Skip to main content

After a recent diary about Homeschool Socialization appeared on Daily Kos I realized from some of the comments left that homeschooling was being confused with Cyber Schools & Charter Schools. This post originally appeared on my blog September 6, 2006, I hope it clears up the confusion.

Sometimes the best post come from the responses to links left in the comments. Cerulean Sanctum claims to be homeschooling, but then goes on to say this.

Dan says: Today, my son formally starts Kindergarten with Ohio Virtual Academy, a homeschooling program chartered as a public school, so our taxpayer dollars go to our homeschooling!
This is NOT homeschooling, this is public school in the student's home. I have no problem with Virtual Schools or Charter Schools, but PLEASE be honest about what you are. You are Virtual Schoolers or Charter Schoolers, you are NOT Homeschoolers. Your schools are supported by tax money just like traditional public schools and you have to answer to public school authorities. Which is why it is important to make the distinction between those who really homeschool their kids and those who simply attend a public school in their home. And it leads to people like Dee demanding that real homeschoolers be accountable to someone, after all the public school at home students are and they consider themselves homeschoolers, so why don't the rest of us jump on the government bandwagon.
Dee says: If I understand the comments of the folks above, they are against being accountable to anyone but the Lord for their homeschooling practices. Being accountable to the Lord is of utmost importance, but I have known parents who homeschool who need to be held accountable to more than just the Lord, because their children are not being taught well. In fact, sometimes their children cannot read at their grade level despite being of above average intelligence. I am concerned about those who just decide that their children don't need to study a certain subject such as math. Legislation might be avoided if homeschoolers would voluntarily be accountable to organized homeschool groups. Being involved with an organized group should be considered because of its great benefits rather than its limitations. I applaud you for choosing such a program.
Exactly what organized homeschool group would she force me to be accountable to? HSLDA whom I don't agree with on many issues or some state run homeschool group? No, thanks! Dee is also assuming that all homeschoolers, homeschool for religious reason, which in my case isn't true. I certainly don't want to be accountable to some religious group (which the majority of homeschool groups are) for my children's education. I prefer being accountable to no one. After all I have my children's best interest at heart. And considering my oldest started college at 16 I think I have done a much better job then the public schools would have done. Dee has to be nuts if she thinks every public school student reads at grade level!!!!!! Most public school students read way below grade level as evidenced by the dumbing down of public school textbooks and classrooms.

At least Elena gets the difference, unlike Dan who seems to be emotionally invested in claiming he homeschools even though they do public school at home.

Elena says: Dan, I live in Ohio too. My oldest goes to Akron Digital Academy, a cyber school formed by the Akron Public School Board. My other four students are home schooled in that I filled out the notification form and sent an assessment by a certified teacher that they were working at their own level as required by Ohio law. So stating all that, I have to say that I love Bill Bennett's program. If I ever decided to use a public cyber school for my next oldest child, that's the one I would go with! However, it's not homeschooling. The legal requirements for enrolling my child in ADA was a lot different than what was required to homeschool. He has to take the Ohio proficiency tests, just as your son will. They are different.
Dan turned off the comments so I can't respond on his blog, but what he and JettyBetty do not get is their insistence on calling public school at home, homeschooling, may someday limit the choices of real homeschoolers. That is why we do not want them calling themselves homeschoolers, not because we are elitist or because we think our method is superior, but because we do not want our choices limited.

Originally posted to TheRealAlasandra on Sat Feb 25, 2012 at 05:13 PM PST.

Also republished by Education Alternatives.

EMAIL TO A FRIEND X
Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags

?

More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (10+ / 0-)

    "High-minded individuals are more dangerous than criminals. they can always find hypocritical excuses for committing acts of violence." Amelia Peabody Emerson

    by TheRealAlasandra on Sat Feb 25, 2012 at 05:13:31 PM PST

  •  What "dumbing down"? (17+ / 0-)

    Public school standards are quite a bit higher now than they have been in a while. I'm not sure what you mean by dumbing down.

    I'm a public school parent and do not appreciate the implication that public school kids are dumb or being treated as though they are dumb.

    •  Thanks for that! (8+ / 0-)

      It is what ticks me off about the Home schooling argument the most.

      •  Why? (5+ / 0-)

        Many people have a positive experience with public schools but others do not. Why should we have to pretend otherwise.

        Homeschooling allows you to tailor the curriculum to your child's needs. There is no way for a public schools with 20+ students in a classroom to replicate this. That is a fact and is neither meant to be positive or negative.

        Because they must teach everyone they have to start with the lowest common denominator. They can not teach to the brightest kid in the class and allow everyone else to struggle. By the same token they can't stay on the material long enough for all the children to master it they have to move along when the majority of the class has mastered the lesson even if some children are left behind to struggle. Until High School when the brightest kids can take Advanced Placement Classes.

        "High-minded individuals are more dangerous than criminals. they can always find hypocritical excuses for committing acts of violence." Amelia Peabody Emerson

        by TheRealAlasandra on Sat Feb 25, 2012 at 05:50:55 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Maybe (5+ / 0-)

      in your child's public school it is different but have you taken a good look at the textbooks?  Have you talked to the public school teachers? Around here they all admit the textbooks are dumbed down so that children who do not read at their grade level can understand them. They also complain that they have to dumb down their lesson plans and teach to the C and D students so they can pass the test. This holds the B and A students back. Have you spoken with College Professors who lament that students are graduating from public schools unready for college?

      Not all public schools are the same but the implication that all public schools are wonderful is equally erroneous. And no I do not think public school kids are dumb and public school works well for many children. It just doesn't work for all children and parents should be free to choose the educational method that works best for their child.

      Homeschooling allows parents whose children are capable of doing advance work to provide them with a challenging curriculum. It allows students who are struggling to move at a slower pace until they have mastered the curriculum. It allows parents to tailor the educational experience to their child's needs.

       

      "High-minded individuals are more dangerous than criminals. they can always find hypocritical excuses for committing acts of violence." Amelia Peabody Emerson

      by TheRealAlasandra on Sat Feb 25, 2012 at 05:36:25 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Perhaps your local (9+ / 0-)

        public schools do not differentiate instruction effectively. Ours work hard to try to do that. Regardless, the term "dumb down" is offensive when applied to public schools and their students in a broad way like you have here.

        I hope at their public schools my kids aren't learning to speak about those with different learning needs in the pejorative way you are.

