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Let me just come right out by saying that the vast majority of the estimated 1.67 billion Muslims around the world are clearly not terrorists.  The newly coined term “Islamophobia” describes an irrational fear of Islam.  But for any criticism of the Koran or of violent Jihad - even those criticisms that might have some legitimacy to them - even of radical Islam, are branded as Islamophobia and anyone who dares to raise questions about the nearly constant acts of Jihad going on increasingly around the world today is labeled a “Loon” - thus the title of their blog,

It seems that Loonwatch is pretty much exclusively concerned with exposing the perceived enemies of Islam, including a compulsive and obsessive tit for tat over anything that Robert Spencer, of had to say.  Unlike Pamela Geller or that nut in Florida who was preoccupied with burning the Koran, Spencer, whom I don't see eye to eye with either (I feel he might also be religiously motivated), presents himself in a rather rational, sober and scholarly fashion and I might add that neither he nor the other "Loons" have bombs strapped to them - only words.  Something we cannot say for so many, many defenders of Islam.

Anyone can take a short stroll through YouTube and find numerous videos translated into English of Islamic clerics from many parts of the world calling for the death of all Jews, the Islamic takeover of the world, applauding the actions of Islamic terrorists and defending the practice of beating women, forcing young girls to marry grown men and promoting the most radical forms of Sharia (Islamic) Law.  Surely has noticed this, but they have nothing to say on the subject - only criticism and attacks on anyone who dare suggest that within the Islamic world there might be room for improvement.


Quran (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves"

In time I became very disappointed by the deafening silence on the part of when it came to speaking out against the seemingly constant acts of Islamic terrorism, women in Islamic countries being stoned to death as a punishment for being raped, female genital mutilation, the rise of forced Islamic law in Libya, Tunisia and the rise of Islamism in Egypt, the many abuses that are so rampant in so much of the Islamic world today., in my opinion, has an obligation to do more than stand by silently as if to give their consent while only focusing on defending "the religion of peace".


After over a year of communication with in the making of "Not Welcome" I have come to the realization that this organization is fundamentally a radical Islamic front, covering up for terrorism, spreading distorted information about the reality of rapidly spreading Islamic fundamentalism - through lies of omission.  To tell a half truth is to tell a lie and the lie that tells everyday is to cover up the atrocities within Islam and only focus on attacking its critics.  

Quran (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]...

I trust that everyone who reads this can think for yourself, but my sense is that if you are affiliated with this site: you are perhaps unknowingly supporting a group with terrorist / Islamist sympathies.  Think of those Germans who did not stand up against or speak out against Hitler.  And note the distinction between being a German, which is of course perfectly fine, and through silence giving ones consent for the atrocities of the Nazi regime, which is quite another thing entirely.  We see here a similar scenario more and more with highly vocal Muslim representatives who have much to say about being percecuted wrongly but nothing much to say about Jihad and the violence associated with fundamentalist Islam.

Please note that there is a difference between the belief system called Islam and a person calling themselves a Muslim.  I have tolerance for Muslims as I would for any other human being.  But Islam as a belief system is another matter.

Obviously I feel strongly that Muslims have the same rights as everyone else to practice their religion in peace. But when an organization goes beyond that, I will speak up. My sense is that my movie "Not Welcome" makes it abundantly clear that I do support religious freedom for all and loath Islamophobia (the irrational fear of Islam). But I will call out anyone I am in contact with if they also have "Islamist" or terrorist sympathies.

In summary, it is clear that is in fact something of a terrorist spin control network, lacking basic empathy for human beings who are being victimized daily by the human rights abuses of fundamentalist Islam.

To give some perspective, what if any one of us created a news source whose only purpose was to attack and expose those people who had criticized American foreign policy, for instance, but we were totally unwilling to talk about what violence the American government had done and was doing that is wrong and in our name?  Kind of sounds like Fox "News" actually.  That is essentially what you have with and its relationship to radical Islam.  So why would they only defend Allah while never holding the many radical Muslims accountable?  Because the Koran commands them to do so - and when you follow the Koran literally like that - even when to do so defies basic empathy for other human beings... well, isn't that what fundamentalism is?

Below is a short documentary I produced entitled "Not Welcome" wherein I defend the rights of peaceful Muslims to build a 53,000 square foot Mega Mosque in the middle of the Bible Belt, while holding accountable the hateful words and actions of the radical American Evangelical Movement:


Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is an incomplete list, which may never be able to satisfy particular standards for completeness. You can help by expanding it with reliably sourced entries.  The following is a list of acts of terrorism committed by Muslims for the purpose of achieving varying political and/or religious ends. The list uses the same inclusion criteria as the article Muslim terrorism.


Quran (4:34) Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them.


 18 April 1983 United States embassy bombing 63 killed, 120 wounded.

 23 October 1983 Beirut barracks bombing 305 killed, 75 wounded.


 26 February 1993 – World Trade Center bombing, in New York City. 6 killed.

 13 March 1993 Bombay bombings. Mumbai, India. 250 dead, 700 injured.

 28 July 1994 – Buenos Aires, Argentina. Vehicle suicide bombing attack against AMIA building, the local Jewish community representation. 85 dead, more than 300 injured.

 24 December 1994 – Air France Flight 8969 hijacking in Algiers by 3 members of Armed Islamic Group of Algeria and another terrorist. 7 killed including 4 hijackers.

 25 June 1996 – Khobar Towers bombing, 20 killed, 372 wounded.

 17 November 1997 – Luxor attack, 6 armed Islamic terrorists attack tourists at Egypts famous Luxor Ruins. 68 foreign tourists killed.

 14 February 1998 – Bombing in Coimbatore, Tamil Nadu, India. 13 bombs explode within a 12 km radius. 46 killed and over 200 injured.

  7 August 1998 – 1998 United States embassy bombings in Tanzania and Kenya. 224 dead. 4000+ injured.

 4 September 1999 – A series of bombing attacks in several cities of Russia, nearly 300 killed.


 12 October 2000 – Attack on the USS Cole in the Yemeni port of Aden.

 11 September 2001 – 4 planes hijacked and crashed into World Trade Center and The Pentagon by 19 hijackers. Nearly 3000 dead.

Quran (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."  

