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FA-18 hornet
Even with a few less of these, we'll be all right.
Pentagon Budget: (.XLS file)

2011: $712.655 billion

With the failure of the Super Congress, the Pentagon is facing a $600 billion cut over 10 years, or $60 billion per year. That would be a $662.655 billion budget.

Republicans and Pentagon officials are freaking out, claiming the cuts would "cripple" the agency.

In 2007, the nation spent $603 billion on the Pentagon and the nation's wars. Adjust that for inflation, and the total is?

$669.41 billion

Was the nation's military crippled in 2007?

No?

Then they need to shut the f' up.

Originally posted to kos on Mon Nov 21, 2011 at 03:29 PM PST.

Also republished by Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Couldn't Germany and Italy defend themselves? (27+ / 0-)

    I realize Greece is threatening, but still.

    Just closing a few of the hundreds of pointless bases would save more than enough.

    A man, a plan, a canal, Panama

    by Karl Rover on Mon Nov 21, 2011 at 03:35:56 PM PST

    •  More to the point, the EU, provided (18+ / 0-)

      it doesn't fragment, includes two nuclear powers and some of the world's most advanced militaries. Who, precisely, would attack us and why? There's a distinct shortage of dictators with dreams of conquest at this time.*

      *In Europe. Asia has Lil' Kim.

      Iuris praecepta sunt haec: Honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere. - Ulpian, Digestae 1, 3

      by Dauphin on Mon Nov 21, 2011 at 03:39:03 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  start with cyberattacks. (4+ / 0-)

        We know the countries where these are coming from.  

        We know that some of them are too sophisticated for hacker gangs and are at a level where they are likely being carried out by nation-state actors.  

        And over the weekend it came to light that a Stuxnet-like attack burned out a pump in a municipal water supply system.  That was undoubtedly a test case for a bigger one yet to follow.

        Meanwhile along comes the so-called "smart" grid, with ever more intimate connections to the internet, and ever more and deeper levels of vulnerability.  

        Now strictly speaking it doesn't take expensive fighter jets to stop that sort of thing, it takes more & better cyberdefense and signals intelligence.  

        But none the less, we also burned out an awful lot of our military vehicles and aircraft in Iraq, which have to be replaced just to get us back to where we were before the Iraq war started.  (Thank you, GWB!)

        And let's not give those nasty Republicans any excuse for privatizing veterans' care.

        So if we're going to be making cuts in defense, we're going to have to be really really careful about how it's done, otherwise we will either be leaving ourselves vulnerable at one level or another, or screwing our servicemembers and veterans.  

        "Minus one vote for the Democrat" equals "plus one vote for the Republican." Arithmetic doesn't care about your feelings.

        by G2geek on Mon Nov 21, 2011 at 03:51:14 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  The cuts can be easily targeted. No problem. (8+ / 0-)

          Big money goes around the world. Big money give and take. Big money has the power of good. Big money make mistakes. Big money got a heavy hand. Big money take control. Big money got a mean streak. Big money got no soul. ~ Rush

          by Saint Jimmy on Mon Nov 21, 2011 at 03:56:17 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  No, they don't. (12+ / 0-)
          But none the less, we also burned out an awful lot of our military vehicles and aircraft in Iraq, which have to be replaced...

          "If I can't dance, then I don't want to be in your revolution"--Emma Goldman

          by ehrenfeucht games on Mon Nov 21, 2011 at 04:24:11 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Internet freedom under immediate assault. (5+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JayBat, G2geek, ChemBob, BusyinCA, divineorder

          Called the Commercial Felony Streaming Act, the House counterpart is HR 3261, The Stop Online Piracy Act.

          OpenCongress Summary

          Makes unauthorized web streaming of copyrighted content a felony with a possible penalty of up to 5 years in prison. Illegal streaming of copyrighted content is defined in the bill as an offense that "consists of 10 or more public performances by electronic means, during any 180-day period, of 1 or more copyrighted works" and has a total economic value, either to the copyright holder or the infringer, of at least $2,500.

          I also informed Occupy Burlington and #ows.

          Vermonters, our own Pat Leahy is sponsoring another killer bill in the senate, S. 978. This bill represents a major blow to openness and freedom on the Internet, free speech rights, and the fabric of the Internet itself. If the bill is allowed to pass, the Internet and free speech will never be the same again. There has been much damage done by his undoing of Glass-Steagull. This bill could be just as devastating to the internet because it could limit freedom of expression online. Please look into this bill, which will be voted on by the end of the month.

