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Herman Cain
The facts contradict Herman Cain once again (Jason Reed/Reuters)
 
So it wasn't 0 months. Or 3 months. Or 6 months. It was a full year:
The National Restaurant Association gave $35,000 — a year’s salary — in severance pay to a female staff member in the late 1990s after an encounter with Herman Cain, its chief executive at the time, made her uncomfortable working there, three people with direct knowledge of the payment said on Tuesday.

And then there's this:

The precise nature of the encounters between Mr. Cain and the two women remained murky. He has said over the past two days that he joked with one of the women about her height, but he has not addressed what happened with the first woman — the one who received the $35,000 payment, according to the people who knew of it — or even acknowledged there was an incident with her. Her friends and colleagues said she had told them at the time that she was upset about the situation.

And this:

Four people with contemporaneous knowledge of the incident said the encounter had taken place in the context of a work outing during which there was heavy drinking, a hallmark, they said, of outings with an organization that represents the hospitality industry. They spoke on condition of anonymity to avoid being publicly drawn into the dispute, and declined to provide details of the encounter, saying they did not want to violate the privacy of the woman.

So it looks like there's still a lot to come out about this story, which can't be good news for Herman Cain. But on the upside, guys like Rand Paul and Rush Limbaugh have still got his back.

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Comment Preferences

  •  in general, a settlement of that size is only made (35+ / 0-)

    when they think a lawsuit is going to cost them more.

    and they only think a lawsuit will cost them more, when they know there is a possibility they could lose the suit.

    so the size of the settlement does matter.

    and also makes Koch-Cain look even more like a fool for claiming he was unaware of it.

    "Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D."

    by TrueBlueMajority on Tue Nov 01, 2011 at 07:10:42 PM PDT

    •  $35,000 in 1996 is like (8+ / 0-)

      $50,000 now.

      GreenDoor suggested a National Restaurant Association manager makes about $65,000 now.

    •  as a victim of sexual of harassment who was (11+ / 0-)

      fired for reporting it, i have become an authority in a small way about this 'area'.

      giving someone a year's salary is absolutely standard just for the reason you say and more.  they may also factor in the cost of negative publicity in the community and on shareholders as well, if there are any.  

      but more than that, the publicity may cause who knows what to come out of the woodwork back at the jobsite.  a place where a legitimate harassment claim arises seldom is a place that has been free of it up until that point.  and then there are all the bogus claims that may then arise.  iow, nuisance suits.  hence the secrecy surrounding the settlement- or so they say.

      i was awarded 2 full years salary.   additionally i was reimbursed for all medical and psychotherapeutic expenses up to that point.

      prior to being fired for insisting that something be done on the jobsite, and then following my firing and the lawsuit, i seriously doubt either of my harassers were ever told anything about the lawsuit.  

      i base part of this assessment on the fact that many at my former place of employment had no clue as to why i was 'disappeared', and on the fact that one of my harassers still follows me around whole foods and other places when he sees me, apparently little knowing the anguish he is causing.

      secrecy is the name of the game re: sexual harassment suits.  

      i also think the system works to protect the person in power which is always in fact the sexual harasser, because harassment is not about sexual attraction, but 'power over'.

      ergo, i think it is entirely possible cain knew not one thing about the settlement.  as a ceo, his whole support structure : his board, his vp's, whatever, would agree he had bigger fish to fry than spend one single further moment on the life of a female staff member.  

      oh, and another thing: 35K is small change to the insurance companies who actually end up paying in a settlement like this.  yes, that's right: there is insurance you can take out against sexual harassment claims.

      Je travaille, tu travailles, il travaille, nous travaillons, ils profitent --- I work, you work, he works, we work, they profit.

      by doesnotworkorplaywellwithothers on Tue Nov 01, 2011 at 08:04:13 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Settling at $35,000 does not say much ... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TrueBlueMajority

      ... about the merits of the case. Litigating the case (even if they ended up winning) could easily cost them that and more in legal fees.  In a civil action the accuser could get actual damages + punitive damages that could easily dwarf the $35K settlement award so settling for $35K if anything says more about  her and her lawyers  lack of confidence in their ability to prevail at trial.

  •  You're fast Jed, Lawrence O. just... (20+ / 0-)

    mentioned this on his show.  And don't forget disgusting racist Ann Coulter, who thinks "our blacks are much better than their blacks."  She has his back too.

