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I like this.

You may remember Mitt Romney's remarks last year that we need to foreclose and foreclose and let the market hit bottom:

As for what to do for the housing industry specifically, and are there things that you can do to encourage housing? One is don’t try and stop the foreclosure process. Let it run its course and hit the bottom, allow investors to buy homes, put renters in them, fix the homes up and let it turn around and come back up. The Obama administration has slow-walked the foreclosure processes that have long existed and as a result we still have a foreclosure overhang.

Think Progress, Oct 18, 2011,  Romney Tells State With Country’s Highest Foreclosure Rate ‘Don’t Try And Stop The Foreclosure Process’

Today, President Obama responded on behalf of the 99% in what I think will be the first of many contrasts:

"It is wrong for anyone to suggest that the only option for struggling, responsible homeowners is to sit and wait for the housing market to hit rock bottom. I refuse to accept that and so do the American people."

Time, The Page

And the President is trying to do something about it:

President Obama on Wednesday rolled out new proposals aimed at helping troubled homeowners, including a plan that would allow more borrowers to take advantage of record-low interest rates and lower their monthly mortgage payments.

Up to 3.5 million people who do not currently have federally backed loans might be eligible for the program, administration officials said. Another 11 million people who currently hold government-backed loans from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac also could potentially benefit.

snip

A central piece of the president’s plan would allow qualified homeowners to refinance their mortgages at current historically low interest rates. Unlike earlier proposals, the new refinance measure will cover not only home loans guaranteed by federal mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac but also those owned by private investors, according to senior administration officials.

The cost of undertaking those refinancings, Obama said last week, would be paid for by a fee on large financial firms to ensure “it won’t add to the deficit and will give those banks that were rescued by the taxpayers a chance to repay a deficit of trust.” The program’s estimated price tag is between $5 billion and $10 billion.

“While the government cannot fix the housing market on its own, the President believes that responsible homeowners should not have to sit and wait for the market to hit bottom to get relief when there are measures at hand that can make a meaningful difference,” a White House statement said Wednesday, “including allowing these homeowners to save thousands of dollars by refinancing at today’s low interest rates.”

WaPo

This may not be a panecea; it may not help everyone.  But it will help some, and, to me, that's good.  Of course, the Republicans will try to prevent it.  

There will be a clear contrast in the 2012 election.  Mitt Romney is the .0001%  The President represents the people.

Update I: More details from Meteor Blades excellent front page diary:

http://www.dailykos.com/...

• The Department of Justice is establishing a working group of at least 55 DOJ attorneys, analysts, agents and investigators from around the country who will join existing state and federal resources investigating similar misconduct under those authorities.

snip

• A refinancing plan will help "responsible borrowers" save an average of $3,000 per year.

snip

• The Homeowner Bill of Rights will include: access to a simple mortgage disclosure form, so borrowers can better understand the loans they are seeking; full disclosure of fees and penalties; guidelines to prevent conflicts of interest; support to keep responsible families in their homes and out of foreclosure; and protection against inappropriate foreclosure, including right of appeal.

Provide a full year of mortgage-payment forbearance for borrowers looking for work.

• $15 billion in federal funds to put construction workers on the job rehabilitating and refurbishing hundreds of thousands of vacant and foreclosed homes and businesses.

Ckeck out MB's diary for more details and links.  This will help some folks.  

Originally posted to TomP on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 08:42 AM PST.

Also republished by I Vote for Democrats.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (127+ / 0-)

    I'm from the Elizabeth Warren and Darcy Burner Wing of the Democratic Party!

    by TomP on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 08:42:37 AM PST

  •  The GOP seems to regard it as (22+ / 0-)

    their vocation to block anything that might actually help people -- meaning real "meat" people, Mitt, not corporations.

    Ultimately, the only thing that matters with respect to preserving choice is who will be nominating the next Supreme Court Justices.

    by Its the Supreme Court Stupid on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 08:46:44 AM PST

  •  Don't underestimate the appeal of Romney's view (10+ / 0-)

    That's all I'll say..

    But nobody's buying flowers from the flower lady.

    by Rich in PA on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 08:47:21 AM PST

  •  President Obama is better on housing (9+ / 0-)

    than Romney, in part because it would near impossible not to be. But housing has been on of the President's major failures. Does this new proposal amount to a course correction? I don't think so unfortunately. Here's D-Day, my go-to source on foreclosure issues.

    I do want to stress that this is an economic policy and not a housing policy. You have to have been current for six months on your payments to qualify, with no more than one delinquency in the previous six months. It’s an effort to get lower interest rates to the majority of the housing market, with the idea that the money they don’t spend on mortgage payments can get cycled into the economy. I think that’s a decent enough idea from an economic standpoint, though there would be losses for bondholders that would partially offset the gains from homeowners (I’d say the gains outweigh the losses from a multiplier standpoint). It will allow for more deleveraging of households. But it won’t save anybody’s home, and I’d argue that’s the bigger crisis.

    The other point is that this wouldn’t help all that many homeowners. The real benefit would be to refi everyone in an almost mandatory fashion. Most current borrowers can already refi into new loans. By opening this up to current borrowers who don’t already qualify, you’re talking about maybe 3 million refis. And that’s eligibility, it doesn’t mean all 3 million will actually refi. And that could be less, if Congress puts a ceiling – say 140% – on how underwater borrowers can be and still qualify.


    •  True, it helps some but (8+ / 0-)

      many foreclosures will happen anyway.

      This has not been the adminstration's most successful areaa, to say the least.  

      I'm from the Elizabeth Warren and Darcy Burner Wing of the Democratic Party!

      by TomP on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 08:54:10 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well it seems to be way to free up (6+ / 0-)

        people's money to be spent on things other than mortgages, and that is a very good thing. But the foreclosure crisis has long been something of its own thing, a huge drag on the economy, and this gets at that only tangentially.

        •  The political will has not been there (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          elwior, mahakali overdrive

          to really do something.  We are seeing a big change from home ownership to renting, and some property recently was sold by Fannie and Freddie to private equity to be transformed into rental property.

          For a while, the 1% and right wing argued that workers really were capitalists and should identify with the right because (1) they owned stocks (401 K or otherwise) and (2) home ownership.  Both were really flawed, because many folks still sold their labor and theior stock ownership was minimal.  Now more will rent.  

          It's unfortunate because some will suffer, but it may have the unintended consequence of creating a deeper class conscionsness.  Time will tell.

          In some ways, Obama is a softer, gentler Romney on this, unwilling or unable to make a real difference in the foreclosures and property value "correction," the resulting foreclosures because of the bubble and unemployment, offering help at the margins.  

          An improved economy will help some.  This iwll help some.  But for many, foreclosures will continue.

          I'm from the Elizabeth Warren and Darcy Burner Wing of the Democratic Party!

          by TomP on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 09:03:19 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  The political will has always been there. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            mightymouse

            Hence, #Occupy.

            But Obama's ideology is simply too focused on "deserve" and how much better rich people are than people who work for a living.

            The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

            "It takes balls to execute an innocent man." -- anonymous GOP focus group member on Rick Perry

            by Punditus Maximus on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 09:36:13 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  We are defining "political will" (10+ / 0-)

              differently.

              I do not share your reading of Obama.  In addition, while I think the public overall supports a general critique of economic inequality, it does not follow that it supports all of Occupy's tactics or policy choices.  

              People sometimes conflate a demonstration with masss support.   For example, 200 people voted in Oakland to have a global general strike on May 1.  I don't see a mass movement yet.  I see many people who are sacrificing themselves to make change, but m,any currents in the movement.  It did well overall to put economic inequality back on the agenda (and Obaam's more populist tone and Dems more populist tione amplified that), but I am less optimistic than you appear to be regaridng teh strength of Occupy.

              Time will tell.
               

              I'm from the Elizabeth Warren and Darcy Burner Wing of the Democratic Party!

              by TomP on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 09:48:07 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  #Occupy (0+ / 0-)

                shut down the Oakland ports, as well as most of the ports up and down the coast for a day.  You and I have different definitions of "mass movement," I think.

                The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

                "It takes balls to execute an innocent man." -- anonymous GOP focus group member on Rick Perry

                by Punditus Maximus on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 10:01:31 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Yes, we do. (10+ / 0-)

                  That is not enough.  Disruption for one day does not create real change.  

