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"If music be the food of love ... play on"

Music, whatever your favourite flavour, satisfies the soul. Music reaches the parts other beers cannot reach, allows expression and facilitates understanding; and sometimes it's just plain fun!

We are well served here by Music Diaries, maybe as testament to the fact that the above statements are true. This is a weekly Diary Series that simply takes one song, and explores some of the themes around it.

Please feel free to contribute suggestions for future weeks

Publication will be 9.00pm Central, each Wednesday, unless it isn't

We kill each other.

As a species we are pretty much unique in that respect. Other members of the animal kingdom occasionally kill each other, but rarely deliberately unless for food. We don't generally eat each other so I guess that's a blessing.

Ritual displays of prowess, and the defending of territory, are a normal part of animalian instinct. In a tough world, where food is scarce and opportunities to reproduce limited, then a certain amount of aggression is understandable. Indeed there was a time when humans too were hunter gatherers, living a hand to mouth existence and "dragging the bear back to the cave".

That was all way back. No really, a long time ago, before television. We changed from our early ancestors who went on to grow crops, make tools, discover metal and the wheel until one day we had Tablet PCs and Cellphones.

Along the way we also developed a taste for killing and I'm not sure I call that progress.

As individuals we sometimes kill another, at least with the intent to harm. Those are criminal actions not supported by either the State or society at large, and not covered by this Diary. I am concerned here with State sponsored killing of either its own citizens, or the citizens of another State.

We kill each other usually in very ritualistic ways. Capital punishment has all but been abolished in the developed world. Places like Canada, Europe, Australia no longer conduct this grisly ceremony (for ceremony it is), while some less developed nations ... China, Iran, the United States have yet to achieve that level of humanity. It's patchy, parts of the US, for example, are more self-aware than others.

All of that pales in comparison to casualties of war, and war is endemic. Since the start of the Vietnam War I don't think that there has ever been a time when the US Military has not been engaged on active service somewhere in the world. When I heard that particular statistic I was actually taken aback by it. It is in stark contrast to the other relevant fact .... Despite all the wars, with the exception of Pearl Harbor, the US has never actually been threatened on its own soil. It's fair to point out that maybe a real threat did exist, if any of the Politburo hawks were quite as hawkish as Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld. Personally I don't think the threat was ever much more than brinksmanship, given that most in the Politburo were more concerned with their own in-fighting to give much thought to the US. I can say that because I wasn't old enough to understand the Cuban Missile Crisis. I do know that my parents were scared.

Ideological wars are easy enough to understand. We might not agree with them, we may indeed protest against them, but we can understand how and why they happen. It's the others I have most trouble with. The War for Profit, of which the Iraq War is a prime example.

There can be no war without soldiers, and there would be no war were the profit motive removed. Iraq would not have happened if that country had no oil. In the end, that is the final damnation of that conflict. A killing spree that cost 4500 American lives, and maybe hundreds of thousands of Iraqi lives, many of them non-combatants, and all so that oil companies could steal the mineral wealth of yet another country.

Oh, and because Tony Blair reads Daily Kos (of course he does), I have this to say to you:

"It is to your eternal shame that an intelligent and articulate Labour leader, with the country behind him, was so blinded by the trappings of Washington that you set aside your better judgement and uncritically chose to follow a madman to war. You will spend the rest of your life atoning for the lives lost, the families shattered and, let us not deny it, the cost and the price of your folly".

Without a ridiculously profitable Military Industrial Complex wars would be infrequent rather than perpetual. We will not stop the US going to war until we remove the profiteers, and their campaign dollars, from the political process.

And that brings me to the Song of the Week.

This one is a message not to the governments of the world, although they may choose to hear it. Rather it is a song for the brave, the soldiers, the ones who risk the most and all too often pay the ultimate price:

Universal Soldier, words and music by Donovan

He's five foot-two, and he's six feet-four,
He fights with missiles and with spears.
He's all of thirty-one, and he's only seventeen,
Been a soldier for a thousand years.

He'a a Catholic, a Hindu, an Atheist, a Jain,
A Buddhist and a Baptist and a Jew.
And he knows he shouldn't kill,
And he knows he always will,
Kill you for me my friend and me for you.

And he's fighting for Canada,
He's fighting for France,
He's fighting for the USA,
And he's fighting for the Russians,
And he's fighting for Japan,
And he thinks we'll put an end to war this way.