    "Congress has not been able to fix these flaws so far, so I will." - President Obama, 9/23/11

    by BarackStarObama on Tue Nov 01, 2011 at 07:14:54 PM PDT

  •  A full year's salary now is, what, 2 packs of gum? (9+ / 0-)

    You have exactly 10 seconds to change that look of disgusting pity into one of enormous respect!

    by Cartoon Peril on Tue Nov 01, 2011 at 07:15:10 PM PDT

  •  Wow — just when you think (3+ / 0-)

    the Republican field couldn't get any more disastrous, they surprise you.

    Take the "Can't(or)" out of Congress. Support E. Wayne Powell in Va-07. http://www.ewaynepowell.com/

    by anastasia p on Tue Nov 01, 2011 at 07:18:14 PM PDT

  •  Why are we pushing this now? (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Bailey2001, jct, cany, Byblis

    Be better to keep Cain viable and keep Romney under attack. This helps Mitt out and that's not as good for us, imo.

  •  Talk about your one two punch: (19+ / 0-)

    I'm anxiously looking forward to Cain's explanation of what he disremembers about THIS:

    ... Prosperity USA, effectively subsidized some early costs of his presidential bid, paying for computer equipment, charter planes and air travel for Mr. Cain or the aide, Mark Block, who is his chief of staff.

    Such expenditures would violate federal election and campaign laws, which prohibit tax-exempt groups from engaging in any political activity or contributing to election campaigns, a major problem for Mr. Cain. ...

    Civil Disobedience: In weighing what is legal versus what is just, I'll take justice every time. That means I'm sitting down with my goddamned umbrella.

    by WisePiper on Tue Nov 01, 2011 at 07:26:59 PM PDT

  •  Let's be fair. (18+ / 0-)

    Yes, it was a full year's salary for her.

    But here's the confusion: it was only 2-3 months for Mr. Cain.

  •  She didn't get anything in a "settlement"... (10+ / 0-)

    That $35,000 was from an "agreement."

    Asked on Fox News Channel on Tuesday night why his story kept changing Mr. Cain said "when I first heard the word settlement I thought 'legal settlement' My recollection later was that was an agreement."

    •  Next he'll say... (8+ / 0-)

      ..."It wasn't 'sexual harassment,' it was 'one-sided sexual interest.'"

    •  Just an agreement... (6+ / 0-)

      with a two-way non-disclosure clause so weathertight that even now the women are desperately trying to keep themselves out of the discussion, unless they are released from it.  Nothing at all like a legal settlement, not at all.

      •  i doubt it was two-way (0+ / 0-)

        after all, only one party was claiming something unsavory.

        Je travaille, tu travailles, il travaille, nous travaillons, ils profitent --- I work, you work, he works, we work, they profit.

        by doesnotworkorplaywellwithothers on Tue Nov 01, 2011 at 08:42:28 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Almost certainly 2 way confidentiality (1+ / 0-)

          In this sort of case I've never seen a one way confidentiality clause - everyone wants the issue to go away permanently. The plaintiffs just want to get paid and not have a stigma follow them to their next employer; the defendants don't want their reputations hurt and don't want details about the payout made public since it can encourage add'l false claims.

          And yes, I am a lawyer.

    •  depends on what the meaning of.......is (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Trix, nonnie9999, retLT

      The hair I think Cain is trying to split is that if a suit was never filed in court, any payment would not technically be a 'legal settlement'. In other words, if a suit was filed but settled before it went to trial, that would be a clear cut 'legal settlement'. I assume a suit was never filed because if it were we would surely have heard about the court records by now.

      What likely happened was the aggrieved employee retained a lawyer and the restaurant association "agreed" to pay on the basis of a demand letter or some other such non-court filing. One could infer from that they really didn't want to defend against a lawsuit.

      Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx

      by Joe Bob on Tue Nov 01, 2011 at 07:46:09 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  They call them "Settlement Agreements." (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Trix, nonnie9999

        If Cain is a businessman, he knows this.

        Liberals: Taking crap for being right since before you were born. - Driftglass (and the amazing Professional Left Podcast at http://professionalleft.blogspot.com/)

        by briefer on Tue Nov 01, 2011 at 07:50:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I've entered into plenty of settlements before ... (6+ / 0-)

        suit was filed, and they're legally enforceable.  Technically, there's no real difference.

        PROUD to be a Democrat!

        by leevank on Tue Nov 01, 2011 at 08:03:04 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  How? Cain no longer works for the (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Trix

          restaurant association. What could be done to him? I can see the women being forced to give back some or all of their settlement/agreement/severance/'going away present' if they spoke out of turn but Cain seems untouchable [unless he actually signed something in which case he's already politically toast].

