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The pound of flesh, which I demand of him,
Is dearly bought; 'tis mine and I will have it.

  - Shylock, Merchant of Venice

"The Debt Doesn't Matter, Reagan Proved That"
   - Dick Cheney

  It is ironic that debt seems to be one of the most misunderstood objects in a world saturated in debt.
  Yet understanding what it is and what we should do about it has never been more important.


 I wrote this essay about 18 months ago that explains how debt works in the real world.


   It always amazed and confused me how everyone in America is obsessed with their credit rating. It's almost as if people don't realize that credit equals debt. Debt is something that people have feared for thousands of years, because unlike Americans today, historically debt was always associated with another scary term - slavery.
 Debt bondage, indentured servitude, slavery, they all mean the same thing. Yet somehow the establishment has convinced us that the ability to "manage" our slavery is something to be proud of. They even have a rating system for it.

 If people really understood how compounding interest worked - something you were supposed to have learned in 7th grade Algebra - people would care a lot less about their credit ratings and would avoid debt altogether.
   Just drinking water, flushing the toiler, and having your garbage collected ultimately involves paying interest on debt. In fact, interest has been shown to make up half of the cost of everything we buy.

  The fact that it takes $6 of debt to create $1 of GDP growth is proof enough that we have serious debt problems in this country.

  In a recent essay I was told that the way to fix the economy is to borrow and spend like crazy, and that the markets were telling us to because interest rates are so low.

  There are several problems with this belief:
1) We are borrowing and spending like crazy already. The current federal deficit is around 8% of GDP. That's at a level that is historically unsustainable.

2) The markets also told us, back in 2004-2006, that we should all be taking out huge loans to buy huge houses. The markets lied to us. Why should we believe them now that treasury yields are at historic lows?

3) Borrowing and spending huge amounts of money is unlikely to fix anything. Consider the example of Japan.

 "I thought America had studied Japan's failures," said Hirofumi Gomi, a top official at the Japanese Financial Services Agency during the crisis. "Why is it making the same mistakes?"
 Japan entered 1990 with a huge asset bubble, both stocks and real estate. Both of them burst. Instead of reforming its banking industry, Japan went to a program of deficit spending to try and stimulate the economy. They assumed it was OK because the markets were giving them near-zero borrowing costs.
Does any of this sound familiar? It should.
    13 years later the Japanese economy was still in the duldrums, the real estate market was still contracting, the banking industry was still occupied by zombies. The difference is that their public debt was now sky-high. Japan can no longer afford to see its interest rates normalize.

 Historically huge debts, whether by countries, corporations, or people have almost always led to one thing - an economic crisis.

  Does that mean I am endorsing austerity? No. Not at all.
The people who want austerity are the same ones that got us into this mess - the banks. They want to protect the sanctity of their loans.
  Interestingly, the people who want us to borrow as much money as possible are also the banks. That's how they make money and are able to pay themselves obscene amounts of money.

  Therefore, if the debate concerning what to do to fix the economic crisis amounts to nothing more than borrowing/spending versus austerity, bankers win either way.

  So what do I suggest? I suggest fixing the problems rather than papering them over with mountains of borrowed dollars. Allow me to list the reforms we need (in no particular order).

  Let me start with Greece: They need to default and leave the Euro. The sooner the better. For those that think that would be suicide, consider the example of Argentina. They were supposedly committing suicide too.
   Look what happened when they defaulted in early 2002.


  The lesson here is that unpayable debts will not be paid, nor should they.
This applies to countries, corporations, and people.
  Don't kid yourself, companies use bankruptcy laws all the time (Bain Capital comes to mind). They shouldn't be the only ones.

   That brings me to my first reform: Reverse the 2005 Credit Card Company Protection Act (also known as the Bankruptcy Reform Act).
   The effects of this law were clear 1) the act helped credit card company profits at the expense of the consumer, and 2) caused more foreclosures.
  People need to be able to get out from under their debts. The fact that debtor prisons have returned should be all the evidence you need.

