left in another diary and will again.  I jaywalk on an almost daily basis.  In fact, I have routinely jaywalked in every town and city I have lived in (and I've lived in a bunch of places).  I often jaywalk right in front of cops, and it has never once occurred to me to be afraid I might me arrested, because as a white female, such an experience is ludicrous  Yet, young black men are frequently stopped and frisked because they got "caught" breaking this law and ticketed, and I guess arrested in NC.

      So, the canard that the cops are just doing their job is absurd.

  •  Many concerns with the "direct democracy" (0+ / 0-)

    This movement is too large for it to be practical to get everyone together to make decisions.  Some form of representation/delegation is required, and if none is formed, then implicit representation/delegation will arise.  Unfortunately, dozens of people scream "BLOCK!" at anything with the faintest hint of representation/delegation.

    I agree that there should be no leaders, but that isn't the same as swearing off all representation/delegation.  And no, I don't think "online direct democracy" is a feasible solution.

  •  We need to end cloture and filibustering abuses (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OleHippieChick, jan4insight, trinite

    Grover Norquist tweeted today that they are "making it impossible for a Democratic President  to govern as a Democrat."
     President Obama has been blocked at every stage. He was duly elected by majority...and has been bound like no other since. The demand for 60 votes to even bring a bill to the floor is ridiculous. They have blocked innumerable  appointments etc. Enough.  

  •  Support the occupiers (4+ / 0-)

    The most important thing is to support the occupations.

    If people find that living in the occupied camps is preferable to living elsewhere,  OWS  will grow.   If  the camps fade away,  OWS will  lose the out from not having central spaces for people to gather and interact.  

    The occupations will no doubt ebb and flow,  but if OWS can continue to plan and broadcast demonstrations and actions,  there is a chance OWS can thrive.

    Support the occupiers!

  •  How do the 1% win elections? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jan4insight, Words In Action

    There are two answers. Money, and plurality voting.

    With money, they can buy 80% of one party and 45%-55% of the other. And with plurality voting, they can make sure that no third party will challenge their puppets.

    #OWS is clearly addressing the first problem. There's plenty of discussion of Citizens United, etc. But I think that the second problem -- plurality voting -- is just as big, and very important for #OWS.

    How do we fix plurality voting? I'm very involved with this issue, and I think that the answer is Approval Voting, then SODA voting and PAL representation. Others have slightly different ideas, but agree in general. Most mathematicians who have looked at this think that IRV would help a bit but wouldn't really solve the problem.

    Senate rules which prevent any reform of the filibuster are unconstitutional. Therefore, we can rein in the filibuster tomorrow with 51 votes.

    by homunq on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 04:07:46 PM PDT

  •  Publicly Financed Elections (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    annieli

    The common thread I see going through all of the multitude of problems being articulated by the OWS movement is the inability or unwillingness of government to "do things" because of the corrupting influence of money in politics.

    The root of these problem is that big money (1%) has bought our government and is influencing the way it legislates (at the expense of the 99%), so the Occupy movement has to articulate a way to undo this sorry state of affairs - through advocating for public financing of elections and other campaign finance reforms.

    Only after we get the money out of politics can we hope that our representatives in government start acting on our behalf, rather than on behalf of their big money donors and patrons.

  •  Was at Occupy Boston today (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jpmassar, timewarp

    ...and during a well-attended session on immigration, a drum banging group carrying the US flag, a "Don't Tread on Me" flag, and something else, can't recall. They were all dressed mainly in black, and most if not all had masks over their mouths, some wore full masks. They were loudly shouting something like "Leave the tents and hit the streets!"

    After interrupting the immigration session for at least the third time, one of the OB coordinator types took the microphone and apologized for the racist, rude anarchists who were disrupting the session. That pretty much brought an end to it. Sorta strange, uncomfortable.

    It was a rather dark afternoon, and cold, and not much was happening down there due to the annual Head of the Charles Regatta, which had the banks of and bridges over the Charles River packed with folks, largely younger types.

    Ich bin ein Wisconsiner!

    by Apphouse50 on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 04:50:59 PM PDT

  •  This week I attended a small meeting of people (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    timewarp, SadieB

    working on two issues:  Move Your Money and get a state bank in Oregon.  North Dakota has had a state bank for 90 years.  Most of the people attending are also Occupy participants.

    If you haven't moved your money, please do it.  If you don't know about why your state needs a state bank, check on what one has done for ND, especially her farmers.

