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In a series of emails released by Wikileaks yesterday from the Stratfor dump, Fred Burton, Stratfor's Vice President of Counterterrorism and Corporate Security, claims that sources told him that bin Laden's body was taken to Dover, Delaware and then to Bethesda, Maryland (Armed Forces Institute of Pathology).

Kevin Gosztola reported this in his daily liveblog:

9:04 AM EST The emails show Fred Burton was given updates after Osama bin Laden was killed until his body allegedly arrived in Dover, Delaware.

Vice President of Intelligence Fred Burton wrote in an email, “Body is Dover bound, should be here by now.” This came after he wrote in another email:

   

If body dumped at sea, which I doubt, the touch is very Adolph Eichman like. The Tribe did the same thing with the Nazi’s ashes.

    We would want to photograph, DNA, fingerprint, etc.

    His body is a crime scene and I don’t see the FBI nor DOJ letting that happen.

On May 5, 2011, he reported the body is “airborne to CONUS.” CONUS is a Defense Department term for the contiguous United States. He even shared the exact location where the body was going saying that same day it was going “onward to the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology in Bethesda.” Bethesda is in Maryland just outside of Washington, DC.

Though it was not really secret information, Burton’s source in the FBI told him there was a likelihood of “retaliation attacks in CONUS.”

Also, Burton shared this perspective on why photos needed to be made public:

   

Although I don’t really give a rats ass, it seems to methat by dropping the corpse in the ocean, the body will come back to haunt us….gotta be violating some sort of obscure heathen religious rule that will inflame islam? I was sleeping thru that class at Langley.

    The US Govt needs to make body pics available like the MX’s do, with OBL’s pants pulled down, to shout down the lunatics like Alex Jones and Glenn Beck.

Here is what Greg Mitchell (also liveblogging) had to say about it:
10:30  Not sure what to make of new emails showing that Statfor's now famous Fred Burton believed bin Laden's body NOT dumped at sea but transported to Maryland.  He's pretty certain of it--but still hearsay.   Here's his first email.  Probably not much more to it.

Here are the relevant emails from three sections of Wikileaks dump, with links:

[alpha] Body
Email-ID     1102694
Date     2011-05-02 05:41:24
From     burton@stratfor.com
To     alpha@stratfor.com
List-Name     alpha@stratfor.com

Airborne to CONUS

Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
http://wikileaks.org/...

[alpha] OBL
Email-ID     1094322
Date     2011-05-02 05:26:15
From     burton@stratfor.com
To     alpha@stratfor.com
List-Name     alpha@stratfor.com
Reportedly, we took the body with us. Thank goodness.

Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
http://wikileaks.org/...

[alpha] Killed by Ground Branch
Email-ID     1094301
Date     2011-05-02 05:12:09
From     burton@stratfor.com
To     alpha@stratfor.com
List-Name     alpha@stratfor.com
CIA
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
[alpha] OBL
Email-ID     1092275
Date     2011-05-02 05:33:15
From     burton@stratfor.com
To     alpha@stratfor.com
List-Name     alpha@stratfor.com
We told the Pakis after we killed him. But, will praise GOP publicly. All spin and bullshit.

Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T



FBI (more) on Body
Email-ID     1666377
Date     2011-05-02 15:11:03
From     burton@stratfor.com
To     secure@stratfor.com
Down & dirty done, He already sleeps with the fish....

** Fred's Note: Although I don't really give a rats ass, it seems to me
that by dropping the corpse in the ocean, the body will come back to haunt
us....gotta be violating some sort of obscure heathen religious rule that
will inflame islam? I was sleeping thru that class at Langley.

The US Govt needs to make body pics available like the MX's do, with OBL's
pants pulled down, to shout down the lunatics like Alex Jones and Glenn
Beck.
http://wikileaks.org/...



[alpha] Body bound for Dover, DE on CIA plane
Email-ID     1102718
Date     2011-05-02 05:51:12
From     burton@stratfor.com
To     alpha@stratfor.com
List-Name     alpha@stratfor.com
Than onward to the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology in Bethesda.

Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
http://wikileaks.org/...

Re: OBL's corpse
Email-ID     1097638
Date     2011-05-02 13:36:41
From     burton@stratfor.com
To     analysts@stratfor.com, friedman@att.blackberry.net
List-Name     analysts@stratfor.com
Body is Dover bound, should be here by now.