  Speaking of creditors, that brings me to my second reform: Enforce anti-trust laws again.
   Economists have known since the days of Adam Smith that monopolies are bad for economies. They strangle competition and gain too much influence on governments. Unfortunately our federal government has almost completely giving up on enforcing the anti-trust laws on the books.
   If the federal government somehow decided to start enforcing the law again then the Big Five Wall Street banks would have to be broken up.
   It would go far beyond that. Companies like Monsanto, for example, would also have to be broken up.
    In fact, so many major companies would need to be broken up over so much of the economy, that it would almost surely inspire a huge spurt of start-ups across the country.

  As for enforcing laws, that brings me to my third reform: Enforce the laws on the 1%, not just the 99%.
   Protecting criminals has a price, and that price is a loss of faith in the government, in justice, and in economic endevours. Bankers are currently getting away with every sort of law breaking.


  When people lose faith in the system they take fewer risks. The economy becomes less dynamic. There is lots of evidence that the failure to prosecute fraud in the financial system is actually the largest reason for the dragging economy.

  My fourth reform is an easy one: Declare victory in the war on terror, bring the troops back, and then cut the military budget by 3/4.
    First of all, our wars are immoral. Therefore I don't need an economic reason to demand this. Secondly, the wars have failed to achieve their objectives, and are instead causing enemies. Thirdly, the external wars are causing liberties in this country to be put in danger. Forthly, there is no military justification for spending as much on the military as the entire rest of the world combined.


   But since we are just talking about economics here, cutting the military would go a long ways towards balancing the budget, or at least freeing up money for more productive uses. Plus, the defense budget contains more waste and fraud than any other place in the federal government budget.


  After the banks get broken up the financial system will still need to be reformed and consumers will need to be protected from predatory lending.
   To do that, my fifth reform, would be to roll back all the financial deregulation of the last 32 years. Starting when President Carter signed the Depository Institutions Deregulation and Monetary Control Act in 1980 and up to Glass-Steagall being overturned in 1999.
      Because of this complete gutting of consumer protections from usury, payday loans, for example, can charge 391% interest rates. Almost without exception, the poorer you are, the higher the interest rates you pay.

  My sixth reform is more far-reaching. I think America should join the rest of the industrialized world and have a national economic plan.
   America once had one. It was called the American School of Economics. It existed from President Lincoln to President Nixon, and during that time America went from a backwater country to the most powerful and richest nation on Earth. What did this economic plan do?

 The key components of the American School directly confront, deny and refute the economic imperialism that the so-called "Free Trade" school championed then by England and imposed by means mostly foul upon Europe over the years.  It rejects free trade by imposing a system of duties, tariffs and other measures designed to defend the nation against economic threats by foreign predators. It uses government-directed spending projects meant to provide the infrastructure necessary for individuals to develop into the highly-educated and highly-trained people capable of being the ambitious and enterprising productive people we are famous for being.  It chartered a national bank, owned wholly by the government, that administered the lines of credit necessary to get all of this done and otherwise oversaw the monetary policy of the state- and thus remained utterly accountable to the people by way of Congress and the Presidency.
 Imagine a government that looked out for the economic interests of the people, instead of putting total faith in the markets. Imagine a government actually having a plan for the future instead of reacting after the fact.

  My seventh reform is rather obvious: a single-payer health care system.
We currently pay about twice as much on health care as every other industrialized nation on Earth. That's because we don't control costs.
   We also lose jobs because health care costs for employers is so high.

 Behind all this is a need for global financial reform, my eighth reform. The current currency system is unstable. We need a new Bretton-Woods.

 My ninth reform would be to triple capital gains taxes. Capital gains are unearned income, and thus subtract from the productive economy. Taxes should be lower on productive parts of the economy, and higher on unproductive parts. That would do more to encourage growth than any other tax proposal out there today.


  Other laws that need to be seriously reconsidered are corporate personhood, limited liability laws, and the structure of the Federal Reserve.

