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With the Republican presidential primary fiasco in progress, I have discovered that a lot of fun can be found over at Redstate. The sheer agony that they are going through is nothing short of delightful. Their world is coming apart and they are moving toward the epiphany that this country is NOT really conservative.

Today, there is an diary up there that I urge everyone here to read in its entirety.  It is What Conservatives Really Believe by Toby Calvert-Lee.  It is actually a fairly accurate articulation of their positions and we are well served to read and fully understand it.

I will copy small parts of it and begin the analysis and counterpoint below the fold.  I hope others will join in on the fun.  The sheer hypocrisy in this article is completely over-the-top.

As Conservatives, we understand that the nuclear family of a
single man and a single wife, bonded in holy matrimony in order to rear the
next generation, is the cornerstone of a healthy society, a healthy economy,
and ordered liberty. Without a strong family, the next generation will cease to
be contributing members of society, and our nation will descend into the same
abyss that most of the rest of the world finds itself in today.
So, in other words, if you do not have one father and one mother you are destined to not contribute (positively) to society.  I guess that explains why Obama is such a disaster.  Everything makes sense now.

Here we also see the argument against homosexual led families. Apparently a society with large numbers of same-sex couples will lead to an unhealthy economy.  So, do you same-sex couples not buy anything? How is it that being of the same-sex and raising a family you can get by without consuming very much?

And it's got to be "holy matrimony." Wow!!  We obviously need to outlaw marriage by Justices of the Peace.  I mean, that is state sponsored matrimony that is not "holy."

And the rest of the world is an abyss. I didn't know that.

The name of Conservatism has been dragged through the mud by
the left and the elite, who look down on these values that define our movement
and our country.
No Toby, you are doing an excellent job of diving headfirst into that muddy cesspool of bigotry and unwarranted hatred all by yourself.
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Comment Preferences

  •  I'm gay and I buy stuff. (27+ / 0-)

    Therefore I am moral. Oh, and I am raising a kid. Yeah, I sometimes shudder to think what kind of contributor to society The Kid will be, but don't all parents (and aunts and uncles) have the same fears?

    Listen up, guys! It turns out that if we don't hurry up and change the world, later it's the world that changes us. --Mafalda

    by forester on Sat Feb 25, 2012 at 11:13:23 AM PST

  •  It just never occurs to them that (22+ / 0-)

    people do know what they believe and stand for and reject it. That it's not the messenger, real (their candidates) or bogeymen ( the elite media ) but the message.

    I understand exactly what conservatives stand for and I disagree with it, and reject it.  

    We view "The Handmaid's Tale" as cautionary. The GOP views it as an instruction book.

    by Vita Brevis on Sat Feb 25, 2012 at 11:22:14 AM PST

  •  Ok, I read it. It was fucking hilarious... (6+ / 0-)

    Thanks for the laugh. I needed that.

    "We're right in the middle of a fucking reptile zoo! And somebody's giving booze to these goddamn things!"-Hunter S. Thompson ;-)>

    by rogerdaddy on Sat Feb 25, 2012 at 11:23:05 AM PST

  •  Well, I DID have one father and one mother though (16+ / 0-)

    these were fourth and third marriages, respectively, and the daddy-o decided to leave so was raised by a single parent.

    I have been a productive member of society.  But that probably doesn't figure into their equation at all.

    In fact, both my parents didn't really do anything productive socially for the world while they were alive. They were rooted in a different philosophy entirely. I was different.

    Unless one considers my dad's Manhattan Project work productive and the various munition types that he ultimately designed to brutally kill "productive". I don't.

    202-224-3121 to Congress in D.C. USE it! You can tell how big a person is by what it takes to discourage them. "We're not perfect, but they're nuts."--Barney Frank 01/02/2012

    by cany on Sat Feb 25, 2012 at 11:23:24 AM PST

    •  Manhattan project, eh? :) (4+ / 0-)

      Mine was the first in his family to attend college, a little later vintage than yours was. (This was in the Sputnik era.) Physics major. Got a fellowship to an acclaimed grad school in his field, and ended up in a good livelihood for many years, from which he has just retired.

