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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (9+ / 0-)

    Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance.

    by Horace Boothroyd III on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 09:31:13 AM PST

  •  Not Acutally an Eviction - Lets Hope It Goes Well (4+ / 0-)

    Since October, in violation of pre-existing rules governing camping on federal parklands, Occupy-DC has been allowed to maintain 2 encampments on federal park lands in D.C. - one at Freedom Plaza and the other at McPherson Square. As the no-camping rules were established before the "occupation", the Park Service has actually been "negligent" in it's assigned duty.

    However, by following the spirit, instead of the letter, of the law, the D.C. Park Service has averted a repeat of the catastrophes of N.Y.C. and Oakland. Now, in response to pressure from The Republican chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, Rep. Darrell Issa of California, the Park Service will begin enforcing the no-camping rules.

    BUT this is not an eviction as round-the-clock vigils will still be allowed at both sites. Even tents will be permitted as long as they do not contain personal and sleeping items.

    More than fair warning has been issued by the Park Service to give "campers" ample time to de-camp. I hope that cool heads on both sides of "the rules" prevail and that the message of the Occupy movement will continue to change the narrative from "debt-and deficit" to "income inequality".

    I am not now, nor have I ever been, a member of the Republican Party.

    by OnlyWords on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 10:07:23 AM PST

    •  It's not just Issa, it's the locals (4+ / 0-)

      I work right by it.  People are sick of it and want it gone.  The place is trashed, local businesses have been hurt.  And what was once an interesting thing and often supported has become a problem and a pain in the ass.  The locals are furious there has been no action on this.  Cussing at police to do their job.  It's getting ugly and people are starting to wonder if they are going to have to take steps to remove them if the cops won't.

      This has been building for some time.

      Issa can go get bent.  DC wants them gone, that's a core problem.  Issa is just crying on top of it.

      I know the caterers we used to use for work have realized they don't get anything from us, nor do the places we dined in at because we have to stay out of the area for various business deals.  Plus trashing the place right after the golden triangle, sucks for the tax payers.

      Hasn't hurt any lobbyists (again, stupid area for that, they are all over the place) but sure has screwed over less well off locals.

      "Foolproof systems don't take into account the ingenuity of fools."

      by overclocking on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 10:24:19 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Thanks for this Inside-Info, OC, It Didn't Come Up (0+ / 0-)

        in my searching.

        And yea,  Issa can def get bent. All outta shape. Da soona, da betta...

        I am not now, nor have I ever been, a member of the Republican Party.

        by OnlyWords on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 10:31:09 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  It's not really inside, think of it this way (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          rcnewton

          How long do you think areas like this sort of stuff going on?

          This is the sort of thing that is nice and novel when it first starts but the longer things go on the less so it is.  Think of it as wearing out your welcome.

          I walk by there all the time since it's smack next to my work.  People are just frustrated with it now.

          "Foolproof systems don't take into account the ingenuity of fools."

          by overclocking on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 10:36:45 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Is this your (5+ / 0-)

            opinion or has there been any kind of polling or consensus?

            Just out of curiosity, do you support the OWS movement?

            •  Also (3+ / 0-)

              I can definitely understand how it might be an inconvenience.  That park is pretty big though.  I'm surprised that hit has caused a big inconvenience for people who work in the area.  Compared to where I live, everything is big and spread out in DC.

            •  No this commenter wants those DFH's (0+ / 0-)

              to go home take a bath and get a job because they are blighting their view.

              Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance.

              by Horace Boothroyd III on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 11:28:07 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  From Working here and having been through it (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              rcnewton

              Where I work you have to deal with a lot of protests, that's just the nature of DC.  You kinda get used to it.  For the most part it's kinda accepted as part of the deal.

              OWS was a curiosity because of what had been on the news.  And I work with a bunch of liberals in global health and maternal/infant mortality.  About as bleeding heart and left as you can get.

              It gradually went from "oh, cool, we have one too that's great" to "why the hell are they still here"... and then "oh crap the park is trashed, they are screwing up traffic, there are more bums up here, we can't take clients for work out in the area, this is a mess, won't somebody clean this up".

              There isn't really official polling on it.  The TV doesn't walk by and ask all the locals "what do you think of OWS".  But I can say a bunch of people I work with have gone from fully supporting OWS to regarding them as horrible for property values and as much of a pest as the bums or the crazy people that camp out by Farragut with impeach Obama signs.

              And the level of annoyance with it will vary depending on just what was impacted that day.