And he's fighting for Democracy,
He's fighting for the Reds,
He says it's for the peace of all.
He's the one who must decide,
Who's to live and who's to die,
And he never sees the writing on the wall.

But without him,
How would Hitler have condemned him at Dachau?
Without him Caesar would have stood alone,
He's the one who gives his body
As a weapon of the war,
And without him all this killing can't go on.

He's the Universal Soldier and he really is to blame,
His orders come from far away no more,
They come from here and there and you and me,
And brothers can't you see,
This is not the way we put the end to war.

8:42 PM PT: Thanks to und83 in the comments for clarifying that Buffy Sainte-Marie wrote this classic song. The Donovan cover was the version I remember, and Wikipedia is broken today :)

Originally posted to Every Part of You Belongs to You on Wed Jan 18, 2012 at 07:00 PM PST.

Also republished by DKOMA, Protest Music, and Community Spotlight.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Military personnel (37+ / 0-)

    their families and friends are the ones who suffer the most, yet they have little say in matters of military policy.

    I wish we needed fewer, and suffered fewer casualties, but wishing does little to make it so.

    They have and deserve the support of us all, until the day comes that we no longer send them into harm's way.

    I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
    but I fear we will remain Democrats.

    by twigg on Wed Jan 18, 2012 at 03:14:53 PM PST

  •  It's always the right time for a diary like this, (14+ / 0-)

    Twigg, ang no time is better than while many of us are rattling sabers at Iran.

    Here's another good one

    "Anthem"

     The birds they sang
    at the break of day
    Start again
    I heard them say
    Don't dwell on what
    has passed away
    or what is yet to be.
    Ah the wars they will
    be fought again
    The holy dove
    She will be caught again
    bought and sold
    and bought again
    the dove is never free.

    Ring the bells that still can ring
    Forget your perfect offering
    There is a crack in everything
    That's how the light gets in.

    We asked for signs
    the signs were sent:
    the birth betrayed
    the marriage spent
    Yeah the widowhood
    of every government --
    signs for all to see.

    I can't run no more
    with that lawless crowd
    while the killers in high places
    say their prayers out loud.
    But they've summoned, they've summoned up
    a thundercloud
    and they're going to hear from me.

    Ring the bells that still can ring ...

    You can add up the parts
    but you won't have the sum
    You can strike up the march,
    there is no drum
    Every heart, every heart
    to love will come
    but like a refugee.

    Ring the bells that still can ring
    Forget your perfect offering
    There is a crack, a crack in everything
    That's how the light gets in.

    Ring the bells that still can ring
    Forget your perfect offering
    There is a crack, a crack in everything
    That's how the light gets in.
    That's how the light gets in.
    That's how the light gets in.

    Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from a religious conviction. -- Blaise Pascal

    by RJDixon74135 on Wed Jan 18, 2012 at 07:42:56 PM PST

  •  Now this is a song I actually know (10+ / 0-)

    And love. Thanks for featuring it on your Song of the Week.

    You cannot enlighten the unconscious.

    by cassandracarolina on Wed Jan 18, 2012 at 08:27:14 PM PST

  •  Donovan didn't write it (23+ / 0-)

    "The Universal Soldier" was not written by Donovan. He wasn't even the first to perform it!

    The song came from the mind and pen of Buffy Sainte-Marie.  Here's a video of her explaining the song's genesis, followed by her performing it:

  •  When I first entered Military Service (11+ / 0-)

    it was under the Department of War.  When they changed it to Department of Defense I thought, “We’re making progress”.  I was wrong.

    •  "Defense". Total bullshit. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mkor7, twigg, nellgwen

      One of the things we should have learned from the Cold War is that not even the Soviets could win in Afghanistan. We've got the biggest military arsenal in the world and we can't even sit back a moment and think that it's possible that not all wars are winnable. Yet we wage it, every day, and send CHILDREN to their death.

      Shame.

      Santorum: Man on Dog; Romney: Dog on Car. equalitymaine.org

      by commonmass on Thu Jan 19, 2012 at 09:16:59 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Just one mere (7+ / 0-)

    the war to end all wars (Sic)

  •  From Wilfred Owen: (8+ / 0-)

    Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
    Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
    Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs
    And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
    Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
    But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
    Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
    Of tired, outstripped Five-Nines that dropped behind.

    Gas! Gas! Quick, boys!–An ecstasy of fumbling,
    Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time;
    But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
    And flound'ring like a man in fire or lime...
    Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light,
    As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.

    In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
    He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

    If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
    Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
    And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
    His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;
    If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
    Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
    Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
    Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,–
    My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
    To children ardent for some desperate glory,
    The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
    Pro patria mori.