 13 December 2001 – Suicide attack on Indian parliament in New Delhi by Pakistan-based Islamist terrorist organizations, Jaish-E-Mohammad and Lashkar-e-Toiba. Aimed at eliminating the top leadership of India and causing anarchy in the country. 7 dead, 12 injured.

 27 March 2002 – Suicide bomb attack on a Passover Seder in a Hotel in Netanya, Israel. 30 dead, 133 injured.

 30 March 2002 and 24 November 2002 - Attacks on the Hindu Raghunath temple, India. Total 25 dead.

 24 September 2002 – Machine Gun attack on Hindu temple in Ahmedabad, India. 31 dead, 86 injured.

 12 October 2002 – Bombing in Bali nightclub. 202 killed, 300 injured.

 23 October 2002 Moscow theater hostage crisis; Some 40 to 50 Islamist militant separatist seized a crowded Moscow theater taking 850 hostages. 170 killed, 700 injured.

 16 May 2003 – Casablanca Attacks – 4 simultaneous attacks in Casablanca killing 33 civilians (mostly Moroccans) carried by Salafia Jihadia.

 11 March 2004 – Madrid train bombings. 191 killed, 1460 injured (alleged link to Al-Qaeda).

 1 September 2004 - Beslan school hostage crisis, approximately 344 civilians including 186 children killed.

 2 November 2004 – The murder of Theo van Gogh (film director) by Amsterdam-born jihadist Mohammed Bouyeri.

 4 February 2005 – Muslim terrorists attacked the Christian community in Demsa, Nigeria, killing 36 people, destroying property and displacing an additional 3000 people.

 5 July 2005 - Attack at the Hindu Ram temple at Ayodhya, India; one of the most holy sites of Hinduism. 6 dead.

 7 July 2005 – Multiple bombings in London Underground. 53 killed by four suicide bombers. Nearly 700 injured.

 23 July 2005 – Bomb attacks at Sharm el-Sheikh, an Egyptian resort city, at least 64 people killed.

 29 October 2005 – 29 October 2005 Delhi bombings, India. Over 60 killed and over 180 injured in a series of three attacks in crowded markets and a bus, just 2 days before the Diwali festival.

 9 November 2005 Amman bombings. a series of coordinated suicide attacks on hotels in Amman, Jordan. Over 60 killed and 115 injured. Four attackers including a husband and wife team were involved.

 7 March 2006 Varanasi bombings, India. A series of attacks in the Sankath Mochan Hanuman temple and Cantonment Railway Station in the Hindu holy city of Varanasi. 28 killed and over 100 injured.

 2-3 June 2006 - A series of attacks erupted against targets in Southern Ontario, Canada, and the June 2, 2006, counter-terrorism raids in and around the Greater Toronto Area that resulted in the arrest of 18 people (dubbed the "Toronto 18") found to be members of an Islamic terrorist cell. 18 Al-Qaeda members were behind this attack plot. They were trying to storm the Canadian Broadcasting Centre, the Canadian Parliament building, the Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS) headquarters, and the parliamentary Peace Tower, to take hostages and to behead the Prime Minister and other leaders. No one was hurt

 11 July 2006 Mumbai train bombings, Mumbai, India; a series of seven bomb blasts that took place over a period of 11 minutes on the Suburban Railway in Mumbai. 209 killed and over 700 injured.

 30 June 2007 Glasgow International Airport attack, Glasgow, Scotland; A car loaded with propane canisters was driven into the glass doors of the Glasgow International Airport terminal and set ablaze. 1 killed and 5 injured.

 14 August 2007 – Qahtaniya bombings: Four suicide vehicle bombers massacred nearly 800 members of northern Iraq's Yazidi sect in the deadliest Iraq war's attack to date.

 26 July 2008 Ahmedabad bombings, India. Islamic terrorists detonate at least 21 explosive devices in the heart of this industrial capital, leaving at least 56 dead and 200 injured. A Muslim group calling itself the Indian Mujahideen claims responsibility. Indian authorities believe that extremists with ties to Pakistan and/or Bangladesh are likely responsible and are intent on inciting communal violence. Investigation by Indian police led to the eventual arrest of a number of terrorists suspected of carrying out the blasts, most of whom belong to a well-known terrorist group, The Students Islamic Movement of India.

 13 September 2008 – Bombing series in Delhi, India. Pakistani extremist groups plant bombs at several places including India Gate, out of which the ones at Karol Bagh, Connaught Place and Greater Kailash explode leaving around 30 people dead and 130 injured, followed by another attack two weeks later at the congested Mehrauli area, leaving 3 people dead.

 26 November 2008 – Muslim extremists kill at least 174 people and wound numerous others in a series of coordinated attacks on India's largest city and financial capital, Mumbai. The government of India blamed Pakistan based militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba and stated that the terrorists killed/caught were citizens of Pakistan, a claim which the Pakistani government first refused but then accepted when given proof. Ajmal Kasab, one of the terrorists, was caught alive.

 25 October 2009 - Baghdad, Iraq. During a terrorist attack, two bomber vehicles detonated in the Green Zone, killing at least 155 people and injuring 520.

 28 October 2009 – Peshawar, Pakistan. A car bomb is detonated in a woman exclusive shopping district, and over 110 killed and over 200 injured.

 3 December 2009 – Mogadishu, Somalia. A male suicide bomber disguised as a woman detonates in a hotel meeting hall. The hotel was hosting a graduation ceremony for local medical students when the blast went off, killing four government ministers as well as other civilians.

queers against radical islam


 1 January 2010 – Lakki Marwat, Pakistan. A suicide car bomber drove his explosive-laden vehicle into a volleyball pitch as people gathered to watch a match, killing more than 100 people.

 14 February 2010 - Pune, Maharashtra, India. bomb blast ripped through the city's popular German Bakery, close to the Osho Ashram and diagonally across from the Jewish Chabad House [21] killing 17 people and injuring 65.Maharashtra Anti-Terrorism Squad (ATS) claimed involvement of Pakistan based Lashkar-e-Taiba's (LeT).Police arrested Mirza Himayat Baig Inayat Baig,who allegedly heads Lashkar-e-Taiba's (LeT) module in the state.ATS has also arrested Bilal Baba Hussain Fareed Shaikh (27).In its chargesheet filed in a Pune court, the ATS has also named six other accused - all co-conspirator and absconding - Mohsin Choudhary, Yasin Bhatkal, Riyaz Bhatkal, Iqbal Bhatkal, Faiyaz Kagzi and Zabihuddin Ansari.