      Let's just say, none of the academic or professional attainment helped the guy much in the personality department :) A therapist I saw a few years ago pointed out that physicists' and chemists' children tended to have the roughest childhoods of just about anybody.

      Based on first-hand experience, and on anecdotal information available to me, I'd say this was spot-on.

      It's here they got the range/ and the machinery for change/ and it's here they got the spiritual thirst. --Leonard Cohen

      by karmsy on Sat Feb 25, 2012 at 11:58:23 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Beg to differ. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        karmsy, historys mysteries

        I'd say engineers' kids rival those of any other profession.

        "These are not candidates. These are the empty stand-ins for lobbyists' policies to be legislated later." - Chimpy, 9/24/10

        by NWTerriD on Sat Feb 25, 2012 at 12:14:35 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  My stepdad used to declare: (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        karmsy, historys mysteries

        "Teachers and preachers; the one thing they have in common is that their kids aren't worth a damn."

        As in functioning adults.

        I'm actually working again, on a contract basis, with a 503 (c)3 nonprofit agency that serves minority and special-needs populations with their health insurance needs. I've found my calling. I hope this becomes a permanent job. Please wish me luck!

        by ozsea1 on Sat Feb 25, 2012 at 01:09:48 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Wrong "sheer" and (5+ / 0-)

    the past tense of "lead" is "led."

    I was hoping for so much more from redstate, but I guess empty suits are, nevertheless, empty.

    Thanks for looking, so we don't have to.

  •  LOL Redstate. Top of the Rec List (12+ / 0-)

    Can Santorum Win the White House?

    From the diary:

    Yes, certainly, he is electable


    by voracious on Sat Feb 25, 2012 at 11:46:49 AM PST

  •  I'm glad I know that stuff (7+ / 0-)

    about the heterosexual family now :) thank to this brilliant analysis. I never woulda thought lbgt families could be worse, on average.

    It's here they got the range/ and the machinery for change/ and it's here they got the spiritual thirst. --Leonard Cohen

    by karmsy on Sat Feb 25, 2012 at 11:47:33 AM PST

  •  And yet, if you ask them (35+ / 0-)

    why they do not fight to outlaw divorce and criminalize adultery, which is a far bigger threat to the nuclear family than gay people choosing to honor the concept and kindly help to preserve it by joining in it and giving traditional marriage it's biggest statistical boost in ages, they suddenly look... kinda fucked up and then just totally confused.

    It's really simple, and really inconvenient:

    You, Mr. Straight White Football-Loving He-Man, fucking Mrs. Milligan next door on the down-low is a bigger blow to marriage as an institution than Todd and Sam getting married and living in faithful monogamy.
    You being married and divorced 4 times is not like mortar holding up the great monolith either.
    Anything Britney Spears and do, and have annulled in 48 hours, in Vegas with her high school buddy as a joke is not a sacred institution.
    What really pisses off the Movement Conservative Right is that they had a narrative about gay people:

    "They are socially and sexually promiscuous, reckless, and irresponsible spreaders of disease who only care about sex and having a good time."

    Gay people lining up to go about getting married and embracing the nuclear family concept is the greatest threat to that sort of hateful bullshit as possible.

    The weird thing about Movement Conservative Manifestos is how self-refuting they are when you look at actual Movement Conservatives in real life.

    How many of these guys are viciously anti-gay, but when they go to the Republican National Convention in Tampa are going to be looking for some male escort to bump and blow them in their hotel room?

    How many are 'fierce defenders of traditional marriage' but are going to scanning the yellow pagers looking to pay some hooker a nice chunk of change to beat them up or pee on them in the room next door to the guy looking for Jeff Gannon 2.0?

    Kind of hard to even get started on the whole economics and 'standing up to evil' stuff.

    It's just not serious. The Shah of Iran was a darling of the Right. Every fingernail or tooth ripped out with a pair of pliers by the SAVAK was probably funded by, or excused by, the Right. Pinochet. The Spanish fascists. Don't lecture me about how you "Stand up to evil" and liberals don't. The Death Squads in El Salvador were trained thanks to funding and policies put in place by the "standing up to evil" Right.

