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This is a personal reaction, not a well-reasoned essay, so turn away if that's not what you want to read.

This is a reaction to reading that Geekesque and fcvaguy both got banned today, after so many recent bannings of long-timers such as Marie.

For the last several months I find myself waking up most mornings and immediately grabbing some coffee, turning on the computer, and checking to see if I've been banned or disciplined at Daily Kos, even as I know I'm constantly walking on eggshells trying to avoid controversy, and even when I know for sure I was not engaged in any disputes on DKos.  Is that nuts or what?!

I do that even before hitting the bathroom, doing morning chores, or eating breakfast.

Is that healthy or productive behavior for a late-50s lawyer with huge responsibilities and serious health problems?

It's clear that I genuinely fear being excluded from this beloved online community, especially during a presidential election year.  Why do I fear this so much?

Please go below the fromage--

I'm an old-timer.  I started reading in 2002 when Markos was on Movable Type.  I joined up just a few months after the switch to Scoop in October 2003.  I've been reading here every day for about 10 years.

On Easter Sunday 2005 I was banned for contrarian statements in a single Terri Schiavo diary.  That was back when people had unlimited zeroes.  I had quit drinking for Lent, and was drinking beer that Easter Sunday, and I fought back too hard.  I can't dispute that I deserved to be suspended, although I think a ban was unfair.  In any event, I was sore about that.  After several failed attempts to seek reinstatement, I was finally reinstated in 2008 with help from a wonderful front-pager, who intervened for me with Markos.

Since then, I've had three Big Red Warnings when I've gotten overheated (if I remember correctly, two from Markos and one from Meteor Blades), but I have acknowledged them all with sincere respect, and have done my best to abide by what they said; I really have.

I guess I'm alarmed that Markos said in a post today about Geekesque's banning that "few users survive beyond three warnings."  Gulp.  So I guess I'm right on the brink.  Any inadvertent uprate of the wrong comment and OFF WITH MY HEAD.  Ack.

For a very long time, I'd had no hidden comments and was holding on to five mojo bars and TU status, but I recently got involved in some disputes over diaries by one user.  In one diary I had two comments hammered by 10 HR's each, much as I think that was wrong, and I dropped to four mojo bars.

On one hand I'm disgusted with myself to care at all about that.  On the other, I'm unhappy with the system.

Markos has said he is moving to a new system that does not include HRs and mojo.  I can't wait to see that day!

Oh I guess I'll stop there.  I'm too tired tonight from a hellacious work schedule, and I don't really have any deep thoughts.  I hope Markos will be gracious in reinstating any real old-timer who is sincere in promising to reform.

And I hope all of us will try to keep steady to the idea that civility is important, both as a matter of following the Golden Rule and being fair to our fellow humans, and also because that wins elections.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Can't answer the questions. (11+ / 0-)

    But I do know that I've been averaging about a comment a month for the past little while, and not many visits in between. I've been here since 2005, and I once spent a lot of time here.

    Lately, though, I seem to have more important things to do. Work, my golf swing, watching the grass grow, thinking about cookies, scratching my back....The list goes on and on.

    Ah, well. I think I feel an itch coming on. ;)

    "...even amnesia, if prolonged, can become as dreary as one's old life." - Walker Percy

    by turnover on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 07:46:19 PM PDT

  •  I find... (16+ / 0-)

    those looking for fights have a tendency to get what they seek.

    Also that any pretending to speak for the site ought to have something beyond Trusted Usership, speculation, and a desire for authority.

  •  If I feel myself start to get angry, I just take (16+ / 0-)

    a break... watch a movie, take a walk, garden or brush the cats.

    I'm getting way too old to yell at a computer.

    202-224-3121 to Congress in D.C. USE it! You can tell how big a person is by what it takes to discourage them. "We're not perfect, but they're nuts."--Barney Frank 01/02/2012

    by cany on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 07:58:36 PM PDT

    •  You don't yell at a computer? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Timaeus, koNko

      I do...well, actually, I yell at Bill Gates for configuring Windows which runs my computer.