On 5/2/2011 6:35 AM, George Friedman wrote:

Eichmann was seen alive for many months on trial before being sentenced
to death and executed. No one wanted a monument to him so they cremated
him. But i dont know anyone who claimed he wasnt eicjhman. No comparison
with suddenly burying him at sea without any chance to view him which i
doubt happened.

Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Fred Burton
Sender: analysts-bounces@stratfor.com
Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 06:26:07 -0500 (CDT)
To:
ReplyTo: Analyst List
Subject: OBL's corpse
If body dumped at sea, which I doubt, the touch is very Adolph Eichman
like. The Tribe did the same thing with the Nazi's ashes.

We would want to photograph, DNA, fingerprint, etc.

His body is a crime scene and I don't see the FBI nor DOJ letting that
happen.
http://wikileaks.org/...

The official story about bin Laden's body was:
Osama Bin Laden: What happened to his body?
Religious rites were carried out on the deck of a US aircraft carrier, the USS Carl Vinson. The body, shrouded in a white sheet and placed in a weighted bag, was then positioned on a flat board, tipped up, and eased into the Arabian Sea.

This occurred at 0600GMT, approximately 12 hours after the firefight during which Osama Bin Laden was shot in the head.

[ ... ]

The body was then flown to Afghanistan and Bin Laden's identity was confirmed. Officials say a DNA sample was taken that matched that of several other family members. Some sources say facial recognition technology was also used.

From Afghanistan, the body was, it appears, flown to the USS Carl Vinson.

So clearly, there is a pretty big difference between the official story and the story in Fred Burton's email.  That's about all we can surmise from this whole thing at this point.

The official story came from officials so it should have some high level of credibility.

The Stratfor story allegedly came from emails from Fred Burton, a counterrorism expert who has a lot of experience and presumably some level of credibility too, assuming that these emails were written by him and his sources were credible.

Fred Burton:

Fred Burton is Stratfor's vice president for intelligence,12 and is considered "one of the world's foremost experts on security, terrorists and terrorist organizations."34

Burton was a special agent with the U.S. Diplomatic Security Service.

Burton was also appointed by Washington to assist in the investigation of the assassination of Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin. He is the former deputy chief of the counterterrorism division of the U.S. State Department’s Diplomatic Security Service. Mr. Burton also investigated the killing of Rabbi Meir Kahane; the al Qaeda New York City bombing plots before the September 11 attacks; and the Libyan-backed terrorist attacks against diplomats in Sana'a and Khartoum. He was involved in the arrest of Ramzi Yousef, the mastermind of the first World Trade Center bombing in 1993.

Burton is the author of a memoir, Ghost: Confessions of a Counterterrorism Agent, published by Random House in 2008,3 and Chasing Shadows: A Special Agent's Lifelong Hunt to Bring a Cold War Assassin to Justice, published by Palgrave Macmillan in 2011.4

Burton was appointed to the Texas Border Security Council on September 11, 2007 by Governor Rick Perry.[5]

In August 2009 he was hired as the Texas Department of Public Safety's Assistant Director for Intelligence and Counter-Terrorism but left after 2 months to pursue his writing and speaking career.

I'm not sure what to think.
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Comment Preferences

  •  its somewhat comforting to know that (16+ / 0-)

    Fred Burton also thinks Alex Jones and glen beck are insane.

    Lo que separa la civilizacion de la anarquia son solo siete comidas.

    by psilocynic on Thu Mar 01, 2012 at 11:24:22 AM PST

  •  Hearsay from an anti-semite, looks like, IMO (10+ / 0-)
    The Tribe did the same thing with the Nazi's ashes.

    I ♥ President Barack Obama.

    by ericlewis0 on Thu Mar 01, 2012 at 11:25:59 AM PST

    •  It might just be op-speak (11+ / 0-)

      These guys use codewords and abbreviations so often I doubt they realize they're even doing it. Though this is also a group of the most militant, jingoist, testosterone laden alpha males the country can assemble. Tough call.