      •  I have said this before, and I will say this again (20+ / 0-)

        I am a college professor in a high selective university. I see lots and lots of kids from the public schools, yes, the public schools, who are well prepared for college-level learning. Many of my top honors students were educated in the public school. I sent my own children to the local public schools. They went on to top colleges and earned top grades. The youngest is currently a college sophomore.

        I know that home schoolers do not want to be painted with a broad brush, but I wish that everyone would avoid using the same broad brush when dealing with the public schools. There are many excellent public schools in this country.

        •  I agree (2+ / 0-)

          there are excellent public schools and there are students who excel in the public school system.

          Not all students do and parents should be free to choose the educational method that works best for their child and best prepares them for university work.

          I don't mean to paint all public schools with a broad brush, sorry this post came across that way. But I do want people to be clear that charter schools and cyber schools are not homeschooling so we do not lose our freedoms.

          "High-minded individuals are more dangerous than criminals. they can always find hypocritical excuses for committing acts of violence." Amelia Peabody Emerson

          by TheRealAlasandra on Sat Feb 25, 2012 at 06:02:44 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I am probably a bit sensitive here because (5+ / 0-)

            there have been a number of home schooling diaries posted in the past few days. Posters have claimed that kids from the public schools are not accepted in top colleges; public schools can't meet the needs of top students, etc.

            Public schools vary, and students and their needs vary. No one size can fit all. I support parents' right to make the best decisions for their own children, but I do not like the public school bashing. Most of America's kids attend public schools; these kids are our future. My oldest kid is a post-doctoral researcher at Harvard. He has a PhD and an MPhil from Cambridge University in the UK and a BA summa cum laude from the University of Pennsylvania. He spent his first 13 years of schooling in the local public schools.

            •  Belive me (5+ / 0-)

              I can relate. After all for years those were the claims made against homeschoolers and we still have to deal with the socialization myth. So I too am a bit sensitive..............

              Congrats to your son. I am going to go out on a limb here and guess you are from the Northeast. I am from the Deep South in fact Mississippi (so you may have a better idea where I am coming from when I speak of the public schools). Here the school boards are finally being offered the chance to teach Abstinence + sex ed, but most are going to choose the "safe" Abstinence only sex ed, because they don't want to upset parents. Never mind we have the highest teen birth rate.

              My eldest got his Masters in Computer Science and just landed his first job in that field. We are very proud of him. My youngest is working on his B.A. Degree.

              "High-minded individuals are more dangerous than criminals. they can always find hypocritical excuses for committing acts of violence." Amelia Peabody Emerson

              by TheRealAlasandra on Sat Feb 25, 2012 at 06:26:46 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  I have seen commentors say that (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              congenitalefty

              homeschoolers cannot be accepted into college because they do not have an "academic record", which is contradicted by the fact that many are and excel. I have not seen any comments to the effect that public school students are not accepted in top colleges.

              Of course all high school students are not top students of the sort that your college likes to accept. I rather doubt your school accepts a lot of kids from the bottom 20th percentile.

              •  Um, you said this the other day: (0+ / 0-)
                But as an elite university, you would probably accept hardly any students out of public schools.
                •  Very true (0+ / 0-)

                  I suspect that first of all, your university accepts a relatively small number of students in comparison with the large number who no doubt apply. You do have limited capacity.  

                  And seeing the extraordinarily high requirements as you described them to me, I could see that a well-rounded public school education would in general be insufficiently academically intensive to qualify most students.

                  Probably your school accepts a higher percentage of students from elite private schools with academically intensive concentration than from public school applicants.

                  You are truly reaching here. You described your schools requirements as many AP and Honors courses, including calculus/precalculus/advanced math, extremely high writing skills, and much more. Every student, according to your description, must excel in everything.

                  Those things, as I stated before, take an extraordinary amount of time for a high school student, leaving them no time to live a life. Yeah, kids with no life are poorly socialized.

                  I suspect your school probably does accept kids who have a life, even if they haven't taken quite as many AP courses as you say they must.

                  •  As I said before, you are writing about (0+ / 0-)

                    something that you know very little about. I have spent the past 30 years working in higher education. On a personal level, I have gone through the college admissions process three times. One of my kids is now in college; the older two have completed graduate school.

                    I support parents' rights to home school, but you are really not helping your case. Expecting students to take a challenging high school program, have strong writing skills, and be calculus-ready is obviously not the same thing as  expecting them to "excel in everything." And, yes, most of these kids are well-socialized and "have a life."

                    •  Sure. I know nothing (0+ / 0-)

                      Teaching in public school, seeing the sorts of kids who are in public schools who are not elite, and raising a daughter who took lots of AP and honors courses means nothing. Clearly you can tell that I am an idiot who have never been inside a college and I am lying.

                      And I really believe you when you say you would accept a high percentage of high school students were they to apply, because the overwhelming majority of high school students would qualify. Really.

                      •  No, I don't think you are an idiot, so cut the (0+ / 0-)

                        hyperbole. That is a big part of your problem in trying to make your case. You have said a number of things about college admissions that are simply factually wrong. There is nothing in your background that makes you an expert on college admissions or higher education. That, however, does not mean that

                        Clearly you can tell that I am an idiot who have never been inside a college and I am lying.
                        Give me a break.

                        Yes, my university is selective, and yes, we accept lots of students from the public high schools, and from other places as well (private schools, foreign countries, etc.). And, yes, many of these kids are very well socialized. Some of our biggest feeder schools are the Bronx High School of Science and Brooklyn Tech. Of course, we accept a minority of students who apply. That's what defines a selective college.

                        Not everyone in this country can or should go to college, and public education needs to address the needs of a whole range of students--from the gifted and talented to the kids with disabilities. I spent 6 years on our local board of education, so I am well aware of the issues that the public schools face. As you know, public education also varies greatly by state, and in many cases by zip code.

                    •  My mistake, now that I have reread what you wrote (0+ / 0-)
                      Posters have claimed that kids from the public schools are not accepted in top colleges
                      But as an elite university, you would probably accept hardly any students out of public schools.
                      You misrepresented what I wrote. I should not have responded.
        •  It's not just a matter of material level (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          TheRealAlasandra, Thousandwatts

          Even the most gifted and creative teachers are stuck dealing with rules basically made by lawyers and insurance companies  about free play playgrounds, field trips, community based projects. etc, they are stuck with text books that are designed in Texas, and they have way too many kinds of students in one classroom to make the education of the gifted and the exceptional attactive and exciting.  This is not even close to an optiimal educational situation.