 1 May 2010 - New York, New York, USA. Faisal Shahzad, an Islamic Pakistani American who received an American citizenship in December 2009, attempted to detonate a car bomb in Times Square working with the Pakistani Taliban or Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan.

 28 May 2010 - Attacks on Ahmadi Mosques Lahore, Pakistan. Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan claimed attacks on two mosques simultaneously belonging to the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community, killing nearly 100 and injuring many others.

 1 January 2011 - Alexandria, Egypt. A car bomb exploded outside a Coptic Orthodox church after worshippers had gathered for a prayer celebration on New Year's Eve. 21 dead, 97 injured.

 24 January 2011 - Domodedovo International Airport, Moscow, Russia. A suicide bomb attack in the international arrivals hall of Domodedovo International Airport, Moscow killed at least 37 people and injured some 180. Attacks were later attributed to the Caucasus Emirate an Islamist terrorist organisation.

 25 January 2011 - Manilla, Philippines. A bomb under a bus seat detonated on a passenger bus commuting in Manilla. 5 dead, 14 injured. The attack has been attributed to the Islamist Terrorist Organization Jemaah Islamiyah.

 26 January 2011 - Khasavyurt, Russia. A car bomb explosion detonated by the Caucasus Emirate an Islamist terrorist organisation ripped through a cafe, with the blast killing and injuring both cafe workers and customers within the Russian city of Khasavyurt. 4 dead, 6 injured.

 18 April 2011 - Pattani, Thailand. Suspected Muslim insurgents have set off a car bomb that killed one soldier and wounded 25 people in restive southern Thailand.

 25 April 2011 - Maiduguri, Nigeria. An explosion at a hotel killed 3 people and wounded 14 others in northeastern Nigeria. A second explosion went off at a cattle market in the town of Maiduguri; it is suspected that the attacks have been perpetrated by the radical Islamic sect Bokko Haram (figuratively, "Western or non-Islamic education is a sin")

 28 April 2011 - Marrakesh, Morocco. A suicide bombing struck a cafe in Djemaa el Fna square, killing mostly foreigners and several Moroccan's, in the centre of Morocco's southern city of Marrakesh, which is located in southern Morocco. 16 dead and at least 20 injured. The attack was attributed to the Moroccan Islamic Combatant Group.

 8 June 2011 - Narathiwat, Thailand. Suspected Islamic militants killed two Buddhist monks and left a bomb at the scene that subsequently exploded and wounded five police officers. 2 dead, 5 injured.

 18 July 2011 - Hotan, China. A group of 18 young Uyghur men who opposed the local government's campaign against the full-face Islamic veil perpetrated a series of coordinated bomb and knife attacks and occupied a police station on Nuerbage Street, killing two security guards and taking eight hostages. The attackers yelled religious slogans, including ones associated with Jihadism.

SOURCE: Wikipedia




Religion of Peace

Quran (47:3-4) - "Those who reject Allah follow vanities, while those who believe follow the truth from their lord.  Thus does Allah set forth form men their lessons by similitude.  Therefore when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners"

What does the theology of Islam have to say about the Jews?


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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:


    by EricAllenBell on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 06:49:17 AM PST

  •  Maybe if you read the entire Quran (0+ / 0-)

    It seems to me that your list of atrocities contradicts your very careful parsing of the issues you discuss above it.  Say you made a documentary about the fundamentalist protests of abortion clinics, bent over backwards to say you're not bashing anyone, and then cherry picked the Bible the same way, and followed it with a similar list of fundamentalist Protestant abuses (like, say, the murder of George Tiller).  Same effect.

    All it takes is security in your own civil rights to make you complacent.

    by Dave in Northridge on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 07:35:49 AM PST

    •  Of course I've read the entire Quran (0+ / 0-)

      The difference between the Bible (a work of fiction that is filled with constant violence as well) and the Koran is that Islam for the most part has not yet come out of its dark ages.  Far too many of its indoctrinated followers take the most violent passages of the Koran literally.


      by EricAllenBell on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 07:41:38 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  is that reading in the original language or in (0+ / 0-)

        translation?  Just curious.
        re the Bible as a work of fiction, please don't tell the SBC or any other number of sects that the Bible is a work of fiction.
        It appears at least 20% of Americans view the Bible as the literal word of God and consider all of the events chronicled to have happened as chronicled and when chronicled

        As far as the Dark Ages, how many Americans accept ID instead of Evolution?  51% of Americans think humans were specially created by a supernatural God.  Then we have the other denialists such as HIV and vaccine and climate change and so on.  How far removed is America from the Dark Ages currently?

        •  What percentage of Americans stone people? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          As for your question about the translation of these Koranic verses.  I have studied this and interviewed many Islamic clerics.  They will always tell you its taken out of context and actually quite beautiful in Arabic.  And each time (which seems to be nearly daily now) there is an incidence of Islamic terrorism, the clerics will generally rationalize this by either saying that the terrorists were not real Muslims or that American foreign policy made these Muslims blow up say 15 churches in Nigeria on Christmas day.

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          by EricAllenBell on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 08:17:58 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  exactly like the Christian right disavows (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Dave in Northridge, rja, JDsg

            abortion clinic bombers and murderers of abortion docs, right?  As far as how many Americans stone people, how many Muslims electrocute people (since the electric chair remains in vogue in some states)?  If you wish to play this game of tit for tat, I will be happy to oblige but it seems you are on the short end of this stick, as arguing the US is more humane or civilized or whatever than the Muslim world is a tough slog for anyone.  How many Americans have Muslims killed with drones or with cluster bombs?  See how easy it is to ascribe blame or perhaps, biblically, we should be concerned with beams and motes

            •  It's not an either or proposition (0+ / 0-)

              The American Religious Right is a very serious threat to global security.

              But this does not negate the very real concerns I have outlined regarding radical Islam.

              In fact, I even including a 25 minute movie in my article to show just how serious a threat the American Religious Right is, if you care to watch.

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              by EricAllenBell on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 08:29:45 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  1857 (0+ / 0-)

            Mountain Meadows Massacre.