      "What profit a man, if he gain the world, but has to pay taxes on it?" Paul 8:36

      From the Gospel of St. Ron Paul in the Teachings and Misunderstandings of the Words of Adam Smith

      by ontheleftcoast on Thu Mar 01, 2012 at 11:31:33 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Possibly (7+ / 0-)

      Actually that part was a commentary/response from the CEO, George Friedman.  

      Burton was claiming that the information came from the FBI.

      It could be a bunch of bologna from an anti-semite.  I don't know, but we do know that whatever they are, they sell a lot of intelligence and we know that Burton has a lot of experience with the govt and govt related work.


      "Justice is a commodity"

      by joanneleon on Thu Mar 01, 2012 at 11:36:03 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Here is some bio on Friedman (7+ / 0-)

      from Wikipedia:

      Friedman’s childhood was shaped directly by international conflict. He was born in Hungary to Holocaust survivors. His family fled Hungary when he was a child to escape the Communist regime, settling first in a camp for displaced persons in Austria and then immigrating to the United States, where he attended public schools in New York City, and was an early designer of computerized war games. Friedman describes his family’s story as “a very classic story of refugees making a new life in America." He received a B.A. at the City College of New York, where he majored in political science, and a Ph.D. in government at Cornell University.[2]

      Prior to joining the private sector, Friedman spent almost twenty years in academia, teaching political science at Dickinson College. During this time, he also regularly briefed senior commanders in the armed services as well as the Office of Net Assessments, SHAPE Technical Center, the U.S. Army War College, National Defense University and the RAND Corporation, on security and national defense matters.[citation needed]

      Friedman pursued political philosophy with his early work focusing on Marxism, as well as international conflict, including examination of the U.S.-Soviet relationship from a military perspective. After the collapse of the Soviet Union, Friedman studied potential for a U.S.-Japan conflict and co-authored The Coming War with Japan in 1991. He is also the author or co-author of books examining topics as diverse as the Frankfurt School and warfare, including The Future of War, The next hundred years, The Intelligence Edge, and America’s Secret War.

      In 1996, he founded STRATFOR, a private intelligence and forecasting company, and has served as the company's CEO and Chief Intelligence Officer.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/...


      "Justice is a commodity"

      by joanneleon on Thu Mar 01, 2012 at 11:37:28 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  "member of the tribe" (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      joanneleon, cville townie, ericlewis0

      is sometimes said by one Jew to another as a token of recognition.  Perhaps I have missed it, but as far as I am aware it does not betoken anti-Semitism.  

      Scientific Materialism debunked here

      by wilderness voice on Thu Mar 01, 2012 at 11:59:25 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  ridiculous (7+ / 0-)
    The official story about bin Laden's body was:

       

    Osama Bin Laden: What happened to his body?
        Religious rites were carried out on the deck of a US aircraft carrier, the USS Carl Vinson. The body, shrouded in a white sheet and placed in a weighted bag, was then positioned on a flat board, tipped up, and eased into the Arabian Sea.

        This occurred at 0600GMT, approximately 12 hours after the firefight during which Osama Bin Laden was shot in the head.

        [ ... ]

        The body was then flown to Afghanistan and Bin Laden's identity was confirmed. Officials say a DNA sample was taken that matched that of several other family members. Some sources say facial recognition technology was also used.

        From Afghanistan, the body was, it appears, flown to the USS Carl Vinson.

    they held/transported the body for 12 hours after death.  that was plenty of time to fingerprint, DNA test, etc.  

    and there is no way in hell they dumped the body and then fished it back out of the arabian sea.  what on earth would be the point?

    My goal is to make the world safe for anarchy. - 4Freedom

    by Cedwyn on Thu Mar 01, 2012 at 11:26:47 AM PST

    •  That was published by the BBC (8+ / 0-)

      as you can see, on May 2.  I know that the story changed a couple times, or more details were released later.

      What source do you think is best for the official story?  Maybe a story from about a week later would be better.


      "Justice is a commodity"

      by joanneleon on Thu Mar 01, 2012 at 11:29:05 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Actually, after reading (7+ / 0-)

      your comment again, I think you misunderstood the BBC story, which was written a little awkwardly.

      They are not saying they fished the body out of the sea.  They are saying they took it to Afghanistan and then flew it out to the USS Carl Vinson.


