We need to wake up to some disturbing realities, regardless of what we believe. Most states are now governed by these conservatives!
Doug Coe, the quiet man/teachings behind our politicians, SCOTUS, and CEOs:
A transcript/analysis is provided below.
You know I rarely speak lightly. Please know that I believe these teachings are at the foundation of all the problems we have today, and exported to places like Uganda. They are used to justify the horrors of war and the shambles our world is becoming.
Naomi Wolfe lists the steps needed to set up a theocracy/dictatorship.
These teachings have been broadcast worldwide for 60-80 years!
This is a first draft. Any help would be appreciated.
Not convinced?
Here's a reference to a letter from Doug Coe to George W Bush re: Somalia, from the library table of contents. Page 114.
Google "Doug Coe" "The Clinton Library"
Google "George H W Bush" "Doug Coe
Google "Ronald Reagan" and "Doug Coe"
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If we lose an impartial Supreme Court, we lose our Democracy. Justice Steven's warned us in his Citizens United dissent.
Unless and until we truly understand what the corporatists and zealots are peddling, we can't fight fire with fire. And we need to, before killing gays, liberals, and others becomes sanctioned open sport here and abroad.
Yes, corporatists and zealots. They use each other, feed off of each other, and everyone else is just easily replaced collateral.
At a glance, this diary may seem long. This is because I have provided two copies of the transcript of the above talk.
The first is complete, the second copy includes some thoughts and, yes, my opinions about the talk based on my understanding of the Bible.
The is a transcription is from a speech given by Doug Coe in 1989 to a group called the Navigators, which Coe was a member in his youth, according to the title of the youtube video. There are four (4) you tube clips. the following is Clip or Part I.
The video series was posted by Warren Throckmorton You can read what he had to say. He says he had permission to post the youtube clips. Jeff Sharlett debates Throckmorton in the thread at the link.
Oddly, Coe mentions Tunisia, back in 1989 as a good example of dedication to its principles. That didn't work out so well, did it.
TRANSCRIPTION w/o Comment:
.....You can add to them, but I want to suggest you can't subtract from them. I have only kept the ones that are absolutely said by Jesus. I won't quote Paul, Peter, James, John, I'm not following them.
A believer, from the sense we are talking about, is a follower of Jesus Christ. So let's follow Him. Let's not follow Nehemiah, Esther,John, and all..
I get concerned. Protestants view of Catholics and their great concern about "Maryolitry", and kind of leaving Jesus in the background, often, the very people that complain about them are guilty of Paulolitry. They wonder why we are so big on Paul. I think we should be big on both. But I think we ought to be bigger on Jesus Christ, because without Jesus Christ, Mary and Paul are nothing. And neither are we. Without Him we are absolutely nothing.
So let's look to what Jesus said when He was wandering around Galilee with his friends. And not only Peter, James, and John and the 11, I want to say they weren't the only Disciples. There was Joanna, and Mary, and Mary Magdalene, and Suzanna. And I want to say that in terms of intimacy I think they beat us. They were so intimate they don't have to have their names printed every minute. But when it came to some of the things Jesus needed to have done, He trusted them.
Furthermore, it was those women that supplied the daily needs for Jesus' disciple friends, his men friends, before they went out. Talk about a responsibility and opportunity. And a beautiful thing was Jesus' relationship with those women.
And I want to tell you and as far as I can ascertain, when I hear about Abram Vereide, who was a tremendous man, with whom I labored for years before he died, and I loved him like my own father, there would be no Abram Vereide if there wasn't for Marian Johnson, who was an eccentric lady from New York who met Christ. She's the one that had the vision, she's the one that paid the bills, she's the one that prayed for hours.
No one remembers her.
Behind John Wesley, Martin Luther, and Whitfield, there were some tremendous women, not discounting Suzanna his own mother.
I am telling you that this team in Christ there is no black, nor white, no rich, nor poor, male, nor female.
We are all One in Him.
But hear Jesus.
And I will comment briefly on what Jesus said. And you will notice as you go through the Gospels, He always He said in certain places that "if you do not learn, a chapter a week, from memory, you cannot be my Disciple" (laughter from gathering). No, He didn't say that.
Goss (?) used to say "It isn't how much you go through the Bible, it's how much it goes through you."
I know a man that can't read or write, he just knows a few verses, but he radiates Jesus Christ. He just knows about like "twinkle, twinkle little star" but he really twinkles. He's got it.
But Jesus was walking along one day, and He said to his disciples:
"If any man comes to Me and does not put Me before father, mother, brother, and sister, and his own life, he can't be my disciple." Coe 1 (not in the Bible, Coe paraphrases)
That is what He said.