          A home schooled child can use the entire community as a learning lab, not to mention having access to all kinds of primary materials to use as textbooks.  I'm a former teacher and I was terribly envious of the flexiblity available to homeschoolers.

          Newt 2012. Sociopath, adulterer, hypocrite, Republican.

          by tikkun on Sat Feb 25, 2012 at 08:31:47 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Thanks (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            congenitalefty

            For explaining the beauty of homeschooling so well.

            A home schooled child can use the entire community as a learning lab, not to mention having access to all kinds of primary materials to use as textbooks.  I'm a former teacher and I was terribly envious of the flexiblity available to homeschoolers.

            "High-minded individuals are more dangerous than criminals. they can always find hypocritical excuses for committing acts of violence." Amelia Peabody Emerson

            by TheRealAlasandra on Sat Feb 25, 2012 at 08:34:09 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  Bingo! Very well put. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            congenitalefty
            they are stuck with text books that are designed in Texas, and they have way too many kinds of students in one classroom to make the education of the gifted and the exceptional attactive and exciting.

            Occupy- Your Mind. - No better friend, no worse enemy. -8.75, -6.21

            by Thousandwatts on Sat Feb 25, 2012 at 09:09:53 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  What I wish we could incorporate in the (9+ / 0-)

      discussion is the fact that public schools are hugely different by zip code. This means that every district is going to have different achievement levels. Some schools are great. Some are not. This is why one of the things new parents consider when buying property is the school district the house is in.

      Poverty = politics.

      by Renee on Sat Feb 25, 2012 at 05:47:29 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  When I visited a California Model School (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tikkun, congenitalefty

      several years ago a tenth grade English class 'read' a novel by listening to it from a recording while 'following along' in the book.

      Most students listened with divided attention: they read magazines, texted, or whispered to classmates. Rather than write essays about books they'd 'read' students made dioramas or posters illustrating some aspect of the book.

      The teacher also mentioned to me that students would watch a film version of the book once the 'reading' was complete.

      The novel in question was on the 10th grade reading list, so public school standards were met. I was at the school to observe good teaching practices, this class was recommended by an assistant principal as one I should viisit, so it's not like this was going on under the radar.

      "The problems of incompetent, corrupt, corporatist government are incompetence, corruption and corporatism, not government." Jerome a Paris

      by Orinoco on Sat Feb 25, 2012 at 05:55:58 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  The dumbing down of the textbooks, while perhaps (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      congenitalefty

      an unfortunate choice of words, reflects the very real dilution of textbook quality, as well as the level of discourse, in general, in the public school system.
      I have been exposed to public school textbooks while tutoring my sons in a variety of subjects for the past ten years and can attest to the general tendency towards graphics and spaces that eat up the page instead of text containing information. Thick books, not a lot of information.
      There is also a huge difference between AP class instruction and the information taught in non-AP classes.
      AP classes aren't necessarily really tough, honors level classes; they are often simply classes where the students are more interested in learning than they are in disrupting so more learning occurs.  

      Occupy- Your Mind. - No better friend, no worse enemy. -8.75, -6.21

      by Thousandwatts on Sat Feb 25, 2012 at 09:07:12 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  And I don't mean all public school kids, (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        congenitalefty

        or kids in general, are only interested in "disrupting".
        Middle school age kids have a lot going on developmentally and a big part of it is attention getting stunts to gain peer approval. That disrupts class and makes learning more difficult. It just takes a couple of competing class clowns to disrupt a schoolroom.
        I love public schools and I love homeschooling and I appreciate teachers and the tough job they are routinely given with never enough resources to do for way too many children.
        It wasn't a "broad brush"; sorry if it sounded that way when typed.

        Occupy- Your Mind. - No better friend, no worse enemy. -8.75, -6.21

        by Thousandwatts on Sat Feb 25, 2012 at 09:16:29 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  cyberschooling has existed at least since the 40s (6+ / 0-)

    At first, lessons were conducted by radio and later, by television, on special frequencies assigned for this purpose, with teachers whose specific job was to teach remote students.  During the 1950s, the Bell System developed speakerphones specially designed to connect home students with the classrooms they would otherwise be sitting in.  

    These combinations of technologies were primarily used for students in very remote rural areas, and students who were at home due to disabilities or long-term illnesses.  

    Today we also see adults taking university courses via internet, even to the point of being able to earn their degrees this way.

    "Minus two votes for the Democrat" equals "plus one vote for the Republican." Arithmetic doesn't care about your feelings.

    by G2geek on Sat Feb 25, 2012 at 05:47:05 PM PST

  •  Thanks for this (7+ / 0-)

    I have an issue with Santorum saying he 'homeschooled' his kids when he actually enrolled them in a distance learning charter in Pennsylvania while he lived in Virginia.

    "The problems of incompetent, corrupt, corporatist government are incompetence, corruption and corporatism, not government." Jerome a Paris

    by Orinoco on Sat Feb 25, 2012 at 05:57:31 PM PST

    •  Me too (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      historys mysteries, Orinoco

      And that deserves a whole other post.

      "High-minded individuals are more dangerous than criminals. they can always find hypocritical excuses for committing acts of violence." Amelia Peabody Emerson

      by TheRealAlasandra on Sat Feb 25, 2012 at 07:09:52 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  asdf (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        angelajean, Orinoco

        There are such wild swings of variation. Some people buy a curriculum in a box from a private company, with or without teacher support and sometimes even with online chat with fellow students. Does this make them private school students? But they're home, and the parent/educator is doing significantly more than reminding Junior to do his "homework". Other folks direct their children's core subjects but it's overseen by a once-monthly meeting with a public or public charter school teacher. Are they conventionally educated? I wouldn't say so. Some states require enrollment in an "accredited" umbrella program, but not all umbrellas are created equal. Some simply collect the records you put together and keep them on file. Some homeschoolers have worked out individual agreements with their local district by which they can homeschool some subjects and attend public school part time.

        A long time ago, an online homeschool community in which I participated decided that if someone self-identified as a homeschooler, it would be most courteous and best facilitate communication if everyone would accept that individual's opinion on their own status at face value. Picking it apart doesn't serve a useful purpose.

        Weathering Michigan's recessions since the '70s.

        by jennifree2bme on Sun Feb 26, 2012 at 03:29:52 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  That's the approach we have had as well... (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Nance, Orinoco, jennifree2bme

          in several different states where we have lived.