          Time for more phone calls to congress, visits to offices, LTEs and Occupations. The intertoobs need Occupying - by us.

          The ownership of this country knows the truth. It's called the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it. ~ #OWS sign

          by 4Freedom on Mon Nov 21, 2011 at 11:03:20 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  G2geek, this is high-order bullshit. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Cartoon Messiah, divineorder

          How many fucking water pumps burned out in in the United states in the last fucking week? Even if you believe that this particular one had anything to do with anyone's ill intentions. (Which I don't, BTW)

          Big fucking deal.

          This is all about making MIC CEO's, presidents, vice-presidents, excecutive vice presidents, group vice-presidents, etc., etc., etc., more able to afford their next yacht and vacation home.

          Fuck. This.

          President Dwight Eisenhower had it exactly right.

          -Jay-
          
          •  aggressive stupidity doesn't change facts. (0+ / 0-)

            Your denialism is just downright touching.  Just like those people who don't think humans can affect the climate.

            Here, go read:

            http://www.wired.com/...

            Don't worry about how you just embarrassed yourself, I think you're cute when you blush.  

            "Minus one vote for the Democrat" equals "plus one vote for the Republican." Arithmetic doesn't care about your feelings.

            by G2geek on Tue Nov 22, 2011 at 02:27:46 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Ummm, G2geek... (0+ / 0-)

              Hi, just got home from my Thanksgiving travels. Did you actually bother to read the Wired story you referenced?

              Or this in Technorati?

              Or this in the Washington Post?

              To me, it all sounds exactly like my first impression when I heard the story; some local Barney Fife of a network security guy gets all excited and starts fantasizing Ukranian (or Chinese, or North Korean) "cyber ninjas" around every corner.

              DHS says there's no there there, which must mean they couldn't find anything even vaguely suspicious, or they would be hyperventilating, too.

              The DOD and DHS budgets could both be cut in half with no loss of real national security.

              Like I said, Dwight Eisenhower was right.

              -Jay-
              
        •  George Bush's private wars (5+ / 0-)

          were always a welfare program for the rich. That's the new paradigm:

          1. spend trillions making shit.

          2. Find an excuse to blow that shit up.

          3. Spend trillions more making the same shit over again.

          4. Repeat from step 2 ad infinitem.

          (all the better of you can murder poor brown people in the process. Those brown people need not be foreigners, they can also be US soldiers -- who cares about brown people after all?).

          Remember the classic anti-communism trope the right loves to trot out, the Soviets failed because they would:

          1. Make steel bars

          2. Send those steel bars to ball-bearing factories to make ball bearings.

          3. Send the ball bearings to the steel factories to (go to step one).

          This was an example of how the Soviet Union was never going to succeed because they created "make work," and didn't have a real economy that made thing people wanted.

          How is this any different from the US economy at this point? One of our primary business is described in the exact same way as the failed Soviet model.

          Obviously the way our system is better is that ball bearings don't blow up, and don't murder brown people.

          Too many other primary US business also don't make anything anyone wants or needs, health "insurance" for example. Or only succeed because of massive government subsidies (oil, gas and nuclear).

          The US has become one massive soviet-tyle welfare state where the poor and middle classes subsidize the lavish lifestyles of the hyper rich.

          Also: what do the righties say when we want to decrease the size of the military industrial complex? "But you're cutting JOBS!!" Even THEY know the MIC is nothing more than a soviet-style make work program.

        •  Or maybe (3+ / 0-)

          we should realize that the've been given sooooooooo much money that they have no incentive to use the money wisely - or even find a way to track the money they do spend.  If they don't know where it's going, how do they know they actually need it?

          We could start with the $2.3 trillion that Rumsfeld admitted couldn't be accounted for— that's $8,000 for every man, woman and child in America.  (On 9/10/01 - before the pentagon's budget doubled.  I wonder what that number is now?).

          Or we can stop paying bonuses for work not done:

          For instance, contractors on the Joint Strike Fighter, a next-generation fighter jet, received their full bonus award of $494 million from 1999 to 2003, even though the program was $10 billion over budget and 11 months behind schedule.

          Contractors in the F-22A fighter jet program, over the same time period, received 91 percent of their performance bonus, or $849 million, even though the current phase of the program was $10 billion over budget and two years late.

          Or they could return to competitive bidding to prevent this:

          The new report on the wasted billions blames the problem on corruption, bribery and profiteering, amongst other factors, and comes out just as a new investigation from The Center for Public Integrity has revealed that defense spending on no-bid contracts has tripled in the last 10 years. The Pentagon now spends over $140 billion a year on no-bid contracts to private contractors like KBR, compared to $50 billion in 2001.