  This shouldn't be considered a complete list. However, these are reasonable reform suggestions that a) go far beyond the public debates, and b) attack to the root problems with the economy rather than try to borrow and spend our way past them.
   It might have made sense that we didn't have the time to reform our system during the crisis of 2008. But that excuse died several years ago. We no longer have a choice in the matter. We must reform our economy and we must start now.

Originally posted to gjohnsit on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 03:31 PM PDT.

Also republished by The Royal Manticoran Rangers.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Since I'm so frequently asked (12+ / 0-)

    "well, what do you suggest then?" at the end of my diaries, I might have to repost this one since solutions is pretty much all of it.

    Callate o despertaras la izquirda! - protest sign in Spain

    by gjohnsit on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 03:33:34 PM PDT

    •  My thought as I was reading "repost if necessary" (9+ / 0-)

      all ideas worth discussing and expanding.

      Without a deep examination, I'd add the idea of State Banks. iirc, the Populist Movement of the 1890s wanted a Federal Bank with the sole purpose of making low-interest loans for business and farmers (though I think we've consolidated to maybe 3 or 4 "farmers" since then <snark>)

      The idea being you keep the interest just low enough to compensate for failures to repay, keeping the accounts more or less steady. State or Fed, a people-responsive and relevant Banking system.

      Then there's confiscatory taxes on non-Real-World investments. Make the gamblers decide if they prefer to put their money in a mom-and-pop store at get maybe 2-3% back over years, or do derivatives and get maybe .01% return. (Somebody should know what those actual numbers would be.)

      The most potent of your ideas would be the military cutback. Either do that or tax the companies making out financially to pay for the foreign-based military, completely. Make the fossil fuel companies foot the bill for Afghanistan and Iraq, donate the damned fuel instead of us paying $500/gal to bring it through Russia and wherever; include the decades of health-care to be for maimed and damaged troops...

      These are all great ideas you have though. If I had more energy at the moment, I'd love to play with almost all of them.

      A suggestion: I keep thinking someday I'm going to do a multi-item diary. And before I publish it I'd start a comment thread on each item (nine items, nine comments) so people could focus on that as per their interest and information. Just a thought.

      Thanks, as always, for putting this together.

      The Internet is just the tail of the Corporate Media dog.

      by Jim P on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 03:59:10 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I'm curious... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ...well, what do you suggest then?" at the end of my diaries, I might have to repost this one since solutions is pretty much all of it.
      You appear to be making an attempt here to be somewhat comprehensive re: your list of suggested reforms.  Is there some reason why you don't advocate making the personal income tax more steeply progressive?  

      After all, it was the cuts in the top marginal income tax rates by Reagan/Bush that created the large scale of this indebtedness, more so than the deregulation of the banking industry.

      You see, cutting the top tax rates threw billions of extra disposable dollars at the economy's biggest savers: the Top 5%.  All of those extra dollars ended up in banks, whose business is to lend.

      That was the fuel that fed the two major asset bubbles (stock market and real estate) we've seen since Reagan took office.

      When you say you want to see governments and households borrow less, then you must necessarily also be saying that you would like to see total savings drop, for if that doesn't happen, total savings will accumulate, forcing the economy to contract.  (All jobs in the economy are dependent upon spending; saved money is money not spent)

      Our economy has long been addicted to debt, but more so since the tax rates of the rich were slashed.  The spending of those saved dollars by borrowers is what has sustain aggregate demand.  Take that away and the economy contracts.

      There is a way around this problem, however.  To offset the drop in total spending that would occur if overall borrowing levels were reduced, the government can obtain those [would-be saved] dollars through taxation and then spend them on economic investments.

      Steeply progressive income tax rates are the best way to collect 'excess savings' from those savers who can afford it most: the 1%.  If this is done, the high level of borrowing will drop because fewer dollars will be available for lending.

      Which is why I ask, is there some reason why you left out steeply-progressive income tax rates from your list of suggested reforms?

