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On Saturday February 18, PayPal began threatening indie book publishers and distributors with immediate deactivation of the businesses’ accounts if they did not remove books containing certain sexual themes.

PayPal has told indie e-book publishers and retailers such as AllRomance, Smashwords, Excessica and Bookstrand that if they don’t remove the offending literature from their catalogs within a few days of notification, PayPal would close their accounts.

Of course, the immediate termination of payment processing would devastate these businesses and all of their authors (not just the erotic writers) overnight.

/ more under fold /

Here is the entire news article from ZDNet

All of the Smashwords authors were told in an email that if they want to see their work published and distributed through the popular alternative e-book e-tailer, they will need to make sure their works of fiction conform to PayPal’s acceptable use definitions of sexual fantasies.

Bookstrand went nuclear, and completely eliminated most of the indie titles from their catalog.

AllRomance has decided to stop publishing books that focus more on sex than romance - they are effectively purging all titles that are primarily sexually explicit storytelling “where sex [not romance] drives the story” from their catalog.

It’s a curious thing for PayPal to begin policing content in erotic books. Though they have a mighty hammer with which to enforce their morality.

PayPal would ban works by Anaïs Nin, Vladimir Nabokov, Henry Miller, Marquis de Sade and books like Caligula, The Sookie Stackhouse Novels (True Blood), The Story of O, Venus in Furs, Lolita…

Back in 2003, when PayPal was bought by ebay many sex bloggers were similarly treated.

Let's also remember that Amazon also removed various kinds of erotica from its store.

Book industry analyst Chris Meadows has done some research (link to article) and quoting blogger Selena Kitt found that:

PayPal may not even be the root cause in and of itself. .. credit card companies charge higher premiums for taking payments for services where there is a high risk of chargebacks—such as erotica and porn. Paypal doesn’t want to have to pay Visa and MC for carrying “high risk” accounts on their books. You have to remember that Paypal is a middleman. Sites that carry high-risk material have to pay the high-risk costs of doing business. If you’re going through Paypal, you don’t have to pay that. Until Paypal catches you. And then they insist you take down your high-risk content or lose your account.
I suppose PayPal is free to run its services whichever it sees fit, and that opens the door for some competing services to sweep in, but frankly, I find this whole obsession with what people read or not read, and how we should punish them for it, and of course the sheer illogicality of it (is TEEN WOLF bestiality?) revolting. Nauseating even.

Especially coming from a bunch of bankers.

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Comment Preferences

  •  More. (10+ / 0-)

    From the email Smashwords received:

    On Saturday, February 18, PayPal’s enforcement division contacted Smashwords with an ultimatum. As with the other ebook retailers affected by this enforcement, PayPal gave us only a few days to achieve compliance otherwise they threatened to deactivate our PayPal services. I’ve had multiple conversations with PayPal over the last several days to better understand their requirements. Their team has been helpful, forthcoming and supportive of the Smashwords mission. I appreciate their willingness to engage in dialogue. Although they have tried their best to delineate their policies, gray areas remain.

    Their hot buttons are bestiality, rape-for-titillation, incest and underage erotica.

    The ZDNet article overstates things.
    •  That does not make it any better. n/t (5+ / 0-)

      (-7.62, -6.31), Blood type "O", Democratic-socialist, social anarchist, KY-01, "When smashing monuments, save the pedestals. They always come in handy." — Stanisław Lem

      by Setsuna Mudo on Wed Feb 29, 2012 at 05:30:39 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  It may not make it better for you, but I found (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        IndieGuy, psilocynic, G2geek, Unit Zero, IL clb

        Adam B's post illuminating. I was all set to rec this diary until I read the email Smashwords received. Bestiality, underage erotica and rape-for-titillation are NOT sex. All three are forms of rape. Many times, incest is also rape.

        Would a ban on smurf movies offend your free-to-publish-anything philosophy? If so, why? If not, why not? These are sincere questions on my part; I detest censorship but I draw the line at fictional depictions of violence toward victims. YMMV, and if so I'd love to know why.

        Rakoff for president! "An application of judicial power that does not rest on facts is worse than mindless, it is inherently dangerous.."

        by davidincleveland on Wed Feb 29, 2012 at 06:02:03 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  i think it depends in some of these cases. (9+ / 0-)

          what if a book has a scene where two teenagers have sex? do we ban that?

