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Some good news about food finally! The Federal government Department of Agriculture (U.S.D.A.) has issued new guidelines for 32 million kids-10% of the American population-and it's healthy!  The  new rules are the first changes to the program in 15 years, and come as part of the Healthy Hunger-Free Kids Act.

The guidelines are imperfect (what isn’t?) but worth celebrating: this is the single most significant improvement the Obama administration has made in the realm of food. The rules will double the amount of fruits and vegetables served in schools, set limits on damaging trans fats and salt, increase the amount of whole grains served, make low-fat milk the norm and establish suitable ranges for daily caloric intake.

And, incredibly, the U.S.D.A. moves will cost less than half of the agency’s original proposal. Even more stunning is that it’s doing this by scaling back on meat — abandoning requirements that schools serve meat or “meat alternatives” at breakfast. That is perhaps most commendable; teaching kids that nutritious meals don’t necessarily center on “protein” is one of the most important steps we can take in creating a sane diet for generations to come.

[my emphasis]

The U.S.D.A. stills makes too many concessions to the agriculture industry and that is because Big Agri hires powerful lobbyists but this is a big step in the right direction and should be seen as a major victory by food, health and environmental activists.

As should everyone else, because in food, as in most other arenas of our lives, corporate interests have long enjoyed disproportionate and increasing influence, and shifting that balance of power is among the biggest challenges facing Americans right now. Government can be an ally or an enemy in that fight, and the new guidelines are a welcome example of it using its weight to benefit most of us. The school lunch program is at the forefront of the uphill battle to feed kids well in this country, and — one way or the other — it will set an example for them five days a week, probably until that example spreads to society at large.

Don't think this was easy to do.  They had to fight the meat industry all the way. This gives me hope that this Administration is looking out for our children's futures.  By reducing meat consumption this also helps in our fight to reduce dangerous greenhouse gas emissions.  A win-win for all of us.

Originally posted to beach babe in fl on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 03:43 PM PST.

Also republished by I Vote for Democrats and Meatless Advocates Meetup.

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Comment Preferences

  •  I have a couple of concerns: (9+ / 0-)

    1.  It opens the door for things that should not be on a menu--high sugar carbs, for instance.

    2.  What about the essential proteins that all people need, but especially children, to build muscle and stuff?  The alternatives are VERY expensive.

    "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." --M. L. King "You can't fix stupid" --Ron White -6.00, -5.18

    by zenbassoon on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 03:50:17 PM PST

  •  I Am Nothing Close To An Expert Here (3+ / 0-)

    as a kid in the 70s my mother made my meal everyday. I don't know what my fellow students ate, but it sure looked gross. That if we try to feed them something remotely healthy, I can get behind that.

    When opportunity calls pick up the phone and give it directions to your house.

    by webranding on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 03:54:13 PM PST

  •  I Dare You To Watch This (5+ / 0-)










    When opportunity calls pick up the phone and give it directions to your house.

    by webranding on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 03:59:35 PM PST

    •  I'm sorry, but where does this guy (0+ / 0-)

      Get off coming to this country to harange kids and people into eating healthier? Maybe it's the big secret that there are fat and unhealthy people in England, too. Why doesn't he harange his own countrymen and women?

      Besides, once upon a time this guy was skinny. Not any more, so I ain't listening to him.

      •  he actually has done a lot of work (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SolarMom

        improving kids meals in the UK, too.  For many years, with a lot of success.

        http://www.jamieoliver.com/...

        It seems from the history of his foundation that his heart is in the right place.  

        And when the US has the highest obesity rates in the world, why should it matter what country he was born in?  

        If a person wants to address poverty shouldn't they go to impoverished areas to make the biggest difference?

        "The death penalty is never about the criminal. They've already done their worst. The question is always "will we join them"?" - jlynne

        by Hopeful Skeptic on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 08:50:34 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  People helping the impoverished (0+ / 0-)

          Don't expect to make money from their help. If you think that I think that Oliver isn't making money doing this I have a bridge you might like to look at, tho.

          •  did you read the link? It's a charity... (0+ / 0-)

            Which I'm pretty sure means it's a non-profit.