              As for the movement, hard to say, what part of the movement honestly.  I support unions, I support regulation of the banks, I want to see the financial criminals put on trial, and I support income equality.  In as much as they've brought attention to that, sure, I do.  On the other hand the fact that (everytime I've been by) it's mostly the white college educated professional class who helped the 1% screw over everybody beneath them for decades and is now only freaking out once their jobs were on the line, I find the entire thing at tad self centered and a bit arrogant.  But that's party my underlying mistrust of groups that only sound the panic button once they are in charge.

              And the fact that student loans and other upper middle class rather than manufacturing and construction and other "lower working class" items seem far higher on the agenda from what I've seen makes me more feel that this is the top 25% leading everybody else along with them and will abandon them as soon as possible making it everybody vs the top 26% and we'll be right back to Clinton and Reagan.

              I'd have a higher opinion of it if really was an outcry of the 99% and not just the top of the 99% trying to drag the bottom of it along to the fight now that they finally got screwed over to.  Or at least some evidence that the bottom part was the main priority.  But from everything I've seen, that's not the case.

              So... my views are mixed.

              "Foolproof systems don't take into account the ingenuity of fools."

              by overclocking on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 11:55:20 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  The park does not look trashed to me. (0+ / 0-)

                Traffic was moving fine around the park.

                There are more "bums" around, though, because it's a place they can get a free meal and be spoken to civilly.

                Being ignored is the difference between being a one percenter and an American.--sweeper

                by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 03:14:53 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  Of course, if having a bunch of tents (0+ / 0-)

                with people living in them counts as "trashed" in your book, any Occupation would be definition be a "trashing" of the local environment.

                Being ignored is the difference between being a one percenter and an American.--sweeper

                by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 03:15:33 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

            •  I don't know if anyone polled DC residents and (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              rcnewton

              nearby buisnesses, specifically restaurants, but I think it's fair to assume that no one is happy about the the fact that rat populations have exploded at both encampments.

              Ds see human suffering and wonder what they can do to relieve it. Rs see human suffering and wonder how they can profit from it.

              by JTinDC on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 12:48:13 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  Agreed. But By "Inside", I Meant "On-The-Scene" (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            rcnewton

            I thought that Occupy had succeeded in changing the narrative by last Nov, and should move on to more productive activities to further the cause - like getting real progressives elected to office instead of demanding that the current crop institute progressive legislation.

            Your first-hand accounts of how the "occupation" has had a negative effect on the local communities is not being adequately portrayed in "das media". I considered it true inside-the-beltway coverage, and thank-you again for sharing it with those such as myself who are too physically far away to see it for ourselves.

            I am not now, nor have I ever been, a member of the Republican Party.

            by OnlyWords on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 10:59:23 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

      •  Links? nt (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cotterperson, An Affirming Flame

        Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance.

        by Horace Boothroyd III on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 10:39:47 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  I wouldn't say "DC wants them gone." (3+ / 0-)

        Most of the folks I know in the District consider the Occupy camps an odd little curiosity, until they do something like block traffic at rush hour (at which point they're considered a pretty substantial annoyance).

        Maybe the folks who work right near there aren't big fans of theirs, but where I work, which is about 6 blocks away from it, the general consensus seems to be a pretty resounding "meh."

        Among my friends (we all live in DC), there's more of a sense of vague support, but not to the point where we go camp with them or where we'll be deeply outraged if they have to start doing "24-hour vigils" rather than camping (which basically means they've got to find somewhere else to sleep). It hasn't really shown up at all—for good or ill—on our neighborhood listserv.

        My church has taken a few actions in support of their cause, and will likely be a place for some of them to sleep if/when they have to do a "24-hour vigil" rather than camp—which is also not really an indication that we "want them gone."

        In other words, while the people who work very close to them may not be big fans, and while they certainly aren't getting a groundswell of massive support and camaraderie from the regular folks of DC, I'm not really seeing what you're saying—that as a whole "DC wants them gone"—in the circles I travel in.

        "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

        by JamesGG on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 11:06:05 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  OL does work near them and is following (0+ / 0-)

          the script to make claims they have yet to link to.

          Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance.

          by Horace Boothroyd III on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 11:29:35 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Yeah, I would say DC in general (0+ / 0-)

          has protest fatigue as a constant condition.  "Meh" is their response to just about every protest.  It's like being a Florida kid and going to Disney World or the beach.  The out-of-towner kid goes "Oh Boy Oh Boy Oh Boy!" and the Florida kid goes "Yeah. It's OK, I guess."

          Being ignored is the difference between being a one percenter and an American.--sweeper

          by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 03:17:23 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  As someone who also works near McPherson (4+ / 0-)

        Square, I think you're full of shit.

        I see tons of support for the occupation to continue and rage against anyone who would tear it down.

