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If I'm his lawyer, I'm making damned sure everyone in the world has seen his broken nose, bashed in head, and medical reports.  So where are they?

Instead, we get a media hound claiming these things happened, with no supporting evidence.

Just saying...

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Comment Preferences

  •  Lacking Any Sane Investigation There's Little (6+ / 0-)

    evidence of any kind. Mike Papantonio who's been a prosecutor said if he's charged, any competent defense lawyer can get him off.

    All this bruhaha over the boy is jury nullification insurance, to make it unlikely for any jury to convict him, just in case.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Wed Mar 28, 2012 at 10:28:26 AM PDT

  •  He could have broke his own nose... (7+ / 0-)

    not that hard to do.

    •  Was that snark? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Be Skeptical

      I sure hope so.

      If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

      by HairyTrueMan on Wed Mar 28, 2012 at 10:37:03 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Why hope it's snark? (4+ / 0-)

        David was just saying, even if we DO see pictures the injuries could be faked.

        •  That's some realistic thinking. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Be Skeptical

          Good luck with that.

          If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

          by HairyTrueMan on Wed Mar 28, 2012 at 05:17:54 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Not sure I follow (0+ / 0-)

            Good luck with what? What is realistic thinking? Are you being serious or facetious? What are you trying to communicate here?

            I'm not saying anything, I was relaying my understanding of what David had said, as it appears you may have misunderstood. Let's back up and try to get clear: are you saying you don't think it possible that Zimmerman injured himself in order to bolster his defense?

      •  Nope. His injuries were not part (8+ / 0-)

        of the original police report.  They only came in subsequent reports.  This has been reported by the Miami Herald amongst other newspapers.
        The possibility that he was coached to portray the part of a self defense victim is very strong.

        •  He was facing murder charges (7+ / 0-)

          not outside the realm of possibility that he would injure himself on purpose to bolster a self defense claim.

          Honestly though, even if he WAS hit, I don't see why that matters. If some dude was following me around and intimidating me, I would probably cold cock him too.

          Tray was unarmed, Zimmerman had a gun. He was following him against the instructions of the 911 operator. Seems pretty clear cut who the aggressor was here.

          The world breaks everyone and afterward many are strong in the broken places ~Ernest Hemingway
          Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle ~ Anonymous

          by SwedishJewfish on Wed Mar 28, 2012 at 11:40:27 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I believe this is incorrect (4+ / 0-)

          The police report from that night indicates "Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and back of his head"

          http://www.scribd.com/...

          Clearly, that does not speak to the precise nature of his injuries, but it shows that reports that evening stated he was injured.

          •  If you just killed someone.... (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Gordon20024, Lost and Found

            I think you could find it within you to hit the back of your head a few times and give yourself a bloody nose.  

            None of it makes sense...

            That small boy was like a twig compared to this brute.  I do not see him being able to manhandle this large Zimmerman and bash his head against the ground.

            •  Uh, sure (3+ / 0-)

              I suppose right after you shot someone, you could have the presence of mind to fabricate an entire story and injure yourself, a la Ed Norton in Fight Club.

              Of course, the evidence shows that immediately after the shot was fired, there were several eye witnesses on the scene as people came out of their homes to see what happened. You'd think one of them would have noticed Zimmerman beating himself up, but whatever.

              •  Recoil (4+ / 0-)

                Ever fire a gun?  

                They can kick pretty hard.  If you're an inexperienced shooter, or too excited to remember your training, that kick is going to bring the gun back toward you.  It can smack you pretty hard.  

                Enough to break your nose and make you fall over?  Depends on how you were standing and how you were holding the weapon when you fired.  

                "Honesty is the best policy, but insanity is a better defense." Steve Landesberg, 1945-2010.

                by Califlander on Wed Mar 28, 2012 at 12:32:53 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Yep - both rolling around on the ground (3+ / 0-)

                  he pulls the gun - there is little distance between them ... he shoots with the gun a few inches from his nose .. Bam .. it could have broken his nose AND slammed him against the sidewalk causing a bleeding scratch on the back of his head.