And now you may be the greatest soul winner, discipler, and friend, and everything else, and I'm not going to explain what it means to you, I can't, I can tell what it means to me, but I can't tell you what it means to you.
But I know this, that if Jesus reigns in your heart, He told us that He would send His Holy Spirit to teach you and bring to your memory what He said. And one of the things He said is that
“If any man comes to me and does not hate his father, mother, brother and sister, and his own life, he can't be a disciple" Coe 2, (paraphrased by Coe)
So I don't care whatever other qualifications you have, if you don't do that, you can't be a Disciple of Christ. You want to be a follower of Christ, a companion of Christ, a friend of Christ, a follower of Christ, if you do everything else and you can't do that, you can't be His disciple, Jesus said that.
Jesus said you have to put Me before other people. And you have to put Me before yourself.
Hitler, that was a demand to be in the Nazi Party. You have to put the Nazi Party, and its objectives, ahead of your own life, and ahead of other people.
I've seen pictures of the young men in the Red Guard, 20 years, 22 years old, in China, a table laid out like a butchers table, they would bring in this young man's mother and father, lay her on the table with a basket on the end, he would take an ax and cut her head off (Coe raises his arm and swings it down, as if wielding the ax). They have to put the purposes of the Red Guard ahead of their father, mother, brother, sister, and their own life.
That was a covenant, a pledge.
That's what Jesus said.
Today, in Los Angeles, in the gangs, you violate the code, you are dead. It's happening everyday, today, in this country, this very day.
Taken right from the Scriptures. Jesus Christ said
"If you do not put Me before your father, mother, your brother and your sister, you cannot be My disciple." Coe 3 (not quoted from the Bible)
If you are going to have any movement that moves men and nations, you have to have that kind of commitment.
Jesus knew that. That's the way the social order is run. If you don't run it this way, the social order goes into disarray.
We start at 9:00 and quit at 5:00. And pay a $100,000 a year.
That isn't the way they worked around Ho Chi Minh. They worked 24 hours a day. They were together when they were apart. They had a covenant and they pledged their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honors for the Declaration of Independence, and every man lost his, all 59, all but one lost his life. I think that was the record.
That's why we are here. There was a revolution. Jesus Christ is part of a revolution. He's the most revolutionary figure in history. The revolution of love.
Jesus Christ said:
"If you do not put Me before father, mother, brother, and sister, and your own life, you cannot be my disciple." Coe 4 (not quoted from the Bible)
Christ before others. Christ before self.
The Communist Party before others, the Communist Party before self.
I heard a speech of Gorbachev, in Moscow, to 12,000 students from Socialist countries that he brought for 10 days to talk to them. Can you think of a head of a western country that has done that in your lifetime? Can you think of any head of state like Gaddafi and the President of Tunisia? For 2 weeks they brought 1,500 of the leading young people of Africa together and spent two weeks with them to discuss the African revolution.
We get a few people that graduate with honors from Yale and Harvard, they pass through and we give them pin, we shake their hand, and they go out. No vision, no purpose, no nothing.
No national purpose. I can go on.
But Gorbachev and his speech. I listened to it, to those kids, change two words and Billy Graham could have signed the talk.
I can think of one of the passages. I'll try to quote it for you, he said:
"The greatest need of the hour is to mobilize the young people of the world, to fight injustice, to help the poor, to fight the future holocaust due to nuclear arms, to fight for mercy, and peace on earth, good will toward men. That's the possiblities of the youth of the world."
The only thing he didn't say was "Let's band together around Jesus Christ"
He said "Let's band together around Marx and Lennon, and let's do it."
And the kids love it.
We don't even ask them to give their lives, their fortunes, or their sacred honor.
We argue about giving 10% and a gift.
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I know there are some that are dismissive of this threat, and I know there are some that see no merit in trying to understand people that, in their opinion, believe in magic and story telling.
However, I ask all to please read and learn how Christianity is being used by those seeking total World Power and Dominance over our lives.
As a believer myself, it's head spinning. All that I hold dear, is being twisted in ways that make others hate those who believe. The stage is being set for a blood bath of epic proportions, in my opinion. What we are seeing in the Middle East this week is the beginning of an escalation.
Perhaps we can prevent this if we try.
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Again, regardless of what you believe and how you feel towards how others believe, the teachings of Coe have been spread worldwide, mostly to world leaders and the wealthy/power brokers in all countries. These words are used to justify their ends because, as Sharlett also states, in the minds of these people "The End Justifies the Means", and mean it can get!!!
Heads Up: I am about to share the Crib Note of my journey and spiritual beliefs.