          And, speaking of corruption, bribery and profiteering:

          Federal investigators pursuing evidence of bid rigging, bribery, and kickbacks in Pentagon procurement are reviewing $6 billion worth of contracts to provide essential supplies to American troops in the Middle East, the New York Times reported  on Friday.

          That's double the $3 billion in contracts to provide essential supplies to American troops in Kuwait, Iraq, and Afghanistan—including food, water, and shelter—that the Pentagon had previously acknowledged were under review.

          Or we could go after sheer incompetence:

          At a time when spending cuts are at the heart of a heated political debate, the last thing the Pentagon needs is hundreds of millions in late fees.

          The enormous cost comes from shipping containers that simply havent been returned on time, mostly in use for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Changing terms and an unforeseeably long war have made the containers extremely expensive and hard to return without incurring extra costs. To this point approximately $720 million in fees have been incurred in addition to the initial cost of the containers.

          Congress has known about the problem for decades, and, to no avail, tried to make the DOD more accountable, but:

          In 1990, Congress enacted legislation requiring all federal agencies to pass independent audits. Every year, the Defense inspector general dispatched dozens of auditors to the military's financial and accounting centers. Every year, they reported back that the job couldn't be done. Defense Department records were in such disarray and were so lacking in documentation that any attempt would be futile. In 2000, the inspector general told Congress that his auditors stopped counting after finding $2.3 trillion in unsupported entries made to force financial data to agree.

          In 2002, Congress relented. Until the Pentagon can get its records in order, no comprehensive audit is required. Instead, the department writes each year to the inspector general certifying that "material amounts" in its financial reports can't be substantiated.

          That it can't be audited "goes to the heart of the department's credibility," says Dov Zakheim, who was Defense Department chief financial officer and comptroller under Rumsfeld. "Nobody would trust even a half-million-dollar enterprise if its books weren't clean."

          The Pentagon has repeatedly assured Congress that it is working toward an audit. Yet the projected date continues to slip further away. In 1995, Pentagon officials testified that it could be audited by 2000. In 2006, an audit wasn't envisioned until 2016.

          Without an audit, anecdotal evidence suggests, contractor fraud is likely to go undetected for years. Two South Carolina sisters who supplied small parts to the military bilked it of more than $20 million by charging wildly inflated shipping costs for low-priced items, like $998,798 for shipping two 19-cent washers to an Army base in Texas. The scheme lasted six years before they were caught in 2006

          Don't count on an audit any time soon, though:

          A new Government Accountability Office (GAO) audit found that new computer systems intended to improve the Pentagon’s financial oversight are themselves nearly $7 billion over budget and well behind schedule.

          and:
          The News & Observer notes that the Pentagon has 4,150 different systems, including 713 different human resources systems.

          But even with those measly efforts, you still have this:
          The G.A.O. found that financial sloppiness went beyond weapon systems. For instance, at a time when the Pentagon was buying new chemical suits for use in Iraq for $200 each, it was also selling them on the Internet for $3 each after some military units misidentified the suits as surplus. And about $1.2 billion in supplies that were shipped to Iraq never arrived — or were never found — because of logistical problems.

          A final word:

          As Winslow T. Wheeler of the Center for Defense Information, puts it:

          It’s not that DOD flunks audits, it’s that DOD’s books cannot be audited. DOD aspires for the position where it flunks an audit.”

          "I want a president that can make a difference, not a deal." -KHK

          by Bcre8ve on Tue Nov 22, 2011 at 05:34:06 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  I don't want Germany and Italy... (0+ / 0-)

      ...to have powerful militaries.

      Same goes for Japan.

      I am willing to pay more in taxes to keep the troops in Europe and to provide "assistance" in the Pacific.

      Better safe than sorry.

      That said, I can't see how going to 2007 levels is bad.

  •  It's not about the military being crippled, (35+ / 0-)

    silly. It's about spending ridiculous amounts of money, far more than is justified by military needs and industrial policy, on the military so draft-dodging politicians and the 101st Chairborne can feel like big bad alpha males.

    Iuris praecepta sunt haec: Honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere. - Ulpian, Digestae 1, 3

    by Dauphin on Mon Nov 21, 2011 at 03:36:45 PM PST

  •  Not to heckle ya but care to admit you were wrong? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jj32

    You did say in the wake of the summer debt deal that the defense cuts in the trigger would never be allowed to go through.  Today Obama says he will veto any effort to reverse them.