                  That could also explain why Zimmerman doesn't say anything about the nose at first .. knowing it was caused by the gun ..

                  Who knows though ... I can't wait for some actual report or testimony .. if we ever get that.

                •  Okay, that's possible (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Be Skeptical

                  But just looking at the evidence that has seeped out into public, there is a witness who saw the two of them on the ground fighting, with Martin on top of Zimmerman. Your recoil theory might still apply, but there apparently is no doubt that there was a scrape between the two of them. Zimmerman's bleeding is evidence of that, but as you show, certainly not conclusive evidence. That said, it is also not the only evidence.

                •  That was my thought (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  DarkLadyNyara

                  It seems established that Trayvon knocked him down first (I certainly would, if a strange guy that followed me in his truck got out to follow me down the walkway and then got in my face).  Eyewitness accounts point to that fact - though whether they match up with the pummelling, head-slamming account of Zimmerman remains to be seen.
                  But it would be easy for a 9-mil to break someone's nose, if they're not used to it. And frankly, Zimmerman doesn't strike me as all that competent.

                  "Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain." - Napoleon Bonaparte (attributed)

                  by Jaxpagan on Wed Mar 28, 2012 at 01:25:25 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  And the witnesses saw Zimmerman pushing (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                David Kroning II, ZappoDave

                Trayvon's dead face-down body into the ground to keep Trayvon from getting up I suppose.

                Zimmerman did NOT roll Trayvon over and try to help him.

                No.

                Zimmerman had to put his hands upon Trayvon's back and make sure the kid could NOT get back up... as if his dead body could do such a thing.

                Since the police did NOT keep evidence... the clothing from Zimmerman is gone now... we have no clue whether the blood was Trayvon's. And a wet shirt back could easily happen because Zimmerman is a big guy and he was running.  Wet sweat could easily have cause the shirt wetness.

                Finally, this happened at sunset. Many witnesses remark that it was dark and difficult to see. Not sure how the police and any one else can say with certainty that the wet shirt from Zimmerman was from a fight and not from sweat or even running past a sprinkler.


                One may live without bread, but not without roses.
                ~Jean Richepin
                Bread & Roses

                by bronte17 on Wed Mar 28, 2012 at 12:33:30 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I believe (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Be Skeptical

                  The witness you are referring is Mary Cutcher, who said "We heard a whining. Not like a crying, boohoo, but like a whining, someone in distress, and then the gunshot."

                  At that point, Cutcher said she looked at her window, but could not see anything in the dark. She said she ran out a sliding glass door, and within seconds, they saw Zimmerman.

                  "Zimmerman was standing over the body with -- basically straddling the body with his hands on Trayvon's back," Cutcher said. "And it didn't seem to me that he was trying to help him in any way."

                  You state, "Zimmerman had to put his hands upon Trayvon's back and make sure the kid could NOT get back up."

                  Maybe you are right, but my question for you is, how do you know why he put his hands on his back. There are other possible explanations for what Zimmerman was doing.

                  •  "Other possible explanations" are the job of (0+ / 0-)

                    the defense.

                    Help yourself to Zimmerman.

                    He has the entire gun industry, NRA, wingnuts and racist bigots on his side cheering and funding and helping.

                    I personally wouldn't lift a finger for him.


                    One may live without bread, but not without roses.
                    ~Jean Richepin
                    Bread & Roses

                    by bronte17 on Wed Mar 28, 2012 at 01:44:38 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  No. Those other possible explanations are the job (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Be Skeptical

                      of anyone who truly cares about determining the truth, as best we can, and who truly cares about justice for Treyvon Martin.

                      To me, justice means something different than simply revenge.

                      •  Oh my God, an apologist for murder! (0+ / 0-)

                        Just kidding...though if you insist on the truth, or at least an acknowledgment that a poster's claim or scenario is mostly speculation, or note that the fragmentary evidence that has come out is confused and contradictory, then you risk seeing that response.
                        Good luck!