      •  It wasn't a complete list (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Odysseus, Pluto, semiot

        I was trying to focus on things that don't get talked about as much, and things that I think would have the greatest economic impact.

          I also forgot the estate tax. Like the capital gains tax, it would mostly effect the wealthy.

        Callate o despertaras la izquirda! - protest sign in Spain

        by gjohnsit on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 06:50:25 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Add a poll. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ozsea1, northsylvania, nannyboz

    You've got my vote.

    Eliminate the Bush tax cuts Eliminate Afghan and Iraq wars Do these things first before considering any cuts

    by kck on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 03:59:40 PM PDT

  •  and so, when the one-percenters (10+ / 0-)

    and their sycophants, shills, apologists, DLC enablers, courtesans and fluffers once again start spouting their squawking points on a supposed progressive blog, I will link them back to this diary, rather than waste time in trying to persuade or otherwise fix their mass delusions.

    (deep breath)

    BTW, Ravi Batra was on Hartmann today and made many of the same excellent points.

    Great diary. TRHd.

    Both parties are beholden to their corporate sponsors. The Democratic Party deigns to throw us a few bones from the table on which to gnaw and squabble over, but it's just kabuki.

    by ozsea1 on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 04:00:50 PM PDT

  •  Default and devaluation (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    blueoregon, Pluto, nannyboz, semiot

    I'm sorry if I'm confused, but how are people, who are retired and live off their savings (and social security), protected?

    Retirees already have seen their savings eroded with the 'weak dollar' policies of the current and past administrations, and low interest rates, and the rounds of quantitative easing.

    Could someone explain how further default and devaluation doesn't punish savers and reward risk takers?

    •  Lots of ways to attack that (8+ / 0-)

      First of all, I suggested default and devaluation for Greece, not the States. Greece has no other realistic choice.
        For the States I suggest more bankruptcy protection of individuals.

       As for retirees here, they are already under attack from the Federal Reserve holding interest rates down to negative real rates.
         This diary includes a suggestion for reforming the Fed and is AGAINST another round of devaluation.

      Callate o despertaras la izquirda! - protest sign in Spain

      by gjohnsit on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 04:09:35 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Thanks for the clarification (5+ / 0-)

        Again, I apologize for my confusion about the prescriptions for Greece versus the U.S. As you note, here in the states retirees and savers are being attacked by the Fed. It's almost as if they're deliberately trying to make the market casinos the only places to put 'savings' by making a saved dollar worth less and less each day.

        •  It Requires Near Infinite Pensions to Be Able (5+ / 0-)

          to live off interest or, as you say, putting it into the casino.

          We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

          by Gooserock on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 04:21:55 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  The term you are looking for (5+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          nannyboz, kck, Magnifico, semiot, jfromga

          Callate o despertaras la izquirda! - protest sign in Spain

          by gjohnsit on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 04:38:02 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Don't be too apologetic (5+ / 0-)
          I apologize for my confusion about the prescriptions for Greece versus the U.S.
          If Greece defaults, the American people will take the entire hit. The CDS's (default insurance) that will make the European banks and investors financially whole again -- policies written by JP Morgan and Merrill Lynch -- are now sitting in the FDIC, forced in there by Ben Bernanke.

          Don't buy into the nonsense that America will be hurt by Euro ills because of the (boo-hoo) reduction of trade. That's a bunch of BS. The real catastrophe is stated above.

          "Let the Dragon sleep, for when China awakes, she will shake the world." -- Napoleon Bonaparte

          by Pluto on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 05:06:42 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  So...tell Congress drop FDIC coverage for those (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Pluto, gjohnsit, semiot

            banks that 'invested' in the bad CDS vehicles or 'dumped' them into their subsidiaries.  We simply can't be allowing a shell game that Wall Street gets to play with tax payers' money where we always lose. They took the risk and misrepresented their CDS paper as 'securities'. Their capital should take the burn, not that of workers. All of it should be taken from them, plus paying penalties for global market manipulation and international fraud. This generation of Wall Street bankers needs to be made an global example of, stripped of all wealth and property, and stuck in prison and required to do forced labor, rebuilding all the infrastructure allowed to collapse under the last decades of austerity.

