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OWS - Pew
New polling from Pew shows that a plurality of Americans still support the Occupy Wall Street movement. In fact, support has grown since Occupy's mid-October media peak:

Pew (PDF). 12/7-11. Adults (10/20-23 results)

Q. From what you’ve read and heard about the Occupy Wall Street movement involving demonstrations in cities around the country, do you strongly support, somewhat support, somewhat oppose, or strongly oppose the Occupy Wall Street Movement?

Support strongly: 15 (16)
Support somewhat: 29 (23)
Oppose somewhat: 16 (19)
Oppose strongly: 19 (16)

Perhaps the main reason for the continuing, and growing, support of the movement is that Americans overwhelmingly agree with its core concerns. By wide margins, people believe that "there is too much power in the hands of a few rich people and large corporations," that "the economic system in this country unfairly favors the wealthy," and that Wall Street hurts the economy more than it helps:

Roughly three-quarters of the public (77%) say that they think there is too much power in the hands of a few rich people and large corporations in the United States. In a 1941 Gallup poll, six-in-ten (60%) Americans expressed this view. About nine-in-ten (91%) Democrats and eight-in-ten (80%) of independents assert that power is too concentrated among the rich and large corporations, but this view is shared by a much narrower majority (53%) of Republicans.

Reflecting a parallel sentiment, 61% of Americans now say the economic system in this country unfairly favors the wealthy and just 36% say the system is generally fair to most Americans. About three-quarters (76%) of Democrats and 61% of independents say the economic system is tilted in favor of the wealthy; a majority (58%) of Republicans say that the system is generally fair to most Americans.

The public also views Wall Street negatively, little changed from opinions in March. Currently, just 36% say Wall Street helps the American economy more than it hurts—51% say it hurts more than helps. Majorities of both Democrats (60%) and independents (54%) say Wall Street hurts more than helps, while nearly half of Republicans say Wall Street helps the economy (49%).

Meanwhile, the public really doesn't like Congress, especially Republicans:

Public discontent with Congress has reached record levels, and the implications for incumbents in next year’s elections could be stark. Two-in-three voters say most members of Congress should be voted out of office in 2012 – the highest on record. And the number who say their own member should be replaced matches the all-time high recorded in 2010, when fully 58 members of Congress lost reelection bids – the most in any election since 1948.

The Republican Party is taking more of the blame than the Democrats for a do-nothing Congress. A record-high 50% say that the current Congress has accomplished less than other recent Congresses, and by nearly two-to-one (40% to 23%) more blame Republican leaders than Democratic leaders for this. By wide margins, the GOP is seen as the party that is more extreme in its positions, less willing to work with the other side to get things done, and less honest and ethical in the way it governs. And for the first time in over two years, the Democratic Party has gained the edge as the party better able to manage the federal government.

Whether they wanted to or not, one accomplishment of Occupy Wall Street has been to open the door for Democrats to retake Congress using a populist economic message. It remains to be seen if Democrats will seize the opportunity they have been given.

Originally posted to Chris Bowers on Thu Dec 15, 2011 at 09:57 AM PST.

Also republished by Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  this core message must transcend encampments (18+ / 0-)

    and occupy hearts and minds as well regardless of race and class

    Perhaps the main reason for the continuing, and growing, support of the movement is that Americans overwhelmingly agree with its core concerns. By wide margins, people believe that "there is too much power in the hands of a few rich people and large corporations," that "the economic system in this country unfairly favors the wealthy," and that Wall Street hurts the economy more than it helps:

    Präsidentenelf-maßschach; Warning-Some Snark Above"Nous sommes un groupuscule" (-9.50; -7.03) "Sciant terra viam monstrare."

    by annieli on Thu Dec 15, 2011 at 10:06:28 AM PST

    •  its time for occupy to do a little (11+ / 0-)

      person-to-person "recruitment" in the form of standing directly with regular people. the occupy homes is a great way to bring people into the movement, especially if they can help start the process of stopping foreclosures.

      wage issues, food issues and other direct ways of connecting with the 99% and bringing attention to their (our) situations is critical. I hope OWS keeps its feet on the ground over the winter season and does get to "esoteric" and "abstract" in its activities.

      I've become re-radicalized. Thanks a lot you bunch of oligarchical fascist sons-of-bitches. But once again, I have no choice. Bring it the fuck on.

      by mdmslle on Thu Dec 15, 2011 at 10:28:44 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  as one who has traveled to 17 Occupy's - I most (7+ / 0-)

        certainly concur mdmslle ----- we do need more focus.

        What amazes me is that everyone does NOT get it;
        the way to win - is to do Winning Strategies.

        I have restrained myself from the "radical" - despite the fact that our case provides proof of Federal Corruption, Goldman Sachs, Bain and Romney crimes and has murder/ mayhem too.