    Oregon almost approved a state bank in the last legislative session.  It's about keeping the money at home, away from Wall Street and big banks, and putting your money and retirees' pensions into locally owned and controlled banks and credit unions.  Move your Money, advocate for a State Bank.  This assures that money will go to small business loans and entrepreneurs, who are creating jobs.  It's our best chance to create jobs.

    Let's put Republicans' "job creators" out of business.

  •  The message? Camping in parks and smoking dope (0+ / 0-)

    is not a message. And that's what's coming through here in Oregon. There needs to be a focus and a strategy. Moving power to the middle class. How? An immediate constitutional amendment to remove money from politics.

    •  Thank you Archie Bunker (0+ / 0-)

      Truly the destruction of the earth only results from the destitution of its inhabitants, and its inhabitants become destitute only when rulers concern themselves with amassing wealth. Caliph Ali, 7th century

      by SadieB on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 06:08:10 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  you keep saying this as if it were true. it's not. (0+ / 0-)
      Occupy Providence will act with all due respect for the people and the property of the City of Providence and the State of Rhode Island, and we intend to leave Burnside Park in better condition than we found it. Occupy Providence is inclusive for all people and families of all ages: drugs, alcohol, discrimination, harassment, and violent behavior are NOT WELCOME.
      OWS has zero tolerance for drugs or alcohol anywhere in Liberty Plaza;
      Zero tolerance for violence or verbal abuse towards anyone;
      Zero tolerance for abuse of personal or public property.
      OWS will limit drumming on the site to 2 hours per day, between the hours of 11am and 5pm only.
      Occupy Riverside is a non-violent protest. No drugs or alcohol will be permitted.
  •  Define, organize and act (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Words In Action

    I just skimmed through an article that pointed out that Republicans have three basic tenets; small government, low taxes and a strong national defense.  While Dems have about a million causes, all legit, of course, perhaps its time to outline 3 or 4 tenets which define us, so we can coalesce and use the Occupy opportunity to find strength and direction and make change.   I know this may be contrary to what Occupy aspires, but I agree with the diarist; it’s a great “happening “ right now, but may fizz out if the energy is not harnessed.   I understand that harnessing anything may be an anathema to dems as we like lots of equality and freeform thinking and discussion, but I worry about an opportunity lost at a defining time in history
    I kind of like outlines with subsections to deal with complexities.  For example if I were defining the things I believe in , my tumbling thoughts would eventually shape up something like this:  
    1. Good Government
    a.    Protection  (from)
    i.    Economic Injustice
    ii.    Environmental Damage
    iii.    Poverty and Hunger
    b.    Investment
    i.    Infrastructure
    ii.    Education from head start to higher ed
    iii.    R&D to move the country forward
    1.    Energy
    2.    Health
    iv.    Health of citizenry (universal health care)
    v.    Global Relationships
    1.    Diplomacy
    2.    Military
    2.Opportunity  (The Pursuit of Happiness)
    a.    Economic Opportunity
    b.    Volunteerism
    c.    Social Justice   
    3.Democracy
    a.    Government of , by and for the people

    So…… (seeing that the formatting doesn't work well here)  the things I hold most dear in this country boil down to Good Government,   Opportunity and Democracy.      I’d probably make “action” lists under each subsection, like “Reinstate Glass-Seagal”  and “Make Banksters repay bailout money”  and  “Allow Bush Tax Cuts to Expire”   under Economic  Injustice.   “Universal Health Care (Single Payer)” would fall under Health of Citizenry.   “Two years of PostSecondary Education for All”  would go under the Education category.    Actionable activity under  Democracy may be “Campaign Finance Reform”.   This would be so I didn’t have thoughts  (which are nice and easy to have)  without concrete deeds to actually make change  Prioritized lists and developing time lines would also come into play.
    I understand the beauty of the  free-wheeling concept  to be who and what  you want to be under the Occupy Movement.  No one loves a 5 hour in depth  discussion on any topic better than I do.  But I also understand that to change the world, you have to act on your principles.  And that requires defining your principles.  

  •  Taxation w/out representation and the rule of law (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SadieB, Chitown Kev, OLinda

    were among the most fundamental issues that sparked the American Revolution. The fact that the 99% are footing the bill via any number of taxes, fees and hidden taxes and the 1% are the ones being represented in government is finally getting noticed and the multi-tiered legal system that allows the rich to evade and for all practical purposed to ignore the law is likewise gaining enough attention to be really pissing people off. En masse.

     I hope that OWS stays intact long enough to bring fundamental change and get the $$$ out of politics and reinstate the rule of law. Just dreaming' I suppose, but that would be the greatest good that I can imagine from them.

