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I found some additional information and added it to the end of the diary.

The question that still remains:

Where in Pittsburgh, PA did Paul complete his residency to qualify as an OBGYN?

Curious as usual, I started looking into Ron Paul's background and have questions.  Is it ok to ask questions?  I am not making conclusions but feel it is really, really important to know all the facts on such an important decision as President of the USA.

From Ron Paul's website

He graduated from Gettysburg College and the Duke University School of Medicine, before proudly serving as a flight surgeon in the U.S. Air Force during the 1960s. He and his wife Carol moved to Texas in 1968, where he began his medical practice in Brazoria County. As a specialist in obstetrics/gynecology, Dr. Paul has delivered more than 4,000 babies!

1.  Is it possible to become a licensed OBGYN with only 1 years internship?  And NO residency?

2.  In 1963 was it possible to join the Air Force for only 2 years?  And can an Air Force Captain also be a medical resident?  How would that time be shared?

If not, can you get out if you switch over to the Texas Air National Guard in 1965?

3.  Is it possible to be in the Texas Air National Guard if you don't live in Texas.

4.  In 1970, did Texas grant Medical License for OBGYN to a 1 Year Intern w/no residency?

If Ron Paul didn't complete the required 4-7 years of OBGYN residency, did he practice legally in Texas?  Research indicates he refused to bill Medicaid and Medicare.  Is there a connection?

That was very nice of Ron Paul; however, it raises another question:  

Did Medicare and Medicaid require a proof of license and was Ron Paul a licensed OBGYN from 1968 through the late 1970s?

I have tried really hard to find a copy of Ron Paul's medical license(s) one attained prior to joining the Air Force and another for practicing in Texas with no success.  At the end of this diary is some updated, yet conflicting, certification (not licensing) information.

Also, AT END OF ARTICLE IS A RECAP OF Effort to Search the Texas Medical Board site.  

FOR NEWCOMERS:  If you are new to Daily Kos, the text you see that is either BROWN or ORANGE is a link to the site where information was found.  Just click on either to view the referenced document.  If you see indented text following a link, the indented text is from the link.

I used Wikipedia, Ron Paul's website, and an online biography to provide the following information about Ron Paul.

Before examining Ron Paul's career life, I want to present an example of what it means to qualify as a Flight Surgeon so that you have this example to compare to Paul's path:

In 1981 according to this story, you don't have to be a licensed doctor to be a Flight Surgeon.  All that is required is 4 years Bachelor, 4 years Medical School, and 1 year internship:

Here's the story of a Navy Flight Surgeon who graduated from Dartmouth Medical School in 1981:

Having attended DMS on a US Navy scholarship, Georgia completed his internship at the Bethesda Naval Hospital, and then trained to become a Navy flight surgeon, caring for pilots and air crew stationed in Iceland monitoring Soviet submarines. “Mostly my job was to make sure that the aviators were safe to fly,” he explains.

More than ten years after completing medical school, Georgia returned to Bethesda Naval Hospital to do a residency in diagnostic radiology.  

His training completed, Georgia was assigned to the navy hospital ship USNS Comfort, home ported in Baltimore.  

So Steps to be Flight Surgeon:

1.  Four years of medical school.
2.  One year intern
3.  No medical license
4.  Special training by military to be a Flight Surgeon who doesn't really do surgery

To become a licensed medical doctor, you have to complete both an internship and a residency.  An internship lasts one full year, and residency follows.  Looking at the following time line, it doesn't look possible for Paul to have completed both.

Paul, Ronald Ernest (Ron)

Ronald Paul was born on August 20, 1935, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.  

After graduating from Dormont High School in Green Tree, Pennsylvania in 1953 (Age 18)

Received his Bachelors of Arts degree in 1957 (Age 22) and

1957 Ron Paul married Carol Wells.

Attending Duke University Medical Center from 1957 - 1961 (Age 26)

Paul relocated with his wife to Michigan, where he completed his medical internship at the Henry Ford Hospital in Detroit.

So Paul was an intern, not a resident, from the summer or fall of 1961 - ?1963 when he joined the Air Force (Age 28)    

What are the requirements before becoming a licensed OBGYN?

Education, Internship, and Residency requirements to become an Obstetrician

Obstetricians complete four years of medical school (Duke) and then a year of internship (Henry Ford Hospital) before entering residency graduate education in obstetrics, which usually takes about four to six years. Completion of the qualifying licensing examinations is required to practice medicine. Licensure by the regional licensing authority is required.

OBGYN Training Programs and Requirements

To become an OB/GYN, applicants must earn a bachelor's degree, complete medical school and fulfill a 4-year residency requirement. During residency, students spend at least 50 hours per week attending to patients and learning from doctors. After they complete their residency, applicants must then take boards or licensing examinations before they can legally practice medicine.

I can't find information on line about the details of Ron Paul's residency to become an OBGYN.  Medical Doctors usually list their residency information.

MORE QUESTIONS:  

If Ron Paul entered the Air Force in 1963, what month?  

What month did he begin his internship in 1961?  

How many months was Paul an intern?  

Was Paul on an Air Force scholarship like the case first mentioned above?

By 1963, Paul has three small under age 7.

From Wikipedia and other sources, this is Ron Paul's military experience AS A FLIGHT SURGEON.

1963 (Age 28) - 1965 (Age 30) Joined Air Force for only 2 Years (Age 30)

1965 - 1968 Flight Surgeon Texas National Guard (Age 33)

Ron Paul was a flight surgeon, making sure pilots were healthy to fly, for 5 years, not delivering babies or in an OBGYN residency, that I can find any record of.

So, What IS a Flight Surgeon?

Flight Surgeon requirements as listed today

Flight surgeons are medical doctors, either MDs or DOs...

They perform routine, periodic medical examinations ("flight physicals") of these personnel.

In the U.S military, flight surgeons are trained to fill general public health and occupational and preventive medicine roles, and are only infrequently "surgeons" in an operating theater sense

MORE QUESTIONS:  The US had entered the Viet Nam war in 1961.  

U.S. involvement escalated in the early 1960s, with troop levels tripling in 1961 and tripling again in 1962.[28]  U.S. combat units were deployed beginning in 1965.