        Even though Romney and Sachs, with their nefarious hordes are assaulting the Constitution of the United States and rogue federal personnel are BETRAYING their public oaths to defend us against enemies foreign and DOMESTIC - I remain civil.

        I have the right to defend our Constitution against these Organzied Criminal Empires

        AT ALL COSTS

        But not yet - for though I am at risk that Romney's camp will put me down - if he gets the GOP nodd - it serves us all better to be civil and spread the word.

        There is the secret - I tell my story last and Yours 1st.
        Then people pay attention.

        Meryl Lanson and her husband both 65 and 75 suffering from cancer - but still fighting federal corruption in Florida

        Mary Alice Gwynn - fighting corruption in the courts in FL
        and then getting Disbarred for doing so.

        Mark Adams Esquire fighting election Fraud and getting Disbarred for doing so.

        Bankruptcy Misconduct Dot Com - telling all our stories after he received death threats from his own attorney.

        Crystal Cox telling the blogging world about all our stories and getting a $2.5 million judgment against her to benefit one of the bad faith attorneys.

        Stories like Kelly Thomas being beat to death by Police
        Just because he felt like doing so - and the SOB boasted!

        We need to pick stories that are true - give proof positive of crimes against us - that are not be prosecuted

        Due to Color of Law.

        Woe is the day.
        When we - the 99%
        Accept the premise
        that the Law
        Does NOT APPLY!

        Verbal repetitive reinforced Bull S; is MSM weapon of mass destruction!

        by laserhaas on Thu Dec 15, 2011 at 03:26:27 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Concur - annieli --------------n/t (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mdmslle, annieli

      Verbal repetitive reinforced Bull S; is MSM weapon of mass destruction!

      by laserhaas on Thu Dec 15, 2011 at 03:15:31 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Translating "I've Had It" to "Let's Change It" (0+ / 0-)

      Getting supporters and others empathetic to the core message of continued inequality to become voters that will boot out those in authority that are complicit and have harmed the 99% needs to become a stronger part of their agenda.

      The Democratic party needs to utilize the energy and message to get new voters. This is not to co-opt Occupy in any way, but the translate their trailblazing bravery into an activity that can get the elected authority changed. I'm not talking about just booting out Republicans. There are plenty of Demo. pols who have been 1% lackeys. And this needs to happen at ALL levels of our government. Cities, school boards, counties, states and our national congressional venues.

      Leaving the Fox-news - Limbaugh ditto-heads aside, there are plenty of folks in the Republican party who are part of the 99%, but just can't put it together that their party has co-opted their interests. They need to be recruited, too. Even if it's under they guise of a Libertarian banner.

      There IS a class war going on and many in the 99% camp don't realize it enough to marshall their political muscle to do anything about that.

      The Occupy movement has put a new energy into the conversation about economic equality and that needs to be inspire all of us to do more.

  •  Not all good news there (9+ / 0-)

    A clear and overwhelming majority disagree with the tactics. And yet Occupiers always approach any advice to get better organized as some sort of attempt to "co-opt" them.

    •  yeah at this point I'm not altogther on board with (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ddn, Kimball Cross

      their tactics either. And I'm in the "strongly support" camp. And have been since day one.

      I fear the movement becoming too rigid to grow. bound and determined to do things the way they planned to when there were basically 300 people in a park in NYC. When some flexibility is necessary for a national movement. The support and sympathy with the message is there (77% is an incredible number). To be too rigid to harness that effectively into action that could literally save this DYING COUNTRY would be a very sad wasted opportunity.

      I've become re-radicalized. Thanks a lot you bunch of oligarchical fascist sons-of-bitches. But once again, I have no choice. Bring it the fuck on.

      by mdmslle on Thu Dec 15, 2011 at 10:31:54 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Not all of us ddn - an attorney (Pete) quit his (0+ / 0-)

      elected position in Los Angeles

      and he has formed an organied effort we support


      Myself and others are traveling around to various camps - building coalitions and strategies.

      We are also infected with others who have selfish agendas
      and they build up crowds to defeat our good faith message

      But the Truth usually prevails and we must keep trying.

      Have faith - OccupyWS constantly does great things
      and we did a lot of press here in Los Angeles.

      The movement does continue.

      Verbal repetitive reinforced Bull S; is MSM weapon of mass destruction!

      by laserhaas on Thu Dec 15, 2011 at 03:30:53 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  whenever I try to dispute tactics here I'm either (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      a concern troll or a police sympathizer or a republican.

    •  Who cares if people support their tactics? (5+ / 0-)

      OWS is a message machine, and their message is about income inequality and the financial sector's influence over government.

      They aren't trying to get elected.

      They aren't trying to make a point about protest tactics.