          In fact, I like this part so much that I want to highlight it again:

          A long time ago, an online homeschool community in which I participated decided that if someone self-identified as a homeschooler, it would be most courteous and best facilitate communication if everyone would accept that individual's opinion on their own status at face value. Picking it apart doesn't serve a useful purpose.
        •  The problem (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Orinoco

          occurs when public school at home parents  receive TAX MONEY in order to school their kids.

          Then you have people attacking REAL HOMESHOOLERS who do not receive any tax money for taking "public funds" for their school choice.

          Private School and Homeschool parents do not receive tax money.

          Those of you who are enrolled in some sort of public school be it cyber or charter and receive tax money should do those of us who bear the burden of fully funding our own children's education the courtesy of identifying yourself as public schoolers so those who do not understand the difference stop their attacks on homeschoolers.

          Homeschooling regulations do vary from state to state. But every state has differing laws for homeschool students then they do for public school students. If you are registered as a public school student do not identify yourself as a homeschooler. It is dishonest and it misleads people into believing that public funds are being given to homeschoolers when they are not.

          "High-minded individuals are more dangerous than criminals. they can always find hypocritical excuses for committing acts of violence." Amelia Peabody Emerson

          by TheRealAlasandra on Sun Feb 26, 2012 at 06:16:58 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  So then you explain. (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Orinoco, angelajean, jennifree2bme

            Some people have their children at home using the state-provided, tax-payer funded full curriculum. Some people have their children at home using material they have selected and purchased privately.

            Sometimes it is important to make the distinction, for legal or political reasons. Sometimes it is important to explain that, for instance, a student is actually, legally, a private school student and not a county-registered homeschool student (the two main options here in FL).

            All of these students, however, have access to state-funded free selected courses through the state's virtual school. All have access to free college classes through dual enrollment.

            These two categories of students (private/umbrella school homeschooler and county-registered homeschooler) are different from the student learning at home using the full curriculum provided by his county/state. That student is a public-school-enrolled student and has to use the full curriculum and take the state tests, etc., the same as any other student in public school.

            Unless they aren't. :) Some counties here offer another hybrid and have county-registered homeschoolers who choose to use the full K-12 state-provided, taxpayer-funded online curriculum at home. (As far as I know, this option is not available to private/umbrella school homeschoolers.) These students are, legally, in the category of county-registered homeschooler.

            It is important to understand these different choices and categories when legal, or political, issues arise.

            At the park or online or when the checkout lady at the market wonders why there's no school today, all of these categories of students who are learning at home, not in a school building, regularly call themselves homeschoolers. It is ridiculous to think they would do otherwise or to insist they should.

            Once in a blue moon, a person out in the world will ask about how this homeschooling thing works. Then the homeschooler might explain the different options and the one she has chosen. But be prepared for eyes to start glazing over quickly. :)

            •  Wow (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Orinoco

              Florida has a lot of options.

              It is important to understand these different choices and categories when legal, or political, issues arise.
              Yes, it is and that is what I want. When someone gets the mistaken idea that all homeschoolers receive tax money they get understandably upset. Especially if they send their kids to a Private School.  Why aren't they getting tax money for their school choice?

              Perhaps we could use the terms Public Homeschoolers and Private Homeschoolers to differentiate between the public school students who just happen to be receiving their education @ home and those whose education at home is being privately funded by their parents.

              That way when people want to end the public funding for public school at home they don't fill the need to prevent private (self-funded) homeschoolers from Homeschooling.

              "High-minded individuals are more dangerous than criminals. they can always find hypocritical excuses for committing acts of violence." Amelia Peabody Emerson

              by TheRealAlasandra on Sun Feb 26, 2012 at 08:04:50 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Perhaps not. (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                angelajean, jennifree2bme

                Perhaps you could use whatever terms you want and I'll use whatever terms I want.

                When someone gets the mistaken idea that all homeschoolers receive tax money the facts can be explained to them. As I tried to above. Information is the answer. Imposing politically-charged and ever-more-confusing names on different categories of students is not.

      •  Let's have that (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        angelajean

        "whole other post" then. Let's get accurate information out there, if it isn't already, about exactly who is paying for Santorum's children's education. Contrast that with his statements against federal and state control and funding of education. There's a blog post there. Which does not need to descend to the level of telling homeschoolers what to call themselves.

    •  And if he said he used a public school (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Orinoco

      we would all be angry because he wasn't honest about homeschooling.

      The truth is that using a public charter for homestudy is BOTH. It is homeschooling and public schooling combined.

      •  No (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Orinoco

        it isn't.

        His child is not registered in his state as a homeschooler. He is registered as a public school student. Make the distinction clear. They are doing public school @ home.

        Homeschoolers do not receive tax money. It is insulting to those of us who bear the full economic burden for educating our children to have parents who receive tax money claim to be homeschooling. It is also very annoying when "progressives" want to end homeschooling because we are taking their tax money. Homeschoolers do not take their tax money public school @ home students do and the distinction should be made clear.

        Why do you have such a problem admitting you do public school @ home?

        Why do you want to claim to be homeschooling when you are not.

        Yes, I do understand that public school @ home differs from traditional public schools and that you are more involved in your child's education then the typical public school parent. I think most people would get that from the "@ home" part. But public school @ home also differs from "real" homeschooling. Please acknowledge that.

        "High-minded individuals are more dangerous than criminals. they can always find hypocritical excuses for committing acts of violence." Amelia Peabody Emerson

        by TheRealAlasandra on Sun Feb 26, 2012 at 06:24:44 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I don't have a problem admitting I do public (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Orinoco, Nance

          school at home. I told you that we were homeschoolers with a public school. But when someone asks me a simple question - where do your kids go to school? - the most honest answer is we school at home. Even when we receive public dollars to do so. Trust me, the conversation always goes further and the Charter School was talked about a ton in our community. But we all identified with being homeschoolers first and foremost.

          Why do you have such a problem with that? Are you really afraid that public homeschool charters will take away your right to homeschool without public dollars? Are you familiar with the types being run in CA or are you in a different state?

          We are no longer in CA but I have to say it was one of our better homeschooling locations because of the progressive homeschooling community near us and because the charter school brought together a unique mix of conservative and progressive homeschooling families. I really miss it in so many ways.