    Not trying to be a dick for the sake of it; you could have easily been proven correct.  But also, it might be worth remembering for the future that often the freakout about Obama's supposed caving and assertions about the dire consequences of it just don't end up proving true.

  •  Hmmm (5+ / 0-)

    Republicans and Pentagon officials are freaking out, claiming the cuts would "cripple" the agency.

    The Freaking-Outer-In-Chief at the Pentagon would be the Commander-in-Chief's appointee Defense Secretary Leon Pannetta.  Curious that Obama doesn't seem to find it worth telling his Secretary of Defense to shut the fuck up.

    And curious that you don't seem to find that worth a mention in your diary.  

    "All day long I felt like smashing my face in a clear glass window, but instead I went out and smashed up a phone booth round the corner." --Yoko Ono

    by notcaesar on Mon Nov 21, 2011 at 03:44:03 PM PST

  •  I read that Bowles-Simpson actually (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Lefty Coaster, statsone, Aquarius40, salmo

    calls for more defense cuts than the triggers.

  •  Math error (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Lefty Coaster, statsone, ColoTim, salmo, J M F

    712-60=652

    But hey, what's 10 billion plus or minus these days?

    "Go well through life"-Me (As far as I know)

    by MTmofo on Mon Nov 21, 2011 at 03:50:19 PM PST

  •  The Al Qaeda Navy Will Blockade Us nt (12+ / 0-)

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Mon Nov 21, 2011 at 03:55:53 PM PST

  •  It might be easier to get them to shut up... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JeffW, salmo

    than cut their budget, but we can always hope....

    and work harder to get "more and better Democrats, not necessarily in that order" elected in 2012.

    OK. And now we begin the part of the show where we pull out individual words and phrases of the commenter to try to determine the "real" meaning of the comment.... let the games begin.

    by hillbrook green on Mon Nov 21, 2011 at 03:58:20 PM PST

  •  We spend as much (14+ / 0-)

    on defense as the rest of the world combined. Given that the rest of the world is not attacking us, there is no possible justification for that.

    "A lie is not the other side of a story; it's just a lie."

    by happy camper on Mon Nov 21, 2011 at 04:08:35 PM PST

  •  I for one like your succinct logical messages. (11+ / 0-)

    Too often, writers spend too much time and detail explaining the obvious or worrying about what the status quo elitist beltway will think, not to mention the corrupt traditional media, to the extent that any forceful messaging is lost.

    As OWS and others have shown, the people are generally aware of many of the most critical problems that we face.  They are looking for action to change the course of the nation, not overly academic analyses or histories.  Just enough factual information to re-affirm their perceptions.

    What the people need to hear loud and clear and repeatedly is about the waste and corruption in the so-called defense spending, much of it having nothing but a nominal relationship to defense or security.

    These issues need to be brought to the table, front and center, along with the banks and corportatism.

    99%er. 100% opposed to fundamentalist/neoconservative/neoliberal oligarchs.

    by blueoasis on Mon Nov 21, 2011 at 04:11:55 PM PST

  •  Hey Kos, don't blame Panetta, he's just doing (4+ / 0-)

    his job! /snark


    Doing his job for the 1% , that is:

    NEVER thought I would say this, but I miss Robert Gates.
     

    •  And, much as I dislike Panetta's song and dance, (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      divineorder

      and never expected to rise to his defense, Panetta only took over the DoD on July1, 2011, not quite 5 mos. ago. The hideous mess at the DoD in NOT Panetta's mess. He can only make it better or worse, but not in 5 months.

      Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from a religious conviction. -- Blaise Pascal

      by RJDixon74135 on Tue Nov 22, 2011 at 01:55:31 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Were you able to watch the videos? It took (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Knucklehead

        Panetta very little time to become the head cheerleader for the War Profiteers.  

        So you disagree with Kos' post?

        Though Kos did not mention him by name, a survey of news reports will show that Panetta is the main one spewing the talking points about how cuts will affect security that Kos is writing about.  There are Republicans doing it as well, but Panetta's testimony at Congressional hearings as a representative of the Obama Administration seems in conflict with  the President's statements calling for cuts. Sure, Republicans are doing this as well, but Pantetta's doing it is the most disturbing and calls into question whether Obama has at all been serious in calling for cuts.

        You are absolutely correct in this:

        The hideous mess at the DoD in NOT Panetta's mess. He can only make it better or worse

        He absolutely can make it worse by publicity stunts like hopping on all these experimental and war zone planes with embedded press covering his antics during this time of budget decision making.

