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2004 -  " Who's the toughest guy I know? Castro.  . . He's a bull ... dictator and everybody's against him and he still survives, has power. ... I don't admire his philosophy, I admire him."

2004 - "But often times I'm asked: Why? Why do you care what happens outside of America?"

COINCIDENCE? I think NOT!
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

FROM THE CHURCH OF INEFFABLE STUPIDITY:

There's something about this country that scares and confuses me. A goodly, godly percentage of this country's population seems to worship stupidity and willful ignorance.

Case in point:

Rick Santorum.

It took yet another serious illness for this major league doofus to finally understand that a run for president cannot succeed if you only rely on prayer, and if you promote ideas and ideals that will both piss and turn off more than 50% of the population.

Michelle Bachmann

I am still shocked (and awed) that she could win Iowa. This is a walking, talking, unthinking moranette, a woman who is so far off the track that my only explanation for her campaign is that there exists a small, very rich, and extremely powerful people who actually run this country. Their only common denominator? An extremely wicked sense of humor.

George Bush, the Wth

One oft stated reason for his victory over a far more qualified Al Gore was visceral, emotional, in nature. Bush voters were far more interested in having a beer with Bush than a chat with Gore. People admired his faith, his love of god, and dammit, THAT is the answer right there.

Each one of these village idiots willfully put their delusional faith ahead of any rational thinking about any serious issue. Religion, it seems drives stupidity and ignorance.

When you think about it (That's a joke, for you true believers here) organized religions have been extremely afraid of science and learning, and have done everything in their power to prevent education or knowledge from becoming broadly distributed to the public at large. While Christianity's war on science dates back far longer than Galileo (bible ownership was once a crime, because people were not permitted to learn by themselves), other religions are just as culpable and guilty of such crimes against humanity. Just look at AIDS, cloning, stem cell research, today, and when you look more carefully, those attacking and seeking to prevent progress on each of those issues, you see a religious freak behind it.

Well, let me be blunt. Science, the scientific method, and rational thinking - these are the gifts that humanity must use to save itself, to better itself and to be able to meet our destiny. NOT religion. In fact, religion, especially organized religion kills. When it doesn't kill, it destroys brain cells and preclude rational thought. Lettuce prey, indeed.

Now, how does this relate to Ozzie?

First, let's think about what Ozzie really said.  "I love Fidel Castro."

On prior occasions, he admitted that he thought he was courageous, that he stood up to everyone in the world, and that he succeeded where his enemies had failed.

Now what the fuck is wrong with that?

Absolutely nothing. Castro did not wipe out millions of his own people. Castro did not start world wars. For all his faults, and there were many of them, Castro managed to confound and outlive a super power which faces his shores, despite the fact that that super power has never, not once, since 1918 had a year in which we did not use our military for one reason or another. We even invaded several of his neighbors, and succeeded in deposing those nearby rulers who managed to anger us. Especially if they won democratic elections. And still he survived. And still he managed to raise his country's literacy rate from 65-70% to 98%.

Castro survived Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, and Bush, despite every one of them stating it was in America's best interests to have a Castro free Carib.

Besides, doesn't christianity teach people to love thy neighbors, to turn the other cheek, and to love their enemies?   It just strikes me that those people most upset about what Ozzie said just happen to be christian conservative GOP voters, which seems par for the course. Ignorance of the facts has never stopped them before. It certainly won't stop them now.

But a five game suspension for Ozzie? Now, simply for speaking his mind, that is Ineffably Stupid.

Originally posted to Church of Ineffable Stupidity on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 07:15 AM PDT.

Also republished by The Wide World of Sports.

Poll

Do you support the Marlins, Ozzie, or Castro?

28%22 votes
10%8 votes
26%21 votes
23%18 votes
2%2 votes
5%4 votes
3%3 votes

| 78 votes | Vote | Results

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (12+ / 0-)

    What we call god is merely a living creature with superior technology & understanding. If their fragile egos demand prayer, they lose that superiority.

    by agnostic on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 07:15:40 AM PDT

  •  It came down to business (11+ / 0-)

    Just like we force Rush advertisers away, Marlin fans would do the same if something wasn't done.

    Marlins had no choice from a business perspective.

    Sometimes people will organize a boycott for an issue we may not agree with, but the consequences to the business remain the same.

    •  Cuban-Americans are so different from Mexican-... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      agnostic, bewareofme

      ...Americans in their hatred for a certain political leader.

      In Mexico, after the presidential election was stolen by a RightWing NutCase in Calderon, 50% of the Mexican-Americans supported him while 50% continue to believe that he stole the election.  

