Skip to main content

When it comes to paying his 'fair share,' Mitt Romney has one opinion with relation to paying 'taxes' to the Mormon church and another when it comes to his country.

I came across an article on CNN last night explaining the 'tithe' that Romney pays (and all devout Mormons must pay) to the church and found something very interesting, but let's briefly go over what a 'tithe' is first in case anyone's not familiar with that term:

(A 'tithe' is defined as: "a voluntary contribution or tax payment, especially when it constitutes one tenth of somebody's income")

The interesting part about the Mormon tithe is this:

...all Mormons in good standing with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are required to give 10% of their salaries as a tithe...And there's never any variation on the 10%, whether you're on welfare or you're a millionaire.

Hmm...interesting! Did you get that part about everyone paying the same amount, regardless of their income level? There's no hiding money away in places like the Cayman islands or looking for loopholes like Romney does when it comes to paying his fair share of taxes for his country...no, he pays the same 'tax' as everyone else -- period.

But wait...that's not even the best part! Here's the real gem:

Not only does Romney not try to wriggle out of the tithe, squirrel money away, or try to oppose it, but he thinks he should pay even MORE than the required 10%!

According to the tax returns he just released:

Mitt Romney and his wife, Ann, gave even more to their church last year. Tax documents released Tuesday show they gave $2.6 million, more than 12% of the roughly $21 million they earned. The Romneys also gave $1.4 million last year in cash and stock to their family foundation, which heavily supports the LDS Church.

Wow! What a startling contrast to Romney's expressed views on how much income he should contribute to his country.

He's stated that he doesn't see anything wrong with how things currently stand and doesn't want to raise taxes on the rich so that they pay their fair share.

There's an old saying that goes something like this: Show me how you spend your money and I'll tell you what you value (another version is: I'll tell you how you are.)

Romney's tax returns tell us who he is. Loud and clear.

I didn't see anyone else pointing out this little contradiction so I thought I'd do so myself. ;)

(NOTE: It's not letting me link so I'm just going to post the URL):

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/...

EMAIL TO A FRIEND X
Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags

?

More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (15+ / 0-)

    Caminante, no hay camino. Son tus huellas el camino y nada mas...(Translation: Traveler, there is no path. Your footsteps make the path and nothing else.) --Antonio Machado

    by newyorknewyork on Wed Jan 25, 2012 at 08:47:50 AM PST

  •  well (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    newyorknewyork, rb608

    At least the LDS gets equality.  Maybe Mitt needs to spend more time at church, not just money.

    If you have more than you need but don't have empathy you must be a republican.

    by Cecile on Wed Jan 25, 2012 at 08:54:00 AM PST

  •  It's not really a contradiction to the crowd he's (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    phrogge prince, Cedwyn, rb608

    playing to though. They believe that giving to the government is "teh evil" and that people should give to churches or charities directly. Remember GHWB's "thousand points of light"? The gaps that Republicans have created in the safety net are supposed to be filled in by churches and community groups (though not government funded ones).

    "What profit a man, if he gain the world, but has to pay taxes on it?" Paul 8:36

    From the Gospel of St. Ron Paul in the Teachings and Misunderstandings of the Words of Adam Smith

    by ontheleftcoast on Wed Jan 25, 2012 at 08:54:13 AM PST

    •  I think it's definitely a contradiction (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      rb608, Sharoney

      He pays even MORE than he has to and that says a lot.

      It speaks volumes that tries to cheat his way out of contributing to the well-being of his fellow countrymen and women  but it happy to pay even MORE than what he owes to the church.

      Caminante, no hay camino. Son tus huellas el camino y nada mas...(Translation: Traveler, there is no path. Your footsteps make the path and nothing else.) --Antonio Machado

      by newyorknewyork on Wed Jan 25, 2012 at 09:00:08 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Doesn't it give him power in his church? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      newyorknewyork

      Wouldn't he be treated as a big deal at any church event he chose to attend.  Wouldn' he get a choice seat at the temple and have church official groveling at his feet whenever he passes through Salt Lake City?

      You don't get anything like that from paying taxes.

      I am here to represent the democratic wing of the Democratic Party. Roar louder!

      by Josiah Bartlett on Wed Jan 25, 2012 at 11:29:56 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  true, but that's not the point (0+ / 0-)

      The main thing to focus on here is that everyone is supposed to pay the same rate.. The fact he's more willing to give his money to his church rather than to his country is a side issue.