          What about themes of familial sex? I'm not condoning incest, but I'm saying, as a writer (screenwriter), it exists and could be a primary source of tension and conflict in a story - a significant part of the plot. Do we want to start banning anything unpleasant and uncomfortable?

          I found the opening scene of The Accused where Jodie Foster is being gang raped on a pinball machine (IIRC) so troubling and uncomfortable I had to leave the theater. But I came back. This is what art is about - pushing the boundaries.

          Will pay pal restrict paying for bibles using its service? There's plenty of rape and incest and underage sex (and who knows what else) in there. And a lot of explicit depictions of sex - Song of Solomon is one of the most erotic books every written, IMO.

          What about books about sex? How to books? Kama Sutra books? Will those be banned as well?

          But more to the point, these uncomfortable themes are a part of fiction and a part of the tension of life. The represent obstacles and frailties that must be overcome or conquered somehow. Moreover, how do we determine what's overly sexual (in a bad way) or what's OK? Is someone reading all those books and if so, how do they decide that THIS sex scene is OK but THAT one isn't?

          I've become re-radicalized. Thanks a lot you bunch of oligarchical fascist sons-of-bitches. But once again, I have no choice. Bring it the fuck on.

          by mdmslle on Wed Feb 29, 2012 at 06:46:42 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I certainly wasn't specific enough. I am NEVER in (0+ / 0-)

            favor of banning books about sex. In the day, I was one of those who successfully demanded that "Lady Chatterley's Lover" and "Tropic of Cancer" be sold in Cleveland bookstores.

            Rape is not sex.
            Rape is NOT sex.
            RAPE IS NOT SEX.
            RAPE IS NOT SEX.

            Rape-for-titillation, bestiality and prepubertal eroticism[1] are all forms of rape. I spent a year as a counselor at a rape crisis center. I have also been gang-raped myself. I am opposed to the glorification of violence-disguised-as-sex. About your examples: How-to books are instruction manuals. I (personally) don't get aroused by instructions, even in the Kama Sutra. If someone pastes together a pastiche of bible parts which contains only the rapes, foreskin acquisitions and violent[2] incest, I suspect paypal would object. I have never seen "The Accused" because of that scene. I had a friend describe it to me, the night he recommended I not go to see it. Since I've never seen it, my opinion that the director could have made all the same points without being so graphic that rape victims can't watch it[3] has no objective validity. This paragraph

            ..[T]hese uncomfortable themes are a part of fiction and a part of the tension of life. The represent obstacles and frailties that must be overcome or conquered somehow. Moreover, how do we determine what's overly sexual (in a bad way) or what's OK? Is someone reading all those books and if so, how do they decide that THIS sex scene is OK but THAT one isn't?
            is one I fully agree with, but you're talking about sex scenes. My contention is that a rape scene is NEVER a sex scene. Ever.
            ______________
            [1] I use "prepubertal" instead of "underage" and hope that it is what paypal means. If what they mean is non-violent teen sex, then I vigorously object to their censorship.
            [2] Think Tamar, not Cain and Abel's sisters.
            [3] I know 3 women and 1 other man who won't view the movie for the same reason I can't/won't.

            Rakoff for president! "An application of judicial power that does not rest on facts is worse than mindless, it is inherently dangerous.."

            by davidincleveland on Wed Feb 29, 2012 at 09:43:18 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  "Fictional depiction of violence toward victims"? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Lupin

          So, to be clear, and these are also sincere questions on my part to understand your position, you would be in favor of banning virtually-all video games, from Grand Theft Auto to Halo, right down to Mario bros. (look at him violently stomp on the heads of various creatures)? You would also be in favor of banning all of the 100,000,000+ mystery, suspense, and horror movies or books that include any violent act toward an innocent (now obviously anyone can be a "victim", but I'm presuming you meant an innocent victim, even though you did not say so)?

          Frankly my mind is so blown by your proposal that I'm having trouble thinking straight, but off the top of my head you would propose banning the works of such luminaries as Dorothy Hughes, Ira Levin, even several Agatha Christie or P.D. James novels if my memory is serving me. You would propose banning from sale classics like Steven King's The Shining? What about Vladimir Nabokov's Lolita? There you have underage erotica and violent acts, no? Should it be banned too? What is a violent act? If your including punches or kicks God help us all. For that matter, your stated position is so absurd I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and a chance to rephrase as I'm assuming you want to.

