Skip to main content

Like this one for instance:

The builder hopes to race this baby at the Bonneville Salt Flats in Utah to recapture the steam land record for America from the colonists.

All he needs is an engine.

Maybe he could borrow one from the Navy or Army or Marines - or China.  The Navy is furthest advanced (yes, the U.S. Navy).  The Navy might be planning to use such an engine in one of their nuclear-tipped missiles so they can be green as they go about their mission.

Beats coal favored by many kossacks and Detroit.

Take it from a crank, namely James T. Crank, below the fold.

Who is this Crank?

Try this:

James D. Crank , a retired engineer with Lockheed and one of the foremost experts on automotive steam engine systems. During his long year career with Lockheed, Mr. Crank worked in senior research positions on many important projects, including: engine development for the Ground Vehicles Department, primary battery systems for the Triton II missile, battery systems for the Hubbell Space Telescope, heat shields for the Mercury and Apollo space systems, and dynamic solar and nuclear space power systems for SDI. Mr. Crank was also a Research Engineer for the Stanford Research Institute where he worked on explosive cladding of materials for cylinder construction in Porsche and Mercedes-Benz, among other projects.

Mr. Crank also has over 50 years experience in restoration, repair and driving of various steam cars, including the total redesign of the complete Doble crankcase assembly and cylinders for the Series E Doble steam cars (with 10 sets constructed), and the design and construction of the current speed world record holding steam car. He served as a consultant on steam car restoration to Harrah Automobile Collection, Nethercutt Collection, Jay Leno Collection, Stephen Finn Collection, and the Besler General Motors Chevelle steam car, among others; and a consultant to the State of California on the steam bus development program.

Obviously this crank has a bias.  No getting around it.

Not sure his comments on the electric car are fit for a family site.

But about that sewage power:

Abstract

This study estimated the kinetics of the mono- and co-combustion of sewage sludge pellets and combustible wastes such as municipal solid waste (MSW) and refuse-derived fuel (RDF). Sewage sludge was manufactured into pellets with a diameter of 8, 12, or 16 mm and a length of 30 mm...

South Korea has been producing a fine, dry, sterile powder for years from municipal sewage in a pilot operation that is then pelletized for fuel and fertilizer.

China may be doing or about to do the same but it is not so easy sometimes to pierce the Bamboo Curtain.  It is a far cry from the "night soil" used for eons as fertilizer in China though the origin is the same.

There is usually concentration on conversion to liquid fuels but why?

Well because you see there is this internal combustion problem.

And isn't that where the problem starts?

External combustion steam power is far older than the internal combustion engine.

Mark Twain's report that the locomotives of the Trans-Egypt Railroad were powered by mummies purchased by the "ton or graveyard" is kind of - umm - like using refuse.  Nobody knows whether Twain was reporting accurately or trying to be funny as he often did.

Besides cars, steam engines even powered aeroplanes.

But we aren't talking about reviving the Stanley Steamer, still an interesting automobile.

Modern improvements make external combustion far more efficient and compact than the internal combustion engine and is widely used in power generation but what do we care?  

It's only one planet we are destroying.  There are probably many other inhabitable planets in the universe.

Best,  Terry

Poll

Would you rather drive

0%0 votes
80%4 votes
20%1 votes

| 5 votes | Vote | Results

EMAIL TO A FRIEND X
Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags

?

More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  Hi. I would love to read a diary about external (0+ / 0-)

    combustion engines. I can go research them now, but it would be great to have that in here along with everything else.

    Poverty = politics.

    by Renee on Sun Apr 29, 2012 at 10:46:33 AM PDT

    •  Hi Renee, (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Renee

      I have written extensively about external combustion engines but there is a huge barrier to overcome since steam engines are equated with a long ago time that has come and gone.  At best they have been treated as novelties, nothing to be taken seriously.

      As usual, it is the military that takes new developments seriously.

      The organic rankine cycle was a decade or two in development and is used extensively in geothermal power and other waste heat applications but is primarily a turbine rather than piston engine for large power generation.

      I am somewhat inhibited in writing here about many uses and variations of the rankine cycle since all are commercial enterprises to varying degrees.

      Best,  Terry

      •  Thank you for giving me a little perspective... (0+ / 0-)

        I should have checked your past diaries. You started a discussion between my son and I this morning, so I thank you for that too.