          •  We (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Orinoco

            are in Mississippi so I am not familiar with all the regulations in CA. I know that my homeschool friends there had to register as a private school, in order to homeschool.

            Are you really afraid that public homeschool charters will take away your right to homeschool without public dollars?
            In a word yes!

            People get upset about how their tax money is being spent. Many people do not like their tax money being spent on public school at home. I am sure you realized that from the comments left on the socialization post. They do not realize that there are "homeschoolers" who do not receive tax money and then there are public school @ home students who do but call themselves "homeschoolers".  So their battle cry is "End Homeschooling!.

            Then there are those who wonder why one set of "homeschoolers" the public school @ home ones have to meet state requirements just like the public schools do and another set of homeschoolers doesn't. And so their battle cry is Regulate Homeschooling.

            I have no problem with you saying you school at home and then clarifying that it is through a public school when asked. Although I think it would be more helpful to say you public school @ home, so there is no room for confusion. But it really irks me when people say homeschoolers get tax money, when we do not.

            "High-minded individuals are more dangerous than criminals. they can always find hypocritical excuses for committing acts of violence." Amelia Peabody Emerson

            by TheRealAlasandra on Sun Feb 26, 2012 at 06:51:08 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  One of the things I have discovered while home- (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Orinoco

              schooling is that I believe more people should be able to do it. That means making it affordable for everyone. In my mind, making public dollars available so that homeschooling is a valid option for people of all means is part of the argument I am willing to take on. For me, it's part of the progressive answer to homeschooling... for others, not so much. I used to think more like you do but it has changed over time. I am open to conversation about it, but I doubt I will change my mind back at this point.

              I also believe that parents are very capable of teaching their children without teaching degrees, college degrees, or even without high school diplomas. And that homeschool regulations should be minimal, even in a public school setting. We were fortunate to have that with our school in CA. I know that not every state has that.

              Did you read GreenMother's piece yesterday? I agree with her on so much:

              And now I feel like I have to convince people to trust my parenting skills? That I have to convince them that I have made and will make, efficacious, educational decisions that mitigate or cancel out the harmful effects of a broken and battered public school system that has been pock marked and crippled by ideological warfare for the past 30 years.  
              I want our society to respect a parent's ability to actually raise their own child as they see fit and to understand that education, including public education, can take many different forms.
              •  I like (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Orinoco

                the idea of making homeschooling more accessible to all. After all I think it is a wonderful educational alternative.

                But here in Mississippi any mention of using "tax money" for public school @ home has the general population trying to shut down all Homeschooling. And then they start trying to regulate Homeschooling under the mistaken belief that their tax money is paying for it.

                I watched John Stossel's "Stupid in America" awhile back and I really like the idea of doing away with public schools entirely and providing parents with money to educate their child. The parents are then free to send their child to the private school of their choice or or to homeschool.

                 

                "High-minded individuals are more dangerous than criminals. they can always find hypocritical excuses for committing acts of violence." Amelia Peabody Emerson

                by TheRealAlasandra on Sun Feb 26, 2012 at 07:45:41 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  While I agree with most of what you say (0+ / 0-)

                about homeschooling, angelajean, I still have concerns about sending tax dollars to unregulated entities such as charter/public schools @ home.

                This in no way disrespects parents or their ability to raise their children. Santorum, the poster child for my concerns, probably was trying to do the best by his children, by his own lights. I don't have an issue with that. But the charter he chose scammed over $100,000 from the State of Pennsylvania. The incentive they used was free curriculum, free laptops and free internet access for their students, paid for by the state, not the parents, and they were willing to look the other way on out of state applications.

                An analogy: people who signed liar loans at the behest of their banks' loan officers may have felt uneasy about getting money with no income to pay the loan principle, but with their loan officer, their real estate agent, their seller, and probably some of their friends saying, "go ahead, everyone does it, you're taking care of your family, don't you want to own your home instead of renting?" they signed anyway. Loose and unenforced regulations allowed that situation to occur. Was it the homeowners fault? Most of us agree it was the bad actors on the other side of the table.

                And bad actors there will be, if there is money to be had. You were diligent and lucky in California to find an excellent charter school. Most are not that good, close to a majority of charters do worse for their students than the neighborhood public school. And some of those charters will be scams.

                We already see a case in Florida, where a charter organized itself to outsource their physical plant and food service to shell companies run by the charter itself. Why did they set it up that way? The charter makes what looks like legitimate expenditures that take money away from their classrooms and ultimately enrich the charter operator.  

                "The problems of incompetent, corrupt, corporatist government are incompetence, corruption and corporatism, not government." Jerome a Paris

                by Orinoco on Sun Feb 26, 2012 at 08:18:38 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  There are definitely charter schools that give the (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Orinoco

                  whole concept of charter schools a bad name. You won't find any argument there.

                  But there are also traditional public schools that give all public schools a bad name. I don't want to get rid of all of them any more than I want to get rid of all charter schools. We would be throwing lots of babies out with the bath water. I just want a more leveled discussion about education altogether. Too many people are married to the idea that only one thing can work. It seems to be that solutions are to be found not by a single right way, but by hundreds, if not thousands, of right ways. We are too diverse a nation to rely on a single type of education for our populace.

                  •  Agree 100% on the need for diversity (0+ / 0-)

                    Nor do I want to get rid of any charters that work.

                    My concern is that in conflating charters/public school @ home funded by the state, and homeschool funded by parents, homeschooling may end up regulated to death, or, charters may become the wild west of education.

                    Allowing people to self-define their choices reduces the chance of honest, leveled discussion of the issues. Different choices have different benefits and pitfalls, and should, imho, be kept separate. Not disallowed, just discussed separately.

                    How's that "Types of Homeschooling" diary series coming along? That might clear up a lot of the confusion and angst.  

                    "The problems of incompetent, corrupt, corporatist government are incompetence, corruption and corporatism, not government." Jerome a Paris

                    by Orinoco on Sun Feb 26, 2012 at 12:46:22 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Types of Homeschooling is on the back burner (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Orinoco

                      We're tackling why homeschooling is progressive first - Leftyparent has that. The week after that I have another parent who wanted to publish Homeschool on a Shoestring Budget to prove that homeschooling isn't just for the 'elite' among us.

                      After that, I'm wide open :) I am sure we will have more people offering but I haven't pushed anyone for a specific article yet.

                      Good thing this is a long term project, hey?

            •  This made me chuckle. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Orinoco, angelajean

              "People get upset about how their tax money is being spent. Many people do not like their tax money being spent on public school at home."