          (-7.62, -6.31), Blood type "O", Democratic-socialist, social anarchist, KY-01, "When smashing monuments, save the pedestals. They always come in handy." — Stanisław Lem

          by Setsuna Mudo on Wed Feb 29, 2012 at 06:47:47 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  *you're (0+ / 0-)

            (-7.62, -6.31), Blood type "O", Democratic-socialist, social anarchist, KY-01, "When smashing monuments, save the pedestals. They always come in handy." — Stanisław Lem

            by Setsuna Mudo on Wed Feb 29, 2012 at 06:48:49 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

          •  I don't remember having to rape a dog in either of (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            mdmslle, Unit Zero, davidincleveland

            those games?

            Lo que separa la civilizacion de la anarquia son solo siete comidas.

            by psilocynic on Wed Feb 29, 2012 at 06:49:34 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  ... (0+ / 0-)

              This is why I dislike the main site, it's overrun with trolls and the insipid. Why is it so freaking impossible to have a reasonable discussion anywhere? Now I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you skimmed and need to re-read the comments. Although that's something you should have done in the first place before acting like this.

              (-7.62, -6.31), Blood type "O", Democratic-socialist, social anarchist, KY-01, "When smashing monuments, save the pedestals. They always come in handy." — Stanisław Lem

              by Setsuna Mudo on Wed Feb 29, 2012 at 06:56:33 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Acting like what? (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                mdmslle, Unit Zero, davidincleveland

                Acting like I disagree with your absurd position. You're a joke. UID 324k calling me a troll. Fuck off. I should HR you for the insult, but I'm better than that.

                Lo que separa la civilizacion de la anarquia son solo siete comidas.

                by psilocynic on Wed Feb 29, 2012 at 07:01:46 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  hey setsuna, if you want reasonable discourse (5+ / 0-)

                try not calling people insipid trolls.

                wow.

                Look, you have a point. And there are those who will disagree but your tone really comes across as belittling.

                For that matter, your stated position is so absurd I'll give you the benefit of the doubt
                and
                This is why I dislike the main site, it's overrun with trolls and the insipid. Why is it so freaking impossible to have a reasonable discussion anywhere? Now I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you skimmed and need to re-read the comments. Although that's something you should have done in the first place before acting like this
                Really? That's not the tone of someone who wants to have an honest conversation. Or only want people to agree.

                Rethink it.

                I've become re-radicalized. Thanks a lot you bunch of oligarchical fascist sons-of-bitches. But once again, I have no choice. Bring it the fuck on.

                by mdmslle on Wed Feb 29, 2012 at 07:06:07 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

            •  perhaps not but I can guarantee that somewhere (5+ / 0-)

              in the history of literature and film, there's been a bestiality scene.

              does caligula count?

              Look, what we're talking about here is not whether these things are good or bad in real life. We're talking about finctional depictions of them in books (and possibly by extension art and film) and whether there is some sort of logical justification for not allowing them to be sold (#1) and #2 what criteria are being used to separate the acceptable from the unacceptable.

              I think saying incest, rape, underage sex and bestiality isn't enough, frankly. There are far too many classic works that include such troubling and difficult themes. So it has to be something else. If so, what is it?

              I've become re-radicalized. Thanks a lot you bunch of oligarchical fascist sons-of-bitches. But once again, I have no choice. Bring it the fuck on.

              by mdmslle on Wed Feb 29, 2012 at 06:56:49 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Sure, but do you understand the (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                mdmslle, Unit Zero, davidincleveland

                reason these were pulled? They were thinly veiled rape porn fiction books. I have no problem with PayPals decision on this  instance and conflating these books with videogame just because the video games are violent is the height of absurdity.

                Lo que separa la civilizacion de la anarquia son solo siete comidas.

                by psilocynic on Wed Feb 29, 2012 at 07:08:50 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  I didn't say that. (0+ / 0-)

                  I asked him to clarify saying he wanted to ban all things that had "fictional depiction of violence against victims". In fact, that was right in the title of my comment so I'm struggling to understand what you think I said because what I did say was pretty darn clear. wtf kind of comment is it to but into someone else's conversation and say "I don't remember raping dogs in Halo..." Well thank you, now how is that relevant?

                  (-7.62, -6.31), Blood type "O", Democratic-socialist, social anarchist, KY-01, "When smashing monuments, save the pedestals. They always come in handy." — Stanisław Lem

                  by Setsuna Mudo on Wed Feb 29, 2012 at 07:13:19 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I'm sorry, you want me to follow you (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    mdmslle, trumpeter, davidincleveland

                    on your little foray off topic and let you conflate fictionalized rape porn with video games? Nope, sorry. Stay on topic and we can chat.  