          "Someone just turned the lights on in the bar and the sexiest state doesn't look so pretty anymore" CA Treasurer Bill Lockyer on Texas budget mess

          by CaliSista on Tue Nov 01, 2011 at 08:16:06 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  you file the suit in court first. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        CherryTheTart, Joe Bob

        that's the fun part, because it's a BIG surprise at the other end.  then you do back and forth briefs and inters., filing each one in the court of jurisdiction.  then the lawyers meet with the judge who's read all the materials and the judge says see if you can work this out without wasting a full-on trial.'

        it is a legal case.   it is in the court records.  it is a 'legal case that was settled out of court' not settled by trial, ie, 'in court'.  if the court in question probably has the records committed to microfiche, the nyt reporters probably located the plaintiffs this way.

        Je travaille, tu travailles, il travaille, nous travaillons, ils profitent --- I work, you work, he works, we work, they profit.

        by doesnotworkorplaywellwithothers on Tue Nov 01, 2011 at 09:15:39 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  There are plenty of settlements before there's ... (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          CaliSista, The Nose, Joe Bob

          ever ANYTHING filed in court, especially in this kind of situation.

          Lawyer for woman goes to corporation and says, "Look, my client alleges Executive A did this, this, and this, and she feels she can't work there any longer because of his conduct.  She doesn't want to hurt the organization, or give it bad publicity, but she's willing to file if she doesn't get a reasonable settlement, and we both know that this will be in the news and will hurt the organization.  We're willing to settle for X dollars before filing suit so that nobody gets any bad publicity out of Executive A's conduct.  Do you want to do that, or would you prefer to fight it out in court?"

          There are plenty of potential cases settled that way, and I've never heard of any being settled for CLOSE to a full year's salary unless the company really thought they had some significant exposure to liability.  That doesn't mean the person alleging harassment was necessarily telling the truth, but it does mean that the company was seriously worried that it might be found liable.  If companies just willy-nilly handed out a full year's salary to anybody who threatened to file a complaint, there would be no shortage of people lining up to get hired purely to file a complaint and get a year's pay.

          PROUD to be a Democrat!

          by leevank on Tue Nov 01, 2011 at 11:16:24 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Agreed: it was a settlement (0+ / 0-)

            we shouldn't let Cain get away with drawing a false distinctions between a settlement (which he denied) and an agreement (which he admitted). I am not a lawyer but the legal dictionary at freedictionary.com defines a settlement as "the resolution of a lawsuit (or of a legal dispute prior to filing a complaint or petition) without going forward to a final court judgment." That part in parentheses means that even if a judge never sees it, it's still a settlement.

            If the HR people had handled it without any lawyers involved on either side and there had been no monetary payout, then it's accurate to call it an agreement. But Cain admitted that the restaurant association's general counsel handled the matter in at least one case and we know a substantial amount of money was paid and a nondisclosure agreement was signed--that's a settlement. Worst case: Cain lied when he said he wasn't aware of a "settlement." Other worst case: Cain didn't technically lie because he is too dumb to know the difference between a settlement and a judgment.

    •  Hey, I understand his confusion! (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Trix, nonnie9999, Templar, The Nose

      It was a settlement agreement, not just a settlement.  Of course, in 30 years of practicing law, every settlement I entered into was called an agreement.  The agreement is what you agree to do to settle the case or potential case.

      This is actually more ridiculous parsing than Bill Clinton's widely-ridiculed "It depends on what the meaning of 'is' is."

      PROUD to be a Democrat!

      by leevank on Tue Nov 01, 2011 at 08:01:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  i wanna know who dropped the dime... (11+ / 0-)

    on ol' herm's old problems.  i have my theories...


    larger version and a bonus pic

    I didn't get Jack from Abramoff...I'm not a Republican!

    by nonnie9999 on Tue Nov 01, 2011 at 07:32:15 PM PDT

  •  That's what I've been waiting to hear. (8+ / 0-)

    I've been waiting for this story to arrive on a number. Silly me, I thought it would take the rest of this week to get there. It only took two days.

    $35K (in '90s dollars) is way more than you pay to settle a non-substantive nuisance lawsuit. So yes, there is some there there.

    Meanwhile, from the NYT

    Further challenging Mr. Cain, a lawyer for the second woman called on the restaurant association to release her from a confidentiality agreement signed as part of her settlement, raising the prospect that she could publicly dispute Mr. Cain’s account of what happened.

    Another high-heeled shoe yet to drop.

    Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx

    by Joe Bob on Tue Nov 01, 2011 at 07:35:02 PM PDT

  •  He's done, Jed! n/t (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    nonnie9999, kravitz, filby, raincrow

    Float like a manhole cover, sting like a sash weight! Clean Coal Is A Clinker!

    by JeffW on Tue Nov 01, 2011 at 07:35:06 PM PDT

  •  Hate to tell you, Hermmie, this isn't going away! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    nonnie9999, raincrow
  •  So long Sperman Herman. Who's next? ... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    nonnie9999, retLT, raincrow

    Batter up. The republicans really are screwed. We have a lot of them in our rural area. They're all pissed because they think that BO is going to get re-elected. How sweet that will be!

    What's so bad about peace, love, and understanding?

    by Maximilien Robespierre on Tue Nov 01, 2011 at 07:41:54 PM PDT

  •  so the NYTimes knows who the woman is... (7+ / 0-)

    from the NYTimes...

    A relative of one of the women said Tuesday evening: “This is not something we asked for. This is not something we brought on.”
    If they're interviewing relatives I assume they know who she is, which more than likely means it will be public knowledge soon.

    America could have chosen to be the worlds doctor, or grocer. We choose instead to be her policeman. pity

    by cacamp on Tue Nov 01, 2011 at 07:43:24 PM PDT

  •  There go dem libruls, doing all dem (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    raincrow

    "fact" things.  I hate it when they do that.

    [This ignores the fact that the original story probably came from turdblossom.]

    Liberals: Taking crap for being right since before you were born. - Driftglass (and the amazing Professional Left Podcast at http://professionalleft.blogspot.com/)

    by briefer on Tue Nov 01, 2011 at 07:43:49 PM PDT

  •  Herman Cain's new ad is depressing (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Glen Maxey, filby, leevank, kat68

    Here we are now Entertain us I feel stupid and contagious

    by Scarce on Tue Nov 01, 2011 at 07:44:00 PM PDT

  •  In other news, Herman Cain said China (15+ / 0-)

    has "indicated that they're trying to develop nuclear capability".

    Good thing he has this whole sex scandal thing to cover up this latest gaffe.

    http://shanghaiist.com/...

  •  I am kind of disappointed (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    msmacgyver

    I was looking for to the Republican party having Cain way up in the polls only to show the Bradley effect still exists to wipe out all questions about their true base...

    oh well...

    Cain is about to find out how much his party really likes him...wouldn't be surprised to see him as an independent by the end of this...

    "But once John Boehner is sworn in as Speaker, then he’s going to have responsibilities to govern. You can’t just stand on the sidelines and be a bomb thrower." - President Obama, 12-07-2010

    by justmy2 on Tue Nov 01, 2011 at 07:45:59 PM PDT

    •  Among my conservative friends, this has (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      aisling, msmacgyver, Zornorph, raincrow

      made Cain more popular than ever.

      Liberals: Taking crap for being right since before you were born. - Driftglass (and the amazing Professional Left Podcast at http://professionalleft.blogspot.com/)

      by briefer on Tue Nov 01, 2011 at 07:53:32 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  just like Bush got more popular during (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        briefer, msmacgyver, retLT, raincrow

        Katrina...

        it will pass...

        and this comes from someone who said this when this started...

        http://www.dailykos.com/...

        another high tech lynching in the rw  fantasy land on the way.

        will die out after Cain cries bloody murder and find some inconsistency.  May actually help him.  We all know how the RW likes their martyrs.

        But I neglected to take into account the RW annihilation machine.  The party heads will not hold anything back.  Trust me.  They have their plan in place and Herman Cain won't know what hit him by the time this all ends.  The media is already camping out at the women's houses.

        If he were a politician he may have a shot.  But he can't handle being Roved by Perry.  Those guys don't play around.

        "But once John Boehner is sworn in as Speaker, then he’s going to have responsibilities to govern. You can’t just stand on the sidelines and be a bomb thrower." - President Obama, 12-07-2010

        by justmy2 on Tue Nov 01, 2011 at 08:00:43 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Out of curiosity, why? nt (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        briefer

        May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house. George Carlin

        by msmacgyver on Tue Nov 01, 2011 at 09:02:49 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  They feel like the "libruls" are attacking him (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          msmacgyver, raincrow

          so they feel defensive.  "It just shows how scared the liberals are of Cain.  It just shows that he's not part of the establishment.  He's got them running scared."

          It plays into their whole victimhood thing.