                  The Vietnam War demonstrations would get 500,000 folks in some places, at times, and tens of thousands in various cities.  It broke out of the left and eventually got moderates, Republicans, a true mass movement approaching a majority or significant number.

                  I don't see that yet from Occupy.  Shutting down a port is not a mass movement.  It's a demonstration for one day.  

                  What changed?  

                  I think Occupy, especially in NYC more than anywhere, helped change the conversation.  That was good.

                  But I do not see a mass movement yet.
                  And dispruption or street battles really do not create one.  Oakland likely will create a backlash.

                     

                  I'm from the Elizabeth Warren and Darcy Burner Wing of the Democratic Party!

                  by TomP on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 10:11:34 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  i see a mass movement (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    TomP, elwior

                    but certainly not on the scale of others.

                    this spring will be the tell.

                    so we only have a few weeks before we see how this might burgeon.

                    however, oakland is a special case given its history.

                    i don't see oakland as being all that important.  there are plenty of other sites where occupy could break out into something bigger.

                    Donate to Occupy Wall Street here: http://nycga.cc/donate/

                    by BlueDragon on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 10:53:26 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

            •  What? (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              TomP, mahakali overdrive

              "We the People of the United States...." -U.S. Constitution

              by elwior on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 11:47:22 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  Part of the reason for foreclosures (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            TomP, mahakali overdrive

            is the lousy economy.

            If it took both paychecks to pay the bills, and one person loses their job and can't find another that pays anywhere near what they made, something has to give.

            They might be excellent money managers, not have any real debt other than their mortgage and maybe a car payment, but if your income drops by half or more, what can you do?

            That's the reality for many people. They didn't do anything wrong. The vast, vast majority of people who are behind or in foreclosure did NOTHING wrong. They did everything they were supposed to do. And more, in many cases.

      •  Nobody Has Been Able To Explain This To Me (13+ / 0-)

        As I see the situation banks gave out loans like candy. With interest rates that would balloon out of control to people that didn't understand what they were getting into.

        They then packaged these things up and sold them as investments. The economy went into the shitter and people couldn't afford to make payments on a home that was worth a lot less than it was bought for.

        The banks cried and we gave them trillions.

        Why didn't we give he money directly to the homeowners so they could stay in their homes and continue to make payments?

        Isn't that the win/win situation. Banks would still get their money and people would get to stay in their homes.

        It just seems like the "solution" here isn't that complex to understand.

        When opportunity calls pick up the phone and give it directions to your house.

        by webranding on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 09:00:09 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  That was possible in 2008, although (11+ / 0-)

          envy among those who were not underwater may have made politically impossible, even if there had been political will.

          Many people would resent their tax money going to pay off their neighbor's house while they had to still pay their own.  

          I'm from the Elizabeth Warren and Darcy Burner Wing of the Democratic Party!

          by TomP on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 09:05:01 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  but it was and is a set up (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Imhotepsings, elwior, TomP, mmacdDE

            as most of the people underwater are there because of the general collapse, not because of something they did wrong.

            the bailout was enough to pay off EVERY mortgage in the USA (Naomi Klein was saying this in 2009).

            Can you imagine the recovery we would have had if everyone's mortgage were paid?

            That is the kind of radical solution I am always looking for.  One that actually does something which makes sense.

            But we don't allow this kind of thinking.  We would rather keep the 99% in slavery out of our ideological biases.

            Donate to Occupy Wall Street here: http://nycga.cc/donate/

            by BlueDragon on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 10:32:20 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  Direct expense v. loan (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          TomP, Deep Texan, virginislandsguy, VClib

          The bailout was largely in the form of loans, while paying homeowners would've been direct expense.  That made it politically more palatable, and as an economic matter we were probably able to use a bigger bazooka to use Paulson's terminology since loans can be leveraged.

          That's the argument, anyways.

        •  You are completely correct. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mightymouse

          So the answer is:

          Obama didn't want to.

          The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

          "It takes balls to execute an innocent man." -- anonymous GOP focus group member on Rick Perry

          by Punditus Maximus on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 09:36:36 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Really, Obama determined the (23+ / 0-)

            TARP completely in October 2008 before he was president?  

            In the end, your constant attacks on Obama undermine the few policy critiques you articulate.  

            Obama is not a socialist and is not overturning world capitalism.   If you thought so, you really lack political consciousness.

            I keep seeing you all over this diary and all you do is attack Obama.  Do you have any politcal program greater than "Barack Obama did not overturn world capitalism"?

            I also will bet you that Occupy fails to overturn world capitalism.  Unfortunatley, it's a very resiliant system.

            But people have ot live under it and I am proud to support Barack Obama, even though he is a moderate, reform capitalist.  In addiiton, his election has helped raise the conscionsess of people of color, undermining the "oppressor in their head," and that is kep to long term change.

            There is so much goo din the presidency of Barack Obama you fail to see.  Yes, he is not an anti-capitalist.  Yes, there are real flaws in policy.

            But he is the most left since LBJ.  Looking at a world historical perspective, Obama helps create a more humane capitalism and moves us forward in small , small steps, toward an evolutionary socialist outcome (se Bernsetin, even Kaytsky's critique of Lenin)

            If you seek world revolution, you will be dispappointed.    

            I'm from the Elizabeth Warren and Darcy Burner Wing of the Democratic Party!

            by TomP on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 10:03:23 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  You're quite correct (0+ / 0-)

              that Obama is the farthest left President since LBJ.  Unfortunately, that still puts him to Nixon's right.

              I'm really tired of Obama supporters' red-baiting.  What's next, HUAC?

              The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

              "It takes balls to execute an innocent man." -- anonymous GOP focus group member on Rick Perry

              by Punditus Maximus on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 10:25:09 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Not red baiting. (8+ / 0-)

                Nice strawman.  I bet I am more "red" than you.  So you can't hide behind that strawman.  

                As for "to Nixon's right" I protested against Nixon. I disagree that Obama is to Nixon's right.

                We see things very differently.

                I'm from the Elizabeth Warren and Darcy Burner Wing of the Democratic Party!

                by TomP on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 10:58:58 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  Right of Nixon (4+ / 0-)

                This gets trotted out all the time. It's total fucking bullshit and shows a depraved indifference to historical accuracy. You obviously were not politically conscious during the Nixon years.

              •  Nixon did not act as a conservative (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Dvalkure

                by today's standards.  Talking about people being to the right or left of Nixon is not very useful.

                Consider the following during the Nixon administration which most would associate far more with the political left than the right:

                 - Clean Water Act
                 - Clean Air Act
                 - Established the EPA
                 - Established Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA)
                 - National Environmental Policy Act
                 - Opened Diplomacy with China
                 - SALT I Treaty to limit Nuclear Weapons
                 - ABM Treaty to reduce Nuclear Weapons
                 - Dropped the gold standard.
                 - Wage and price controls put in place
                 - First Affirmative Action Program - Philadelphia Plan in 1970
                 - Proposed a health care program to provide insurance for low-income families, and require that all employees be provided with health care
                 —Endorsed the Equal Rights Amendment after it passed both houses of Congress in 1972.

                Based upon what happened during administrations, it would be difficult to make  the cases that Carter and Clinton were even to the left of Nixon.

                The most important way to protect the environment is not to have more than one child.

                by nextstep on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 11:50:33 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  You gotta keep in mind (0+ / 0-)

                  Nixon's legendarily closed shop and hostility to oversight.  Both Carter and Clinton were way better than Obama has been on those issues.  Obama's War on Whistleblowers has been kind of terrifying.

                  The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

                  "It takes balls to execute an innocent man." -- anonymous GOP focus group member on Rick Perry

                  by Punditus Maximus on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 11:56:14 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

            •  It's not just on this diary (7+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Deep Texan, TomP, doroma, Sue B, elwior, Dvalkure, askew

              That guy is more anti-Obama than Newt Gingrich

              And makes about as much sense

              To be a Republican, you have to believe that our economic problems are caused by the poor having too much money and the rich not having enough.

              by Tommy Jones the Band on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 10:44:20 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Excellent analysis TomP. And excellent rebuttal (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Unit Zero, TomP, doroma

              to Maximus' ad infinitum ad nauseam comments.  I, however, politely disagree with your comment "there are real flaws in policy," but I will leave that discussion to another day.

              Peace.

              The Republican Party = The American Taliban.

              by pwr2thepeople on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 11:02:21 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Thanks pwr2thepeople. (0+ / 0-)

                I just meant there weresome policies I disagree with (I want them more left) and some I agree with.  Probably a poor choice of words on my part.   My overall point is that I support Obama even if I would prefer more left policies.