I offer to share this because I believe it might help people understand how many people become Christians. I also believe what I share may help to better understand Coe's words. If you want to skip reading how, what, and why I believe, please go to the section below called SOME INSIGHTS INTO COE'S SPEECH
I believe, first and foremost, that each and every person has the right to their own choice of beliefs, and that no one should harm another person for any reason, and especially not for religious reasons!
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My Personal Beliefs and Journey:
I hope those who do not believe, will suffer my testimony here. These are my feelings, and I would hope that those who think it is silly or even stupid to believe and have faith in the unseen and unproven will restrain from attacking me for them. I'm not trying to convert you or others.
I am simply sharing my heart, bravely I might add, hoping to help those who don't believe better understand how some do:
I do believe in God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit (Ghost). I do believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and my Savior. That without Him, I would not be able live in God's kingdom again. I am not ashamed to say so.
There is one thing that Coe said that I absolutely agree with, although not according to the words Coe uses. It is:
...that if Jesus reigns in your heart, He told us that He would send His Holy Spirit to teach you and bring to your memory what He said.
(Coe's words)
I also believe that the Holy Spirit is freely given to all.
We are free to choose to listen to its promptings and invite it to be a part of our perceptions or we choose not to. It's our choice. It does require effort, however, to hear and discern what is heard is truly from the Holy Spirit.
I know that the Holy Spirit never prompts us to do harm or to be unloving.
I choose to listen for the promptings of the Holy Spirit. It is taught that the Holy Spirit is received when we are baptized.
I'm not sure because I have no comparison. I sense it is a gift to all. How did I develop these beliefs, this faith.
I will make a 63 year story quite short.
I spent the first three (3) years of my life in a Catholic orphanage, raised by The Sisters of Mercy. You can read that story, written by the Sister who took care of me here. Few would argue that such a beginning had a huge impact on my spiritual life.
At the age of 21 (1968), after three major life events in two short years, heartbroken, very shaken up, and feeling very alone in the world, I was prompted/inspired to read the Bible.
I went to a book store and bought a paperback version with Jesus' words written in red. I had never read the New Testament before and didn't have the patience, at age 21, to read the whole thing. I read just Jesus' words over and over and over again for a couple of years. (I have since read the whole New Testament at least a dozen times and the Old Testament a few times)
I had a one hour commute to and from Boston at the time, so I read them on the subway to and from work. No one sat next to me, btw, or if they did they rarely talked to me. Works on airplanes, too.
Something in my heart changed and/or shifted. I began to see the world through new eyes, better eyes. All residual bitterness melted away. I found I could ask and receive direction, not that I always listened to it, truth be told. For more times than I can remember, I have received warnings, direction, and inspiration in my life.
I became more secure and at peace. Life's bumps (they never stop) had less negative impact.
I certainly remain a very imperfect person w/many faults; however, and I wish others would afford the same, I respect others and their beliefs. Secure in my own, I have no need to argue, to be right, and certainly no need to slam another for their beliefs UNLESS they are diligently engaged in dangerously misleading others, as I believe the teachings of Coe and Warren do. Then, like Jeff Sharlett, I cannot remain silent.
When I didn't/don't understand what the words in the Bible or other writings mean, I took Jesus' words found in Luke literally. Like a child believing her mother would be there in the morning (a bit of a stretch for me), I believed/believe Jesus' promise:
Luke Chapter 11, Verse 9
And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
And Luke, Chapter 8, Verse 10:
And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
I've listened to others interpretations, sought them out, studied the Bhagavad Gītā, danced with the Hare Krishnas, chanted Nam-myoho-renge-kyo, lived at an Indian Ashram, attended Temple, tried all the Christian sects, and landed here.
Most importantly, what I take away from the teachings of Jesus Christ are the two commandments He told us were the greatest:
Matthew Chapter 22, Verses 35 - 40
35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
I believe that seeking is our individual responsibility.
Most sense at some point in life that there is something else, something lacking, something bigger, longer lasting, something that we want but can't quite explain.
I will share that, at age 21 and for years later, I felt like there was a huge, empty hole inside of me. It felt like an echo chamber where the sounds of life seemed to rumble and reverberate. Painful and sad scenes of life past would pop up in technicolor, and reruns of unkind words spoken by others and myself would blare, both uninvited and unappreciated. It was hard to bear. Nothing would fill that hole, stop the movies, or still the radio.
In time, and with much effort to find a balance between body, mind, and spirit that hole shrunk.
I have learned that I am so totally average that, if others were honest, I think I would learn that I am far from alone in this sense of hollowness. Anyone?
This is the process that I underwent to become a believer in God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit.
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SOME INSIGHTS INTO COE'S SPEECH
I believe these feeling of yearning for something greater create vulnerability. And, as we all know, there are no lack of "priestly imposters, plunderers, and profligates" (Dickens, Tale of Two Cities, pg. 311) willing to take peoples money and make them promises for doing so, instead of teaching and inspiring people to seek, find, and fulfill a balance in their lives.