    Rick Santorum lectures us about "tort reform" and rails about 'trial lawyers' then sues his doctor for 'pain and suffering' that he describes as non-existent to totally exaggerated when it's somebody else's pain via a trial lawyer he'd be spitting at a week before.

    I am from the Elizabeth Warren wing of the Democratic Party

    by LeftHandedMan on Sat Feb 25, 2012 at 11:48:18 AM PST

  •  They're So Santimonious And Arrogant, That They (9+ / 0-)

    can't accept the possibility that others see through their nonsense.

    What about widows/widowers? Orphans left after their parent(s) die?  There have always been families headed by other than their idealized and false "norm."  And they know this.  They are just searching for paper-thin rationalizations to cover their immoral and socially destructive selfishness.

    Their beliefs are nothing more than pompous bluffing that opponents have for the last few decades been too polite/compromised/muzzled or indifferent to call out.  

    Hopefully, sunlight will disinfect this contrived scourge soon.

  •  Here's the supreme irony, though (13+ / 0-)

    They purport to be so concerned about the future and yet they gleefully ridicule environmentalists.  Even if you accept that some concerns about the environment may not have panned out over the years, if you're truly "conservative," wouldn't you always err on the side of doing whatever it takes to make sure that future generations will have a sutainable planet??

    I get that the Bible tells them to hate the gays, treat women like crap, and so on., but what is conservative about trashing the environment, denying global warming, etc.?

    •  Cuz we're supposed to exercise dominion (7+ / 0-)

      over the earth and all its creatures for the good of man, not let the earth be more important than man. Haven't you been paying attention to "Bible Studies with Rick Sanctimonium"?

      "These are not candidates. These are the empty stand-ins for lobbyists' policies to be legislated later." - Chimpy, 9/24/10

      by NWTerriD on Sat Feb 25, 2012 at 12:19:01 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  The Bible says that Jesus is coming back (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Darmok, FarWestGirl

      in your lifetime*. Then all the righteous get to go to heaven and the rest of us can go to hell. It is sort of like living in a hotel room somebody else is paying for. You might as well trash it and have a good time.

      * Jesus said this almost 2000 years ago, so whoever he was talking to has beaten Methuselah two times over so far. Maybe it was the Mediterranean sea grass, which has just been discovered to be the oldest known living thing on earth. Won't it be a shock for the fundamentalists to find out Jesus was just intending to stop by to get some new turf for the heavenly lawn and expected humans to take care of the planet?

      "But you said..."

  •  The problem with their thinking (15+ / 0-)

    is that they have so many unarticulated and unexamined assumptions.

    Yes, we all agree that strong families who raise their children to be good citizens are a good thing for our society. But where is the connection between that principle and the insistence that the adults who raise the child have to be: (1) married, (2) of different genders, and (3) exactly two in number?

    It's like conversations I used to have teaching kindergartners:

    "Why did you hit her?"
    "Because she took my crayon!"

    My first task in that situation was to help them recognize their unarticulated assumption that their only choice when someone does something mean to them is to hit back. I needed to first educate them about the fact that it is possible to respond differently -- that hitting is one possible choice, not the only choice.  Then we could discuss which response would be best for a particular situation.

    We need to help conservatives see that their image of "family" is one option for what a strong family looks like, not the only option. It continues to be the case that once people see what a loving same-sex couple looks like, and see children rasied by strong loving parents who are not a traditional one man-one woman couple united by holy matrimony, minds will open.

    "These are not candidates. These are the empty stand-ins for lobbyists' policies to be legislated later." - Chimpy, 9/24/10

    by NWTerriD on Sat Feb 25, 2012 at 12:11:03 PM PST

  •  Just to be clear, (7+ / 0-)

    "matrimony" is a religious sacrament.  "Marriage" is the contract officially recognized by the state.  I know because I can't have either and I looked it up.  Any house of worship in America can confer matrimony if it wishes, but only marriage actually counts in the eyes of the law.  This is the purpose of going to the courthouse and acquiring the marriage license...