      "Justice is a commodity"

      by joanneleon on Thu Mar 01, 2012 at 11:48:43 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  The first time... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        joanneleon

        ... I read/heard the story that OBL's body had been buried at sea, then that death pix were too gruesome to release but that certain US officials could view the pix if they wanted, my thought was:  'Hmmm....  How long will it be until we find out he wasn't buried at sea after all?  This story sounds too silly to be true.'

        'Flown to the US' has the ring of truth.  It's logical.

        [The horror story was that Michele Bachmann had just been appointed to the House "Intelligence Committee" not long before that, and that she went to view the OBL death photos to see for herself that OBL was dead.  I notice she criticizes Obama about many things, but never says a word about the fact that OBL was killed on his watch..., and not on Dumbya's, the fellow she smooched on the House floor like she had a schoolgirl crush on him.]

        I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

        by NonnyO on Thu Mar 01, 2012 at 02:22:10 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  interesting story... (9+ / 0-)

    sounds like one that is unlikely to ever be confirmed, but there should be lots of denials. B)

    i'm part of the 99% - america's largest minority

    by joe shikspack on Thu Mar 01, 2012 at 11:32:05 AM PST

  •  Wow... (10+ / 0-)

    that is interesting. I'm waiting to see what comes next.

    I shave my legs with Occam's razor.

    by triv33 on Thu Mar 01, 2012 at 11:32:23 AM PST

  •  The Official Govt Story Never Sounded Credible (8+ / 0-)

    Whether this true who knows? At some point more evidence will come out to clear things up.

    Existence is no more than the precarious attainment of relevance in an intensely mobile flux of past, present, and future.~~~ Susan Sontag

    by frandor55 on Thu Mar 01, 2012 at 11:38:29 AM PST

  •  They buried bin Laden (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    liberaldregs

    under the grassy knoll.

    Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

    by NMDad on Thu Mar 01, 2012 at 11:52:14 AM PST

    •  Heh (6+ / 0-)

      Cute.  

      People, our govt and major corporations buy intelligence from this company.  Look at the bio of the guy who wrote these emails.

      I have my doubts about them too.  But this is an item of interest from their company servers.  It was not presented as anything more than that.


      "Justice is a commodity"

      by joanneleon on Thu Mar 01, 2012 at 12:01:37 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I guess... (0+ / 0-)

        but what was the genesis of the emails?  

        If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. -- A.E.

        by lcj98 on Thu Mar 01, 2012 at 12:12:22 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  The genesis was (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          claude

          the contents of their email server.  Wikileaks will not disclose their source but we know that Anonymous hacked this company in December so it is almost certainly the data hacked from their servers.

          From Threat Level, Wired Magazine's blog on "privacy, crime and security online":

          Antisec Hits Private Intel Firm; Millions of Docs Allegedly Lifted

          The Antisec wing of Anonymous revealed on Saturday that it had compromised the servers of the private intelligence firm Strategic Forecasting Inc. — allegedly seizing millions of internal documents and thousands of credit card numbers from the company, more commonly known as Stratfor.

          That would be a major breach of private information from any firm. But this hack could prove particularly significant, because Stratfor serves as an information-gathering resource and open source intelligence analysis for both the U.S. military and for major corporations.


          "Justice is a commodity"

          by joanneleon on Thu Mar 01, 2012 at 12:28:22 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Burton, anti-terrorism "expert"... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    joanneleon, MRobDC, sacrelicious

    ...refers to Islamic custom as "heathen" and to Pakistanis as "Pakis". Good grief. The biggest news item out of this is that Burton is a bigoted nut when he thinks no one is watching.

    As for where OBL's body is -- who knows. Does it matter? I think Burton's narrative makes sense. I think the official story makes sense. I don't know which is accurate.

    it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses

    by Addison on Thu Mar 01, 2012 at 12:01:08 PM PST

    •  "Does it matter?" (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      joanneleon, KBO, NonnyO, claude

      What matters is whether or not we're told the truth.

      I don't mean the truth beforehand as to when and where they going to use a drone to bomb a group of people.

      And what else that matters is private companies being given classified/top secret information and what they do with it and who has oversight over these private companies.

      We delivered. They failed us. We have moved on. (h/t to my good friend)

      by gooderservice on Thu Mar 01, 2012 at 12:07:40 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  It doesn't matter much to me (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      KBO, NonnyO

      where the body is.  