                      •  The "other explanations" and outright lies (0+ / 0-)

                        have filled the airwaves and newsprint.

                        Here on this site we explore other explanations for such things as "a wet shirt" or a bloody nose (which looks like it wasn't so bloody after all in a surveillance shot caught the night of the murder).

                        In fact, Zimmerman doesn't look AT ALL like the chubby portly guy in the pictures we've been seeing all this time.

                        He's actually a pretty fit skinhead-looking dude to me.

                        Here's the link that dear Horace put up for us to review.

                        I don't see any broken nor even bloody nose at all.

                        And, as Horace noted, the police aren't wearing gloves. So, if there had been blood present they would have had plastic gloves on for the biohazard.

                        What are you guys gonna high-five about now that YET ANOTHER LIE is revealed and this time it's about the bloody nose?


                        One may live without bread, but not without roses.
                        ~Jean Richepin
                        Bread & Roses

                        by bronte17 on Wed Mar 28, 2012 at 05:52:16 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Sure, that video is pretty damning (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          Be Skeptical

                          All I said was lets evaluate the evidence and try to get to to the truth as it pertain to Zimmerman's guilt or innocence.

                          This video looks like a damning piece of evidence for Zimmerman. Unless there is some explanation that is not apparent from the video, it seems to contradict his claim that he was in a fight in which his life was endangered.

              •  None of this really matters. He was the one (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                DarkLadyNyara

                doing the stalking. Didn't Trayvon have the right to stand HIS ground?

            •  there were witnesses (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              MGross, Caipirinha, Dr Swig Mcjigger

              There was less than 2 minutes before police arrived, and witnesses watching him for most of that.  Police received seven 911 calls after the shot was fired.  Once people heard a gunshot, they were looking out to see what was going on.  

              Also, Zimmerman was heavy, but only because he was overweight.  Martin at 6'3" had a half foot on him in height, and was more athletic.  If you've ever seen a fight, you know it's possible for the guy with longer reach to land a blow to the face and for the recipient to go down.  And often, whoever lands that first big blow ends up with an advantage.  It's not impossible that Martin was on top of Zimmerman, if that's really what witnesses saw.

              I don't think anyone witnessed who threw the first punch, so I don't think we know for sure how that really went down.  

              But it also seems unlikely that Zimmerman himself would have been able to manufacture evidence in the maybe 10-15 seconds he would have been unwatched.  If he tried to do something like that, I think there's a good chance he would get caught in his own lies.  There's too many possible witnesses, he couldn't know who might have seen what, and there would be physical evidence as well which would contradict him if he made this up.

              For sure the police must have forensic evidence as far as the angle of the bullet that entered Martin's chest.  And I'd like to know if there is an exit wound as well; if Zimmerman were the one on top, the bullet would have likely gone right into the ground at that spot.  The physical evidence ought to be enough to prove or disprove whether Zimmerman is lying on that point.

          •  Zimmerman was "cleared by SFD" (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            NYFM

            And his bleeding was only noticed by one of the officers in the report, not two.  

            Whatever injuries Zimmerman sustained, they were minor, otherwise he would not have been "cleared" for police custody.

            Shirley Chisholm was right. Our Republic is in deep trouble.

            by Big River Bandido on Wed Mar 28, 2012 at 02:39:40 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Do you think he broke his own nose? (0+ / 0-)

          When the evidence is presented to the Grand Jury and the paramedics and doctor(s) who treated him are questioned, try not to feel too silly.

          If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

          by HairyTrueMan on Wed Mar 28, 2012 at 05:19:37 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Well Hairy (who is quite contrary) (0+ / 0-)

            having just seen the video of him shortly after being cuffed, I think you might be the one feeling a bit silly.