            When life gives you wingnuts, make wingnut butter!

            by antirove on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 08:26:33 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  They didn't "invest" in them. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              ...banks that 'invested' in the bad CDS vehicles
              They partnered in a CDS exchange in London and wrote (underwrote) the insurance themselves.

              The penalties you describe -- I feel that, too. But the banks and US corporations have a constitutional right to asset-strip America and the American people.

              Congress is not in a position to cross their Financial or Defense Overlords. They have demonstrated that reality consistently for more than 50 years. If they try, they are smothered in money.

              "Let the Dragon sleep, for when China awakes, she will shake the world." -- Napoleon Bonaparte

              by Pluto on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 09:36:00 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Do you have proof of this? (0+ / 0-)

            Because the Euro banks have been recapitalized on Greek debt.

            They are out.

            Greek debt is owned by the Euro taxpayer.

            And, when Greece restructured its private debt, almost no CDS were in play.

            There are two kinds of people in this world. The kind who divide the world into two kinds of people, and the kind who don't.

            by upstate NY on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 09:01:36 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  Excellent proposals g. I do remember saying (4+ / 0-)

    and discussing that we needed a new Bretton Woods back in 08/09.  
    One thing I've noticed is that the way things are going, in ten years we will be paying interest on the national debt (mandatory spending) of $1 trillion per year.  Seems to be a very large looming problem.

    "The Global War on Terror is a justification for U.S. Imperialism. It must be stopped."

    by BigAlinWashSt on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 04:26:40 PM PDT

  •  Good Points (4+ / 0-)

    I enjoyed your Diary and appreciate that it is prescriptive and not simply critical. It prompted me to look at some of your prior posts and found them to be equally enlightening and pertinent. I think what is most significant is not whether each and every observation you make is accurate or advisable (although I suspect that they are) but that the alternative seems so disastrously wrong. Keep up the good work.

  •  After Spain's (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    blueoregon, gjohnsit, nannyboz, semiot, jfromga

    banking fix lasted all of a half day, putting future generations of Spaniards on the hook for the resulting debt without actually fixing the original problem, it was pretty plain a reset button will be needed for a lot of the European economies. Thanks for pointing out a few.

    "There's a crack in everything; that's how the light gets in". Leonard Cohen

    by northsylvania on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 04:36:11 PM PDT

  •  From someone who took remedial math (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    gjohnsit, nannyboz, northsylvania

    her entire school career, this is a lot to study. Thanks for spelling it out.

    "Such is the irresistible nature of truth that all it asks, and all it wants, is the liberty of appearing." - Thomas Paine

    by blueoregon on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 04:41:08 PM PDT

  •  All of your US points are a reversal of fortune (5+ / 0-)

    Nicely done essay.

    I especially like that you begin with the most corrupt and depraved of them all -- the 2005 Bankruptcy Bill. (Was that the one that Joe Biden was paid to sponsor?)

    (As for your global prescriptives -- Uh. Stick to the US. Seriously.)

    Politically, these remedies are not possible, of course. I was reading about the collapse of the so-called Arab Spring in Egypt (via Gulf-based media), and a line jumped out at me:

    First, Scaf’s primary concern is to protect the armed forces themselves. It seeks to maintain their exemption from civilian control that is the hallmark of any real democracy and to preserve the lucrative business interests the military has controlled for decades.
    Notice any parallels?

    In any event, Recommended!

    "Let the Dragon sleep, for when China awakes, she will shake the world." -- Napoleon Bonaparte

    by Pluto on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 04:45:51 PM PDT

    •  Re: (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Pluto, northsylvania, semiot

      I can sort of see why you would have a problem with Greece defaulting, but why don't you agree with a new Bretton Woods?
         I think the primary reason that financial speculation is out of control is because of the lack of international monetary standards.
         I'm curious why you don't agree with it.

