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Recently there's been a noticeable downturn in the number of things that we blame on video games in this country.

There is of course a reason for that.  The GOOD news is that the vast majority of new games are reinforcing the message that the establishment wants. Military action with no consequences is the most popular type of game nowadays!  That's right, you die, you respawn!  With loads of different ways to kill your fellow man, (Oh yeah that's right, NOBODY goes against the computer any more, it's ALL about dominating the losers!) we can safely ensure the predominance of both predatory behavior against your peers, and a love and worship of the military.  (Not the REAL military of course, the heroic ideal...)

But there's still a group of games that subverts the message of video games.  A message that is both liberal and DANGEROUS.  I'm talking of course, about Role Playing Games.

(Dangerous Liberal Bias on the Flip)

First off, the very paradigm of the game is dangerous.  You control a character who goes on adventures.  This is an extremely radical idea.  The very thought that a person should travel, see other areas, etc, etc... is a huge departure from the conservative ideal of a worker who stays at home and works faithfully at his job.  It gets even WORSE when in many science fiction and modern settings, corporations are often treated as MAJOR villians!  Clearly an attempt to demonize and destroy the hard working companies and workers who are solely responsible for our American way of life.  

It gets even worse when it comes to religion.  There are often depictions of different gods in fantasy games, and the depiction of religion in modern games is even worse!  You never see a RPG character attending a local Mega-church, do you?  No, the horror is that large establishment religions are almost NEVER treated as wise and benevolent institutions.  In fact, sometimes, these games even feature depictions of the church as corrupt!  Clearly an attempt to destroy Christianity.

And then, the player actions.  Oh god, the player actions.  Imagine this, your character is asked to help someone, and in the course of the game, they DO.  THEN, if your character demands repayment from the person they helped, they are treated as being evil!  Yes!  It is often considered EVIL to demand money from the widow whose children you just saved from the ravenous monster!  If it had not been for your character, there would have been dead children, and yet somehow, YOU'RE the bad guy if you shake down a village for protection money after clearing out the local bandits.  Payment for services rendered is treated as a gift occasionally, but the standard business practice of charging whatever the market will bear is totally unacceptable.

After this socialistic filth, you'd assume we were done, but no, many games in the RPG genre go even further than that, encouraging their players to engage in homosexuality.  Yes, you heard me right!  Many games offer a "Romance" option for players, and they have the NERVE to offer homosexuality as a legitimate option.  Even worse, some games have offered miscegenation as an option as well! I have it on very good authority that "Cheating" in such games is also treated as an evil action.  (Apparently they make exceptions for "honesty" but that's free love 60's propaganda that is obviously only included for pornographic value.) The very thought that somebody could actually want to play this through is a prime example of the depths of folly that such games can lead people to.

Worst of all, in more modern games there is often a differing appearance to your character based off of their actions.  Shockingly, acting like a conservative will often cause your character to gain scars, pale skin, and other less than attractive traits.  This suggests that power is not sexy, which of course is not true in the least.  In fact, the entire dynamic is reversed, since when a character acts like a liberal, they become more attractive!  Everyone knows that liberals are that way because they cannot get mates on their own, and so must rely on society's pity and approval to net them dates.   That is of course why they engage in such propaganda.

It is CLEARLY time to push back against this encroaching liberal propaganda.  Fortunately, we have seen some progress in recent years due to the DLC trend, with players more obsessed with spending money to get stuff than with "leveling up."  This is a good thing, because it helps reinforce the idea that you must spend money to win, and the more money you HAVE the better a person you are.  I believe that further expansion of this idea is exactly what we need.

Best of all, we need to eliminate the RPG as a genre altogether.  The very nature of the "Storytelling" mechanic requires a large investment in development time and that is simply no longer necessary.  I mean, a video game that makes you THINK?  If people thought about consequences and possibilities, they would not be confined to what is! They might start contemplating ideas that are not friendly to the tried and true ways to do things.  And that, is very, very dangerous.

Originally posted to detroitmechworks on Sat Jan 21, 2012 at 09:33 PM PST.

Also republished by Community Spotlight and Daily Kos Gamers.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Sounds like someone is playing SWTOR (17+ / 0-)

    I have been playing and as your player progresses on the Empire side one gets uglier.  Also, asking for recompense often gets one moar dark side points.

    If you want to see a game with a "liberal" bias, I suggest Anarchy Online where Omni Corp owns the planet and the Rebels are trying to keep it for themselves, thinking that since they have lived their for generations, they should have a stake in the planet.  In the old days, when you were in the dark Omni cities, the loudspeakers would repeat "Omni is your friend" and all the signage was propaganda.

    #Occupy Wallstreet - Politicians will not support the movement until it is too big to fail.

    by Sychotic1 on Sat Jan 21, 2012 at 09:49:15 PM PST

    •  Actually no... (12+ / 0-)

      But it is a major feature of almost all Bioware games.

      (Was playing Mass Effect)

      One of these days, I'm gonna learn that I'm only really good at convincing people when I'm being a wiseass. Reviewtopia.net

      by detroitmechworks on Sat Jan 21, 2012 at 09:51:45 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  The author may not be but I am (12+ / 0-)

      What he wrote about corporations and religions is just as true on the Republic side as it is on the Empire side.  Czerka Corporation are major villains on one planet and there are ruthless and power-mad Jedi around as well (not all Jedi are good).

      At least players are confronted regularly with clear moral choices.  One knows whether an action gives light side or dark side points.

      "The party of ideas has become the party of Beavis and Butthead." ~ Paul Krugman.

      by Neon Vincent on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 03:33:53 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  sorry SWTOR sucks.....did 10 min of beta & bailed (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      The Dead Man

      fave at moment is DC universe online

      the 1 I am looking foreword to is THE SECRET WORLD by funcom

      •  Perhaps thats why it sucks. youplayed (8+ / 0-)

        for 10 min.. made you an xpert did it.

        "Obama, the change that leads to indefinite detention and the abrogation of the Constitution! Yes He Can!"

        by hangingchad on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 07:46:02 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  its the mechanics-story, sound, and graphics great (0+ / 0-)

          but the mechanics make it suck

          + THE SECRET WORLD is about to set the stage with no classes 9or be a complete failure with such)

          But THE SECRET WORLD doing a classless system with total freedom in power customization might very well be the future if successful while SWTOR etc class based slow grind system with very little customization will be a dinosaur

          •  not to get into it here... (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            JesseCW, zhimbo, Matt Z

            but you dismissed a game based on the mechanics of a beta build? its a beta, its supposed to be broken. that is the whole point of having a beta, to see just how broken a thing is and then fix it.

            and they have done a decent job with the fixing. they aren't breaking any new ground with the mechanics, but it plays well enough for the story to get the spotlight it deserves.

            "There is one rule for the industrialist and that is: Make the best quality of goods possible at the lowest cost possible, paying the highest wages possible." - Henry Ford

            by sixeight120bpm on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 08:46:31 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  To be honest that depends on what beta you are (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              DEMonrat ankle biter, JesseCW

              on.  If you are in "real" beta, where it is your job to report on broken quests, mechanics, geometry and exploits then you are right, but lots of people will say they were on beta when really the only beta they were on was when the company is testing the robustness of the system to see if it is load bear and they invite everyone and their brother just to see if sheer numbers bog down the servers.

              In that case, the game should be virtually ready for release.

              I really like SWTOR, it is very engaging on a storyline level and the quests don't feel incredibly repetitive and fit in with the storyline nicely.  Beyond that the voice acting is surprisingly good.

              #Occupy Wallstreet - Politicians will not support the movement until it is too big to fail.

              by Sychotic1 on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 09:08:39 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Except that it isn't actually beta. When (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              auron renouille

              they take about a MMORPG "beta" they really mean a release candidate.  For more information check this out (emphasis mine).

              All major and most or all minor features are in the game in some form. They may still be incomplete or buggy. This is intended to find more obscure bugs, balance or tune features, and otherwise ensure the software works as intended. In a racing game, the AI may still be goaded into stupid decisions, a certain part of the wall may not have collision, but almost all tracks exist and the cars (mostly) stay on the track.