              It made me think of Santorum and how many (of his) people do not like their tax money being spent on public school.

              I'm not worried that the public school system is going to close down any time soon, though.

              And neither is homeschooling, in all its varieties.

              •  People like Santorum (0+ / 0-)

                propose laws that would allow bullying under cover of religion. They propose laws mandating specific religious observances in public schools. They constantly attempt to warp science curricula toward teaching religious points of view rather than actual science. They propose history textbooks that contain lies about our history.

                If Santorum, or anyone like him, is elected (not only President, but to any office that can affect public schools) they may not shut the public school system down, but you won't like what they turn it into.

                And I'm sure they would soon turn their attention to homeschoolers, too, and pass laws that require homeschools to become mini-madrassas for our home-spun taliban.

                "The problems of incompetent, corrupt, corporatist government are incompetence, corruption and corporatism, not government." Jerome a Paris

                by Orinoco on Sun Feb 26, 2012 at 08:28:53 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Are we (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Orinoco

                  really supposed to be worried that Santorum is going to be elected President? Not something I'm losing sleep over.

                •  I agree with you (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Orinoco

                  Which is why homeschooling needs to be kept independent of government funds and government regulations

                  When parents enroll in a PUBLIC charter/cyber school and call it homeschooling they are opening the door for independent self-funded homeschooling to be attacked.

                  This was in The Sun Herald today

                  His concerns - opposing gay marriage and abortion, promoting traditional roles for women - contribute to that appeal. The Christian Post, an evangelical media outlet, published an article this week called "Catholic Politicians You Thought Were Evangelical," with a short list of the most-often misidentified, led by Santorum.
                  What prey tell are traditional rolls for women?

                  "High-minded individuals are more dangerous than criminals. they can always find hypocritical excuses for committing acts of violence." Amelia Peabody Emerson

                  by TheRealAlasandra on Sun Feb 26, 2012 at 10:20:31 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  What prey tell are traditional roles for women? (0+ / 0-)

                    I think I can illustrate this with an old joke. What is the difference between a prostitute, a nymphomanic and a 'traditional' woman?

                    The prostitute says: "That's it."

                    The nymphomanic says: "That's it?"

                    The 'traditional' woman says: "Peach."
                    ...
                    ...
                    ...
                    "Peach."
                    ...
                    ...
                    ...
                    "I think I'll paint the ceiling Peach..."

                    "The problems of incompetent, corrupt, corporatist government are incompetence, corruption and corporatism, not government." Jerome a Paris

                    by Orinoco on Sun Feb 26, 2012 at 12:31:55 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

        •  Your belligerance is very off-putting (0+ / 0-)

          We decided to move the center farther to the right by starting the whole debate from a far-right position to begin with. - Former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay

          by denise b on Sun Feb 26, 2012 at 02:20:58 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  State laws vary, apparently a lot. (4+ / 0-)

    In West Virginia everyone who home schools has to have a curriculum plan approved by the school district. The kid has to be evaluated at the end of the year, either by the same standardized test given to all public school kids or by submitting a portfolio of their work which is evaluated by a public school teacher of the appropriate grade. You can't leave your kid alone at home with just a copy of the Bible (or the Koran or Das Kapital) and get away with it.

    Maybe WV has had more experience because it is largely a rural state with some very isolated areas, especially in the winter. It takes a bus ride of an hour each way for some kids to get to school. The cost/benefits of home schooling change significantly.

    •  Not sure about Maryland's laws (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      angelajean, a gilas girl

      My wife home-schooled our son in first grade because of health issues.  She got the curriculum from the county Board of Education, so he was able to move smoothly into second grade in the school.

      My wife's mother is from West Virginia - attended a one-room school house during the Depression.  The teacher told her she would never amount to anything, so she got out of WV as soon as she could.  She became a bank vice-president (after decades of watching men receiving the only promotions).

      Our experience hasn't been that the schools have dumbed-down curricula.  If anything - and this is probably an unpopular position - I think they've dumbed-up the curricula, strongly pushing AP courses in high school.  AP courses - another lucrative source of income for the ETS that millions of parents buy into and an irrelevant statistic touted by schools; I'm sure whoever came up with that bright idea at ETS got a big bonus.  More than the guy who thought up "Repeat." for shampoo.

      •  AP courses (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        angelajean

        are very different then the typical classes. If your child is taking all AP classes be very thankful.

        Note AP classes are not offered in elementary grades. I started homeschooling before Jr. High.

        "High-minded individuals are more dangerous than criminals. they can always find hypocritical excuses for committing acts of violence." Amelia Peabody Emerson

        by TheRealAlasandra on Sun Feb 26, 2012 at 06:27:08 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  By a ton! (0+ / 0-)

      As a military family, we know it well!

      I belong to a military homeschooling group and with each new assignment, one of the first things we do is ask who is already living in that state to find out what is going on. It isn't just the actual laws, it's how they are held up as well.

  •  bringing 'em back to public schools via cyber: (5+ / 0-)

    With the proliferation of broadband and webcams and IP-telephony, it should be inevitable that public schools start having remote students on a much wider scale.  This will enable many students who would otherwise be "homeschooled" to be "public schooled at home."  

    This will liberate students who:

    = might suffer bullying or emotional abuse from others in school, or who are afraid of those things.  

    = have mild autistic spectrum conditions such as Aspergers.

    = have more obvious disabilities that require more extensive accessibility measures than can be provided effectively outside the home (e.g. students with compromised immune systems, certain types of paralysis, etc.).

    = have to be present in the home for some other reason such as to look after a younger sibling while parents are away at work.  

    It will liberate families from the trap whereby conventional "homeschooling" requires significant diligence to avoid curriculum materials produced by religious extremists.

    During pandemics, it could be used to enable self-quarantine measures on a wide scale, to stop the outbreaks and prevent them spreading.  During other types of natural disasters or civil emergencies, it could be used by all students to keep "going to school" rather than missing days or weeks.

    The cost of all of this is minimal: using the existing broadband connections in classrooms, one dedicated terminal to provide the "broadcast" interface from the classroom, and any desktop or portable device with voice and video capability.  Open-source teleconferencing software can enable the students to participate in a manner similar to others who are physically present.  The teacher's terminal would give the teacher a private view of the home students, that couldn't be seen by other students in the classroom.  