QUESTIONS:  

Was graduating from Medical School and a year of being an intern enough to enlist as a Flight Surgeon in 1963, too?  

How could Ron Paul be in the Texas National Guard while living in Pennsylvania?

We do know that in 1963 Ron Paul lived in Pennsysvania because that is where Rand Paul was born. Rand was the middle of five children.  

Paul left the Air Force after two years to join the Texas National Guard before the worst part of the Viet Nam war began.  

Two sources state that Paul moved to Texas AFTER completing his military service IN the Texas Air National Guard.

He and his wife Carol moved to Texas in 1968, where he began his medical practice in Brazoria County.

Upon arriving in Texas, Paul continued his medical work. Specifically trained in obstetrics and gynecology, Paul then began his own practice.

QUESTIONS:

Was Ron Paul in the Texas National Guard before he and his wife moved to Texas?

When and where did Ron Paul complete his OBGYN Residency?  

Where are his Medical licenses for the world to see?  

Did Ron Paul ever work for a Group and/or a hospital for further training before starting his own practice?  

Where are records showing he completed obligatory continued medical education hours?  OBGYNs are required to continue their training until they stop practicing because the field changes so quickly?

Did Ron Paul open his OBGYN practice in Texas at the same time he spent with the Texas Air National Guard?

Paul lived in Lake Jackson, Brazoria County, Texas, although most sites just say Brazoria County.

QUESTIONS:  What does it look like there?  

Lake Jackson, Brazoria County, Texas is not that big of a place.  In 1968 it had to be the tiny town that the refinery workers lived in.  

 Can someone help figure this out?
Thanks.

FOR FUN:  Here's a picture of Captain Ron Paul.    The two bars indicate rank of Captain.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/...(I-think)

THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED WHEN I TRIED TO SEARCH FOR RON PAUL'S, or any doctor for that matter on the Texas Medical Board site:

So, I go here

http://www.tmb.state.tx.us/

And there is a link LOOK UP DOCTOR

That takes me here

http://reg.tmb.state.tx.us/...

And I find this message

Data last updated on Tuesday, January 10, 2012
Searching this database allows you to view information about physicians, physician assistants and acupuncturists licensed by the State of Texas, as well as individuals holding a temporary physician or physician assistant license, or current physician-in-training permits.  

Our licensees submit some of the data. For information on data the Board has verified please click here.

Data is updated daily and may be considered the most current information available. Access to this computer system is authorized for the automated verification system only. All other access to this computer system is expressly prohibited. Any unauthorized access or use of this is subject to both civil and criminal penalties.

Civil and criminal for unauthorized access?  It's TEXAS, that is frightening language.

I didn't dare click on the I ACCEPT USAGE TERMS, quite frankly.

So I clicked on the here.

Which takes me here:

http://www.tmb.state.tx.us/...

And this is what it says:

The Texas Medical board has a website located at http://www.tmb.state.tx.us . We have a public web based verification system that is run in-house located on our website. To access this database choose the link “Look up a Licensee” from our home page. This database will provide links to view Board Orders, where applicable.

So I click on the link hoping to find the option "Look up a Licensee” and there is none.

I'm back where I began.  There is no "Look up a Licensee" link.  I do use a Mac, maybe a PC would have better luck.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

UPDATE:

Where in Pittsburg, PA did Ron Paul do his residency to qualify as a Family Practitioner and/or OBGYN?

According to the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG), certification requires 4 years of residency and passing tests, etc.

I did find this

Ron Paul diplomate verification

From the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG)

What training is required and what is covered?

The obstetrician-gynecologist goes through four years of specialized residency training in areas dealing with preconceptional health, pregnancy, labor and childbirth, postpartum care, genetics, genetic counseling and prenatal diagnosis.

Training in gynecology also covers women's general health, including care of reproductive organs, breasts and sexual function.

Screening for cancer at multiple sites is performed or initiated by the Ob-Gyn specialist.

Gynecology also includes management of hormonal disorders, treatment of infections, and training in surgery to correct or treat pelvic organ and urinary tract problems to include cancer of the reproductive organs.

During four years of training, the obstetrician-gynecologist learns about aspects of preventive health care, including exams and routine tests that look for problems before you are sick, immunizations, overall health and provision of care for a range of medical problems, not just those of the reproductive system.

And I found this, although the origin of this information isn't clear:

Gets drafted into the United States Air Force

Paul's medical training was interrupted when he was drafted during the Cuban Missile Crisis into the United States Air Force.

He remained in the military during the early years of the Vietnam War. He was never sent to Vietnam, instead serving active duty (1963–1965) that took him to other countries, including South Korea, Iran, Ethiopia and Turkey.

He served as a flight surgeon out of Kelly Air Force Base in San Antonio, Texas, from 1963 to 1965, attending to the ear, nose and throat problems of pilots.

He then served in the Air National Guard from 1965 to 1968 while completing his medical residency in Pittsburgh.

I also searched the American Board of Family Medicine, but it resulted in no record for Ron Paul:

Ron Paul not shown having Family Practice Certification

I also found this from The American Congress of Obsetricians and Gynecologits (ACOG) Physician Lookup.  Ron Paul is listed as a

LF / FL    Life Fellow or Founding Life Fellow/ any Fellow of the College who has 25 years of active Fellowship and has chosen to retire.

Ron Paul is not listed on the American Board of Family Medicine.

Ron Paul not shown having Family Practice Certification

In a GOP debate, Ron Paul says he worked at a hospital in San Antonio:

PAUL: I practiced medicine before we had Medicaid, in the early 1960s, when I got out of medical school. I practiced at Santa Rosa Hospital in San Antonio, and the churches took care of them. We never turned anybody away from the hospitals.

Medicare and Medicaid became law in 1965.

QUESTION:  In the early 1960s Ron Paul's bio says he was at DUKE and a hospital in Michigan, returning to Pittsburg, PA to complete his residency.  It also states that he moved to Texas in 1968.  So his GOP debate answer refering to work in a San Antonio hospital in the early 1960s conflicts with the bios.  Also, San Antonio is 240 miles from Paul's stated Texas town that he moved to in 1968, Lake Jackson, Tx.