            •  I think it's probably a manslaughter charge. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Be Skeptical

              But I could be wrong. We don't have all the facts yet. But the Grand Jury will see everything. I'm going to wait until we have all the facts before passing judgement like a good liberal should. And I'm going to ignore the partisan nonsense being spewed by both sides and focus on facts.

              If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

              by HairyTrueMan on Wed Mar 28, 2012 at 07:34:25 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Silliness (0+ / 0-)

              Someone above made the silly suggestion that Zimmerman may have intentionally broken his own nose.  Mr. Hairy was just noting how ridiculous that would sound if evidence is shown in court that Zimmerman had a broken nose and a prosecutor presented that theory in response.

              Who knows, maybe Z did have a broken nose.  I doubt it, but I don't know.   Maybe Mr. Hairy believes that.  I don't know that either.  But I do know the original suggestion by Mr. David Kroning II was supremely silly.

      •  Hey, if I was possibly up for a murder rap (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        NYFM

        I might break my own nose to give myself a defense, too.  

    •  And bashed himself on the back of the head. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      HairyTrueMan, trivium, Be Skeptical

      And some guys can even give themselves blow jobs.

      I can just about forgive the Brits for starting our revolutionary war and burning DC to the ground during the war of 1812 for giving us Led Zeppelin.

      by Pager on Wed Mar 28, 2012 at 10:37:13 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  There were no injuries like there was no (3+ / 0-)

    threat except from him to Trayvon.

    The radical Republican party is the party of oppression, fear, loathing and above all more money and power for the people who robbed us.

    by a2nite on Wed Mar 28, 2012 at 10:33:41 AM PDT

  •  Not that it would matter or anything. (17+ / 0-)

    If Zimm was injured it is because the 17-year old "stood his ground" when stalked.

    Happy little moron, Lucky little man.
    I wish I was a moron, MY GOD, Perhaps I am!
    —Spike Milligan

    by polecat on Wed Mar 28, 2012 at 10:37:57 AM PDT

    •  Exactly (10+ / 0-)

      You stalk a child much smaller than you, get out of your truck and scare them half to death, approach them possibly with a weapon showing, they get scared and maybe attempt to defend themselves, and you kill them.

      You get to claim self defense in this situation? Really?

      •  "Forget it, Jake, it's Florida" (1+ / 0-)

        n/t

        America, we can do better than this...

        by Randomfactor on Wed Mar 28, 2012 at 11:54:30 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Just curious (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Be Skeptical

        That's not Zimmerman's story. Zimmerman claims that he had given up the pursuit and had already turned around and was retreating from Martin, when Martin approached him to ask what was happening.

        If that's what happened, does that change your view?

        Because it seems to me that IF Zimmerman had already turned around and was walking away from Martin, there is no way Martin could have been acting in self defense.

        I understand Martin may have been pissed at that point about being followed. He may even have been frightened. But there is a big difference, legally and morally, between defending yourself and going after someone.

        I don't know if we'll ever know the truth of what transpired. Perhaps a new witness will emerge, or a more extensive forensics investigation can shed some light on what happened and where -- I don't know.

        •  Meh. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Lost and Found, DarkLadyNyara, T100R

          No, I don't think that does change my view. Fundamentally this is a situation where Zimmerman chased down an innocent person and ended up killing him. Whether they got in an altercation or not, Zimmerman was the problem at the start and at the end.

          Zimmerman should be in jail.

        •  impressive (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          polecat, DarkLadyNyara
          I understand Martin may have been pissed at that point about being followed. He may even have been frightened.
          That's very generous of you to concede that an unarmed person who was minding his own business on a public sidewalk might have had a reason to feel afraid of the large authoritarian bully who was stalking him.
        •  Except witnesses say there was a 1st gunshot (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          polecat

          and it came from a distance.

          Then, 45 seconds later, after hearing all the turmoil and cries for Help! from Trayvon, there was a second gunshot and immediate silence. Trayvon was laying face-down dead. And Zimmerman stood over his dead body and pushed into Trayvon's back to make sure he never got back up.