          Liberals: Taking crap for being right since before you were born. - Driftglass (and the amazing Professional Left Podcast at http://professionalleft.blogspot.com/)

          by briefer on Wed Nov 02, 2011 at 01:57:30 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Tom Brokaw mentioned on The View (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        CaliSista, leevank

        that NBC, while Barbara Walters was there, was like a male locker room in terms of how men treated women without apology.

        I'm also reminded that we wouldn't have an (ahem) adult entertainment industry if someone wasn't paying to keep it going.

        The point of course, is that there's a kind of man who considers aggressive, hostile, degrading behaviour to be rather acceptable and normal. In many cases, sexual harassers don't consider their comments - or environment they've created - to be unusual or unacceptable. They have power and money, and figure you want to or need to be around them. Just deal with the crap they dish out. You still get something out of the deal.

    •  Could we possibly hope for... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      raincrow

      Cain/Palin?

      May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house. George Carlin

      by msmacgyver on Tue Nov 01, 2011 at 09:02:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I hired a 19 year old kid (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    CherryTheTart

    last month. Last week he whistled at a pretty receptionist in our office. I told him, "if this girl like you then she's probably flattered right now. But if she does NOT like you, which is probably the case, then you're probably on your way out the door".

    Contrast that to the current situation. Where "presidential" candidates pay hush money to women they come on to at work, then lie about it. Cain's a loser.

    No Jesus, Know Peace

    by plok on Tue Nov 01, 2011 at 07:51:38 PM PDT

  •  I refrain from passing judgement until proof is (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BlueStateRedhead, zipn, Zornorph

    given. Seriously.  Sexual harrassment is a serious issue, but people have gotten so upset over a small number of high-profile false accusations in the past that the best approach is to just take a deep breath and wait for the evidence.  Barring any evidence, I won't get involved in the conversation one way or another.

    Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!

    by bigtimecynic on Tue Nov 01, 2011 at 07:51:54 PM PDT

    •  agreed - but. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      msmacgyver

      $35K doesn't seem like much, and quite frankly, if it was only one episode, and it was at an event where everyone was drinking, it -could- be just an opportunist trying to get some free cash.  That are shitty people everywhere who given half a chance, jump to sue.

      ...but that's really not the issue now.

      The issue is how Caine has mishandled the entire thing. Glad to see he get slammed by this. Maybe it will hurt his book sales when he finally drops out. I hope he leaves the field in tatters.

      Extraordinary Claims require Extraordinary Proof.: Carl Sagan

      by zipn on Tue Nov 01, 2011 at 08:07:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  a whole year's salary is a huge amount. (0+ / 0-)

        even today, 10-15 k is what is paid for a nuisance suit.

        the plaintiff's had something on him.

        Je travaille, tu travailles, il travaille, nous travaillons, ils profitent --- I work, you work, he works, we work, they profit.

        by doesnotworkorplaywellwithothers on Tue Nov 01, 2011 at 08:48:33 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  According to reports (above), (0+ / 0-)

        there are two separate incidents.  The "settlement" was paid to the woman at the offsite event where heavy drinking was involved.  The other one is the incident where he compared the height of his wife to another woman.

        May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house. George Carlin

        by msmacgyver on Tue Nov 01, 2011 at 09:05:48 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  the restaurant assoc (0+ / 0-)

        pays some managers $65,000 in 2011. a non-mgr might get $50K in 2011. in 1996 dollars, that's $35K. so it wasn't odd to hear Cain say he thought she got about $50K.

        problem is, the lawyer I've heard quoted tonight said the 'chin height' comment Cain gave to GVS wasn't either of his clients. so is there already a third?

    •  Then why did you just comment on this thread? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      CaliSista
  •  Sorry, but (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Zornorph

    $35K--if that really was the number-- means "we'd have to pay lawyers more than your case is worth, so here, just go away."  It also means the woman's lawyers thought the same thing.

    Compare this to Andrea Mackris's $12 million settlement against Bill O'Reilly. The filed complaint in the case was 22 pages long and so detailed that the plaintiff could be assumed to have taped O'Reilly's heavy-breathing phone calls.

    For $35K, there can't have been a whole hell of a lot of risk for Cain. People get about the same amount for a displaced lumbar disc.  Of course it still makes Cain a creep and a sleaze.  I would urge compassion, though. He can't help it. He's a Republican.

    •  again, that's in '96 bucks (0+ / 0-)

      which is about $50K. at the time, not long after the OJ trial, companies weren't doing high payouts for harassment if they settled. the notion of keeping cases out of the courts and paying astronomical amounts happened much later.

      racial discrimination cases which went to court, such as CocoCola and Texaco - about the same time - went into the millions because of the number of plaintiffs, and because the cases were headed to trial.