            The Jamie Oliver Foundation is a registered charity whose mission is to ...

            I think Jamie Oliver had a lot of money before he started doing charity work... hence his ability to start a charity.

            What makes you think he' s only doing it for the money?

            Again... did you read the link?

            Fifteen is a restaurant group that uses the magic of food to give unemployed young people a chance to have a better future.
            Jamie started the Feed Me Better campaign, a petition to demand government intervention, funding and training for dinner ladies to address the problem.

            Jamie's Food Revolution combines the ambitions of both Jamie's Ministry of Food and Jamie's School Dinners and exists to tackle the obesity epidemic in America.

            The campaign seeks to educate people about food and cooking, address the quality of the food served in school lunch halls and inspire food retailers to provide good quality, fresh, local food to their customers.

            The campaign is funded solely by donations made from the USA.

            Are you arguing that the world would be a better place if the Jamie Oliver Foundation didn't do the things it does??  

            And since you're so insistent on his motives being profits... here is some more evidence contrary to that:

            By the end of 2001 Jamie needed a new challenge; he wanted to 'give something back' to the catering industry, so he decided to open a training restaurant for young people who were not in full time education or employment. Followed by cameras that documented his every move he spent the year setting up a training scheme, the restaurant and the charity into which all the profits would be channelled.
            Jamie's seventh book, Cook With Jamie was published in the UK in October 2006 and quickly became a massive best-seller. All of Jamie's profits from this book go to the Fifteen Foundation to help more young people to start a career in the catering industry.

            Gosh... he sounds like a total profit hound... worse than the big banks, huh??

            "The death penalty is never about the criminal. They've already done their worst. The question is always "will we join them"?" - jlynne

            by Hopeful Skeptic on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 11:31:10 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

  •  I've got nothing against protein. (7+ / 0-)

    But protein does not necessarily mean meat.

    Now admittedly, I'm a backslider - former multiyear vegetarian gone back to 'the dark side', but I still adore broccoli and other sources of non-meat protein.

    A site I stumbled across, btw - howmuchprotein.com

  •  I don't have a problem with vegetarians/vegans (7+ / 0-)

    I just hate when they bitch at somebody for eating meat. I understand that too much meat is bad for us, but humans are omnivores, and we have the ability to digest it; unlike corn, which we cannot digest. If you want to make the choice to eat vegetarian or vegan, more power to you. Just don't harp on me if I don't join you. I personally like meat, and try to eat white meat more than red, because it is supposed to be better for me

    •  What's worth focusing on (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Woody, FG

      is that the actual policy change is, very narrowly, a removal of a meat requirement at breakfast.  Doesn't mean they'll stop serving meat if that's what they want to serve, but that they don't have to offer meat at breakfast if nobody wants it.  I'm an unapologetic carnivore, and I'm cool with that.  

      Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

      by pico on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 05:03:17 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  the next generation will be in better health (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Hopeful Skeptic, SolarMom

      than our generation with education about healthy food.
      Shorten your lifespan all you want but don't do that to children.

      •  I'm not saying do it to the children (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kyril, erush1345

        I'm just saying to not go all crazy about it. I think its awesome that they are educating kids today to be smarter about their food choices, but I don't think it should go to the point of demonizing the eating of meat. I don't know if you eat meat or not (I'm guessing you don't by your diary), but going to the point of "meat is evil/bad" is just as bad a piece of propaganda as the meat industry doing the whole "protein=meat" thing. I do apologize in advance if I offend with the propaganda remark, but that is what it has always seemed like to me from numerous other vegetarians/vegans I have talked to about this

        •  our huge consumption of meat is at the (4+ / 0-)

          forefront of our chronic disease crisis and our environmental/climate change problems.
          It's become a very damaging and unnecessary habit especially for the US and other industrialized countries.

          I hear what you're saying though.  It's become a part of our culture and it's hard to change.

          •  I think equalityrules acknowledged that, (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            kyril, erush1345

            in the top of the thread: "too much meat is bad for us".  In moderation as part of a balanced diet, though, I have no problem with it.

            Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

            by pico on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 05:33:41 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  its more than culture (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            kyril, erush1345

            our ancestors hunted animals and ate the meat. Humans have all the biological tools needed to process and extract nutrients from meat. I do agree that we are consuming WAY too much of it, and that needs to be changed. I just propose we cut back on our consumption instead of completely cutting it out. Hunting is still used as a population control for some animals, namely deer. I'm not going to go into whether hunting is right or wrong because that is a whole different discussion.

            I do find it interesting that you bring up climate change, because one of the biggest producers of greenhouse gases is the flatuence and burping from cows. I'm just wondering what ideas you may have about what we should do about that

            •  obviously we should eat them. (0+ / 0-)

              then they won't burp and fart so much.

              remember, vegetables aren't food.

              vegetables are what food eats.

              No longer rating comments, thanks to a drunk fucktard moderator whose ass I will not kiss.

              by khereva on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 06:30:03 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  "vegetables aren't food" ? (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Hopeful Skeptic, SolarMom

                http://en.wikipedia.org/...

                Frederick Carlton "Carl" Lewis (born July 1, 1961) is an American former track and field athlete, who won 10 Olympic medals including 9 gold, and 10 World Championships medals, of which 8 were gold. His career spanned from 1979 when he first achieved a world ranking to 1996 when he last won an Olympic title and subsequently retired.
                His lifetime accomplishments have led to numerous accolades, including being voted "Sportsman of the Century" by the International Olympic Committee and being named "Olympian of the Century" by the American sports magazine Sports Illustrated.

                http://www.earthsave.org/...

                In the spring of 1991 – eight months after beginning to eat vegan – I was feeling listless and thought I might need to add protein from meat to my diet. Dr. McDougall, however, explained that my listlessness was due to my needing more calories because I was training so many hours each day, not because I needed more animal-based protein. When I increased my calorie intake, I regained my energy. I was drinking 24 to 32 ounces of juice a day. I ate no dairy products. And I had my best year as an athlete ever!

                "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

                by indycam on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 07:35:57 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

    •  Eh ? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Hopeful Skeptic
      ...corn, which we cannot digest...

      "Nutritive Value of Foods, Home and Garden Bulletin No. 72"
      http://www.ars.usda.gov/...
      Pg 78

      "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

      by indycam on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 05:38:39 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  pardon the nastiness (0+ / 0-)

        but have you ever seen corn kernels in your....well.....poop? lol
        our systems cannot process it and that is why it is passed through the system. we can get some nutrients from it, but not many. I guess I should have said we cannot fully digest it. my mistake

        •  We can and do digest it very well . (3+ / 0-)

          It is a staple food .

          http://www.sciencedaily.com/...

          Earliest Signs Of Corn As Staple Food Found After Spreading South From Mexican Homeland
          ScienceDaily (Mar. 24, 2008) — Corn has long been known as the primary food crop in prehistoric North and Central America. Now it appears it may have been an important part of the South American diet for much longer than previously thought, according to new research by University of Calgary archaeologists who are cobbling together the ancient history of plant domestication in the New World.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/...

          The domestication of maize is of particular interest to researchers — archaeologists, geneticists, ethnobotanists, geographers, etc. The process is thought by some to have started 7,500 to 12,000 years ago.
          Perhaps as early as 1500 BC, maize began to spread widely and rapidly. As it was introduced to new cultures, new uses were developed and new varieties selected to better serve in those preparations. Maize was the staple food, or a major staple (along with squash, Andean region potato, quinoa, beans, and amaranth), of most pre-Columbian North American, Mesoamerican, South American, and Caribbean cultures.

          "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

          by indycam on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 06:44:56 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  hmmm....well.... (0+ / 0-)

            perhaps I misunderstood my professor then. She told us that our system were unable to process it into the sugars our body use for energy. it's possible she was misinformed, as this was in a chemistry class, or it's possible that she wasn't misinformed and I simply misunderstood it to mean we can't process it at all

        •  Yes. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Hopeful Skeptic

          If I don't chew the corn, then I see the kernels.  That's why it's best to chew food before swallowing.

