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And, if it's fawning, whatever for?

Okay, one of the Kos insiders wanted to know why I hate-rated a LONG front page piece: There's no great mystery: Tim Tebow is a great athlete.  I wanted to express my dissatisfaction with this diary in a more palpable way than I could as the 255th commenter.  It works on several levels:

1) Perhaps he is, but why a long piece on religion and pro football framed this way?
2) This is not the type of thing we do well at Kos.
3) I'm not at all sure we should be praising anyone who's a divider whether he intends to be or not.

Follow me below the magic orange squiggle for more.

First, there's the story.  Frankly, if a political blog wants to do this, Scott Lemieux at Lawyers, Guns and Money gets it just right for me.  Brief, using a rapier.  Not this:

One of the themes behind the Tebow religious hype is that he is exceeding expectations, which reinforces the theme that his religion may be at least part of the reason for it. But is he really exceeding expectations, and if so could there be other explanations for it? Let's consider some examples of quarterbacks who clearly did exceed expectations.

Analyze, analyze, analyze.  It's actually nice to learn that Aaron Rodgers is just as devout but he doesn't wear his faith onto the field.  Why not analyze what's fueled Tebowmania instead of the Sports Illustrated analysis?  That kind of analysis is what we do well here, and let's render unto SI that which is SI's.

Beside, there's another element involved here, and I'm not sure it ever occurs to your Christian writers that when a Muslim or a Jew looks at praying on the field, or even the finger-pointing-to-the-sky gesture, it has an entirely different meaning.  For you, maybe it's exhibitionism, but it's harmless.  For us, it's William Boykin saying "My god is bigger than yours."  Okay, maybe not to all of us, but to (liberal, secular) Jewish me, it is.  It's everywhere too.  Here's part of an interview from the guys who finished fourth on the latest Amazing Race:

HitFix: How did you guys feel about the way your religion was depicted during the season? Some episodes it was never mentioned and other episodes, it felt very central...

Andy: We weren't coming out and being real loud about it, but it was part of our strategy as Racers. I think that's why it became part of the story. A lot of people felt like we were trying to preach, but it was our strategy. It was to lean on God and faith and to surrender to Him every day. That's what we try to do in our everyday life is to surrender to Him and go where He leads us, so it was a huge part of our Race and it is a huge part of how Tommy and I approach each other in our friendship and as teammates as we were racing. I think the show chose to add it into the show when it played more of a role, even though it was kinda there every day. It wasn't something that we came out just talking about, but since we were in the Buddhist temples and there was definitely stuff about God and religion around us, so it came up.

THAT's what annoyed me about what seemed to be an encouragement of Tim Tebow and all he represents.  Flame me if you like.

8:29 PM PT: Okay.  I removed the hate rating.  I think I made my point.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (5+ / 0-)

    All it takes is security in your own civil rights to make you complacent.

    by Dave in Northridge on Sun Dec 18, 2011 at 07:57:12 PM PST

  •  That my friend is hide rate abuse... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FrugalGranny, Rimjob, Jack K, debedb

    no two ways about it.  Tim Tebow's religious belief and his very public displays of it have big political implications.  Discussing it on DKos is completely appropriate.  

    I was the first responder to the post you hiderated, and I was in opposition to the diarist, but I will now be adding a rec. to that comment simply to counter a b/s h.r.  

    I am the neo-con nightmare, I am a liberal with the facts.

    by bhfrik on Sun Dec 18, 2011 at 08:03:01 PM PST

  •  Tebow who™? n/t (7+ / 0-)

    Float like a manhole cover, sting like a sash weight! Clean Coal Is A Clinker!

    by JeffW on Sun Dec 18, 2011 at 08:09:19 PM PST

  •  I hope you realize (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Rimjob, tardis10, Jack K, grover

    The person you dropped the HR on was NOT the one who wrote the FP post.  I think you need to remove your HR.

    ARS is NOT Lawrence Lewis, the author.