              If someone claims a product is in "beta" with major features missing, however (using the previous example, a racing game that's supposed to feature multi-level tracks but only one clipping plane works) then it isn't really in beta. This happens with depressing regularity.

              (Quoted content is under a  Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported License)

              There is no saving throw against stupid.

              by Throw The Bums Out on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 12:18:59 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  theres a difference between... (0+ / 0-)

                "Features missing" and "Features not quite functioning as well as they could". It may be splitting hairs, but there has been this growing expectation that a beta should be the polished release build with no more work left to be done, and I don't think that is the case. There won't be features missing, or big glaring bugs, but it may be in need of balance tweaking, abilities may not flow from one to the other as well as you'd like, some effects and multipliers might be a little off because someone fudged a decimal point somewhere in the thousands of lines of code.

                my point is simply this, beta's aren't release builds. they are close, but there is a difference, and even correcting a small rounding error somewhere in the deep math can make a noticeable difference to the feel and flow of how a game plays. Often these efforts do not become apparent without the large scale testing afforded by a beta test.

                "There is one rule for the industrialist and that is: Make the best quality of goods possible at the lowest cost possible, paying the highest wages possible." - Henry Ford

                by sixeight120bpm on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 01:47:32 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

          •  I know FunCom and I loved Anarchy Online (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            JesseCW

            not so much Conan.  I do hope Secret World is going to be good.  The classless system and the factions (Illuminati etc.) are going to make it interesting.

            #Occupy Wallstreet - Politicians will not support the movement until it is too big to fail.

            by Sychotic1 on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 09:05:42 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  You have a massive amount (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Sychotic1

            of options as you level, which happens pretty quickly.

            A Trooper can be a massive damage dealer, or a well-armored healer who can take a hit, or a range tank.

            A Knight can be a whirling vortex of close-in DPS, or a wall of defense.

            No, it's not hugely original.  Yes, the basic mechanics are much like every game since WoW made "EQ for ages 8-12".

            The Graphics are "Fair to Good" given what today's systems are really capable of.  

            But, the storylines are BioWare.  It's not just some wierd pile of pointless grind quests.  There's real advancement, characters, ect.  That's an improvement over every MMORPG I've played, and I've played half a dozen at least somewhat seriously.

            Fear is your only God.

            by JesseCW on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 10:26:18 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Let me just say this.. (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Sychotic1, TKO333, Matt Z

            I have played almost every mmo since Meridian 59 and up the line.. yes I have Game ADD. And Star wars has kept me  engaged like no other. Its the storey and the cool  thing is if I switch to a different faction or class I get a whole different story.. I am interested in the secret world also but so far other than the interface I love Star wars.. Everyone has thier tastes  but I am really enjoying the sith roal..   I even had a slave  who I had a shock collar on and loved ot use it liberally..  but after a while I took it off.. lol I wanted her to like me more so she woud work harder.. she got used to th epain..

            "Obama, the change that leads to indefinite detention and the abrogation of the Constitution! Yes He Can!"

            by hangingchad on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 12:32:03 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  PS if you check the gamer sites MULTITUDES bailed (0+ / 0-)

          from 10 min to 1 hour of beta testing

          it was hopelessly broken before release

          the only people who stuck with it through release were star wars fan boys who would buy a tube of toothpaste if it had star wars written on the tube

          •  Um. Biggest release in MMO history. (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            sixeight120bpm, Sychotic1, TKO333

            Broke a million active accounts in the first week.

            A lot of the people who sank 60 bucks in it (or more) played the beta.  They liked it enough to buy it.

            I'm not saying that popularity makes a good MMO.  Hell, I loved WoW for the first month, then dropped it because it just wasn't challenging and had no interesting storyline and didn't offer and real sense of achievement.

            That game still has, what, 10 million active users?

            LOTRO is a great game, with amazing depth of content, challenges that are exactly hard enough to be satisfying, and the best player base of any MMO ever.  There is endless stuff to do in that game, regardless of how long you have to play in any session, and there are real live human beings playing in-game instruments in the pubs!

            Yet, what, peaked at 400,000 active?  And didn't stay there long?

            So, I'm not saying that the game is good or bad based on explosive growth, I'm just saying that's a lousy way to measure a game.

            Fear is your only God.

            by JesseCW on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 10:33:15 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  subscriptions 3 mnths from now is what counts (0+ / 0-)

              initial purchse 1 mill is based more on star wars name than anything else

              Rifts hit 500k initial buy without the star wars name and has far better mechanics yet 3 mnths out its subscriptions fell of and are falling still

              come back and talk to me in 3 mnths from release and we cna look at the subscription numbers for star wars

              •  Rift felt like WoW (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                JesseCW

                except for those vortex things.  I tired of it quite easily because it didn't seem like a "new" game.  On the other hand, LOTRO was an awesome game and I would likely still be playing except for SWTOR.  Of course I am an old tyme gamer who doesn't feel the need to compare everything to WoW.

                SWTOR is a great game and will probably have an active player base in three months...the challenge is at 6 and 12 months.  If there isn't enough depth or end game content it will go the way of Age of Conan and it is almost impossible to get people back after that.

                #Occupy Wallstreet - Politicians will not support the movement until it is too big to fail.

                by Sychotic1 on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 12:55:13 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

        •  I beta'd for 6 months... it still sucked (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JesseCW

          as an MMO.  It's a decent single player game, though.

          NOW SHOWING
          Progressive Candidate Obama (now - Nov 6, 2012)
          Bipartisan Obama returns (Nov 7, 2012)

          by The Dead Man on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 10:17:55 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Bushwah. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Matt Z

        Anyone who is willing to commit two neurons to learning how SW:TOR's mechanics work will find it fiarly intuitive and easy. And the storyline rocks.

        Oh, and STAR FOX!! Oops, space combat.

      •  I played the Beta and am now palying, but (0+ / 0-)

        I'm thinking of bailing out, because the hardware requirements have changed (it seems) and I can't hardly do anything. I have  about second delay from hitting an action key to it's execution.

        I don't anticipate the game will  continue to attract new users until they improve on the client side performance. It's  no fun when you experience lots of frustration due to poor performance.

        When I cannot sing my heart. I can only speak my mind.

        by Unbozo on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 01:36:11 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  SWTOR (5+ / 0-)

      SWTOR is pretty simple-minded in its romance choices, and if you want anything even vaguely same-sex you're really out of luck.  I wouldn't hold it up as a paragon of liberal bias.  

      Actually, there's a disturbing bit of Romance Is Evil stuff in the early Jedi quests that turned my stomach.

      •  couple of things... (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        raptavio, James Allen, Sychotic1, SBE, JesseCW

        the romance is evil bits of the jedi side are because of the jedi code at this point in the history, vows of celibacy stuff and all that. no emotions, no love, only the force. its not evil, just against the code, hence the darkside points. darkside/lightside isn't necessarily evil/good.

        as far as same sex romances, Bioware has said they are working on it. It wasn't initially planned but thanks to community outrage at statements like "There are no gays in starwars", its on the way, not ETA though.

        Now if you'll excuse me, my nerd is showing. I have to go cover that up so i can be Serious About Politics again! :P

        "There is one rule for the industrialist and that is: Make the best quality of goods possible at the lowest cost possible, paying the highest wages possible." - Henry Ford

        by sixeight120bpm on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 07:52:15 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  play Skyrim (9+ / 0-)

        any mutually consenting couple can get married, regardless of gender!

        I changed by not changing at all, small town predicts my fate, perhaps that's what no one wants to see. -6.38, -4.15

        by James Allen on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 08:17:25 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Glad to hear they're bringing that along. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sixeight120bpm, JesseCW, Matt Z

        I just wish that game wasn't an MMO. I've never really enjoyed MMOs. I loved the old Kotor, and I was hoping they'd make a new SW game with the Mass Effect engine. Live Action First Person combat. That was the only thing I disliked about KOTOR and KOTOR 2 growing up. I hate point and click combat. I've never been able to get into it.