      Bill Gates has a lot to answer for.

      Meanwhile, I wish I were wealthy enough to buy a Mac.

      To make the argument that the media has a left- or right-wing, or a liberal or a conservative bias, is like asking if the problem with Al-Qaeda is do they use too much oil in their hummus. Al Franken

      by Youffraita on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 01:23:18 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Don't be paranoid (9+ / 0-)

    ..and def pee, shower, brush your teeth, and have coffee, tea whatever before checking out Dkos for crying out loud!  ;)

    I really believe people know when they're getting close to "crossing the threashold".

  •  Kos explained the bannings in a separate diary (8+ / 0-)

    I have to agree with him.  While I respected and valued Geekesque and fcvaguy when actually contributing, they were engaging more and more in meta pie fights and arguing over "teams", etc. Frankly, it was unfortunate and immature behavior, and after 7 warnings, came the banning.

    I don't see that you do the same.  I value your input  - for example, I think you and I are among very few here that try to keep the vitriol against the Catholic Church down and keep it to legitimate discussion of its shortcomings.

    So, keep it civil, keep it to debate of the issues, and I think you're fine.

    Liberalism is trust of the people tempered by prudence. Conservatism is distrust of the people tempered by fear. ~William E. Gladstone, 1866

    by absdoggy on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 08:08:46 PM PDT

    •  I saw his explanation of the banning of (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      joedemocrat, Ahianne

      Geekesque, but I didn't see anything comparable for fcvaguy.  If there is such a thing, I'd be happy if you would direct me there.  Thanks.

    •  got links? i can't find it... n/t (0+ / 0-)

      "Minus two votes for the Democrat" equals "plus one vote for the Republican." Arithmetic doesn't care about your feelings.

      by G2geek on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 09:21:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  no link needed, i found it. thanks anyway:-) nt (0+ / 0-)

      "Minus two votes for the Democrat" equals "plus one vote for the Republican." Arithmetic doesn't care about your feelings.

      by G2geek on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 09:29:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The thing is (5+ / 0-)

      Geekesque and fcvaguy continually got into it with the same people, none of whom were banned.  

      It would be one thing if Markos just decided to bring the banhammer down on all participants but he didn't and the same people who were involved in this were also the same people who escaped the purge last fall and will probably be the same people who will be involved the next time.

      •  i don't have a dog in any of these fights (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        allenjo

        but couldn't resist looking at the thread from a few days ago which led to the banning. Its pretty clear that was a one-sided fight being picked by the banned Geekesque and its easy to see why if kos felt it was characteristic of prior incidents with the member he is totally justified in the ban.  And its not like a school yard fight where you just ban everyone... i think he made a fair judgement about it.  The person Geek was mixing up with repeatedly asked to have the whole mess presented to kos for adjudication which only was met with further accusations and rants. It looked like a no brainer to me too.

        •  6 previous warnings...... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Robobagpiper

          geekesque should have been banned after the 2nd warning, don't you think, as probably any of the rest of us would have been?

          Its pretty clear that was a one-sided fight being picked by the banned Geekesque and its easy to see why if kos felt it was characteristic of prior incidents with the member he is totally justified in the ban.

          Daniel Ellsberg, “It was always a bad year to get out of Vietnam.”

          by allenjo on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 02:36:36 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  I agree (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mahakali overdrive, BitterEnvy

        But there is no use fight it/them. Better to just drift away and not care.

        Note to self, stop before I emulate the habits described in this diary.

        by Rustbelt Dem on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 11:31:02 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I'm sorry to hear about both bannings, strange (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Timaeus, mconvente, Youffraita, Brit

    happenings abound...

    "It is horrifying that we have to fight our own government to save the environment." *Ansel Adams* ."Even if you are on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there."*Will Rogers*

    by Statusquomustgo on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 08:10:18 PM PDT

  •  this is the comment thread in which (9+ / 0-)

    Life is short. Tell someone you love that you love them. Don't miss the chances while you have them.

    by Melanie in IA on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 08:13:25 PM PDT

  •  When you feel yourself getting sucked into a fight (13+ / 0-)

    Walk away.