          It sounds like Zimmerman stalked and chased that child down and fired a shot before getting close enough to wrestle Trayvon down.

          Zimmerman wasn't about to let his prey get away. As he said on that 911 tape... "they always get away" and immediately after saying that is when he got out of his truck and started hunting that child down like an animal. Zimmerman was determined that this time... this child... would not get away.


          One may live without bread, but not without roses.
          ~Jean Richepin
          Bread & Roses

          by bronte17 on Wed Mar 28, 2012 at 12:40:47 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I hadn't heard that (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            polecat, Be Skeptical

            I thought there was only one gunshot related to this incident.

            Are you saying Zimmerman fired his gun twice?

            Also, I thought it was not yet determined who was crying for help. I saw Martin's mother on TV saying it was him, but there are apparently also witnesses saying it was Zimmerman.

            •  The witness who called 911 (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              NYFM

              and where the final last moments of Trayvon's life occurred... is the one who said there were two gunshots.

              One was at a distance and then the cries happened and then the 2nd gunshot. All within 45 seconds.

              And that witness also claims the cries were Trayvon's.

              Not Zimmerman's.


              One may live without bread, but not without roses.
              ~Jean Richepin
              Bread & Roses

              by bronte17 on Wed Mar 28, 2012 at 12:59:03 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  911 callers said there was one shot (0+ / 0-)

                In the 911 transcripts I have read, every caller either said there was just one shot or, when asked by the 911 dispatcher whether there was more than one shot (even when they initially said they heard "gunshots") stated that they just heard a single shot.  
                Where did you read about the multiple shots?

                •  It's in a FL television station's interview video (0+ / 0-)

                  A 30 minute interview with one of the witnesses.

                  Very clearly explained the two (2) gunshots that THEY heard and how the first one was from a distance and the second one was 45 seconds later.


                  One may live without bread, but not without roses.
                  ~Jean Richepin
                  Bread & Roses

                  by bronte17 on Wed Mar 28, 2012 at 06:04:31 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Two articles worth reading (0+ / 0-)

                    The 2 shot statement  is discussed, among others:

                    Orlando Sentinel, March 23, 2012: "Trayvon Martin case myths, half truths"  see at
                    articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-23/news/os-trayvon-martin-questions-20120323_1_sanford-cops-sanford-police-investigator-suspicious-death

                    Orlando Sentinel, March 27, 2012: "Trayvon rumors abound, but here are facts"
                    see at
                    articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-27/news/os-trayvon-martin-question-answer-20120327_1_medical-examiner-releases-bodies-police

                    •  So this rightwing media trumps another (0+ / 0-)

                      television station that spent an hour interviewing one witness when this murder first occurred... and you have the nerve to throw up this crap that pretends to present the "facts?"

                      That article is nothing but spin intended to protect Zimmerman, the Right to Stalk law and the failure of police to arrest a murderer because the cops decided to play judge and jury instead of letting the legal system handle it. You arrest the murderer, he has an arraignment and then he gets to walk out if and when a judge releases him on bail.

                      "And a source close to the investigation told the Orlando Sentinel just one shot was fired from Zimmerman's gun."

                      What is that "source?" That garbage news wants to refute testimony from a solid knowledgeable witness, yet it can't name names when it calls her testimony a lie?  Is this "source" the paid PR shill for Zimmerman?

                      We have another source... a witness whose home is right beside the murder scene... a witness who heard and saw the entire incident... who says there were TWO shots.


                      One may live without bread, but not without roses.
                      ~Jean Richepin
                      Bread & Roses

                      by bronte17 on Thu Mar 29, 2012 at 03:03:53 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  One Shot, Two Shots, They Said, She Said! Help!!! (0+ / 0-)

                        One witness who says there were 2 shots who didn't say that on the 911 call, while several others said they only heard one shot, as they had said on their 911 calls that evening, and Zimmerman's gun that had only one bullet missing.  But whatever, this is the kind of thing better suited for a courtroom rather than a board of closed-minded "detectives"  

                        If you would supply a link to that video I would be glad to watch it.  I couldn't find it.