                There is a reasoned positiont support Obama's re-election for  those left progressives who see Obama as more moderate than they are and have polciy disagreements.  I can see how that statement could be ambiguous.

                Anyway, thanks a lot.  

                I'm from the Elizabeth Warren and Darcy Burner Wing of the Democratic Party!

                by TomP on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 11:13:05 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

        •  the really big money (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mmacdDE

          had all those insurance bets on the payment of the pools of mortgages,  if the mortgages were paid out, two things would happen, the smart money might lose more than they cared to afford, and it would be clear that the MBSs were worthless because they greatly exceeded whatever real return could be paid out of mortgage repayment, especially prepayment.   The tranches set up who got what interest paid when.  If ten to thirty percent of mortgages paid out and the new mortgages were all low fixed rate mortgages, there wouldn't be enough 'appropriate paper' to place back in the pools, and the smart money could lose even more, plus get sued for more obvious outcomes that looked like fraud.  Remember the fine paid by Goldman Sachs for letting one hedge fund investor pick the worst paper for a product and then GS touted the product to other clients to invest in knowing it was picked to go bad?   Multiple that fine by millions.

        •  That was my thought too (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          TomP

          Don't just give the money to the banks, give it to the PEOPLE and let them give it to the banks.

          Hell, they could have run a lottery, randomly drawing people from all the tax returns. You win, you get your mortgage paid off (up to 150k), or other debt paid off (up to 150k), or student loans paid off (up to 150k) or if you have no debt, you get 150k.

          The govt could even hire Oprah to give them out - YOU get 150k and YOU get 150k...

          Just think what that would have done for the economy - lots of mortgages paid off, lots of debt paid off, lots of money in people's pockets, lots of demand.

    •  I think this is about optics also. (19+ / 0-)

      Romney does not care about folks like you; I do.

      Thaat is going to be a core aspect of the campaign.  They will pick issue after issue, and life expeerience, to make that point over and over.  Obama already leads on that according to polls.

      I'm from the Elizabeth Warren and Darcy Burner Wing of the Democratic Party!

      by TomP on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 08:57:06 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Nothing the President said impacts forclosures. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mightymouse

      Eliminate the Bush tax cuts Eliminate Afghan and Iraq wars Do these things first before considering any cuts

      by kck on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 09:11:53 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Not true--what is quoted below: (2+ / 0-)
      The other point is that this wouldn’t help all that many homeowners. The real benefit would be to refi everyone in an almost mandatory fashion. Most current borrowers can already refi into new loans. By opening this up to current borrowers who don’t already qualify, you’re talking about maybe 3 million refis. And that’s eligibility, it doesn’t mean all 3 million will actually refi. And that could be less, if Congress puts a ceiling – say 140% – on how underwater borrowers can be and still qualify
      .

      See responses interleaved:

      The other point is that this wouldn’t help all that many homeowners.

      Response:  at least 14M

      The real benefit would be to refi everyone in an almost mandatory fashion.

      Response:  It would be for people who want to do so but couldn't under current circumstances

      Most current borrowers can already refi into new loans.

      Response:  Absolutely NOT true.  Many people do NOT have Fannie or Freddie loans.  Many people make timely payments but their debt-to-income ratio is well over 50 percent and so they cannot qualify.  

       By opening this up to current borrowers who don’t already qualify, you’re talking about maybe 3 million refis. And that’s eligibility, it doesn’t mean all 3 million will actually refi. And that could be less, if Congress puts a ceiling – say 140% – on how underwater borrowers can be and still qualify.

      Response:  What is the point of saying this?  It will help a tremendous number of  citizens now drowning who did no wrong but are suffering tremendously due to the shenanigans of gamemanship of the 1%.

      Separation of Church and State AND Corporation

      by Einsteinia on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 12:44:48 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  He's smacking congress around a wee bit also. (9+ / 0-)
  •  Every home that is refinanced (26+ / 0-)

    and therefore more affordable takes money away from banks (interest on the loans) and makes it available to the homeowners (to probably spend). Plus some of those home will change from "too much to afford" to "affordable", and this will keep them out of foreclosure.

    Huge win.

    Now, let's do the same for student loans.

    In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra En théorie, il n'ya aucune différence entre théorie et pratique, mais en pratique, il ya toujours une différence. - Yogi Berra

    by blue aardvark on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 08:52:38 AM PST

    •  suffering is good for the soul...but you're an (7+ / 0-)

      aardvark.....what do you know?....;-)

    •  Nope. (0+ / 0-)

      Every home that is refinanced gives money back to the banks and makes it much more likely that the inflated valuation -- which they need for their balance sheets -- will be maintained.

      It is impossible to be too cynical about Obama's policies in this area.  To him, government is of, by, and for the TBTF banks.  It's a tiny constituency, and they completely rule his policy choices.

      The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

      "It takes balls to execute an innocent man." -- anonymous GOP focus group member on Rick Perry

      by Punditus Maximus on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 09:40:15 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yeah, the banks are totally 100% (21+ / 0-)

        behind the idea of their interest rates being lower.

        I think it is healthier to be cynical about you.

        In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra En théorie, il n'ya aucune différence entre théorie et pratique, mais en pratique, il ya toujours une différence. - Yogi Berra

        by blue aardvark on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 10:04:55 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  The bank getting refi'd from (0+ / 0-)

          gets the money back and has a balance sheet cleared.

          But sure, go ahead and assume you know more about this issue than the folks who've been following it for years.  

          The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

          "It takes balls to execute an innocent man." -- anonymous GOP focus group member on Rick Perry

          by Punditus Maximus on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 10:35:42 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I don't assume I know much about anything (18+ / 0-)

            I do know that anything you say about Obama should be taken with abundant salt.

            In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra En théorie, il n'ya aucune différence entre théorie et pratique, mais en pratique, il ya toujours une différence. - Yogi Berra

            by blue aardvark on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 10:38:34 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Aw, poor thing. (2+ / 3-)
              Recommended by:
              BradyB, Medium Head Boy
              Hidden by:
              allergywoman, elwior, fcvaguy

              You know, I keep getting told I'm "lying" about Obama, but somehow the support for that statement never seems to show.

              Well, if it's important to believe in Obama to stay in your social grouping, I'd never ask you to give up anything important in favor of something as ephemeral as the truth.

              The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

              "It takes balls to execute an innocent man." -- anonymous GOP focus group member on Rick Perry

              by Punditus Maximus on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 10:55:07 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Insults again, HR again. n/t (4+ / 0-)
              •  Ouch... (8+ / 0-)

                Photobucket

                -6.25 -7.08 The glass is neither half-full nor half-empty. The glass is just twice as large as it needs to be. If you play Microsoft CD's backwards, you hear satanic things, but that's nothing, because if you play them forwards, they install Windows.

                by Unit Zero on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 10:59:12 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Yeah, I got successfully dogpiled. (0+ / 0-)

                  At this point, an NR isn't a meaningful statement.  It just means you pissed off the Obama folks enough for them to start patrolling your comments.

                  The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

                  "It takes balls to execute an innocent man." -- anonymous GOP focus group member on Rick Perry

                  by Punditus Maximus on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 11:13:46 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Bull (12+ / 0-)

                    NR's are not community driven - that is Kos or his delegate making a decision.

                    Reaping what you sow kinda thing.

                    -6.25 -7.08 The glass is neither half-full nor half-empty. The glass is just twice as large as it needs to be. If you play Microsoft CD's backwards, you hear satanic things, but that's nothing, because if you play them forwards, they install Windows.

                    by Unit Zero on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 11:20:49 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Interesting. (0+ / 0-)

                      I assumed that if it had been an administrative decision, rather than something automatic, I would have gotten some sort of message, however cursory.

                      Le shrug.  It's their website, they can run it how they like.

                      The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

                      "It takes balls to execute an innocent man." -- anonymous GOP focus group member on Rick Perry

                      by Punditus Maximus on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 11:52:01 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  ouch (6+ / 0-)

                        that must smart knowing that Markos himself thwomped you with the NR. And here all along you were thinking you were a victim of the Obamarox crowd. That meme sure got destroyed. Maybe that might cause you to do some introspection.