          "Politics should be the part-time profession of every citizen who would protect the rights and privileges of free people and who would preserve what is good and fruitful in our national heritage." -- Lucille Ball

          by Yamaneko2 on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 07:47:57 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Meat eaters do likewise (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Woody, Hopeful Skeptic

      I have heard from meat eaters at many, many different family events and other occasions.  I have heard them tell me all about their meat and how awesome it is, and about how I'm evil for killing plants, and yadayadayada.  

      The vegetarians get harassed, believe me.   Even if I don't say anything, and I usually don't.  Someone else brings it up.  

      I want my pajamas to be covered in words from Bartlett's. That way I'll always be sleeping in quotes.

      by otto on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 06:20:56 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I realize that happens too (0+ / 0-)

        and I apologize on their behalf if that helps. Ive heard the killing plants line, and while it is funny at first, it's just plain weird to say that. I don't see why we can't let other people be when it comes to this. I'll choose to eat what I eat, you choose to eat what you eat, and we leave it at that

        •  Your diet impacts others . (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Hopeful Skeptic

          Your diet has a much greater carbon foot print .
          Your diet has a much greater water foot print .
          Etc etc etc .

          "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

          by indycam on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 07:40:17 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  that right there is what I'm talking about (0+ / 0-)

            I get that it has a higher impact, but 1. you can't change everybody's mind, and 2. how many other things create a big foot print? Technology should be dropped until we are on completely clean energy, because right now its mostly on coal, which causes greenhouse gases. we should all stop driving until we have completely electric cars, or hydrogen fuel cells, etc.

            I get we all need to pitch in, but good luck getting America to do it, let alone the rest of the world. I hate to say it, but its a losing battle to fight. All we can do is change ourselves, and give others the facts and other info/research to back up our opinions and stances. Ultimately, the only people we have control over our ourselves. And yes, I do realize how cynical that is, but its how I see it

            •  "All we can do is change ourselves" (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Hopeful Skeptic

              Are you going to chose to have a smaller carbon / water / etc etc etc foot print ? Don't pretend its up to others . Going veggie is the biggest thing you can do right now .

              I get we all need to pitch in
              Are you going to pitch in ?
              I hate to say it, but its a losing battle to fight.
              Only if people refuse to pitch in .

              "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

              by indycam on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 08:13:23 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  I pitch in where I can (0+ / 0-)

                but no, I am not going to go vegetarian. I like meat, and I realize that humans were meant to eat it. If we weren't, we would have evolved to have teeth like other herbivores. If I see definitive proof that we can get EVERY nutrient we need from plants, then I'll go vegetarian. Until that time, I will continue to pitch in by conserving energy, recycling, and trying to make my family's house green when I have the money to spare.

                •  Cool ! (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Hopeful Skeptic, otto
                  If I see definitive proof that we can get EVERY nutrient we need from plants, then I'll go vegetarian
                  http://www.dailykos.com/...

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/...

                  Frederick Carlton "Carl" Lewis (born July 1, 1961) is an American former track and field athlete, who won 10 Olympic medals including 9 gold, and 10 World Championships medals, of which 8 were gold. His career spanned from 1979 when he first achieved a world ranking to 1996 when he last won an Olympic title and subsequently retired.
                  His lifetime accomplishments have led to numerous accolades, including being voted "Sportsman of the Century" by the International Olympic Committee and being named "Olympian of the Century" by the American sports magazine Sports Illustrated.

                  http://www.earthsave.org/...

                  In the spring of 1991 – eight months after beginning to eat vegan – I was feeling listless and thought I might need to add protein from meat to my diet. Dr. McDougall, however, explained that my listlessness was due to my needing more calories because I was training so many hours each day, not because I needed more animal-based protein. When I increased my calorie intake, I regained my energy. I was drinking 24 to 32 ounces of juice a day. I ate no dairy products. And I had my best year as an athlete ever!

                  The  "Sportsman of the Century"/"Olympian of the Century" won 9 gold Olympic medals , 8 gold World Championships medals on a vegan diet . That proves that a vegan diet can provide everything needed .