        The strategic options it gives you are great, but if I'm getting into strategy, I'm playing something massive like Europa Universalis, or Empire TW.

        Add in a subscription fee to this equation and you loose me as a player. If they ever get rid of those fees, I'll play it for the story, but I seriously doubt that will happen.

        I hope it's successful because I want BioWare to make me another SW single player game at some point.

        An Fhirinn an aghaidh an t'Saoghail.

        by OllieGarkey on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 08:38:03 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  SWTOR feels like KOTOR (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JesseCW

          it sort of feels like a sandbox game in an MMO setting.  My son LOVED KOTOR and adores SWTOR.

          #Occupy Wallstreet - Politicians will not support the movement until it is too big to fail.

          by Sychotic1 on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 09:11:18 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Sandbox is not anywhere near what TOR is (0+ / 0-)

            It's a the pinnacle of theme park design --  Everything is railed and pathed for you to go down so much they had to stagger the release to keep people from bottlenecking too much running the quest lines.

            NOW SHOWING
            Progressive Candidate Obama (now - Nov 6, 2012)
            Bipartisan Obama returns (Nov 7, 2012)

            by The Dead Man on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 10:22:09 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  You might be suprised. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Sychotic1, zedaker

          D&D online and LOTRO both offer somewhat crippled versions for free.

          Honestly, they're playable without the pay for play bells and whistles.

          Seems to be the way things are moving - pay for expansion packs and additional content access instead of (rather than in addition to) a monthly fee.

          Fear is your only God.

          by JesseCW on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 10:37:20 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  I just want Bioware to make me... (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          zhimbo, Sychotic1, JesseCW

          A Firefly Single Player RPG...

          Yeah, Fox sold the rights to a Vaporware company... bastards...

          One of these days, I'm gonna learn that I'm only really good at convincing people when I'm being a wiseass. Reviewtopia.net

          by detroitmechworks on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 10:44:47 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Great, sounds like Star Gate (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            JesseCW

            My brother's company bought the rights.  When I saw who was developing it and where they came from (Matrix Online anyone?) I knew that it would never see the light of day.

            #Occupy Wallstreet - Politicians will not support the movement until it is too big to fail.

            by Sychotic1 on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 12:59:05 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Matrix Online Wasn't Vaporware (0+ / 0-)

              Matrix Online did run for several years, although I never knew anyone who actually played it.

              I actually received beta invitations for the Stargate MMORPG, though I never accepted any of them and have no idea what the status of that game is.

              •  I am surprised, I was told that it never actually (0+ / 0-)

                made it to beta.  Matrix wasn't vaporware but it was one of the poorest roll outs of an MMO I have seen in...forever

                #Occupy Wallstreet - Politicians will not support the movement until it is too big to fail.

                by Sychotic1 on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 10:25:37 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

      •  Ironically, (0+ / 0-)

        the Sith Inquisitor romance (Ashara) is generally portrayed as a "good", or at least humanising, detail of the SI as a character.

        Also, BioWare have confirmed that one of their patches will write in same-gender romance options. That was LucasArts, with their asinine "No homosexuals in Star Wars!!" stance (I kid you not).

      •  There's LOTS of romance choices. (0+ / 0-)

        They're just choices between players.

        It's an mmoRPG.

        Fear is your only God.

        by JesseCW on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 03:13:26 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  31 Juggernaught Sith here (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      raptavio, Matt Z

      And I am very dark.

      "Obama, the change that leads to indefinite detention and the abrogation of the Constitution! Yes He Can!"

      by hangingchad on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 07:44:57 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Funcom sucks (0+ / 0-)

      As a player of Anarchy Online (back when it first came out), they suck.  Their game concepts rock, but implementation... UG.

      Minority rights should never be subject to majority vote.

      by lostboyjim on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 08:45:52 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Deliciously subversive games are good. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    detroitmechworks, Anjana, Matt Z

    Provided it's good subversion, not the terrible, unamerical traitorous subversion of the American right extremist of the Republican Party.

    Those people are out to destroy the nation we love.

    Wait, that sounds like a good RPG.

    My other great idea is a weekly comedy show featuring Senator Crackpot and Senator Carolini -- based on a true story.

    Roughly modeled after John McCain and his buddy. Crackpot's daughter knows Carolini is gay and urges him to come out, but he says thence be admitting he was a self-hating gay and that doesn't fit his image.

    Senate Crackpot, not realizing what he's talking about, .... Then someone pulls out a chain gun and lets them both have it.

  •  The Elder Scrolls games (17+ / 0-)

    In Skyrim economic inequality and racism are both major themes.

    In Oblivion being kind to beggars would help later in the game.

    In Morrowind economic inequality wasn't made much of an issue as a theme of the game, but while being a generally socially conservative people (aside from their notorious promiscuity), the native Dunmer of Morrowind were also fairly economically left-wing.

    quotes from Temple priests:

    Like loving ancestors, the Tribunal guards and counsels us. Like stern parents, they punish our sins and errors. Like generous relatives, they share their bounty among the greatest and least, according to their needs.

    Extracting profit from trade and interest steals wealth from the deserving and puts it in the hands of thieves and extortionists.

    Worshippers of Fortune scorn the Temple Law of Fair Price and Fair Labor, and assert that Might makes Right in measuring price and labor.
    Fortune is the corrupt spirit of commerce, profit, and usury. It is worshipped under the name of Zenithar in the Empire.

    (that being a foreign God)

    I changed by not changing at all, small town predicts my fate, perhaps that's what no one wants to see. -6.38, -4.15

    by James Allen on Sat Jan 21, 2012 at 10:26:39 PM PST

    •  Yup... all clearly liberal bias! (6+ / 0-)

      Everybody knows that if it had been a good Republican game, there would have been NO racism...

      The minorities would simply have known their place and be happy...

      And that beggar thing, well, are there no poorhouses?

      And any communistic talk that doesn't IMMEDIATELY denounce it as evil, is of course... WRONG!!!

      /snark

      One of these days, I'm gonna learn that I'm only really good at convincing people when I'm being a wiseass. Reviewtopia.net

      by detroitmechworks on Sat Jan 21, 2012 at 10:31:01 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Skyrim (17+ / 0-)

      Skyrim surprised a lot of people (myself included) who got an initial impression of the existing rulers as repressive, and joined the rebellion, only to discover that they're very nazi-like.

      Now I'm going to have to play the whole thing through again from the other side.

      •  same here (14+ / 0-)

        After the opening scene I was like "Rebellion all the way!" But then I started meeting stormcloaks and getting into that story and immediately switched sides. Very clever twist for Bethesda to pull off. Here in America, largely due to our revolutionary origin, the rebels are almost always painted in a positive light. It was interesting to see that paradigm flipped.

        "There is one rule for the industrialist and that is: Make the best quality of goods possible at the lowest cost possible, paying the highest wages possible." - Henry Ford

        by sixeight120bpm on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 07:18:52 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  As a huge Morrowind fan I started out as Dunmer, (6+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        raptavio, SBE, Timaeus, stunzeed, Matt Z, Clues

        and because we hate the Nords (they conquered and ruled over us ages ago), I sided with the Empire, to keep the Nords down.  I sided with the man!

        I changed by not changing at all, small town predicts my fate, perhaps that's what no one wants to see. -6.38, -4.15

        by James Allen on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 07:54:21 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  I havent gotten that far (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SBE, JesseCW, Matt Z, Clues

        But no shouts of spoilers or condemning. I knew it was going down that path. It was obvious. And its obvious that both sides are kinda..messed up. I joined the rebellion because of the incompetence of the imperials. Had they not wasted their time executing a random Stormcloak redshirt, and some Khajiit who just happened to be there, they couldve...Well you know who they didnt manage to kill, no need to go into it.

        My kitty will not reward such incompetence!...I figure i was gonna turn on everyone eventually anyway so whatever :)

        Skulls are not supposed to jump around!

        by kamrom on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 08:24:00 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  I found that neither side was "good." (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SBE, JesseCW, Timaeus, Matt Z, Clues

        An imperialistic power is destroying local religion and culture, which stoked a nationalist rebellion.