        And now we will go look up organic rankine cycle.

        Poverty = politics.

        by Renee on Sun Apr 29, 2012 at 11:22:08 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I respect you Terry, (0+ / 0-)

        but this comment is just really biased, certainly the last sentence is incorrect....

        "I took a walk around the world, To ease my troubled mind. I left my body laying somewhere In the sands of time" Kryptonite 3 doors Down

        by farmerchuck on Sun Apr 29, 2012 at 01:24:07 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Could you explain the error you see, farmerchuck? (0+ / 0-)
          •  with it's ability to function at lower temperature (0+ / 0-)

            (albeit with a loss of efficiency,  inherent in the laws of thermodynamocs), and the closed cycle/sealed system approach implied by the current designs on the market, ORC is a natural fit for residential and small scale commercial adaptations, where the use of very low quality waste heat (< 90 C) is present. mostif not all of the large scale commercial applications are not even ORC strictly speaking as they involve a binary system (Kalina cycle seems the most popular for geothermal). The largest pure ORC I can find in a lit search for commercial applications is a 250KW unit for waste heat reclamation using Propane as a working fluid. My objection is principly to the statement that this technique is principally useful  useful only in the commercial sector. Myself and hundreds of others are developing for the smaller markets and DIY'ers, and statements like the above from someone whose opinion is respected impacts the acceptance and development possibilities for all of us.

            "I took a walk around the world, To ease my troubled mind. I left my body laying somewhere In the sands of time" Kryptonite 3 doors Down

            by farmerchuck on Sun Apr 29, 2012 at 03:41:32 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Last Time I Looked (0+ / 0-)

              there were only two geothermal Kalina cycle plants with a third in development.

              The one at the tiny, isolated hamlet of Husavik, Iceland, utilized a garbage-burning facility to squeeze 3MW of power out of tepid waters.  The plant is being renovated after purchase by Wasabi Energy of Australia.

              Another with a different Kalina cycle design is in Germany.

              A third was being planned or constructed or something.

              Ormat, an Israeli geothermal company, with NYSE listing was an early developer of the organic rankine cycle and is regarded as the single most pure geothermal power play for large companies.

              I have made no count but I believe the great majority of their plants are binary cycle and they also contract to build plants.

              The world record for low temperature generation of geothermal power was accomplished at Chena Hot Springs northeast of Fairbanks, Alaska, with "reverse air conditioning" by United Technologies.

              Just for the record.  

              Again  I am awed by your efforts and hope you keep us informed.

              Best,  Terry

              •  the alaska plant I have looked into... (0+ / 0-)

                is also a basically a Kalina cycle binary plant.
                Our company (or possibly a co-op, we haven't made the decision yet) will be 100% worker owned, and one way or the other will be forming in the next couple of weeks. We currently call ourselves Cool Steam. Most of our technologies are Heat engine based, and associated with sustainable energy, agriculture and building efficiency.

                "I took a walk around the world, To ease my troubled mind. I left my body laying somewhere In the sands of time" Kryptonite 3 doors Down

                by farmerchuck on Sun Apr 29, 2012 at 05:54:22 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Anything to allow economically feasable (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                terryhallinan

                power recovery from lower temperature working streams would be great here in Iceland.  The lower the temperatures that are economical to recover from, the more of the water can be used for power generation rather than just heating.  Ultimately we want output waters at around 80C for the municipal delivery system, and the inputs from most of the wells around Reykjavik are rarely more than, say, 130C or so.  Nowadays, to cool the waters down to delivery temperatures, they're usually blended back in with the cooled output streams to multiply the available hot water.  But obviously there's some thermodynamic potential to generate power in the process - only useful, mind you, if you can economically justify the cost of the generation hardware by the value of the power it'll produce.

                •  You Perhaps Know (0+ / 0-)

                  that Chena Hot Springs has set a record for low temperature power generation and says they hope to reduce cost to one cent/kw/hr - which would also be a record I would think.

                  Of course there might be a bit of funny accounting on the figures if and when such happens. :-)

                  In earlier times geothermal water destined for Japanese baths in northern was not allowed to be used for power for fear the "spirits would be removed."  

                  There may be a problem in translation as one might expect some mineralization to cause problems but, in any case, Japan is now more than willing to use such water for power.