Perhaps the word fulfill stemmed from a need for a word to describe the cure for that hollow, empty echo chamber? Hmm.
I will resist launching into opinions on why people so readily delegate their spiritual responsibility onto another.
I do believe Jesus showed us the way, by example, of finding, developing, and having the courage to live exemplary lives. Others have, as well. There are many great teachers that have integrity. There is some Truth in all religions. We can be each others teachers as well. But we are each in charge of our own self and our quest for inner peace.
It doesn't help that there are many Christian options to choose from, and that many teach that the others are wrong and even evil. Perhaps the need for primary support for the Pastor and his family and/or the Priest from a congregation creates this competition. But it sure is confusing for someone trying to find a spiritual home.
So confusing.
This spiritual vulnerability is easily and even often exploited, and history tells a very bloody history of how that can play out.
And worse, some are compelled to strictly live by rigid rules set down by teachers and/or spiritual leaders. And, please know, I understand the difference from choosing and being compelled to adhere to rules set down by religions.
In our country and abroad, the spiritual leaders that promote selfish, ego boosting goals, false forgiveness, and justify socially irresponsible agenda like denying health care and threatening to dismantle social safety nets, who demonize unions and labor rights and the LGBT community, who promote worshipping corporate freedoms, funding dictatorships, enabling corruption, promoting unending wars, and, like Coe, Warren and many others, find merit in teaching blind, bloody, even parent sacrificing revolutionary examples to demonstrate what following Jesus means, rely on the vulnerability and self-justifications of their followers.
Is there anything sadder than to watch someone, who truly is inspired to follow the examples of Jesus and others, be led by hateful and even violent doctrine?
These are the people who sponsor the National Prayer Breakfast every year? How does this look to the world at large?
Words fall short of describing the power of Doug Coe, those he delegates to, and The Family.
You can read about the dictators, leaders, and generals from repressive regimes that have been welcome with open arms to DC prayer groups here, read pgs 24-27.
HELP PEOPLE WAKE UP! In case you have been asleep for the last 30 years, we are edging ever closer to becoming a Proto-Fascist, or Theocratic, or Plutocratic, call it what you may, country. In case you haven't noticed, we are becoming poorer each year, less safe from scams and toxic products, or in short, more third world. We are destroying life on this planet.
DISSECTING COE'S WORDS:
LET'S BEGIN LOOKING DEEPER INTO COE'S WORDS
First, here are the words Coe uses that he states are Jesus words:
Coe 1: "If any man comes to Me and does not put Me before father, mother, brother, and sister, and his own life, he can't be my disciple."
This is not a direct quote from the Bible. Coe paraphrases.
Coe 2: “If any man comes to me and does not hate his father, mother, brother and sister, and his own life, he can't be a disciple"
Coe paraphrases.
Coe 3: "If you do not put Me before your father, mother, your brother and your sister, you cannot be My disciple."
Coe paraphrases, not a direct quote from the Bible.
Coe 4: "If you do not put Me before father, mother, brother, and sister, and your own life, you cannot be my disciple."
And, Coe paraphrases again.
Not once does Coe quote scripture or the Jesus' words from the Bible.
I will begin by stating the obvious. The exact words of Jesus Christ may not be known from words printed in Bibles, as Matthew and Luke seem to disagree, and the original writings of the Apostles were 'lost'.
What we have are translations from Hebrew, to Greek, to Latin, to English, and to every language by now, by people who had their own talents, purposes, and perhaps prejudices. There are many version, produced by different sects of Christianity and others that use different words.
There is absolutely no guarantee that what we have is exactly what was said by Jesus Christ.
That said, using the two New Testament verses Coe paraphrases, there is a huge difference between a sequence of priority, Before Me (Matt.), and Hate (Luke).
Here are the Scripture References in Coe's talk, that he paraphrases:
Matthew Chapter 10:37 and Luke Chapter 14:26.
Matthew 10:37
He that loveth father or mother more than me, is not worthy of me; and he that loveth son or daughter more than me, is not worthy of me.
Luke 14:26
"If any man come to Me and hate not his father and mother, and wife and children, and brethren and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.
Before we continue, I think it's important to understand the Greek derivative of the word hate:
The following is from a great resource called the Polyglot Bible. It shows the Greek, English, and Latin versions of each verse, with an interactive link for key words, to help determine a wider selection of the original meaning.
Hate - G3404
μισέω
miseō
mis-eh‘-o
From a primary word μῖσος misos (hatred); to detest (especially to persecute); by extension to love less: - hate (-ful).
