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Good news, everyone. Rep. Paul Ryan's budget isn't about hating poor people; it's about his deeply held Catholic convictions:

Paul Ryan: A person’s faith is central to how they conduct themselves in public and in private. So to me, using my Catholic faith, we call it the social magisterium, which is how do you apply the doctrine of your teaching into your everyday life as a lay person?

To me, the principle of subsidiarity, which is really federalism, meaning government closest to the people governs best, having a civil society of the principal of solidarity where we, through our civic organizations, through our churches, through our charities, through all of our different groups where we interact with people as a community, that’s how we advance the common good. By not having big government crowd out civic society, but by having enough space in our communities so that we can interact with each other, and take care of people who are down and out in our communities.

Those principles are very very important, and the preferential option for the poor, which is one of the primary tenants of Catholic social teaching, means don’t keep people poor, don’t make people dependent on government so that they stay stuck at their station in life. Help people get out of poverty out onto life of independence.

If only Ryan had some specific guidance from the Catholic Church about the values the budget should reflect. Oh, what's this? Why, it's specific guidance from the Catholic Church about what values the budget should reflect:
On behalf of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, we wish to address the moral and human dimensions of the federal budget. [...] We fear the pressure to cut vital programs that protect the lives and dignity of the poor and vulnerable will increase.

As Catholic bishops, we have tried to remind Congress that these choices are economic, political, and moral. We offer the following moral criteria to guide difficult budgetary choices:

1. Every budget decision should be assessed by whether it protects or threatens human life and dignity.

2. A central moral measure of any budget proposal is how it affects “the least of these” (Matthew 25). The needs of those who are hungry and homeless, without work or in poverty should come first.

3. Government and other institutions have a shared responsibility to promote the common good of all, especially ordinary workers and families who struggle to live in dignity in difficult economic times.

And just in case that isn't clear enough for Paul Ryan:
A just framework for future budgets cannot rely on disproportionate cuts in essential services to poor persons; it requires shared sacrifice by all, including raising adequate revenues, eliminating unnecessary military and other spending, and addressing the long-term costs of health insurance and retirement programs fairly.
And just in case that still isn't clear enough for Paul Ryan:
We support proposals in the Administration’s Fiscal Year 2013 budget to strengthen programs that serve poor and vulnerable people, such as Pell Grants and improved workforce training and development. We also support proposals to restore cuts to the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, as well as efforts to make permanent recent expansions of low-income tax credits.
In other words, the Catholic bishops believe Congress has a moral obligation to protect the very programs that Paul Ryan and the Republicans want to cut.

Of course, since the Catholic Church isn't actually supposed to be writing our laws and policies because of that whole Constitution thing, there's absolutely no reason why Paul Ryan should care what the Church has to say about the budget. Or, say, women's health care. But since he's the one who claims his policies are guided by his Catholic faith, he may want to review what the Catholic leadership has to say about that.

Originally posted to Kaili Joy Gray on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 12:16 PM PDT.

Also republished by Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Meh. I'll take note when they deny (24+ / 0-)

    him communion.

    /ain't gonna happen

    "This is not class warfare. It's math." - Barack Obama 9/19/11

    by DaveV on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 12:21:27 PM PDT

    •  The Catholic Church, to its credit, is against the (15+ / 0-)

      death penalty. But can you imagine what would happen if the Church denied communion to a politician  that was in favor of the death penalty?

      •  Paul Ryan's Catholic Church (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        spacecadet1

        A celibate clergy is an especially good idea, because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism. -Carl Sagan

        by jo fish on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 03:25:20 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  The Church is against the death penalty, BUT (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Calamity Jean, immigradvocate

        Conservative Catholics have no problem whatsoever pronouncing the Church wrong about that. Conservative Catholics are some of the strongest advocates of the death penalty you'll find anywhere. If this were not so, with a majority of the Supreme Court Justices being Catholic, when Pope Benedict sent a letter asking for clemency for Troy Davis, the Catholics on the Court would have listened, but instead, they denied his petition for a stay of execution.

        Catholics like Scalia justify this apparent (to non-Catholics) contradiction by pointing out that Benedict was not speaking ex Cathedra in his request, but rather expressing his own opinion.

        A few months ago, Lisa Miller, writing for "Belief Watch" in The Washington Post addressed this issue in her column. Here's an excerpt:

        Let’s start with Scalia’s implication that the Roman Catholic Church supports the death penalty. The evidence to the contrary is overwhelming. In 2005, the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops released a statement saying that “ending the death penalty would be one important step away from a culture of death and toward building a culture of life.” In 2007, the Vatican said that capital punishment is “an affront to human dignity.” Both Pope Benedict XVI and his predecessor, John Paul II, have consistently voiced their opposition to the death penalty and praised governments and leaders who abolished it.
        [...]
        In 1995, Pope John Paul II issued an encyclical — an official document of the utmost importance — called “Evangelium Vitae,” in which he weighed in on the death penalty.

        “The nature and extent of the punishment,” he wrote, “ought not to go to the extreme of executing the offender except in cases of absolute necessity: in other words, when it would not be possible to defend society.” In today’s societies, the pope said, “such cases are very rare, if not practically non-existent.”
        [...]
        In a 2002 speech at the University of Chicago, Scalia said “Evangelium Vitae” reversed centuries of Catholic tradition by making capital punishment — his word — “wrong.”

        “I do not agree with ‘Evangelium Vitae,’ ” he said, “that the death penalty can only be imposed to protect rather than avenge, and that since it is, in most modern societies, not necessary for the former purpose, it is wrong.”

        Miller ended her column with this:
        That’s fine with me. I don’t want a justice sitting on the Supreme Court who submits blindly to religious authority or who holds his religion above the laws of the land. So keep your job, Justice Scalia. Just don’t pretend your church approves of the death penalty. Or that you aren’t like most people of faith, cherry-picking the teachings of your church that suit you best.

        Eliminate tax breaks that stimulate the offshoring of jobs.

        by RJDixon74135 on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 03:48:57 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  There are plenty of lousy Catholics who (5+ / 0-)

      go to church.  The whole idea is that they can become better.  I think Paul Ryan has some work to do.

      An illusion can never be destroyed directly... SK.

      by Thomas Twinnings on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:20:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I'm sure President Santorum will take this up with (9+ / 0-)

    him for his first budget proposal.

    What? You say Santorum has dropped out of the race? Well, fine. When he's Secretary of Religious Affairs in the Romney cabinet then.