                        There as this dude named Number5 here some years ago. I think he had the record for the most HRs of any Kossack. That guy as resilient. Knowed exactly how to play it. He'd get hammered with HRs for his assinine drool and then go hang out in a pootie diary and pick up tons of mojo, rinse, repeat.

                        I think you might be approaching his record. I'll have to run the numbers and see.

                        •  I'd be interested to see that - nt (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          qannabbos

                          -6.25 -7.08 The glass is neither half-full nor half-empty. The glass is just twice as large as it needs to be. If you play Microsoft CD's backwards, you hear satanic things, but that's nothing, because if you play them forwards, they install Windows.

                          by Unit Zero on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 12:21:41 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                        •  I'm sure that's the best possible (0+ / 0-)

                          use of your time.

                          This is interesting; the dogpile here is extremely similar to how I got treated when I first discovered the political blogosphere at the Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler.  

                          I did learn something important from it, though -- pseudonymity.

                          The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

                          "It takes balls to execute an innocent man." -- anonymous GOP focus group member on Rick Perry

                          by Punditus Maximus on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 12:40:11 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                        •  Also, (0+ / 0-)

                          there's no guarantee that Kos himself was the person who made that decision.  In fact, I have no idea how the decision was made at all, come to think of it; the folks who are telling me it was administrative have long since shown that they'll say anything at all if it's insulting toward me.

                          Do you ever get tired of saying stuff that just isn't true?  Is the fact that you get recs for doing so enough?  I just don't understand the herd mindset.  I've long ago learned that if I say stuff that's false all the time, it eats at me.  But that doesn't seem to be how other folks work.

                          The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

                          "It takes balls to execute an innocent man." -- anonymous GOP focus group member on Rick Perry

                          by Punditus Maximus on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 12:43:34 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  ... (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            TFinSF

                            Photobucket

                            -6.25 -7.08 The glass is neither half-full nor half-empty. The glass is just twice as large as it needs to be. If you play Microsoft CD's backwards, you hear satanic things, but that's nothing, because if you play them forwards, they install Windows.

                            by Unit Zero on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 12:52:11 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  This is what I'm talking about. (0+ / 0-)

                            I don't even know what you're referring to here.  I don't think anyone does; you're just dogpiling onto someone you've decided you can get away with saying mean things about.

                            The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

                            "It takes balls to execute an innocent man." -- anonymous GOP focus group member on Rick Perry

                            by Punditus Maximus on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 02:51:28 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Untrue (3+ / 0-)

                            I think I understand what was being referred to. As far as saying mean things (wah), you're reaping what you've sown. Enjoy!

                            There is no belief, however foolish, that will not gather its faithful adherents who will defend it to the death. -- Isaac Asimov

                            by tytalus on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 08:38:30 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                  •  it's way meaningful (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    kefauver, Unit Zero, fcvaguy

                    because you has no teef. I can't wait for the next step, so very long in coming.

                    'canter' is a horse's gait - 'cantor' is a horse's ass. - GayIthacan

                    by qannabbos on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 11:22:35 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I'm sure you can't. (0+ / 0-)

                      I've been learning a lot about people lately.

                      The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

                      "It takes balls to execute an innocent man." -- anonymous GOP focus group member on Rick Perry

                      by Punditus Maximus on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 11:33:13 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I thoroughly doubt that (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        blue aardvark

                        'canter' is a horse's gait - 'cantor' is a horse's ass. - GayIthacan

                        by qannabbos on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 12:05:53 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  I'm sure you do. (0+ / 0-)

                          But fortunately, I don't need to check in with you to decide what I have and have not learned.  I'm sure you are deeply saddened by your lack of authority over me.

                          The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

                          "It takes balls to execute an innocent man." -- anonymous GOP focus group member on Rick Perry

                          by Punditus Maximus on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 12:44:35 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  you're sure of a lot of things (0+ / 0-)

                            but they're all bizarre fantasies.

                            'canter' is a horse's gait - 'cantor' is a horse's ass. - GayIthacan

                            by qannabbos on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 12:47:15 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Wow, I can't even agree with you (0+ / 0-)

                            without you turning it into some sort of . . . thing.

                            I'm gonna wake up one morning and find a boiled rabbit on my stove, srsly.

                            The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

                            "It takes balls to execute an innocent man." -- anonymous GOP focus group member on Rick Perry

                            by Punditus Maximus on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 12:48:17 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  elsewhere, I hope (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            mahakali overdrive

                            golf, tango foxtrot oscar.

                            'canter' is a horse's gait - 'cantor' is a horse's ass. - GayIthacan

                            by qannabbos on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 12:50:46 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  It's so tough being you. (0+ / 0-)

                            I wonder how you manage.

                            The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

                            "It takes balls to execute an innocent man." -- anonymous GOP focus group member on Rick Perry

                            by Punditus Maximus on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 02:55:34 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  lol (0+ / 0-)

                            you would literally not believe how well I manage.

                            'canter' is a horse's gait - 'cantor' is a horse's ass. - GayIthacan

                            by qannabbos on Thu Feb 02, 2012 at 09:18:00 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You'd be surprised. (0+ / 0-)

                            The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

                            "It takes balls to execute an innocent man." -- anonymous GOP focus group member on Rick Perry

                            by Punditus Maximus on Thu Feb 02, 2012 at 09:31:31 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You have no idea. (0+ / 0-)

                            'canter' is a horse's gait - 'cantor' is a horse's ass. - GayIthacan

                            by qannabbos on Thu Feb 02, 2012 at 12:57:39 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Are you comparing the poster with (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            qannabbos, mallyroyal

                            Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction, in the bunny boiling scene, insinuating that you're being stalked through an epic simile.

                            My TU spidey sense is tingling... hard.

                            I look forward to hearing you explain your boil-a-bunny simile directed at another poster.

                          •  thanks (0+ / 0-)

                            I wondered at that. this is well into the realm of creepy. I can't imagine why kos stopped at spaying this critter.

                            'canter' is a horse's gait - 'cantor' is a horse's ass. - GayIthacan

                            by qannabbos on Thu Feb 02, 2012 at 12:58:52 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  That's quite a dehumanizing metaphor. (0+ / 0-)

                            It's full of notions of domination, mutilation, and restriction of agency.

                            I'm starting to get really sad about how similar this is to speaking with hardline conservatives.

                            The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

                            "It takes balls to execute an innocent man." -- anonymous GOP focus group member on Rick Perry

                            by Punditus Maximus on Thu Feb 02, 2012 at 01:41:35 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  heh. you're so cute 'n cuddly! (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Unit Zero

                            'canter' is a horse's gait - 'cantor' is a horse's ass. - GayIthacan

                            by qannabbos on Thu Feb 02, 2012 at 04:33:35 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You are to explain what you meant here (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            qannabbos, Unit Zero

                            and now about this poster boiling a bunny. That is a metaphor for stalking.

                            False allegations of stalking are bannable offenses.

                            The fact that I've not reported you for it, but am giving you a chance to further explain your point -- a point which you did not, in fact explain when questioned about upthread -- should show that I'm willing to entertain a good-faith explanation, or even an apology, for this type of allegation, an allegation which is honestly very insulting toward the original poster.

                            So again, explain your statement.

                          •  Whatever suits you. (0+ / 0-)

                            It's become excruciatingly clear that nothing I say has any effect on what you think or how you think it.  I don't expect to respond to any statements you make in the future.

                            The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

                            "It takes balls to execute an innocent man." -- anonymous GOP focus group member on Rick Perry

                            by Punditus Maximus on Thu Feb 02, 2012 at 11:58:51 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You want to change how I think? (0+ / 0-)

                            Why? And in what way?

                            And if you won't respond to me, then why are you bothering to post on an open forum?

                            Because you and I have no history at all. And I am merely questioning you in a way that is direct, after you've wracked up a goodly number of HR's and a lot of bile and ire from various members of this community. In that questioning, you could easily clarify or redeem yourself from the negative social cast which you've acquired here recently (I've seen you declared "HOS" for example).

                            And instead, you're just saying "Bye." And walking away.

                            See, that action has far more tell to it than anything you're saying. What are you running from, other than not being able to influence my point of view (and I don't really know how you want to influence it... you've made few statements that I've seen about wanting to impart your knowledge about anything to me... what do you wish precisely to change my mind ABOUT?)

                          •  No, (0+ / 0-)

                            it is an allegation of stalking lodged at another commenter.

                            Please, contact the administration of the site with this. I would really love to see the outcome of that.