                    Lo que separa la civilizacion de la anarquia son solo siete comidas.

                    by psilocynic on Wed Feb 29, 2012 at 07:17:23 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I don't see how I'm not clear when I say (1+ / 2-)
                      Recommended by:
                      GoGoGoEverton
                      Hidden by:
                      mdmslle, progdog

                      I'm not talking to you, I never was talking to you, not that you would be making any sense even if I had been, but nevermind. For that matter, what in God's name makes you think I would want to discuss anything with you the way you're acting? Now if you had some sort of rational question for me then sure (what do you want? what are you so outraged by? I still don't know) I would have been happy to answer.

                      Only you never asked me anything and we never debated anything, you randomly jabbed yourself into my conversation with someone else to leave a super-rude and off-topic comment. But forget it, congratulations, you have successfully derailed any chance of anyone having anything approaching a sane conversation in this thread. Thanks for conforming to every negative stereotype about internet commenters, in fact maybe you should note how happy you are I'm leaving in ALL CAPS

                      wtf?

                      (-7.62, -6.31), Blood type "O", Democratic-socialist, social anarchist, KY-01, "When smashing monuments, save the pedestals. They always come in handy." — Stanisław Lem

                      by Setsuna Mudo on Wed Feb 29, 2012 at 07:25:07 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  no you derailed it yourself Setsuna. Sorry. (5+ / 0-)

                        You couldve had a nice discussion here.

                        the only way to have a two way conversation on this blog is to send a private message. Otherwise you might notice: there's a little link under EVRY COMMENT that says "reply to this". It's not restricted to those you were "having a conversation with". It's open to anyone who's logged in.

                        If you want to have a two way conversation and leave others out, send a PM. Otherwise, anyone on this blog can reply to any comment you post even if your reply was intended to address someone else. It's why we have threaded comments.

                        welcome to dkos.

                        I've become re-radicalized. Thanks a lot you bunch of oligarchical fascist sons-of-bitches. But once again, I have no choice. Bring it the fuck on.

                        by mdmslle on Wed Feb 29, 2012 at 07:36:39 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  I don't think Setasuna's tone was any different (0+ / 0-)

                          than psilocynic's, and I don't think either is HR'able per the FAQ, but if you're going to do it to one, do it to the other.

                          Today, strive to be the person you want to be.

                          by GoGoGoEverton on Wed Feb 29, 2012 at 09:31:15 AM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                        •  You're engaged with this poster (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          GoGoGoEverton

                          in this thread. You shouldn't be dropping HRs. Rule violation.

                          •  what? Please reread FAQ. I'm not in a fight (0+ / 0-)

                            with this poster. In fact, I actually agreed with his position in many of my comments.

                            I'm within my right to HR him. I am explaining why (and have been warning him) and you'll also notice he's never responded to me. His beef is with psilocynic not me.

                            I tried giving him some tips about discourse and ended up having to hr him.

                            You might take a look at the time stamps on the comments. My activity with him is not sequential. I'm within my right to hr him as he wasn't engaged with me at all.

                            I've become re-radicalized. Thanks a lot you bunch of oligarchical fascist sons-of-bitches. But once again, I have no choice. Bring it the fuck on.

                            by mdmslle on Wed Feb 29, 2012 at 02:16:29 PM PST

                            [ Parent ]

                      •  A non-endorsing uprate per abuse. nt (0+ / 0-)

                        Today, strive to be the person you want to be.

                        by GoGoGoEverton on Wed Feb 29, 2012 at 09:31:38 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                  •  Hey satsuna, stop it. npobody is butting into (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    davidincleveland

                    a conversation. This is a blog and there are threaded comments. You're skirting an HR from me at this point because all your comments are confrontational and show an abject lack of understanding how this nblog works.

                    Psilocynic can add his own comment to your response to davidincleveland. What? you think the conversation is locked between just you and dave? um, no. If so send him a private message. Otherwise anyone can respond to any comment on the blog.

                    This could be (and should have been - and perhaps still could be) an interesting conversation. You're hamstringing it.

                    I've become re-radicalized. Thanks a lot you bunch of oligarchical fascist sons-of-bitches. But once again, I have no choice. Bring it the fuck on.

                    by mdmslle on Wed Feb 29, 2012 at 07:26:08 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                •  Well to be fair, I didnt mention the video game (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  psilocynic, davidincleveland

                  at all. I don't play them.