So, the question remains:

Where, in Pittsburgh, PA did Ron Paul complete his residency?  What is the name of the hospital?

Poll

Is it possible to legally Practice OBGYN w/o License in Texas?

40%19 votes
17%8 votes
42%20 votes

| 47 votes | Vote | Results

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (5+ / 0-)

    It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

    by War on Error on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 01:24:12 AM PST

  •  I thought Ron Paul was a General Practictioner (5+ / 0-)

    who delivered babies.  Not an OB-GYN specialist.

    Occupy The Voting Booth - vote for candidates that represent your Occupy values.

    by mumtaznepal on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 01:38:40 AM PST

    •  But I found this on some website about 2012 (3+ / 0-)

      candidates (accuracy guess your own)

      http://2012.republican-candidates.org/...

      • Ron Paul did his internship and residency at Henry Ford Hospital in Detroit, MI.

      • He became an obstetrician and gynecologist, delivering over 4,000 babies to date. He opened his own practice in Texas.

      Occupy The Voting Booth - vote for candidates that represent your Occupy values.

      by mumtaznepal on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 01:41:41 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  And check this out, too (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        War on Error

        Occupy The Voting Booth - vote for candidates that represent your Occupy values.

        by mumtaznepal on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 01:44:19 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Thanks, but his debate answer (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          lostinamerica
          No. I practiced medicine before we had Medicaid in the early 1960s when I got out of medical school. I practiced at Santa Rosa hospital in San Antonio. And the churches took care of them.

          Isn't substantiated in any biographies.

          It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

          by War on Error on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 01:53:56 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  have you checked his information on his state (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            War on Error

            medical board site?  The state sites i am aware of have fairly comprehensive CVs for the physicians they license

            •  Yes, see comment below. It was a frustrating (0+ / 0-)

              and unrequited effort that included a Civil and Criminal threat from the State of Texas.  True.

              It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

              by War on Error on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 03:04:20 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  You're being overly dramatic. It's a (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                BPARTR, Villanova Rhodes

                public website to be used to check on a doc's credentials. It's there for the public. ALL government websites use those warnings.

                I followed your link and found all the info on Paul's license.

                There's a difference in a board certified specialty, and a doctor who specializes in a specific area. In the 60s thru about the late 80s early 90s, MOST family docs were also OB/GYNs.

                Let me know when you find his birth certificate. . .

                "TEABAGGER=Totally Enraged About Blacks And Gays Getting Equal Rights."

                by second gen on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 07:43:02 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

            •  But really, If you were a Doctor (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              lostinamerica

              touting OBGYN specialty on your campaign site, wouldn't you state where you did your residency and show your license and renewal licenses?

              I would.

              Without which, the thought finding out my OBGYN hadn't done a residency would freak me out.

              Conversely, the thought or cognitive dissonance that women have for their own OBGYN could be transferred to Ron Paul to his advantage.

              It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

              by War on Error on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 03:07:46 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  in other states doctors have been (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                semiot, War on Error

                sanctioned by their medical boards for advertising or claiming board certifications which they did not possess.  In some cases the doc skated around the issue by weasel wording but claiming board certification where you don't have it can get your license suspended  

            •  Updated diary this AM w/additional information (0+ / 0-)

              I found some additional information and added it to the end of the diary.

              The question still remains:

              Where in Pittsburgh, PA did Paul complete his residency to qualify as an OBGYN?

              It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

              by War on Error on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 12:00:31 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  He's getting a lot of mileage out of that story, (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          War on Error

          and I have no reason to think it's not true as to that couple. But it is odd that he would have a blanket policy to treat Medicare (not just Medicaid) patients for free. They could simply refuse to take Medicare assignment and then charge the patients whatever they liked -- some would be able to pay and some wouldn't, but there would be no reason to assume that someone eligible for Medicare couldn't pay. Makes me wonder if he really understood what Medicare was at that point. An OB/GYN practice is likely to be skewed heavily toward younger non-Medicare age patients, so maybe he just didn't know any better.

          •  Here's what DailyBeast reported (0+ / 0-)

            Yes, Ron Paul Has 4,000 Babies  by McKay Coppins, Nina Strochlic Jan 3, 2012 12:48 PM EST In another life, the presidential candidate was the only ob/gyn in Lake Jackson, Texas. McKay Coppins and Nina Strochlic caught up with some of his patients to ask about the doctor’s bedside manner.

            And Paul put his overtaxed money where his Ayn Rand-quoting mouth was: he famously refused to accept Medicare and Medicaid payments from his patients, opting instead to provide free services to expectant mothers in need.

            If he was delivering a baby a day, I'd say he was a practicing OBGYN.

            He says so, too.  This is on Ron Paul's website:

            ABOUT  RON PAUL

            Ron Paul was born and raised in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. He graduated from Gettysburg College and the Duke University School of Medicine, before proudly serving as a flight surgeon in the U.S. Air Force during the 1960s. He and his wife Carol moved to Texas in 1968, where he began his medical practice in Brazoria County. As a specialist in obstetrics/gynecology, Dr. Paul has delivered more than 4,000 babies!

            From Wikipedia

            The Social Security Act of 1965 was signed into law on July 30, 1965, by President Lyndon B. Johnson as amendments to existing Social Security legislation. This legislation included the establishing of the Medicare program.

            It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

            by War on Error on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 02:15:01 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Of course he was practicing OB/GYN. (5+ / 0-)

              Who said he wasn't? That doesn't mean he had to have had a residency in OB/GYN. In most if not all areas, a licensed medical doctor doesn't have to be board certified to legally deliver babies. Or practice psychiatry. Or plastic surgery. And so on.

              You seem hellbent on finding some impropriety here that I don't see, but knock yourself out. Maybe one of the docs will come by and explain this to your satisfaction. I don't need any new evidence to convince me not to vote for the guy -- it has never crossed my mind -- so I guess I just don't care that much about his medical career either.

              •  I'm not hell bent on anything other than (0+ / 0-)

                Finding the information

                The timeline and the Case of the Other "Flight Surgeon" don't indicate that Ron Paul fulfilled the requirements to be a licensed physician.