        Not a fun situation to be in, which is why the game is good.

        In principal, I supported ending the Empire and liberating Skyrim, but the xenophobia had me questioning my actions the whole way through.

        Gives you a lot to think about.

        An Fhirinn an aghaidh an t'Saoghail.

        by OllieGarkey on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 08:27:31 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Actually, both the Empire and the (4+ / 0-)

        Stormcloaks have huge negatives. It's very intricate and convoluted. I went with the Stormcloak rebels as the lesser of two evils.

    •  Fallout similarly portrays the racism and (8+ / 0-)

      inequality issues, the racism being not against other races but against irradiated "ghoul" characters, and has a few subversive hits against modern-day conservatives. In one town, which seems very happy (for Capital Wasteland standards), the family there, who jingoistically adore the concept of (fervently anti-liberal and anti-Communist) pre-war America and go on and on about the need to vote Republican... They turn out to be inbred cannibals :)

      15 years old and fighting like hell to make a difference, Tomorrowsprogressives.com

      by TomorrowsProgressives on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 07:26:58 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Dagger Fall. (4+ / 0-)

      For today August 9 I found a signature. I am a badger in heart today. Fight on Wisconsin.

      by the mom in the middle on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 07:49:06 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  My first game in the series was Morrowind. (3+ / 0-)

        I never played Daggerfall, but Morrowind got me hooked.

        I changed by not changing at all, small town predicts my fate, perhaps that's what no one wants to see. -6.38, -4.15

        by James Allen on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 07:55:03 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  My husband (3+ / 0-)

          loves the Daggerfall game it self. I rented the lasted of the series and he was disappointed again. They aren't Daggerfall he says. We still have the computer disc but it doesn't run on 7 lol.

          For today August 9 I found a signature. I am a badger in heart today. Fight on Wisconsin.

          by the mom in the middle on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 08:31:20 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Morrowind is still my all-time favorite (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          James Allen, Matt Z

          computer game, and I've been playing since the early 1980s.

          You could fly!  I had a mod where I had aerial battles with dragons.  And if you learned to max out enchanting and alchemy, you could make yourself a 100% armor suit out of fine clothes only.

          So with a ring of flying, and a ring of invisibility, and clothes making me invulnerable with the Sanctuary spell, I could fly around and bomb anything on the map.  Awesome.  I played that game all the way through about four times, and it's a big game.

          Oblivion and Skyrim are disappointments for taking out flying. I thought Oblivion was boring and I never finished. But Skyrim is very good indeed.

          •  Oblivion I thought was fun, but felt different. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Timaeus, Matt Z

            Skyrim feels like Morrowind again.  And not just because they brought back some of the music.

            Although I'm mourning the loss of the old leveling system, but I thought Oblivion's sucked, too.  And I want my spears, goddammitt!

            I changed by not changing at all, small town predicts my fate, perhaps that's what no one wants to see. -6.38, -4.15

            by James Allen on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 10:56:30 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Oblivion feels shallow (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              James Allen, Timaeus, joe wobblie, Matt Z

              It's like they spent all their time building hundreds of dungeons (which still all manage to feel identical, within four basic types- fort, cave, ayelid, oblivion) and forgot to add special abilities, different kinds of enemies (oh, look, skeleton #4,631,544), or differentiate between spells.  Elemental damage has got to be THE laziest mechanic for differentiating magic EVER.  Taking away things like levitation and absurd jump heights and running speeds was a huge mistake IMO.

              Oh well, I'm still playing it, with a ton of mods (FCOM and a few tweaks like bow sway) that for example take away the enemy leveling.  Marauders with Daedric armor, ehh what?

              •  yeah, although it can be rough early on (0+ / 0-)

                because you might run into an enemy who's much higher level than you, those kinds of mods are necessities in Oblivion.  In Skyrim they seem to have reduced the occurrence of higher level items, which is nice.  And I think after about 3 weeks I am already a higher level than I ever got in 5 years of playing Oblivion on and off.

                I changed by not changing at all, small town predicts my fate, perhaps that's what no one wants to see. -6.38, -4.15

                by James Allen on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 09:43:39 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

          •  Morrowind is horribly broken with even basic (0+ / 0-)

            alchemy.  First, make a few intelligence boosting potions (unlike Oblivion, you can use an ingredient effect even if you can't see it) and drink it.  As your intelligence goes up the potion strength will increase and soon your intelligence score will be over a thousand.  Then you can make healing potions that heal you instantly and last for days among other things.

            Another favorite is to have a constant effect slow fall item equipped and then make a ring that can cast a 100 point fortify acrobatics and 100 point fortify agility (or perhaps it was speed) for 2 seconds.  You can then cross the entire game map in only 5 jumps.

            There is no saving throw against stupid.

            by Throw The Bums Out on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 12:24:29 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  I Loved Morrowind (4+ / 0-)

      that game got me hooked. The political aspects were indeed excellent. The way you had to go kiss ass and run quests among both the aristocracy in their mansions and the rural mystics in their huts was almost like a campaign trail. (I actually came to think of the latter as Fremen, mostly because it always seemed like a sandstorm blew up whenever you went to Dunmer villages)

      I also liked how the God Vivec ended up being humbled at the end, repented of his God-hood and vowed to help the people of Morrowind instead of subjugate them. Something like that, anyway, it's a been a long time.

      Great game

      Wakeful people make better democracy. Anybody else want some coffee?

      by Hammerhand on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 09:35:21 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  My 12 year old daughter requested (7+ / 0-)

      that game Skyrim; Elder Scrolls for Christmas. Her father approved it so I got it. He's a big time gamer and he knows what is appropriate for her.

      He won't let her have Call of Duty Black Ops or Modern Warfare because of the deaths of innocents portrayed in the game. He felt that it was disturbing and corrupting.

      LOL Good to know that Skyrim is not undermining the values I'm trying to teach her even though her father seems to be trying a bit. He father is really starting to worry me with his strange and new lust for the 2nd amendment. He's getting this crap from his coworkers. Ironically, they all work for a Warren Buffet company so they're all full of shit with their several thousand dollar Christmas bonuses that they would be hard pressed to get at any other company.

      "It's not enough to acknowledge privilege. You have to resist." -soothsayer

      by GenXangster on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 09:57:12 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Paying attention to what you're buying your kid? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        GenXangster, Cassandra Waites

        Why that's just liberal thinking there!

        That's why games have RATINGS!  Course the rating system that actually told you what was IN the game was rejected in favor of one that just repeats the MPAA ideals.

        /snark

        One of these days, I'm gonna learn that I'm only really good at convincing people when I'm being a wiseass. Reviewtopia.net

        by detroitmechworks on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 10:02:08 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Are you aware that Skyrim lets you (3+ / 0-)

        join the Dark Brotherhood (ruthless assassins) where you are forced to murder people you know are innocent, who beg for the sake of their children?  And you can do so while you are a Vampire?  And you can also do that while engaged in a homosexual marriage?

        One of the Daedric quests requires you to deceive a trusted friend and follower (and possibly spouse) into following you to a remote location where you trick her, trap her, torture her, and then murder her in cold blood, in order to get a suit of armor?

        I'm a goody-goody, so I didn't take any of those options.

        But it's one dark game.

        •  Ahh, but that is all treated as EVIL! (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          GenXangster, Matt Z

          Where Clearly much of that is the Conservative IDEAL!

          The Dark Brotherhood provides a SERVICE.  They are nothing more than the extension of the client, and therefore blameless.  If the "Victims" were proactive, they simply would have hired the brotherhood FIRST.

          Vampires are predators who live off the weak.  Just like Bain corporation.  Therefore proactive and innovative.

          and on that quest, if you are CAUGHT doing it they treat you like a criminal!  Where clearly you were doing it for the best of motives and should have been applauded for doing what needed to be done for your own profit.