                  As far as the veiled rape porn fiction, I totally understand the idea. I understand what you're saying. And I don't favor it either (understatment). But it seems we're left with the same old problem: what is erotica/explicit and what is porn/explicit? What "crosses the line"? and as one commenter in this thread said, we all say "you know it when you see it". The question is, do we? and who's doing the seeing? What separates a rape scene description in a book from a "thinly veiled rape porn" description in a book? Is it possible that we could quantify that and remove the ambiguity?

                  How do we describe it in a way that we can apply the same standard across the board? What is it that makes one "thinly veiled rape porn" and another an uncomfortable description of a rape?

                  I've become re-radicalized. Thanks a lot you bunch of oligarchical fascist sons-of-bitches. But once again, I have no choice. Bring it the fuck on.

                  by mdmslle on Wed Feb 29, 2012 at 07:15:41 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I think it comes down to what is art (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    mdmslle, davidincleveland

                    and what is blatant porn. I read the original article the other day and the excerpts used as examples made me cringe. Not artful at all.

                    Lo que separa la civilizacion de la anarquia son solo siete comidas.

                    by psilocynic on Wed Feb 29, 2012 at 07:19:22 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  yeah, I read an excerpt from a book (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      psilocynic, davidincleveland

                      that was on a blog. The blogger was mocking this book that was just page after page of weirdness, rape and more weirdness. It was really bad. In fact I think it's actually a meme online it was so bad and got so much attention. But I do wonder whether it would be banned from using pay pal.

                      I think there are obvious ones where the writer somehow seems to communicate that it's exciting to describe in detail the rape of a child or something. I do think there are grey areas though, oddly enough.

                      It seems to me that Pay pal is using a broad brush. So that the publishers are scrambling and I;m wondering the effect on the authors. What if you've written a very steamy romance? I guess the issue for me is: what's getting labeled and how, and to a lesser degree, by whom. And is this something that can be applied consistently?

                      I think a flagging system might work better but that doesn't seem to be the route PayPal chose. And I do have sympathy for their legal position as well. So I'm not in the "BAD! BAD! paypal!" camp.

                      I've become re-radicalized. Thanks a lot you bunch of oligarchical fascist sons-of-bitches. But once again, I have no choice. Bring it the fuck on.

                      by mdmslle on Wed Feb 29, 2012 at 07:33:40 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  That's a good point. (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        mdmslle, davidincleveland

                        My opinion is entirely based on the few excerpts I read (and I think they picked pretty tame ones). I wonder if nabokov would be banned. I'm sure there are some books that got pulled that maybe shouldn't have and there might be a case made for those books. But to me the difference is how rape is portrayed in the movie The Accused as opposed to rape being portrayed to give guys a hard-on. Fictionalized depictions of rape that are relevant to the story and the characters within were not, to my understanding, pulled from that sight.

                        Lo que separa la civilizacion de la anarquia son solo siete comidas.

                        by psilocynic on Wed Feb 29, 2012 at 07:51:29 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  yeah. I agree about the way the rapes would be (2+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          psilocynic, davidincleveland

                          depicted and I think the language used would be quite obvious. Easy to tell.

                          I'm wondering if there's an appeal process or some recourse of action for writers who wind up banned from pay pal? A review option, of sorts.

                          I hope this continues to evolve in such a way that we can get the really bad potentially harmful stuff out while leaving some latitude for uncomfortable themes.

                          I've become re-radicalized. Thanks a lot you bunch of oligarchical fascist sons-of-bitches. But once again, I have no choice. Bring it the fuck on.

                          by mdmslle on Wed Feb 29, 2012 at 08:36:23 AM PST

                          [ Parent ]

              •  There's a difference, I think ... (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                davidincleveland

                ... between including something as a theme, versus eroticizing it as the central focus on the fictional work.

          •  I was not clear. What I SHOULD have written was (0+ / 0-)

            Fictional depictions of violence toward victims disguised as SEX. I hope this clears it up for you. Most kossaks would have understood that the bolded words above were always intended to be understood, since they would read the sentence in context with the rest of my comment. Unfortunately, I wasn't addressing "most kossaks," I directed my statement and questions to you.

            I was wrong to assume that level of understanding in you, as your response (and response to others here) makes clear. Please forgive me for overestimating your intellect. As for the attempt to put bannings in my mouth, you only got those from the top of your head if it comes to a point. Your notion that victims can be separated into "innocent" and "not innocent" categories is beyond absurd.