                  What wonders your country has accomplished with geothermal power, Rei.  

                  Congratulations.

                  Best,  Terry

  •  Sewerage may stink, but coal kills. Nice effort (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Calamity Jean

    and thanks.

  •  RE 'night soils' we witnessed a young woman (0+ / 0-)

    some years ago walking along with collected night soils in her two 'honey pots' hanging from either end of a pole that was carried on her shoulder.

    Austin makes

    'Dillo Dirt.'
    Next up, fuel, why not?
  •  Can't vote in your poll... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Calamity Jean

    ...it excludes wind power for electricity.

    Float like a manhole cover, sting like a sash weight! Clean Coal Is A Clinker!

    by JeffW on Sun Apr 29, 2012 at 11:11:54 AM PDT

    •  You want a sail on your car instead of an engine? (0+ / 0-)

      Sounds somewhat impractical to me.

      Frankly I am not much taken with intermittent power generally.  It is expensive and unreliable despite the rumors.

      Of course we Swedes invented the solar airplane ("watch out for those ^%$& clowds, Ollie").

      Best,  Terry

      •  Electric Trolley Buses Can Use Them Indirectly. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Calamity Jean

        Hook the wind to the grid and use the grid to power the buses as we used to have in every major city, no need to screw around with tracks and no need to burn fuel carrying fuel either.

        Whatever the fuel source, trolley buses like electric rail releases no pollution within the area.

        Electric trolley cars I'd think would be a tough sell.

        We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

        by Gooserock on Sun Apr 29, 2012 at 12:06:50 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  BTW, JeffW, I have seen pictures of cars, (0+ / 0-)

      among other things, with a Finnish wind turbine.  It was some time ago and the Finnish company seemed to be interested as much in aesthetics as power.

      I have no idea how to find it again or how the power was used.

      Best,  Terry

      •  Whatever... (0+ / 0-)

        ...Google Eco Grove. More turbines need to go up here in Illinois before the remainder of the nukes get shut down, and more natural gas burners go on line. Intermittency can be dealt with by flywheel storage.

        Float like a manhole cover, sting like a sash weight! Clean Coal Is A Clinker!

        by JeffW on Sun Apr 29, 2012 at 12:05:29 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  "Intermittency can be dealt with by flywheel (0+ / 0-)

          storage."

          To date flywheel storage has been a disaster.

          Pumped storage is the best available according to my son, who has designed power plants.  But even it has limitations, primarily geographic.

          Compressed air is another scheme but not so hot in practice.

          Best,  Terry

          •  Disaster? Linky? n/t (0+ / 0-)

            Float like a manhole cover, sting like a sash weight! Clean Coal Is A Clinker!

            by JeffW on Sun Apr 29, 2012 at 05:46:01 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Your Every Wish Is My Command (0+ / 0-)

              Beacon Power’s Catastrophic Flywheel Failures

              I think the company has gone off to startup heaven along with many others with inventions that didn't pan out.

              Best,  Terry

              •  Ok, one company... (0+ / 0-)

                ...with a relatively new design, lacking some basic things like a steam vent when cooling water is applied, and that dooms the whole concept.

                Gotcha! The Nnadir approach...

                Float like a manhole cover, sting like a sash weight! Clean Coal Is A Clinker!

                by JeffW on Sun Apr 29, 2012 at 06:59:54 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Don't You Go Picking on My Favorite Nuke :-) (0+ / 0-)

                  Here is a quickie.

                  The POWERTHRU flywheel is currently being manufactured in 2012 for a government application and will be available to the general public beginning in 2013.
                  That's mighty fine and all.

                  But why not spend big bucks on proven baseload renewable power that is cheaper, far more plentiful, available everyplace on the planet and can even clean-up the environment instead of a maybe some day?

                  The answer is far too obvious.

                  Sure hope the latest patch on a busted tire works out.