                Until the timeline is satisfied and the documents are produced, the questions remain open.

                What's with people today?  Why are reasonable questions attacked?

                Something isn't gelling.

                It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

                by War on Error on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 03:10:24 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Henry Ford Hospital was satisfied. He passed (8+ / 0-)

                  the medical boards (apparently).USAF was satisfied. Texas Air National Guard was satisfied. Texas Medical Board was satisfied.  Every hospital he's ever had admitting privileges with has been satisfied. And whoever his professional liability carriers have been all these years have been satisfied.

                  So you'll excuse me if I say that you're applying 2011 standards to a 1962 world. Things were different then. My sister was delivered by a general practioner trained by the Navy. She was born C-section, and yes, he did that too. That doctor had no formal residency. He was off on hospital ships saving lives during war. He was trained by the Navy. Period. He specialized in ob-gyn and peds. That's how things were. Doctors did what they liked to do and called themselves specialists.

                  At some point, when a lot of people point out that perhaps you haven't considered A,B,C, etc, and you still don't budge, well, I think you're just wedded to an idea that doesnt exist.

                  Or Ron Paul, like Barack Obama, also knew back in the early 1960s that he was going to run for president, so he created an elaborate falsehood....

                  © grover


                  So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not.

                  by grover on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 03:43:13 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

          •  FYI Updated diary this AM w/add'l info (0+ / 0-)

            I found some additional information and added it to the end of the diary.

            The question still remains:

            Where in Pittsburgh, PA did Paul complete his residency to qualify as an OBGYN?

            It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

            by War on Error on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 12:01:59 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  On his campaign website it says (0+ / 0-)

          About Ron Paul

          He graduated from Gettysburg College and the Duke University School of Medicine, before proudly serving as a flight surgeon in the U.S. Air Force during the 1960s. He and his wife Carol moved to Texas in 1968, where he began his medical practice in Brazoria County. As a specialist in obstetrics/gynecology, Dr. Paul has delivered more than 4,000 babies!

          It was seeing this claim that prompted me to check for a timeline.

          It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

          by War on Error on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 02:19:00 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Check the facts as they were found above (0+ / 0-)

        There's no residency.  Read the example of other Flight Surgeon.

        It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

        by War on Error on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 01:50:23 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  That's is campaign statements. (0+ / 0-)

        There is no information available that shows where he did a residency.

        It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

        by War on Error on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 01:53:09 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  These are words on a Candidate website (0+ / 0-)

        not empirical evidence.

        There is a gap of information.

        Hoping ppl can either fill the gap, or demand empirical evidence that has everything to do with integrity.

        It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

        by War on Error on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 09:56:06 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Diary updated this AM (0+ / 0-)

        I found some additional information and added it to the end of the diary.

        The question still remains:

        Where in Pittsburgh, PA did Paul complete his residency to qualify as an OBGYN?

        It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

        by War on Error on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 11:59:57 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  I think that in most if not all states, (6+ / 0-)

    one does not get a different license for each specialty. He got a Texas medical license, which is still active, in 1963. Are you thinking of board certification and not licensing, perhaps? I have no idea if he's board certified, but there's no reason to think he wasn't licensed to practice medicine.

    I can't speak to the National Guard questions, but I'm not sure why you conclude that the Pauls were living in PA just because Rand was born there. At least three of my siblings were born in states other than where our parents were living at the time. It wasn't uncommon for wives of deployed servicemembers to give birth where their parents lived rather than alone in the servicemember's new hometown.

    Happy hunting!

    •  Where is this license? (0+ / 0-)

      He did no residency that I can find a record of.

      He did a year internship and then was trained by the Air Force to be a "Flight Surgeon"

      Read the diary.

      I think there's a timeline problem until Ron Paul provides documents to prove otherwise, imo.

      It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

      by War on Error on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 01:55:25 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Texas Medical Board shows for him: (5+ / 0-)

        Date of Birth: 1935
        License Number: D0721 Full Medical License
        Issuance Date: 06/18/1963
        Expiration Date of Physician’s Annual Registration Permit: 02/28/2013

        Link

        You may be relying on general statements of what is required to become a board certified OB/GYN, or training required to get malpractice insurance in that specialty NOW, not what was required in 1963 to deliver babies.

        When in doubt, I fall back on asking whether someone in elective office would already have been vetted by someone else who wants his job. When the answer is Yes, as in this case or in the case of President Obama's birthplace, I look for much stronger evidence that there's a problem than you have raised here. But you could always be the first to turn over the rock, so good luck.

        •  This is what I get when I go to your link (0+ / 0-)

          Microsoft OLE DB Provider for ODBC Drivers error '80004005'

          [Microsoft][ODBC Driver Manager] Data source name not found and no default driver specified

          /OnLineVerif/Phys_ReportVerif.asp, line 92

          It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

          by War on Error on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 02:20:08 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Oh, well. (4+ / 0-)

            Try googling Texas Medical Board and look him up yourself. Took less than a minute. If I knew how to post a screencap, I would, but I'm at the end of my interest in this subject. Sorry.

            •  Ok, trying to do that (0+ / 0-)

              So, I go here

              http://www.tmb.state.tx.us/

              And there is a link LOOK UP DOCTOR

              That takes me here

              http://reg.tmb.state.tx.us/...

              And I find this message

              Data last updated on Tuesday, January 10, 2012

              Searching this database allows you to view information about physicians, physician assistants and acupuncturists licensed by the State of Texas, as well as individuals holding a temporary physician or physician assistant license, or current physician-in-training permits.  

              Our licensees submit some of the data. For information on data the Board has verified please click here.

              Data is updated daily and may be considered the most current information available. Access to this computer system is authorized for the automated verification system only. All other access to this computer system is expressly prohibited. Any unauthorized access or use of this is subject to both civil and criminal penalties.

              Civil and criminal for unauthorized access?  It's TEXAS, that is frightening language.

              I didn't dare click on the I ACCEPT USAGE TERMS, quite frankly.

              So I clicked on the here.