            Those 7-year-olds had it coming.

            Not much since then, though.

            •  Islam is still in its dark ages... (0+ / 0-)

              ... even though most of us know American Muslims who are not in the dark ages and are quite pleasant and nonviolent.

              The overall Islamic world, generally speaking, is very much stuck in an ancient time - one characterized by brutality, mistreatment of women, and an obsession with war, superstition and revenge.

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              by EricAllenBell on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 09:20:28 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Malaysia? (0+ / 0-)

                I met some Malaysians at work.  They seemed nice enough.  Wearing a head scarf during one of the few days of the year when Salt Lake City has nice weather is pretty silly.

                But they had enough money and education to travel overseas.  Maybe I met the George Will of Malaysians as opposed to the backwoods hillbillies.

                My Iranian boss back when I lived in California was not in the dark ages.  He decreed that we could have a 2 hour lunch so we could watch the 1994 World Cup.  You don't get more civilized than that.

        •  America is further along into the age of reason... (0+ / 0-)

          ... than nearly all Islamic nations.  Period.

          We are screwed up in many ways and have much room for improvement, but there really is no comparison.  We don't use religious law in this country to determine how to PUNISH a woman for being raped.  

          To suggest that the West is the same as the Islamic world, as if it were all just relative, is absurdly ignorant in light of the actual facts.

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          by EricAllenBell on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 10:26:42 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Essentialist nonsense... (4+ / 0-)
        ...Islam for the most part has not yet come out of its dark ages.

        Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time. (Terry Pratchett)

        by angry marmot on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 08:43:08 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  The facts support what I'm saying... (0+ / 0-)

          ... if you disagree, please support this with facts.

          Roughly 67% of Muslims cannot read or write.  This probably factors in heavily.  In Pakistan if one cannot afford to feed and educate their children, the Madrasas will do it for you and in the process radicalize them into being hardcore Jihadists.  Because of the poverty in that nation there are tens of millions who have been "educated" in this way.

          It's a shame but the reality is that Jihad, radical fundamentalist and violent Islam is on the rise and the liberal class in America seems to lack the courage to talk about it.

          Meanwhile, the right wingers for the most part speak of this out of bigotry rather than legitimate concern backed by real facts.

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          by EricAllenBell on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 08:48:52 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Cherry-picked "facts" often do... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            You are perpetuating a deeply problematic Orientalist view of Islam which is entwined with the right-wing bigotry you purport to decry. Your statement that "Islam for the most parthas not yet come out of its dark ages" is absolutely essentialist.

            Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time. (Terry Pratchett)

            by angry marmot on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 09:47:20 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Actually, it's a fact, Islam is in the dark ages.. (0+ / 0-)

              ... GENERALLY SPEAKING the Islamic world as a whole is still very barbaric.

              This is a fact, not my "right wing" opinion.  I'm not right wing.

              You can just take everything you don't like and call it right wing.

              Read the Koran all the way through.  Spend some time researching for yourself the facts I have presented.  I have no doubt you will find what I have found.  Whether you can accept it or have to rationalize it is up to you.

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              by EricAllenBell on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 09:55:16 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  "as a whole is still very barbaric"? (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                Give me a break... I've lived and worked throughout the Middle East and North Africa for 20+ years, and what you are claiming as "truth" is a gross and offensive stereotype. You really have no idea what you are taking about...

                Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time. (Terry Pratchett)

                by angry marmot on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 12:35:17 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Sharia Law (0+ / 0-)

                  Generally speaking, the greater Islamic world, especially the leadership, is still in the dark ages.

                  The Koran instructs men to beat their wives and in many Islamic countries (just like in the US) they do.  It's a religious command though in Islam.

                  Islamic Law commands death or lashings or stoning (depending on which cleric is interpreting it) for adultery - also known as being raped.

                  These are not naive or ignorant stereotypes.  These are verifiable facts.

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                  by EricAllenBell on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 12:52:27 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

          •  Classic hypocrisy. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            angry marmot

            In this earlier comment (#24) you write about Muslims and some non-Islamic issues (illiteracy, education in Pakistan), but then berate Utahrd (#38) not to "confuse Muslims with Islam."  You, apparently, prefer to do both.

            Muslims and tigers and bears, oh my!

            by JDsg on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 04:08:32 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Some Muslims are not all Muslims (0+ / 0-)

              Not all Christians are religious right.  Not all Jews support the mistreatment of Palestinians.  Not all Muslims follow Islam the way it is written in the Koran.

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              by EricAllenBell on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 08:51:58 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Muslims are, by definition... (0+ / 0-)

                ...those who are in a state of Islam.  People who don't follow Islam as it is written in the Qur'an are not in a state of Islam; hence, they are not Muslims.

                Muslims and tigers and bears, oh my!

                by JDsg on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 07:22:11 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Incorrect (0+ / 0-)

                  A person so deeply indoctrinated and brainwashed as to imagine themselves a Muslim, a Christian, a Jew, an American for that matter is still only a human being.

                  I don't know any Muslims or Christians or Jews or Americans or Democrats or Republicans, or any of this.  I have only met people.

                  Islam is violent as are all of the major organized religions.  When it is taken very literally, as it is by millions of the 1.67 billion so-called "Muslims" around the world, it becomes a major source of destruction.  It strips people of their humanity.

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                  by EricAllenBell on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 08:15:51 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

    •  What percentage of a holy book... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dave in Northridge

      can call for the murder of nonbelievers before it is deemed hateful?

      •  It's when its take literally that is a problem (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        It's bad enough the psychic violence that the Bible is causing to the collective consciousness of this world.  

        However, with the Koran, people are actually carrying out these violent passages every day.

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        by EricAllenBell on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 08:19:26 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  I would reply that this is nothing new, extremism (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dave in Northridge, skrekk

    and religion are a heady mix.

    We have our own home grown loons

    We have had the clan.

    The West has created Empires in the name of God and country.

    The Catholic church has prevented so much progress over the centuries and it is hard to know just where to start. The have tried to hide the most perfidious of crimes for the last fifty years or so.

    You haven't been listening to our wingnuts whose daily bread is made by their "war on women", they sound just like those in your piece.

    If you want to talk about religious extremism then all the doors must be open.

    You also have to look at why.