        What's happening here is   perception management and the Pentagon/contractor industrial complex has it down to a science:

        The phrase "perception management" has often functioned as a euphemism for "an aspect of information warfare." A scholar in the field notes a distinction between "perception management" and public diplomacy, which "does not, as a rule, involve falsehood and deception, whereas these are important ingredients of perception management; the purpose is to get the other side to believe what one wishes it to believe, whatever the truth may be."[4] The phrase "perception management" is filtering into common use as a synonym for "persuasion." Public relations firms now offer "perception management" as one of their services. Similarly, public officials who are being accused of shading the truth are now frequently charged with engaging in "perception management" when disseminating information to media or to the general public.

        Although perception management operations are typically carried out within the international arena between governments, and between governments and citizens, use of perception management techniques have become part of mainstream information management systems in many ways that do not concern military campaigns or government relations with citizenry. Businesses may even contract with other businesses to conduct perception management for them, or they may conduct it in-house with their public relations staff.

        As Stan Moore has written, "Just because truth has been omitted, does not mean that truth is not true. Just because reality has not been perceived, does not mean that it is not real."[citation needed]

        Kos is right shed light on this.  So much is going on out of public view, and will continue to as long as we let it go unquestioned.

        Photobucket

  •  Just confiscate the nice shiny war machinery (6+ / 0-)

    our taxes already bought for the Halliburton Hessians and Blackwater Bullies.  

    Don't want these weapons to come stateside in the hands of privateers willing to serve 1% warlords for a price.

    Stop training foreign militaries (called standing up their army.)  We train/supply them this decade and must fight them a decade or so later.  Kinda stupid.

    Close our torture school in Georgia.   Maybe convert it to a facility to care for the mental problems we created in our troops taught to torture and/or their victims.

     

    De fund + de bunk = de EXIT--->>>>>

    by Neon Mama on Mon Nov 21, 2011 at 06:55:04 PM PST

  •  DoD bud since WW2 20 TRILLION. Canada 600 bill (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    salmo, Cartoon Messiah

    that's 20 trillion since 1946

    80 % of success is JUST SHOWING UP! Tin Soldiers & Nixon's Coming, We're Finally on our own...

    by Churchill on Mon Nov 21, 2011 at 08:03:13 PM PST

  •  f'n a! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    divineorder

    hahaaaa

    Ugh. --UB.

    "Daddy, every time a bell rings, a Libertaria­n picks up his Pan Am tickets for the Libertaria­n Paradise of East Somalia!"

    by unclebucky on Mon Nov 21, 2011 at 08:04:24 PM PST

  •  The first place that the Pentagon is going to cut (11+ / 0-)

    in order to implement the reduction will be in the pay and benefits of our service members and their families.  Retirement cuts are coming as well as cuts to existing benefits of current retirees.

    The last place that the Pentagon will look for cuts will be in the deep pockets of the war profiteers that they call contractors.

    There is nobody in this country who got rich on his own. Nobody. - Elizabeth Warren

    by Susan Grigsby on Mon Nov 21, 2011 at 08:04:25 PM PST

  •  A Surgeon General is fired for suggesting (6+ / 0-)

    masturbation, but a Secretary of Defense still has a job  for proclaiming we're all going to die if a dime is cut from the DOD budget and he proclaims this without his own audit/detailed top down review just by walking in the door.

  •  I wish Forrest Gump was here in this diary to moon (3+ / 0-)

    the industrial military complex.

    "There's nothing in the dark that's not there when the lights are on" ~ Rod Serling

    by jwinIL14 on Mon Nov 21, 2011 at 08:07:00 PM PST

  •  DoD Budget 1948-2009 19 TRILLION plus (3+ / 0-)

    Table 4. Budget Authority for National Defense, FY 1948-2009
    (in billions of constant FY09 dollars; includes war & nuclear funding)Fiscal Year Funding Fiscal Year Funding Fiscal Year Funding
    1948 $171 1969 $497 1990 $492
    1949 $160 1970 $454 1991 $447
    1950 $181 1971 $411 1992 $443
    1951 $460 1972 $398 1993 $416
    1952 $604 1973 $378 1994 $383
    1953 $504 1974 $362 1995 $381
    1954 $385 1975 $352 1996 $371
    1955 $343 1976 $357 1997 $367
    1956 $347 1977 $383 1998 $358
    1957 $363 1978 $377 1999 $375
    1958 $361 1979 $378 2000 $387
    1959 $376 1980 $385 2001 $426
    1960 $364 1981 $428 2002 $448
    1961 $366 1982 $470 2003 $547
    1962 $416 1983 $502 2004 $570
    1963 $418 1984 $522 2005 $565
    1964 $404 1985 $557 2006 $605
    1965 $390 1986 $536 2007 $660
    1966 $458 1987 $519 2008 $709
    1967 $510 1988 $508 2009 $687
    1968 $513 1989 $502  