                            I am sure that it would get all of the attention that it deserves.

                            -6.25 -7.08 The glass is neither half-full nor half-empty. The glass is just twice as large as it needs to be. If you play Microsoft CD's backwards, you hear satanic things, but that's nothing, because if you play them forwards, they install Windows.

                            by Unit Zero on Fri Feb 03, 2012 at 07:56:22 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

              •  Some things are self-evident. (3+ / 0-)
                You know, I keep getting told I'm "lying" about Obama, but somehow the support for that statement never seems to show.
                •  Heh. (0+ / 0-)

                  "A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices." --William James

                  The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

                  "It takes balls to execute an innocent man." -- anonymous GOP focus group member on Rick Perry

                  by Punditus Maximus on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 12:00:30 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

              •  Totally uncalled for. (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                qannabbos, mahakali overdrive

                "We the People of the United States...." -U.S. Constitution

                by elwior on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 12:00:26 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  The word "lying" appears no where in my (6+ / 0-)

                comment.

                I didn't mean to imply you lie; merely that you have an agenda; a bias; an unrelenting, unceasing hatred of Barack Hussein Obama and it shows up in most of your comments.

                Now, if you want to prove you aren't lying, go find numerous links to people who (1) Demonstrably have been following mortgages for years and (2) Demonstrably say that the main purpose of the refinancing is to benefit the TBTF banks.

                D-Day would be a start, or Krugman. People like that.

                In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra En théorie, il n'ya aucune différence entre théorie et pratique, mais en pratique, il ya toujours une différence. - Yogi Berra

                by blue aardvark on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 12:40:44 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Wow, that is pure projection. (0+ / 0-)

                  I don't subject my understanding of the world and how it works to whether or not it supports a particular view of a particular politician.

                  Indeed, that's been my point since this whole business started, that people shouldn't do that.  They should accept people's actions and not impose their own needs onto it.

                  The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

                  "It takes balls to execute an innocent man." -- anonymous GOP focus group member on Rick Perry

                  by Punditus Maximus on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 12:47:18 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  your understanding of the world? (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    kalmoth

                    you don't have one.

                    'canter' is a horse's gait - 'cantor' is a horse's ass. - GayIthacan

                    by qannabbos on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 12:48:33 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Oh honey. (0+ / 0-)

                      Read a book, catch a butterfly, eat a nice homecooked meal.  Life's too short to hate some guy on a blog because you don't like what he has to say.

                      The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

                      "It takes balls to execute an innocent man." -- anonymous GOP focus group member on Rick Perry

                      by Punditus Maximus on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 12:49:14 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  oh, sweetcheeks (0+ / 0-)

                        I've got a nice, hot bowl of grits, primed and ready for your kiss of concern.

                        'canter' is a horse's gait - 'cantor' is a horse's ass. - GayIthacan

                        by qannabbos on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 12:51:41 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Wow. (0+ / 0-)

                          Obama supporters sure are full of hatred.

                          The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

                          "It takes balls to execute an innocent man." -- anonymous GOP focus group member on Rick Perry

                          by Punditus Maximus on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 03:05:04 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  it only appears that way to you (0+ / 0-)

                            because Obama's detractors are incredibly ignorant and unperceptive. Maybe it's the stark contrast?

                            'canter' is a horse's gait - 'cantor' is a horse's ass. - GayIthacan

                            by qannabbos on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 03:32:14 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  No, I'm pretty clear (0+ / 0-)

                            on how you and your fellow travelers are acting.  I didn't feel that way about Obama's supporters, say, a week ago.

                            Like I said, I'm learning things.

                            The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

                            "It takes balls to execute an innocent man." -- anonymous GOP focus group member on Rick Perry

                            by Punditus Maximus on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 03:35:22 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  like I said, (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Unit Zero

                            I seriously doubt that. not a shred of evidence.

                            'canter' is a horse's gait - 'cantor' is a horse's ass. - GayIthacan

                            by qannabbos on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 04:34:07 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Seriously. (0+ / 0-)

                            I had no idea how hateful toward outgroup members things had gotten.

                            The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

                            "It takes balls to execute an innocent man." -- anonymous GOP focus group member on Rick Perry

                            by Punditus Maximus on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 04:55:30 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You have no idea. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Unit Zero

                            'canter' is a horse's gait - 'cantor' is a horse's ass. - GayIthacan

                            by qannabbos on Thu Feb 02, 2012 at 12:30:10 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Yes, that was my point. (0+ / 0-)

                            I had no idea, until recently, how hateful toward outgroup members Obama's supporters had gotten.

                            The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

                            "It takes balls to execute an innocent man." -- anonymous GOP focus group member on Rick Perry

                            by Punditus Maximus on Thu Feb 02, 2012 at 03:24:26 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  no, I meant you have no idea. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Unit Zero

                            'canter' is a horse's gait - 'cantor' is a horse's ass. - GayIthacan

                            by qannabbos on Thu Feb 02, 2012 at 04:37:17 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Oh, Snap! (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            qannabbos

                            Thats gotta sting...

                            -6.25 -7.08 The glass is neither half-full nor half-empty. The glass is just twice as large as it needs to be. If you play Microsoft CD's backwards, you hear satanic things, but that's nothing, because if you play them forwards, they install Windows.

                            by Unit Zero on Fri Feb 03, 2012 at 07:57:35 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  omg, now I'm a commie! (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            mahakali overdrive, Unit Zero

                            fellow traveler

                            it will almost suck a little when you're banned, due to the lessening of the hilarity quotient around here!

                            nah...it won't. it will be completely fine.

                            'canter' is a horse's gait - 'cantor' is a horse's ass. - GayIthacan

                            by qannabbos on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 04:37:08 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Wacky. (0+ / 0-)

                            Yeah, I was totally unfamiliar with that connotation, which was common during my grandparents' childhood.

                            Anyways, I'll probably avoid using the term in the future.  Thanks!

                            The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

                            "It takes balls to execute an innocent man." -- anonymous GOP focus group member on Rick Perry

                            by Punditus Maximus on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 04:54:21 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  You know why I'm not hanging around here much (5+ / 0-)

                            for the past few days?

                            I'm an exceedingly congenial person most of the time. It's a value which I hold. Your words here and views here make me want to say all manner of thing which would only be filed away later into the envelope marked "stuff I regret saying." These are usually reserved for people with whom I was once close. We've never been. So I'm unwilling, and thus more absent than usual to avoid your screeds and trolling and behavior along with that of a few other posters who seem to see lock-step with you and your reprehensible worldview.

                            Honestly, I really wish you'd find a place where you were happier posting... there are so many forums out there in the wide blogosphere.

                          •  I don't know how to respond to this. (0+ / 0-)

                            I'm just not that large a piece of DailyKos.  Handsful of diaries, and comments on maybe a half-dozen diaries a day.    I'm always meeting new people who think my sig is funny.

                            I guess I'm also really sad that you feel obligated to blame the victim here.  On a basic level, I believe in this site's mission, to elect more and better Democrats.

                            The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

                            "It takes balls to execute an innocent man." -- anonymous GOP focus group member on Rick Perry

                            by Punditus Maximus on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 10:43:22 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I feel obligated to blame the victim. (4+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            AnnetteK, qannabbos, Unit Zero, mallyroyal

                            Ugh, disgusting if real -- in my case, a slap across the face (was it the cancer, the holocaust family, or the domestic assault which keyed you in to this weak spot?), pathetic and ugly if a put on. Hands down. Let's just not play the oppression olympics here, now, or ever, okay? It's immaterial to civil discourse on a politically based website. Believe it or not, I do come here for the politics. And I leave when I'm going to say something that will blast someone hard enough that I know I'd get HR'd for it. While it's a wide site, you've been everywhere I go for days, so... I'm biting my tongue still.

                            Maybe you're boiling MY bunny (to throw your own craven insinuation of being stalked back at you here).

                            Not that I think you are. You're just some curiousity who reads as garden-variety to me. YMMV, and others may too.

                            But I hope those tears are big and wet. You wouldn't lie about something like that, would you?

                            Now answer my other questions. Thank you and good night. I won't be back until you're not on my screen.

                          •  Hunh. (0+ / 0-)

                            "Let's just not play the oppression olympics here, now, or ever, okay?"

                            Well, at least you're self-aware enough to know what you're doing.  I promise not to join in, how's that?