                        Perhaps you are a Sarah Palin who thinks the Lame-Stream Media is merely a conspiracy to hide the truth.  That makes it so easy to pick and choose only those factoids that support your fully formed viewpoint, if you allow any new information to squeeze in at all.

                        •  Just because someone didn't spell out (0+ / 0-)

                          the number of shots on their 911 call doesn't mean they didn't hear it.  It just means they didn't go into great detail during their call for help.

                          They called 911 in order to get help for someone asking for help. They called 911 because someone had been shot in cold blood and they wanted the police there to handle it.

                          They didn't call 911 to chit chat and spend time going into great detail about everything going on. That happens later during the investigation.  They just wanted help stat. Not next week.

                          And gawd... you rightwingers are sick to muddy the waters for justice.

                          As for the video, it has been posted numerous times here. But then, you probably didn't pay attention because it interferes with your narrative.


                          One may live without bread, but not without roses.
                          ~Jean Richepin
                          Bread & Roses

                          by bronte17 on Thu Mar 29, 2012 at 07:29:01 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  The 911 operator specifically asked (0+ / 0-)

                            Was is one shot, or more than one?  Each said it was one shot.  Maybe you think that is chit chat--I think they were doing their job.  They called police because they heard someone crying out and a gun go off.  I didn't see on the transcript where someone said they called "because someone had been shot in cold blood."  

                            Here are all of the 911 calls. Excerpted are the portions that provide info on how many shots there were.  Note that not one person said there were multiple shots.
                            Neighbor #1, male - I just heard a shot right behind my house.
                            911- You just heard one shot go off?
                            Neighbor:  It was either that or a rock at the window, I don’t know, the guy’s yelling “help” and I’m not going outside.

                            Neighbor #2 Female Caller
                            911 dispatcher: You just heard gunshots?
                            Neighbor: Yes.
                            911 dispatcher: How many?
                            Neighbor: Just one

                            Neighbor #3, female
                            Neighbor: there’s someone screaming outside.
                            911 dispatcher:  Is it where you’re at?
                            Neighbor:  Yes, I heard a gunshot – hurry up.
                            911 dispatcher: OK. Do you see anything? I don’t need you to go outside but do you see anything? Do you hear squealing of tires, anything?
                            Neighbor: I just heard screaming and gun shots.
                            911 dispatcher: OK. We have an officer there. Did you hear anymore gunshots?
                            Neighbor: No, I don’t hear any more.
                            911 dispatcher: So it’s one gunshot you heard?
                            Neighbor:  Yes.

                            Neighbor #4, female
                            Neighbor: someone’s yelling two doors down from me, screaming, hollering ‘help, help, help.’  I thought I heard like a gunshot inside.
                            911 dispatcher: OK, how many shots did you hear?
                            Neighbor:  One.

                            Neighbor #5, female
                            Neighbor:  I think someone’s been shot.
                            911 dispatcher: Why do you think someone’s been shot?
                            Neighbor: they’re out in the backyard and a gun just went off and they said call 911.

                            Neighbor #6, female
                            Neighbor: I heard someone screaming “help” and I don’t know, I heard like a bang.
                            Someone is yelling and screaming “help” and I heard a pop noise

                            Neighbor #7, female
                            Neighbor: My brother said someone got shot behind our house.
                            911 dispatcher: OK. Did you hear the shot?
                            Neighbor:  I heard something then my brother ran in the house
                            Brother: I saw a man laying on the ground and he was held down screaming and I was gonna go over there and try to help him but my dog ran off the leash so I went and got my dog and then I heard a loud sound and then the screaming stopped.
                            911 dispatcher: OK, then did you see the person get shot?
                            Brother: No.
                            911 dispatcher:  OK. Do you know the person who was shot or did you see the person who had the gun?
                            Brother:  No, I just heard a loud gunshot sound and then the screaming stopped.