    Most of the fights are pointless.

    What ever happened to the power of persuasion?

    I admit, I have my sore spots, but I try not to let them make me lose control. So far, so good. I've received a few red warnings over the years but I don't think I'm going to get banned any time soon.

    But, you know, Kos has an itchy trigger finger.

    look for my eSci diary series Thursday evening.

    by FishOutofWater on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 08:17:11 PM PDT

  •  There is a reason no one shadow boxes for long.... (0+ / 0-)
  •  Storms have been brewing (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Timaeus, TomP, licorice114, BitterEnvy

    I have missed most of them.

    I have noticed that people are tending to take philosophical disagreements much more personally these days. Lots of flame wars over things that maybe people should be discussing looking for new insights and where their opinions might actually intersect.

    Thing is I think we all have something to offer from our different viewpoints. Being open to looking at things from another's perspective can really be enlightening. I know I have learned a lot from it.

    What is that old line "These are the days that try mens souls." Maybe that fits with the upcoming elections and the real clear picture each of us get of what our lives would be like with Mitt Romney as president. Talk about creating stress...... We al seem to be under it these days.

    Everytime there are banning's I think we all lose because that is one unique voice and perspective that is no longer able to contribute to our knowledge base.

    So keep trying to be as Zen as possible Timaeus I for one appreciate what you have to say here.

    It is the heart that makes a man rich. He is rich according to what he is not what he has -Henry Ward Beecher

    by PSWaterspirit on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 08:40:37 PM PDT

    •  Yes! n/t (4+ / 0-)


      The important and difficult job is never to find the right answers, it is to find the right question. For there are few things as useless–if not dangerous–as the right answer to the wrong question. -- P. Drucker

      by The Angry Architect on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 09:41:14 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I went through a period of reading all of (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        PSWaterspirit, joedemocrat

        Drucker's trenchant and visionary works.

        If you know much about his thinking, as suggested by your sigline, you should write some diaries on him.

        •  I agree with your diary, T&R (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Timaeus

          During the purge, I would wake up every morning and make sure I wasn't NR. I understand that anxiety.

          I don't like the system either. I've seen good people banned including the ones you mention. I know threads get heated, and that's when good people make mistakes.

          I wish he would reinstate anyone who asks in good faith too.

          There has to be another way to keep things civil besides going in and banning good people. There has to be a way for the community to moderate itself. Maybe we need to have some  brainstorming sessions, come up with some ideas, & vote on them as a community?  

          During the purge, Kos commented on a new system but I was under the impression that was put on hold. I could be wrong.

          I also sometimes think about really reducing my participation

          Also, maybe people need to reach out more and try and get to know that person they think they don't like. They may learn he/she is really nice. And be more forgiving.

          As a member of Courtesy Kos, I am dedicated to civility and respect for all kossacks, regardless of their opinions, affiliations, or cliques.

          by joedemocrat on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 10:41:32 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I think your points are excellent (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Timaeus

            A friend of mine got ban-hammered here almost a year ago.  She uprated a comment...she uprated a comment without knowing the backstory.

            This seems unfair, for someone whose entire history here was inocuous.

            But Kos had previously warned that he was going to ban everyone regardless...and so he did.

            Me?  I duck and cover.  And stay outta the way.  It's kinda how I hang onto my shit job, too.

            Work hard; be inocuous; don't let them know you've got volition (in the case of work, a functioning brain: they don't like that b/c you might be smarter than they are.)

            To make the argument that the media has a left- or right-wing, or a liberal or a conservative bias, is like asking if the problem with Al-Qaeda is do they use too much oil in their hummus. Al Franken

            by Youffraita on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 01:32:37 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  FWIW (21+ / 0-)

    I too was shocked by the recent bannings but I can't say I know what led to them. As someone who was booted myself,  it can indeed seem unfair but I think the lines have been drawn pretty brightly.