      They aren't trying to make themselves popular.

      They are trying to spread a message and get people thinking on their terms, and they're succeeding.

      Art is the handmaid of human good.

      by joe from Lowell on Thu Dec 15, 2011 at 05:04:46 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  but at some point, in order for change to happen (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        joe from Lowell, askew

        we're going to need those 77% of people to actively participate in some way.

        This is why it's GOOD that they agree with OWS message, but BAD that the tactics are viewed unfavorably.

        Because 20,000 people cannot force the change that we'll need to keep this country from collapsing. But 200 million (which is actually LESS than 77% of the population) is a different story. HOW CAN WE GET 200 million americans demanding change? We won't have 200 million people in park. We won't have 200 million people marching in front of NY Stock Exchange.

        At some point, people are going to need to transfer their sympathy for the movement toward action. And if they are not able to "see themselves" participating in the way that is being put forth, the movement will be stilted by that. It cannot grow in the way that will be necessary to get our government scared of US instead of people being scared of our govt.

        I've become re-radicalized. Thanks a lot you bunch of oligarchical fascist sons-of-bitches. But once again, I have no choice. Bring it the fuck on.

        by mdmslle on Thu Dec 15, 2011 at 05:16:18 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  What 200 million people need to do... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          has nothing to do with OWS tactics.

          200 million people need to vote in each election with a mind informed by OWS' message.

          200 million people need to look around their communities and understand how they've been effected by the power of the top 1%.

          200 million people don't need to be part of, or even aligned with, the OWS movement.

          Art is the handmaid of human good.

          by joe from Lowell on Thu Dec 15, 2011 at 05:46:34 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  These numbers are not as bad as you think (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DawnN, wsexson, alizard

      The fact is that the tactics of ALL successful social movements were unpopular in their day.  The woman's suffrage movement, the civil rights movement, the labor movement, the anti-war movement, all of them would have had bad poll numbers in their time.  That does not mean their tactics were not effective.  The status quo always polls much better than direct action does, but that does not mean the status quo would be more effective than direct action.

    •  True. But at the risk of playing the blame game (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Chitown Kev

      ... I blame the successful campaign by the media to overcome the harsh crackdown and paint OWS with the old saws of unruly, unkempt, ie dirty f*ing hippies.

      No one said this would be easy, and our collective success has been astounding. go us.

      •  That's why I like the Occupy events.... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        ....rather than the encampments.  I believe Occupy can sustain the same public interest with continuous events.  The object of the encampments wasn't just to camp out, but to enable a continuous protest against the dominance of the 1%.  They can achieve a virtual encampment of the media through an ongoing, continuous series of events.  Same result through better tactics.

        I love virtualization.  It's a nifty concept from OS memory management that can have real-world relevance.  If you can't do one thing, link a series of other things together to get the same effect as the first thing (see virtual memory or this ).  Cops cracking down on encampments, create virtual encampments inside the media through continual individual events.

        "To know what is right and to do it are two different things." - Chushingura, a tale of The Forty-Seven Ronin "It was like that when I got here." - Homer Simpson

        by rbird on Thu Dec 15, 2011 at 05:48:47 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  However, as I and others have pointed out (12+ / 0-)

    the tactics of OWS are losing support -- this poll shows 49% disapprove and only 29% approve.  

    It appears to me that in the last month or so especially, the tactics have been all about whether people have the right to have encampments in public parks.  Most people, I think, while they would support the message, don't support the intractable position that a group has the right to turn a public park into their own living space.  

    As I've said, when it's about "Move your money," that's brilliant -- the tactic dovetails with the message, and the action is intended to benefit the public at large, either by having them move to a more favorable banking situation or by pressuring banks to drop fees.  

    However, I don't think a majority of people support having the OWS encampments in public parks in the middle of cities on a long-term basis.  When the focus is on that, the impact of the message tends to diminish.

    I understand that this view will open me up to attack by those who tolerate no criticism of the OWS movement.

    •  Amen (5+ / 0-)

      That was the story of last November. Many of us said the same thing, and all we got in reply was a bunch of defensive responses that the Occupiers could stay out all winter come hell or high water.

      Saul Alinsky would shake his head. You need to have sustainable action.

    •  Occupying the Park (5+ / 0-)

      in New York was absolutely necessary, and they were right to fight to stay there.  The park has a direct connection to the target of the protest.

      In some cities that nexus has been less apparent, to the movement's determinent.  That should be the standard - to the extent they are engaging in civil disobedience they should make sure there is an clear connection to Wall Street.

      The bitter truth of deep inequality has been disguised by an era of cheap imported goods and the anyone-can-make-it celebrity myth - Polly Toynbee

      by fladem on Thu Dec 15, 2011 at 10:25:40 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Agree 100% (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      you're very right and I've said so myself too.