    "What profit a man, if he gain the world, but has to pay taxes on it?" Paul 8:36

    From the Gospel of St. Ron Paul in the Teachings and Misunderstandings of the Words of Adam Smith

    by ontheleftcoast on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 12:22:49 PM PDT

  •  Republican Jesus a very different fellow (28+ / 0-)

    If the Church took care of the poor, the government would not have to do so.

    We proved in 1929 that the Church was not up to the task. The rich don't give sacrificially like they did in the first century, when they would sell their land and give the proceeds to the church.

    In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra En théorie, il n'y a aucune différence entre théorie et pratique, mais en pratique, il y a toujours une différence. - Yogi Berra

    by blue aardvark on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 12:27:13 PM PDT

    •  We Proved From AD 300 to 1933, and From 1980 (14+ / 0-)

      onward. And we gave private philanthropy the entire history of civilization.

      Both were always a massive bust compared to 20th century developed world liberalism.

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 12:37:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Ryan should be extremely worried about his rich (4+ / 0-)

      friends' eternal souls.

      “I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” Matthew 19:23-24

    •  Ayn Rand Jesus is REALLY different. (7+ / 0-)

      Rand explicitly repudiates Christian morality and Christianity per se, and she was really not into authoritarian organizations like the Catholic Church. So it's hard to see how Ryan can consider himself to be both a Catholic and a Randian.

      The right has long since abandoned any sense of intellectual integrity or rigor. Apparently ideas for them are like objects and their minds are like shelves. The shelves don't care what you place on them.

      "It's called the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it." George Carlin

      by psnyder on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:29:39 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The Shoos Of A Fisherman (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Calamity Jean

      I Got Mine. Go Screw Yourself! - Pope Pompous XXIII

      Mitt Romney's Like A Box Of Chocolates. You Never Know What You're Gonna Get!

      by kitebro on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 02:15:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  This would be the original (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Calamity Jean, blue aardvark

      communism.  Yes, they gave up everything and shared it all among them.  You won't get very many Christians to admit to that today, though.  

      I remember (way back when) when the nuns told us that they were "communist."  We were properly horrified until it was explained.  Small "c" communist means sharing things in common, and religious communities are a good example of that.  How many current Christians would adopt such a lifestyle?  Not many, you say?  Well, there you go.  They don't want that old time religion any more than they want the original Constitution.  They want to cherry-pick it all like they do the Bible.  

      Paul Ryan (and many others) is a disgrace to his faith - and, truth be told, to our species.  We are not solitary animals.  We really do need each other.  Grrr....  Now I'm mad, as well as ashamed.  I don't know of a single person in my Catholic parish who is anything like him.  There is no one there who wouldn't  give the literal shirt off his/her back for someone who really needs it.  Now I'm just ranting...

      -7.62, -7.28 "Hold fast to dreams, for if dreams die, life is a broken winged bird that cannot fly." -Langston Hughes

      by luckylizard on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 04:02:08 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  But Republicans know that the Pope and (18+ / 0-)

    his supporting cast really only care about abortion, birth control, and gays.  You know, the things Jesus spent His ministry talking about.  Or not.

    “when Democrats don’t vote, Democrats don’t win.” Alan Grayson

    by ahumbleopinion on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 12:27:41 PM PDT

  •  Even if that wasn't in direct contradiction (8+ / 0-)

    to the Church's teaching on Social Justice in re:  the poor:

    Preferential Option for the poor and vulnerable

    Jesus taught that on the Day of Judgement God will ask what each of us did to help the poor and needy: "Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me."[3] This is reflected in the Church's canon law, which states, "The Christian faithful are also obliged to promote social justice and, mindful of the precept of the Lord, to assist the poor from their own resources."[39]
    Through our words, prayers and deeds we must show solidarity with, and compassion for, the poor. When instituting public policy we must always keep the "preferential option for the poor" at the forefront of our minds. The moral test of any society is "how it treats its most vulnerable members. The poor have the most urgent moral claim on the conscience of the nation. We are called to look at public policy decisions in terms of how they affect the poor."[40]

    then Ryan is applying a religious litmus test to policy making by making law based on his interpretation of his faith.

    We view "The Handmaid's Tale" as cautionary. The GOP views it as an instruction book.

    by Vita Brevis on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 12:35:31 PM PDT

    •  Yeah funny isn't it? (5+ / 0-)

      I don't see anything in those teachings about not making people dependent on government.
      This guy is a sociopath. I know there must have been a million dog-whistles in his original speech at the top, but I'm not fluent in that type of word salad.
      The gall of him using his "faith" as an excuse/explanation to cut programs for the poor, women, children, the elderly.
      He cleverly (or not) tries to infer that he is looking out for their best interests, you know - we just need to give them their dignity and the opportunity to pull themselves up, not just sit on the couch and be dependent on the nanny state, while giving yet AGAIN more tax cuts to the wealthy and corporations is just beyond the pale. Yeah - those lazy-ass old folks in their 80s and 90s should be over at the Wal Mart, working as greeters.
      I despise this guy with my very being. Is he vulnerable at his next election, at ALL?

      America is a COUNTRY, not a CORPORATION. She doesn't need a CEO. Vote Obama.

      by manneckdesign on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:20:11 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  For crying out loud (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RJDixon74135

    why should anyone on this site give a flying fuck what the Catholic Bishops say?

    Their entire organization has been so discredited by the tens of thousands of abused children that I totally cringe when they're held up as a paragon of morality in any sense at all.

    Why do we do that at this site?  Really~!!

    •  the issue is not about what the Bishops say (11+ / 0-)

      the issue is yet another instance of Republicon hypocrisy--Ryan claims his faith is an excuse for his budget, thinking that we don't know any better.

      "Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D."
      Real journalists know that lies do not bring "balance" to truth! (h/t elwior)

      by TrueBlueMajority on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:08:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  As a Catholic, I care what the Catholic Bishops (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Amber6541, exterris

      say, and I agree with most of it.

      An illusion can never be destroyed directly... SK.

      by Thomas Twinnings on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:24:37 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Did you actually read the article? (5+ / 0-)

      This is about Ryan saying he is acting in accordance with the teachings of the church, when he is not. It's about Ryan's hypocrisy, not the manifold failings of the Catholic Bishops of the USA.