    I wouldn't limit myself to one religion.

    "Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing." Arundhati Roy

    by LaFeminista on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 07:44:51 AM PST

    •  PS as vilolent texts go the Bible has some (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      choice words. Leviticus is a good place to start.

      "Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing." Arundhati Roy

      by LaFeminista on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 07:49:15 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Let's not confuse the past with the present (0+ / 0-)

      Sure there is the occasional violence from the Klan, but this is dwarfed by the amount of Islamic violence in the world.

      The Catholic Church is a hate group that brainwashes its followers, but they are no longer involved in the Inquisition.  We cannot quite say the same thing for the larger Islamic world.


      by EricAllenBell on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 08:00:50 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm looking at the future, spend some time (0+ / 0-)

        in a mega church, the hate will wash over you

        "Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing." Arundhati Roy

        by LaFeminista on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 08:06:51 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Hate speech is not the same as stoning someone (0+ / 0-)

          Granted, the rhetoric coming from the American Evangelical community is awful.  But they aren't stoning anyone.  They aren't strapping bombs to themselves.  The occasional abortion clinic bomber is nothing compared  to the nearly daily Islamic acts of terrorism around the world.

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          by EricAllenBell on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 08:21:15 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  You should add, yet, since (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Dave in Northridge, skrekk, JDsg

            They just shoot at medical doctors. Guns replaced stones.

            "Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing." Arundhati Roy

            by LaFeminista on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 08:24:28 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Statistically that is hardly a comparison to make (0+ / 0-)

              For every one abortion clinic bomber (every few years at the most) there are acts of Islamic terrorism nearly everyday.

              There are human rights abuses on the part of Islamic theocracies every day.

              Muslim female children are forced to marry Muslim adult men nearly every day.

              Female genital mutilation is occurring nearly every day is several Islamic countries.

              Women are imprisoned and killed as punishment for being raped in Islamic countries all the time.

              Let's keep this in perspective, shall we?

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              by EricAllenBell on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 09:15:23 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Then you have to take historical incidences (0+ / 0-)

                into consideration, if one people is capable of religious nuttery it doesn't matter what the title of the religion happens to be, if you listen closely the bigotry is the same, one group can still get away with the persecution. We have secular laws to deal with that.

                You are in general dealing with populations that are where we were a hundred years ago or more.

                "Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing." Arundhati Roy

                by LaFeminista on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 09:41:01 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  America is not in its dark ages now... (0+ / 0-)

                  ... we have huge problems here, but we do not impose Islamic law, we do not stone women as a punishment for being raped, there is a difference.  It's not all relative.

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                  by EricAllenBell on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 09:58:04 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Right - we're absolutely opposed to "Islamic law", (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    angry marmot, JDsg

                    but perfectly comfortable when most of the Republican candidates want to impose Christian sharia law.

                    Frankly, you sound like just as much of an Islamophobe as the mosque-opponents you condemn.

                    •  I'm opposed to Christian Law too... (0+ / 0-)

                      ... Are you able to hold two thoughts in your head at the same time?

                      An "Islamophobe" is a person with an IRRATIONAL FEAR of Islam.  My concerns are well founded and very rational.

                      If you disagree with the Republican platform (as I do) would that make you a hatemonger?

                      Use some sense.

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                      by EricAllenBell on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 11:18:02 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

  •  I read Loonwatch and note that the articles can (3+ / 0-)

    be uneven in quality, but the same can be said for SPLC articles.  I also read JPost and find their editorials also tend to be uneven in terms of reasonableness.

    I am uncertain I would attempt a defense of Robert Spencer personally since there are really several sites which monitor his various pronouncements.  After all, he is connected to David Horowitz, which is hardly a Progressive association.
    Here is LGF's take on Spencer:
    or is LGF is a part of the universal conspiracy to create a caliphate?

    •  It's reasonable to disagree with Spencer (0+ / 0-)

      But where on Loonwatch is the outrage for the constant acts of Islamic terrorism and tyranny?

      Spencer uses words.  Muslim terrorists and Islamic clerics use bombs, whips, stones, etc.

      Hardly the same thing.


      by EricAllenBell on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 08:23:04 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Have you read their mission statement? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        angry marmot, JDsg

        Loonwatch is trying to raise awareness about Islamophobia.    That's all they do, and they don't serve your agenda.

        •  The mission statement itself is spin... (0+ / 0-)

          ... what they are doing is defending Allah and covering up for terrorists and others who use Islam to harm others.

          Anyone who criticizes any aspect of Islam is someone whom will brand an "Islamophobe".  But they have nothing to say in the least about the many, many, far too many people who are killed and tortured and mistreated everyday in the name of Islam.  Why?  Because the editors of Loonwatch are doing exactly what the Koran tells them to do.

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          by EricAllenBell on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 11:20:31 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  which goes to prove when you have a hammer (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            JDsg, skrekk

            everything looks like a nail; the same charges were made against al Jazeera during the GWB administration

            •  That doesn't even make sense (0+ / 0-)

              Why can't you just come to terms with the reality that religion is a scam and that fundamentalist Islam in particular is hurting people every single day - in reality?

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              by EricAllenBell on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 08:13:34 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  all fundamentalist religions are hurting people (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                every day; it is your claim that LoonWatch is in some ways extremist vs Robert Spencer as the voice of reason I do not buy

                •  Robert Spencer is not the voice of reason... (0+ / 0-)

                  ... I did not say that.  You are reading into what I've written things I am not saying.  I merely pointed out that, unlike the millions of Muslims who are using Islam to harm other people around the world, Robert Spencer does not have a bomb strapped to him and that his weapons are words.

                  I don't agree with all of his words.  I'm not a fan.  I have my views on religion - that it is destructive force in the world.

                  I presented in the video specifically the dangers that radical Evangelical Christianity presents very clearly.

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                  by EricAllenBell on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 08:55:25 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  can you cite please (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    skrekk, JDsg

                    something to prove that it is actually "millions" of Muslims using Islam to harm people around the world?

                    Let me point out that people who are fighting foreign invaders/occupiers (Iraqis, say, or Palestinians) should not automatically be counted as Islamic radicals. They may be Muslims who are fighting, but in the words of Immortal Technique,

                    "If another country invaded the hood tonight / It'd be warfare through Harlem, and Washington Heights / I wouldn't be fightin' for Bush or White America's dream / I'd be fightin' for my people's survival and self-esteem / I wouldn't fight for racist churches from the south... I'd be fightin' to keep the occupation out..."