      I'm hoping some examination of strategy will take place. Right now, I've sort of moved my effort and energy from OWS to the getmoneyout movement, which I think dovetails nicely with the overall theme of OWS: money in politics is destroying everything. This is a somewhat bipartisan coalition of folks who recognize that the cards are stacked against the majority (and democracy) because of the money and bribery.

      they're just starting to get amped up and I'm hoping they can get some traction. Co-opting OWS notwithstanding.

      I've become re-radicalized. Thanks a lot you bunch of oligarchical fascist sons-of-bitches. But once again, I have no choice. Bring it the fuck on.

      by mdmslle on Thu Dec 15, 2011 at 10:36:31 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Support is growing (7+ / 0-)

      Public protest takes many Americans outside their comfort zone.  It's a transitory reaction, one that will grow into support over time.  The general public fights accepting the idea that their government is no longer responsive to them.

      The more they see the protests, the victimization of the protestors and the relevance of the issues they're raising, the more the public will understand.

      "I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one."

      by Betty Pinson on Thu Dec 15, 2011 at 05:37:00 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Sadly, the ability of the current Dems to (4+ / 0-)

    "snatch defeat from the jaws of victory" is huge, and their only known ability.

    May you live in interesting times--Chinese curse

    by oldcrow on Thu Dec 15, 2011 at 10:16:34 AM PST

  •  time to rethink tactics then.. (4+ / 0-)

    Interesting poll. I'm not surprised, although I feel the police have been far to violent towards the encampments, your average American supports law enforcement. Time to rethink strategy for the spring awakening!

    •  Can you name me an effective social movement... (7+ / 0-)

      Whose tactics would have polled well?  Sometimes they may poll well years after the fact, but they usually are unpopular at the time they are used.  Martin Luther King and Rosa Parks were not exactly praised for their tactics by the public at large until years after their actions, they were extremely unpopular in their day.  Tactics that bring about real change generally don't poll well, but that does not mean they are not effective.

      •  BUT (0+ / 0-)

        the civil rights movement wasn't a leaderless movement.

        It garnered tremendous support in part because of that. And while I am 100% in agreement with OWS about the leaderless structure at this point, understand that 77% agreeing with the message is more than what King had back then (this is good) BUT there were more people putting skin in the game back them than we have right now. Part fo the reason is that there doesn't appear to be much organization. And like it ot lump it, people tend to like to be led.

        I mean if we're saying that people need to be SHOWN the corruption and TAUGHT how effed up things are, when to US it's been obvious for, like, forever, we aren't talking about a population of people who are activist/leader types. So yes, they will be reluctant to become more involved IF they don't see a way to do something.

        That's being communicated right now.

        Here's a question: 77% of americans agree with the message. Thats an astonishing number. there's 300 million americans in the country. Say, 180 million are adults. That's an incredible number of people who say "Yes! I get it! I DO believe that the cards are stacked in favor of the rich and that politics and everything else favors those who have the most money leaving the res of us out to dry! YES I believe that! what can we do about it?"

        THATS where OWS is RIGHT NOW. We HAVE the public's attention. We HAVE their understand and agreement. NOW WHAT?

        That's why the tactics and the movement need to shift. It's time to make the changes happen.

        I've become re-radicalized. Thanks a lot you bunch of oligarchical fascist sons-of-bitches. But once again, I have no choice. Bring it the fuck on.

        by mdmslle on Thu Dec 15, 2011 at 05:24:36 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  You can use different tactics if you like (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          DawnN, shaharazade, raincrow

          But please understand that many of us will continue to use and endorse tactics that do not poll well but we believe are effective.  Yes, we will try new tactics as well but those tactics likely won't poll well either.  We view this as a long term struggle, it is not decided by the polls of the day but the changes that come in the future.  It is great to have 77% agreeing with our message, but if things don't change the number is meaningless.  Our tactics may not poll well, but they are the best way that we know how to put pressure on the system to change.  The Civil Rights movement did not worry about polls and neither should we.

          •  I'm not AS concerned about polling on tactics (0+ / 0-)

            I'm saying that the OWS movement needs to harness the support.

            If the tactics they're using begin to depress support, then that will be not good. This is really early in the movement. What I'm saying is if there's 77% support, you need to be harnessing it.

            Keep you eye on that.

            people want to know: what can we do about it?

            If there are no answers for that, people will begin to disengage. And whether you want to believe it or not, we need a MASSIVE number of people with high commitment to the message and goals if we are to have ANY HOPE of changing the system and saving this dying country.

            Just think about that. Keep it in mind. I'm not suggesting that this thing is a popularity contest. But public support matters. I wish Obama had acted boldly when he had 70% approval rating. But he often said he governs not by polls. heh. Don't make the same mistakes.