      Callate o despertaras la izquirda! - protest sign in Spain

      by gjohnsit on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 06:54:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  If you are talking about a new (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        gjohnsit trading currency -- the entire world is having that conversation right now. The US is not included in the discussion, however.

        Every day beings an array of new currency swap agreements between nations. Even Japan and China have been able to successfully dump the dollar in their trades.

        I do agree that a new standard is essential. I had rather hoped for a synthetic currency from the IMF, with a healthy amount of gold included -- as was the case when Bretton Woods was signed until the disaster of Nixon.

        Most of the world is carefully watching the monumental failure of the US sanctions against Iran in its hopeless quest to rally allies to its imperial cause. I believe this failure and its repercussions will trigger the flock of black swans that will be visited upon the US in 2012, resulting it is loss of reserve currency status.

        With that loss comes an impact to Americans that the people of no other nation with the same debt profile, will face. Not even close. It is for that reason that I find your international analysis and comparisons lacking.

        But again, your remedies for the US are perfection. And I am certain that in some parallel universe they will be successfully implemented. In this universe, however, the US no longer has a political system that allows for such things. We are well in to structural collapse.

        "Let the Dragon sleep, for when China awakes, she will shake the world." -- Napoleon Bonaparte

        by Pluto on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 09:21:41 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Why would anyone really have problems (0+ / 0-)

        with Greece defaulting?

        There are two kinds of people in this world. The kind who divide the world into two kinds of people, and the kind who don't.

        by upstate NY on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 08:58:30 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I hot-listed and think this is a no-nonsense (4+ / 0-)

    collection of solutions that are do-able and would go a long way towards fixing our economy and giving some equity back to the people.  Please send this diary to OBAMA.  He needs it.

    The longer I live, the clearer I perceive how unmatchable a compliment one pays when he says of a man "he has the courage to utter his convictions." Mark Twain

    by Persiflage on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 05:09:43 PM PDT

  •  The crazy thing is that most of this stuff (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    gjohnsit, Odysseus, Pluto

    would prevail if you put it to a vote. The problem seems to arise somewhere between the campaign rhetoric of the politicians and the actual activities of policymakers. It's always, "vote how you want, the result is the same".

  •  What do you think about MMT people who (0+ / 0-)

    say that debt doesn't matter? Interesting diary.

    •  I think they don't explain well. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Every article I have ever seen makes logical jumps that I do not follow.  They need to connect the dots much more before I think anything about them.

      -7.75 -4.67

      "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose."

      There are no Christians in foxholes.

      by Odysseus on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 08:08:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  oh f***sake (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Pluto, northsylvania, gjohnsit

    sent kmail to Community Spotlight. Why the fuck isn't this diary there??

    Republished to The Royal Manticoran Rangers.

    Both parties are beholden to their corporate sponsors. The Democratic Party deigns to throw us a few bones from the table on which to gnaw and squabble over, but it's just kabuki.

    by ozsea1 on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 08:42:09 PM PDT

  •  Make student loans dischargeable in BK. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Better, just declare a Jubilee on student loan debt.

    It's larger than credit card debt now and crippling our young people.

  •  Agree with most of your prescriptions, plus some (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    of the additional ones in the discussion about estate taxes & more progressive taxation.

    I'd suggest adding those as an update to the diary, plus add two more to fix:

    - the corrupt/incestuous nature of corporate boards in general and executive compensation in particular...the current system is essentially legalized theft from shareholders & is probably the main reason for the skyrocketing income inequality.

    - the corrupt aspects of the campaign finance system where politicians are being blatantly bought out by major donors...without this one, my guess is that your other prescriptions cannot possibly come to fruition.

  •  Great work here (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Of course, even economists ignore the reality so hard to blame average people.

    There are two kinds of people in this world. The kind who divide the world into two kinds of people, and the kind who don't.

    by upstate NY on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 09:00:30 AM PDT

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