    80 % of success is JUST SHOWING UP! Tin Soldiers & Nixon's Coming, We're Finally on our own...

    by Churchill on Mon Nov 21, 2011 at 08:08:54 PM PST

  •  Chalmers Johnson LearJets 71, Gulfstreams 5 (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    salmo, Cartoon Messiah, divineorder

    Cessna Citations about 8, used to ferry Generals and Admirals to ferry them to the Bavarian Alps.  These are personal jets with passenger capacity from 8-18

    80 % of success is JUST SHOWING UP! Tin Soldiers & Nixon's Coming, We're Finally on our own...

    by Churchill on Mon Nov 21, 2011 at 08:11:05 PM PST

  •  add up the DEA, CIA, INS (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ColoTim, salmo, divineorder

    and whatever else I missed, the MIC is doing just fine ...what is a few billion ..

    Proud Socialist Whore.

    by Muggsy on Mon Nov 21, 2011 at 08:11:18 PM PST

  •  They know the show's coming to an end pretty soon (3+ / 0-)

    and they are trying to get every last drop they can before the crash.

    "... the Professional Left, that is simultaneously totally irrelevant and ruining everything" (Glenn Greenwald)

    by ranger995 on Mon Nov 21, 2011 at 08:13:49 PM PST

  •  But Penetta is the one pushing this republican (5+ / 0-)

    Meme, maybe Penetta too should shut the F-up.

  •  No, but Panetta wants to be the next Chris Dodd (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RJDixon74135, divineorder

    Or Robert Rubin. He is lying and he knows it. When did honor become a mark of shame in politics, and screwing over the public you serve one of pride?

    "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

    by kovie on Mon Nov 21, 2011 at 08:22:04 PM PST

  •  I'm confused (0+ / 0-)
    2011: $712.655 billion

    With the failure of the Super Congress, the Pentagon is facing a $600 billion cut over 10 years, or $60 billion per year. That would be a $662.655 billion budget.

    Wouldn't that be just for next year? If the argument is that the Pentagon wouldn't be crippled, it's true for next year, but 10 years from now is a whole different ball of wax. All arguments about the effectiveness of the defense budget aside, let's say the Pentagon has a budget of $112.655 billion in 2021. That is a pretty damn quick deflation in size of the military-industrial complex.

    Just to clarify that I am not a fan of the size of the defense budget; I am genuinely confused about the argument kos is trying to make here.

    •  yeah... (0+ / 0-)

      How do you get a 60 billion dollar reduction when your budget is not even decided yet? 60 billion dollar cut from what? I am confused too! Every year the budget gets increased, do you set the amount 60 billion higher than the proposed budget and then take your 60 billion cut?
      sweet, but i don't think so. How does this work?

  •  Cuts equals jobs. Think they'll cut upper (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ColoTim

    management salaries to get to 60 billion?  Think again. Overseas bases we don't need? Sure maybe a few. They'll cut weapon systems which means jobs.  Remember, this isn't money that will be shifted over to infrastructure or green jobs.  This will be money cut period and that means jobs.  Yeah we win!

    Rick Perry is George Bush without brains.

    by thestructureguy on Mon Nov 21, 2011 at 08:32:37 PM PST

  •  Cut 1- 1Tril. F-35. final assembly Dallas Texas (4+ / 0-)

    Perry country  Program was worth 1.8 til, its already rinning so the cut would be less than 1.8.

    Which will the repugs sell first, their rich gravy train millionaires or their voters who build the products the military uses.

    Popcorn popping right now.

  •  The minute a democratic (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JayBat, RJDixon74135, divineorder

    administration takes over, all the military planes fall out of the sky, the ships sink, the submarines crash into the bottom of the ocean, and any equipment on land disentegrates.

    That's what always happens to the military when the dems take over.  

    The banks have a stranglehold on the political process. Mike Whitney

    by dfarrah on Mon Nov 21, 2011 at 08:46:19 PM PST

  •  Visualize the budget (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ehrenfeucht games, divineorder

    With Death and Taxes 2012

    So what is this thing?