      In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra En théorie, il n'y a aucune différence entre théorie et pratique, mais en pratique, il y a toujours une différence. - Yogi Berra

      by blue aardvark on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:52:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Really, what are the teachings of The Church? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        GreenMother

        that it is fine to abuse hundreds of thousands of children?

        For the life of me, I don't get how this shit can be so vociferously promoted/excused on a "progressive" website . .. .

        . .. . which gives me even greater appreciation for Sinead O'Connors' SNL courage dissing of the pope 25 or so years ago.    

        Really, hundreds of thousands of kids have had their lives destroyed, and it's OK as long as a political point can be made???

        WTF is up with that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        •  The teachings of the Church (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          suzq, exterris, Calamity Jean

          are not the same as the teachings of the Roman Catholic hierarchy (unless you're a super-hard-core Catholic).

          Furthermore, it seems pretty clear that in the abuse cases the Church acted against its own teachings in favor of its own hierarchy - confusing the priesthood for the Church and protecting the wrong one.

          Again, though, if Paul Ryan said he was writing laws based on the teachings of Ayn Rand, it would be worthwhile to point out contradictions, even if Ayn Rand is as cynical and soulless a creature as one could possibly imagine.

          In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra En théorie, il n'y a aucune différence entre théorie et pratique, mais en pratique, il y a toujours une différence. - Yogi Berra

          by blue aardvark on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 02:12:15 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  OK, I give up (0+ / 0-)

            I'm clearly no match for two millenia of Obfuscation

            •  You're no match (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              exterris

              for the idea that a religion which claims all human beings are imperfect is run by obviously imperfect people.

              It's sort of a "Duh" moment.

              In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra En théorie, il n'y a aucune différence entre théorie et pratique, mais en pratique, il y a toujours une différence. - Yogi Berra

              by blue aardvark on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 02:18:45 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Why do you condone the abuse of (0+ / 0-)

                hundreds of thousands of children?

                By blindly supporting the Catholic Church, there is no other way to spin this.

                •  Oh drop dead (0+ / 0-)

                  I'm not Catholic and don't support them at all.

                  In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra En théorie, il n'y a aucune différence entre théorie et pratique, mais en pratique, il y a toujours une différence. - Yogi Berra

                  by blue aardvark on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 05:53:48 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  OK then, I apologize (0+ / 0-)

                    It just seemed to me that you were acting as an apologist for the Catholic Church - which is one of the most powerful organizations on this Planet and greatly abuses that power.

                    But if you weren't doing that, my bad, I have no idea what the point of your posts were in that case.

                    In the "bigger picture" if is just profoundly depressing that this site (or at least frontpagers hereat) has taken to discrediting republicans by appealling to total scumwads like Ronald Reagan and the Catholic Church.  

                    Really, can't they be totally dissed on their own merits????  

                    •  That people who are wrong about some things (0+ / 0-)

                      can be right about other things.

                      That is, there may very well be things of value in the Catholic teachings regarding social justice.

                      And so when Paul Ryan says he is motivated by his Catholic faith in his treatment of the poor - and the Catholic teachings resonate with a left wing agenda, not Paul Ryan's cruelty - then it is worth our time to point that out.

                      In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra En théorie, il n'y a aucune différence entre théorie et pratique, mais en pratique, il y a toujours une différence. - Yogi Berra

                      by blue aardvark on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 08:08:07 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

            •  Congitive dissonance... (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              exterris, JosephK74, Calamity Jean

              You're letting the actions of the church get in the way of the teachings of the church.

              Don't do that!

              The US Conference of Bishops very clearly puts emphasis on social programs that favor the poor and disadvantaged.  They know that without them, their guidance on abortion, family and life choices would impossible.  You can't have one without the other.  You can't pick and choose.  

              Now. we're not asking you to agree with their worldview.  (Lord knows, I sure don't...) We're just informing you that their world view is more comprehensive than "don't have abortions or use birth control."  It also includes "feed the hungry, spend money on education, not war, and treat workers with dignity" among other things.

              Ryan is picking and choosing from the menu.  

              To me, the greater sin is that the bishops place more emphasis on birth control than they do on any of the other tenets they espouse.  Since they do that, I can see your point that we should not be surprised that Rep. Ryan does the same.

        •  If you are so pure or offended that you won't (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Calamity Jean

          use those assholes' OWN statements against BOTH organizations effectively, then your lens on life is a tad myopic.
          Ryan has offered Progressives a wide-open "Gimme!" to whack him hard with the statements of a group with whom HE identifies.
          Don't cut off your nose to spite your face - here's a 24 karat whammy to clobber the bastard and expose the despicable hypocrisy behind his legislation using HIS OWN Supporters!!!!

          Of course it hurts! You're being screwed by an Elephant!

          by CAPitBull on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 03:15:23 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  No, those aren't the teachings of the Church. (0+ / 0-)
    •  The president cares. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      exterris

      So we should probably pay attention to.

    •  In the past, Catholic people have comprised (0+ / 0-)

      a large voting block. Although I'm not religious at all, I still find it politically significant to try to understand the dyamics particularly because we now have such a large number of Catholic people in positions of power in our government. The Supreme Court is a good example.

      However, there is currently a rift between liberal and conservative Catholics the size of the Pacific Ocean. It pretty much mirrors the same rift in American society overall. The Pope and those who surround him in Rome tend to be more liberal, but American bishops tend to be more conservative.

      Eliminate tax breaks that stimulate the offshoring of jobs.

      by RJDixon74135 on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 04:44:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  since when do the bishops care about the poor? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TrueBlueMajority, RichM, Roadbed Guy

    Catholic teaching - as if the institution of the Church really did have a mind and voice of its own - must not be confused with the actual statements and actions of Catholic hierarchs.  "By their fruits ye shall know them"  As far as I'm concerned, the Catholic bishops agree with Ryan 100% or just plain don't care: i.e. so long as we have their souls, dying in the gutter will just get them to heaven faster.

    Never attribute to stupidity what can be adequately explained by malice; stupid people couldn't hurt us so effectively.

    by Visceral on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 12:46:07 PM PDT

  •  Can we name just one GOP pol. denied communion? (17+ / 0-)

    You know for violating church teaching on capital punishment, just war, and on the poor and poverty. Seriously, they will deny Democrats just for being anti-homophobes or being pro choice, but there's more to Catholic teaching than about homosexuality and abortion.