And the Greek derivative for the word disciple:
Disciple - G3101
μαθητής
mathētēs
math-ay-tes‘
From 3129 a learner, that is, pupil: - disciple.
This verse could have been translated as follows:
"If any man come to Me and not love less his father and mother, and wife and children, and brethren and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be My pupil/learner."
(Throughout this text, he means both he or she)
In other words, when a person feels or finds a need or desire to learn about spirituality or God/Jesus Christ, he will yearn to do so. This will take his time and even become a priority. If he finds he is uplifted and improved to such a degree that it provides him with more balance in his life and even improves his relationship with his family, this spiritual relationship will become more important than all others, because without it he feels he won't succeed as well without this balance, in providing the love and support his family requires. He finds and feels it brings a higher purpose to his life. It's satisfying and helpful.
Trying to force this or compel this relationship just doesn't work. It's our inner life that escapes description, a dilemma for those asked to share it.
TRANSCRIPTION, Coe's words in blockquote, followed by commentary which are just thoughts shared based on my own decades of reflection and study. I could be wrong. I am sure there are many that will want to tear them to pieces. I make no apology for these perceptions. And, yes, because of the harm I see being done to good people and the planet, I am quite harsh. I don't apologize for that either. I trust each of you will easily find your own opinions and I hope you share them:
.....You can add to them, but I want to suggest you can't subtract from them. I have only kept the ones that are absolutely said by Jesus. I won't quote Paul, Peter, James, John, I'm not following them.
Coe absolutely does not use the words of Jesus. Not one of Coe's Biblical references are direct quotes; therefore, not Jesus' words as presented in scripture. Coe paraphrases. Pointed out because he is emphatically states "absolutely said by Jesus".
A believer, from the sense we are talking about, is a follower of Jesus Christ. So let's follow Him. Let's not follow Nehemiah, Esther, John, and all..
In short, let's disregard the rest of the Scriptures.
I get concerned. Protestants view of Catholics and their great concern about "Maryolitry", and kind of leaving Jesus in the background, often, the very people that complain about them are guilty of Paulolitry. They wonder why we are so big on Paul. I think we should be big on both. But I think we ought to be bigger on Jesus Christ, because without Jesus Christ, Mary and Paul are nothing. And neither are we. Without Him we are absolutely nothing.
Perhaps this where Vereide and then Coe got the idea to espouse "Jesus, plus nothing"? It's odd for a believe to teach that we are not nothing. It's an insult to our Creator to say we are nothing.
So let's look to what Jesus said when He was wandering around Galilee with his friends. And not only Peter, James, and John and the 11, I want to say they weren't the only Disciples. There was Joanna, and Mary, and Mary Magdalene, and Suzanna. And I want to say that in terms of intimacy I think they beat us. They were so intimate they don't have to have their names printed every minute. But when it came to some of the things Jesus needed to have done, He trusted them.
Furthermore, it was those women that supplied the daily needs for Jesus' disciple friends, his men friends, before they went out. Talk about a responsibility and opportunity. And a beautiful thing was Jesus' relationship with those women.
And I want to tell you and as far as I can ascertain, when I hear about Abram Vereide, who was a tremendous man, with whom I labored for years before he died, and I loved him like my own father, there would be no Abram Vereide if there wasn't for Marian Johnson, who was an eccentric lady from New York who met Christ. She's the one that had the vision, she's the one that paid the bills, she's the one that prayed for hours.
No one remembers her.
Behind John Wesley, Martin Luther, and Whitfield, there were some tremendous women, not discounting Suzanna his own mother.
Of course any movement requires the support of women. I don't know who was in the audience, but surely there were women there. And there are certainly a lot of mega-wealthy, eccentric widows who relish the attention their money can buy.
Jeff Sharlett and others have reported that women are inspired to play a quiet support role for the the men. I think this is quite well covered in the above "women section" of Coe's speech.
I am telling you that this team in Christ there is no black, nor white, no rich, nor poor, male, nor female.
We are all One in Him.
True, we are all one. It is good that they are so inclusive; however, actions speak louder than words. How do Coe's followers treat ALL, stand up for the rights and dignity for ALL? Gays, Muslims, Women, Blacks, Asians, Native Americans, Children, Veterans, the Elderly, and so on.
But hear Jesus.
And I will comment briefly on what Jesus said. And you will notice as you go through the Gospels, He always He said in certain places that "if you do not learn, a chapter a week, from memory, you cannot be my Disciple" (laughter from gathering). No, He didn't say that.
Perhaps from the old speech addage, warm them up with a joke.
Goss (?) used to say "It isn't how much you go through the Bible, it's how much it goes through you."