          /snark

          One of these days, I'm gonna learn that I'm only really good at convincing people when I'm being a wiseass. Reviewtopia.net

          by detroitmechworks on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 10:56:31 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  I think her dad was okay with it because (5+ / 0-)

          it didn't make her feel rewarded or heroic for such actions in the game. It's clearly a dark choice that makes you evil. Being evil has it's drawbacks. He plays the games more than she does. They play Left For Dead and Bioshock, etc. I think he also had a problem with a Rainbow Six game because of the morality factor.

          I only play The Sims 3 meself. I just like playing with virtual dollhouses.

          "It's not enough to acknowledge privilege. You have to resist." -soothsayer

          by GenXangster on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 11:05:22 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Early thieves guild is worse than the (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Timaeus

          Brotherhood.  They lost the notion of "Honor Among Thieves".

          I changed by not changing at all, small town predicts my fate, perhaps that's what no one wants to see. -6.38, -4.15

          by James Allen on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 09:50:43 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  I am LOVING Skyrim eom (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      James Allen
  •  Ever play Xenogears? (4+ / 0-)

    It's one of my favorites. Also, Mass Effect is one of the best games in the last 10 years in my opinion.

    So say we all! Battlestar Galactica (re-imagined version)

    by nerve on Sat Jan 21, 2012 at 11:38:41 PM PST

    •  Honestly I couldn't get into it... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Matt Z

      Not a huge fan of the J-RPG myself... about the only one I really got into was the Persona series when I was getting ready to deploy.  That one was pretty fun.

      One of these days, I'm gonna learn that I'm only really good at convincing people when I'm being a wiseass. Reviewtopia.net

      by detroitmechworks on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 08:49:11 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well, just keep in mind that Persona is much (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Matt Z

        harder than your standard JRPG, especially the later ones.  In fact, in later SMT/Persona games if you do the smart thing and make your characters immune to the elements the boss uses then the boss will just use an unblockable instant death attack that does not count toward his normal moves (so if it is a boss that uses only fire and you equip half of your team with fire immunity gear then half your team will be killed off before the first turn and will be instantly killed if revived even if the boss has already used all it's turns attacking).

        Yes, there is a reason people want to change the term Nintendo Hard to "Atlus Hard"

        There is no saving throw against stupid.

        by Throw The Bums Out on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 12:27:52 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  mixed economies as well (5+ / 0-)

    Anyone in a guild benefits from collective effort (from each according to his DPS, to each according to his DKP). Auction houses behave according to supply & demand, and zero unemployment ensures that everyone has access to the highest standard of living.

  •  20 seconds of total confusion (10+ / 0-)

    as my mind tried in vain to determine how a rocket propelled grenade could have a liberal bias...

    A persons word used to be their contract, now people use contracts to get out of keeping their word.

    by bitpyr8 on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 12:59:03 AM PST

  •  My son played Fable (14+ / 0-)

    I admit he was a bit too young at the time, but his big brother was playing and he became obsessed with it in his Aspergery way, so I caved. (Heck, I read The Exorcist and Audrey Rose when I was young and I didn't go on to kill people.) I just made the rule that he could not be evil. Apparently, he did not heed me, and one day came to me crying, "Mom, all the kids cry and run away when they see me and I am ugly with bugs on my head." He was clearly very sad about this. We talked to big brother and learned that if he started doing good things, the bugs would go away and he would not frighten people with his ugliness. So he became a nice guy and was much happier and always chooses the Helpful options now. :) That is a lesson he might not have learned if I had not ignored the rating and let him play. And he is very opposed in real life to hurting anyone except his other brother, so I don't think it scarred him in a bad way.

    We Won't Let Republicans Replace Medicare with GOP Vouchercare!

    by CatM on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 05:56:03 AM PST

  •  The following quote exposes you as a (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DEMonrat ankle biter, Matt Z

    RWNJ like Noot:

    Best of all, we need to eliminate the RPG as a genre altogether.
    =

    censorship, condemnation, job-killer, communist.

    j/k

    If life gives you melons, you may be dyslexic.

    by glorificus on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 06:27:35 AM PST

    •  I sometimes feel like C.S. Lewis said... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Hammerhand, Timaeus, Matt Z

      he felt after writing Screwtape...

      Said something to the effect of he didn't LIKE thinking that way, because even treating evil as an acceptable stance was giving it power...

      ;)

      One of these days, I'm gonna learn that I'm only really good at convincing people when I'm being a wiseass. Reviewtopia.net

      by detroitmechworks on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 08:53:26 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Heh... (6+ / 0-)

    My first thought reading your headline, "WHAT? Rocket Propelled Grenades have a Liberal bias?"

    You can tell what kind of games I played as a teen.

    FREEDOM ISN'T FREE: That's why we pay taxes. Read the PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRAT Newsletter

    by mole333 on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 07:24:20 AM PST

  •  Nice diary! (5+ / 0-)

    I realize it is satire, but as a long time PC RPG Gamer (I bought Baldur's Gate on release day!), I have several times run across articles that make all the same points with a dead serious straight face.

    Personally, I think a game is a game. I'v been gaming as a hobby for twenty years. I, like most people, have the ability to separate reality from fantasy and realize that while killing someone in a game is just pushing buttons to make pixels go away, real life is quite different. I think you'll find the vast majority of gamers are like that. the ones over 18 anyways, Kids are kids and need boundaries on this stuff.

    We're just reasonable people with an oft-demonized hobby where-in we socialize, solve puzzles, make strategic decisions, manage economies small and large and yes, occasionally shoot fake bullets at fake people who are fake and not real and we know that. :D

    "There is one rule for the industrialist and that is: Make the best quality of goods possible at the lowest cost possible, paying the highest wages possible." - Henry Ford

    by sixeight120bpm on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 07:25:52 AM PST

    •  Scary thing: I have too... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sixeight120bpm, SBE, Matt Z

      Time to pull out my favorite H.G. Wells paraphrase:

      Digital soldiers leave no digital widow and no digital orphan.

      Sad thing is the hobby is LESS demonized now, seeing as it's a large source of profit for certain corporations...

      I miss the old trend of people making games they wanted to play.  (Still see it occasionally in the "indie" game market...)

      One of these days, I'm gonna learn that I'm only really good at convincing people when I'm being a wiseass. Reviewtopia.net

      by detroitmechworks on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 08:56:41 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  To me, an "RPG" is a rocket-propelled grenade. (4+ / 0-)

    That shows my age, I guess.

  •  I thought this diary was going to be (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Anjana, Matt Z

    about rocket propelled grenades.

    Oh well

  •  While it is not an RPG... (6+ / 0-)

    I would strongly encourage people to pay close attention to the politics of the Grand Theft Auto games.  There are political themes throughout the game, the easiest way to find them is get in a vehicle and flip the radio station to one of the talk stations.  In GTA IV there is a right-wing station with a Rush Limbaugh parody and it is hilarious, news updates are brought by Weasel News and their logo is almost identical to Fox's.  There may be some friendly poking at the left as well, but the right gets absolutely skewered.  I really think the politics are the main reason the games are so controversial, yes there is some over the top violent and sexual content but it is all tongue in cheek.  The main reason I think many are so offended by it is it is a mirror of American society and the satire skewers so many sacred cows.

    •  This is AMERICA! (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RanDomino, Matt Z

      Violence Good-  consequences bad.
      Sex good-  Women enjoying it, BAD.

      etc...etc...

      So much of this phoney outrage precisely mirrors the MPAA ratings for movies, that I can't help but be suspicious.

      One of these days, I'm gonna learn that I'm only really good at convincing people when I'm being a wiseass. Reviewtopia.net

      by detroitmechworks on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 08:58:25 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  In San Andreas you play as a BLACK MAN (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Matt Z

      A scary black man with a gun. Yes. Scary. Very scary.

      Oh what the hell, he's a poor schlub who screwed up his life and is trying to straighten it out. If he has to shoot a couple people to get it straightened out, then whatever. Besides, the cops are more crooked than he is.

      (not actually in favor of solving problems by shooting people in real life; above was meant to be mostly a joke)

    •  We had to get rid of GTA several years ago (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Matt Z

      we never let my son play them, but he had seen his father play it several times, and being autistic, he took things too literally. One day we were walking to the grocery store (didn't and don't have a car) and he asked me "Mom, why are we walking? there's a car lot right there, we could just take one like in that video game dad plays."