    I do believe the main rule is don't be an instigator. At least for me I've found that I stay on the right side of the line when I follow that rule.

    I've had sharp exchanges since my return but never as an instigator.

    I hope the banned ones can seek reinstatement and I certainly hope it does not become an issue for you.

  •  I like to come here but it is not a safe place. (6+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Timaeus, kat68, Youffraita, NYFM, BitterEnvy, triv33

    I do not hiderate people. I am not going to participate in the mojo/hiderating system in any way. It is cruel. It is childish. It does not work.

    I fully expect to be thrown off here one day, and I have prepared myself by making sure I have other communities to participate in.

    I will be sad for awhile, but I do not come here as often as I used to, so I will recover fairly quickly. This used to be a kinder and more exciting place to be. However, a number of people I enjoyed and admired have left because they have been thrown off or don't like it here anymore.  

    I used to be Snow White. And then I drifted. - Mae West

    by CherryTheTart on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 08:49:03 PM PDT

    •  Actually, I thing throwing pastry is far (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Youffraita, CherryTheTart, Timaeus

      more dangerous than not doing so. It is just a feeling, but it seems to me that a lot of those who get in trouble are those who are quick with the HRs and the accusations of rule breaking by others, usually based on seemingly obvious misinterpretations of said rules.

      That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

      by enhydra lutris on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 09:33:14 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I still hr people and it seems lately-- (5+ / 0-)

        Maybe it's all the bots BruinKid reports about every night--but there seems to be more ugliness that deserves hydrating. Or maybe it's just that I've been spending more time here during the day.

        But i usually read a comment several times, try to figure out what else they could mean, if it's poor writing skills or really bad snark perhaps. If so, I'll call the comment tasteless and explain to them that it came very close to being HR'd.

        But some things really need to be hidden. I've hr'd comments by people i like, who clearly were having a bad day. But I try to say that to them in my comment too: you seem to be having a bad day. This will probably get hidden. Let's move on. You're capable of far better than this.

        If we stop treating donuts as bullets and start treating them simply as tools for moderation, they wouldn't seem so dangerous to use. But right now, they're like RPGs, and too many fire them to destroy, not to create a site that's worth having.

        © grover


        So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

        by grover on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 12:36:28 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You have to commit the sin of the century (4+ / 0-)

          ... to earn a hiderate from me.  I will not participate in a system that abuses people.

          Nothing needs to be hidden. We cannot know the truth if we do not hear all voices, however vituperative that voice or voices may be. Just saying.

          A system of community moderation that works is possible. I have encountered it in other Net places.  This ain't it. Bullies are having a lot of fun here.

          I used to be Snow White. And then I drifted. - Mae West

          by CherryTheTart on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 02:21:43 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  We arent as far apart as you might think. (4+ / 0-)

            I don't hr the truth. In fact, I do the opposite: the really ugly lies, bigotry, racism, etc. are what get hit by me. Ideas? Nope. And when someone asks for an hr (say, in his own diary where he can't toss one), I specifically say no, that HRing for dissent is not allowed.

            When bullies use abusive social constructs specifically to bully others, it thwarts the whole reason this site exists.

            So I believe these comments should be judiciously reviewed and the most egregious, especially those that contain personal attacks, should be hidden.

            © grover


            So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

            by grover on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 02:49:50 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  I think your feeling is correct. eom (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        enhydra lutris

        I used to be Snow White. And then I drifted. - Mae West

        by CherryTheTart on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 02:15:31 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  That makes sense... (0+ / 0-)

      Especially the part about other communities. I recently achieved NR status, so I can't "hiderate". (though I like your term!)...

      Takes some of the interest out of it, takes some of the pressure off, too.

      But, I empathize with the sentiment of this Diarist. I mean, really, what is community, and what does it mean to be excommunicated or downgraded from one.