                    So absent those who fight for territorial sovereignty, which people of all (or no) religious stripes will fight for, how do you quantify the presence of "millions of Muslims who are using Islam" ?

                    "You try to vote or participate in the government/ and the muh'fuckin' Democrats is actin' like Republicans" ~ Kweli -8.00, -6.56

                    by joey c on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 10:41:09 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Don't take my word for it (0+ / 0-)

                      Read the Koran.  Then do a little research as to how the Koran's most violent passages are being practiced right now around the world.  This will take a little more work than quoting a barbaric rapper who had also said, "A moment of silence?  Fuck dat, I wanna moment of violence".

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                      by EricAllenBell on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 11:10:12 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  implying that I don't back up my posts is foolish (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:

                        given the documentation I provided you with regarding biblical quotations in this same diary's comments.

                        Similarly, trying to discredit Immortal Technique's words on the basis of other things he's said is not valid; the truth of the quoted statement stands on its own.

                        I've read significant passages of the Bible and the Koran, and what they both have impressed on me is that I would not be inspired to join either faith merely from from reading their holy works.

                        Meanwhile, you didn't really address the substance of my post and cite a course for your assertion, but rather suggested that I do my own research. I read about current events all the time, and am familiar with lamentable events taking place in many locales, including ones run by Muslims. However, I thought someone so eager to explain how "Islam IS Islamic fundamentalism" would be able to back up his assertions with something other than a list of "terrorist events" cribbed from wikipedia.

                        "You try to vote or participate in the government/ and the muh'fuckin' Democrats is actin' like Republicans" ~ Kweli -8.00, -6.56

                        by joey c on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 12:19:46 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Read the Koran, Watch World Events... (0+ / 0-)

                          ... if you don't see a correlation there, I can't help you.

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                          by EricAllenBell on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 01:24:26 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  In other words... (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Devon Moore

                   can't make your point.  But we already knew that.

                            Muslims and tigers and bears, oh my!

                            by JDsg on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 07:25:37 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  We? Are you part of a flock of something? (0+ / 0-)

                            My point is self evident.  

                            Read the Koran.

                            Observe world events as they pertain to Islam.

                            Connect the dots.

                            This is a first grade homework assignment.  If I gave you all the answers you would refute them anyway.  I would challenge you to suspend for a moment your preconceived notions and look at this whole thing fresh, critically, with the courage that is required to question ones own tightly held beliefs about how things ought to be.

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                            by EricAllenBell on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 08:18:18 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                      •  I humbly suggest you need to read the Koran (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        skrekk, JDsg

                        in the original and not depend upon Ayatollahs' and mullahs' pronouncements as Gospel.  If you do wish to continue to validate your views with "what the mullahs say", I would suggest visiting Ayatollah Sistani's site with his explanations of the Koran:

                        •  I have read the Koran... (0+ / 0-)

                          ... and the combination of it's violent passages in conjunction with how I see them being carried out has formed my view on Islamic fundamentalism.

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                          by EricAllenBell on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 01:27:21 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  consider the violent sections of the Bible (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:

                            since both Muslims and Christians are offshoots of Abrahamic religion.  Cherrypicking the passages of any holy book is the root of problems and which we see the fruits of today as fundamentalists use these quotemining products to justify our most outrageous activities. Something else for your consideration:

                          •  Like I keep saying, the violent passages of the... (0+ / 0-)

                            ... Bible are rarely carried out anymore in contrast to the constant practice of enslaving women, punishing women for being raped, killing homosexuals, stoning people for adultery and on and on as the Koran commands.  

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                            by EricAllenBell on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 02:31:55 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  violent passages of the Bible are rarely carried (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:

                            out?  I don't know how you define violence but the actions of the Religious Right to limit women's access to healthcare including abortion has not been a form of violence?  You argue that Operation Rescue is not a violent organization or that they do not have disproportionate influence?

                            It appears your myopia limits your ability to comprehend that the same number of Muslims resort to violence as do Christians. 95% of both groups are sane and pretending otherwise does not advance us in finding solutions to the problems we face today

                          •  Abortion is violent - it's a human rights abuse (0+ / 0-)

                            That issue, upon which we will undoubtedly disagree, about a woman's right to kill her baby...

                            And let's be clear, I'm not a Republican or a Christian.  That said, do you actually believe there is an equal number of Christians stoning women to death as Muslims?  Are you that far gone?

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                            by EricAllenBell on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 03:55:05 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

  •  But that's different (0+ / 0-)

    If you rewrite this diary and replace "Muslim" with "Mormon"  and replace violent passages from the Koran with Joseph Smith's and Brigham Young's threats; then you'll be into triple digits in Mojo and on the Recommended list.

    Back when I lived in Orange County, CA; socially and financially conservative Iranians voted straight Republican as soon as they got their citizenship.  But then Bush repealed the 4th amendment.

  •  Sample of the spin control on (0+ / 0-)

    Quran (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]...


    by EricAllenBell on Sun Jan 15, 2012 at 10:15:04 AM PST

    •  Interesting how the verses you cite... (0+ / 0-)

      ...aren't mentioned at all in the article that you've linked to.  Some "spin control" there.

      Muslims and tigers and bears, oh my!

      by JDsg on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 04:20:35 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Loonwatch has an obligation to answer for... (0+ / 0-)

        ... that which they are so fiercely protecting.  If Islamic violence were a rare occurance this would not be the case.  But since it is constant and all that Loonwatch does is go after anyone who suggests that there might be room for improvement, then they are doing exactly as the Koran has instructed them to do but something which flies in the face of common sense, common decency and indicates a lack of empathy for the suffering of those harmed constantly by Islam.

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        by EricAllenBell on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 08:58:13 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  do they? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          I thought they had an obligation to do what they proposed to do with their organizational mission - expose Islamophobia.

          Do you go to the dentist and say, "you have an obligation to perform orthodontics! they're both in the mouth and have to do with teeth..."