            I've become re-radicalized. Thanks a lot you bunch of oligarchical fascist sons-of-bitches. But once again, I have no choice. Bring it the fuck on.

            by mdmslle on Thu Dec 15, 2011 at 05:45:04 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I think we are harnessing the support (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              shaharazade, raincrow

              If they agree with the message it really does not matter if they agree with the tactics.  If the tactics get people talking about the message that is a good thing, if we don't use tactics that get people talking then change won't happen because no matter how many people approve of the message nothing happens if they are quiet about it.

            •  We need to get real information out there (0+ / 0-)

              Short, sweet, graphics-rich broadsides showing how wealth increased in past decades despite high taxes on the wealthy, how income inequality blossomed as capital gains tax rates were slashed, the real origin of the subprime mortgage debacle, increase in income inequality vs. outsourcing of manufacturing jobs, effect of "free trade" policies on domestic manufacturing, use of cheap prison labor instead of paying a living wage (to the incarcerated or the free), bank profits vs. homes foreclosed, foreclosure fraud, foreclosing on military veterans, the concept of a living wage, GOP efforts to outlaw municipal living-wage requirements, on and on and on and on and on and on and on it goes.

              We need a few central resource sites for these hard-hitting e-broadsides (with link to handy printer-friendly versions to take to demonstrations or to leaflet one's neighbors with), websites with eye-catching graphics that make it easy to page through this information.

              EDUCATE people so they begin to understand what is happening to them. If they understand that, they can begin to make intelligent demands of their politicians. Until they know what they want, they'll continue launching themselves mindlessly at the next shiny, noisy object.

      •  The Birmingham bus discrimination protest (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        for one. Yes, the very same Rosa Parks protests that you claim were unpopular. The fact is that these protests were very popular and well-respected for MLK and the people's tactics. They were unpopular among racists. These complaints were reported because they were sensational. They exposed the insane level of bigotry in the South.

        Those of us in the North, even in defacto segregated cities, Milwaukee and Chicago were nearest to me, were shocked and dismayed at the level of hatred and bigotry. Most of us had no idea that there were literal back-of-the-bus laws. Until then, this was just an idiom. A figure of speech. Bottom-of-the-ladder. Last-in-line.

        The protests began when Rosa Parks broke the law. Only two or three others ever broke this law. This was the extent of their civil disobedience. This was enough to get things underway.

        What happened next was the Birmingham bus boycott. They started out by taking taxis instead of busses. This immediately hurt the bus company, but the taxi companies started gouging the black customers. The city council changed the taxi laws to restrict the number of passengers, increased the rates drastically, and reduced the number of taxis and the distance they were permitted to travel. All in an obvious racially-motivated attack. In response, many white people began boycotting the bus company.

        People formed carpools. Parents formed carpools to take their children to and from school and school activities. Others scheduled carpools for workers who had depended on busses. White people who employed black people for household helpers would drive all over town to pick up and drop off these workers. They organized and coordinated a very complicated transportation system in support of the boycott.

        This was a very courageous thing to do in those days in Birmingham. You see, racists simply assumed that all other white people were racists and would support their bigoted actions. They were in for a surprise. This strong message helped to change the ideas about racism in the South.  

        People paid for the carpools out of pocket and through church donations and fund drives. They sacrificed many hours of their own time to support this boycott. They kept it up for about a year, iirc.

        If this wasn't a popular protest, I don't know what else would qualify. Progress was reported every single day in the major newspapers in the North. It was popular in Birmingham, but less so because there were so many racists. Many people were afraid to show that they supported the boycott. The racists were good at fear-mongering.

        The Birmingham Bus Company finally gave in to the financial pressure. They waited until they couldn't make payroll.

        The Birmingham boycott got started by less than a handful of incidents of civil disobedience. The boycott is what worked.

        Yes. there was violence against the protesters, but it was not provoked. MLK was instrumental in inspiring strength and support to maintain peaceful protests.

        The Birmingham bus boycott wasn't the only activity going on in the South, of course. But looking only at what Rosa Parks started and how this grew into a city-wide boycott that was ultimately successful is an example of a social movement that was popular. It actually polled well in the North.

        Not many others worked out as well. Those who believed that intimidation or breaking laws was necessary for successful social change didn't get very far.

        They failed to "keep their eyes on the prize".

        There was a lot more than civil rights protests going on. In parallel, we had assassinations, murders, bombings, J Edgar Hoover, Vietnam, the draft, the pill, sex, drugs, rock and roll, an economy that Nixon destroyed, gas shortages, a very real nuclear threat, Watergate, Pentagon Papers, austerity, and on and on.

        There was a lot of violence that occurred. But this mustn't be confused as a causal factor. Like today, the violence comes from the police, not OWS. The 60's and 70's were no different.