    An Fhirinn an aghaidh an t'Saoghail.

    by OllieGarkey on Thu Jan 19, 2012 at 08:07:29 AM PST

  •  We, here in the US, have become (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sfbob, twigg, mkor7, nellgwen, Mnemosyne

    Imperial Germans. We have become Hapsburgs and Hohenzollerns. We have been fighting Communism where it doesn't exist, we have been sticking our finger in Latin American countries and causing tens of thousands of deaths over trade and the almighty Dollar.

    We have a prison camp in Cuba that would make Himmler salivate.

    We have become all the things we say we hate. While we strap people to gurneys and shove a needle up their arm.

    I was born during the Viet Nam War. My country has been at war--both at home and abroad--my whole life. It makes me want to vomit. And there is nothing, apparently, I can do about it.

    Santorum: Man on Dog; Romney: Dog on Car. equalitymaine.org

    by commonmass on Thu Jan 19, 2012 at 09:02:41 AM PST

    •  There is nothing any individual (4+ / 0-)

      can do about it on their own.

      One man with a shovel can dig a ditch ... Many men, each so armed, can move a mountain.

      We just need all our shovels working together.

      Unfortunately, we are Democrats. While about two thirds of us are digging away at that mountain, the rest are busy filling in the hole!

      I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
      but I fear we will remain Democrats.

      by twigg on Thu Jan 19, 2012 at 09:14:58 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Welcome to the United States, Twigg. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        twigg

        That's the Democratic Party!

        Santorum: Man on Dog; Romney: Dog on Car. equalitymaine.org

        by commonmass on Thu Jan 19, 2012 at 09:19:11 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  One thing I could do is emigrate. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        twigg, dsb

        Don't think I haven't thought about it.

        Santorum: Man on Dog; Romney: Dog on Car. equalitymaine.org

        by commonmass on Thu Jan 19, 2012 at 09:24:16 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  There is something every individual (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        AdamSelene, hairylarry

        can do about it on their own! Firstly, refuse to cooperate with the Military Industrial Complex that controls
        this country, by not joining the imperial armed forces. Secondly, refuse to vote for dem/repugs and work for independent and/or third party candidates.
        As Ms. Sainte-Marie states in the final stanza, we are all responsible, including the soldier, for what we do and for what is done in our name!

        With God On Our Side-Dylan

        •  You cannot come here (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          commonmass, hairylarry

          and advocate voting or working for third party candidates.

          It will get you banned.

          I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
          but I fear we will remain Democrats.

          by twigg on Thu Jan 19, 2012 at 01:04:55 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Really ? How charming ! (0+ / 0-)

            Now, granted ... there were some persistent and obnoxious Paul-ists who "never will be missed."  And personally, I thought the  Nader-ite Front was annoying -- AND distracting.

            But you know ... seeing "It will get you banned" right out in the open so baldly and without apology ...

            Gee ... kinda makes one think ...

            •  How polite do you think (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              hairylarry

              Markos will be when he wields his BanHammer?

              The message was simply a statement of fact.

              Had it not been my own Diary I would have HR'd the comment too.

              I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
              but I fear we will remain Democrats.

              by twigg on Thu Jan 19, 2012 at 08:23:02 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  What does (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                twigg

                "I would have HR'd the comment too"mean? I am not familiar with the abbreviation.

                With God On Our Side-Dylan

                •  If you have Trusted User status (0+ / 0-)

                  you have two radio buttons under each comment you read.

                  One is to Recommend that comment, the other to Hide Rate (HR) it.

                  Each TU has up to 5 Hide Rates available each day. If a comment gets enough HRs, it is hidden from general view (TUs can still see it).

                  There are fairly limited circumstances under which HRs can be given, and advocating for third parties is one of them.

                  Another rule is that a User is not allowed to HR comments in their own Diaries.

                  The comment concerned was HR'able on its merits, and although I use very few of the ones I have available, I would have done so in this case. What prevented me was that this is my Diary.

                  Hope that helps.

                  I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
                  but I fear we will remain Democrats.

                  by twigg on Thu Jan 19, 2012 at 09:14:55 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  So your saying (0+ / 0-)

                    that you would have censored me because I advocated for something other than the democratic party and all the while I was under the impression that the Daily Kos encouraged open discussion. Where is it stated that one can not advocate for a third party or an independent?