      I think this could have legs.

      Why is it ok for tithes to be the same rate regardless of income but not taxes?

      (er … anyone care to rewrite that to something catchier?)

      All things in the sky are pure to those who have no telescopes. – Charles Fort

      by subtropolis on Wed Jan 25, 2012 at 12:20:47 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  And that's not the point of my comment (0+ / 0-)

        They don't see religion as equal to government in any way, shape, or form. The rules that apply to church do not apply elsewhere. What's good for the goose is NOT good for the gander. And that is not inconsitent to them in the least. I grew up amongst these people, this is how they think. In fact, trying to equate government with church rankles them even more. These are the people who think "separation of church and state" means they can force 'under God' into the pledge because to not let them do it is oppressing their religious freedom.

        "What profit a man, if he gain the world, but has to pay taxes on it?" Paul 8:36

        From the Gospel of St. Ron Paul in the Teachings and Misunderstandings of the Words of Adam Smith

        by ontheleftcoast on Wed Jan 25, 2012 at 12:40:47 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  The problem is ... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Cedwyn, rb608, subtropolis, Catte Nappe

    a 10 or 12% Flat Tax is something they would support ... and it would be a nightmare.

    I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
    but I fear we will remain Democrats.

    by twigg on Wed Jan 25, 2012 at 08:59:33 AM PST

    •  Due respect, you're missing the point (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cany

      The point of the diary is that he's not opposed to everyone paying a fair share when it comes to the church but he is when it comes to his country.

      AND...he's even paying MORE than what he has to.

      That says to me that he knows in his heart what's the right thing to do. He just can't bring himself to do it for his fellow citizens.

      Caminante, no hay camino. Son tus huellas el camino y nada mas...(Translation: Traveler, there is no path. Your footsteps make the path and nothing else.) --Antonio Machado

      by newyorknewyork on Wed Jan 25, 2012 at 09:03:14 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  says he knows if you make more you should pay more (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        rb608

        The complete opposite of what he's saying on income taxes.

        Caminante, no hay camino. Son tus huellas el camino y nada mas...(Translation: Traveler, there is no path. Your footsteps make the path and nothing else.) --Antonio Machado

        by newyorknewyork on Wed Jan 25, 2012 at 09:04:34 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Sure, but the Church is (0+ / 0-)

          a private organisation ... It perfectly fits his philosophy (this week).

          If I were Romney, and hit with that point I would simply remark ...

          "Bring me a Bill, when I am President, with a 12% Income Tax rate for all, and I will sign it. In fact, wake me up in the middle of the night, and I'll sign it"

          I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
          but I fear we will remain Democrats.

          by twigg on Wed Jan 25, 2012 at 09:07:57 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  the percentage is not the focus here (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            cany

            It's the fact that he obviously believes that if you make more it's your duty to give more--NOT LESS.

            Caminante, no hay camino. Son tus huellas el camino y nada mas...(Translation: Traveler, there is no path. Your footsteps make the path and nothing else.) --Antonio Machado

            by newyorknewyork on Wed Jan 25, 2012 at 09:15:55 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  He will still get you (0+ / 0-)

              He would simply say that the way he chooses to spend his money is not something the Government should take a view on.

              I do understand the point ... I just think that it's probably not the most fruitful line of attack.

              Many folk would actually applaud his commitment to his Church.

              I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
              but I fear we will remain Democrats.

              by twigg on Wed Jan 25, 2012 at 09:38:47 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  I get that but some people will see it differently (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                twigg, cany

                Some will see it as someone who thinks one way when it comes to church and another when it comes to his country.

                Church before country? Not the greatest motto to have if you're running for Prez.

                Anyway--I'm not really suggesting it as a line of attack, but I do think it's something that people should point out. Like I said in the diary, it shows who he is very clearly--and that's someone whose out for himself and his own--not us.

                Caminante, no hay camino. Son tus huellas el camino y nada mas...(Translation: Traveler, there is no path. Your footsteps make the path and nothing else.) --Antonio Machado

                by newyorknewyork on Wed Jan 25, 2012 at 09:53:16 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

    •  agreed, it would be bad (0+ / 0-)

      But this tithing rate still goes against everything Republicans believe in when it comes to taxation.