        Violence is cowardice. Peace is strength.

        MLK was right about that.

        "All people are born alike - except Republicans and Democrats" - Groucho Marx

        by GrumpyOldGeek on Fri Dec 16, 2011 at 03:16:08 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  not surprised (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    laserhaas, shaharazade

    keep on keeping on

    Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell. --Edward Abbey

    by greenbastard on Thu Dec 15, 2011 at 10:34:16 AM PST

  •  The Movement is Three Months Old..... (15+ / 0-)

    It changed the conversation from the debt to income inequality.

    The Republicans haven't been able to completely keep the scam going w/ the public.  According to Pew Research, 53% of the country now sees Republicans as extreme & uncompromising vs 33% for the Dems.

    45% of the country sees Dems as more honest & ethical vs 28% for Republicans.   40% blame Republicans for the economical stagnation we see today, 23% blame the Dems.

    67% of the public want the current do-nothing Congress voted out.  That is a record level of discontent.  And....OWS has shone a light on one else has been able to accomplish what they've done.  

  •  Yes, and put a needed focus on (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    laserhaas, DawnN

    talking with your money, moving your accounts to a community financial service instead of the big monsters.

    "Such is the irresistible nature of truth that all it asks, and all it wants, is the liberty of appearing." - Thomas Paine

    by blueoregon on Thu Dec 15, 2011 at 11:14:23 AM PST

  •  In your face tactics scare people, so an ..... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    laserhaas, DawnN

    interesting question regarding tactics would be why/in what way people disagree with them.

    Another question would be whether people agree or not that the tactics have been effective in drawing attention.

    My guess is that people often have mixed feelings about the tactics and polls have not been designed to measure to any degree there mixed feelings/thoughts.

  •  Love this poll so much I wrote a post about it too (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    laserhaas, bluicebank

    Gasoline made from the tar sands gives a Toyota Prius the same impact on climate as a Hummer using gasoline made from oil. ~ Al Gore

    by Lefty Coaster on Thu Dec 15, 2011 at 12:45:06 PM PST

  •  It doesn't matter if people support their tactics. (6+ / 0-)

    If 100% of the public opposed OWS' tactics but a majority agreed with their concerns, that would pure, unadulterated WIN for the protesters.

    They aren't out there to make a point about protest tactics (or police procedure or the use of public spaces, either).  They're out there to make a point about income inequality and the banksters' influence in our political system.

    Art is the handmaid of human good.

    by joe from Lowell on Thu Dec 15, 2011 at 05:02:27 PM PST

    •  Though you don't want the message (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      askew, GrumpyOldGeek

      to trip over the tactics.

      "[R]ather high-minded, if not a bit self-referential"--The Washington Post.

      by Geekesque on Thu Dec 15, 2011 at 05:04:18 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  These numbers indicate it isn't. (5+ / 0-)

        I don't see anything in these poll results to indicate that that is happening.  What they're doing is succeeding.

        I think the reverse is more of a threat: you don't want the tactics to become the message.  I've seen way too much meta-blather about their tactics, their outreach, police procedures, city government, the use of public space, DHS conspiracy theories, and their internal decision-making procedures.  Whenever we're talking about those things, we're not talking about the top 1% and their control over the political system.

        Art is the handmaid of human good.

        by joe from Lowell on Thu Dec 15, 2011 at 05:08:11 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  The support numbers for the message (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          should be higher, imo.  

          If you polled the message without mentioning OWS, good change they're higher.  

          Just like if you associate something 90% of the people support with Obama, support gets knocked down by 40%.

          "[R]ather high-minded, if not a bit self-referential"--The Washington Post.

          by Geekesque on Thu Dec 15, 2011 at 05:13:32 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  DINGDINGDING. (3+ / 0-)

          Precisely. This is how the messaging with OWS needs to work. Hit them with the economic facts and when you're done hit them with the economic facts and when you're done hit them with the economic facts. Explain to them that this is their country and this is their life, and that the people in power want the debate to focus on everything but what really matters.

          "It's like we weren't made for this world, But I wouldn't really want to meet someone who was." --Of Montreal

          by andydoubtless on Thu Dec 15, 2011 at 05:30:59 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  If the tactics cannot be better implemented... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mdmslle, askew

    not to mention an overall focus of the objectives more specifically defined, then the support will diminish and the result will be another opportunity lost.

    •  But the polls went up. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bythesea, Bjorn in MN, wsexson, raincrow

      Your comment doesn't square with the increase in polling support for Occupy. Relatively few Americans were inconvenienced by peaceful occupation of public space (ooh! and how can they bear to sleep at night knowing they have done such evil!) but all Americans are affected by the issues Occupy has focused on.