                    IF God's On Our Side, He'll Stop The Next War-Dylan

                    •  No, that is not what I am saying. (0+ / 0-)

                      Those are your words.

                      I am saying that I would have been one person who decided to hide your comment because it is in clear breach of the stated policy of this site.

                      Had others chosen to HR too, then your comment would have been hidden from casual view, but still viewable by many thousands of Trusted Users.

                      Censorship is a concept that has no relevance on a privately owned website. You were not, and have not been censored.

                      Hiding a comment does not delete or modify it, all it does is reduce the number of people who can see it.

                      If you break the rules, that is what happens.

                      I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
                      but I fear we will remain Democrats.

                      by twigg on Thu Jan 19, 2012 at 09:55:55 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  This ... (0+ / 0-)
                      Where is it stated that one can not advocate for a third party or an independent?

                      It is stated in countless threads, posts and comments from Markos and others.

                      It may be stated in the FAQ, I don't know if that has been updated.

                      It is also stated by me, right here in this thread.

                      If you think you are being unfairly treated please use the "contact" form and let Admin. know.

                      I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
                      but I fear we will remain Democrats.

                      by twigg on Thu Jan 19, 2012 at 09:58:59 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

      •  Do you think the Democrats have a Peace (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        hairylarry

        Agenda ... as such?

        I mean, I get it that after 5 years of War in Iraqistan a slim majority of Americans came to resent the COST of Bush's Adventure, so Candidate Obama made withdrawal a promise and a priority on which he delivered (sort of) some 4 years later.

        But rejecting ... or even questioning ...  War as a means of advancing national interest ...  which Democrat above the rank of Unpaid Intern  is taking that position in public where someone might hear him/her?

        Sure "elect more and better Democrats".  Consider the alternative.   But the mountain they're digging away at ISN'T the Military Industrial Complex or any of its Works.

    •  Oh I wish it was new, commonmass, (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      hairylarry

      but we've been fucking around in other nation's business since our earliest days.  

      My best friend has a photography show that's traveling to various locations, photographs of the Madres of the Plaza de Mayo, women who lost children to the RW dictators we helped put in place in Argentina.  Every South and Central American nation that was leaning left during the cold war years seems to have a similar story, and the Middle East is our karmic debt come back to haunt us.

      If we knew our history we might be able to learn from it and not repeat it.  I believe President Obama knows that history, and has some ideas about a saner future, but first he has the hideous task of getting us back out of a nation we've already broken our promises to once.  There's more here than just the Bush war, it's the fact that we armed, financed, and trained the Taliban and Al Queda, and then abandoned the Afghan people to their tender mercies once the Russians gave up.   I suspect the President has more in mind than routing Al Queda, because he's a man who understands what we've done to too many peoples.

      I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

      by I love OCD on Thu Jan 19, 2012 at 08:42:43 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  The Great Mandala (8+ / 0-)

    If my soldiers were to begin to think, not one would remain in the ranks. -Frederick the Great

    by Valatius on Thu Jan 19, 2012 at 09:11:05 AM PST

  •  Same as it ever was (5+ / 0-)

    "Nonviolent in the face of police brutality." Scott Olsen's email signature

    by BOHICA on Thu Jan 19, 2012 at 10:23:32 AM PST

  •  Blues For Peace (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    twigg, brae70, marina

    Please join the Protest Music Group where we sing truth to power.

    by hairylarry on Thu Jan 19, 2012 at 10:27:39 AM PST

  •  Ants kill each other, some species at least. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    hairylarry

    Not a bug person but I do believe neighboring ant hives or whatever you call them attack one another sometimes.

    "Buying Horizon Milk to support organic farming is like purchasing an English muffin in an effort to prop up the British economy." -Windowdog

    by Windowdog on Thu Jan 19, 2012 at 10:36:33 AM PST

    •  In "The Sword and the Stone", T.H. White made this (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      twigg, hairylarry

      very point ... that only a very FEW species of Ants "make war" and take slaves ... and of all species of "All Creatures Great and Small" only MAN and perhaps a dozen others do so.

      (Well, now we know it's "Man" and "Chimpanzees," though the Chimps aren't very efficient killers, and don't take slaves at all.)

      Having corrected young Arthur's generalization "Ant's do" (make war)  White has his "Merlin" pose the question to Arthur  "who he most preferred", the Ants who made war on other Nests, or the Geese, who did NOT.