              Which takes me here:

              http://www.tmb.state.tx.us/...

              And this is what it says:

              The Texas Medical board has a website located at http://www.tmb.state.tx.us . We have a public web based verification system that is run in-house located on our website. To access this database choose the link “Look up a Licensee” from our home page. This database will provide links to view Board Orders, where applicable.

              So I click on the link hoping to find the option "Look up a Licensee” and there is none.

              I'm back where I began.

              Very frustrating.

              Admittedly, I have been up all night, so am not fully functioning at this point.

              THANK YOU for dropping in.

              I'm sure this will all get solved, but at this point it remains a mystery to me.

              It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

              by War on Error on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 02:45:28 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  So I Googled (0+ / 0-)

            http://reg.tmb.state.tx.us/...

            And only found one Google Hit.

            I found this conversation

            REBOUND SAYS

            09-28-2011, 11:27 PM
            During the Republican debates, Ron Paul - who's allegedly a physician!! -- said someone without medical insurance or money who needs urgent care should be denied healthcare and allowed to die, and this comment drew applause and no reaction from the other Republican candidates.

            And HAWK responds

            Not, allegedly....

            http://reg.tmb.state.tx.us/...
            redmaxx


            It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

            by War on Error on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 02:26:11 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  Not just then. Now: (5+ / 0-)

          Doctors can do medical procedures. Period.

          If your opthamologist wants to start offering colonoscopies, he is free to do so (in, I think, all 50 states, although it's possible a few states have restrictions about the attendant anesthesia. But I doubt it). If he wants to call himself a "specialist" at this second procedure,  he can do so.  (Interestingly, veterinarians have to be board-certified to call themselves specialists, but not human doctors. I guess Fido and Fluffy have better lobbyists).

          How far can a doctor deviate from his training? This gives some indication into what doctors are doing today, simply because it's lucrative: http://www.cnn.com/...

          Now, if  I,  the professional liability insurer for a doctor with training and priviledges in one field, find out that he is practicing in a field that he has zero experience and little training, I would probably drop him like a hot rock.

          But Dr. Paul seems to have tons of experience and training within the military system (which if I recall correctly, didn't have a rotations residency program comparable to the lay system years ago). So I don't see (without knowing anything about a claims history) anything on the surface that makes him a bad insurance risk.  

          Unless he's doing Botox injections too.

          :)

          © grover


          So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not.

          by grover on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 02:47:45 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  What you write applies to a Doctor. (0+ / 0-)

            This isn't THE QUESTION the diary is asking, though.

            We are looking for his Residency Experience and Letter

            Residency Requirements
            Upon completing medical school, students are required to serve as a resident. This residency is similar to an apprenticeship. It involves working under the supervision of licensed, competent doctors within a particular field of medicine. Most states require at least 1 year of general residency, and at least 1 year of residency within a specific field. Some specialties, including various forms of surgery, require several years of residency.

            Students must be accepted into a residency program based on their medical school performance. Upon completing residency, students generally obtain a letter of reference from a supervising physician. Many state medical licensing boards require this letter of reference before issuing a medical license.

             

            It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

            by War on Error on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 02:59:34 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  That's the civilian residency system. (3+ / 0-)

              The military has its own system. And I am pretty sure that in the past, the military system didn't have a comprehensive rotations system,  which the current military system does now (it was changed to help the military compete for the best and brightest).

              That's why so many old-time military doctors are "just" general practioners.

              Different but parallel  systems. What you're doing is equivalent to comparing West Point to Harvard. Same outcome in theory  but how you get there is different.

              © grover


              So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not.

              by grover on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 03:13:53 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  And, yes, Grover Fido and Fluffy have better (0+ / 0-)

            lobbyists.

            I know a woman who had her hand surgeon do her fact life.

            I guess he had hired a lady who had worked for a plastic surgeon that talked him into "branching out".

            He botched it and had to do it over again.  I wonder what really happened in that surgery facility shared by about a dozen plastic surgeons?  Because she looked pretty good after the second surgery.  Did the hand guy do the 2nd?  No one will every know.  She doesn't have reall ear lobes anymore, though.  shuddering.

            It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

            by War on Error on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 03:02:52 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  also in delivering babies, FPs and GPs (3+ / 0-)

          also deliver babies, though most have quit due to malpractice costs;  as I remember things it was 1969 before OB/GYNs had to complete the current requirements for internship and residency

          •  Will you provide proof of that with a link> (0+ / 0-)

            I just did some searching and can find nothing to back up that things changed in 1969.

            Again, it's Ron Paul that says he specialized as OBGYN

            If he had been a licensed doctor, he wouldn't have been a Flight Surgeon he would have worked at an Air Force hospital.

            The case of the other Flight Surgeon at the beginning of th diary demonstrates this.

            Thank you for commenting.

            It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

            by War on Error on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 03:17:15 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  much of the information related to the history of (2+ / 0-)

              the development of medical education requirements is either not available online or else is behind subscription walls.  As I stated this was from memory from working to certify an OB GYN who had trained during that era.  
              Standardization of medical education did not begin until 1912 so medical education has been in a state of evolution during much of the 20th century.  As i remember my research, at least some of the information was contained in information provided by individual schools of medicine as to their personal histories.
              If the concern is that a doctor is boarded then the site of the ABMS should provide this information with little difficulty while many states' medical licensing sites provide disciplinary actions against physicians.

    •  It is also possible (being a Devil's (3+ / 0-)

      Advocate here) that Paul was stationed in Texas (for training, perhaps?) and did not bring his family with him.  His wife would have then given birth where she resided, in PA.  The laws of domicile are such that you become a resident of a state when you leave your prior domicle with no intention of returning.  While a wife and children remaining behind in PA would constitute indicia of an intention to return, there are other factors which could explain a possible change of residency for Paul.

      I don't know the facts.  Particularly, when he actually first was physically located in Texas.  Assuming arguendo that he was posted to Texas, indicia of an intent to establish residency would have included things like getting a Texas driver's license, registering to vote there, purchasing a home, and the like.  

      In any case, you raise legitimate questions.  You might want to also look into whether he actually ever claimed to be board-certified as an OBGYN and when he started making that claim and what the requirements for certification were at that time.