      And yeah, they are neocons.


      "Justice is a commodity"

      by joanneleon on Thu Mar 01, 2012 at 12:08:09 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Remember when Bush said "Pakis"? (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      joanneleon, claude, sacrelicious

      Really insulting and foolish. Ignoramous Bush, but I think Burton knows full well what he's saying.

      The revolution will start when somebody starts it. Well, somebody started it. OWS. It's on.

      by lexalou on Thu Mar 01, 2012 at 12:21:26 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  An odd sort of ct (0+ / 0-)

      Dumping Bin Laden's body at sea didn't sit well in the Middle East (and the people who did it spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to do it without grossly insulting Muslim burial rites).  You wouldn't bother to fake something like that.  If the objective was to fake OBL's death, there are better ways to do it that are harder to second guess and less likely to offend conservative Muslims.  In the mean time, too many military personnel (not to mention Pakistanis) saw OBL getting whacked.  If they were all part of this alleged conspiracy, one of them would have come forward by now, book contract in hand.

      •  I don't think these emails (0+ / 0-)

        in any way suggest that he wasn't killed.  At issue is the disposal of the body. Their sources are claiming it was brought back to the US for analysis.

        At one point he does also talk about disposal at sea.  So it's possible it was a timing thing -- perhaps the timing was not as reported and both stories could be true?  I don't know.  


        "Justice is a commodity"

        by joanneleon on Thu Mar 01, 2012 at 01:21:26 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  ... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    joanneleon

    Why would the Obama Administration lie about how bin Laden's was deposed?...  These emails don't make much sense.

    If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. -- A.E.

    by lcj98 on Thu Mar 01, 2012 at 12:06:49 PM PST

  •  i am (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TFinSF, poco

    for sure believing whatever Burton says. He is the most intelligent man on Mars.

    From: Fred Burton [mailto:burton@stratfor.com]
    Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 7:41 AM
    To: secure@stratfor.com
    Subject: Insight - The Dems & Dirty Tricks * Internal Use Only - Pls Do
    Not Forward *

    * Internal Use Only - Pls Do Not Forward *

    1) The black Dems were caught stuffing the ballot boxes in Philly and Ohio as reported the night of the election and Sen. McCain chose not to fight. The matter is not dead inside the party. It now becomes a matter of sequence now as to how and when to "out".

    2) It appears the Dems "made a donation" to Rev. Jesse (no, they would never do that!) to keep his yap shut after his diatribe about the Jews and Israel. A little bird told me it was a "nice six-figure donation". This also becomes a matter of how and when to out.

    3) The hunt is on for the sleezy Russian money into O-mans coffers. A smoking gun has already been found. Will get more on this when the time is right. My source was too giddy to continue. Can you say Clinton and ChiCom funny money? This also becomes a matter of how and when to out.

    He is a froot-loop fabricator.

    But I guess that is what Daily Kos is for: to publish diaries sourced to froot-loop fabricators.

    •  Yeah, I saw that one (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      NonnyO, triv33

      If his sources are as bad as his opinions/political analysis, this info is not very credible.

      But neocon bigots can still have good sources from their ties to the govt, especially if there is money involved, as Assange has claimed -- sources being paid through prepaid debit cards, bank accounts, etc.  And there are still a lot of Bush/Cheney people in our govt. as far as I know.


      "Justice is a commodity"

      by joanneleon on Thu Mar 01, 2012 at 12:34:44 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Moles in DoJ... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        joanneleon

        First appointed by Dumbya, then made salaried employees so they stay there after Obama took office.

        And there are still a lot of Bush/Cheney people in our govt. as far as I know.
        Evidence connected to the Bridge to Nowhere was lost so charges against Stevens could not move forward.

        No one is pursuing anything against the lying war criminals.  On the contrary, the whistleblowers are now being pursued for prosecution instead of being protected.

        Unconstitutional laws were passed (Patriot Acts, MCA '06, FISA fiasco '08) and were extended under Obama, as is at least one unconstitutional office Dumbya set up with an executive order (office of faith-based initiatives which is run out of the White House).

        Corporations are running things that the government should be managing with government employees, and the MIC and oil corporations gain the most for the moment; in years to come, medical, insurance, and pharmaceutical corporations will also be making record-setting profits.  [Can anyone yet admit we're far down the road to official fascism without hysterically trying to silence those who are aware of this dangerous path being traveled?]