      But even being banned is not the end of the world, a new account handle, three months, and a couple of MOJO Fridays, and like the Phoenix, one can rise from the ashes a Trusted User, anew.

      Whatever, it is what it is JAFWS!


      The important and difficult job is never to find the right answers, it is to find the right question. For there are few things as useless–if not dangerous–as the right answer to the wrong question. -- P. Drucker

      by The Angry Architect on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 09:49:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  this is also bannable: (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        grover
        a new account handle, three months, and a couple of MOJO Fridays, and like the Phoenix, one can rise from the ashes a Trusted User, anew.

        Life is short. Tell someone you love that you love them. Don't miss the chances while you have them.

        by Melanie in IA on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 08:18:24 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  By that do you mean: (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Melanie in IA, CherryTheTart

          The practice of doing so, or simply referring to the practice?

          FWIW, I'm talking about reincarnation not sock-puppetry.

          Either way, I would appreciate a citation to the appropriate section of the civil code of conduct FAQ, Diary, Comment or whatever.

          Seems I may not be long for this site.

          Thanks (sincerely).


          The important and difficult job is never to find the right answers, it is to find the right question. For there are few things as useless–if not dangerous–as the right answer to the wrong question. -- P. Drucker

          by The Angry Architect on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 03:15:21 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  No, not referring to the practice. (0+ / 0-)

            I guess I don't know what you mean about there being a difference between "reincarnation" and sock-puppetry. Sock-puppetry IS bannable, in my understanding. And no I don't have code to cite, tho I am confident there is code on it.

            Sorry I can't answer your question more completely.

            Life is short. Tell someone you love that you love them. Don't miss the chances while you have them.

            by Melanie in IA on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 05:02:24 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  For the record, I stand corrected: (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Melanie in IA, LeftOfYou

          M in IA you are correct.

          The following posted for the possible benefit of future readers of this Diary:

          Kos Puppet Policy (From DailyKos FAQ)

          If you are banned as a user for any reason, the only court of appeal is Markos himself. Banned users posting using an account not authorized by Markos are subject to repeated, continued banning. It is the user, not the account, that is being penalized.
          (Emphasis added.)


          I kinda screwed up with a careless uprate so (for now?) I'm a No Rate leper. So when I give a comment "+110% n/t", please consider that a recommend. (That's my workaround fix to participating in this community!)

          by The Angry Architect on Sat Jun 16, 2012 at 09:38:53 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Curious about other on-line communities... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      CherryTheTart

      that you find similarly useful and interesting. Your strategy of diversification makes sense.

      This place is useful, interesting, etc., but having too much at stake may cloud my judgement. Other outlets would be helpful.

      Thanks for any suggestions...


      The important and difficult job is never to find the right answers, it is to find the right question. For there are few things as useless–if not dangerous–as the right answer to the wrong question. -- P. Drucker

      by The Angry Architect on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 03:22:17 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  There are many blogs that have a comment section. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        BitterEnvy

        Most major newspapers run a comment section.
        AOL message boards used to be great, but no more. If you are not an elitist, Topix is a good spot. If you are gay or interested in gay issues, try JoeMyGod.

        Really it depends on what you want out of a message board. I had a lot at stake, I thought, when I first came here. Certainly the level of conversation here cannot be beat. I had to make myself detach for my own good because a lot of bullshit goes on here.

        I will give you an example. An Italian American came here and wrote a pretty good maiden diary. An AH here came on the diary and criticized him and threatened to throw him off for using Italian slang.

        I pointed out that here in Philly all of us Italians call a certain kind of old Italian man a "Gumba," and that chastising the diarist was not in the sites best interest. And I am an Italian American so I would know.

        Did not matter. And I got threatened with expulsion. Progressives have their own prejudices that no amount of protesting can do away with. And they can be as vicious and rigid as any Rightwing Authoritarian if you threaten a sacred cow.

        So explore. It is not good to let any group become too important to you especially for me because I am crazy and I do not do well in groups.