      Ultimately, the only thing that matters with respect to preserving choice is who will be nominating the next Supreme Court Justices.

      by Its the Supreme Court Stupid on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 02:06:23 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Oops. Meant this to be a standalone (3+ / 0-)

        and not a reply to Villanova Rhodes

        Ultimately, the only thing that matters with respect to preserving choice is who will be nominating the next Supreme Court Justices.

        by Its the Supreme Court Stupid on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 02:06:55 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  This is from Ron Paul's website (0+ / 0-)

        ABOUT RON PAUL

        Ron Paul was born and raised in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. He graduated from Gettysburg College and the Duke University School of Medicine, before proudly serving as a flight surgeon in the U.S. Air Force during the 1960s. He and his wife Carol moved to Texas in 1968, where he began his medical practice in Brazoria County. As a specialist in obstetrics/gynecology, Dr. Paul has delivered more than 4,000 babies!

        Most specialists are very careful to name where they performed their residency.

        I've tried many searches, but can't find the information.

        Whether he was a resident of Texas when the was in the Texas Air National guard is secondary, but it's hard not to forget the fuzzy account of GW Bush's time with the same organization, although probably not the same location.

        I do know that The Family has worked for 80 years to find and promote radical thinkers.  Ron Paul certainly qualifies for that.

        In this DailyBeast article, the few patients the DB found said they got Ron Paul political lectures.

        She says Dr. Paul wasn’t the type for chitchat, but whenever conversation did stray from her pregnancy, it inevitably turned to libertarian issues.

        “You went in and you got an education on the gold standard,” she says. “That’s what he talked about when you were on the table.”


        It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

        by War on Error on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 02:31:53 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I am pretty sure that it varies from (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          erush1345, Villanova Rhodes

          state to state, but the threshold for an ethical violation arises only if one claims to be board certified as a specialist, rather than simply claiming to be a specialist.  Again, rules vary from state to state, but it is POSSIBLE that, in Texas, at least, it is not an ethical violation.

          Paul certainly went beyond the realm of ethical behaviour by delivering political lectures to his patients.  No doubt in my mind about that.  

          As for his medical license, it may be that at the time Texas counts service as a Flight Surgeon towards his medical residency for purposes of granting a license.  That would probably not constitute OBGYN residency for purposes of board certification, but it could, conceivably, provide a basis for his being granted a general medical license.

          Again, I am not attacking your premise.  Simply being a Devil's Advocate regarding the facts that you have presented.

          Ultimately, the only thing that matters with respect to preserving choice is who will be nominating the next Supreme Court Justices.

          by Its the Supreme Court Stupid on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 03:20:41 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Rand Paul was born Jan. 7, 1963. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Villanova Rhodes

        He was presumably born before Ron Paul joined the Air Force, so Rand Paul's birthplace doesn't seem germane to the discussion to me.

        You can't scare me, I'm sticking to the Union - Woody Guthrie

        by sewaneepat on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 05:33:38 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  His birthplace being in PA was raised (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Villanova Rhodes

          by the diarist as an indicia that Ron was a PA resident at the time of the birth.  While that is probably the case, there are possible scenarios in which he might have established residence in another state (eg Texas) despite the fact that his pregnant wife remained behind in PA.  But, yes, it is a side issue.

          Ultimately, the only thing that matters with respect to preserving choice is who will be nominating the next Supreme Court Justices.

          by Its the Supreme Court Stupid on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 06:42:42 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I agree there are other ways he could have (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Villanova Rhodes

            established residency in TX but my point is that since it was all before he even joined the AF, it doesn't matter a hill of beans.

            You can't scare me, I'm sticking to the Union - Woody Guthrie

            by sewaneepat on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 06:46:52 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I updated the diary w/additional information (0+ / 0-)

              I found some additional information and added it to the end of the diary.

              The question still remains:

              Where in Pittsburgh, PA did Paul complete his residency to qualify as an OBGYN?

              It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

              by War on Error on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 12:06:40 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  All the biographies for Ron Paul (0+ / 0-)

          state that

          Mr. and Mrs Paul moved to Texas after his miliary experience.

          It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

          by War on Error on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 09:40:23 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Well, got some sleep. Updated diary (0+ / 0-)

        I found some additional information and added it to the end of the diary.

        The question still remains:

        Where in Pittsburgh, PA did Paul complete his residency to qualify as an OBGYN?

        btw, THANK YOU for saying

        In any case, you raise legitimate questions.

        I appreciate the kind validation very much.

        It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

        by War on Error on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 12:05:00 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  one license to practice medicine (4+ / 0-)

      board certification is another matter since a physician does not have to be board certified in order to practice medicine.  Some physicians are double or even triple boarded by various specialty boards but all of them have only one license per state

      •  All true. Paul's timeline, however, doesn't (0+ / 0-)

        show him qualifying for a medical license.

        Either residency data is missing in all the research, including his own website, or he didn't get this medical license.

        And if he did get his medical license, he would have entered the Air Force as a medical doctor, not a Flight Surgeon (which isn't really a surgeon)

        See case study in diary.

        It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

        by War on Error on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 03:19:25 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  he should have received his medcal license (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Villanova Rhodes

          upon completion of medical school and passing either USMLE steps 1-3 or FLEX, assuming licensing requirements were the same as they are currently.  The original license does not require completion of an internship as interns themselves have to be licensed.  This is why passing the USMLE is so critical for medical graduates in the Match

          •  He received a doctorate from DUKE (0+ / 0-)

            not a medical license.

            Again, read the diary where the terms of medical licensing are spelled out.

            Thanks

            It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

            by War on Error on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 09:41:41 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  medical license is awarded upon (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              War on Error

              completion of MD. Without license you would not be allowed to participate in residency.  PhD, if that is what you mean by doctorate, is not basis for license; if he received MD from Duke, he received license from NC and then license from state where residency is located.  Please, I have lived through this process

              •  Thanks, entlord (0+ / 0-)

                So, based on your analysis and Ron Paul's timeline

                He would be able to show medical licenses from

                North Carolina
                Michigan
                Pennsylvania
                Texas

                Yet, he shows no licences on line and only one year/intern in Michigan.