                   

                  "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

                  by indycam on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 08:41:26 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  one person does not definitve proof make (0+ / 0-)

                    show me scientific and peer reviewed research. Also, provide how much the average vegetarian and/or vegan spends on their diet. From the people I know, they spend a lot to get the amount of vegetables needed to give them the right amount of nutrients, and some of them still had to take supplements to get what their body needed. I would also like an explanation as to why this article, with citations, claims vegetarians only live at most a few years longer

                    http://www.lef.org/...

                    this one, from a vegetarian group, claims at most 1-2 years extra, and that those extra years are most attributable to non-dietary factors

                    http://www.oxveg.veggroup.org/...

                    •  Ha ! (0+ / 0-)

                      You want more proof than , 17 gold metals and "Sportsman of the Century"/"Olympian of the Century" ?
                      Nothing will ever prove to you more than real world results .

                      peer reviewed research
                      He beat everyone else on the planet , there is your "peer reviewed"

                      The fact that he beat everyone else proves a vegan diet works . Its just that simple .

                      As far as teeth go , check them canines !
                      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/...
                      http://en.wikipedia.org/...

                      Mountain gorillas mostly eat foliage such as leaves, stems, pith, and shoots of terrestrial herbaceous vegetation. High quality, high protein, low fiber, and low tannin foods from certain species are preferred and fruit makes up a very small part of their diet.[20] Bamboo is also a favored food item and gorillas will spend much time digging to unearth the tender shoots. Little competition exists between mountain gorilla groups for resources since they rely on food that is readily available and easily accessed.
                      Lowland gorillas have a more diverse diet. The diet of the eastern lowland gorilla varies seasonally. Leaves and pith are staples of their diet but they also eat fruits when they are available and fruits can make up as much as 25% of their diet. Since fruit is relatively scarce, gorillas must travel farther each day and have home ranges that vary from 2.7–6.5 km2 (1.04 to 2.51 mi2) with day ranges 154–2280 m (0.096–1.42 mi). Eastern lowland gorillas will also eat insects, preferably ants.[21] Western lowland gorillas do not have much access to high quality terrestrial herbs, although some areas in their range are rich in aquatic herbs. These gorillas depend on fruits more than the others and they are more dispersed across their range.[22] Western lowland gorillas travel the farthest of the gorillas and have the largest home ranges. They travel 1105 m (0.687 mi) per day on average and have home ranges 7–14 km2 (2.70–5.41 mi2).[22] Termites and ants also are a staple of the western lowland gorilla’s diet.

                      "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

                      by indycam on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 09:16:18 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  yes, I do (0+ / 0-)

                        because one guy does not make an entire lifestyle viable. You also have not made any comments as to the 3 articles I provided that show that its no more healthy than watching how much meat one eats

                        •  My wife, myself, and both of my kids (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          beach babe in fl

                          I have two kids.  Both of them are super smart, and both of them are super healthy.  

                          My 14 year old son plays multiple competitive sports.  

                          I myself have been vegetarian for the last 15 years, and prior to that I was off and on for the previous 10 years.  

                          It's amazing that anyone would even think that a human can't get all of their nutrients through a plant based diet.  

                          Of course you can.  

                          I want my pajamas to be covered in words from Bartlett's. That way I'll always be sleeping in quotes.

                          by otto on Thu Feb 02, 2012 at 07:36:22 AM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                  •  and there's this one (0+ / 0-)

                    from a German Cancer Institute (the article is in english)

                    http://www.dkfz.de/...

                    •  So if a little meat does not shorten your life (0+ / 0-)

                      its ok ? What about the carbon / water etc etc etc foot print ? Why not have a smaller footprint that will impact others less ?

                      "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

                      by indycam on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 09:22:08 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                        •  ... (0+ / 0-)
                          I realize that humans were meant to eat it.

                          "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

                          by indycam on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 09:33:28 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  ... (0+ / 0-)

                            the end of the comment

                            Until that time, I will continue to pitch in by conserving energy, recycling, and trying to make my family's house green when I have the money to spare.
                          •  If you really want to (0+ / 0-)

                            make your "family's house green" ,
                            the cheapest and fastest way is to go veggie .
                            It will cost you nothing and you can do it today .