                  Best,  Terry

                  •  I like him too, and think nukes... (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Calamity Jean

                    ...should have a role, and I'm not explicitly rejecting your premise, but my experience with wastewater treatment in my brief time out of engineering school as an environmental engineer makes me dubious. And awful lot of biosolids are still awfully wet after going through the many processes, and I'd think you would need to expend a considerable amount of energy to make fuel pellets. Using them in a steam automobile would also be problematic, as stokers can be cranky devices in mobile settings. My father-in-law is a retired steam engineer, and I doubt he ever dealt with any solid fuel in the Navy ships he served on, just the stationery plants he was responsible for in private industry, and I know none of his recent Steam Automobile Club of America lietrature (he is a past president) ever mention using a solid-fuel boiler in modern steam vehicles. Personally, I might have selected a poll choice that mentioned biofuel-produced electricity, but, well, you didn't include that, either.

                    So, I will bid you good night. And keep us informed of this any way. I could be wrong about the stoker...

                    Float like a manhole cover, sting like a sash weight! Clean Coal Is A Clinker!

                    by JeffW on Sun Apr 29, 2012 at 08:13:55 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Very Perceptive Comments (0+ / 0-)

                      Aside from nuclear power that I would love to see banished from the planet because of the terrible threat that cannot be controlled with any technology in the foreseeable future, your comments seem to me very much on point.  

                      Before it's asked, I have no idea how that evil genie can be put back in his  bottle.

                      But the problems of dealing with moisture and even pathogens have been solved with free controlled heat from micronizing of the biomass instead of drying with natural gas.

                      I will do another diary on a long stalled attempt to utilize giant alfalfa for feed and fuel pellets if I get the energy.

                      It would not be the first one ignored here. :-)

                      The Minnesota Valley Alfalfa Producers Co-Op once included hundreds of alfalfa farmers extending well beyond the state borders that have been reduced to a small group of survivors that have finally gotten a permit to produce the pellets though not the 135MW power plant once envisioned.

                      The head of the group told me years ago he often regretted starting the effort because of the incredible barriers thrown up by regulators.

                      It may not be an ideal solution because of the involvement of agriculture but it beats the hell out of using fossil fuels for power I think.

                      No need for stokers.

                      Today you can buy bags of pellets at various outlets for the new-fangled pellet stoves that are a far cry from the pot-bellied stoves and furnaces that are still around but in New England trucks with blowers deliver the pellets quite efficiently and gravity takes care of feeding the system quite adequately.

                      Thank you for the conversation.

                      Best,  Terry

                      •  You would have to mount the fuel "tank" (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        JeffW
                        ...gravity takes care of feeding the system quite adequately.
                        high up, almost directly over the boiler.  Plus you would likely need a liquid or gas pilot light.  

                        Renewable energy brings national global security.     

                        by Calamity Jean on Mon Apr 30, 2012 at 10:00:57 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Hi Calamity, (0+ / 0-)

                          There are endless varieties of feed that take only little imagination.  Plants and animals have many very imaginative methods of feeding themselves that can seem diabolical.

                          Summerhill Biomass was in early development last I heard.  One member of the family is, or was, a kossack.  He was particularly interested in a biomass internal combustion engine and ran proof of concept experiments at Syracuse University as a graduate student.

                          Summerhill's idea was to utilize a fine biomass "flour" as a proxy natural gas.

                          Compare that to alfalfa pellets or even torrefied briquettes that are more energy dense than coal. Sliding such weighty objects down a chute seems to me only problematical in preventing overload.

                          Plus you would likely need a liquid or gas pilot light.
                           

                          Flints - and worse - have lit dry kindling for eons. :-)

                          I actually have done some science in that regard.  In a scientific experiment as a preschooler, I nearly burned down a bunkhouse with a magnifying glass concentrating solar heat.

                          Where there is a will there is a way.  Even if there is not a will...

                          All just speculating, except the last.

                          Best,  Terry

                           

  •  A second account of burning mummies (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    terryhallinan

    This one is from the 1947 book Papermaking by Dard Hunter and illustrates that I. Augustus Stanwood used mummy swaddling to make paper during the Civil War.

    The most interesting phase of Stanwood's career, however, was his use of Egyptian mummies for making wrapping paper. The information here set down was given by Stanwood's son Daniel, a retired professor of international law. During the Civil War, according to Professor Stanwood, his father was pressed for raw material to keep his Main mill in operation and he had to use his ingenuity to overcome the difficulty. This he did by importing mummies from Egypt for the sole purpose of stripping the dried bodies of their cloth wrappings and using the material for making paper.
    . . .
    Professor Stanwood also related that the only competition his father encountered in purchasing the mummies was the Egyptian railroad, for during a ten-year period the locomotives of Egypt made use of no other fuel than that furnished by the well-wrapped, compact mummies, the supply of which was thought at the time to be almost unlimited.
  •  Isn't efficiency important? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Gooserock

    The most efficient steam engine, (turbine) is about 40%. The diesel common rail engine is almost 50% efficient. The much more common gasoline internal combustion engine is about 35% efficient.

