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Originally posted to Shawn on Fri Apr 06, 2012 at 12:16 PM PDT.

Also republished by ClassWarfare Newsletter: WallStreet VS Working Class Global Occupy movement.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Time to out those kockroaches nt (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    phonegery

    I love me peektures and that is that! Cheerleaders till 2016

    by matrix on Fri Apr 06, 2012 at 12:40:03 PM PDT

  •  Guns + Corporate Cash: a deadly combo (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    vjcalaska, Shawn Russell, jan4insight

    Too many guns means too many poeple getting shot.  Whether we are talking about Sanford Fl., or Oakland Ca., the result is the same: guns mean death.

    The gun industry peddle death for profit.  More gun sales means greater profits for the gun companies and more death for American citizens.

    The gun industry takes those profits to buy the law-makers and the laws most favorable to the gun industry regardless of who gets hurt.  No one denies that the gun industry has brought about a liberalization of gun control laws and de-criminalization of using guns to cause death and mayhem.

    The lethal products made by the gun industry and the large profits made are a deadly combo for America: deadly for our citizens and deadly for our democratic system of government.

    Every gun purchased contributes to the detriment of American society.

    "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

    by Hugh Jim Bissell on Fri Apr 06, 2012 at 12:53:15 PM PDT

    •  One question: Would you want to see every firearm (5+ / 0-)

      regardless of type completely outlawed?

      β€œThe object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” β€” Marcus Aurelius

      by LamontCranston on Fri Apr 06, 2012 at 05:35:09 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Doesn't Cali have really strict firearm laws? (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      rockhound, gerrilea, Robobagpiper, ER Doc

      I'm not saying that firearm manufacturers don't influence the law, but hell, look at their profits versus the banks, Wall Street, etc. It's a drop in the bucket...

      No one denies that the gun industry has brought about a liberalization of gun control laws and de-criminalization of using guns to cause death and mayhem.
      Great phrasing. </sarcasm> Let's bring some accuracy to it though.

      It wasn't just the firearm industry that brought about a liberalization of gun control laws. It was a whole bunch of pro-2A people on both sides of the fence.

      Decriminalization of using guns for self defense, not death and mayhem. You use a firearm to STOP a lethal threat. You don't get a hunting pass on your fellow humans.

      You're a big one for facts according to a couple of your most recent diaries. Where are your numbers on the profits from the firearm industry buying politicians?

      And how do you rationalize my .22 being purchased contributing to the detriment of American society?

      Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

      by KVoimakas on Fri Apr 06, 2012 at 06:51:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  asdf (6+ / 0-)
        You don't get a hunting pass on your fellow humans.
        You know that. I know that. We know that. But somebody's gotta tell the right wing nutjobs...

        liberal hunting licence

        Remember folks, if only the far right owns and know how to use guns, then they are the only people who own and can use guns.

        Think on that while considering these alarming words from one of those far right-wing nutjobs:

        "I must confess, when I see anyone with an Obama 2012 bumper sticker, I recognize them as a threat to the gene pool." - Republican Congressman Allen West (FL-22) Rawstory Source

        by JayFromPA on Fri Apr 06, 2012 at 07:49:17 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Take a look at the reality (0+ / 0-)

        Yes, Wall St. and the banking industry make greater profits than the gun industry.  That does not negate the fact that the gun industry uses their profits to buy the law-makers and law they want.

        The gun industry and the NRA (one of MANY lobbying organization for the gun industry) work to change the laws.  The fact that the NRA and other lobbying groups solict funds from the gun-buying public does not negate the fact that these organizations are working on behalf of the gun industry.

        While the law says decriminalization of gun use is for self defense, George Zimmerman never got the memo.  The fact is that GZ was able to shot dead an unarmed kid who was not a danger to GZ (until perhaps GZ started harassing the kid) and walk away without so much as a summons.