          "You try to vote or participate in the government/ and the muh'fuckin' Democrats is actin' like Republicans" ~ Kweli -8.00, -6.56

          by joey c on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 10:31:15 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Islam IS Islamic fundamentalism... (0+ / 0-)

            ... they are the same thing.  Read the Koran yourself, don't take my word for it.

            Read the violent passages and then observe, study, research how those violent passages are being practiced everyday around the word by some (and not all or even most) Muslims.

            Loonwatch goes after ANY criticism of Islam.

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            by EricAllenBell on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 11:12:51 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  your comment does not address mine (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              i did not mention or refer to Islamic Fundamentalism.

              Furthermore, your own comment is not internally consistent. You write that "Islam IS Islamic fundamentalism" but then also say that I should "research how those violent passages are being practiced everyday around the word by some (and not all or even most) Muslims." emphasis mine.

              So clearly you understand that not all of any religion's adherents are violent fundamentalists, but you make a point of saying that all Islam is fundamentalists. Can you explain this contradiction?

              "You try to vote or participate in the government/ and the muh'fuckin' Democrats is actin' like Republicans" ~ Kweli -8.00, -6.56

              by joey c on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 12:06:26 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Muslims may or may not be violent, whereas.... (0+ / 0-)

                Islam, as described in the Koran and the Hadiths IS very, very violent indeed.

                And these are not just empty words, the violent commandments in the Koran are carried out by some but not all Muslims.

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                by EricAllenBell on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 01:29:09 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

  •  Eric, no doubt... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    angry marmot a nice guy and probably well-meaning, but he strikes me as the type of person who, despite his honorable defense of Muslims to build a mosque in Tennessee, has learned that those same Muslims aren't interested in changing Islam to reflect how he wishes Islam to be.  And those Muslims who won't play by his rules, he petulantly labels as "radicals."  Eric may have read through all of the Qur'an, but I sincerely doubt that he understands it, or Islam, very well.

    Muslims and tigers and bears, oh my!

    by JDsg on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 04:16:47 AM PST

    •  Judge a movement by its actions... (0+ / 0-)

      ... Your're right, I don't like how the greater Islamic world conducts itself.  I don't like the terrorism, the stonings, the lashings, the forced marriages, the female genital mutilation, the punishing of women for being raped, the killing of women for committing adultery, the second class status of women, the killing of homosexuals, the savagery, the barbarism, the superstition, that the founder married a six year old girl, that the founder ordered the torture of people, that the founder ordered the stoning of people, that the founder killed people, that the founder owned slaves...

      For a so-called "liberal blog" the political correctness demonstrated here in the comments above in defending the savagery and human rights abuses of Islam is shameful and is indicative of the weak mindedness of the liberal class.  


      by EricAllenBell on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 09:03:06 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Who is demanding political correctness? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        and who is defending "savagery" et cetera? No one, but nice try with the strawman... The criticisms of your thoughts in your diary and comments has everything to do with your profound ignorance of Islam, Islamic law and Islamic societies in their myriad forms through time and across regions. You too easily succumb to ignorant misrepresentations in attempts to fortify your condemnations of organized religion writ large, and seem insensate to the inconsistencies of your thought which reveal, above all, how little distance separates you from the bigots whom you purport to decry. In short, you're full of shit...

        Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time. (Terry Pratchett)

        by angry marmot on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 10:09:29 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Actually I am very well informed about religion... (0+ / 0-)

          ... and the tremendous amount of physical and psychic violence it causes in the world and how it creates generation after generation of people unable to exercise critical thinking.

          Religion is bullshit.

          Fundamentalist religion tends to become violent bullshit.

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          by EricAllenBell on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 11:15:07 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  i beg your pardon sir (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        but it boggles my mind that a person who put in the effort to make a documentary taking Americans to task for objecting to the presence of a house of worship dedicated to a deity different from their own could then turn around and disparage the same religion whose oppression he had chronicled.

        I have little regard for religion in general and an especial dislike of fundamentalists, regardless of religion - Dominionists, Jihadists, Haredi and the BJP are all threats to me.

        But I think your accusation against Loonwatch goes too far.

        1. As Skrekk points out, Loonwatch's mission is to publicize islamophobia, not to publicize jihadist evil. Lots of places that track terrorism exist already. If you started a web site for tracking the actions of religious fundamentalists, what would you think when someone took you to task for not talking about Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot? I know what I would think: "go fuck yourself, asshole. if that's so important to you, start your own web site." except in this case, Geller and company have already started their own (execrable) web sites, so your concern should be obviated.

        2. Your quotations from the Koran prove nothing. One could quote all kinds of biblical sections (Leviticus 24:16, Leviticus 25:44-46,  Deuteronomy 2:33-37, Numbers 31:7-18, and tons more in Joshua, Judges, Kings, Chronicles, Ezekiel, etc. ) to prove that Christianity or Judaism (for the Old Testament ones) were violent and evil. A religious skeptic has even addressed the question of which religion is worse in terms of violence, inconclusively, here. The bottom line is that it's not what  the book says but what people do, and I am not convinced (irrespective of your impressive list; if we took a list of the evils of Christianity at the same stage in its development, ~1400 AD, we'd be looking at all the people killed in the Inquisition) that when one looks at history any major religion has been much less terrible than any other.  

        "You try to vote or participate in the government/ and the muh'fuckin' Democrats is actin' like Republicans" ~ Kweli -8.00, -6.56

        by joey c on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 10:29:32 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  This is like arguing history with Baptists (0+ / 0-)

          The Muslim community in Murfreesboro, TN has the same Constitutional right to build a place of worship as anyone else.  Those who opposed the new mosque opposed it on religious grounds primarily and not on any valid legal grounds.  The film I made was largely about liberty.

          As for your comparisons between the violent passages in the Koran and the violent passages in Leviticus... isn't this self evident?  Do you see Christians out on the street stoning their children for talking back, as they are commanded to do in the Bible?  For the most part, no.

          Do you see Muslims, the world over, stoning people for a variety of reasons because it says to do so in the Koran and Hadiths?  I think the answer to that question is self evident.

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          by EricAllenBell on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 11:19:51 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  so you're in favor of liberty (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            in theory, but against people using that liberty to practice this one religion that's you've decided is indefensible? '

            As I pointed out, it may be a function of the religion's age how violent its adherents are - Christians in general are less violent towards those they regard as infidels now, but at the same point in the development of their religion (1400 years after the founder/prophet's life) things were pretty ugly in Christendom.