    When do I get to vote on your marriage?

    by jarhead5536 on Sat Feb 25, 2012 at 12:35:49 PM PST

  •  Santorum is a rabid supporter of Israel (6+ / 0-)

    but ignores that so many Israelis were raised in kibbutzes.  Most turned out quite well adjusted because they could hang their identity on their kibbutz and not on parents they rarely saw because of work and national service obligations.  I suppose Santorum's thinking would require all married troops who are parents to be expelled from the military so they can carry out their duties to their offspring.  Rick, you're a desperate and neurotic guy.  Get well soon.

    •  Not to mention that whole (4+ / 0-)

      women serving equally in the Israeli military inconvenient truth Ricky overlooks. Then there's that universal healthcare thing.

      We view "The Handmaid's Tale" as cautionary. The GOP views it as an instruction book.

      by Vita Brevis on Sat Feb 25, 2012 at 01:45:43 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Israel sure, but Jews go to hell unless they (0+ / 0-)

      accept Jesus as their savior
      Israel gains right wing christian religious importance due to  tie to their end times vision, the big battle and all

      rick is so into this battle between good and evil he is likely all into that as well

      I mock but hey they say he was called as many other repubs claimed.
      If God gets involved in politics it might be true. What better way to shake us more firmly awake than to have the extreme of the party reveal themselves so clearly and stupidly?

  •  Well I guess Reagan's multiple marriages (9+ / 0-)

    really fucked up this Country. Right? Right?

    Come on you self proclaimed "Conservatives" what you REALLY care about is the deficit and spending. Right?

    So Reagan's multiple marriages  and the fact that the US Federal Debt as a percent of GDP EXPLODED under his presidency are what destroyed America. Right? Right?

    "Converts are the worst bigots." -- Max Headroom

    by jethrock on Sat Feb 25, 2012 at 12:39:17 PM PST

  •  The Clintons stayed married, and the economy did (5+ / 0-)

    very well.  The Obamas have stayed married, and the economy is turning around.  I am thinking we should stay with the married couple we have in the White House now.

    A Wall Street "bonus" should not be more than what my house is worth.

    by bushondrugs on Sat Feb 25, 2012 at 12:46:41 PM PST

  •  Can I believe my eyes and ears? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    nuketeacher, googie

    After almost thirty years of progressive activism, am I FINALLY seeing the Republican push itself so far to the right that it ceases to be relevant to anyone?  Oh glad and joyous day!  

    When do I get to vote on your marriage?

    by jarhead5536 on Sat Feb 25, 2012 at 01:06:26 PM PST

    •  I Think It Has Been There a Long Time Already... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jarhead5536, Agent99

      but I think they are finally managing to convince most of the public of that truth.

      What we are seeing of course is the break up of the marriaage that Ronald Reagan performed in 1980 between the fiscal conservatives and the social conservatives.  As often occurs in marriage, both groups developed a degree of sympathy for the other's positions on things.

      We need to help both groups realize just how much the other group really doesn't care about their priorities (any more - if they ever did).  As with all divorces it will be ugly for them.  They are rapidly beginning to hate each other.  The fiscal conservatives have actually hated their social conservative brethren for years but they have tolerated them for their votes.

      When insects are able to write history they will trace the extinction of the human race to approx. 300 votes in Florida in the human year of 2000 AD.

      by nuketeacher on Sat Feb 25, 2012 at 01:49:23 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Oh yes. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        The social conservatives, i.e. blue collar whites, have been the loyal foot soldiers for the RNC for over thirty years.  They have worked the phones, knocked on doors, and hung signs for an entire generation in hopes that Morning In America would actually come for them.  They so fervently believe that they are literally doing the Lord's Work that they ignored the real mission of the RNC, which is to return America to the Gilded Age.  They have loyally, consistently voted against their own economic interests for so long that they don't believe anyone can do anything for them anymore, hence the rise of the TEA Party...