        Note how our personal, anecdotal experiences are totally opposite.  That's why you need to be careful about generalizing your own experiences and opinion: they aren't necessarily definitive of the actual situation.  I don't doubt a good number of people feel the way you report.  But a good number of people certainly feel the way I report.

        Don't make blanket assertions like that to people who aren't here to judge for themselves.  It's not cool.

        The politics of direct action is based, to a certain degree, on a faith that freedom is contagious. - David Graeber

        by An Affirming Flame on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 11:08:23 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, this. (3+ / 0-)

          As I indicated above, there's a pretty wide variety of views within DC on the Occupy camps, and most of the people I know are vaguely supportive until they do something stupid like block traffic during rush hour.

          It's a pretty hasty generalization for overclocking to extrapolate that "DC wants Occupy gone" simply from what they're hearing from their own network of people, just as it would be for me to say "DC is vaguely supportive" based on the people within my network.

          (I do think it's safe to say that most of the affected DCite commuters are pissed when the Occupiers block traffic during rush hour, though :-) )

          "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

          by JamesGG on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 11:18:55 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Thanks, Flame. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          An Affirming Flame

          It's nice to hear that.

          I have heard mostly responses like JamesGG's.

          But I don't work near there.

          Being ignored is the difference between being a one percenter and an American.--sweeper

          by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 03:18:22 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  I work 2 blocks from McPherson Square, (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SouthernLiberalinMD

        and the occupation hasn't bothered me.

        The influence of the [executive] has increased, is increasing, and ought to be diminished.

        by lysias on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 01:27:01 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  I was down there today. It didn't look trashed (0+ / 0-)

        to me. A lot of tents.  A lot of people.

        Being ignored is the difference between being a one percenter and an American.--sweeper

        by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 03:12:16 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  there is some anger on the ground, as (0+ / 0-)

      an Occupier was tased after being handcuffed and put on the ground a couple days ago--also another Occupier was tased while being held from both sides by two officers.

      So people are somewhat angry at the Park Service at the moment.

      Being ignored is the difference between being a one percenter and an American.--sweeper

      by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 03:11:11 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Does anybody else see the irony of (3+ / 0-)

    Darrell Issa calling for the current eviction of Americans freedom of speech......

    This politician is the richest politician in the USA or a member of 1% of the 1% calling for no more freedom of speech......

    The goal is not to bring your adversaries to their knees but to their senses. -- Mahatma Gandhi

    by Mindmover on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 10:18:37 AM PST

  •  Thanks for the livestream. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Horace Boothroyd III

    The National Park Service as scheduled to evict them at noon today, Eastern, right? Does that mean it was supposed to have started a couple of hours ago, or am I missing something.

    Thanks for the livestream.

    Recent AFP story here for background.

    "Let each unique song be sung and the spell of differentiation be broken" - Winter Rabbit

    by cotterperson on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 11:10:48 AM PST

    •  No sleeping is the (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cotterperson

      rule apparently.

      Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance.

      by Horace Boothroyd III on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 11:30:28 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's a rule that was overlooked (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        rcnewton

        for the local homeless who I have no doubt will be happy to get the park back when the occupiers eventually leave.

        That has bothered me from day one, that a place local homeless folks considered, for all intents and purposes, to be "home" had their space completely taken over by hundreds of strangers. I feel bad for them.

        Ds see human suffering and wonder what they can do to relieve it. Rs see human suffering and wonder how they can profit from it.

        by JTinDC on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 12:59:17 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  My understanding (from a friend who does (0+ / 0-)

          charity work for the homeless) is that the homeless welcomed the Occupy people.

          The influence of the [executive] has increased, is increasing, and ought to be diminished.

          by lysias on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 01:29:10 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Oh, I'm sure some of them did. But having worked (0+ / 0-)

            with DC area homeless, and knowing first hand of the mental illnesses some of these folks have that make socialization challenging at best, there are homeless folks who found the situation overwhelming and frightening.

            Ds see human suffering and wonder what they can do to relieve it. Rs see human suffering and wonder how they can profit from it.

            by JTinDC on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 02:06:04 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Food and people who would speak to them decently. (0+ / 0-)

            Being ignored is the difference between being a one percenter and an American.--sweeper

            by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 03:20:10 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

  •  I was there till 3 pm (0+ / 0-)

    The Park Service was nowhere in sight--too much media there for their liking, I think.

    Word is they'll be by between 7 and 8.  I am recovering from a month's-long illness and am not going back tonight. I wish I'd rested all day and gone in at night--should have known the PTB wouldn't act in daylight.

    Being ignored is the difference between being a one percenter and an American.--sweeper

    by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Jan 30, 2012 at 03:09:39 PM PST

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