            Rakoff for president! "An application of judicial power that does not rest on facts is worse than mindless, it is inherently dangerous.."

            by davidincleveland on Wed Feb 29, 2012 at 08:45:06 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  I'm with you on that. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          davidincleveland

          If they were trying to censor consenting-adult stuff, that would be a problem.

          But it looks like Neal Horsely is going to have to seek out his barnyard animal stuff elsewhere.  

          And yes I'd do something about graphic violence too.  The place where I draw the line is where it gets graphic and where it's used to glorify or encourage criminality.  

          As for hate speech, make it illegal.  Canada and Germany aren't tyrannical regimes and they seem to get along quite well without people being "free" to stir up racial and other hatreds.

          "Minus two votes for the Democrat" equals "plus one vote for the Republican." Arithmetic doesn't care about your feelings.

          by G2geek on Wed Feb 29, 2012 at 07:39:08 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Do you think (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          davidincleveland, Setsuna Mudo

          the bible should be banned?  

    •  So if I want to watch Chinatown (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Lupin

      I can't use PayPal?

      Are they going to shut down service on Sunday (or Shabbat)  next?

      Fake Left, Drive Right . . . not my idea of a Democrat . . .

      by Deward Hastings on Wed Feb 29, 2012 at 05:50:41 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  "whew!" (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      davidincleveland

      From the diary one might have thought they were going after consenting adult type porn.

      Porn doesn't do anything for me, but censorship of consenting adult porn has to be fought the same way as attempts to restrict access to birth control including abortion.  

      But bestiality etc..?  That not consent and that's not adults.  

      "Minus two votes for the Democrat" equals "plus one vote for the Republican." Arithmetic doesn't care about your feelings.

      by G2geek on Wed Feb 29, 2012 at 07:34:43 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Very Interesting (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    psilocynic, martini, davidincleveland

    I guess the authors should just try to take cash only for their e-books.

    "I'll believe that corporations are people when I see Rick Perry execute one."

    by bink on Wed Feb 29, 2012 at 05:51:20 AM PST

  •  yet another reason that there's a need (6+ / 0-)

    for a e-tranfer financial service that isn't tied to the likes of Meg Whitman and Peter Thiel.

    You can add to list of books that PayPal does't want soiling their bank accounts:

    All of George R R Martin's 'A Song of Ice & Fire" series, which has twincest, brutality, abuse of animals (well, not sexual abuse of animals, but the Mountain the Rides swings his sword and cuts the head off his own horse after an unsatifying performance in a joust), several rapes and sexual abuse of women that would be considered underage by today's laws, but in the medieval world that Martin bases his novels on would be considered to be adults.

    The overwhelming problem, as always, with erotica/pornography is that everyone knows it when they see it, but how can that knowledge be quantified to apply to all such work without there being censorship? And who is the censor?

  •  Try asking someone (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    trumpeter, Lupin

    the "standards" are totally capricious. References to "beastiality, rape and underage" are nothing but boilerplate. 4 years ago, when all this started, people being censored compared notes to try too understand what was going on - there were 3 theories: wives finding credit card bills and frightened husbands lying about identity theft, an attempt to force out smaller erotic material providers for the benefit of the high profit companies, and a small (literally a single digit number) of people on a power trip.

    Do not expect that if you know a title or an author it or his works will be banned. If paypal or ebay or visa is making enough profit it is safe. Should some "Mothers Against Dirty Dancing" pops up they look at the sales figures and either pay lip service or drop the Monty Python 16 ton weight.

    For the record: I had a web site shut down because it had a link to another site which had 1 image where a "creature from the black lagoon" type monster killed a man (shown from an angle where only some blood was shown). To further illustrate my point the offending image was part of a series which continued with the creature kidnapping the victim's girlfriend, raping her, and selling her to a multinational corporation which traded her to a vampire to pay for the vampire's cooperation in mind controlling a politician - none of which was mentioned.

    Like all censorship issues we are not dealing with rational , sincere people, but a coalition of mentally unstable, sadistic authoritarians. Think Charles Taylor hiring Rick Santorum to  manage a cable tv network. - these people are worse.

  •  Pay Pal is going to get it's comeuppance (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Lupin

    There are plenty of new services similar to paypall that would love to take their business from them. Stripe and Dwolla to name two.

    When I cannot sing my heart. I can only speak my mind.

    by Unbozo on Wed Feb 29, 2012 at 03:32:37 PM PST

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