        A .22 can still kill a person.  And the money you spent on buying that gun and the ammo to shoot it, goes directly into the bank accounts of the gun industry, who we both know are bying law-makers and the laws they want.

        "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

        by Hugh Jim Bissell on Sat Apr 07, 2012 at 09:01:32 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  And you blame the law for this when it looks (0+ / 0-)

          like GZ was being protected by local (possibly corrupt) LEOs.

          And no, that money went to the person selling their firearms because the economy still sucks and they can't make enough to pay their bills. I try very hard to not EVER buy a new firearm. Usually it's a better deal for me AND it helps out my fellow citizen instead of a corporation.

          Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

          by KVoimakas on Sat Apr 07, 2012 at 04:14:37 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Gated Communities Vigilante Authorization (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jan4insight

    The "stand your ground" law authorizes exactly the sort of thing Zimmerman did - execution of people who "don't belong" in the gated communities our overlords increasingly inhabit.  This is simply domestic terrorism enforcing separation of races and classes.  While this example is implicitly racist, we really are all Trayvon now, if for no other reason than plutocrats don't like to see people like me much more than they want to see people like Trayvon in their streets.

    •  Please tell me, using the actual text of the (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      salmo, KVoimakas

      law, how it authorizes that.

      You can't.

      Non enim propter gloriam, diuicias aut honores pugnamus set propter libertatem solummodo quam Nemo bonus nisi simul cum vita amittit. -Declaration of Arbroath

      by Robobagpiper on Sat Apr 07, 2012 at 03:11:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Really? More Proof Needed? (0+ / 0-)

        Trayvon Martin is dead, killed by a vigilante who thought that he didn't belong in the neighborhood.  Of that there is no doubt.  The treatment of the shooter can also leave no doubt about that law's practical meaning.  

        •  Considering that Zimmerman is very (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          KVoimakas

          likely to be charged with murder, if not manslaughter, in the near future, yes, more proof is needed.

          Cite the text of the law. Would you rather be informed, or having an emotional reaction?

          Non enim propter gloriam, diuicias aut honores pugnamus set propter libertatem solummodo quam Nemo bonus nisi simul cum vita amittit. -Declaration of Arbroath

          by Robobagpiper on Sat Apr 07, 2012 at 03:27:39 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  "Show me what people do, and I'll tell you what (0+ / 0-)

            they believe."    

            •  Which speaks to what a murderer believes (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              KVoimakas

              and not what the law allows.

              Why won't you look up the text of the law?

              Non enim propter gloriam, diuicias aut honores pugnamus set propter libertatem solummodo quam Nemo bonus nisi simul cum vita amittit. -Declaration of Arbroath

              by Robobagpiper on Sun Apr 08, 2012 at 02:34:51 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Which speaks to what the police and prosecutor did (0+ / 0-)

                Yes, it matters what the murderer did, and what other people like him think he can do.  But, what I am arguing we should be focusing on here is the actions of the police and prosecutor.  A textual argument might be interesting in the abstract if no one had been shot yet.  However, we have an actual killing, where the people who actually have the authority to interpret whether or not Zimmerman was allowed to "stand his ground" by shooting Trayvon Martin in that place under those circumstances have shown by their actions what they think.   Regardless of how either of us thinks the text should be interpreted, the way to deal with this is to follow the facts on the ground - which in this case is a dead young man and his murderer walking around free.

  •  "Kill at will"? (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishbone, rockhound, oldpunk, KVoimakas

    Wow, never thought I'd be calling Van Jones a liar.

    But he is. The law does not remotely permit that.

    All it actually does is remove the common law duty to retreat prior to engaging in what would be otherwise a legitimate use of force.

    Non enim propter gloriam, diuicias aut honores pugnamus set propter libertatem solummodo quam Nemo bonus nisi simul cum vita amittit. -Declaration of Arbroath

    by Robobagpiper on Fri Apr 06, 2012 at 04:05:38 PM PDT

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