                We aren't arguing the process.

                We are looking for proof to support Paul's claims.

                Integrity is a big issue in the Paul camp.

                It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

                by War on Error on Thu Jan 12, 2012 at 09:33:34 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

        •  no (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Villanova Rhodes

          Flight surgeons are medical doctors.  The armed services often deploy physicians after only completing their internships.  There is no necessity that Paul ever complete a residency.  While specialization and residency is the norm now, it was not so in 1963.  He may specialize in OB/Gyn without ever completing a specific residency in OB/Gyn.  A medical licene  is a license in medicine and surgery- I am an anesthesiologist (Board certified) but I am a physician and surgeon as far as the State of CAlifornia is concerned.  If a hospital gave me priviledges, I could do brain surgery or cardiac surgery or deliver babies.  ( Actually, I used to occasionally deliver babies if the OB didn't arrive in time.)

          As long as Paul had completed medical school , passed the mdical boards and completed an internship, he was qualifeid to be a flight surgeon.  As long as the local hospitals gave him privileges, he was qualified to deliver babies.

          This is a diary based upon complete misunderstanding of the medical education, licensing and military systems.

          As my father used to say,"We have the best government money can buy."

          by BPARTR on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 09:40:42 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I updated diary w/add'l information (0+ / 0-)

            I found some additional information and added it to the end of the diary.

            The question still remains:

            Where in Pittsburgh, PA did Paul complete his residency to qualify as an OBGYN?

            It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

            by War on Error on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 12:07:26 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  readmy lips- (0+ / 0-)

              He did not need to complete a residency to qualify as a physician specializing in OB/GYN.  Whether or not he did so is not particularly interesting to me.  Would I go to a physician who was not board certified in 2012?No.  Would I have done so in 1963, of course.  Further, some of the comments imply that he was grandfathered into the Board at some point.

              As my father used to say,"We have the best government money can buy."

              by BPARTR on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 01:18:08 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Having read your lips, may I add (0+ / 0-)

                1.  An OBGYN absolutely has to complete residency.  I cite several examples from reputal sites to back this up.

                You don't.

                2.  To be interesting isn't the purpose of this collaborative effort.  Answering questions is.

                3.  Board certification is not required to be an OBGYN, a minimum 4 year residency is, according to the American Board of Obstetrics & Gynecology.  ABO&G Certification has a higher bar for qualifying initially for certification, and requires continued compliance to maintain certification.

                4. I agree.  

                5.  Grandfathered in comments.  I didn't see any of those.  Do you have any links.  I would like to add to diary.

                Thank you for dropping in.

                It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

                by War on Error on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 01:30:26 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

  •  An Army or Air National Guardsman may serve in any (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PeterHug, Villanova Rhodes

    states' guard as it is all apart of the military's early Total Force policy.

    •  Did that apply to the Airforce and Air Nat'l Guard (0+ / 0-)

      From Wikipedia

      The Total Force Policy was adopted by Chief of Staff of the Army General Creighton Abrams in the aftermath of the Vietnam War and involves treating the three components of the army – the Regular Army, the Army National Guard and the Army Reserve as a single force.[11]

      And this says that Total Force Policy didn't start until 1973, after Paul left

      Chapter 9 TOTAL FORCE INTEGRATION

      Since its adoption in 1973, the Total Force Policy has guided decisions about how people available to the Department of Defense—active, Reserve component (RC), retired military, federal civilian, Service auxiliaries, and contractors—are structured to protect the nation’s interests. The integrated capabilities of the Total Force are essential to successfully implementing U.S. defense strategy and, indeed, are a prerequisite to a cost-effective force structure.

      It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

      by War on Error on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 02:50:43 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  The Depts of the Army and Air Force both operate (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        PeterHug, Villanova Rhodes

        within the policy of total intergration of the their reserve components into their active force.  This includes the Army and Air National Guard units.  In peace time, those units within the state report to the Gov through the Adjutant General (a political appointment)  Upon federal activiation, the units will be assigned to a respective active senior headquarters.  Prior to the implementation of Total Force, the same general policy was in effect.  During Vietnam. the reserve components were not extensively utilized as opposed to what happened during the Iraq war.  However, it is to be remembered that during the Cuban Missile crisis that large Guard units (Divisions) were activited for projected use in US Army corps and field armies in Europe.

        Back to the original question, National Guard and federal Reserve units near state borders can easily have members from two or three different states.

    •  Updated diary this AM w/add'l information (0+ / 0-)

      I found some additional information and added it to the end of the diary.

      The question still remains:

      Where in Pittsburgh, PA did Paul complete his residency to qualify as an OBGYN?

      Is it possible to both complete a residency AND serve as a Flight Surgeon in the Air Force?  Is Flight Surgeon a part time job for a Captain in the Air Force?  

      Thanks.  

      It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

      by War on Error on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 12:09:39 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  a couple of years ago I was involved in (3+ / 0-)

    credentialing an OB/GYN who had graduated from med school in 1954.  Though he was board certified, he had not completed an OB/GYN residency and we went through the appeals process with several carriers regarding the history of OB/GYN as a specialty and more specifically the development of educational requirements for board certification  From memory it seems it was 1969 when the current requirements for board certification were adopted.  Some general information on the history of medical education is here http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...

    However, for an OB/GYN trained in the 50s and early 60s to not have completed residency requirements similar to the ones currently in effect is not uncommon.  Unfortunately information regarding the history of the development of medical educational standards is not readily available online

    •  Paul finished 4 years at Duke (0+ / 0-)

      Went for an internship, not a residency, l in Michigan for less than two years, maybe only a year and then became a Flight Surgeon, not a medical doctor for the Air Force.

      There is a difference between Internship and Residency

      In the olden days, the first year after med school you served as and intern. "in"tern because you lived in the hospital.

      The years after you were a resident.

       Back then it was fairly common to do these a different hospitals. In esense, everybody did a transitional year internship after med school (rotate through departments just like 3rd year of med school). Now, most people match in a specialty and go straight through. Out of tradition, first year residents (as we are often called) are still known as interns.