  •  I guess god was on Brady's side today..... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JeffW, jayden, quiet in NC

    Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable. – John F. Kennedy,1962

    by moose67 on Sun Dec 18, 2011 at 08:11:42 PM PST

  •  Dave in NR - you did NOT HR the author (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FrugalGranny, Jack K, valion

    Front page stories do not have a tip jar so the first comment is from another member of our community. You dropped a donut on someone other that the diary author and you should remove it. In addition, had your HR been for the diary author it would have been abusive. Remember what the HR is for. It is not because you disagree with the views of the diary author. It is to be used to hide comments that our community does not want others, particularly outsiders, to see. That is why it is called a "Hide Rate". Your use of the HR, even if you had done it correctly, was completely off base and against site rules.

    "let's talk about that"

    by VClib on Sun Dec 18, 2011 at 08:25:09 PM PST

  •  Helllooooooooooo (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    debedb, esquimaux, grover

    I have no problem with your diary and your disagreement with the FP post.  

    I DO have a problem with you dropping HRs on an innocent bystander who's only mistake was to have the first post.  ARS is NOT the diarist.  You need to correct that problem now.  

    Jeebus!

  •  Thanks for the BS explanation of why you HR'ed (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FrugalGranny, Kvetchnrelease

    a commenter instead of Laurence Lewis, who actually wrote the post that apparently mentioned some aspect of religion that so offends you that you chose to shoot the first innocent bystander...

    I have struggled with the temptation to HR your diary, given that you don't- after all this time - understand how the Front Page works or what an HR is supposed to mean, not to mention that you clearly have some issues about free speech when it runs counter to your personal beliefs (or, in this case, the lack thereof).  Unlike you, I have resisted the urge...

    "In a nation ruled by swine, all pigs are upward mobile..." - Dr. Hunter S. Thompson

    by Jack K on Sun Dec 18, 2011 at 08:38:05 PM PST

    •  forgive me (0+ / 0-)

      Nobody ever explained all the rules to me, and "after all this time" is about five months, since I lurked until the site let me do all the things I can do with it now.  I'm sure you never made a mistake, yes?

      All it takes is security in your own civil rights to make you complacent.

      by Dave in Northridge on Sun Dec 18, 2011 at 09:15:21 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  There are two issues here. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Kvetchnrelease

    First, you made a mistake, granted, when you lobbed the HR at the wrong person. Ok, it's a mistake. But, part of being a trusted user is that you know the rules. We trust you to know AND understand the rules. They're spelled out pretty clearly on the FAQ page.

    And the rule is, you don't Hide Rate a diary or a comment if you simply diagree with it, if you think it's stupid, if you hate the other member or other such thing. HRs mean, literally, this comment or diary is so vile, it needs to be hidden. It does not deserve air. It does not deserve to see the light of day.

    We trust you to know that and use your HRs accordingly. That's what being a trusted user means. And that's why people get so fired up over HR abuse.

    As for your issues with Mssr. Lewis' diary, the adult thing is to do what you have done here. Write an opposing diary. You'd probably find a lot of Kossacks that agree with you. Personally, I find it hard to care about Tim Tebow one way or another when the NFL makes heroes out of men who rape, fight and kill dogs, beat up on their wives and girlfriends, etc.

    Praying? We're getting bunched up about a guy that drops to his knees publically now and then? Is anyone concerned that Chicago Bear Sam Hurd was just caught in a sting SELLING drugs;  that apparently he was distributing as much as $2M of cocaine per month? That's Selling, not using. And if he's being set up as a man of color, wouldn't that be news here too?

    I have heard not a peep of that on DKos.

    But Tebow praying? Oh, good Lord (no pun intended) that's a constant source of complaining.

    So I guess --maybe-- I'm sympathetic to your point of view. But when you alienate people upfront, they'll be less likely to listen to you.

    Figure out the rules. If you don't understand, go into an open thread and ask. The night owls, especially, are really approachable, and that thread starts downright early for us on the west coast.

    And an observation:  when Frugal Granny asks you something, respond to her. She's a great  ally to have here.

    © grover


    So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not.

    by grover on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 01:47:22 AM PST

    •  Thanks. I've learned a lot from this. (0+ / 0-)

      I need to learn that a dagger works better than a sledgehammer, and you're correct about pretty much everything.

      I also need to follow my own diaries more attentively.  NOW I understand why.

      All it takes is security in your own civil rights to make you complacent.

      by Dave in Northridge on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 02:48:45 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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