    Information is abundant, wisdom is scarce. The Druid

    by FarWestGirl on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 06:33:27 PM PDT

  •  it ain't rocket surgery (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SadieB
    "The Occupy Wall Street protesters gathered outside Rupert Murdoch's house chanting, 'What do we want?' Murdoch interrupted saying, 'I already know, I hacked your phones.'" - Craig Ferguson

    my unemployed, disabled sister in seattle writes:

    "Apparently people are Occupying Wallstreet because they are frustrated for some reason. It doesn't make any sense really -- just because they have no jobs or savings, the existing institutions have sacked the government coffers and the people still want the services that the government can't afford because of the wars... Or something vague and unknowable like that.

    "You'd think the media talking heads are all independently wealthy to be so at a loss as to what this is all about.

    "BTW -- the strategy of not having a hook the media and corporate can hang onto and use to deep-six the whole thing -- brilliant. Worked for the Egyptians - glad to see we American's can follow their lead.

    "peace + love"

    "Every journalist who is not too stupid or too full of himself to notice what is going on knows that what he does is morally indefensible." - Janet Malcolm

    by slangist on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 06:46:00 PM PDT

  •  Nadir (0+ / 0-)

    Why not just endorse the Green Party or some other nitwit party? That's where this thing is headed.

  •  I keep trying to have electoral thoughts (0+ / 0-)

    about OWS.  Can the D's ride this to victory over the R's somehow?  Can the R's turn it against the D's?  

    I hope it continues.  I would like to see it become more organized and more nimble and broad based.  I would like to see a hundred people show up when a county board is meeting, or a senate candidate is speaking, or a state senator is eating lunch.  100 witnesses for campaign finance reform here, another 100 there.  All over the country.  

    Then have Obama run on campaign finance reform.  He can say in all of his speeches that the change we want to see in the world will not happen without a D senate majority, a D house majority and a D president: shut and bolt the doors between the house of money and the house of government: vote D.  

    The robb'd that smiles steals something from the thief. -- Shakespeare

    by not2plato on Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 10:45:15 PM PDT

  •  Why Occupy Wallstreet? (0+ / 0-)

    A friend of mine posted this question: Can someone explain to me what this Occupy Wallstreet movement thing is all about and why we're doing it everywhere and how we are paying for all this? Seattle spent over $100k in police overtime. At what point does a protest become worse than what it is protesting?

    And I answered thusly:

    The small class of multi-billionaires who own majority stock in the biggest
    banks, holding companies, energy companies, auto, chemicals, shipping,
    mining, media, pharmaceuticals, agribusiness, etc (their portfolios are
    diversified), have successfully influenced our democracy to design laws and
    tax codes to increasingly funnel the wealth created by working people into
    their accounts. To do this these oligarchs are using that wealth to shape
    the consciousness of the public to distrust government, including taxation
    and regulatory oversight. By pouring money into campaigns they groom and elect their candidates for every office at every level, including the
    judiciary, with one result being to purchase the majority of the Supreme
    Court so they would pass Citizens United, which allows them to pour
    unlimited money into any campaign secretly. The Occupy protests are we, the people, trying to say we can see what is going on and it has to change,
    because these oligarchs are not that smart really, and are driving us off a
    cliff, environmentally and socially. They are creating conflict and
    devastating habitats to serve their business plans, with little
    consideration beyond their quarterly return on investments. Our democracy
    and our planet are in real danger. See
    The truth about voter suppression.

    Science is a way of thinking much more than it is a body of knowledge. -Carl Sagan

    by howardfromUSA on Mon Oct 24, 2011 at 01:43:48 AM PDT

  •  Some Tactics (0+ / 0-)

    1)    Spead the word! Wear tshirts, post signs, write “Occupy Wall Street” or “I am the 99%” on your dollar bills, make posts on the internet – anything that will help contribute to a sense of ubiquity.

    2)    Move your money out of the banks and into a credit union. Be very sure you indicate exactly why you’re making the move, both to the institutions involved and to people you interact with.

    3)    If you’re like me, you get a LOT of fundraising letters from the Democratic party (or Republican party, for those of us on the right who are a part of this movement). I donate when I can, but a great many of those letters get ignored, because I am not rich. Instead of ignoring those letters, I’ve taken to sending them back with a note – “sorry, all my support is going to Occupy Wall Street until the banks are brought to justice.” This reminds the Democratic party that their funding is contingent on reflecting my beliefs. By the way – use your own stamp when sending the letters back, to avoid costing the Dems money. We’re sending a message, not betraying the home team.