  •  If so, WTF ARE YOU IN THE FEDERAL GOVT? (14+ / 0-)

    If that's really what you believe, how come you're not working for the CYO or Catholic Charities? You seem to be doing the exact opposite of what you say you believe in as a social creed.

    Sinner.

    Some people are intolerant, and I CAN'T STAND people like that. -- Tom Lehrer

    by TheCrank on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:03:13 PM PDT

    •  He's doing God's work (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lcbo, exterris

      by ensuring that the Federal Government doesn't help anyone so they are forced into the loving arms of their local priest.

      In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice, there always is a difference. - Yogi Berra En théorie, il n'y a aucune différence entre théorie et pratique, mais en pratique, il y a toujours une différence. - Yogi Berra

      by blue aardvark on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:54:46 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The thing that kills me is that (6+ / 0-)

    protestant evangelicals look down their noses routinely at Catholics in the Bible Belt areas during social situations...but I guess all that's out the window when there's a black man in the white house.

    Today, strive to be the person you want to be.

    by GoGoGoEverton on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:03:58 PM PDT

    •  Well you know--they have to pick what they regard (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Calamity Jean

      as the lesser of 2 evils.

      But yep, Protestants--esp Baptists and Pentacostals do look down on Catholics, and few really consider them genuine Christians.

      The usual thing that is whispered and in print, is that the Catholic Church is really the surviving core of the Cult of Inanna [or Isis] which in their minds explains the emphasis on the Virgin Mary as a cult-figure. Basically the word is that Catholics are [allegedly] really Pagans.

      But they put that aside to join forces against Women's Rights some 20 years ago.

      When Obama made it into office, that pretty much consolidated the partnership.

      Though once all the evil people have been ethnically cleansed from the earth to prepare for the second coming, one kind of wonders which side will win the end times,celebrity death match.

  •  what a crock. Meta Jesus is weeping (0+ / 0-)

    "Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D."
    Real journalists know that lies do not bring "balance" to truth! (h/t elwior)

    by TrueBlueMajority on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:05:39 PM PDT

  •  Clearly, denying birth control... (5+ / 0-)

    is a higher priority for the bishops than helping the poor, that's why they are in bed with the GOP.

    The only positive about it that they the engine that's driving the GOP and their war on women off a cliff.

  •  John F. Kennedy is spinning in his grave with that (2+ / 0-)

    remark by Ryan.

  •  So where are the screaming Catholic priests and (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SammyJames, TDDVandy, ma2004, JosephK74

    laymen we usually see on the teevee whenever they happen to agree with the Republican party on policy?  Come on guys, get out there and yell for the poor!  It's what Jesus would want you to do.

    Got Social Security? Thank a Democrat!

    by Fury on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:07:09 PM PDT

  •  So what Ryan is saying is you have to create poor (6+ / 0-)

    people in order to be able to save them, is that it?

    Rhetorical note: when someone says "very, very" the two cancel each other out and the real meaning is the exact opposite.  Ryan has no principles other than serving his corporate overlords.

  •  So Paul should just join the (4+ / 0-)

    Sacred Heart of the Bleeding Rick Warren Church located somewhere in Lake Forest, California...you know, the Purpose Driven Assholes looking for the peeps with Far Away Eyes.

  •  It takes a lot of courage to hide behind... (6+ / 0-)

    Your faith and use it as an excuse for your actions.  Good job Congressman Ryan.  I know rMoney is watching closely while he vets his VP choices.

    The most dangerous... programs, from a movement conservative's point of view, are the ones that work the best and thereby legitimize the welfare state. Krugman

    by BasharH on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:09:41 PM PDT

  •  I don't know any Catholic tenants. (4+ / 0-)

    I know of a few tenets though.

    •  Oh, come ON people!!! (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      createpeace, GreenMother

      Don't you see what a fucking IDIOT Ryan is?! He is of the same breed of fucking morons who say dumbass things like "Nukular" instead of "Nuclear." He clearly wrote "Tenant," which is perhaps his way of digging at Democrats.

      The last time that I checked, there are very few wealthy people who you can honestly say are "tenants." In fact, they typically HAVE tenants.

      Tenets, on the other hand, is something that they clearly lack. Along with moral compasses, ethical guidelines, et cetera.

  •  I was raised as a Methodist, and I spent a lot (11+ / 0-)

    of time in Sunday School as a kid. I even won a radio Bible quiz when I was in junior high. IIRC, Jesus spent a lot of time feeding the poor and healing the sick. I never heard him say a word about dependency. Of course, Jesus did not have much to say about abortion and same-sex marriage either. He did, however, throw the money changers out of the temple.

  •  People can care what any church says about a (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    eXtina, TDDVandy, Thomas Twinnings

    political issue; it's part of the mix in the marketplace of ideas.  Some folks oppose the Ryan budget because of the teachings of the Catholic Church and some oppose abortion or even birth control because of those same teachings.  

    If those who oppose abortion can pass a constiutional amendment, then our system allows them to do so.  If they can convince the people that others should adopt a certain Catholic teaching, then they have that right.  I, of course, can oppose them.    

    So I think your point here is a bit off:

    Of course, since the Catholic Church isn't actually supposed to be writing our laws and policies because of that whole Constitution thing
    The Constituition forbids an established church and I fully beleive in a spearation fo Church and state, but nothing in that precludes any church from telling the followers to believe something and nothing forbids their followers from agitating for change in conformance with those beliefs.   For example, the ELCA (Lutheran) marries GLBTERs.  Those Lutherans may adgitate for laws that legitimate their church marriages of GLBTErs.  That's not "writing the laws," because the people mediate.   Southern Baptists or Catholics may differ with the ELCA on this issue.  

    I agree overall with your post (Ryan is not consistent), but there are many Catholics or followers of other religions who also are not consistent.

    I'm not Catholic, so I don't have to deal with picking and choosing, or not.  :-)

    I'm from the Elizabeth Warren and Darcy Burner Wing of the Democratic Party!

    by TomP on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:11:57 PM PDT

    •  We're not mincing words here. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      WheninRome

      Ryan is an asshole. He shouldn't be in government.

      And neither should religion.

      END OF STORY.

      •  Really! People can vote for whatever (0+ / 0-)

        reason they want.  I woudl not seek to preclude atheistic beleifs or religious beliefs from unfluencing votes.  So by saying "religion should not be in government," I have no idea what you are saying.  If you think you can force voters not to have religious beliefs influence them, fat chance.