I know a man that can't read or write, he just knows a few verses, but he radiates Jesus Christ. He just knows about like "twinkle, twinkle little star" but he really twinkles. He's got it.
Here's the irony. In my personal experience, in order to know Jesus Christ, it is most helpful to regularly read His words in the scriptures. It's like it opens a window to the heart/spirit within. Coe seems to disparage that here, makes it sound like it's not that important. It's difficult to maintain the communion with the Spirit, if you don't commune. There are just too many stressors in life to throw us off track, like fear of having these people take control like they have in Uganda. Coe and The Family's prodigy.
But Jesus was walking along one day, and He said to his disciples:
"If any man comes to Me and does not put Me before father, mother, brother, and sister, and his own life, he can't be my disciple." Coe 1 (not in the Bible, Coe paraphrases)
That is what He said.
That is not what Jesus said, first of all. This is what Jesus said:
Matthew 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me, is not worthy of me; and he that loveth son or daughter more than me, is not worthy of me.
Also, disciple could very well mean My learner or student, as the Greek reference above points out.
Coe alludes that a disciple is someone who is a blind follower capable of murder, as we will read below, or so its easy to think based on the heinous examples used.
I don't think it is blasphemy to ask questions. We are invited and directed to ask questions by no other than Jesus Christ himself. So I ask:
What if this is the wrong translation? Lost over time by so many rewrites?
What if what Jesus really said was
"He that truly loves his father, mother, son or daughter, understands My love for him. And, if he truly loves his father, mother, son or daughter, he can truly love Me and I will love him. He will delight in teaching his father, mother, son or daughter of that love by his loving example in their lives and the lives of others, not by chastisement and compelling them to agree with his opinions. However, if he loves himself more, his need for power, wealth, addictions, and/or status, than his family, his heart is hard and he will not know love, neither theirs or Mine."
Even if we take the words at point value, Jesus also instructs us to honor our mother and father and to love all.
I think it's possible the original words were scrambled and misinterpreted, quite frankly. The Jesus I know wouldn't say that.
How silly is this example, for instance:
For instance, what if on the way to church the family is in a car accident and a child is rushed to the hospital in an ambulance. Will dad say to the terrified child suffering with pain "Go along dear, we'll see you after church, because we love God more than you?" I don't think so.
And now you may be the greatest soul winner, discipler, and friend, and everything else, and I'm not going to explain what it means to you, I can't, I can tell what it means to me, but I can't tell you what it means to you.
Coe then proceeds to tell them exactly what it should mean to his audience, in gruesome terms.
But I know this, that if Jesus reigns in your heart, He told us that He would send His Holy Spirit to teach you and bring to your memory what He said. And one of the things He said is that
The one true statement in the speech, as I mention above, we are promised that if we ask, we shall receive.
Now Coe tells his followers that they must hate their father, mother, brother and sister, even his own life, in order to be a disciple. This time Coe is referring to a passage in Luke, but again he misquotes or paraphrases it:
“If any man comes to me and does not hate his father, mother, brother and sister, and his own life, he can't be a disciple" Coe 2, (paraphrased by Coe)
So I don't care whatever other qualifications you have, if you don't do that, you can't be a Disciple of Christ. You want to be a follower of Christ, a companion of Christ, a friend of Christ, a follower of Christ, if you do everything else and you can't do that, you can't be His disciple, Jesus said that.
I will now paraphrase Coe:
No matter what you do, if you do not hate your father, mother, sister, and brother you can't be a Disciple. In short, hating those closest to you is a mandate for being a disciple.
Does this sound like the instructions the Baby Jesus in the Manger would grow up and say?
And Coe uses this hate, this proud ability to rise up and hate, as though this hating is a sign of spiritual strength, an achievement that can raise a man to leadership, even to become a Dictator.
Nothing in this speech fills me fuller of indignation than this misuse, this priest craft that Coe uses to help justify the heartless, cruel, racist, homophobic, earth destroying, ageist, elitist acts of very rich men and women, and the leaders they chose to train and promote here and abroad.
The following, the very same language used by Rick Warren (see video clip below), is being spread to millions of adults and children world wide. This righteous hate (an oxymoron of the most sinister type) is being used to torture, banish, and burn people alive being accused of witchcraft. Yes, witchcraft. We are returning to the days of Salem, Massachusetts.
I'm not making this up. Go to you tube and watch Sarah Palin and Reverend Muthee if you don't believe me. Rev. M protects Sarah 'from every kind of witchcraft'.
Now, carefully read the following words being spread throughout the world to inspire people to want to qualify to become leaders:
Jesus said you have to put Me before other people. And you have to put Me before yourself.
Hitler, that was a demand to be in the Nazi Party. You have to put the Nazi Party, and its objectives, ahead of your own life, and ahead of other people.