      No unity, and a lot of divisions even within families.

      Not so in Miami.

      Learn about Centrist Economics, learn about Robert Rubin's Hamilton Project. http://www1.hamiltonproject.org/es/hamilton/hamilton_hp.htm

      by PatriciaVa on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 07:56:07 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  so, it's a matter of real estate? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        PatriciaVa, bewareofme

        Location, Location, Location?

        What we call god is merely a living creature with superior technology & understanding. If their fragile egos demand prayer, they lose that superiority.

        by agnostic on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 08:02:27 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  As I was reading you, I was thinking that (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          agnostic

          it just might be location at the root of his success and power. Not an expert, but that was the first thought that came to my mind.

          Obviously Castro's persona was the bloom from that root.

          •  that does make sense (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            bewareofme

            especially with an island mentality.

            I was also thinking of Haiti and Dominican Republic. I spent some time in DR, a wonderful, warm, friendly place, where I learned some more details about Rush's bizarre tastes. I cannot prove what I heard, but it wasn't pretty.

            Still, the two countries have a natural barrier between them, and both clearly took different paths.

            What we call god is merely a living creature with superior technology & understanding. If their fragile egos demand prayer, they lose that superiority.

            by agnostic on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 01:54:17 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  he is the face of their team... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    agnostic, dougymi

    so bad move on his part.  they knew what they got when they hired him.  
    make him the first base coach if he is not up to the job of representing a company worth hundreds of millions of $$$.

    The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all. John F. Kennedy

    by ebbet on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 07:24:55 AM PDT

    •  When he was in Chicago, I rather (0+ / 0-)

      enjoyed his off the cuff (non)bon mots, if only for the entertainment value.

      But then, I don't care much for that sport.

      What we call god is merely a living creature with superior technology & understanding. If their fragile egos demand prayer, they lose that superiority.

      by agnostic on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 08:04:18 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  He's free to say it...but... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    agnostic, bewareofme

    he apparently thought better of it after he saw what the social and economic consequences would be if he kept himself tied to that comment.

    I mean look what happened to Sinead O'Conner after she attacked the Pope.  

    She's about a merkan away from a lunatic asylum and hasn't had a hit song in two decades.

  •  Not a fan of Ozzie. (0+ / 0-)

    I was sorry to see his bigoted run in MLB extended by his hiring by Miami. The sooner he's retired, the better.

  •  As near as I can tell the government didn't (9+ / 0-)

    sanction Ozzie for his "free speech", the Marlins did. Do I personally think they should have? No. But those of us on the left are perfectly happy to see people sanctioned and fired by their employers when some wingnut says something that is offensive to us and most of us (with some exceptions of course) don't seem to mind. This is no different.

    "I smoke. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your fuckin' mouth." --- Bill Hicks

    by voroki on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 07:28:23 AM PDT

  •  since 1918? (4+ / 0-)

    I'd go back to at least 1846 to the Mexican American war if you don't count all the Indian wars.

    "The Mexican War was one of the most unjust wars ever waged by a stronger against a weaker nation."
    U.S. Grant

    "White-collar conservatives flashing down the street. Pointing their plastic finger at me."

    by BOHICA on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 07:29:04 AM PDT

    •  That was my first impulse, but (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      BOHICA, Wreck Smurfy

      I didn't have the energy to search out that time frame of our wars and armed conflicts. And, there may have been a short time after our most (un)Civil War during which we fought no one else. Of course, with 750,000 casualties, we were hardly in the mood.

      What we call god is merely a living creature with superior technology & understanding. If their fragile egos demand prayer, they lose that superiority.

      by agnostic on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 07:36:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  What did Marge Schott say ? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dougymi, bewareofme

    OH yah.  She had a long list of bad things people should not say .  

    Yes,  stupid people, say stupid things.

    " With religion you can't get just a little pregnant"

    by EarTo44 on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 07:39:45 AM PDT

    •  Would you also characterize as "stupid" a liberal. (0+ / 0-)

      ...expressing his admiration of an extremist bigot like Bill Maher?

      Es Pregunta.

      Learn about Centrist Economics, learn about Robert Rubin's Hamilton Project. http://www1.hamiltonproject.org/es/hamilton/hamilton_hp.htm

      by PatriciaVa on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 07:52:32 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  He wasn't suspended by Government... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Phil S 33, Loge, bewareofme

    He works for a business that has it's new many hundred million dollar stadium built in Little Havana for crying out loud.  