                            Just because I should expect people to act inappropriately doesn't mean that they didn't act inappropriately.  It just means that people can get predictable when they decide that they're off the hook.

                            I really genuinely believed that we were more different from the Repubs than it turns out we are.  We are experiencing, as Democrats, a profound crisis of leadership.  Our nominated and elected President is so far right that Ron Paul, a racist womanhater, is making inroads into our base.  And rather than talk about why and how that is happening, we're too busy ostracizing anyone who notes that it is actually taking place.  Again, it's not like I'd be seriously victimized even if I were banned from DKos.  But it's unbelievably stupid that it's something that so many people are actively wishing for.  It's a sign of a destructive groupthink that is keeping people from understanding reality as it exists.  It is, in short, a Federal Reserve board meeting from about three months before the housing bubble popped.  Lots of smart people who are egging one another into increasing conformity against reality.

                            I'm sad that you're as angry as you say you are.  But I believe that you would be well served by sticking to your first instinct and waiting before responding further.  

                            The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

                            "It takes balls to execute an innocent man." -- anonymous GOP focus group member on Rick Perry

                            by Punditus Maximus on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 11:04:01 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Where precisely did I say that I was (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            TrueBlueMajority, qannabbos

                            angry?

                            I was not, nor do I see a statement saying that I am.

                            Are you struggling with reading-for-tone here?

                            Your larger point here is a fascinating bit about how smart but paranoid people can increasingly grow insular and fall prey to certain types of thinking which is inflected by various levels of non-reality. It strikes me as an apropos topic. I'm so glad you foregrounded this notion.

                            It's also interesting that you wish that I remain silent and say nothing.

                          •  I don't particularly wish for you (0+ / 0-)

                            to do much of anything.  I gave you some free advice, worth what you paid for it.  But it has nothing to do with my interests.  It's a free country, and you can do or think anything you care to.  You will never, ever need either my permission or my endorsement, and I would never be interested in that power if you offered it.  That kind of control -- and censorship -- is about your needs, not mine.

                            Anyways, this:

                            Your words here and views here make me want to say all manner of thing which would only be filed away later into the envelope marked "stuff I regret saying.

                            implies anger to this reader.  I feel that it would to most.  So you might want to take some time to reexamine how you communicate your state of mind, if accurate communication is a priority to you.  

                            The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

                            "It takes balls to execute an innocent man." -- anonymous GOP focus group member on Rick Perry

                            by Punditus Maximus on Thu Feb 02, 2012 at 03:14:18 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Regret does not mean anger (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            Unit Zero

                            One might regret saying something because of a wide variety of emotional responses, or even social ramifications.

                            Regretting a statement / being angry.

                            I will explain this further in a while. For now, again I have to go, and besides, your replies are complicated here; they are building upon themselves even while I'm not interacting at all with them. I was at work all day, though you've replied to me four times with varied responses each time, changing and shifting. That's interesting to me.

                            More on why later.

                          •  Yes. (0+ / 0-)

                            The more I considered your statements, the more ridiculous and enraging they became.  Do what you think is best; I have no need to bring what you have to give me into my life.

                            The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

                            "It takes balls to execute an innocent man." -- anonymous GOP focus group member on Rick Perry

                            by Punditus Maximus on Fri Feb 03, 2012 at 12:00:16 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  And that is why you continue to reply? - nt (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            mahakali overdrive

                            -6.25 -7.08 The glass is neither half-full nor half-empty. The glass is just twice as large as it needs to be. If you play Microsoft CD's backwards, you hear satanic things, but that's nothing, because if you play them forwards, they install Windows.

                            by Unit Zero on Fri Feb 03, 2012 at 07:59:03 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  So you are then admitting to projecting (0+ / 0-)

                            your feelings of anger onto your perception of me.

                            It's unfortunate that you don't understand how you make others here feel, which seems to run the gamut of emotions. This is a Democratic website. We're in an election year. While this website serves many functions, one central one is to find ways to promote Democratic politicians' reelections, which given your self-stated volunteerism for this cause, should be an action which you, yourself, would be the first to understand and be on board with.

                            What's curious to me is that the impact of so many of your statements are totally negative on a large majority of posters here, posters who are presumably in your general, at least rough, demographic. I would presume that's why you get HR'd often, get into lots of arguments with others, and so forth: because of negative emotional responses which people have toward your posts.

                            You may dismiss all of those people as "Obama supporters." But that doesn't make it true, nor does it make it bad, for again, we're in an election year, and supporting the Democratic frontrunner isn't precisely to be unexpected here. In fact, by the time that the election rolls around, you can expect that all posters will talk about voting for Obama. Or else they aren't going to openly talk about it; the social ramifications of saying "I voted for someone else" during a contested election year, on this site, are generally very poor.

                            Since you focus, in almost all of your posts, on Obama and not any other Democratic politicians, my presumption here is that your main concern is with the Presidential race. If not, you sure are giving off that impression. And also if not, you are certainly doing your favored Democratic politicians no favors by failing to mention them. Almost every diary that you've written centers around President Obama, in fact. So I assume that you have an investment of some sort in his election status. But what investment is that? Are you just holding his feet to the fire? Hardly. You seem to be working toward depressing his base, even more so than enthusing another. Maybe you can explain this better than I can. I don't really like to pretend to be a mind reader.

                            A lot of people on this forum are very much noticing you... so you might as well explain yourself.

                          •  Separately, (0+ / 0-)

                            don't talk about "smart but paranoid" people when referring to my statements.  I was referring to groupthink, which is about "insular" people, which can ensnare even quite intelligent ones.  If you talk about "smart and paranoid," again, that's what you're interested in discussing, not what I wanted to bring up.

                            You know, that's phrased wrongly.  I'm coming to understand that neither my words nor the intentions behind them are relevant to you, so feel free to fabricate any story you care to about them if that's what suits your needs.  You'll just be disappointed if you expect me to play along.  But if that's something you want, you can get that, too.  

                            I'm sad that I was easily enough fooled to think that you were any different from the other folks who are making things up about me.  Well, you gotta give people opportunities.

                            ref: groupthink:
                            http://en.wikipedia.org/...

                            The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

                            "It takes balls to execute an innocent man." -- anonymous GOP focus group member on Rick Perry

                            by Punditus Maximus on Thu Feb 02, 2012 at 03:20:26 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                  •  I notce a continuing lack (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    kalmoth, mahakali overdrive

                    of sources for what you said about the purpose of the refinancing.

                    Many words, few facts, lots of name calling and armchair psychoanalysis.

                    Text book troll.

                    In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra En théorie, il n'ya aucune différence entre théorie et pratique, mais en pratique, il ya toujours une différence. - Yogi Berra

                    by blue aardvark on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 12:52:54 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I note a zero probability (0+ / 0-)

                      that you will accept anything whatsoever that I link to as valid or accurate.

                      Let's have some modicum of honesty here.

                      Anyways, DDay has already weighed in, and he's made clear that this isn't about homeowners:

                      http://news.firedoglake.com/...

                      Notice I didn’t say that it’s a housing policy. Because it isn’t. This is a stimulus policy, which could be effective depending on the scale. But refis do not save people’s homes, and certainly not underwater homes. That’s especially true because this is a program for current borrowers:

                      If it's not for homeowners, who is it for?  Work with me.  Or don't, whatever.  It's your life.

                      The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

                      "It takes balls to execute an innocent man." -- anonymous GOP focus group member on Rick Perry

                      by Punditus Maximus on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 03:04:39 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

      •  That's exactly Romney's position. (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TomP, Fogiv, mahakali overdrive, AnnetteK

        If you don't help, then the value of the home will fall from its presently "inflated valuation" and reach the "correct" market price at the bottom.

        I didn't know you were a republican, but in your search to find anything to club Obama with, you'll steal their dumbshit ideas in a heartbeat.

        You're a godawaful shitty poster.  Just leave.

        “Romney’s ‘I’m not concerned with the very poor’ line may be the most idiotic thing a politician has ever said,” The Weekly Standard’s John McCormack tweeted.

        by Inland on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 12:50:03 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  I like this new election year Obama (13+ / 0-)

    He is wiser and not brimming with those Team of Rivals fantasies now that the Republican's intentions to slash and burn are clear.

    If cats could blog, they wouldn't

    by crystal eyes on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 09:00:38 AM PST

    •  I like Election Year Obama, too (14+ / 0-)

      and the GOPers are making it so easy.