      More hypocrisy, iow.

      All things in the sky are pure to those who have no telescopes. – Charles Fort

      by subtropolis on Wed Jan 25, 2012 at 12:22:52 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I understand your point, but... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Cedwyn, rb608

    ...I'm not sure that this particular bit of news is that damning to Romney.

    Consider that there are plenty of Evangelicals who think nothing of giving away their kids' college fund to Pat Robertson/Jimmy Swaggart/Oral Roberts/etc. but then bitch about being asked for a 0.1 millage increase for their local library (granted, they never use it, but...)

    •  Wow! Really? Can't believe no one sees (0+ / 0-)

      what I see here.

      To me, it's plain as day.

      It shows he understands that we're in this together...all the same stuff Obama said in the SOTU and if you make more, if anything, you should give more, not less.

      It shows a COMPLETE CONTRADICTION to what he's saying we should do for this country

      Obviously, he knows in his heart it's the right thing to do or he wouldn't voluntarily do it he just thinks the rest of us are heathens and don't deserve it--pretty big deal if you ask me, when he's running to become our president!

      Caminante, no hay camino. Son tus huellas el camino y nada mas...(Translation: Traveler, there is no path. Your footsteps make the path and nothing else.) --Antonio Machado

      by newyorknewyork on Wed Jan 25, 2012 at 09:14:08 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Donations to Churches (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rb608

    They are simply loopholes in the Tax Code that allow the amount of taxes to be payable to be reduced.

  •  well, when you're a leader of a religion (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cany

    There was a diary on this (sort of) earlier, and my comment there applies to this even more.

    Remember JFK and the slurs about listening to Rome?  In this case, it would be as if JFK had been the Archbishop of Boston at some point in his life when he ran. Yes, no religious test, but, really, these figures show there should be some doubt here.

    All it takes is security in your own civil rights to make you complacent.

    by Dave in Northridge on Wed Jan 25, 2012 at 09:29:45 AM PST

  •  tithes are a tax write off... (0+ / 0-)

    Something that a lot of wealthy people who are quick to point at their charitable giving as "proof" of their generosity don't tell you:  Giving an extra million here or there can change the amount the government gets.  It's possible (if you have a smart enough tax lawyer) to give away money, and still end the year with more money in your pocket than you would have had if you didn't donate the money.  

    If you are hovering right at the bottom of a tax bracket, a donation could drop you down into another tax bracket, and the amount you save more than makes up for the donation.  Here's a very simplistic illustration:  you make $51,000.  Your tax rate is 30%.  Therefore, you owe the government $15,300.  That leaves you with $35,700 left.   Your lawyer tells you however, if you give away $1001, he can squeeze you into the 25% tax bracket.  So, 51,000-1,001 = $49,999.  Take away 25% of that, and you are left with $37,499.25.  So, by "giving away" $1001, you wind up with an extra $1799.25 in your pocket.  

    This is very simple, and for illustration only.  To do this is real life is far more complicated, and requires a lot more strategy -- especially when you're talking big sums and a situation far more complicated than a traditional wage earner.  But this shows how the basic concept works.  

    So by giving extra to the church, Mittens might actually be taking home more money in the end.  That, and he's getting in the graces of the Church, which is a powerful political operator, as evidences by the Prop 9 thing in California.        

    •  exactly. He's cheating his way out of paying (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      RerumCognoscereCausas

      what he owes to his fellow countrymen---the ones he wants to represent.

      Would rather give more money to the church, than, God forbid--show he cared about his fellow citizens and pay his fair share there.

      But what I found most interesting is...he doesn't have any qualms about the church *requiring people to pay that tax. If people want to to do it, that's one thing...

      Caminante, no hay camino. Son tus huellas el camino y nada mas...(Translation: Traveler, there is no path. Your footsteps make the path and nothing else.) --Antonio Machado

      by newyorknewyork on Wed Jan 25, 2012 at 09:41:58 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Nor would it appear that he has a problem... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        newyorknewyork

        ...with welfare.  The LDS church has a massive internal welfare system.  Massive.  Just ask yourself if you've ever met a homeless Mormon.  