  •  Note the subject of the sentence... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dougymi, PsychoSavannah, Phil S 33, Loge

    ...in the First Amendment, bolded for your enlightenment.

    Congress shall make no law [...] abridging the freedom of speech
    The First Amendment covers only government restrictions on speech. It says nothing at all about Ozzie Guillen's employers disciplining him for his speech, particularly when it hurts the bottom line.

    Oh, and this is just wrong:

    It just strikes me that those people most upset about what Ozzie said just happen to be christian conservative GOP voters, which seems par for the course.
    The people most upset about what Ozzie said were the Cuban ex-pat community, who were threatening boycotts, and whose support is absolutely necessary to the success of the Miami Marlins (whose brand-new stadium, lest we forget, is in a neighborhood called Little Havana). To my knowledge, that community isn't predominantly "Christian conservative," at least insofar as their being of the Christian Right bent. They're just pretty strongly anti-Castro.

    "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

    by JamesGG on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 08:01:00 AM PDT

  •  It's a mob telling others what to do or else. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PatriciaVa

    It's ugly. There's no defence for it except "That's the way it is".

    We're fools whether we dance or not, so we might as well dance.

    by PowWowPollock on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 08:06:33 AM PDT

    •  Elian Gonzalez and the 2000 general election (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      agnostic, bewareofme

      At times I wonder how many votes Elian's departure from Miami cost the Democratic Party in the fall election.

      Learn about Centrist Economics, learn about Robert Rubin's Hamilton Project. http://www1.hamiltonproject.org/es/hamilton/hamilton_hp.htm

      by PatriciaVa on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 08:09:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  before 1991, the lithuanian community (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        PatriciaVa

        in CHicago (the largest collection outside of that country) there was love and support for Lithuanian SSR, with the faint hope that they would get independence.

        When that small country had a revolution and threw out the Soviets, everyone rejoiced. We flew there, we held seminars, gave bad advice, and even I was asked to teach law there by the State Department.

        But once the 3d wave (immigrants from a now free Lithuania) began arriving onshore, the reaction was fear, loathing and discrimination from many of the older crowd.

        Many Chicago Lithuanians claimed that the newcomers were "ruined" by the system and therefore not trustworthy. I suspect that when Castro dies, and the borders open up, the same will happen to Cubans coming here.

        What we call god is merely a living creature with superior technology & understanding. If their fragile egos demand prayer, they lose that superiority.

        by agnostic on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 08:18:20 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Who is "Ozzie" ??? (0+ / 0-)

    Some background would be nice.....like, his name to start with.  Why this person is important?

    •  Ozzie Guillen, manager of some kid's sport (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Musial

      in Florida. He was asked who was the most courageous person he knew, and he said, "Fidel Castro."

      He also said he admired him.

      What we call god is merely a living creature with superior technology & understanding. If their fragile egos demand prayer, they lose that superiority.

      by agnostic on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 08:20:10 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  basically, (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bewareofme

        Ozzie Guillen made a totally apolitical statement filled with macho bullshit posturing, and the local Cubans showed him how it's done.  

        To hear baseball commentators all side in that, yes, the Cubans are right to be upset with Ozzie when (a) Ozzie never thinks before he speaks, (b) was not praising his policies in any way, and (c) when the Cuban expats object not to Castro's being a dictator but being a dictator who was not Batista, it's absurd.  He's not going to learn to think in a five game suspension, but it will give time for the local political bosses to show the new guy how things are done down there.

        Interestingly, the diarist kind of has a point about the first amendment.  Not literally, of course, but first amendment values.  We could live in a free society like Britain where the explicitly racist is treated the way the U.S. only treats direct incitements to violence.  We chose not to.  Now, in the case of Rush, he's someone who wants his words to have consequences so repercussions are fine.  In the case of Guillen, I'd rather see the remedy be not something punitive but let others make an affirmative case for their own beliefs.  Ideally, on Guillen's terms.  Resolved:  Fidel Castro is not a tough guy.  Good luck with that.  An added wrinkle is that the Miami Marlins are a private entity but they have a ton of city money.  Should they perhaps act in some respects as if they were public?

        He also said the word "loved" was a simple matter of not translating Spanish to English.  

        The study of law was certainly a strange discipline. -- Yukio Mishima

        by Loge on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 09:07:08 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Then a forced confession-soviet style. (0+ / 0-)

        Capitalist reeducation includes suspending him from his job.

  •  Marlins did the right thing: It's all about the (0+ / 0-)

    business end of things.
    Of course, it's their own fault for hiring such a character as Ozzie, who often speaks before thinking.