        Et cetera and so on and so forth.

        I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

        by NonnyO on Thu Mar 01, 2012 at 02:40:47 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Thanks, for the reminders (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          NonnyO

          NonnyO, I think :)

          I remember when Bush was reelected reading so many comments lamenting the fact that Bush/Cheney would be packing the agencies/depts with likeminded employees who would not be easy (or even possible) to weed out.  Eight years of neocon hires, some of whom probably despise the current Democratic leadership in Washington.

          I strongly agree with what you have written, particularly about the privatization of some functions that really should only use govt. employees because contractors are even worse than the Bush appointees, IMHO. In recent months I read about the number of people in the DC area with high security clearances.  I forget the number but it was absurdly high and many were private contractors, not govt. employees.  How in the world can they expect to maintain any kind of security with info?  There are so many things that have reached the level of absurdity.  In the intel world, that investigative project done under the Frontline/WaPo organizations (with Dana Priest) was stunning.  In fact I need to go and check to see if there is anything new.  I don't know if that project is complete yet.
          Top Secret America


          "Justice is a commodity"

          by joanneleon on Thu Mar 01, 2012 at 03:38:44 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Do you think (0+ / 0-)

      that the whole email dump has nothing of value because of that?


      "Justice is a commodity"

      by joanneleon on Thu Mar 01, 2012 at 12:37:01 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  i think (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        poco

        that people conversant with the world of intelligence agents understand that such people, particularly when they are would-be intelligence agents like Burton, usually come to have a relationship with the truth that is not recognizable to your average human.

        I also think that when Lindsay Lohan was sentenced to community service in a morgue, it was said that this indicated she is an MK-ULTRA-like sex/drug slave embroiled in Call to Chaos rites by a Freemasonic conspiracy involving US intelligence agents who previously controlled Marilyn Monroe and directed "Manchurian Candidate" assassin Sirhan Sirhan.

        This information was revealed in a tube. So presumably it is true.

        I think perhaps you should diary that.

        •  Nonsense (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          triv33

          Walmart, US Marines, Hunt Oil et al don't pay thousands to the people who make up conspiracy theories about Lindsay Lohan.

          Obviously I see what you are attempting to do and it's pretty slimy.

          What you have not addressed, blueness, is why our govt. and major corps are paying these guys if they have absolutely no credibility, and why the writer of these emails worked for the State dept and was involved in so many important, high profile cases/investigations.

          You are very ineffective and it's ironic given that you are discussing credibility.  If you want to completely discredit the source, provide plausible answers to those questions and explain why Stratfor has 300K subscribers.


          "Justice is a commodity"

          by joanneleon on Thu Mar 01, 2012 at 01:30:52 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  if (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            poco

            you don't understand "why our govt. and major corps are paying" these ineffective, slimy "guys [who] have absolutely no credibility," "people who make up conspiracy theories about [Osama bin Laden]," I cannot help you.

            Burton is a nutbar. But because he is a nutbar who fantasizes a Reality that is at odds with the Reality propounded by the Obama administration, he is the sort of nutbar that some people on this site live to eat.

          •  Sure they do (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            poco
            Walmart, US Marines, Hunt Oil et al don't pay thousands to the people who make up conspiracy theories
            I expect they have many,many subscriptions to a wide range of "analytical" newsletters, and I'm sure it's practically petty cash from them to request a "custom" analysis from multiple sources over specific issues.  They do this because they know the actual truth is in some Bermuda triangle between the various CT's and speculations and rumor mongering floating around.

            from a bright young conservative: “I’m watching my first GOP debate…and WE SOUND LIKE CRAZY PEOPLE!!!!”

            by Catte Nappe on Thu Mar 01, 2012 at 02:31:19 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  Not 'Would Be' but rather 'Former' intelligence (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          claude, triv33, joanneleon

          agent.  

          Burton was a special agent with the U.S. Diplomatic Security Service.

          Burton was also appointed by Washington to assist in the investigation of the assassination of Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin.

          He is the former deputy chief of the counterterrorism division of the U.S. State Department’s Diplomatic Security Service.