    I support the use of more small, efficient and powerful diesel engines. Emissions from these modern engines are relatively clean, certainly cleaner than a lot of gasoline engines considering the extended mileage capabilities.

    Alternative fuels are great - I just don't think it's time to scrap the internal combustion engine in favor of external combustion engines.

    Your diary seems to assert that external combustion is better because that technology is older.

    It's not better, it's just older.

    I think, Therefore I am, ...A Democrat

    by Patriot4peace on Sun Apr 29, 2012 at 11:55:25 AM PDT

    •  How About Electric Motors As for Rail and (3+ / 0-)

      trolley buses? One savings is they don't need to lug any fuel around with them.

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Sun Apr 29, 2012 at 12:08:10 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  As long as (0+ / 0-)

        you don't lose control of the fuel used to create the power that is sent to the grid.

        If coal is used to boil the water, the trolley is running locally clean, but if you pull back the curtain you might not like the sulfur compounds coming from the power stacks next time it rains.

        I think, Therefore I am, ...A Democrat

        by Patriot4peace on Sun Apr 29, 2012 at 12:11:30 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  where did you get those numbers??? (0+ / 0-)

      the most commonly used number for Diesel efficiency is 27%... and the maximum theoretical efficiency for a diesel is around 40%. typical efficiencies for Good modern gas and diesel engines is around 20-25%. a well designed ORC or steam engine will operate around 32% efficiency, and will have have more complete combustion with a lot less particulates as it is continuous combustion.

      "I took a walk around the world, To ease my troubled mind. I left my body laying somewhere In the sands of time" Kryptonite 3 doors Down

      by farmerchuck on Sun Apr 29, 2012 at 01:15:43 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Wiki (0+ / 0-)

        Diesel Engines

        Engines using the Diesel cycle are usually more efficient, although the Diesel cycle itself is less efficient at equal compression ratios. Since diesel engines use much higher compression ratios (the heat of compression is used to ignite the slow-burning diesel fuel), that higher ratio more than compensates for the lower intrinsic cycle efficiency, and allows the diesel engine to be more efficient. The most efficient type, direct injection Diesels, are able to reach an efficiency of about 40% in the engine speed range of idle to about 1,800 rpm. Beyond this speed, efficiency begins to decline due to air pumping losses within the engine. Modern turbo-diesel engines are using electronically controlled, common-rail fuel injection, that increases the efficiency up to 50% with the help of geometrically variable turbo-charging system; this also increases the engines' torque at low engine speeds (1200-1800RPM).

        I think, Therefore I am, ...A Democrat

        by Patriot4peace on Sun Apr 29, 2012 at 04:22:27 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Crank has a lengthy dissertation on (0+ / 0-)

      efficiency of electric motors that begins at about 94% is meaningless when you consider what it takes to get a given quantity of fuel to the wheels.

      And that neglects all manner of considerations such as the toxic, and even rare, elements in batteries.

      If you use no fuel at all, how does that compare with efficient use of coal or petroleum or natural gas?

      All else being equal, would it matter if the coal burner were far more efficient, independent of harm to the environment?

      The attraction of wind and solar is that there is no fuel but there are very heavy costs independent of efficiency.

      Your diary seems to assert that external combustion is better because that technology is older.

      I regret leaving you with that impression because it is absolutely not true.

      The organic rankine cycle has evolved greatly over time and is doing so today.  Claims for efficiency in both turbine and piston forms are far in excess of your 40%.

      As for the truth of what they are, I am not prepared to argue.

      I argue that utilizing waste for power generation has benefits that are an added inducement rather than a detriment unless you are a Republican and need your waste for smearing your opponent. :-)

      Best,  Terry

      •  I got the impression (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        terryhallinan

        from these four sentences in succession:

        There is usually concentration on conversion to liquid fuels but why?

        Well because you see there is this internal combustion problem.