  •  Really war is just an extension of resource (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    twigg, marina, burnt out, nellgwen, hairylarry

    competition. The rich countries of the world do more violence upon the poor with the economic policies that all the bombs dropped in the 20th century. The penniless rebel soldier will always exist in a world without a just allocation of resources. Wishing he would go away without working to lift him and his families from their situation does nothing to end the cycle.

    But of course there really aren't enough resources for 10-15 billion people so in the end I suppose even a righteous world would be doomed.

    "Buying Horizon Milk to support organic farming is like purchasing an English muffin in an effort to prop up the British economy." -Windowdog

    by Windowdog on Thu Jan 19, 2012 at 10:44:56 AM PST

    •  You may be right (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      twigg, hairylarry

      but resistance has to begin somewhere, doesn't it?

      I read somewhere once that the ideal population for the planet would be one in which a person could be as alone or as together with others as one wishes.

      I think we exceeded that ideal a long time ago.

    •  Yes (0+ / 0-)

      Since we are short on resources wouldn't it be best to waste some resources by having a war. Wars don't preserve resources. They burn through them and contaminate them. War may be caused by competiton for resources but it is not the solution for resource shortages.

      Thanks,

      Hairy Larry

      Please join the Protest Music Group where we sing truth to power.

      by hairylarry on Fri Jan 20, 2012 at 05:46:38 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  revisionist history (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mkor7, twigg, jakedog42, hairylarry

    has been unkind to Donovan and that's a dirty shame, coz he was/is an incredible artist and performer whose recorded canon stands up very well to critical scrutiny, beginning with his circa '64 protest-folky phase.

    But the real stunners followed shortly thereafter:
    Do yourself a favor and hunt down the reissues of Hurdy Gurdy Man, Sunshine Superman and Mellow Yellow  for starters. The breadth and depth of these albums will shock you if you've never heard 'em ( or haven't listened for 35 yrs)

  •  I've always struggled with this song (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    twigg, Zinman, hairylarry

    I think it provokes a thought that all potential soldiers ought to think lOng and hard about.  In a post Nuremberg world, we are all held to personal accountability for how we allow ourselves to be used.

    That said,  as a jew who lost a good portion of my family tree to nazis, I cannot justify absolute pacifism.  I think some battles are worth fighting, and I reject the idea that soldiers are ultimately the ones to blame for the venality of their leaders.  A young person who answers the call of their country when he or she believes their country to be in need is to be respected for their willingness to do so.  My harshest judgment is reserved for those leaders who turn out to be unworthy of that trust.

    On a musical note,  Donovan's a giant and Buffy Saint Marie a completely underrated artist.  Check out her song "Broke Down Girl" someday if you need proof.

    Dare to win in 2012

    by snout on Thu Jan 19, 2012 at 12:13:10 PM PST

    •  I am not a Pacifist. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      burnt out, snout, hairylarry, Matt Z

      Sometimes you have to stand up to the bully.

      What do you do when the bully is your country?

      I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
      but I fear we will remain Democrats.

      by twigg on Thu Jan 19, 2012 at 01:08:09 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I am a pacifist (0+ / 0-)

        But that doesn't mean I could have stood there and watched the pepper spray guy assault those kids.

        This is a philosophical conundrum only if you let it be. There is a huge difference between self defense or defense of others and organized slaughter.

        Thanks,

        Hairy Larry

        Please join the Protest Music Group where we sing truth to power.

        by hairylarry on Fri Jan 20, 2012 at 08:27:24 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Is it worth remembering ... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      hairylarry

      that none of the Allied powers made interference with the  Shoah an actual war objective ... or even a focus for propaganda ?

      One has to admire the consistency, I suppose,  since the Japanese Empire behaved just as badly in Manchuria as the Reich behaved in Poland -- and THAT was never a cassus belli for the Allies.

      Nor did the United States take German aggression against most of Europe or the bombing of English civilians in the summer of 1940 as a reason to interfere.

      Fortunately, some bright spark in the Japanese Admiralty, (Admiral Yamamoto) had worked up a plan for what had been a common theme in Japanese war-porn since the early 30s -- attacking the American fleet at Pearl.  Letters of agreement between the Reich and the Empire obliged Germany to declare war on the United States ...  and the rest is history.

      In retrospect it's easy to see WWII as the One Just War of the modern era because, as it turned out, the Enemy was just about a thoroughly evil as it is possible to be.

      However, at the time, the reasons for fighting this war were pretty much the same as the reasons for fighting the FIRST world war -- without which there would very probably have been no Reich and no Second world war.