        When do I get to vote on your marriage?

        by jarhead5536 on Sat Feb 25, 2012 at 02:12:10 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    Recommended by:

    i'm glad he straightened that out.

    This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and partisan lying by broadcasting sports on Limbaugh radio stations.

    by certainot on Sat Feb 25, 2012 at 01:10:48 PM PST

  •  "Huh huh. Shut up, Beavis!" (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    As Conservatives, we understand that the nuclear family of a single man and a single wife, bonded in holy matrimony in order to rear the next generation, is the cornerstone of a healthy society, a healthy economy, and ordered liberty. Without a strong family, the next generation will cease to be contributing members of society, and our nation will descend into the same abyss that most of the rest of the world finds itself in today.
    "You said, "Rear the next generation."

    Paging Doctor Freud!

    "Hey, what's a girl gotta do around here to get a Tiffany's tiara?"--Callista Gingrich

    by The Gryffin on Sat Feb 25, 2012 at 01:26:43 PM PST

  •  I found myself agreeing with Eric Erickson (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    nuketeacher, Odysseus, FarWestGirl, joynow

    just yesterday.  He was bemoaning the National Journal’s Self-Beclowning: Their Ideological Rankings of Congress Are Embarrassing, and his argument seemed pretty sound (a broken clock...) from a conservative perspective:

    According to National Journal, James Inhofe is more conservative than Jim DeMint by 2.3 points, but Jim DeMint is only 0.5 points more conservative than Mitch McConnell who is 11.4 points more conservative than Senator Rand Paul and also 2.4 points more conservative than Marco Rubio.

    (emphasis original)

    Seemed like he might have a point, plus he did us the courtesy of tossing our side a shard of a bone:
    I assume the liberal list is as stupid as the conservative list. I clicked over to Stephanie Palla's article, and found that Mr. Erickson was indeed correct - the liberal list is pretty damn stupid:
    1. (tie) Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-N.Y.)
    1. (tie) Sen. Jeff Merkley (D-Ore.)
    3. (tie) Sen. Daniel Akaka (D-Hawaii)
    3. (tie) Sen. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.), 5. (tie) Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.)
    5. (tie) Sen. Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio)
    5. (tie) Sen. Tom Harkin (D-Iowa)
    5. (tie) Sen. Barbara Mikulski (D-Md.)
    5. (tie) Sen. Tom Udall (D-N.M.)
    10. Sen. Ben Cardin (D-Md)
    Hard to put a lot of faith in a list of liberal Senators in which Bernie Sanders doesn't even crack the top 10...
  •  You know, if this is what conservatism stands (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FarWestGirl, Jon Sitzman

    for...then they should realize why they sound so negative and apocalyptic.  What idiocy.  

    Santorum/Bachmann 2012

    by sujigu on Sat Feb 25, 2012 at 02:03:41 PM PST

  •  A conservative manifesto. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bushondrugs, FarWestGirl

    Now that's a spectre haunting this continent.

    God be with you, Occupiers. God IS with you.

    by Hohenzollern on Sat Feb 25, 2012 at 02:05:19 PM PST

  •  Most of the rest of the world is hetero-married (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Europe is not so much, the U.S. is not so much, Canada is not so much. And while we have our problems, overall we're doing pretty well in the wealth-and-freedom departments, thank you very much.

    And so the right is, as ever, full of bullshit.

  •  So the "new message" is the old message (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    nuketeacher, juliesie

    Thanks nuketeacher for the link.

    So... where to start?

    The left has won the battle over public opinion simply by demonizing the values of the hardworking men and  women of which America is mad of
    Emphasis mine.  Well, first, PROOFREAD PLEASE.  But that's petty of me.  Meow.

    Second - so the fact that the conservative "right" has an entire fuckin' "News" network dedicated to nothing but their bile-duct propaganda equates to the media victory of the left?  The fact that conservative radio's top personalities (Rush Limbaugh, Mark Levin) sound like they're hosted by aggressive psychopaths - yet have listenerships in the thousands - is the media victory of the left?  The fact that for a terrifyingly long time, a person who was/is literally the poster-child for tinfoil-tricorne conspiracy theories (ladies and gents, I give you Glenn Beck) got stupid amounts of TV time is the media victory of the left?