        And isn't that where the problem starts?

        External combustion steam power is far older than the internal combustion engine.

        It was just an impression... apparently taken out of context.

        Peace

        I think, Therefore I am, ...A Democrat

        by Patriot4peace on Sun Apr 29, 2012 at 04:26:17 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I saw no mention of carbon in the diary or (0+ / 0-)

    comments. One reason we need to shift away from fossil fuels is the carbon issue. It's the most important issue.
    How does burning pellets improve on the "carbon footprint" of internal combustion?

    I'd rather have a buntle afrota-me than a frottle a bunta-me.

    by David54 on Sun Apr 29, 2012 at 12:26:48 PM PDT

    •  Biomass is generally carbon neutral though (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Calamity Jean

      there are qualifications to that.

      When you mine or pump fossil fuels, you re-introduce sequestrated carbon to the surface.

      The nonsense that natural gas is clean is simply not true.  By some accounting it is even worse than coal or petroleum because some methane will inevitably be lost to the atmosphere.  Methane is a far more potent greenhouse gas than CO2.

      The Sierra Club played a large part in the destructive Manomet report that claimed wood was more polluting than coal.  It had to assume that magnificent old trees would be cut down for firewood and then estimated a time interval for reclaiming the carbon with new growth.   It took no account of long sequestered carbon being reintroduced to the surface.

      By Manomet's accounting standards explosive human population growth would be beneficial because people are mainly carbon. :-)

      Best, Terry

      •  People are mostly carbon, but they are different (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Calamity Jean

        from trees in that they expire carbon dioxide rather than absorb carbon dioxide.
        I think our over-riding and first goal should be to start getting serious about the global population explosion, with unfettered family planning and education as well as access to birth control for all women.
        This would impact not just the problem with carbon but also all the other issues, disease, famine, water shortage, etc.
        We should be accelerating all of our research and development in energy and transportation as well.

        I'd rather have a buntle afrota-me than a frottle a bunta-me.

        by David54 on Sun Apr 29, 2012 at 03:08:12 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The Best Birth Control Is Wealth (0+ / 0-)

          Poverty, disease, famine, war breed people.

          Yeah, I know it seems illogical but all you have to do is look at the areas where population has increased the most through birth rate.

          My sister has a particular interest in gorillas, as well as other primates - except men. :-)

          She was horrified that mountain gorillas were being slaughtered and eaten after the genocide in that country.

          I told her the solution was quite simple.

          Just send enough money to make all Rwandans rich. The humans would then die out and the gorillas would own the country. :-)

          Best,  Terry

  •  Actually ORC's are an ideal fit (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    terryhallinan

    for smaller, noncommercial utilization, and can raise system efficiencies 25-50% over the much toughted stirling cycle, due to the relative ease of using the "waste" heat from them. I am actually working this moment on a prototype plug in hybrid design which uses an ORC on the hybrid side.

    "I took a walk around the world, To ease my troubled mind. I left my body laying somewhere In the sands of time" Kryptonite 3 doors Down

    by farmerchuck on Sun Apr 29, 2012 at 12:46:57 PM PDT

  •  For perspective, you might look at this variation (0+ / 0-)

    on the Kalina cycle version of the Rankine cycle:

    Californian project could be first in utilizing Kalex Cycle technology

    News from California, report on a geothermal power project in Klamath Basin National Wildlife Refuge in California. The project might be the first to utilize a Kalina Cycle binary system for power generation.

    --

    This multi-million dollar facility on the Lower Klamath National Wildlife Refuge in California would provide low cost electricity saving up to $1 million annually in power costs. The refuge has been having a water shortages and power is essential to be pumping water to replenish wetlands. This has made operations very expensive and the hope is that utilizing geothermal power will provide a cost effective solution to the energy demand.

    Since this is a first of its kind, no one can say much about the actual operating costs of the Kalex cycle.  There is no information I could find that would distinguish the Kalex cycle from other manifestations of the Kalina cycle but the Kalina two fluid cycle has been around for awhile and there is no doubt that it is more efficient than the one fluid rankine cycle but there is added complexity to deal with.

    What I think would be interesting to compare is not diesel but one or more wind turbines.  That has been an ideal use of wind power long before generation of electricity came into vogue.

    Best,  Terry

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site