      GTA got traded next time we got to Rhino video games LOL. But my son was about 7 at that point. He's a bit better with such things now. Right now his favorite games are Spore and DarkSpore (which is an RPG based on the Spore engine.) He makes the most interesting creatures, though we've decided a career in genetic engineering may not be a um.. best choice for him LOL.

      "Madness! Total and complete madness! This never would've happened if the humans hadn't started fighting one another!" Londo Mollari

      by FloridaSNMOM on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 03:36:07 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Rightwing politics get clobberd in the GTA games. (0+ / 0-)

      The Republican Space Rangers cartoon that you can watch on tv in GTA4 is a good example of that.

      "Progress is possible. Don't give up on voting. Don't give up on advocacy. Don't give up on activism. There are too many needs to be met, too much work to be done." - Barack Obama

      by eaglekid85va on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 10:17:25 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  You want a real liberal bias rpg? (6+ / 0-)

    Turn off the computer and grab a game book, some dice, and a couple of friends.

    'cause then you're not at the mercy of the programmer and his corporate master.

    The real enemy of the good is not the perfect, but the mediocre.

    by Orange County Liberal on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 08:43:03 AM PST

  •  Wow... I post this, hang a round for an hour... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sixeight120bpm, DMiller, Matt Z

    Nothing's happening, so I go to bed, and BAM next morning I have 30 responses to deal with!

    Thanks for the love folks!  AGAIN!

    One of these days, I'm gonna learn that I'm only really good at convincing people when I'm being a wiseass. Reviewtopia.net

    by detroitmechworks on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 08:43:23 AM PST

  •  Pokemon (3+ / 0-)

    Clearly liberal propaganda. I mean, it lets you play as a girl now! Can you imagine?! girls playing video games! Oh, and now they have this dream world thing..where they actually suggest you make friends, and then water their berry gardens! For FREE! Because you are their friend! Socialist nonsense.

    And really, as one Team Galactic grunt said, why is everyone getting so mad about having their pokemon stolen! Pokemon are all over the place, they should just go catch more!

    Oh, and did you hear? Some people are actually saying it was Shinra that dropped the sector 7 plate! Clearly, that was the work of AVALANCHE. And now they're spreading this...stupid propaganda. They say, "Oh, theres a biig huge disaster heading right for us really obviously so, and everyone see's it coming, and its really undeniable at this point!"

    Liberal propaganda. Everyone knows that Meteor doesn't even exist!!

    Skulls are not supposed to jump around!

    by kamrom on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 08:48:47 AM PST

  •  In some games, maybe. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    detroitmechworks

    But I have run across far too many games and game worlds that were entirely based on "go kill something, then steal their stuff".  Anything to increase personal power and decrease responsibility and consequences.

    I tried for years to make my game more 'liberal', and got oodles of negative feedback from players who just wanted bloodshed and loot.

    I am not religious, and did NOT say I enjoyed sects.

    by trumpeter on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 09:02:24 AM PST

  •  ah, and here I thought it was pen and paper RPGs (6+ / 0-)

    You were talking about.

    You know, the games that caused a huge freakout by conservatives in the 1980s, because, amazingly, a game could be played for hours that required only imagination, a set of dice, pencil, paper, and friends.

    Above Grecian mantles were chiseled these words... Know Thyself... Nothing in Excess... the pop philosophy of its day.

    by ravagerofworlds2 on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 09:07:33 AM PST

    •  Those had a liberal bias TOO! (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      catwho, Matt Z

      Fortunately, Hasbro and GW are doing their best to transform that particular hobby into a "More money, spend more money" hobby...

      ;)

      One of these days, I'm gonna learn that I'm only really good at convincing people when I'm being a wiseass. Reviewtopia.net

      by detroitmechworks on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 09:10:12 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Only kind of RPG I play! (3+ / 0-)

      I don't mind interacting via the keyboard on DailyKos but I need the face to face interaction to make roleplaying enjoyable. I play many game systems, but it's just not roleplaying for me unless I can see and hear (and reach over and slap upside the head if needed) the other players.

    •  I was happy when they let Drow be non-evil (3+ / 0-)

      I mean, a race led by powerful, scary black women is only evil in the minds of stupid white men.

      The lesser of two evils . . . is still evil.

      by Pale Jenova on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 10:53:48 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  drow coverart (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        detroitmechworks, Matt Z

        is also very, very S&M.

        There's a reason 1 in 5 rpgers are females : /  (2000 Wizards of the Coast)

        Above Grecian mantles were chiseled these words... Know Thyself... Nothing in Excess... the pop philosophy of its day.

        by ravagerofworlds2 on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 12:20:49 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  What you mean it's NOT because... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Matt Z

          The first edition of D&D didn't include women?  Or that when they were added most of their spells had to deal with "Seducing" monsters?

          I'm shocked...

          /snark

          One of these days, I'm gonna learn that I'm only really good at convincing people when I'm being a wiseass. Reviewtopia.net

          by detroitmechworks on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 12:27:52 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  There was an interesting sociological study (0+ / 0-)

            on the then burgeoning RPG phenomenon by Gary Alan Fine back in 1979-1981. Here it is. Most of the tenants still hold true in terms of male/female dynamics. My wife and my current group is all female atm (excluding moi). I try to be conscious in the stories I run (the last adventure, they rescued a dim-wit merchant's son, who was seduced by an Underdark Avolakia from an immortality cult). Fun times!

            Above Grecian mantles were chiseled these words... Know Thyself... Nothing in Excess... the pop philosophy of its day.

            by ravagerofworlds2 on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 12:56:43 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I have found that women make better role players (0+ / 0-)

              than men--men tend to be power gamers who try to exploit rules loopholes to make godlike characters. Women tend to get into their characters' roles better.

              Sweeping generalizations based on anecdotal evidence, but there you have it.

              The lesser of two evils . . . is still evil.

              by Pale Jenova on Mon Jan 23, 2012 at 06:40:50 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

    •  This is me (2+ / 0-)

      I do more pen and paper than videogame RPGs. One of the most overt and over the top with the liberal bias was Shadowrun. Fighting the corporate security state since 2011 (or was it 2012?). Booyah.

      These games really do promote cooperation and creative thinking. Most of all they promote cooperation. The characters who fly off the handle and go off on their own to do something are almost always the ones who die the quickest.

      •  I LOVE Shadowrun (0+ / 0-)

        Been playing it since 1st Ed back in the late 80's!  The way that game has changed as real-life technology and events have (consider that there was still a Soviet Union when it was first published, and that early rules for computers made them LESS powerful than today's cell phones).

        I love what they've done with the modern stuff, right down to the evil-Google shout out of the Horizon Group.

        "If you don't stick to your values when tested, they're not values! They're hobbies" - Jon Stewart

        by LivingOxymoron on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 07:44:03 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Awesome! (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          LivingOxymoron

          I did not even realize that the Horizon Group was supposed to be Evil Google, but when I think about what the Horizon Group does and what Google does, the parallels become pretty obvious.

          Unfortunately, I've only played a Shadowrun campaign once, and in that game we were playing low rent, no-name criminals from the Redmond Barrens. All in all, it still had potential to go interesting places, but we met irregularly, and the campaign didn't last long enough to really get into it. All the other opportunities I've had for playing Shadowrun never materialized.

          It is really cool how they've updated things, but left others as they were. It cracked me up that (as of the 4th edition) the Alaska Way Viaduct still exists in 2070. I wonder if it'll be kept around for old time's sake; as far as I know, they didn't write the King Dome out either.

          Cheers from one gamer to another!

  •  Peter Molyneux (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    detroitmechworks, SBE, catwho, Matt Z

    You must have experience with that man's games.

    Play through Fable, become attractive, and walk down Knothole Glade's main street.

    You will get propositioned for marriage by a man. If you have a wedding ring and a house in town you can then propose to him; and then you can go to your house with your new partner and after a bit of convincing consummate the union. It's not just liberal bias, it's liberal bias featuring teh gay sex.