        I'm from the Elizabeth Warren and Darcy Burner Wing of the Democratic Party!

        by TomP on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 02:27:55 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I generally agree with your point- but (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      WheninRome, TomP

      (there's always a but, isn't there?)

      If religious people use their erligious views to try to convinve others in the marketplace of ideas- that's ok.  But- when my tax dollars are used by a church to further its religious agenda, I would like to draw the line.

      Giving religious organizations tax- free status means that I pay for their organizations, rather than those who believe in their dogma paying .  this is actually just the opposite of separation of churches and state.

      I (and anyone not religious) have to be taxed more, to pay for the roads, police, army, fire service, county and city government, street lights and so on so that the members of the church can have those services for free. Further, no tax paying business can be in the space occupied by the church, and even the donations made by church members are paid for  by me, since I have to pay more taxes to make up for the tax deductions they receive.

      The religious never acknowledge that their  institutions are subsidized by the rest of us.

      The religious institutions scream if "their money" is used to provide medical care that they believe should be prohibited- but are quiter happy for "my money" to be used to further their agenda.

      Generally, I don't complain about this- but when those same churches enter into the public arena and directly (as opposed to indirectly) try to influence laws and government, then I cry foul.

      As my father used to say,"We have the best government money can buy."

      by BPARTR on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:35:07 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  They are subsidized, I agree. (0+ / 0-)

        Yes, I totally disagree with the churches on many issues, and disagree with the Catholic church's attempt to immunize universities and hospitals from the law.  

        I'm from the Elizabeth Warren and Darcy Burner Wing of the Democratic Party!

        by TomP on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 02:29:28 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I would agree with you ... (0+ / 0-)

      if this were an isolated incident. Except we know that it isn't, and (in my view) the bishops have gone far beyond lobbying generally for their beliefs and are now very specific about what they think our laws and policies should be—to the point that they're suing, or threatening to sue, over such policies. That's much more than "Gee, we hope you guys think of the poor."

      True, of course, that most religious people pick and choose what to follow, so Ryan isn't unique in his inconsistency. But, given that we just had a big ol' national conversation about how our laws and policies should not violate what the bishops consider moral—and the Republicans were basing their bills on those edicts—I think in this case, it's rather exceptional that the bishops have been very specific about what they think the budget should and shouldn't do and Ryan, boasting of how his Catholicism guides his policymaking, is directly violating those very specific edicts from the bishops.

      You know how I feel, of course. I don't give a rat's ass what the bishops think about anything. Ever. But for those who do, it's kinda hard to ignore how they're ignoring what the bishops think about the budget.

  •  The Gospel according to Paul --- Ryan (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    eXtina, SammyJames

    And, the Poor you are to going have with you always, so the GOP will help to give you more and more so that you can feel more righteous in your own eyes!

    Impeach Grover Norquist! Defeat a Republican!

    by NM Ray on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:12:08 PM PDT

  •  Ayn Rand is Ryan's patron saint. (5+ / 0-)

    It's kind of funny that these GOPers who claim to have deep religious values are all followers of someone who ridiculed Christianity.

    •  Yes -- Ayn Rand hated religion. (3+ / 0-)

      And she must be spinning in her grave knowing how her name gets constantly thrown around by right-wing Christian zealots. They clearly have no idea what they are saying.

      I disagree with most of what Ayn Rand said too -- but at least she was consistent -- consistently wrong about almost everything, but at least she had the balls to say that she honestly hated self-proclaimed righteous assholes. (Of course, she also was kind of a self-proclaimed righteous asshole...)

      Oh, forget it.

  •  I'm Catholic, too! (12+ / 0-)

    Ok, a lapsed Catholic, but Catholic none the less.  I went to Catholic school for 12 years where for the first eight years, my first class was church.  So, 8 years times 6 days a week (can't forget Sundays!)  equals 2496 times that I went to mass up to eighth grade.  

    Funny, but I didn't learn ANYTHING like "the principle of subsidiarity, which is really federalism, meaning government closest to the people governs best...".  I am really curious what Catholic Church he went to??

    •  He went to the same Catholic school that Romney -- (0+ / 0-)

      -- uh --

      right.

    •  If you think about it, what Ryan says makes sense (0+ / 0-)

      that is why there is a pope in every congregation setting rules that best meets the needs of their constituents.  Wait, there isn't?

    •  I wasn't quite as overexposed to the Church as (3+ / 0-)

      you were but I was thinking exactly the same thing as you.  I went to Catholic school in Grade 7 and got a perfect mark on a catechism exam (ha ha!) and don't remember hearing anything as insane as what Ryan was babbling about.  

      We must, indeed, all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately. B. Franklin

      by Observerinvancouver on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:30:18 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Me too and thanks for doing (0+ / 0-)

      that math!

      If I formally learned about subsidiarity, I don't recall. I don't recall being taught anything as selfish and "I got mine" as these conservatives try to claim the Church's teachings mean.

      And I'll bet you this:

      "Positive subsidiarity", which is the ethical imperative for communal, institutional or governmental action to create the social conditions necessary to the full development of the individual, such as the right to work, decent housing, health care, etc., is another important aspect of the subsidiarity principle.
      is not what Ryan wants people to learn about subsidiarity.

      We view "The Handmaid's Tale" as cautionary. The GOP views it as an instruction book.

      by Vita Brevis on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 02:06:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The Pat Robertson Liberty Catholic School of (0+ / 0-)

      the IBSC.

  •  good thing he can selectively choose which (5+ / 0-)

    Catholic principles to adhere to and those icky inconvenient ones he can ignore

    "I'm sculpting now. Landscapes mostly." ~ Yogi Bear

    by eXtina on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:13:42 PM PDT

  •  what? (2+ / 0-)

    A Catholic is ignoring the Catholic Church?

    Get outta here!

    27, white male, TX-26 (current), TN-09 (born), TN-08 (where parents live now)

    by TDDVandy on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:15:41 PM PDT

  •  According to him it is our duty to remove his (5+ / 0-)

    assets from him.

    Christianity

    "The eye of a needle" is part of a saying of Jesus recorded in the synoptic gospels:

        “I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” Matthew 19:23-24

    Parallel versions appear in Mark 10:24-25, and Luke 18:24-25.

    The saying was a response to a young rich man who had asked Jesus what he needed to do in order to inherit eternal life. Jesus replied that he should keep the commandments, to which the man stated he had done. Jesus responded, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." The young man became sad and was unwilling to do this. Jesus then spoke this response, leaving his disciples astonished.

    we now must raise his taxes to save him.