                            "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

                            by indycam on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 09:44:43 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  how do you figure it costs nothing? (0+ / 0-)

                            and did you even read those articles? all you're doing is regurgitating the same argument, which is no different from what the Rupubs and conservatives do. at least beach babe could see my point of view, which you refuse to do. you, and people like you, are one of the reasons I will not go vegetarian. I refuse to be associated with people that come off as arrogant and believe they are better than everybody else that doesn't eat just vegetables. its the same attitude as the christians that firebomb clinics, just without the violence

                          •  Are you saying a veggie diet costs more ? (0+ / 0-)
                            you, and people like you, are one of the reasons I will not go vegetarian.
                            You use me as an excuse , it has nothing to do with me , you just are looking for an excuse . You are not wanting to change and you externalize your unwillingness on others . Don't blame anyone else for your unwillingness . That's all on you .

                            "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

                            by indycam on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 09:58:10 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                        •  ... (0+ / 0-)
                          I get that it has a higher impact

                          "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

                          by indycam on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 09:36:03 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  if you're going to blockquote (0+ / 0-)

                            don't pick and choose to make me sound bad and make you sound better

                            I get that it has a higher impact, but 1. you can't change everybody's mind, and 2. how many other things create a big foot print? Technology should be dropped until we are on completely clean energy, because right now its mostly on coal, which causes greenhouse gases. we should all stop driving until we have completely electric cars, or hydrogen fuel cells, etc.

                            Thats using your own logic that we should make the smallest foot print possible

                          •  If you are interested in any of those things (0+ / 0-)

                            go veggie now . Don't wait for something else . Do it now .
                            Clean energy ? Go Veggie .
                            Greenhouse gases ? Go Veggie .
                            Pollution ? Go Veggie .
                            Etc etc etc .

                            Your arguments are for doing nothing until something is done .

                            Do something , Do it now . Don't wait for something else , Do it now .

                            Its easy , you can do it right now .

                            "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

                            by indycam on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 09:53:01 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  ......ok, I'm done feeding the troll (0+ / 0-)

                            I thought you were serious until this post. how does me eating vegetarian cut down pollution (which includes greenhouse gases), let alone make clean energy?

                             you sir, are a troll, and I applaud for stringing me along this far. now kindly go and troll another diary. or don't. I don't care, I'm done feeding you

                          •  Ah , you have nothing more that the "troll" insult (0+ / 0-)

                            you haven't got what it takes so you go for the insults .
                            Poor you .

                            how does me eating vegetarian cut down pollution (which includes greenhouse gases), let alone make clean energy?
                            Ah , you are not up on whats what ! A veggie diet is far less polluting , read Beach Babes diaries , she has documented it . A veggie diet is far less dependent on energy production , far less pollution is produced . A veggie diet produces far less global warming gases . Go read up Beach Babes diaries , its all there .

                            Or if you like you could read her submission to the U.N.    
                            http://climatecolab.org/...

                            Pitch
                            Mitigate climate change by a rapid reduction of the short lived warming gases by advocating for less meat consumption globally
                            Body
                            Summary

                            To mitigate climate change by proposing reduced meat consumption globally in order to bring a rapid reduction of the short lived warming gases including: Black Carbon(soot), Methane and Ground Level Ozone.  This can be achieved by education through the already successful Meatless Monday, Meatfree Monday, Brighter Green and other global organizations.  This proposal requires no financing and no government consensus.  It requires only public education which can be achieved through non-profit entities.

                            "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

                            by indycam on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 10:10:17 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  fine (0+ / 0-)

                            I'm not going to convince you, and you're not going to convince me. You do what you do, I'll do what I do. You do come off as trolling when you make claims and wait until somebody asks to give explanations. Those reasons should have been given in your original comment, because without them it sounds a little ridiculous.

                            I'm not going vegetarian because I do not agree with it and I like to eat meat. I know it may put me at higher risk, but thats a chance I'm willing to take.

                            Agree to disagree?

                          •  You are not informed so I am trolling ? (0+ / 0-)

                            You are going with that ? Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha !

                            No facts can change your mind !
                            You are making a choice in the face of the facts .

                            but thats a chance I'm willing to take.
                            The choice you make impacts everyone .

                            "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

                            by indycam on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 10:25:30 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  you are also making a choice in face of the facts (0+ / 0-)

                            I provided several links that show your lifestyle is no more healthy than watching what you eat.