  •  Glen Campbell does the most exceptional (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    twigg

    version of this song.

    We Will NOT Compromise On Fairness.

    by franklyn on Thu Jan 19, 2012 at 12:52:54 PM PST

  •  There will always be wars as long as people exist. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    twigg

    We as individuals can think and believe differently but collectively the human race can't avoid it. There will always be someone (read that as some country if you want, but people run countries so it's the same thing) who wants what someone else has and will be willing to do whatever it takes to get it, up to and including war.And there will always be someone (country if you will) that will be willing to do whatever necessary to keep it, up to and including war. I wish that weren't true but I do believe it is. It's built into us, it's human nature. You personally don't feel that way obviously and I detest war myself but I can't hide from what I see going on every day all over the world. Every day, all over the world. Every day, all over the world..... But
    I love your message and the song that speaks to it.

    Just give me some truth. John Lennon--- OWS------Too Big To Fail

    by burnt out on Thu Jan 19, 2012 at 01:40:10 PM PST

    •  Thanks :) (0+ / 0-)

      Over our history there have been many things thought to be part of our nature, the human condition.

      Some still persist, others were a function of time.

      We are social pack animals. We need each other and families became tribes, tribes regions and regions became nations.

      Communities of nations are developing that have virtually assured that war would be enormously difficult between member nations ... The European Union being the largest.

      I think it's simply a matter of time.

      I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
      but I fear we will remain Democrats.

      by twigg on Thu Jan 19, 2012 at 03:13:39 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Communities of nations have always been there in (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        twigg

        one form or another. But they exist as groups within groups that have banded together . They do this for a variety of reasons, including for the benefit of the larger group, but at the same time they do it to benefit their own group, if it didn't benefit themselves then they would not do it, at least not voluntarily. And they may even have an allegiance to the larger group but at the core they still have a stronger allegiance to their own smaller group. And sooner or later the interests of the larger group will be in conflict with the interests of one or more of the smaller groups. A lack of resources comes to mind , shortage of oil, food, water, could be anything, but something will come up that one part of the community has and other parts of the community do not have. Push will come to shove and the community of nations will fall apart, because in the end each nation will look out for it's own. You can start this scenario at the family level or the tribe level or the nation level but the end result is always the same.  Another aspect of human behavior is that we protect our own. And in spite of all our faults I can't fault us for that. I sincerely wish I shared your optimism though.

        Just give me some truth. John Lennon--- OWS------Too Big To Fail

        by burnt out on Thu Jan 19, 2012 at 03:54:09 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Two Beautiful Anti-War favorites (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mnemosyne, twigg, brae70

    Our cause is FAIRNESS. FAIRNESS for the masses. Our cause HOPE. HOPE for a better life and a better world. Yes WE Can, Yes WE Will. Together WE will OCCUPY THE WORLD. Let it be. www.OccupyOlympia.org

    by YellerDog on Thu Jan 19, 2012 at 06:37:46 PM PST

  •  another (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    twigg

    "Last Night I Had the Strangest Dream" sung by the great Joan Baez.

    Listen, are you breathing just a little and calling it a life? -- Mary Oliver

    by Mnemosyne on Thu Jan 19, 2012 at 07:03:07 PM PST

  •  Here's one that has reversed itself from pro-war (0+ / 0-)

    to a classic anti-war attitude.

    Some of the words of the 1870s music hall favorite:

    The "Dogs of War" are loose and the rugged Russian Bear,
    All bent on blood and robbery has crawled out of his lair...
    It seems a thrashing now and then, will never help to tame...
    That brute, and so he's out upon the "same old game"...
    The Lion did his best... to find him some excuse...
    To crawl back to his den again. All efforts were no use...
    He hunger'd for his victim. He's pleased when blood is shed...
    But let us hope his crimes may all recoil on his own head...

    Chorus:
    We don't want to fight but by jingo if we do...
    We've got the ships, we've got the men, and got the money too!
    We've fought the Bear before... and while we're Britons true,
    The Russians shall not have Constantinople...

    The misdeeds of the Turks have been "spouted" through all lands,
    But how about the Russians, can they show spotless hands?
    They slaughtered well at Khiva, in Siberia icy cold.
    How many subjects done to death we'll ne'er perhaps be told.
    They butchered the Circassians, man, woman yes and child.
    With cruelties their Generals their murderous hours beguiled,
    And poor unhappy Poland their cruel yoke must bear,
    While prayers for "Freedom and Revenge" go up into the air.

    (Chorus)

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