  •  Odds... (2+ / 0-)

    That the Catholic Bishops will actually hold Ryan into account over this?  Zero.

    'Osama Bin Ladien is still dead and GM is still alive' - Joe Biden

    by RichM on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:18:38 PM PDT

  •  "don’t make people dependent on government" (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RickMassimo, Calamity Jean

    Yeah, cuz libertarians never depend on government...

    Silvio Levy

  •  Did Ryan Say: "social magisterium"? (4+ / 0-)

    Usually it's referred to as the "social teaching of the church" and that embraces everything from a just wage to capital punishment. Now immigration issues.

    Using those big latin church words for obfuscation.

    We know Paul Ryan's values.

    "Mitt Romney is, primarily, a corporation. If he is a person, it is only via the transitive property foisted upon us by the Supreme Court." Hunter

    by wild hair on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:25:22 PM PDT

  •  Conservative Catholics have misused (3+ / 0-)

    social Catholic teaching for 30 plus years.  Charity is not justice;  Catholic social teaching is about economic justice.

    I am  a recovering Catholic.  One of the reasons I left is because the Church does not consistently live up to its own social justice teaching.  Problem is that it has been hijacked once again (as has been the case over 2000 years) by the conservative pharisees.

    "Since when did obeying corporate power become patriotic." Going the Distance

    by Going the Distance on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:27:16 PM PDT

  •  I hate people who hide behind (3+ / 0-)

    God to spread hate. Be honest about it Ryan! Don't blame God.

    Where are all the jobs, Boehner?

    by Dirtandiron on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:27:17 PM PDT

  •  Hilarious! (5+ / 0-)

    Per Wikipedia,

    Subsidiarity is an organizing principle that matters ought to be handled by the smallest, lowest or least centralized competent authority.
    Because we all know that the Catholic Church entrusts its local churches and affiliated organizations with all decision-making, except when it involves gay adoption, birth control coverage of catholic university employees, the role of women in the church, reporting pedophile priests to law enforcement, etc etc etc.

    I guess the Vatican does trust its local orgs to handle such key decisions as -- um, when to have lunch, maybe?

    Democracy - Not Plutocracy!

    by vulcangrrl on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:27:17 PM PDT

  •  Did they happen to show Ryan crossing his fingers (0+ / 0-)

    while he spewed that steaming, frothy pile of panderosity?

    Egads.

    Michigan's new state motto: "Fuckin' Coup"

    by here4tehbeer on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:27:26 PM PDT

  •  This is a crucial part of the quote: (0+ / 0-)

    "By not having big government crowd out civic society, but by having enough space in our communities so that we can interact with each other, and take care of people who are down and out in our communities."

    Honestly, I think that Ryan really means this.  Apart from his being the corrup GOP politician that he is, I do believe that he is a Catholic who in his best moments really believes that big government "crowds out civic society."

    Here's the thing:  What does he mean by "big government"?

    Someone should ask him if federal tax exemptions for religious charities and organizations are "big government" that should be eliminated.  

    Someone should ask him if his government-paid salary and health insurance are "big government" that should be cut.

    That's one more thing to add to my long list of small problems. --my son, age 10

    by concernedamerican on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:28:30 PM PDT

  •  Ayn Rand Now Sainted! (2+ / 0-)

    Apparently, although off the radar of the Church's leadership, Ayn Rand has now been made a Roman Catholic saint. Since in these latter days (no pun intended), either martyrdom or three documented miracles are prerequisites for sainthood, Ayn Rand has some secret biography floating around and Paul Ryan is an official member of the Curia.

    Kidding aside, if there is any way that this dichotomy between the US Catholic bishops and Ryan's delusions and attempts to rewrite official positions of the US bishops could be brought out (like asking about this when one of the bishops appears on the TV, or reading excerpts of the bishops positions to Ryan next time he's on the TV) then the impact on Ryan's credibility would be huge.

    Jesus does not care at all for hypocrites, or those who presume to twist his message to suit their own ends.

    "We will find fulfillment not in the goods that we have, but in the good we can do for each other." ~ RFK

    by paz3 on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:28:34 PM PDT

  •  I seriously doubt Ryan said this (0+ / 0-)
    which is one of the primary tenants of Catholic social teaching
    I bet he said "tenets", don't you think?

    You probably should ad a [sic].

  •  HUH? (2+ / 0-)

    This is the same guy that makes everyone read Ayn Rand?  The Atheist philosopher that based her work on the elevation of the individual self-enlightened interest?  This is what happens when the wingnuts learn a new word but skip over the "how to use it in a sentence" examples afterwards.

  •  A man guided by his faith (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Calamity Jean

    Darth Paulryan
    Darth Paulryan

    Just getting a handle on the knobs and dials.... Hey, don't touch that!

    by Old Lefty on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:28:49 PM PDT

  •  Oh, if only the Catholic Church bishops (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Observerinvancouver

    gave a shit about any of their own teachings on helping the poor, sick, etc.  Too bad that's not gonna happen because their version of Jesus wants the church leaders to shit on women and gay people instead of doing any of the things the real Jesus actually said in the Bible.

  •  When Did Jesus Become A Republican (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Observerinvancouver, createpeace

    I want to know.

    "Mitt Romney is, primarily, a corporation. If he is a person, it is only via the transitive property foisted upon us by the Supreme Court." Hunter

    by wild hair on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:31:05 PM PDT

  •  What a sick fuck. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Observerinvancouver, GreenMother

    What a perversion of the teaching of Jesus.

    "I have spent many years of my life in opposition and I rather like the role." - Eleanor Roosevelt. I would like to add that I am a happy atheist!

    by Rogneid on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:32:08 PM PDT

  •  Unbelievable distortion of the principle of ... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Observerinvancouver, suzq

    subsidiarity and the preferential option for the poor. The Acton Institute and the late Richard Neuhaus's version perhaps. Monsignor John Ryan (obviously no relation) would be amazed at how he twisted and perverted the social teachings .... it is so discouraging how Ryan and his pals are trying to create a new Catholic Calvinism!

    We are a social people--we are not individualist! Being made in the image of God 'imago Dei' means we believe in the incarnation and that we can only know God, by loving our neighbor. Subsidiarity is the principle that is applied so that when the individual or the family unit cannot address the problem, there is an acceptance that there is a proper role of government in solving social problems. He has turned it on its head--if you think Ayn Rand and Catholic Social Teaching are compatible--well ...ugh ... polar opposites!!!