                            I have been mostly civil through this, while you have shown the arrogance that seems to be typical of vegetarians. not saying they all are like this, but in my experience a lot are. you want to change peoples minds? stop acting like you're better than them. I'm done. I will continue to follow research, and do what I can with the means I have. I hope you can learn to stop being so conceited and be civil, as that will help your case quite a bit. Its not just the message, but also how it is delivered

                          •  "Troll" is civil ? (0+ / 0-)

                            Good luck claiming the high ground .
                            Your arrogance is typical of people who can't face facts .
                            You don't want to see whats been shown to you , you don't wish to see whats what , you want to be unchanged , you lash out . I've seen it all to often in people like you . Par for the course . You have offered nothing new .

                            I hope you can learn to stop being so conceited and be civil, as that will help your case quite a bit.
                            Says the person who flung the insult "troll" ? Your horse has a ladder ?
                            Its not just the message, but also how it is delivered
                            Look at your own style , then get back to me .

                            "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

                            by indycam on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 10:40:02 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I apologize for the troll comment (0+ / 0-)

                            I am tired, and thus irritable. I should probably head to bed. again, I apologize, and I hope you accept it. I'm done with the insults. if you wish to keep going, I won't be answering for a while, if I do at all. I know now its futile to continue this because you are set in your facts, and I am set in mine. the fact we both have facts that back us up should say something in and of itself. I wish you a good night and pleasant dreams

                          •  Please (0+ / 0-)

                            You have done nothing here.  

                            This is a ridiculous thread of comments.  You have been shown that a vegetarian diet is easier on the environment, you don't care.  You have been shown that a vegetarian can get all of their nutrients form plant sources, you don't care.  

                            As I read through your comments, it's clear that you don't have a problem with being vegetarian.  You have a problem with vegetarians.  

                            That's a ridiculously immature reason to take your stand.  

                            If, however, you just want to say that you'd prefer to eat some meat, just say that.  

                            You don't have to blame it on anyone.  You also don't need to feel guilty about it.  It's your choice, and you should be comfortable with it.  

                            You shouldn't blame someone else for your choice.  

                            It's so transparent to read through this thread and see how your argument is about the people who are vegetarians, and not about the diet.  

                            1.  Is it true that less meat eating is better for the environment?  Yes.  It reduces the need for livestock to have open spaces for grazing.  Trees don't need to be cut down.  When trees are cut down, habitat is destroyed.  Waterways suffer when their tree canopy is cut down.  The diversity of animal life, a key to the environment, is cut down when the tree canopy is cut down.  I could go on.

                            2.  Is it true that you can get all of your nutrients from a plant based diet?  Yes.  You've been shown that.  There are entire cultural diets that are plant based. I have told you how I've raised two kids as complete and total vegetarians.  They think the idea of killing an animal for food is ludicrous.  

                            I'm able to make these choices, because I have options in my area.  You may not.  You many not have the options.  I don't know.  That's your problem.  

                            Just don't pretend that you have any other reason than that you want to eat meat.  Just don't blame it on people who have already made their choice about their diet.  Don't try to wiggle out of it with your argument about a meatless diet being just as healthy as a diet in which you watch your food closely.  

                            It's silly.  It's beneath someone who wishes to make informed judgements.

                            I want my pajamas to be covered in words from Bartlett's. That way I'll always be sleeping in quotes.

                            by otto on Thu Feb 02, 2012 at 07:46:09 AM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Ha ! (0+ / 0-)
                            without them it sounds a little ridiculous.
                            Everything you say sounds very ridiculous to me , are you a troll ? You said corn was undigestible without any proof , does that make you a troll ?
                            By your thinking , you are a troll , you
                            make claims and wait until somebody asks to give explanations
                            are you willing to out yourself as a troll ?

                            "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

                            by indycam on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 10:30:48 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  if you look, I admitted to my mistake (0+ / 0-)
                          •  She went and was selected to present her (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            otto

                            knowledge to the U.N . She gave her talk to the U.N. after being selected as the best by the judges .