      "It's like we weren't made for this world, But I wouldn't really want to meet someone who was." --Of Montreal

      by andydoubtless on Thu Dec 15, 2011 at 05:28:07 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  The support will diminish... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        as I said, if there is interference with the 99% and if the objectives remain diffuse.

        There is a reason that the tactics meet with disapproval. Putting your sarcasm aside, maybe more people were inconvenienced than you realize, especially when the costs to taxpayers are weighed in, as there were decisions to occupy without discrimination.

        That is all I said, and just because the polls went up does not mean they will stay up. Ask Herman Cain and Rick Perry about this.

        •   But you give no reason (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          why this will happen if the inconveniencing has happened. Opposition based on this factor is already in the mix of public opinion.

          And let's be honest about how we're allocating the responsibility for these problems. A peaceful march that closes a street or a peaceful occupying of a park does carry a social and public cost. But if the local, state and federal governments then respond in an unreasonable and violent way, the expense of their doing so and the disorder that creates is no longer the responsiblity of the protestors, morally speaking. It is the responsibility of the governments that are thereby misusing their public safety officers.

          "It's like we weren't made for this world, But I wouldn't really want to meet someone who was." --Of Montreal

          by andydoubtless on Thu Dec 15, 2011 at 09:00:21 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  The attention span of the public, its... (0+ / 0-)

            disaffection over tactics, and the fragmented approach and methods that will make implementation of the goals harder to achieve. As such, I think I gave several reasons.

            I do not support police brutality, but if you think that all the protestors are angels, then we differ. Even in peaceful situations, there must be a police presence and tax dollars are at work, removing the resources from elsewhere. That was my point, actually.

  •  The Door is open for Democrats (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    But because we're democrats we'll slam it shut, yell at the people outside for wanting to walk through it, get the Republicans blankets, tea and slippers to make sure they aren't cold and then apologize profusely that they had to suffer a draft after they opened the door while wondering how we too are at fault.

  •  The Dems have to HONESTLY take up the OWS msg (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Losty, MarkW53

    No bullshit hope and change change crap.

    And that is not something I think they cannot do.

    Progressive Candidate Obama (now - Nov 6, 2012)
    Bipartisan Obama returns (Nov 7, 2012)

    by The Dead Man on Thu Dec 15, 2011 at 05:06:36 PM PST

  •  Effective tactics never poll well (7+ / 0-)

    The tactics of the civil rights movement were not popular, the tactics of the woman's suffrage movement were not popular, the tactics of the labor movement were not popular, I don't think there has ever been an effective social movement whose tactics would have polled well.  Do not let these numbers discourage you, they are not surprising and they are actually much better than they appear at first glance.  We are not doing this to be popular we are doing this to advocate for change, and while following the status quo would poll much better it would not bring change.

    •  Amen, Bjorn. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Bjorn in MN, DawnN, raincrow

      Drives me freakin' crazy that Americans "don't approve" of the tactics of OWS.  What's not to love if you like the message?  Americans out there marching peacefully, sitting in, practicing civil disobedience, (when it comes to Occupy with an emphasis on "civil,") in the name of justice and fairness---and what?  

      Folks sitting home in their warm houses in their recliners worrying about their finances, their jobs, their future and their kid's future don't like anything as messy as OWS?

      WTF do they think it takes to get America's attention? Sorry for the rant, but, it cheeses me off.  (hat tip to cheese, for Wisconsinites out there in the cold gathering petitions, trying to save this country from those in the recliners passing judgment without any idea which end is up.)

  •  OWS Is Already a Huge Success (4+ / 0-)

    If the movement grows or transforms into something bigger/better, that is just an extra bonus.

    If it doesn't -- well, they already changed the national conversation in a way that other groups on the Left couldn't do with hundreds of millions of dollars in advertising and direct action campaigns.

    Events underway right now in Europe and here in our own country will bring lots of new attention to social justice issues this next year.

    If nothing else, OWS shows that not everything is hopeless.  Even if working folks can't get representation in government, we can still command attention and visibility -- that in itself is power.

    "I'll believe that corporations are people when I see Rick Perry execute one."

    by bink on Thu Dec 15, 2011 at 05:10:33 PM PST

  •  And this before Democrats Kill Medicare.. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Gooserock, andydoubtless

    See Wyden, Ron

    And Killing a millionaire surtax to pay for Employee tax cut.. Opening the door for Medicare premium increases

    ....(BEFORE Wyden and the Dems gut medicare)




  •  Democrats do NOT Want to Retake Congress With (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mdmslle, Betty Pinson, bluicebank, wsexson

    a populist message. Some individual candidates will run on it but the party has been a conservative one for many years and wants as a whole to retake the House, if it can, with a message for their conservative moderates base.