I've seen pictures of the young men in the Red Guard, 20 years, 22 years old, in China, a table laid out like a butchers table, they would bring in this young man's mother and father, lay her on the table with a basket on the end, he would take an ax and cut her head off (Coe raises his arm and swings it down, as if wielding the ax). They have to put the purposes of the Red Guard ahead of their father, mother, brother, sister, and their own life.
That was a covenant, a pledge.
That's what Jesus said.
No, Jesus did not say anything close to what these examples portray to the hearts and minds of people seeking spiritual guidance.
Today, in Los Angeles, in the gangs, you violate the code, you are dead. It's happening everyday, today, in this country, this very day.
Taken right from the Scriptures. Jesus Christ said
"If you do not put Me before your father, mother, your brother and your sister, you cannot be My disciple." Coe 3 (not quoted from the Bible)
Based on these teachings, the leaders in Uganda might feel like really good disciples of Jesus because gays will be jailed and/or killed in His name.
Can you see how these teachings can provide cover for heinous acts against others?
Isn't it odd that both Coe and Rick Warren use the same exact words?
Isn't it odd that the US has the largest % of people jailed than any other country in the world?
Justified by these spiritual leaders, Coe, Warren, and the thousands of members of The Family, that hate their parents and siblings and consider themselves good disciples of Jesus because their hearts don't stop them from doing harm to others.
At this point, anyone that is a student of National Socialism will recognize the direction these people are headed:
If you are going to have any movement that moves men and nations, you have to have that kind of commitment.
Jesus knew that. That's the way the social order is run. If you don't run it this way, the social order goes into disarray.
Jesus says nothing about social order and certainly not a social order that justifies the actions portrayed above.
We start at 9:00 and quit at 5:00. And pay a $100,000 a year.
That isn't the way they worked around Ho Chi Minh. They worked 24 hours a day. They were together when they were apart. They had a covenant and they pledged their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honors for the Declaration of Independence, and every man lost his, all 59, all but one lost his life. I think that was the record.
That's why we are here. There was a revolution. Jesus Christ is part of a revolution. He's the most revolutionary figure in history. The revolution of love.
Mind twisting, quite frankly. We start with Hitler, Red Guard children beheading parents, and LA street gangs, then glorify revolution, and end with the word love.
Perhaps there is some improvement for how we spend our time; however, compelling people, even for good reasons is a slippery slope.
Jesus Christ said:
"If you do not put Me before father, mother, brother, and sister, and your own life, you cannot be my disciple." Coe 4 (not quoted from the Bible)
Christ before others. Christ before self.
The Communist Party before others, the Communist Party before self.
From putting Jesus before our self, to the Communist Party. Again, Coe, Warren, and thousands of others are teaching these exact words. It's a script.
I heard a speech of Gorbachev, in Moscow, to 12,000 students from Socialist countries that he brought for 10 days to talk to them. Can you think of a head of a western country that has done that in your lifetime? Can you think of any head of state like Gaddafi and the President of Tunisia? For 2 weeks they brought 1,500 of the leading young people of Africa together and spent two weeks with them to discuss the African revolution.
We get a few people that graduate with honors from Yale and Harvard, they pass through and we give them pin, we shake their hand, and they go out. No vision, no purpose, no nothing.
No national purpose. I can go on.
No national purpose, as if we are all supposed to be goose stepping, chopping our parents heads off, and never uttering a word in opposition. THIS is the call to National Socialism masked by a fervent call to follow Jesus.
Are we fooled?
But Gorbachev and his speech. I listened to it, to those kids, change two words and Billy Graham could have signed the talk.
I can think of one of the passages. I'll try to quote it for you, he said:
"The greatest need of the hour is to mobilize the young people of the world, to fight injustice, to help the poor, to fight the future holocaust due to nuclear arms, to fight for mercy, and peace on earth, good will toward men. That's the possiblities of the youth of the world."
The only thing he didn't say was "Let's band together around Jesus Christ"
He said "Let's band together around Marx and Lenin, and let's do it."
And the kids love it.
Oh, yes. Let's start by home schooling them like they did in Germany. Let's have huge youth conferences worldwide. Let's set up Jesus Camps and teach the kids how to shoot and survive. And in the name of Jesus. Let's invite billionaires to launch a new party. We'll call it the Teabag Party. They will demonstrate their disciple potential through their hate for whatever we tell them to hate. Let's have our own 24/7 TV station. Let's appoint Supreme Court Justices that will follow the plan.
All because WE LACK A NATIONAL PLAN. Am I the only one to see the potential National Plan wrapped in these words?
We don't even ask them to give their lives, their fortunes, or their sacred honor.