    Minimum cost, maximum benefit, improved opportunities for students, and improved resilience for communities.    There's no good reason to not do this.    

    "Minus two votes for the Democrat" equals "plus one vote for the Republican." Arithmetic doesn't care about your feelings.

    by G2geek on Sat Feb 25, 2012 at 06:05:45 PM PST

    •  Already available. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      G2geek, 207wickedgood, angelajean

      We asked for some more challenging math on our IEP in middle school. The state agreed and had several programs that they had certified and would pay for. Some of them involved regular classroom distance participation while others were self paced but still had regular email contact with the instructor.

      Since she wanted a faster pace we picked the Johns Hopkins self paced program. This let our daughter finish both Geometry and Advanced Algebra in one semester. If she had taken one of the classroom programs she would have spent two years doing that.

      I greatly prefer the JH tutor model. The tutors spend less time interacting with the kids, but when they do it is quality time. I expect that for most kids much of the time that they spend sitting in school is wasted- either the material is over their heads, something they have already mastered, or the teacher is trying to do classroom management.

    •  And this (3+ / 0-)

      is exactly what I want to avoid. I choose to homeschool my children because I did not want to use the same curriculum as the public schools. My eldest son was capable of doing more advanced work then the public school was providing.

      We didn't have a problem with bullying
      My children didn't have disabilities
      I was home with my children actively teaching them. They did not have to be here we choose for them to be here.

      It will liberate families from the trap whereby conventional "homeschooling" requires significant diligence to avoid curriculum materials produced by religious extremists.
      There is no "trap" and requires no diligence (what an ignorant statement) you are free to purchase whatever textbooks you wish and can purchase textbooks from the same publishers the public schools and colleges do. In fact you can go to college bookstores to purchase textbooks if you wish.

      "High-minded individuals are more dangerous than criminals. they can always find hypocritical excuses for committing acts of violence." Amelia Peabody Emerson

      by TheRealAlasandra on Sat Feb 25, 2012 at 07:18:09 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Noble idea, but... (0+ / 0-)

      That's not the way cyber-schooling is working.  

      Many students who are working from home and whose school is publicly funded are working through corporate-owned, for-profit schools that are receiving taxpayer money.  What they're learning looks nothing like brick-and-mortar public education.  It is not "bringing 'em back to public school."

      Has anyone found numbers on what proportion publicly-funded at-home students go through for-profit schools and how many are going through state run schools?  

      I know the only state-wide at-home schools in my state are for profit, but there are individual district at-home schools and community college programs for high-schoolers too. My guess is it is a vast majority are for-profit.  

      *I've never used so many hyphens in my life.

  •  Did we home school our daughter in high school? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    207wickedgood, angelajean

    She was half time at the local public high school. About a quarter of the rest were high school distance ed (run by Johns Hopkins, U. Nebraska, or U. Missouri) or local university classes. The remaining courses were directed by my wife or me. She didn't get a diploma from anywhere. According to West Virginia law we were home schoolers, but most of her schooling was in public educational systems.

    •  If (0+ / 0-)
      According to West Virginia law we were home schoolers
      the law identified you as homeschoolers that works for me. My problem is with those who the LAW identifies as public school at home students but who still tell people they are homeschoolers.

      This misleads people into believing homeschoolers receive tax money when we do not.

      "High-minded individuals are more dangerous than criminals. they can always find hypocritical excuses for committing acts of violence." Amelia Peabody Emerson

      by TheRealAlasandra on Sat Feb 25, 2012 at 07:35:56 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Who are you to order people how to call (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Nance

    themselves?

    •  I just want (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      congenitalefty

      people to understand the difference between public charter and cyber schools and homeschools.

      People on another diary were complaining about homeschoolers  because their tax money was going to public charter schools at home.

      As a HOMESCHOOLER I received no government funds and it really annoys me when someone says I shouldn't be allowed to homeschool because their tax money is paying for it. NOT IT ISN'T THEIR TAX MONEY IS PAYING FOR PUBLIC CHARTER AND CYBER SCHOOLS NOT HOMESCHOOLS.

      Really WHY do those who are doing public school at home have such a problem identifying it as such?

      Why do you want to mislead people into thinking they are paying for people to homeschool when they aren't?

      "High-minded individuals are more dangerous than criminals. they can always find hypocritical excuses for committing acts of violence." Amelia Peabody Emerson

      by TheRealAlasandra on Sat Feb 25, 2012 at 07:24:49 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I recced this diary because I think continuing (3+ / 0-)

    the conversation is a good thing. And I get why you are saying there is a difference. But I think AngelaJean made a good point in the other diary. Turning homeschoolers into different factions doesn't seem useful.

    Poverty = politics.

    by Renee on Sat Feb 25, 2012 at 07:02:40 PM PST

    •  Clearly (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tikkun

      identifying public school students even those who are doing public school at home is important, so the general population doesn't think their tax money is going to homeschoolers.

      I have no problem with people choosing public school at home if that is best for their family; but I don't want their choice to take away my family's freedom to homeschool.

      "High-minded individuals are more dangerous than criminals. they can always find hypocritical excuses for committing acts of violence." Amelia Peabody Emerson

      by TheRealAlasandra on Sat Feb 25, 2012 at 07:27:26 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Don't let corporations take over public education. (4+ / 0-)

    We have a current controversy in Iowa where for-profit corporations are using a loophole in Iowa open enrollment rules sell online education at taxpayer expense.

    •  I have (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tikkun, congenitalefty, cocinero

      read a little about this, and it is one of the reasons I think it is so important to clearly identify and differentiate between;

      Homeschools
      Private Schools
      Private Online (Cyber) Schools

      Public Schools
      Public Online (Cyber)Schools
      Charter Schools

      "High-minded individuals are more dangerous than criminals. they can always find hypocritical excuses for committing acts of violence." Amelia Peabody Emerson

      by TheRealAlasandra on Sat Feb 25, 2012 at 07:39:27 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        blue jersey mom

        I think it's also important to follow the money.

        There's big money in education, and the GOP seems too willing to syphon off public money to private for-profit corporations.

        This is part of two general GOP beliefs:

        1. Private enterprise does things well, and the government can't do anything right, so government services should be privatized when possible. (Of course that serves their corporate benefactors.)

        2. Public employee unions are enemies of Republicans. They must be crushed.

        I have no problem with public school districts (or state agencies)  providing online instruction for the small percentage of students who cannot attend regular school for some compelling reason. But, if it's funded with tax dollars, I it should not be advertised on TV to entice parents to keep children home who should be attending school. It certainly should not be farmed out to for-profit corporations.