    Good times. I love that game.

       

    Wakeful people make better democracy. Anybody else want some coffee?

    by Hammerhand on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 09:08:46 AM PST

    •  It gets WORSE! (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Hammerhand, catwho, Matt Z

      Bioware's Jade Empire actually let you have a long drawn out conversation with a party member... and if you took your time and really got to know him...  You GOT to KNOW him...

      (Course the same thing happened with either of the two potential female love interests...  or both at the same time...)

      One of these days, I'm gonna learn that I'm only really good at convincing people when I'm being a wiseass. Reviewtopia.net

      by detroitmechworks on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 09:14:09 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  FFXI... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    detroitmechworks, Matt Z

    ... The players chased off honest, hardworking RMT Chinese who were just trying to capitalize off the system.  Now Square Enix has the audacity to ban players engaged in monetary transactions outside the game.  How utterly un-capitalistic!  

    Even worse, the game itself promotes socialism in the highest form - free housing for every player, no questions asked.

    Keep your religion out of my government.

    by catwho on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 09:27:07 AM PST

  •  Would like to republish to Dkos Gamers? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    detroitmechworks, Matt Z

    Congats on the CS!  Could we republish this to the gamers group?  

    •  Feel Free! (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SoCaliana, Matt Z

      I am never one to turn down somebody who wants to read my stuff!

      (That's gotta be why I'm always broke...  I never DEMAND money from people for doing something I love.)

      One of these days, I'm gonna learn that I'm only really good at convincing people when I'm being a wiseass. Reviewtopia.net

      by detroitmechworks on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 10:07:13 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Final Fantasy 7 (4+ / 0-)

    Where you fight the evil Shinra corporation that has nearly destroyed the planet with its environmental predation (and is to blame for all the monsters you have to fight, too). They control the energy, the commerce, the media, and they even have a private military force.

    Your heroes? An eco-terrorist group named Avalanche, led by a schizophrenic bad-ass named Cloud Strife. But he can kick Shinra ass with his 35 lb. sword!

    (By the way, if he really treats the women rudely, he can earn a "date" with the overbuilt gang-banger Barret Wallace, though it's more a Bromance than anything else.)

    The lesser of two evils . . . is still evil.

    by Pale Jenova on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 10:45:54 AM PST

    •  This, so much this (0+ / 0-)

      Heheheh, it's right that someone called "Pale Jenova" should bring this up. I made much the same points in a comment of my own. Final Fantasy VII is easily one of the most overtly radical RPGs to have ever been released, and I think if it ever gets a wide re-release and graphics update, there will be a lot of noise made about it.

      The Bromance was hilarious. Also cool was the fact that seemingly all of the women in that game got the better of Cloud. Yuffie got his materia, Aerith got what she wanted, and Tifa... well, Tifa got him. I think they were all, in there way, different archetypes of the strong, independent woman. Or maybe I just thought they were hot. Whatever, lol.

  •  OTOH there are fascist undertones in some fantasy (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    detroitmechworks, joe wobblie, Matt Z

    The fantasy genre in particular is heavily influenced by the unfortunately eugenicist writings of Robert E. Howard.  Tolkien's works all had to do with the civilized "West" (which, of course, had good breeding) under constant siege by a Satan-analogue who dictatorially controls an infinitely-large army of maniacal subhumans bent on pillage.

    Luckily there was also Michael Moorcock's Elric series to balance things out (which is an apt choice of words now that I think about it).  Great, now I have to listen to this.

    I've been wrestling with this seeming conflict, between fascist and anarchist/communist themes and values in early 20th-century fantasy in particular, and it turns out there's a lot to it.  For example there's the fact that many Italian Syndicalists started or joined the Fascists; there's also the unusual case of Peronism, which seemed fascist but was supported by the Communists.  Consider that Hitler's Fascism and Lenin's and Stalin's Bolshevist-Communism were functionally identical.  It gets into where your loyalties lie, I think- community, Party, nation, etc.  I place mine with the species as a whole, personally; and I don't really trust anyone whose loyalties are smaller than that...

    'Heroic' Fantasy like Conan the Barbarian and Lord of the Rings, most of the fantasy genre really, has liberatory and tyrannical aspects (such as honor vs duty, community vs nationalism, individuality vs egoism); mostly we have to keep in mind that it's only possible for an individual to be a sole savior when supernatural forces are involved.  Which, in reality, they aren't.  So for us real people, we need to organize.

  •  And the gaming community also picks up on the (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    detroitmechworks, Matt Z

    "liberal bias" of RPGs, especially Bioware games (if, by "liberal bias", you mean diversity and inclusiveness).

    When Dragon Age 2 came out, there was some grumbling about the inclusion of gay romances. One post, dripping with white male privilege, on the Bioware forums got a lot of attention, since one of the game producers replied with a spirited and eloquent defense. The original post and reply are linked below. Well worth reading.

    http://social.bioware.com/...

    •  I didn't like Dragon age 2... (0+ / 0-)

      But not because of the gay romances...  (Personally I still think the Skye romance in Jade Empire is the most interesting SOLO romance... gotta love any RPG that accepts Poly as possible.)

      I didn't like it because the female characters were neatly divided into madonna/whore, the dungeons were the SAME dungeon with different entrances, EVERY woman in a position of power got either driven crazy or killed, and in general the plot was too linear.

      One of these days, I'm gonna learn that I'm only really good at convincing people when I'm being a wiseass. Reviewtopia.net

      by detroitmechworks on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 12:24:42 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I think it would be great if we could design (0+ / 0-)

    social programs and private enterprises the way the best RPGs are designed - achievement-oriented, progressive, and as exciting and adventurous as the participant wants them to be (i.e., a multitude of different challenge options).

    The thing about RPGs that makes them great is that effort is always rewarded, even if it's a tiny reward.  Fight the lowest-level baddie in the easiest possible environment, get a little bit of Exp points and you can level up slowly if you don't want to take big risks.  Reality doesn't work that way, but it can be made to work that way.  

    A process cannot be understood by stopping it. Understanding must move with the flow of the process, must join it and flow with it. --The First Law of Mentat

    by Troubadour on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 12:56:54 PM PST

    •  I felt they were conservative (0+ / 0-)

      Because once you get to a certain level of $$ or experience, that-all keeps building on itself. You don't actually pay any taxes or give back to the community once you've won the game or gotten good. Solve the game, and everyone else can fend. (Or am I reading stuff into this?)

      Games are often very cruel to level 1 characters, and I found out once I'd gotten very good I forgot how it was to struggle at the bottom.

      Of course I've been out of touch with modern games for a while, but I remember early games jumping from insanely cruel to insanely easy rather quickly.

      That said, I actually did make a liberal/conservative rating of some of my favorite early games. I wish I could find it.

      And yes, any game has to make society artificial and leave parts out. I just feel games tend to err by flipping between too hard/easy.

      •  Well, I'm referring to the ideal progressive game (0+ / 0-)

        that provides people with a continuous spectrum of optional challenges and the occasional unavoidable one to keep people on their toes.  I've played plenty of RPGs where it's very simple to get going in the early stages - you just have to stay close to whatever building or magic thingee revives your HP, and walk back and forth looking for low-level trouble.

        Obviously in a practical context, it wouldn't take the form of combat, but more like achievement-oriented quests and stuff.  Why the hell can't people get paid money the way games award experience points and treasure chests?  I know there's already a very limited type of thing like that with commissions and such, but that's usually disheartening and demotivating because of how hard it is, and how unrewarding compared to the effort involved.  There's no small-scale things you can do for that kind of compensation right now.  And there should be.

        There should be a rational step-ladder between one pay grade and the next, and not a precipitous cliff.

        A process cannot be understood by stopping it. Understanding must move with the flow of the process, must join it and flow with it. --The First Law of Mentat

        by Troubadour on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 02:24:17 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  That's true, those are the best sort (tldr) (0+ / 0-)

          First, yes, it's frustrating when I do something neat and don't get paid and I feel a bit guilty when I have a lazy day at work. And I don't think that figuring a way to budget better etc. is enough of a reward for -everyone-. I'm lucky it has been for me. And I remember the first time I got a ton of experience for completing a quest and thinking "But real life doesn't work that way."