    •  I completely disagree! (2+ / 0-)

      In my experience, companies don't give people a year's salary as a "nuisance settlement."  I was involved in some employment discrimination cases on the sides of both the companies and the employees, and that certainly wasn't my experience.  Companies know that if they start spending that kind of money in nuisance settlements, it will only encourage more such claims.  

      PROUD to be a Democrat!

      by leevank on Tue Nov 01, 2011 at 08:15:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  it also means they want them to sign the (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        leevank

        confidentiality agreement, because where there is one legitimate complaint there is likely to be more present, and possibly into the future.

        Je travaille, tu travailles, il travaille, nous travaillons, ils profitent --- I work, you work, he works, we work, they profit.

        by doesnotworkorplaywellwithothers on Tue Nov 01, 2011 at 08:50:53 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I completely agree! (0+ / 0-)

          If it were up to me, confidentiality agreements in connection with a suit or potential suit would be void as contrary to public policy.  I realize that this would to some extent discourage settlements, but I think light is a pretty good disinfectant, and if more settlements were made public, there would probably be a lot less of the conduct that led to the claim resulting in a settlement.

          PROUD to be a Democrat!

          by leevank on Tue Nov 01, 2011 at 11:20:23 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  i was the victim of terrible sexual harassment (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            leevank, CherryTheTart, miserychick

            and am under the same confidentiality restraints.  and i completely agree with you.  

            first, i can't tell you how utterly awful it has been to walk around town, fired for reporting sexual harassment and running into people who wondered why i disappeared, and not be able to say why.

            secondly, no one seems to be able to talk about it, so there are very few guides or books or articles written on  it, by those that have been there.  this means no one knows how to build their case and what to do and who to go to.    for instance, i void my agreement and am subject to a 10k fine if i so much as recommend my lawyer to someone in a similar circumstance.  

            there are no support groups for women who find themselves in these circumstances, and i think it may be connected somehow.  

            i know in my situation, there were other instances of abuse in the same place ... i think confidentiality agreements kept those from coming forward for years.

            the first thing my lawyers said to me when i told her such and such had happened at this place, was groan 'this will be the third time this year i go up against these people'.

            Je travaille, tu travailles, il travaille, nous travaillons, ils profitent --- I work, you work, he works, we work, they profit.

            by doesnotworkorplaywellwithothers on Tue Nov 01, 2011 at 11:35:09 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  the confidentiality agreement is usually for the (0+ / 0-)

          plaintiff so it doesn't affect them getting a job in the future

    •  Then again, look at the targets. Unknown (1+ / 0-)

      association vs Fox News; CEO of that unknown association vs BillO - public face of Fox News. He said/she said vs. likely taped conversations.

      I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it as "just go away" based on the level of compensation.

      "Someone just turned the lights on in the bar and the sexiest state doesn't look so pretty anymore" CA Treasurer Bill Lockyer on Texas budget mess

      by CaliSista on Tue Nov 01, 2011 at 08:23:21 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  wrong! (0+ / 0-)

      There's something very foul here.  This sounds like a legitimate gripe but one that the person(s) wanted to settle quickly.

      If it's no big deal, why not tell the complete story?

      "The real wealth of a nation consists of the contributions of its people and nature." -- Rianne Eisler

      by noofsh on Wed Nov 02, 2011 at 04:42:38 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Meh (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    msmacgyver

    Based on what's been said so far, I can't think of anything he could have done in this particular situation that would hurt his stature within the republican party. They are going to rally around Herb the Black like you have never seen.  He's their opportunity to say, "Look, we have a black just like the Dems." Or maybe I should say "Our" black. As Coulter likes to say. No, he may decide to do something, but it won't be from the pressure from his own party. Plus there is that whole hypocrisy thing. They seem to go out of the way to be hypocritical. They thrive on it.

  •  Hermain Cain (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kravitz, CherryTheTart, raincrow

    Sounds like a guy who can't take nein, nein, nein for an answer.

  •  limbaugh quotes accuser, but how? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    msmacgyver, kravitz

    limbaugh says the accuser said "nothing overtly sexual"
    but where did he get that from? said it 3 times.