      When someone is impatient and says, "I haven't got all day," I always wonder, How can that be? How can you not have all day? George Carlin

      by msmacgyver on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 09:07:30 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  A lot of those "team of rivals" fantasies worked (11+ / 0-)

      Ray LaHood has been great at DOT, in my opinion.

      Gates was fantastic, and helped us calibrate the strategy on DADT to be maximally effective and minimally controversial.

      In the early months of the administration, Obama's posture was very helpful in bringing Arlen Spector over, which gave the Democrats their 60th vote (although we lacked the party discipline to make it count, as usual).

      I think this was always the intention. I don't think Obama thinks in terms of winning the news cycle. I think he believes that the time you spend appearing to be non-partisan makes you that much stronger when you rev the partisan engines during the re-elect campaign. I think that should he get a second term, we will see a third Obama that is more aggressive politically, and more active in his dealings with Congressional democrats and republicans.

      •  I think he truly wanted bipartisanship, a Grand (15+ / 0-)

        bargain, but last summer convicned him it was not possible now.  He now sees that he needs a decisive victory in 2012 and a Dem Congress.  

        I'm from the Elizabeth Warren and Darcy Burner Wing of the Democratic Party!

        by TomP on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 09:23:41 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I don't think the past tense (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          TomP, mightymouse

          is relevant.  This is a tactic.

          The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

          "It takes balls to execute an innocent man." -- anonymous GOP focus group member on Rick Perry

          by Punditus Maximus on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 09:41:09 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  We'll see. (10+ / 0-)

            I'm from the Elizabeth Warren and Darcy Burner Wing of the Democratic Party!

            by TomP on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 09:43:14 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  You gonna keep trolling this diary, like you (10+ / 0-)

            do every diary that puts the Prez is a positive light?

            Christ almighty, you're fucking transparent.

            •  when he saw my positive factual diary (3+ / 0-)

              getting so much popular, he tried to poo poo all the positive comments. too late.

              and he blamed failed single payer bill in california on obama but not on brown or the democrats in california.

              Jon stewart gave nasty looks at his audience when Kathleen seblius told a positive fact about the health care law.

              basically shorter PM, his ilk, and jon stewart:" my opinion is the right one and anyone else disagreeing or challenging me can go "f" themselves.

              •  I didn't blame failed single payer in Cali (0+ / 0-)

                on Obama.  

                If you have to make stuff up to keep yourself angry with me, why not just . . . not do that?

                The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

                "It takes balls to execute an innocent man." -- anonymous GOP focus group member on Rick Perry

                by Punditus Maximus on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 03:25:04 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                  •  I can't link (0+ / 0-)

                    to something I didn't say!

                    The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

                    "It takes balls to execute an innocent man." -- anonymous GOP focus group member on Rick Perry

                    by Punditus Maximus on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 10:44:37 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Proof of your point of view (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      qannabbos

                      Restate your position in full here then if it's not a reference to another place. Perhaps that will clear up any misunderstanding which has been had. Be concise and specific for best results.

                      •  There's no particular connection. (0+ / 0-)

                        Other than that obviously both the Obama Administration and California have recently taken on health care, and that Obama wasn't a big proponent of single payer during his run at the problem.

                        But that is a vague ideological connection and has nothing to do with the specific event of failure at the California state level.  That was a fabrication of the person posting here.

                        The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

                        "It takes balls to execute an innocent man." -- anonymous GOP focus group member on Rick Perry

                        by Punditus Maximus on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 11:07:53 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  You are triangulating badly from the question (0+ / 0-)

                          of the comments which I requested, which were from the diary which sreeizle mentioned, the one you "pooped" in.

                          That is why I asked you for a link.

                          But you said you had not made any comments.

                          Now, I go there, into that diary, and I find an awful lot of comments which do seem to support sreeizle's contention:

                          he blamed failed single payer bill in california on obama but not on brown or the democrats in california.

                          http://www.dailykos.com/...

                          http://www.dailykos.com/...

                          http://www.dailykos.com/...

                          http://www.dailykos.com/...

                          This follows a pattern. In two months, you have made 431 direct references to the President, none of which are positive from the random sampling which I made of these statements.

                          Now, I don't believe that one needs to be uncritical of the President. Of course not. That is bad citizenship all around. However, the question of whether you have a tendency to "poo poo" on comments that support the President, in his role on HCR or other capacities for that matter, or whether you are simply here to make negative statements about Obama (and apparently disregarding the rest of the Democratic Party) is what you were asked about. You said that sreeizle was MAKING THAT UP.

                          I beg to differ, and there are 431 of your posts, and an additional several more, which strongly refute what you are saying. There are obviously a ton more which could be dredged up. These are ONLY references in a two-month span to the President. Do you work over Barbara Boxer with such vigor?

                          It seems peculiar since you claim (on your main page) that you are a volunteer for the Democratic Party ("establishment" is the term you lovingly use for it). Did you always bash the Democratic frontrunner for President, or is that more of a recent pique?

                          Next time, don't lie to me when I ask you a point blank question. Thank you.

                          •  Nothing you have posted (0+ / 0-)

                            has remotely supported the contention that I blamed failed single payer in California on Obama.

                            You just put a lot of words and energy into this, and you supported my statement as written.  The reason for that is, I didn't do what our Obama supporter friend accused me of doing.

                            If you want to talk about why this particular online persona is critical of Obama, we can.  But we have to start from the truth that you agree with me that I didn't do what I was accused of doing, and that this creates the sense that Obama's supporters on DKos have to fabricate events to support their sense of outrage, because they can't do it based on the facts.  In fact, that kind of tendency toward fabrication can be part of that conversation.

                            But this all depends on whether or not you care about what's true, rather than whether or not people are "allowed" to be critical of Obama.

                            The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

                            "It takes balls to execute an innocent man." -- anonymous GOP focus group member on Rick Perry

                            by Punditus Maximus on Thu Feb 02, 2012 at 09:12:35 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Oh, I just noticed that you accused me of lying (0+ / 0-)

                            in pursuit of your false accusation.

                            You should probably either walk that back or just admit that your definition of "lying" is "saying something true that I don't like."

                            The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

                            "It takes balls to execute an innocent man." -- anonymous GOP focus group member on Rick Perry

                            by Punditus Maximus on Thu Feb 02, 2012 at 09:21:39 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

            •  Are you going to seriously claim (0+ / 0-)

              that "every diary that puts the Prez in a positive light" has even a comment from me, much less a negative one?

              The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

              "It takes balls to execute an innocent man." -- anonymous GOP focus group member on Rick Perry

              by Punditus Maximus on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 03:23:49 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  I hope so (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          TomP, Eric Nelson, mahakali overdrive

          If he really wants a Dem Congress he will drop the "blame both sides" stuff.

          There was a good article recently in the New Yorker that basically underscored your point. He really was into the bipartisan thing.

          An ambulance can only go so fast - Neil Young

          by mightymouse on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 11:15:20 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I suspect he will blend (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Eric Nelson, mightymouse

            being above the fray (attackong "Congress") and blaiming R obsttruction in Congress.  Yes, I hate that blame both sides thing also.  I think that is politcial rhetoric associated with him now that he uses.

            I read that article.  Thought it was excellent.

            I'm from the Elizabeth Warren and Darcy Burner Wing of the Democratic Party!

            by TomP on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 11:27:19 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

  •  Just as long as there isn't.. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MKSinSA

    a clause exempting suit if the mortgage in the first place was robo-signed..

  •  When does it stop being taboo to mention (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TomP, Matt Z

    Romney by name?

    I realize that he's not the nominee yet, and that tradition dictates that he should use the "some say" construction until that happens.

    I also realize that it may not be smart politics to "annoint" Romney as the nominee by having Obama draw contrasts with him by name.

    But if you really want the attack to stick, its got to have the teeth that comes from pinning that line on Mittens personally.

    •  You answered your own question. (0+ / 0-)

      When he's the nominee.  And also, only surrogates should mention Romney's name even in the general.  Obama lends Romney credibility just by saying his name, in exactly the same way Clinton lent Cain credibility back in the day.

      The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

      "It takes balls to execute an innocent man." -- anonymous GOP focus group member on Rick Perry

      by Punditus Maximus on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 09:42:01 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Romney is right (9+ / 0-)

    ...if you look at this as a strict mathematical calculation.  His suggestion very likely is the most efficient and expedient way to get past this housing crisis.