                            Transcript can be found on www.examiner.com/unsolved-cases-in-national/neighbor-s-911-calls-before-during-shooting-death-of-trayvon-martin-transcribed#ixzz1qX2KLwK1

                            It's too bad you don't bother to provide me any info on the interview you heard.  
                            It's also too bad that a desire for accurate facts can bizarrely be interpreted as a sick wish to "muddy the waters for justice."
                            As to the "rightwinger" slur:  HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa

                          •  Your own pasted comments say "gunshotS" (0+ / 0-)

                            So blow it out your ear.

                            Trying to justify the murder of an innocent child.

                            Won't do you any good. It will come out... if the crooks of FL will let what is left of any evidence be presented.


                            One may live without bread, but not without roses.
                            ~Jean Richepin
                            Bread & Roses

                            by bronte17 on Thu Mar 29, 2012 at 01:41:50 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I am starting to think (0+ / 0-)

                            you are a Rightwing plant to make the Left look like fools.

                            Have someone blow in one of your ears, and feel the stale breeze waft out the other

                          •  You're not from around these parts (0+ / 0-)

                            are ya'?

                            Just dropping by to stir up trouble and cast aspersions upon an innocent child who was murdered.


                            One may live without bread, but not without roses.
                            ~Jean Richepin
                            Bread & Roses

                            by bronte17 on Thu Mar 29, 2012 at 02:33:13 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Sounds like you're profiling, (0+ / 0-)

                            a common strategy for the intellectually lazy to cope with a complex world.  Or are you the self-appointed Daily Kos Neighborhood Watch?  Isn't the Right always looking for a few more Dittoheads?  After all, it's really not what you think that defines the Right, it's how you think (or don't).  The culture of unquestioning monolithic groupthink suits you.

                            I would defy you to cite a single instance where I have "cast aspersions upon an innocent child," but you probably don't really know what that means beyond the mere cliche', so don't bother... I'm done with you.

            •  the "witnesses" who thought the whining sounded (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              bronte17

              like Zimmerman was one Joe Oliver--grifter and publicity hound--who has appointed himself "friend" of Zimmerman--and determined this from listening to the tape.  

              A much better source than Martin's mother, who couldn't possibly have recognized the voice of her son of 17 years.

              What a farce this whole thing is.  I ask again:  WHERE IS ZIMMERMAN?

              If the plutocrats begin the program, we will end it. -- Eugene Debs.

              by livjack on Wed Mar 28, 2012 at 02:06:43 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  "Stand your ground laws" (5+ / 0-)

      were only enacted to "protect" white people.  I'm sure if Zimmerman and Martin were in reverse positions, the boy wouldn't have walked 10 feet from the scene of crime without getting handcuffs slapped on him.

      Shirley Chisholm was right. Our Republic is in deep trouble.

      by Big River Bandido on Wed Mar 28, 2012 at 11:00:08 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  And the thing is when you have a broken nose... (9+ / 0-)

    it is painful, you don't wait 24 hrs to get medical attention.  And what did the paramedics say?  Again, Zimmerman is said to have gone to the hospital the next day.  This is about concocting a story because your holes are so big, everyone can see through it!!

    •  a broken nose can be dangerous. (6+ / 0-)

      bone fragments can work their way into your brain pan.

      so i don't get it: head injuries and no fear of concussion.  a broken nose and where are the x-rays?

      Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounding yourself with a-holes - William Gibson.

      by doesnotworkorplaywellwithothers on Wed Mar 28, 2012 at 10:58:24 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  There was also a claim (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DarkLadyNyara

      That Trayvon had slammed Z's head into the sidewalk repeatedly.
      Once, is almost certainly a concussion. Twice or more, definite concussion, moving into skull fracture. It's crazy to think that Zimmerman could have sustained those injuries and just gone to his primary in the morning. He'd have been in an ER.
      Zimmerman's story stinks to high heaven.