    4)    Hang out on the “occupy” forum or Facebook page for your local group and the national group. Get to meet people on there. Have discussions. Stay in contact with those people. Sign up for their email lists. Maybe even join their organizations as a paying member (I recommened “Working America” as a great umbrella organization, but there are many, many groups doing great work). When they send word around asking for a petition signature or a small 5$ donation, try to do it. Part of our difficulty is that the other side just has one ongoing focus and we have many. We need to support each other’s causes. Politics is a team sport.

    5)    Avoid the urge to get into ridiculous political debates. It’s just partisan mutual masturbation and it achieves nothing. You aren’t going to sway a Randian and they aren’t going to sway you. If you find yourself in such a debate, keep it respectful and be clear that you’re just having fun. Make jokes. Keep it a conversation rather than a confrontation. If it gets out of hand, or if you see others getting out of hand, remind everyone involved that there are a great many potential solutions to the ongoing problems and we are going to disagree about most of them, but while we can’t agree on solutions yet, we can all agree on the problem. Maintain that focus.

    6)    The exception to the above rule: voting. Always, always stand up for the notion of voting as part of the solution. Stand firmly opposed to any who suggest that OWS participants and supporters should not vote, or should only vote for the Green or Libertarian party or some other claptrap. Forcing the big parties to co-opt part of our platform and propose solutions to our issues is not selling out, it is a step towards victory. The Working Families party essentially exists to serve this role of pushing the Dems towards better policy here in New York.

    7)    Write and call your Senators and Congresspeople. This actually does make a big difference and they do respond to it. They need to know there are a lot of us, and that we care. The system is broken, sure; but it is not powerless. Work the levers we have when we can, and when we can’t, we make our own levers.

    This is far from the only playbook we can use, and you may not agree with some or all of these suggestions, but these are things I've been doing and sharing with others in the Occupy groups I interact with (Rochester NY and Toronto). I've found they play well with both cities even though the groups are quite different; Rochester's Occupation has a strong libertarian bent whereas Toronto's is heavily fueled by genuine socialists and communists.

    Being partisan and being right are not mutually exclusive.

    by DynamicUno on Mon Oct 24, 2011 at 12:41:32 PM PDT

  •  thoughts & experiences (0+ / 0-)

    Happy this is happening and inspired by the bravery of those who've been out there on the street and those who've brought more publicity to the protests, but still just observing, measuring, weighing....

    I like that people are taking a stand and speaking obvious truths that no one would say before. Just by existing and being seen, protestors are making a meaningful contribution, giving others hope, raising the national mood, destroying the veil of cognitive dissonance.

    What bothers me is that there is no clear direction moving forward. I'm not convinced that standing around in the street in the cold can serve a purpose that has not already been served - to raise awareness - but maybe it is still too early, and more time is needed to grasp that this is really happening, that people can trust it, that it represents them. I have mixed feelings about it, because I don't know where it's going or who is behind it, or how the movement will be used. I'm not hearing a specific agenda, but wonder if OWS will be co-opted for some nefarious purpose. I'm not convinced it's as democratic or organic as people say it is, or that I would be heard if I were there. I don't feel a sense of ownership, even if technically I am part of the 99% and agree that we're all being screwed by a government in bed with corporations. I am equally afraid of the protestors, the right-wingers who put them down, and the police. Call me paranoid and crazy if you want, but it is not OK to say I'm a troll or an enemy of the people or some other bullshit wherein I'm supposed to 100% agree with the popular opinion. I'm not a joiner. I don't do that, because I see again and again how it leads to lockstep thinking.

    Rather than donate from a distance, I would prefer to  give in person to help the people who are physically present, with hot food, blankets, rain gear, etc. I think I would contribute to a general fund to help transport people to a gigantic national demonstration.

    What I'd like to see come out of it: I want the wealthiest members of society to pay a higher percentage of their incomes in taxes, like 90%. I want an even distribution of funding to political campaigns, so everyone running has the same amount to work with and gets the same media exposure (no keeping some candidates out of TV debates.) I want to ditch the electoral college and switch to a one-person, one-vote system with run-off voting for second and third choices. If I were to complete this list, it would include about 50 other things, but suffice it to say that I want the protests to make a difference.

    My experiences are limited to following it all in the news through every available channel. I've been glued to the story ever since I first heard of it, and am blown away by the whole thing. I am awed, amazed, impressed, confused, overwhelmed, and intimidated. I haven't gone out there yet.

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