Well, this speech was given in 1989. Before the first Gulf War. I don't think tens of thousands of wounded soldiers would agree that we don't ask men and women to give their lives, their fortunes, or their sacred honor anymore.
On the contrary, the Air Force Academyis a bastion for these teachings of Coe's and Warren's. Erik Prince follows these teachings and created a huge, private mercenary army, spy agency, and air force. Why would Prince do this? He certainly didn't need the money. Zealotry?
We argue about giving 10% and a gift.
Coe is referring to a 10% tithe or gift "true believers" are to give to their Pastor or Priest.
Well, I think the put together a Plan. A plan hidden within religion, which in the 1960s and 1970s found their membership rolls dropping.
And, in case you missed these developments, Lutherans, Catholics, and Evangelicals joined forces in the 1980s:
Evangelicals and Catholics Together is a 1994 ecumenical document signed by leading Evangelical and Roman Catholic scholars in the United States. The co-signers of the document were Charles Colson and Richard John Neuhaus, representing each side of the discussions. [1] It was part of a larger ecumenical rapprochement in the United States that had begun in the 1980s with Catholic-Evangelical collaboration in para-church organizations such as Moral Majority during the Ronald Reagan administration.[citation needed]
The statement is written as a testimony that spells out the need for Protestants and Catholics to deliver a common witness to the modern world at the eve of the third millennium...
The evangelical signatories include Bill Bright of Campus Crusade for Christ, Os Guinness of the Trinity Forum, Richard Mouw of Fuller Theological Seminary, Mark Noll of Wheaton College, J. I. Packer of Regent College, Pat Robertson of Regent University, Larry Lewis of the Home Mission Board of the Southern Baptist Convention, Richard Land of the Christian Life Commission, Jesse Miranda of the Assemblies of God, and John White of Geneva College. [4]
The Roman Catholic signatories include bishops Francis Cardinal George, William Murphy, Carlos Arthur Sevilla, philosophers George Weigel, Mary Ann Glendon, Michael Novak, Peter Kreeft, and theologians Joseph Augustine Di Noia, Avery Cardinal Dulles, Joseph P. Fitzpatrick, Keith Fournier.[citation needed]
The agreement was reached a few years before the 1999 Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification (between Lutherans and Catholics), which in substance says many of the same things as ECT in that it emphasizes Sola gratia over Sola fide.
January 9, 2010 Catholics and evangelicals unite against Mexico’s new gay marriage law
January 25, 2010 Catholics and Evangelicals unite to defend marriage in Argentina
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How did we get here? I believe these teachings by Vereide, Coe, Warren, and many, many others are how. I think these teachings resonate with men and women who want the world to run according to their laws, not the laws of either nature or of God, and certainly not at the will of the people.
We must understand these corporatist zealots wrapped in religion and the flag, in order to properly respond.
I believe we are in peril if we don't. It's time to meta-organize our ground game in order to reach out and deprogram those in our inner circles. Can we succeed? Not if we don't try.
Will we succeed? Who knows; however, if things get worse than they are, how will you feel if you didn't try? This question motivates me to speak out.
Here's Rick Warren giving practically the same speech. I think the Warren's of the world dream of have the power and impact that the Dictators they tout had.
This one starts out a bit boring, but bear with it and listen:
Rick Warren simply parrots what Doug Coe has spread worldwide for 60 years.
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For those who would disparage or even lash out angrily because we choose to do some research and decide for ourselves what Jesus words might have been, or what the Old Testament might 'really' be saying, I say
Spiritual leaders rarely agree, they choose their own interpretation as a rule, not an occasion. Why can't we all? Why can't we all be free to ask, seek, and find the meaning that satisfies our own heart? Why do we allow others to dictate to us?
As long as we perpetuate the arguments and the Struggle Between Religions, the world is rocked by their power battle for our souls and/or participation in their place, according to their interpretations.
These battles have disturbed the peace of this world for far too long.
Perhaps it's time for a better way. We can still choose where we go to worship. Nothing has to change, accept the perception of To Each His/Her Own and an end to the Battle of "My God is Better Than Your God" or "My Church is True and Yours is False". (War on Error)
Bibles are still being rewritten:
The Good News Bible, I read this in 1978.
The Conservative Bible Project
So, if someone has a negative response to a more loving interpretation of the Bible, you can remind them of the above AND mention
The Institute of Noetic Science
The details ($donations etc) of the connection between Doug Coe, Evangelicals, and new age Noetics are found in this article:
THE HARMONIC CONVERGENCE OF EVANGELICALISM AND NOETIC SCIENCE
And here's my version:
A Heartfelt Gift of Power. Yours, btw. Drop in to Get It.