    With redistricting the House is long gone I'm afraid.

    The question is will Republicans remain dispirited enough that we can hang onto the WH with divided government.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Thu Dec 15, 2011 at 05:19:25 PM PST

  •  The Mainstream Media kill the OWS message (0+ / 0-)

    in whatever ways they can.

    At first they ignored the movement.  Then they reported rapes, filth, antisemitism.

    The media are more powerful than the left.

    Until the whole nation is up in arms about the inequality and unfairness of what is happening,

    nothing will be done.

    Sorry to be a pessimist.

    My personal history has taught me to be very pragmatic.

    Progress in America is glacial.  Two steps forward, one step back.

    We are in reverse motion at the moment.

  •  I think the home occupations (6+ / 0-)

    were a strong step forward for Occupy. In several internet forums I frequent, many moderates had previously been indifferent or critical of the Occupy movement, the idea of preventing eviction from foreclosed homes really struck a positive chord, and seemed to respond to a frequent complaint I had heard during the first round of Occupations back in the fall, that it wasn't obvious what occupying parks accomplished.

    No such questions exist when it comes to keeping families in their homes, or even disrupting the foreclosure auctions.

    This clarifies the messaging and accomplishes something good.

    "It's like we weren't made for this world, But I wouldn't really want to meet someone who was." --Of Montreal

    by andydoubtless on Thu Dec 15, 2011 at 05:24:14 PM PST

  •  My own Repub rep has possible opponents (0+ / 0-)

    for the 2012 election.  Cathy McMorris Rodgers will actually have some quality Dem candidates running against her.  Now, this is a very republican area, but it would be nice if she actually had to worry a bit.

  •  OWS is a republican trojan is dead... (0+ / 0-)

    once OWS protested Obama, we knew they were a republican trojan horse....and thus officially dead to us...dead....deader than dead....!!!!!!!

  •  Very good news (5+ / 0-)

    Glad to see that support is growing.  The momentum is on their side.

    Americans haven't seen voters take to the streets in protest for decades.  It will take some time for them to understand how necessary it is.

    "I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one."

    by Betty Pinson on Thu Dec 15, 2011 at 05:32:00 PM PST

  •  Happen to agree with the survey (0+ / 0-)

    The message is clear--and all sane Americans agree.

    But the refusal of the most sincere participants to acknowledge that they need to have leaders and messages that the independent folk understand is not helpful.

    I LOVE the expansion of the movement to foreclosures, to moving money to small banks, all the common sense moves that allow those of us who want to be supportive to particpate.

    Time to be realistic. Protests are valuable--a progressive congress is priceless.

    Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

    by MrMichaelMT on Thu Dec 15, 2011 at 05:38:08 PM PST

  •  OWS has changed the discussion. We don't hear (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    teaparty rallies and teabagger nonsense.  

    However, some of that is bad news.  They are out working district by district to win in November.   We need OWS's help to win some of those districts.

    I offer a focus:

    elect only those representatives who sign a pledge to bring back Glass-Steagall and overturn the Commodities Modernization Act which allowed the crash to happen.  We know this is still a sword of damocles hanging over our heads and we know that for 60 years we had protection.  We need representatives who represent the 99%.

    "Don't dream it, be it" - Brad, Janet and Frank

    by captainlaser on Thu Dec 15, 2011 at 05:43:26 PM PST

    •  tea party was a Republican election tool (0+ / 0-)

      To make sure there was a backlash against the progressive movement and Dems took the fall in 2010 for the economy. Mission accomplished. They don't want the tea party out between elections or else that would lead them to Ron Paul. Our mistake was not having an alternative to the tea party in something like OWS in 09 and 10

    •  I hope OWS will not align itself (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Bette Kibble

      with any of the parties, even if individual members can be convinced to do campaign work. I think aligning with use is the fastest way to kill the movement.

      But I would like to see a significant number of young people, OWS-affiliated or not, re-energized and inspired to vote in at least the same numbers as in 2008. Same with squishy-middly-undecideds. I think those who can be motivated to go to the polls would vote Democratic.

  •  Sometimes I think we have a fine line to walk, (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Bette Kibble

    but each time I think it through, I arrive at the conclusion that Occupy is doing almost precisely what it needs to do, including occupation of foreclosed homes, which is nothing short of brilliant.

    So far, it's the arrests and police brutality that are giving us our highest visibility in the MSM, but that concomitantly gives the MSM its opportunity to slavishly repeat the "DFHs, 30 tons of garbage abandoned, feces, bongos, no injuries during arrests" meme, as their masters require.

    And yet, the message continues to spread, and that's ultimately what counts. If a chunk of the general public doesn't love us, I myself don't give a damn as long as they begin shaking the fog out of their beguiled brains and standing up for their -- our collective -- interests.

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