            Anyway, I see people the world over being violent. Among them are "Muslims" doing hateful things supposedly in the name of their lord. I don't tar the entire religion's followers with the brush you're using.

            "You try to vote or participate in the government/ and the muh'fuckin' Democrats is actin' like Republicans" ~ Kweli -8.00, -6.56

            by joey c on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 11:59:41 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Your right to swing your fists ends at my nose (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Bette Kibble

              Liberty means you own you.  When you strap a bomb to you to blow me up, we have a problem.

              When you take away the rights of women, or attack other people in the name of religion, we have a problem.

              Why is this so hard to understand?

              And I have been abundantly clear, over and over, that most of the Muslims in the world are not violent.  Read my opening sentence.  That said, Islam IS violent.

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              by EricAllenBell on Mon Jan 16, 2012 at 01:32:11 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

  •  A Story Loonwatch will ignore... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Bette Kibble

    'I was doing my duty as a Muslim,' says father who handed out leaflets saying gay people should be hanged
    Kabir Ahmed, 28, tells court he couldn't 'just stand by and watch somebody commit a sin'

    Five men face first prosecution for inciting hatred on the grounds of sexual orientation since law came into force
    Leaflet called Death Penalty? said: 'The death sentence is the only way this immoral crime can be erased from corrupting society'

    Read more:


    by EricAllenBell on Tue Jan 17, 2012 at 08:17:31 AM PST

  •  Poorly written article (0+ / 0-)

    This was an extremely poorly written diary. Is there a way to give a minus tip jar?

  •  Using Right-Wing Propaganda (0+ / 0-)
  •  Ironically, (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JDsg, angry marmot

    your view of Islam as a monolithic, inherently violent ideology set in stone, is shared by the poor stupid bastards who carry out atrocities in its name.

    Historically, Muslims have suffered huge violence at the hands of Christians, Hindus and Seculars alike.  It's simply historically inaccurate to describe Islam as more violent than other religions.

    Currently we are undergoing a wave of violent Islamic extremism that has its roots in political movements.  The Islamic world is at the heart of geopolitical battles between the West and Asian powers, and has been cut up, shared out, chewed up and spat out by colonial powers.

    Young Muslims are easily radicalized, yes - but that has little or nothing to do with what the Q'uran says.  Most of them will never have read it.  They are radicalized because of the gap between their lived world of power struggles, poverty and injustice and the ideal world of universal emancipation and brotherhood that Islam promises them.

    Islam offers hope and a good way to live for millions of people who otherwise have nothing.  That is why they identify so strongly with it, why it is culturally so deeply embedded and that is why political violence is generally expressed through its framework -- because EVERYTHING, from greeting your neighbor to going to work is also expressed through its framework.

    And no, Loonwatch don't have an obligation to apologise for every bad act that a Muslim carries out, just like they can't take credit for every good act a Muslim carries out.  Their purpose is to uncover and mock islamophobia, and they mostly do a good job.

    "He's really fucking us over like that? Really? That's really a JP Morgan guy, really?"

    by ignatz uk on Wed Jan 18, 2012 at 06:48:54 AM PST

    •  Wrong (0+ / 0-)

      Actually many, many of the young men who are radicalized were indoctrinated in Islamic madrasas.

      I don't know which religion has been the most violent historically but my guess would be Christianity.  That said, if we take a snapshot of NOW it is very clear which religion is by far the most violent in terms of the number of people who attribute their acts of violence to Islam.


      by EricAllenBell on Wed Jan 18, 2012 at 07:17:12 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I agree with some points but not others (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    EricAllenBell, Bette Kibble


    I think you raised some valid criticisms of Loonwatch here, and it was brave of you to make them here where you probably knew there would be a hostile response.

    However, I think some of your accusations aren't backed up with sufficient evidence. For example, your accusations of their support for terrorism and radical Islam should not be made so lightly based on impressions. Those are pretty serious allegations, and serious allegations require stronger support than their lies of omission and so forth. (And just because Loonwatch engages in smear, insult, and unsubstantiated allegation, doesn't mean others should resort to similar tactics when critiquing them).

    You wrote:
    " [lacks] basic empathy for human beings who are being victimized daily by the human rights abuses of fundamentalist Islam."

    They don't give much attention to the non-Muslim minorities throughout the Islamic world who are persecuted and oppressed. It is a problem to the extent that they try to deny or minimize this. However, besides that, I wouldn't have a problem with them just focusing on anti-Muslim bigotry (i.e., the instances of harassment, assault, vandalism, larger issues such as civilian casualties, etc.).

    Loonwatch certainly didn't show empathy toward some people they've attacked, like Rifqa Bary, Molly Norris, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, and others. You know something's amiss when Loonwatch is attacking victims or potential victims of Islamic extremism such as these, while defending Islam.

    I also agree with you in making a distinction between Spencer and some of the others. While I disagree with Spencer on numerous issues, I think he is indeed relatively reasonable, given the heated polemic exchanges, and frankly looks like a saint next to the Loonwatch writer Danios who attacks him with such vitriol, unsubstantiated allegations, and fabrications.

    I agree with what you say about Loonwatch not accepting criticism of Islam per se. I'm familiar enough with the site to know that they don't accept any Islam critics. If there is an acceptable way to criticize Islam in their view, to my knowledge they have not yet shared that with us (and I've followed their site a fair bit). This becomes an issue on the site when they are presenting apologetic articles about various aspects of Islam; those who take a critical perspective in response are automatically accused of bigotry, ignorance, etc.

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    EAB, it is obvious that your hatred of Muslims is in conflict with the progressive facade you present as inherent to your character. Some have stated you are a right wing smear tactician, others have  implied you are ignorant of Islam other than a slanted, nuanced assessment. I for one will take it a step further and say that while your limited understanding of Muslims leads to slanted, rightwingesque, smearing of a vastly eclectic people, it fits into the neoliberal, Western Exceptionalist vantage that "we" need to change "the others" social, economic, and moral fabric to mirror "our own" so that "they" can escape the inherent backwardness of their "culture." Textbook, orientalist, jingoism at its finest. Now if only you could direct your angst towards something more worthwhile.

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