    •  They hired Ozzie because he knows how to win (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Phil S 33

      I think we can agree on that.  Like you said (in another context) it's all about the business end of things.

      Guillen has a long history of emotional outbursts and speaking before thinking.  The Marlins hired him to manage an up-and-coming franchise because he's a good coach who knows the game, and surely, they were well aware of his past verbal indiscretions.  You hire someone like him, and you hire his baggage as well.  It was a risk-benefit decision on the part of Marlins ownership.

      I hope he can ride through this and learn; I suspect however that Marlins management will look for any excuse to fire him after the suspension.

      Please Click here to help me get a round 2 Netroots Nation scholarship! Thanks!!

      by Richard Cranium on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 08:38:15 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I'm of two thoughts on this (0+ / 0-)

    1) I think Ozzie was very in-artful in expressing what many of us feel: that the continuing economic embargo of Cuba by the U.S. is counterproductive on a lot of levels.  I don't feel he was expressing true admiration for Castro himself, only that he admires the fact that Castro has outlived so many of his adversaries and had the courage of his convictions through at least a half a century.  We could argue all day about the repressive and sometimes brutal nature of the Castro regime and I'm not lauding Castro myself.  English is Guillen's second language, and like I said, I think Ozzie was in-artful in his remarks.

    2) The Marlins are a professional sports team.  Guillen is their manager, and made a serious mistake in publicly injecting Caribbean politics into his job.  That being said, what we're completely missing is context.  In the offending Time Magazine profile of Guillen where the Castro remarks were reported, there is no context for the exact question / reporter's remark on what prompted Guillen's response.  Ozzie is a very, very good baseball man, but if you look at his history, he's also an extremely volatile and emotional guy who has said stupid things before.

    So, to the question of the diary - did he get screwed in the five game suspension?  It was probably necessary in order for the shitstorm to pass.  But Ozzie being Ozzie, there will be more verbal shitstorms in the future.

    Please Click here to help me get a round 2 Netroots Nation scholarship! Thanks!!

    by Richard Cranium on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 08:31:46 AM PDT

    •  He didn't express number 1. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      burlydee

      He was expressing no more than what he literally said, that he admires Fidel Castro because he's a macho tough guy.  This is Ozzie Guillen.  Part of not thinking is not having well developed political views.

      While Guillen may have stepped in it, it's a mistake in my view for the local Cuban exile powers to so thoroughly overreact to what is clearly tough guy bullshit.  Besides, they're just upset Castro replaced their preferred dictator, not that he is himself one.  Guillen is himself Venezuelan, so he has to walk something of a fine line -- though the fact that he has criticized Chavez before this incident should be enough for the local Miamians to srug it off.  

      What I think is happening is that this is a power play -- the Cuban exile leaders see a changing Miami and are attacking Guillen just to prove they're still relevant.

      The study of law was certainly a strange discipline. -- Yukio Mishima

      by Loge on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 09:11:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  He's lucky he wasn't fired. (0+ / 0-)

    Five games is nothing.

    "The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die."

    by rscopes on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 08:55:41 AM PDT

  •  Fidel runs one of the best MLB farm clubs there is (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    agnostic, Shifty18, Roger Fox
  •  It's a perfectly fine solomonic consequence (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    agnostic, Roger Fox

    They didn't fire him and they didn't say it was OK.  Miami Cubans are, in the end, Miami Cubans because they either hated Castro enough to leave, or he made them leave.  That's independent of whether you think Castro was good, bad, or indifferent.  Miami Cubans have a strong collective-autobiographical reason to hate Castro. That's a good enough reason for someone who has no reason to say anything about Castro to refrain from saying anything on the Miami Cubans' home turf.

    I have a negative view of Christianity but if I wanted a gig as office manager of a Catholic parish I wouldn't give a magazine interview about my admiration for Satan's toughness.

    But nobody's buying flowers from the flower lady.

    by Rich in PA on Wed Apr 11, 2012 at 11:04:54 AM PDT

  •  Diary is completely wrong - Ozzie does NOT (0+ / 0-)

    have the right to speak his mind without repercussion from his EMPLOYER.  Regardless of whether you think Miami Cubans should just let this crap go (totally reasonable, I'd even agree) - they are still paying customers, and given the publicly funded stadium in Little Havana, they are paying more than just their tickets.  You just cannot tolerate an employee spitting on your customers - full stop.  This has nothing to do with the first amendment, or the right for a private citizen to do what he damn well pleases.  Ozzie was asked a question by a sports reporter ostensibly as the manager of Miami's baseball club - you have to know who signs the checks.

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