    It's so funny to me to hear conservatives claim that media favors the other team.  And my response to this point is actually a waste of time.  It's better to just quote 'em some Jon Stewart:  "Reality has a well-known liberal bias."

    Oh yeah, and:

    and that those Americans should abandon these beliefs which have been the basis of Western society since its conception.
    No conservative butthurt piece would be complete without some of that old-time revision.
    We believe that we should not allow those who are poor to remain permanently on Government handouts, because we teach them and their offspring to not be productive citizens of a free society, thus exacerbating their poverty and extending their own personal economic malaise.
    There are abusers of the social support system in this country.  They are in the absolute minority.  And the way to stamp out (or more realistically, reduce) that abuse is not to starve said system to the point that it cannot support the overwhelming majority of users who are legitimately entitled to it and desperately need it.  You (conservatives) should also ask some of the legitimate users of the social support networks how "limiting" it is to them that these networks have put food on their table and have allowed (at least some of) them to remain living under their own roofs for the last 4 years, in some cases much longer.

    The oft-unstated second paragraph to this "cut social support" paradigm of conservatives is that churches and citizens should be the social support network instead.  Ron Paul is one of the few known conservatives who will come out and say this.  The counterargument is irritatingly obvious.  First, will a church whose leadership is adamant about taking away the civil and human rights of LGBT people really agree (at any level, leadership or rank-&-file) to support a gay person or couple in desperate need?  The indignant answer is "Of course we would!"  The reality?  I'll bet, not so much.  Second, what about ethic and/or religious minorities?  Will a church whose leadership calls Islam "evil" and "a cult" be willing to help an Islamic family in need?  Let's say... $10,000 bet?

    We Conservatives recognize that our government’s first role is to protect the people from the forces of evil. We recognize the difference between good and evil, and that America must stand for the former. We recognize that we cannot back down when faced by an enemy who stands for evil, and that we should not attempt to appease them because they will strengthen rather than weaken through that process. We Conservatives recognize that if America ceases to stand up for freedom, then the cause of liberty will be lost worldwide. Above all, we recognize that while war is one of the vilest things known to mankind, there are things that are worse, such as genocide, oppression, and slavery.
    Entirely horseshit.  The bitter lessons of Iraq and Afghanistan are painfully clear.  You, perhaps more correctly we, as a country, cannot "stamp out" the motivating forces for terrorist activities and extremist agendas, in the Middle East or anywhere else, through warlike extremism of our own.  I refer conservatives to the popular bumper-sticker of 2004, "We are creating enemies faster than we can kill them."  If we have any recourse to dwindle this sort of thing in the future, it is to reduce the social and economic hardships that make extremism of any flavor a desirable narrative.  We do that through humanitarian action, not war.

    Not to mention, as nuketeacher stated, this paragraph alludes to breathtaking hypocrisy in and of itself.  Most conservatives will tell you the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were necessary, but US intervention in Libya was ill-advised and pointless.  One of these three military actions lasted A DECADE.  One is still ongoing.  One was completed in months.  The two first-listed actions have cost hundreds of thousands of Iraqi and Afghan lives, most of them civilians and many of them children, not to mention the cost in American and Allied lives, nor the thousands of permanently injured who did not simply die.  The decision to take action in Libya was at the urging of our international community rather than a unilateral cowboy-act.  It cost lives, but was positively surgical in comparison to the wars in the Middle East.  It also had a dedicated objective (based on true intelligence) - which it accomplished with relative speed - and a clearly defined exit-strategy.  The Middle East wars, all too obviously, had none of the above.

    I went on too long in this, and others would probably word these refutations more pithily and well.  But this exact sort of article is what a former friend used to send me via e-mail as "evidence" that the conservative movement is America's only safe future, in an attempt to convert me.  I eventually broke off the friendship.  Because shit like this is disgusting.  Again, thanks nuketeacher for reminding me why I need to stay angry and stay committed.

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