        I used to be Snow White. And then I drifted. - Mae West

        by CherryTheTart on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 03:58:02 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Thanks for the detailed reply... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          CherryTheTart

          I have a similar appreciation for this place, as well as some similar concerns. I have benefited greatly from this place, but have been frustrated recently, too. Yes, the progressives have their thought police as well as the conservatives!

          I'm a bit worried that I might destruct my profile here if I don't chillax a little. I will look into some of the other "places" you mention. BTW, You may not do well in groups - there are times when I struggle with the same problem - but the fact that you refer to yourself as crazy probably means you're not! (In my experience, the people who are craziest, are the ones who consider themselves perfectly sane!)

          Any way, thanks again, peace, good health and luck!

  •  The HR stuff is... not so great. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Timaeus, SoCalHobbit, BitterEnvy

    I'd actually like, if any community ratings are necessary, categories as to the quality of a comment, rather than of approval or disapproval:

    Useful
    Responsive to Essay
    Distracts from Sense
    Witty
    Needs Work
    Just Ugly
    Good Links
    Good Point

    Not necessarily these. Just something to help people pick up what they'll find worth picking up, shining on what's a waste


    The Internet is just the tail of the Corporate Media dog.

    by Jim P on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 08:51:13 PM PDT

  •  The Dailykos B&B. (4+ / 0-)

    Every morning a group of semi-regulars show up at the long, pastry and coffee laden dining table, on which tiny icing splattered placards encourage political discussion. The political chatter commences and is broken by loud voices at one end which degenerates into an éclair barrage followed by a jelly doughnut counterstrike. The chatter turns meta for a time, someone gets recommended to the head of the table, and cat pictures are circulated to ease the tension. The guests retire to dream of brilliant comments and flying pastry.

    Free University and Health Care for all, now. -8.88, -7.13

    by SoCalHobbit on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 08:52:09 PM PDT

    •  Nice... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SoCalHobbit

      except that pooties make me sneeze. They are key to building more and better Democrats, though, clearly.

      Pass me a bearclaw and a cup of joe.

      Thanks!


      The important and difficult job is never to find the right answers, it is to find the right question. For there are few things as useless–if not dangerous–as the right answer to the wrong question. -- P. Drucker

      by The Angry Architect on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 09:52:52 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  It Depends On What Your Focus and Style Are. (6+ / 0-)

    There are people who are plenty safe here who attack capitalism, Jesus, the Bill of Rights, European presence in North America, the Constitutional system of government, the Democratic Party, tariffs and progressive taxation --so the owner is clearly allowing room for a huge range of political ideas and theories. Especially when compared against his stated mission of electing more and better Democrats.

    I think when your behavior starts messing with people here, that's when an owner whose livelihood and mission both depend on attracting a lot of people, is most likely to step in.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 09:12:36 PM PDT

  •  Bullshit! (2+ / 1-)
    Recommended by:
    LaEscapee, triv33
    Hidden by:
    Brit

    Those guys deserved censure.  They asked for it and they got it.  The collective selective readings of their contributions is at once funny and sad.

  •  I think it's a comparatively safe (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    shesaid, Youffraita, Ahianne, Timaeus

    space.  It's the first blogging community I've belonged to that does police its membership.  

    I've never had spam.  

    I've only had one personal threat made against me here, and only 2 of my diaries hijacked by really rude people. I was kind of surprised to see that not one of the rude people hijacking the second diary garned a single HR.

    The one diary I wrote that I expected to generate a lot of heat and anger didn't. The conversation there was considerate and respectful.  Most of the commenters in my diaries have been nice.

    And when I comment in other diaries, the conversation generally stays nice and respectful.

    I am not sure who this "team hdf" or whatever is, but they produce some truly mean-spirited comments. I hope they never, ever visit any of my diaries again.

    •  What you said. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Noddy, Ahianne, Timaeus

      Maybe it's b/c I hang mostly in community diaries and those from the economics people, but...I don't see HUGE amounts of vitriol here.