      It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

      by War on Error on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 03:28:13 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  the term internship is really falling into disuse (3+ / 0-)

        at least in the field of FP since completion of the program is necessary for board certification.  In the old days, a doctor could complete a year of internship and then be licensed to practice medicine independently.  The completion of a residency as opposed to the internship has more to do with board certification where the internship is concerned with licensure.

        •  Just not true. Please, include documentation (0+ / 0-)

          to back up what you say.

          In this comment stream just before your coment here, I have.  There is still a difference in the internship (1st year after 4 years of med school) and residency, although because ppl today jump into a "field" of study, the year of internship and following YEARS of residency are sometimes termed RESIDENCY.

          Intern is ONE and first year after med school. PERIOD.

          It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

          by War on Error on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 09:54:23 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Yes, in those days (0+ / 0-)

    a general practicianer could deliver babies. But he would not have been an OB/GYN which is a specialty today.

    Remember Bush moved from Texas Guard to some other Guard.

    Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.

    by MrMichaelMT on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 04:03:23 AM PST

  •  I don't see the point of this. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Catte Nappe, Villanova Rhodes

    If you make the minutiae of Paul's pre-politics career part of your indictment, you make it easy for him to rebut you and that ends up vindicating his crazy ideas.  Paul's a bad candidate because too many of his ideas are bad ideas.  That ought to be enough especially since he's not going to be the Republican nominee any more than I am.

    But nobody's buying flowers from the flower lady.

    by Rich in PA on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 05:02:51 AM PST

    •  Really Rich? (0+ / 0-)

      Paul has so many thinking he is a pargon of integrity, a bullwark of ideals.

      The Timeline shows a discernable gap in his medical licensing.  That is an important "detail" to be resolved.

      It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

      by War on Error on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 09:44:06 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  updated diary this AM (0+ / 0-)

      I found some additional information and added it to the end of the diary.

      The question still remains:

      Where in Pittsburgh, PA did Paul complete his residency to qualify as an OBGYN?

      It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

      by War on Error on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 12:10:41 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  FYI: (3+ / 0-)

      I agreed to the TOS and clicked on the license board for Paul.  He can say that he is a "specialist" - in the sense that is all that he does, but according to the site, he has not completed any Specialist Training in OB/GYN.

    http://reg.tmb.state.tx.us/...

       Then I went to the American Board of OBGYN and they have him listed as certified in 1970.   So, perhaps back then, there was no requirement for completion of a residency program.

    http://www.abog.org/...

    •  Updated diary this AM w/additional info (0+ / 0-)

      I found some additional information and added it to the end of the diary.

      The question still remains:

      Where in Pittsburgh, PA did Paul complete his residency to qualify as an OBGYN?

      It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

      by War on Error on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 12:11:20 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Sheesh (0+ / 0-)

    You think there's some coverup because you have to accept some terms of agreement before you can have access.

    I suppose you don't have flash or acrobat reader, either.

    Your 'other flight surgeon' example says that

    More than ten years after completing medical school, Georgia returned to Bethesda Naval Hospital to do a residency in diagnostic radiology.
     

    Diagnostic radiology is a specialty, so yes, he did require more training. Just don't try to tell me he didn't read x-rays before that.

    In short, it proves nothing except that a further specialty that may not have even existed during the time of Paul's training and at a much later time period than Paul's training required more training.

    Find the proof that requirements were the SAME during Paul's time period, and you might have a case. Maybe it's time that you did the work, instead of your readers.

    Every flower that you shatter; we will plant again!

    by merrily1000 on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 05:55:49 AM PST

  •  Is this diary trying to redefine "birther" (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Villanova Rhodes, War on Error

    The most important way to protect the environment is not to have more than one child.

    by nextstep on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 07:20:52 AM PST

  •  OK, WOE, back to basics. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    War on Error

    I've had a little sleep now myself, so let me try again to figure out what exactly you're questioning. I'm assuming we all agree that he actually has delivered babies, yes? If not, we can stop now. If so, which of the following are you saying or suspecting?

    1. Ron Paul was never licensed as a medical doctor. (If this, the evidence is that you're wrong. He has been licensed in at least two states.)

    2. Ron Paul was licensed but should not have been. (If this, you need to provide evidence of the licensing standards in place AT THAT TIME. Citing current standards doesn't help, and I believe that's all you've done.)

    2a. Ron Paul conned two states into issuing him licenses by lying about his training. (Any evidence? At all??)

    3. Ron Paul was a licensed doctor but was not authorized to deliver babies. (See #2.)

    4. Ron Paul held himself out as board certified in OB/GYN (or Family Medicine) without being board certified. (If this, you need to provide evidence that he -- not some fan -- has claimed he is board certified. NOTE: Calling himself a specialist is NOT the same thing as claiming he's board certified.)

    5. Ron Paul did not legitimately attain whatever diplomate or certification that he does claim. (Again, evidence is needed of the standards AT THAT TIME.)

    6. Something about a residency in Pittsburgh. (Sometimes, Google isn't your friend. So far, all I've seen is one unsourced statement about a Pgh residency. Everything else says he did his internship at Henry Ford; his wife also says he followed this with a 1 year residency in Internal Medicine there, and also explains delivering Rand in Pgh. Actually, given that this is the Pauls, I should say "a posting that bears Carol Paul's name.") Carol Paul statement

    Although I think there is nothing here, it's a good idea to get clear about the board certification process, because we'll face it again with Rand Paul. I believe he started up a whole new ophthalmology group to give himself creds in that area.

    •  Thanks so much for helping out here. (0+ / 0-)

      The only question that remains unanswered is

      Where he did his residency in order to receive a Diplomate Certification from ABO&G

      If you read the updated section above, you will see conflicting information.

      I am trying to NOT present conclusions as it is impossible to do so, especially BECAUSE there is conflicting information, all cited, in the update.

      Again, I am working on very little sleep, so if you see clarification in the UPDATED portion, let me know, K?

      It's difficult to be happy knowing so many suffer. We must unite.

      by War on Error on Tue Jan 10, 2012 at 02:36:20 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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