                            I'm done feeding you
                            You didn't feed , you sucked . You thought corn was not nutritious , you thought corn was undigestible , this is not a subject you have studied , you are ill-equipped to judge who is and who is not informed or who is or is not a troll .

                            "Drop the name-calling." Meteor Blades 2/4/11

                            by indycam on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 10:19:41 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

  •  Take THAT, you negligent parents! (0+ / 0-)
    The school lunch program is at the forefront of the uphill battle to feed kids well in this country,...
  •  Ugh. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Brooke In Seattle, erush1345

    I don't even like breakfast "meat," but I dislike state dietary indoctrination of poor children more.

    "If you have the money, you can go ahead and have bacon and eggs at home with your family. Oh, you're poor? Hope you like whole wheat toast."

    "Let’s just move on, treat everybody with firmness, fairness, dignity, compassion and respect. Let’s be Marines." - Sgt. Maj Michael Barrett on DADT repeal

    by kyril on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 05:33:13 PM PST

    •  the kids having the whole wheat toast will (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      otto, SolarMom

      probably be healthier and live longer.

    •  If the federal govt is involved in ed (4+ / 0-)

      It is a necessity that they issue guidelines like this.  

      It's a simple requirement, because schools need to have guidance for developing their lunch programs.  

      Kids who get breakfast at school are usually kids who get two somewhat healthy meals a day.  They are both at school.  That's paid for by federal dollars, because the kids are on free and reduced lunch.  

      Guildelines must exist.  

      School breakfast can actually be pretty tasty.  And most people don't cook a full breakfast for their kids at home.  The school breakfast is comparable to a weekday breakfast for a typical household in my area.

      I want my pajamas to be covered in words from Bartlett's. That way I'll always be sleeping in quotes.

      by otto on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 06:26:57 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Indoctrination? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Hopeful Skeptic, SolarMom

      All the guidelines state is that meat and need not be offered every time that school breakfasts are served.  

      Of course, maybe I was indoctrinated when my high school served bacon and/or sausage each and every day, while my family's practice was never to eat meat at breakfast.  Breakfast was cereal and milk, or just maybe pancakes or Pop-tarts with milk.  Meat twice per day was quite enough.

      "Politics should be the part-time profession of every citizen who would protect the rights and privileges of free people and who would preserve what is good and fruitful in our national heritage." -- Lucille Ball

      by Yamaneko2 on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 08:09:10 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  That's just wrong (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Hopeful Skeptic

      Most cultures don't serve meat at breakfast.  Mine doesn't.  My mom gave me breakfast every morning as a kid, and we could afford meat. But it would never have occurred to her to serve it.

      Kids will still get eggs, cheese (probably cheese toast), milk, cereal, pancakes, etc. at school.  This is not picking on poor kids.

      “Better the occasional faults of a government that lives in a spirit of charity than the consistent omissions of a government frozen in the ice of its own indifference.” -- FDR, 1936

      by SolarMom on Wed Feb 01, 2012 at 10:21:46 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Mine doesn't either (0+ / 0-)

        Breakfast for us involves pastry of some sort. Which I'm sure is also unacceptable to the food police. Oh no! The kids might be exposed to a sucrose molecule!

        "Let’s just move on, treat everybody with firmness, fairness, dignity, compassion and respect. Let’s be Marines." - Sgt. Maj Michael Barrett on DADT repeal

        by kyril on Thu Feb 02, 2012 at 03:31:00 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  In other words (0+ / 0-)

        I'm not at all disturbed by the idea of a meat-free breakfast. Frankly, the idea of meat for breakfast makes me somewhat nauseous (in fact, the entire American breakfast menu makes me a little nauseous). What bothers me is this diary cheering the idea that poor kids shouldn't get to have meat for breakfast.

        "Let’s just move on, treat everybody with firmness, fairness, dignity, compassion and respect. Let’s be Marines." - Sgt. Maj Michael Barrett on DADT repeal

        by kyril on Thu Feb 02, 2012 at 03:43:51 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Great post, beach babe! (3+ / 0-)

    I am just excited that our president isn't telling our kids that ketchup is a vegetable. :) Basic standards for school lunches is a good thing as there are many kids in which that IS their healthiest meal.  

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