  •  The religious plan for the poor (2+ / 0-)

    1) Make the homeless work at telemarketers, then take away the pittance they earn for a sleeping mat on a warehouse floor. And throw them back out on the street forcibly if they come in drunk.

    2) Feed them abundant helpings of Jesus and self-blame: anyone who really wants to can succeed in America!

    Women are the only oppressed group not allowed to name their oppressors.

    by atana on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:34:50 PM PDT

  •  What a liar !!!! (0+ / 0-)

    This is pure and utter BS I don't believe this guy means anything he says, he's just another ambitious GOP politician  using and distorting religion to further his cause.
     

    Whoever controls the media, the images, controls the culture

    by nezzclay on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:37:14 PM PDT

  •  THAT'S WHY WE HAVE GOVERNMENT WELFARE (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    createpeace, Calamity Jean

    The brainiac interviewer should have asked if he was prepared to call for all persons who need shelter, food, medical care, assistance of any kind, to mob the nearest Catholic church and demand help.

    Let's get this clear.  Churches used to be the only source of welfare-type assistance, and they HATED it.  In case you haven't read Dickens in a while, they were lousy at it.  We have government welfare because the chruches screamed to have that monkey lifted from their backs.

  •  It's amazing how much closer Pres. Obama (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ma2004, createpeace, Calamity Jean

    is to the teachings of Jesus as set out in the Gospels than either Paul Ryan or Rick Warren is.

    We must, indeed, all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately. B. Franklin

    by Observerinvancouver on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:40:03 PM PDT

  •  "the preferential option for the poor.... (6+ / 0-)
    which is one of the primary tenants of Catholic social teaching, means don’t keep people poor, don’t make people dependent on government so that they stay stuck at their station in life. Help people get out of poverty out onto life of independence."
    And what's the GOP plan to get people out of poverty and  onto independence?

    More tax cuts for themselves
    War on public education and student loans
    Fight against equal pay for women
    Allow middle-class jobs to continue to be outsourced
    Continue policies that place the burden of TBTF banks on the backs of the taxpayers

    Its all working out very well......for THEM.

  •  Separation of Church and State (0+ / 0-)

    When the Catholic Church starts paying taxes then the Catholic Bishops or whichever group of Catholics, will have a right to an opinion on matters of State.  Until such time they should keep their mouths shut, and clean up the damage caused by their own sick clergy.  Paul Ryan is a phony that cares only about the 1 %, as do most republicans.  

  •  As with all organized religion, they hail the (0+ / 0-)

    elements which serve their needs, wants, desires, behaviors, etc., and ignore the rest.

  •  I guess he shows his love for his children by (0+ / 0-)

    throwing them in the river to see if they sink or swim?

    "I think it is much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers that might be wrong." Richard Feynman

    by leema on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 01:58:15 PM PDT

  •  Watch the "we believe in...." comment!! (0+ / 0-)

     When they say, "we believe in blah people", "we believe in the poor", etc, etc, etc, it's another way of saying, "WE'RE NOT GOING TO DO A DAMN THING".

  •  It's actions like Ryan's... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    createpeace, exterris

    ...that make Christianity look cheap and hypocritical. Those of us who try to follow Christ's teachings are appalled and ashamed by actions like his.

    "Mitt Romney isn't a vulture capitalist: vultures only eat things that are dead." -S. Colbert

    by newinfluence on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 02:09:54 PM PDT

  •  He only means that he follows (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Calamity Jean

    the Bishop's catholic faith in the war on women.   The help the poor thing with the budget is where he lapses.   A new style of 'cafeteria' catholic.  Dumpsters for the poor,  filet for the rich.  God's plan, don't you know.

  •  'Tenants'? TENANTS??? (0+ / 0-)

    Hey Mr. Serious Thinker: It's TENETS, you fucking Randian fuckwad soulless hypocritical UN-Christian piece of shit!

  •  If he were emulating the Catholic persons (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    WheninRome

    who work wonders of charity in S. American or in India, who try like hell to end suffering and give people a hand up, then I would admire what he has to say.

    But lately what do we see of that church?

    Religious hegemony, the war on women, violating women's first and 9th and 10th Amendment rights, the huge, global, multi-generational, organized, institutionalized sexual and physical abuse of children by priests,

    and now this all out class war against the poor, which is apparently an attempt to make people so impoverished and miserable, that they must turn like broken horses to the churches outstretched hand for some food and comfort [in exchange for your immortal soul of course].

    No thanks Ryan.

     I would rather dumpster dive.

  •  Paul Ryan: Lying Pharisee. $20 phrases like... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    GreenMother, RickMassimo

    "social magisterium" cannot conceal the stark reality that his vicious budget proposal will throw millions of seniors and poor Americans to the wolves just to pay for even more tax cuts for billionaires. You can't run further away from the teachings of Jesus Christ if you tried.

    Paul Ryan is a fucking Pharisee of the worst kind.

    •  Nothing says I love you to Grandma and Grandpa (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Ralphdog, Calamity Jean

      like throwing them off of SSN, after they paid into it for a lifetime, building this country's infrastructure, fighting it's wars and raising it's children.

      But you know this is so predictable. Whenever the GOPers rail about some imagined sin of the Democrats, usually it's time to watch them closely because that is how they project their next move to the public.

      Remember all the Death Panel bullshit?

      Well throw the elderly and disabled off of SSN, end their healthcare and that is what the GOPers will have become and engendered.

      Death Panels.

  •  ?? (0+ / 0-)
    "By not having big government crowd out civic society, but by having enough space in our communities so that we can interact with each other, and take care of people who are down and out in our communities."
    Civics is government. Last I looked we had a secular gov't.

    What is he smoking?

  •  Understanding 'subsidiarity' by Fr. Bryan Hehir (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Calamity Jean

    From "Democracy, Social Values, and Public Policy" edited by Milton Michael Carrow, Robert Paul Churchill, and Joseph J. Cordes (Praeger, 1998)

    This is written by Fr. Bryan Hehir--the premier Catholic social thinker in the US. Former Catholic Charities USA, President and current right hand man to Cardinal Sean O'Malley.