      "Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain." - Napoleon Bonaparte (attributed)

      by Jaxpagan on Wed Mar 28, 2012 at 01:28:18 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Pictures aren't enough. (9+ / 0-)

    If there wasn't a police report that night before he left the scene of the crime... all injuries after the fact would be extremely suspect.

    Even a hospital record from the day after would be suspect without a police report.

    There would be zero verification that the injuries were not self inflicted, or even caused with with the help of a "friend"

    Furthermore. Dating the photos would be difficult to verify without a credible witness... i.e. an officer of the law.

    "Converts are the worst bigots." -- Max Headroom

    by jethrock on Wed Mar 28, 2012 at 10:38:44 AM PDT

  •  Considering the lead detective wanted to (13+ / 0-)

    press charges I'm guessing he had no defensive injuries or injuries so minimal that they could not have been inflicted by anyone other than himself.  After watching O'Donnell and his panel demolish oliver my doubts that this is anything other than a cold blooded murder are quickly diminishing.

  •  I been a bouncer (13+ / 0-)

    in my past life ( my early 20s I did it for fun, like conflict)was in hundreds of real fights.

    Let me say, if you are 250lbs, a 6' 3'' 140 lb kid is a stick figure. He is of no threat at all unless he has a weapon, and sorry skittles and ice tea are not a weapon.

    Zimmerman was never in any real danger, it is absolute complete bullshit.

    Bad is never good until worse happens

    by dark daze on Wed Mar 28, 2012 at 10:42:09 AM PDT

  •  Didn't they wait like three weeks before even (6+ / 0-)

    claiming Zimmerman sustained any injuries?

    Does anyone know when exactly that claim was first made?

    "Converts are the worst bigots." -- Max Headroom

    by jethrock on Wed Mar 28, 2012 at 10:45:58 AM PDT

  •  IMO that blows self defense claim (10+ / 0-)

    If you want to argue self defense, wouldn't anyone with half a brain want their injuries documented? Yet he refused to go to the hospital where he'd get medical documentation and possibly photos. Did anyone even test the (alleged) blood on his face to see whose it was?

  •  It's disgusting Hannity's making him a Hero (nt) (5+ / 0-)
  •  They don't exist (5+ / 0-)

    Because if they did, they would have played that trump card already. Instead, they have fake friend Joe Oliver and fake lawyer Craig Somer running around pretending to help George Zimmerman.

    Seriously, Mike asks a perfectly reasonable question. Actual photographs and actual medical records of actual injuries would probably not only change public opinion in this case, but also probably ensure that Zimmerman avoids being charged in the first place.

    Since the lead investigator wanted to charge Zimmerman, probable cause already exists. The local state's attorney declined to press charges on the grounds he might not get a conviction. So the reality is that the entire case and the maelstrom surrounding this are captive to a prosecutor's vanity in having a good conviction record rather than actually try a case simply because it is the right thing to do regardless of whether or not they earn a conviction.

  •  Talk is cheap I guess. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Lost and Found, kyril

    You make a good point. No evidence has been offered of any injuries, other than the words of friends and others with possibly compromised relationships.

    H'mm. I'm not terribly into this, anymore.

    by Knarfc on Wed Mar 28, 2012 at 11:26:45 AM PDT

    •  You mean, the police at the scene? (0+ / 0-)

      His injuries are documented in the officer accounts and the police report.  They also would have been witnessed by everyone who processed him.

      •  Would have evidence? (0+ / 0-)
        They also would have been witnessed by everyone who processed him.
        What kind of evidence is "it would have been witnesssed, because of a story someone told". You are confusing rumor, hearsay, and imagination with "evidence".

        H'mm. I'm not terribly into this, anymore.

        by Knarfc on Wed Mar 28, 2012 at 04:05:58 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Zimmerman's injury claims make no sense (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kyril, bronte17

    but I'm sure some of his defenders will be here any minute with their unsourced "facts" and their sanctimonious lectures about a "rush to judgment" by the left.

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