           Mr. Burton also investigated the killing of Rabbi Meir Kahane; the al Qaeda New York City bombing plots before the September 11 attacks; and the Libyan-backed terrorist attacks against diplomats in Sana'a and Khartoum.

          He was involved in the arrest of Ramzi Yousef, the mastermind of the first World Trade Center bombing in 1993.

          So it is not like he is some keyboard commando.

          The time has come to put the "Occ" in "DemOCCracy". Support (or create) the "Occupy" movement near you. Ordinary Citizens Count in this extraordinary Democcracy.

          by Into The Woods on Thu Mar 01, 2012 at 02:22:19 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  As I wrote here at the time, (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    joanneleon

    the only thing we actually know is that he is no longer 'out there' in the world.  We have no evidence that he's alive in captivity, dead and buried at sea or dead and somewhere else.  

    My opinion is that the scenario that makes the least sense is the "buried at sea" story.  The one that would make the most sense would be that we captured him for intelligence gathering purposes and put the story out that he was dead and there is no body to show for it.  But there's no evidence one way or the other.  

  •  The real significance (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Catte Nappe

    This reads like B-movie conspiracy theories.  It's the sort of stuff I'd expect to find on Free Republic, complete with dubious grammar and diction.  And a lot of serious bigotry and right wing crazy worldview.

    Except this is supposed to be from the senior executives of a major global intelligence research company.  It's not just the right wing idiocy, the stupidity, and the bigotry (and the inability to write a paragraph correctly).  These are the people who decide what information they're feeding to their clients.  And they are as disconnected from reality as any teabagger convention.

    If I were one of those Fortune 500 companies paying them for analysis or espionage or whatever, I'd really think about hiring someone else.

    •  It is pretty (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      claude

      astounding in a number of different ways.

      Look at their client list. 300K subscribers and clients they do other types of work for too.  Look at the guy's bio.  Look at the jobs he held and the high profile cases he was involved with. These are the types of people in the intel business?  Yep, astounding.  But none of that says they don't have credible sources in the FBI/CIA like they say they have.  It just might suggest there are many like minded folks in those agencies.  But look who was running our country when some of them were brought on board. Scary.  


      "Justice is a commodity"

      by joanneleon on Thu Mar 01, 2012 at 01:35:30 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  What I think (0+ / 0-)

    Early on (05:00 to 06:00) he's talking like he knows something, probably based on a lot of speculation going on and rumors flying everywhere and assumptions on what he would do if it was his to do.

    By 13:00 toward 15:00 he's settling down, dealing with the idea of reports that the body was buried at sea, not fully accepting that as the outcome and definitely not liking it if it was - and demanding pix.

    In short, he didn't "know" anything.

    from a bright young conservative: “I’m watching my first GOP debate…and WE SOUND LIKE CRAZY PEOPLE!!!!”

    by Catte Nappe on Thu Mar 01, 2012 at 02:25:20 PM PST

    •  Except that (0+ / 0-)

      the claim is that some of that info came from an FBI source.  The way these emails are being released is in batches and I am pretty sure that not all of them are being released, possibly because some of them have information that wl and the news agencies don't want to put out in the public because they might contain info, names, etc. that they don't want out there.  But the heading on at least one of the email sets says FBI.


      "Justice is a commodity"

      by joanneleon on Thu Mar 01, 2012 at 05:38:25 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Who was telling Burton this classified info? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    joanneleon

    I will be interested to see if there is a whistle-blower hunt that gets started on this.

    How would such a person be included in what would supposedly be a very small and tightly wound loop of people with access to this information?

    And who in government with authorized access to that info felt it necessary (and allowable) to share that info with a guy like this?  

    The time has come to put the "Occ" in "DemOCCracy". Support (or create) the "Occupy" movement near you. Ordinary Citizens Count in this extraordinary Democcracy.

    by Into The Woods on Thu Mar 01, 2012 at 02:26:04 PM PST

    •  Good questions (0+ / 0-)

      One of the email sets says FBI as if it was an FBI source.  In my comment above I speculate that some of the emails are not included, perhaps for redaction reasons.

      I also wonder if the govt is looking for leakers right now.  This particular information, if it was leaked by someone in one of the agencies, would be a big problem, I think.


      "Justice is a commodity"

      by joanneleon on Thu Mar 01, 2012 at 05:40:24 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

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