        •  Actually (0+ / 0-)

          online instruction may become the norm. Just think of the money that could be saved if new schools didn't have to be built, existing schools maintained, and the cost of utilities throughout the school year. Not to mention the cost of transporting students to brick and mortar schools.

          You have to admit it would be much better for the environment, if everyone attended school online.  And it would address public school teachers complaints that they are often viewed as "free" baby sitters by parents. Parents would be in charge of providing baby sitting for their own children while teachers would be free to concentrate on teaching.

          But if the online service is being provided with tax payer funds then a-for-profit corporations should not be the one providing the service.

          "High-minded individuals are more dangerous than criminals. they can always find hypocritical excuses for committing acts of violence." Amelia Peabody Emerson

          by TheRealAlasandra on Sun Feb 26, 2012 at 10:07:24 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Excellent article (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    angelajean

    I'm republishing it to Education Alternatives.

  •  Glad to see that you took our conversation (0+ / 0-)

    and expanded it to diary form!

    If you ever want to write other diaries about homeschooling, we are looking for motivated writers, even ones that disagree with me :)

    I'm sending you an invite if you would like to join us!

  •  We Stand for Homeschooling (0+ / 0-)

    For those interested The We Stand for Homeschooling post explains why clarity is so important better then I ever could.

    And why those of us who Homeschool object to those who are doing public school at home using the homeschooling name.

    "High-minded individuals are more dangerous than criminals. they can always find hypocritical excuses for committing acts of violence." Amelia Peabody Emerson

    by TheRealAlasandra on Sun Feb 26, 2012 at 08:13:53 AM PST

    •  And here's (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      angelajean

      a link to one of the many responses over the years to the We Stand idea --

      http://marygriffith.net/...

      •  But (0+ / 0-)

        why should I have to continuously explain that real homeschoolers do not receive tax money, that real homeschoolers are self funded and receive no help from the state. That those who receive tax money are enrolled in public school @ home programs. When IF they would just find another word to identify themselves the problem would be solved.

        I have no problem with people doing public school at home. But it isn't homeschooling, they are not enrolled with the State as Homeschoolers they are enrolled as public school students.

        And maybe we can agree that if the State you reside in considers you a public school student then you aren't homeschooling.

        "High-minded individuals are more dangerous than criminals. they can always find hypocritical excuses for committing acts of violence." Amelia Peabody Emerson

        by TheRealAlasandra on Sun Feb 26, 2012 at 09:59:14 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  This is one of many educational paths... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Nance, angelajean

    that work well for some kids and their families.  IMO if we can continue to develop a public school infrastructure that encourages diverse educational venues, diverse curricula (even learner-driven) and more egalitarian models of governance of those learning venues (including students in decisions), we will move toward a truly effective education system for the 21st century.

    Cooper Zale Los Angeles http://www.leftyparent.com

    by leftyparent on Sun Feb 26, 2012 at 08:54:11 AM PST

  •  I am really late to this diary, so I don't (0+ / 0-)

    know how many people will see this comment, but in Washington State, at least, the line between public school alternative (homeschool support type programs, called ALEs) and homeschooling is not as black and white as you have defined it in this diary.  Maybe it is that way in other states.

    First, the way the law is written in Washington, you have 3 legal ways to educate your children after the compulsory age (which is 8, with a bill in the legislature to lower it to 6).  Public school, private school, homeschooling.  Each has it's own code.

    When I tell the state I am homeschooling, then my rights and responsibilities are outlined in a specific law addressing this.

    Public school programs are administered under a different law and by the Office of the Superintendent of Public Instruction (OSPI).

    There are several ways the lines are blurred:

    ~the homeschool law gives part time access to the public schools.  For example, when we began homeschooling, we still went to the elementary school that my kids had previously attended for music class, once or twice a week for 30 minutes.  They were considered fractional students with the school getting a fraction of their allotment for funding.   I have a friend right now whose son is taking Mandarin and Algebra II at the local highschool, and homeschooling all his other subjects.  So long as you are doing it under the homeschool law, and don't want them to issue a diploma, then you can do this however you work it out with the local school.  The school also has the right to say they don't have room for your kids if their classes are full.  

    ~a few years ago, many of the school districts began ALE programs (alternative learning environments).  They vary from brick and mortar to online programs, but here was the deal, they helped the funding of the school district, while still allowing parents to "homeschool" their kids.  It worked like this:  The district would offer a program that allowed you to take a few classes a week, and be under the supervision of a teacher who helped develop the student's learning plan each year.  In exchange, the district would provide books, reimbursement for curriculum purchased, reimbursement for programs like music classes, karate lessons, etc.  The reimbursement varied, with some districts offering a few hundred up to about $1500 per child per year.  The district would be getting the 100% allotment for public school for the kids, approx $6500 per child.  They gave away some of it, spent a little on whatever support or classes they chose to offer, but in the end, they were netting thousands of dollars per student for the districts.  

    Because this was advantageous to the school districts, they began to blur the lines (many argue intentionally) by calling these "homeschool programs".  Many people participating in them didn't realize they were still public school students OR that they had a choice to homeschool a completely different way without having that responsibility to the schools.

    Also, you could do some weird thing where you were part time homeschooling and part time using an ALE.  This got you out of state testing requirements, while still allowing you to get public funding, which was then adjusted to your %.  It was quite a racket, and caused a LOT of division in the homeschooling community.  True homeschoolers were being demonized for taking public money (which they weren't), because everyone in these programs considered themselves homeschoolers.

    Over the past two years, the laws that govern ALEs have been rewritten, and at the same time, there has been a lot of education within the homeschooling community to these issues.  Due to it becoming a very hot button political issue, the programs are no longer allowed to provide reimbursements in any way.  They can still provide curricular material, but it has to be the same as available to other students in the district (which it wasn't before).  With all the budget crisis in the state, a bright light was shined on these gray area programs and a large cryout (and I agree with it) for accountability was made.  The idea being, if they are getting public money, then they should have some accountability for it.

    In the meantime, the "true" homeschooling community has maintained that we want nothing, we ask for nothing, because we know that if we do, then we too will have to give up our freedoms for accountability.

    I refuse to believe corporations are people until Texas executes one

    by k8dd8d on Sun Feb 26, 2012 at 05:37:26 PM PST

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site