    RUSH: It's fascinating to study this. They're so hoping that there's something there, so hoping that Herman Cain steps in it, and every time I hear one of these people go on and on and on about this... Let's take what is the worst that coulda happened here? Done what? Done what? What? Okay. We're talking about a gesture. By the women's only admission there was "nothing overtly sexual," right? So what is the worst thing that coulda happened here? Whatever the worst thing is, it pales when you compare it to anything done by Bill Clinton, John Edwards, or Ted Kennedy. Now, where, Chris Cillizza, is the sense of proportion? You people in media love to talk about the "sense of proportion." Where is it in this story?
    He keeps changing his story? Things he said then aren't what he's saying now? This is something you would never forget if you'd been accused of sexual harassment and he's saying he didn't remember it? If somebody accused me of sexual harassment and then said I had done nothing "overtly sexual," I would be so confused I wouldn't know what to do. I'd be scratching my head. "What the hell did I do?" If somebody said I sexually harassed them but whatever it was was "not overtly sexual," how can you plead guilty to it? My friend Andy McCarthy has recently posted on this at National Review Online, and here's what he says. I'm not. "I'm not sure how conflicting Cain’s statements about this nonsense are, and I frankly don’t care. Cain’s made a number of conflicting statements on matters of substance (e.g., negotiating with terrorists, abortion, the propriety of killing al-Qaeda's Anwar al-Awlaki, etc.).

    Progressives will lose all major messaging battles until they picket the limbaugh/hannity megastations and boycott those stations' local sponsors.

    by certainot on Tue Nov 01, 2011 at 07:59:21 PM PDT

    •  This part (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      msmacgyver, certainot, leevank
      "I'm not sure how conflicting Cain’s statements about this nonsense are, and I frankly don’t care. Cain’s made a number of conflicting statements on matters of substance (e.g., negotiating with terrorists, abortion, the propriety of killing al-Qaeda's Anwar al-Awlaki, etc.).
      is hardly a ringing endorsement of the guy.

      "Someone just turned the lights on in the bar and the sexiest state doesn't look so pretty anymore" CA Treasurer Bill Lockyer on Texas budget mess

      by CaliSista on Tue Nov 01, 2011 at 08:26:10 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Perhaps he got that nugget from the same place (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      certainot

      that the frantic commenters who have responded to this and the other two diaries posted on this topic in the past 24 hours.   People, let's not let ourselves and other Democrats look foolish by making wild, unsupported assumptions and publishing mad predictions based on a the current state of the evidence.  To try to make use of the sexual harassment allegations, let's avoid the diversion bringing in stock players entirely irrelevant to the allegation, for example, Ann Coulter, Karl Rove, China, and Bill O'Reilly.  To this writing, we have not seen or heard from either alleged accuser.  We don't know the accuser(s) name(s).  We don't know anything specific and politically userful about act(s) alleged.  We don't know whether Cain was a party to the settlement agreement.  The price of the agreement tells us nothing as to whether any improper even ever occurred.  We can fire cannons 'til the barrels melt down, but if might be a good idea to see if the scouts can locate the targets first.  Give a couple of days for the fog of war to clear.

      •  i agree but limbaugh's got 600 stations - that's (0+ / 0-)

        why i ask. he's the leader of the republican party.

        if he repeats  three times that the woman said this, the same phrase, it means something.

        Progressives will lose all major messaging battles until they picket the limbaugh/hannity megastations and boycott those stations' local sponsors.

        by certainot on Tue Nov 01, 2011 at 09:22:19 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  suddenly I'm convinced (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    raincrow

    people are giving him money so he gets the gop nom against Obama, knowing he'll lose.

    but they're probably betting against him, like GoldmanSachs and CDOs.

    (You may quote Carl Levin now....)

  •  well (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    CaliSista, raincrow, The Nose

    If you are not rich a sexual harasser, don't blame wall street the liberal media, blame yourself

    wait
    that didn't come out right

  •  Greta Van Sustern's show was a cute choice (0+ / 0-)

    Notice he did several interviews on shows hosted by WOMEN Monday and Tuesday? Including Joy Behar!

    But most interesting was doing Greta Van Sustern, who noted, and LOD played the quote about women seeing harassment differently than men.

    You may recall, or may not have been aware, that got plastic surgery on her face and then got on Fox. Major facelift from her days on Court TV and CNN.

    We've never heard what really made her do that.

  •  35k is standard whether bogus or not (0+ / 0-)

    35k is the standard settlement in these types of cases because the insurance company lawyers for said business/person that is accused do this because it costs them 35k minimum in legal fees just to bring the case. Google sexual harassment 35,000 and tons of these cases will come up with the exact same figure. It has nothing to do with whether the allegations are true or not.

  •  If you can't hold your liquor... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    CherryTheTart, raincrow

    ....blame yourself.  If you turn into an asshole when you drink, blame yourself.  If you sexually harass women, most definitely blame yourself.