    The problem is, it's not a strict mathematical calculation. There are people involved. People who would end up homeless.  People who have few options to live elsewhere.  People who can't afford to move.  People who are sick or disabled or elderly. People whose life savings are tied up in equity in their houses.

    And that is Romney's fundamental problem.  It's in these little comments ("Corporations are people, my friend!") that his true personality is revealed.

    The fact is, he doesn't see the housing crisis (or any other crisis, evidently) as a people problem. He sees it as a math problem.  It's the same way he conducted himself at Bain Capital. To Romney, the human cost is not a cost to be considered in one's decision-making. The only thing that matters is a cold, impersonal calculation of how to maximize financial gain and shift the risk of loss to others.

    People sense that about him. That's why he doesn't engender true enthusiasm beyond those few who see the world through a similar lens.

    •  He sees the world as an MBA, a (4+ / 0-)

      LBO specialist.  It's cold and business, about exploitation of others to make profits for self.

      He is the face of the 1%, of 21st centruy capitalism triumphant.  

      And that is his key weakness.

      I'm from the Elizabeth Warren and Darcy Burner Wing of the Democratic Party!

      by TomP on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 09:51:51 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Romney is wrong (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TomP, CupofTea

      those policies led to the worst depression ever!  i'd like to NOT repeat that..

      Thanks to Obama, we didn't.

      -You want to change the system, run for office.

      by Deep Texan on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 11:01:24 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Romney isn't even asking the right questions (0+ / 0-)

      I'm not following.  How is he solving a math problem?  Bundling mortages and leveraging them 30 times or more and then selling them on the international market -- how does that "solve" a math problem?

      Romney isn't even asking the right questions, let alone have any kind of solution.

      •  All this was done in 08 or 07 (0+ / 0-)

        that led to the forclsure bubble.  And, yes, derivitives played a huge roll as well.  How does his plan solve this problem?  Leave the "market" alone?  It's not a a "free market" -- its' a gambling free for all.  No way to value goods and services -- the heart of a true free market.

        Romney doesn't know jack -- except how to manipulate the tax system to his advantage.

      •  That's not it. (0+ / 0-)

        People have mortgages that have more in principal than the houses are worth.  Even some of those who are still above water on their mortgages no longer can afford to pay their mortgages or qualify to refinance.  

        That's the math problem. So his recommendation is let all those go into default until only those who can afford their mortgages are left. Then, let investors buy up their houses at a discount and rent them back to those who formerly "owned" them.

        He laid it out all right there in his statement. It's the most expedient way to solve the problem as long as you ignore human misery.

        How the problem got created -- the securitization of mortgages, the suspension of mortgage qualification, and the concomitant inflation of the housing bubble -- he's not addressing in this statement.  

  •  Obama isn't proposing anything for foreclosures (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sanctimonious, mightymouse, mrblifil

    In fact, the GSEs have announced that they're accelerating their foreclosures.

    The President did articulate a policy reversal away from price reflation. I think Obama did the right thing but it's not the same nuance you seem to be trying to use to create a contrast to Romney.

    What Romney said is consistent with what Obama is doing. Obama just didn't like Romney's phrasing.

    Eliminate the Bush tax cuts Eliminate Afghan and Iraq wars Do these things first before considering any cuts

    by kck on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 09:31:35 AM PST

    •  And Obama's HAMP program is (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mightymouse, Medium Head Boy

      a disastrous failure and a scam designed to help the banks pull the rug from under the feet of the 99% by tricking them  to keep them paying their mortgages until the banks are ready to foreclose on them.  Rahm essentially admitted HAMP was a scam. Funny how 3 years into his term prior to re-election Obama suddenly comes up with a 'plan' (NOTE TO THE 99%: IF YOU"RE NOT A BANK, BE SURE TO READ THE FINE PRINT). At least Romney sounds like will he'll be more straightforward about pulling the rug out from under the 99%.

      "It depends what the meaning of 'is', is"
      Platform of the "New" Neoliberal Democratic Party
      Speaking out of one side of their mouth for the little guy, their nominal constituency, and the other for the plutocracy, their real constituency.

      by Sanctimonious on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 11:03:40 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Obama chose to limit HAMP to appease the GOP (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        BradyB, mrblifil

        It seems as if he's chosen to pivot away from that strategy either due to the political timing or having learned a lesson Let's hope it's the latter and this new policy outlives the re-election.

        Eliminate the Bush tax cuts Eliminate Afghan and Iraq wars Do these things first before considering any cuts

        by kck on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 11:30:42 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Do you know what will really help (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TomP, BlueDragon, BradyB, tidalwave1

    struggling, responsible homeowners?

    Jobs.  That pay well.

    The two things Teabaggers hate most are: being called racists; and black people.

    "It takes balls to execute an innocent man." -- anonymous GOP focus group member on Rick Perry

    by Punditus Maximus on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 09:34:46 AM PST

  •  FHA, VA (5+ / 0-)

    Both programs have been generous about lowering interest rates and working with borrowers in trouble over the past 35 years that I sold real estate.  Now that FNMA and Freddie are also owned by the government, they could do the same.  The difference is that these programs have employees.  They do not robo-sign.  They do not sell their loans.  They keep records.  They have been in business a very long time and know how to make a loan.  FNMA and Freddie were corrupted by their private connections and it is time to clean house over there.  This only works in areas that are not under-water.  Taking a loss on a loan hopefully will be part of the work of the new committee.

  •  Good work here, Tom. n/t (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TomP, Imhotepsings, Deep Texan

    My forthcoming book Obama's America: A Transformative Vision of Our National Identity will be published in Summer 2012 by Potomac Books.

    by Ian Reifowitz on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 10:25:46 AM PST

  •  Isn't the Bill of Rights (0+ / 0-)

    with the disclosure form part of the CSFB?

  •  If that "forbearance" clause stays in--it will (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TomP

    need to include any interest in that forbearance.

    Banks make a ton on letting the interest accrue even if they stop collecting on the principal. If they give you a break on paying any principal for a year, your loan pay-off amount would increase appreciably. See "Skip-a-Pay" offers.   This sounds like a bank "compromise" that actually increases the amount you pay them in the long run.

    His silence says everything we need to know.

    by livjack on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 10:36:32 AM PST

  •  too late for me... (0+ / 0-)

    already moved out of state, rented it for as long as I could, gave up and said take it. now just waiting on the stupid banks to claim it.  get it over with as far as I'm concerned.

    if this restructuring would help the people and not the banks I'm for it but HAMP did just the opposite.

  •  I thought that Obama can do mass re-financing (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TomP

    without the Congress.

    Why doesn't he just re-place DeMarco and do a mas re-financing plan.

    President Obama, January 9, 2012: "Change is hard, but it is possible. I've Seen it. I've Lived it."

    by Drdemocrat on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 11:11:47 AM PST

  •  Political Posturing -or- Using Political Leverage (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TomP

    Political Posturing = Campaign Pie-in-the-Sky Promises

    vs.

    Using Political Leverage = DOJs are in negotiation with the bankster perps that are guilty of crimes that would result in average people (who are not corporations) to serve multiple life sentences in prison.  Therefore, they are in a strong position to smartly leverage deals that benefit the middle class, i.e., the White House proposal detailed today.

    Therefore, the question of the day for the White House is:  Are we going to get Geithnered on this proposal -or- will Obama make it happen?


    P.S.  On another topic, the meme that the previous 4 attempts are HAMP and HARP have not worked is simply not true.  HAMP did not work when it relied on voluntary compliance, BUT HARP--the refinance program--was very successful and will be even more successful in the coming days when the loan-to-value limits are removed. That is a done deal that doesn't get much play.

    Separation of Church and State AND Corporation

    by Einsteinia on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 11:13:49 AM PST

  •  Hopefully (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TomP, mahakali overdrive

    Romney will feel inspired to sing another song in response... might I suggest "Puttin' On The Ritz."

  •  Thurston Howell III speaks like the evil (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TomP

    monstrous vampire squid that he is.

    tipped and rec'ed

    The radical Republican party is the party of oppression, fear, loathing and above all more money and power for the people who robbed us.

    by a2nite on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 11:50:21 AM PST

  •  My idea on the housing situation (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TomP

    would have been this:

    Let those behind in their mortgages refinance at 2%.

    Those current on their mortgages could refinance at 1%.

    Everybody wins except the banks.  Fuck them anyway.

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