          Problem with free-form RPGs is that the freedom can be overwhelming, and often people just like to pile up gold or experience or what have you.

          That was certainly the case with me early on. Then I realized there was more to games than the next experience level. Some of my favorite games, in fact, capped the maximum gold or experience you could use.

          I think there's very much a lesson to be learned with some games--how much gold/experience/power is enough? There's a point past which it doesn't matter.

          I really prefer looking at the old games, so this may be gibberish to you, but comparing Dragon Wars to Bard's Tale III is instructive--the 2nd had a great story too but could be broken with a trick where some guy who gave new parties who'd solved the first dungeon 1 1/2 levels would forget the party if you summoned a wolf--then dropped and summoned it. Yeah, you could get through naturally by improving your characters but it was a "punch in punch out" sort of game.

          DW only needed 14 levels maybe and encouraged exploration by finding special items that meant more than an extra level.

          Then again, for horrendously socialistic gaming in MMORPGs, I have found Kingdom of Loathing to be totally hippie-infested. The insanely rich players generally hold "anti-raffles" where a ticket is an item well below its market value. Then a random winner gets even more nice stuff. Longtime players still like to try for 4 billion meat (the game's currency) since that is the rollover point (2^32). But they also recognize that drop-in-the-bucket efforts can go a long way.

          The developers don't mandate any of this, so it is not strictly liberal, but it's interesting how the people there realize they need to do this sort of thing to keep new folks showing back up and keep the game going strong.

          Problem is, even in gaming most people settle for something more pedestrian like maybe a Facebook game show app where eventually they get lucky. There are many possibilities out there in gaming and life, and I think I agree with your basic point that the more-is-better or get-to-a-million philosophy doesn't make everyone optimally happy.

  •  Three Words: Final Fantasy VII (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    detroitmechworks

    If Square Enix ever gets around to re-releasing Final Fantasy VII with updated graphics, the Republicans are going to come down with a major league case of The Fear. When it first came out in 1997, people did not immediately understand how awesome and groundbreaking the game was, although it became obvious fairly quickly. Now that the game has been played and re-played for nearly fifteen years by two generations of gamers, and has attracted even more attention through all the side-story games and the film related to it, it is nothing less than a cultural touchstone for millions of people under the age of, say, 35 at least.

    For those who don't know, in Final Fantasy VII, you play as a depressed, disillusioned military veteran who joins a terrorist organization dedicated to overthrowing the monolithic corporation that controls just about everything in the country. This terrorist organization's specific grievances are that said corporation is keeping everybody under its thumb, often in driving poverty, while enriching itself by literally bleeding the planet dry and destroying the environment. It gets weirder and crazier the further you play the game, but all of what I have related is made clear within the first couple hours of gameplay.

    Needless to say, this is not the kind of game that Republican elites would like. A military veteran who joins up with an environmentalist terrorist organization opposed to corporate rule? With the wide release the game would get now, and the millions of people who would play it, the screams would be long and loud.

    Oh, and as a side note, the leader of this terrorist organization is a big, burly black man who vaguely resembles Mr. T with a Gatling gun for an arm.

    •  Don't Know If I'd Rebuy VII (0+ / 0-)

      I liked VII, I really did. I haven't played it in years--heck, I haven't played any JRPG for quite a while due to lack of time. And honestly, I'm not sure what updated graphics really would do. Sure, it's not as pretty as it could be now, but look at the other classic RPGs: NES games like FFI. SNES games like FFIV and FFVI, as well as Chrono Trigger and other great (if lesser-known) games like Terranigma. The Zeldas. FFVII was the only really good FF game on PSX, but Chrono Cross was great and I'd love to see more games with that style of mechanics. I've even got weirder games like Thousand Arms, which has probably the only dating sim ever embedded in a RPG. Well, maybe not, if you count Harvest Moon.

      To be honest, if it released under $40 I'd probably buy it on release day. I haven't bought any of the recently-released related games or watched the movie.

      •  Yeah, I think I know what you mean (0+ / 0-)

        While the graphics have not aged well, there is a certain timeless quality to the original... and I like to remember that when it first came out, and I watched a friend play it on his Playstation back in 1997, the graphics looked really, really awesome.

        The only possible thing a re-release could add would be better graphics and cut scenes, but that didn't go so well with the Chrono Trigger re-release.

        •  And skippable summon scenes (0+ / 0-)

          Seriously, I beat the game once without a guide, then got a guide in order to do/get everything. By the time you W-Summon and Mime Knights of the Round, the length of the six back-to-back summon scenes is enough time to make a quick sandwich.

          I hated FFVIII for a number of reasons, but that was definitely high on my list. Long, unskippable summon scenes that you had to actually be present for in order to repeatedly push a button to power up the attack. Seriously?

  •  Brilliant! Virtual liberals! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    detroitmechworks

    But we already have plenty of them…
    This is what ‘life’ has come down to

    Nudniks need not apply.

    by killermiller on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 01:51:42 PM PST

  •  FloridaSNDAd and I (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    detroitmechworks

    Met playing Vampire the Masquerade tabletop on Mirc. Though even there I tend to play a more liberal vampire than a darker one lol. He plays the darker ones sometimes, but never one aligned with Pentex (evil corporation). Now he plays Guild Wars online with some friends, I tend to avoid MMORG's in general, I get vertigo and feel dizzy and nauseous after a couple of hours. I stick with text versions, and Sims when I have a computer that will run it.

    Maybe now that my kids are older, once we move and are settled we can find some tabletop RPG friends and begin playing again on a regular basis.

    "Madness! Total and complete madness! This never would've happened if the humans hadn't started fighting one another!" Londo Mollari

    by FloridaSNMOM on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 03:42:00 PM PST

  •  Speaking of liberal bias in RPGs... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    detroitmechworks, LivingOxymoron

    In just a couple weeks Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning will be released and it is written by frequent Daily Kos poster RA Salvatore.  The demo is already availabele and I am about to start playing it now, early word is that it is supposed to be excellent.

    •  I played through the demo... (0+ / 0-)

      And I must say it looks very promising.  Just the demo alone is pretty huge, you will easily get a couple solid hours of gameplay out of it and that is not even close to enough time to see everything the demo has to offer.  When you look at the world map and see what a tiny section of land the demo covers in the context of the game as a whole however, it is clear this is going to be on the same scale as an Elder Scrolls game.  And yes, the liberal bias is apparant.  It is pretty gory in parts however, so it may not be for the squeemish.

  •  May I throw Minecraft out there for consideration? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mythatsme

    While not 'strictly' an RPG, it can be. And I feel it has many subversive, liberal ideals as well. We all know how Conservatives hate Rail. Also, there's a strong element of innovation and problem solving involved with Minecraft -- something Conservatives can't handle.

    "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" Voltaire.

    by JWK on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 07:10:11 PM PST

  •  And... just for the outlier (0+ / 0-)

    There's the favorite MMORPG among my friends: EVE Online.

    It is as purely libertarian as one can get.  The economic system is amazingly well modeled, and allows for nearly anything to happen, with some rather profound consequences.  But there are no "rules" per se.  "Theft" of in game resources is possible and occurs regularly, sometimes with real-world effects.  The last big scam was valued at over $45,000 of REAL money, and it was all technically perfectly legal.

    "If you don't stick to your values when tested, they're not values! They're hobbies" - Jon Stewart

    by LivingOxymoron on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 07:54:45 PM PST

  •  no wonder I'm such (0+ / 0-)

    a "corrupted" individual, it was all that ff5 I was playing, who knew?

    But DEFINITELY ff7

    SHINRA anyone? :D

    We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. George Orwell

    by Fracturedchaos on Sun Jan 22, 2012 at 08:27:14 PM PST

  •  In Megatraveller we have (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Orange County Liberal

    the "bad karma" rule.

    I always use it.

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