    9-11 changed everything? Well, Katrina changed it back.

    by varro on Wed Nov 02, 2011 at 12:31:39 AM PDT

  •  come clean Hermy (0+ / 0-)

    No doubt about it, he did something that merited sexual harassment charges.  He got off easy though.

    Come clean Hermy.  Own up to what you did.  It's your fault after all.

    "The real wealth of a nation consists of the contributions of its people and nature." -- Rianne Eisler

    by noofsh on Wed Nov 02, 2011 at 04:40:39 AM PDT

  •  Ya know.... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    raincrow

    If I was in a jam over, I dunno, a sexual harrassment case, I sure would feel lots better to have a loony nutjob like Rand Paul or a misogynist racist like Rush Limbaugh having my back.  And the stellar Ann Coulter.  Whew, that'd make me feel really confident.
    Rand Paul, Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter - ugh, they're like characters right out of central casting, if you were looking for crazed townsfolk....

    I think, therefore I am........................... Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose AKA Engine Nighthawk - don't even ask!

    by Lilyvt on Wed Nov 02, 2011 at 05:21:11 AM PDT

    •  And yet Seneca Doane was wasting time on this (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      miserychick

      story yesterday, instead of going after the money story that may actually include broken laws.

      I guess most if not all men have misogynistic tendencies. Or they can help themselves if sex is involved.

      •  Most if not all men have misogynistic tendencies?? (0+ / 0-)

        Most if not all men [believe] they can help themselves if sex is involved?  

        Wow. That's some major league broad brushing.

        I'm sorry your life experiences have been so negative that you believe such a sweeping statement.

        •  should be 'can't help themselves' not 'can'. (0+ / 0-)

          Sorry for the typo, I don't know what most men believe. Just what I see them do.

          Isn't there a quote from Meteor Blades about that floating around in some Kossacks' sigs?

          •  I thought you meant "can help themselves" (0+ / 0-)

            as in "are entitled to take what they want"

            I've been thru more than my share of rape, and known a hefty number of woman-haters (male and female), but by far most of the men I've known are/were not misogynists or sexually abusive.

            •  you have a viable interpretation there. It wasn't (0+ / 0-)

              what I intended to write, but it has the same meaning.

              I'm just REALLY disappointed SD wasted the time and effort on such a piddly story, 'piddly' in the sense that Cain was put on notice and apparently appropriate laws were followed.

              Cain shenanigans are getting a lot more attention, but what about the actual illegalities in the alleged contribution story?

              •  Ya know.... (0+ / 0-)
                Cain shenanigans are getting a lot more attention, but what about the actual illegalities in the alleged contribution story?

                Were there contribution irregularities in the Cain campaign, yes, it appears there were.  Were there sexual harrassment charges against Cain, yes, it appears there were.  One is fairly dry and of interest to a few, the other is fairly randy and of prurient interest to many more.
                It remains to be seen which will be the one to end this campaign.  
                Maybe neither will.  
                Or.
                Perhaps there is even another skeleton out there.  How are Herman's tax records?
                And BTW....sexual harrassment (ie. Cain's shenanigans) is actually illegal, every bit as much as the campaign illegalities.

                I think, therefore I am........................... Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose AKA Engine Nighthawk - don't even ask!

                by Lilyvt on Wed Nov 02, 2011 at 08:20:56 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

  •  Andrea Mitchell just said "Jeb Bush" on MJ. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    raincrow

    The look on Joe's face said "Damn it Andrea.  You just let the cat out of the bag!" I think the feelers are out.  They are probably poll testing already.  Cain is toast.  Perry is toast.  Romney is unacceptable.

    I bet Jeb will ride in to the rescue. Maybe at the convention.

  •  It could have been worse (0+ / 0-)

    "Paula Jones agreed to drop her sexual harassment lawsuit against President Clinton on Nov. 13 in return for $850,000 – but no apology or admission of guilt from the president. "

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

    I'm not sure why we are attacking this idiot at all.  He would be much easier to beat than Romney.

  •  Cain was right when he "hoped it wasn't much" (0+ / 0-)

    You gotta love this guy and the conga line of apologists lining up behind him.

    Imagine Mitt Romney going home every night after a full day of prostituting himself for votes from the dunces who, even for a femptosecond, would consider the likes of Cain -- or Bachmann, Perry, or Frothy -- as a viable, even desirable, candidate. That has to make him want to jam a teaspoon in his ear and scoop out his brains just to dull the pain. After this campaign he needs to take up a pasttime that will restore his dignity -- perhaps a gig in a Juarez donkey show.

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