    "Death and Taxes" is a large representational graph and poster of the federal budget. It contains over 500 programs and departments and almost every program that receives over 200 million dollars annually. The data is straight from the president's 2012 budget request and will be debated, amended, and approved by Congress to begin the fiscal year. All of the item circles are proportional in size to their funding levels for visual comparison and the percentage change from both 2012 and 2002 is included so you can spot trends.

    I get one every year.

    "Nonviolent in the face of police brutality." Scott Olsen's email signature

    by BOHICA on Mon Nov 21, 2011 at 08:57:50 PM PST

  •  This post is short, sweet and right on the nose! (0+ / 0-)

    'Nuff said.

  •  yes, that is less than a 10% annual cut (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    divineorder

    what the hell is wrong with Leon Panetta?

  •  If nothing else this is truly amusing. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Cartoon Messiah

    Do you really think anything concerning the military establishment and the defense contract gravy train is going to change???? If you do you are just as mislead as if you were a Fox News watcher and more misinformed than a Fox News contributor.

    The military spends more in 5 minutes than all of us will make in 50 years. They could cut the Military by 50% and we would still be larger than any other country.

    Simply amazing or should I say amusing...

  •  The numbers are never really going to get cut- (0+ / 0-)

    Panetta is just forcing one side of the republican party to make a choice, the tea party side wants cuts, the repugs have to decide what they believe in. Which side of the party are they going to fly the flag for. The side who wants no government, the tea party, who wants to cut defense but wants no taxes or tax increases. Or will the moderate repugs be the ones to step up and take the cover Panetta offers, and who are more ready to accept tax increases on the billionaire free loaders.who don't want to help the country. Moderates are one side , but the tea party seems to have the most influence on the rest of the GOP. Moderates are starting to come around to tax increases, whose flag are the repugs going to fly. All Panetta is doing is offering moderates a bit of cover, will the moderates step forward and deal, and the tea party loose its grip on the repug party..

  •  Hey Markos it's expensive to start new wars and (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    divineorder

    shit.  Ever priced a drone, huh?

    Under Ike we had 91% marginal tax rates and nobody called him as Socialist. - Robert Reich

    by lastman on Mon Nov 21, 2011 at 09:35:20 PM PST

    •  Actually... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lastman

      Drones are CHEAP.

      For example, the engine used in the Predator only costs about 25 grand, frinstence, about the same as a new 200 hp light aircraft engine, rather than a million bux for a jet fighter engine...

      (Actually, I wonder how bad we're getting screwed on the Predator engines--a 100 hp Rotax 914 costs about 18 grand at the Airplane Engine Store, and the Rotax in the Predator is similar with a turbocharger added for high-altitude use.  Wouldn't surprise me at all to find that General Atomics is billing us some ridiculous outrageous price for the commercially available engine.)

      "Ronald Reagan is DEAD! His policies live on but we're doing something about THAT!"

      by leftykook on Mon Nov 21, 2011 at 11:47:03 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yeah, but what about the technology to fly (0+ / 0-)

        those drones remotely and bomb brown people remotely?

        That's spensive, amirite?

        Under Ike we had 91% marginal tax rates and nobody called him as Socialist. - Robert Reich

        by lastman on Tue Nov 22, 2011 at 02:04:43 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Misuse of any weapon is costly (0+ / 0-)

          If "brown people" are actively engaged in violence directed at our country, they are as eligible to be stopped by use of force as are people of any color.

          Your comment has merit but couching the use of force by the US Government as racist in its' very nature is a fallacy.

          We must certainly have the conversation about what constitutes a justified use of deadly force.

          "Ronald Reagan is DEAD! His policies live on but we're doing something about THAT!"

          by leftykook on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 10:54:07 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Our military adjusts to our foreign policy (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Cartoon Messiah

    decisions.

    If we want to be the world's cop, we will spend ourselves into oblivion and waste the lives of countless men and women for nothing.

    If we want to be responsible members of the world community, relying on fair conduct in trade and diplomacy, we don't need the bullying influence of an outsized military.

    Excess military capacity yearns for a reason to justify itself.  Cut it back and we will see more nuanced approaches to resolving world conflict.

    In any case, our existence will never be threatened with the nuclear resources on hand.

    •  Well, it will be threatened, but not by the use (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RJDixon74135

      of nuclear weapons by the countries that have them.  We are currently threatened by the potential for loose nukes being procured by terrorists either on the black market or by sympathetic types in government.  That won't get people even a single delivery system like a missile - it would only get them the weapon which they'd have to sneak into the US like they have done in various movies and books.