    "The principle seeks to protect personal and communal freedom in society by preserving social space. It prescribes a method of social policy not a substantive outcome. Specifically, it seeks to respond to social needs and to shape economic life by personal and group initiatives. The role of the state is to be a subsidiumand support system for initiatives undertaken in the wider society. But the principle presumes and requires that unfulfilled human needs and basic social necessities must be met; hence if private initiatives or action of social groups cannot meet these objectives, the state must assume the responsibility.

    In brief, while the principle seeks to set limits on state power, it is not a laissez-faire conception of government. The activist state is as important as the limited state."

    Bryan Hehir is an authority on Catholic Social Teaching ... whoever educated Ryan is certainly not!
  •  Matthew 22:15-22 (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Calamity Jean

    "Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's."

    Lord knows, we've been debating this ever since Jesus said it.

    Mohandas Gandhi had the most interesting take on the passage.  

    Jesus evaded the direct question put to him because it was a trap. He was in no way bound to answer it. He therefore asked to see the coin for taxes. And then said with withering scorn, "How can you who traffic in Caesar's coins and thus receive what to you are benefits of Caesar's rule refuse to pay taxes?" Jesus' whole preaching and practice point unmistakably to noncooperation, which necessarily includes nonpayment of taxes.
    But again, "How can you who traffic in Caesar's coins and thus receive the benefits of Caesar's rule refuse to pay taxes?"
  •  I really dislike... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ma2004, Calamity Jean

    ... how Ryan has perverted the Catholic faith for his own Randian agenda.

    I am Catholic, and one of the first things we're taught about society is SOCIAL JUSTICE. We read the bible at Mass and we learn lessons about caring for the poor, the elderly, the sick. We PRAY FOR THEM that they may find justice, provide support and programs to help them, and hopefully vote in politicians who support and will introduce legislation to help "the least among us."

    Ryan has admitted that he is a HUGE follower of Ayn Rand - that he makes his staff read Atlas Shrugged. Ayn Rand is antithetical to Catholic teaching. Objectivism is about the self, and it centers the followers world around the followers self. Catholicism, when practiced to Christ's teachings, is geared towards turning one's self outward to others, to the least among us.

    I really REALLY REALLY hate that Ryan is "a face" to Catholicism and that people attribute his selfish and horrific attitudes to all Catholics. We are NOT like that.

    Had Christ practiced Objectivism - the rationalizing of one's actions to support one's selfish means (remember, Rand PROMOTED selfishness as a GOOD trait) - He would have never died on the cross. And this is something that Ryan doesn't get.

    Ryan is a disturbed, greedy, and selfish asshole. A perfect Randian.

    ------
    Oh hey, I'm adding this before I click post.

    Catholics have been an historically democratic voting block BECAUSE of our social justice teachings and leanings. I left the Church for other reasons and decided to come back nearly 2 decades later.

    It was not a church I remember and the laity were not what I remembered. Many have become "reicht wing" cruel. It has been co-opted.

    I then saw the documentary, "With God On Our Side" about the rise of the Christian right. I don't remember one pastor's name, but he FLAT OUT ADMITTED that they wanted the Catholic vote for republicans. And what did they use to "unite" Catholics to their side? The Abortion issue. It is a FLAT OUT ADMISSION that all they wanted was the Catholic vote. My own crazy "conspiracy theory" is that Gingrich only converted so he could have access to the USCCCB. And I've seen the change from having been away to coming back.

    This makes me furious. FURIOUS that the f'ing republicans would go to any length for votes.

    I'm sorry, I'm really trying not to drop the F-bomb. This affects me as a Catholic trying to be part of a Catholic community. I get derided for "supporting baby killers" simply because of how I vote. When that's not it. I get "judged" that I shouldn't receive communion because I "by my vote killed babies."

    UGH!!! Ok, I have to stop writing. I'm so angry. So furious about how Ryan, Boehner, and Gingrich wear their false and perverted sense of Catholicism and wicked rationalizations for the evil they do to people.

  •  Forcing YOU to join a religion (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Calamity Jean

    That's what the Ryan budget is all about.

    Surely we can do a better job reading between the lines.

    The Ryan budget, but forcing people off of government assistance will be FORCED to seek help from religious organizations that because of Bush we are already subsidizing.

    Otherwise, the budget would set up a funding mechanism for local states and communities to manage.

    It also has the ancillary effect of impeding mobility. If you're tied to a local community for support, how can you ever leave?

    What separates us, divides us, and diminishes the human spirit.

    by equern on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 03:14:29 PM PDT

  •  My head is spinning (0+ / 0-)

    Here is Jesus' parable of "The Sheep and the Goats"
    Matthew 25:31-46

    31“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

    34“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

    37“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

    40“The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’

    41“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

    44“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

    45“He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

    46“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

    Now where in all that above did it say "I was hungry and you made sure that I did not become dependent on any handout from you. So welcome to the Kingdom of Heaven" Really these people don't understand their own religion or at least what they claim is their religion.

  •  Ryan and Catholics bishop's lobby (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    prgsvProgrammerChick

    The Catholic church was the leading organization lobbying congress in the 60s to increase welfare benefits to the poor and continue to do so, at both the state and federal level. However both Ryan and the Church do not seem to get the connection between  reducing poverty and planning families.

  •  Government closest to the people governs best? (0+ / 0-)
    To me, the principle of subsidiarity, which is really federalism, meaning government closest to the people governs best ...
    You know, of all the LIES conservatives have gotten away with over the past 30 years, this one's a dark horse that's very underrated on the list - this idea that the state and local governments are more responsive, more efficient and less corrupt than the federal government.

    Is this true in your state? I bet it isn't. WhoTF doesn't have a story about dealing with crooks and brain-dead morons in their state and municipal governments? No one.

    So what is it? Is it really only a meme that developed as a "polite" way of keeping up Jim Crow? I thought there must be some other origin, but I'm running out of ideas.

    P.S.: Since I guarantee you that not one of Our Media Stars has ever heard the word "subsidiarity," Ryan will get another six months of oohing and aahing about how smart he is just from that one word.

    Fight until we win. Then we can begin arguing about the details. - Kwickkick (RIP) 2009

    by RickMassimo on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 04:03:07 PM PDT

  •  You want to know a possible reason why these (0+ / 0-)

    folks want the Church to handle taking care of the poor rather than the government? Its so that people become more dependent on the Church allowing them to push their agenda and consolidate control.

    The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy;the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness

    by CTMET on Tue Apr 10, 2012 at 04:58:06 PM PDT

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