        I knew a fellow once that owned a shop in a mall, along with another guy.  They owned the shop 50/50.  One day, this guy's business partner emptied the business bank account and skipped town to run off with his 18 year old mistress to South America or something.   The guy I knew was left high-and-dry.  He lost the business, naturally, when the vendors started demanding payment on accounts and the mall management came asking for the rent.   The car got repo'd and they were about to lose the house when LDS welfare kicked in.  The guy I knew was Mormon.  Within hours, the arrears on the house payment were paid, and the bank backed off.  The next day, they got a nice used car from the church, which came from a Mormon-owned dealership.  The church also paid for food for the family, utilities and other expenses until they got back on their feet.  They were offered free counseling.  The guy was also put in touch with other members of the congregation who were looking for employees, and eventually got a job.  

        Sounds pretty damn socialist to me.   ;)  

        •  yeah, and that's what gets me! (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          RerumCognoscereCausas

          Why is it OK if the church does it but not anyone else in society?

          Are you only supposed to care about others in church?

          Caminante, no hay camino. Son tus huellas el camino y nada mas...(Translation: Traveler, there is no path. Your footsteps make the path and nothing else.) --Antonio Machado

          by newyorknewyork on Wed Jan 25, 2012 at 12:02:23 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Tribalism and cultural hegemony. (0+ / 0-)

            People don't mind socializing services like that as long as the recipients of the service are exactly like them.  But, when the service is secular and open to anyone who needs it, then it's a problem.  

            When people are helping someone just like themselves, in a situation they understand, then it's willing charity.   When that sort of charity extends to people they don't know, whose situation they have no understanding of, and whom they may even harbor veiled or explicit animus towards, then it is perceived as someone stealing from them and often justifies and strengthens the preexisting dislike.

            The other issue tied to that is hegemony -- being able to force your will on others.  As much as many conservatives these days complain about the powers that Child Welfare departments have (in a perceived emergency many can take your kid now and sort it out in court later, for instance) the thing they don't remember is that the genesis of those powers came out of the conservative south in the early 20th century.  There, they were used as a mechanism to ensure that certain people (not only African Americans, but also people like single mothers) would behave in a certain way.  In some rather egregious examples, single mothers would have their children taken for something as simple having a man visit her house.  In one extreme example, the man visiting was the woman's own brother from out of town who was just visiting!  

            There again, people don't mind welfare if it is being used as a mechanism to control the recipient -- to tell them what they should be doing, when, with whom, and why.  As long as the services rendered are being rendered in the way the community sees fit, not necessarily in the way that is most beneficial to the person.  

            This is why I'm very peculiar about the charities I donate to.  I will only donate to secular charities.  A former co-worker of mine was training to be a relief pilot.  He was training to fly planes full of food and medicine into remote areas in Africa and deliver it.   I admired that he was giving up his job to do that.  However, I could not support his organization financially because along with the food and medicine they were delivering, they were also proselytizing.    

  •  Wow. How's this for "all in the family..." (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    newyorknewyork
    The Romneys also gave $1.4 million last year in cash and stock to their family foundation
    Damn, that's generous! Nice to know exactly where your donations ended up.  And if they really miss it, they can still visit it on the weekends...
    Sure wish I had a family foundation, instead of the leaky one I gotta have fixed.
  •  What this may well indicate (0+ / 0-)

    is that the extra amount above the prescribed tithe may be toward the California Prop 8 referendum.  It's well known that the Mormons were largely financing the challenge and received some very large donations from a handful of donors.  If the 10% is a hard and fast amount for all, then anything above that on Rmoney's part was very likely targeted at offsetting the LDS expenses.  IOW, he wrote off a political donation as a tax deduction by laundering it through the church.

    You can't spell CRAZY without R-AZ.

    by rb608 on Wed Jan 25, 2012 at 10:15:28 AM PST

  •  only care for others while in church??? (0+ / 0-)

    The commenter above who talked about the churches welfare-like system got me thinking...

    Do they think you're only supposed to care about others while in church?

    The rest of the time it's everyman for himself?

    Caminante, no hay camino. Son tus huellas el camino y nada mas...(Translation: Traveler, there is no path. Your footsteps make the path and nothing else.) --Antonio Machado

    by newyorknewyork on Wed Jan 25, 2012 at 12:05:16 PM PST

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site