      All of our fancy stealth airplanes, submarines and aircraft carriers aren't the type of defense we need for that, and yet that's precisely where a lot of money is being spent instead of for more port security, scanners and better training protecting our borders (I'm not including immigrants here, just hardware, since this was a post on nuclear threats).

  •  The word is FUCK Kos (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    divineorder

    They need to SHUT THE FUCK UP!

    "The Internet is the Public Square of the 21st Century"- Sen. Al Franken

    by Kdoug on Mon Nov 21, 2011 at 10:42:19 PM PST

  •  but....but .... that calculation... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Cartoon Messiah

    of inflation is only allowed to be used when calculating cost of living adjustments for social security recipients! for all other stuff, you've got to use a much bigger number.

  •  US military budget greater than whole world (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    leftykook, Cartoon Messiah

    The US military budget is the GOP's perennial stimulus package and spending supported by taxpayers money since the its tradition began with Ronald RINO Reagan.  

    It is so ridiculously high and so exorbitant that it constitutes  58% of the military budgets of all the countries of the world put together.  

  •  Do we REALLY need 11 Carrier Strike Groups? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Cartoon Messiah

    ...Each consisting of a carrier, a cruiser, a couple of frigates, a couple of destroyers, a couple of oiler/supply ships, a submarine or two, maybe as much as an hundred aircraft and about 10,000 sailors and officers!

    Currently we have 11 of these Strike Groups, 5 on each coast and one based permanently at Yokosuka Naval Base in Japan.

    One reason to have so many is that the sailors just can't spend their whole life at sea; the question I have is how much can the Navy reduce this force without driving the sailors crazy or compromising it's capabilities.  The stupendous cost of just ONE of these Strike Groups would make a national defense budget for a lot of countries in the world!

    "Ronald Reagan is DEAD! His policies live on but we're doing something about THAT!"

    by leftykook on Mon Nov 21, 2011 at 11:59:50 PM PST

  •  A chicken in every pot... (5+ / 0-)

    As I always say:  A chicken in every pot and a fighter jet in every garage.   Meanwhile I read a report that 38 million people die every year across the world from hunger.  How about we load up them planes with food bombs.  Make friends not enemies.  Make love not war.

    Guess I'm just a grubby, dirty, old hippy huh?  

    General Strike WA--Occupy the Legislature, Monday Nov 28--Olympia. Union Supported--10,000 expected to be here. Stop the cuts until the corporations pay their share. www.OccupyOlympia.org

    by YellerDog on Tue Nov 22, 2011 at 12:34:43 AM PST

  •  It's over double the Vietnam war peak (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Cartoon Messiah, divineorder

    That's adjusting for inflation

    http://en.wikipedia.org/...

    "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is." - George W Bush

    by jfern on Tue Nov 22, 2011 at 02:13:34 AM PST

  •  Perhaps they will understand things better... (0+ / 0-)

    If we use Oreos to explain.

    This is kind of old.... but it does get the point across.

  •  What's More (0+ / 0-)

    Al Qaeda was on the loose in 2007, and the Iraq War was still raging.  Now we are out of Iraq, and Al Qaeda has been squashed.

  •  Leave military contractors aloooooooone! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Cartoon Messiah
  •  cut the military (0+ / 0-)

    by at least 25%.  Bring all the troops home from Afghanistan and start shutting down overseas bases.  I am tired of my tax dollars being used to protect multinational corporations.  Let them hire their own blackwater goons.

    "The real wealth of a nation consists of the contributions of its people and nature." -- Rianne Eisler

    by noofsh on Tue Nov 22, 2011 at 04:12:23 AM PST

  •  Effect / Cause (0+ / 0-)

    First, their going to cut veterans health benefits . See how much play that gets. You'll hear as much about that as you do my  jerking off schedule .
    SECOND a company like GE that owns a media empire , profits heavily from Iraq (the rebuild) and supplying the military with $100 non working lightbulbs WHAT DO YOU THINK THEIR GOING TO FOCUS ON !!! All those 'VOice of the true liberal' TV show hosts will be out complaining . NOT FOR THE VETERANS, but for their corporate masters losing money. The media will play up even a $1 cut, because the parent company could lose that dollar.
    Third - budget constraints make it more difficult for generals and higher ups at the pentagon to give out less and thusly possibly lose their huge salary jobs after they retire from their 'service'.

    you can't remain neutral on a moving train

    by rmfcjr on Tue Nov 22, 2011 at 05:39:46 AM PST

  •  And we are TWO wars!! I think we can do with just (0+ / 0-)

    a little less cash for the military.

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