      (Of course, I kinda try to avoid vitriol.)

      Then again...Kos really does have to bring out the ban-hammer sometimes b/c although I try to avoid 'em, I HAVE seen some of those comment threads.

      And they ain't pretty.  And I have the mojo to see the hidden stuff...and then I have to bleach my eyeballs.

      Also not pretty.

      To make the argument that the media has a left- or right-wing, or a liberal or a conservative bias, is like asking if the problem with Al-Qaeda is do they use too much oil in their hummus. Al Franken

      by Youffraita on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 01:47:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Good points. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Youffraita

        I've decided not to participate in groups, and I try to stay away from contentious diaries, especially pie-war flamefests.

        •  Oh, yeah, I always avoid (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Timaeus

          pie-war flamefests.  Always.

          By group diaries I mean mine (Theatricals: Monday nights at 8 p.m. Eastern) and the book people (Readers and Book Lovers, every night, different hosts) and the Pootie people.

          There are tons of others, but if you stick to books and plays and pootie/woozles, you're pretty safe.

          To make the argument that the media has a left- or right-wing, or a liberal or a conservative bias, is like asking if the problem with Al-Qaeda is do they use too much oil in their hummus. Al Franken

          by Youffraita on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 12:49:01 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  in the interest of addressing the blanket Team DFH (10+ / 0-)

      statement, i think you may be being too broad in your condemnation of the group.

      here is the link to Team DFH

      and here are the members:

      Meteor Blades
      jbou
      claude
      BOHICA
      slinkerwink
      srkp23
      Agathena
      stevej
      Larry Bailey
      Eddie C
      k9disc
      Dave925
      side pocket
      joanneleon
      m16eib
      frandor55
      Burned
      ajewella
      hairylarry
      rserven
      vigilant meerkat
      ActivistGuy
      carolita
      triv33
      joe shikspack
      Zwoof
      boatsie
      dirtfarmer
      Cassiodorus
      shaharazade
      One Pissed Off Liberal
      Ken in MN
      FishOutofWater
      Chacounne
      poligirl
      geomoo
      temptxan
      LaEscapee
      aigeanta
      wyldraven
      priceman
      Ellinorianne
      In her own Voice
      revelwoodie
      ZhenRen
      Celtic Merlin
      Pris from LA
      divineorder
      angel d
      rebel ga
      ratmach
      gulfgal98
      NY brit expat
      Lady Libertine
      Puddytat
      DerAmi
      Nada Lemming
      Colorado is the Shiznit
      Situational Lefty
      PhilJD
      DawnN
      Orman West
      Reverend Billy
      Ginger1
      pot
      Earth Bear
      EdMass
      you don't want any of these people to ever visit your diaries again? there are some pretty good people in that list.

      A) "The administration should be worried about the level of despair here." ~Markos Moulitsas at NN12 B) "Stoking the base’s enthusiasm is part of a campaign’s job, whether or not it thinks it should have to do it." ~Michelle Goldberg

      by poligirl on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 07:21:49 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Deutsch-Französische Hochschule? (0+ / 0-)

        What about my Daughter's future?

        by koNko on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 09:17:40 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Hmmm - the people (0+ / 0-)

        who claimed to be "team dfh" in my diary comments are obviously not abiding by the stated purpose of the group they claimed membership in:

        It will be dedicated to the spread of peace and love, and of being the change we seek.
        I had only the mean-spirited comments littering my diary comments to judge them by and was so dismayed by their behavior I deliberately chose not to check them out - to the point that I didn't even get the group name right.  I assumed they were just some troll gang that descends on diaries to mess them up in very ugly ways.

        I don't write diaries to provoke anger or name-calling, and most of them are rather dull, anyway, so having that sort of unproductive inflammatory commentary show up was surprising. They accomplished nothing but bad feelings.

        I am sorry that group "Team DFH" got tarred by those unpleasant people, but they were tossing the name "team dfh" around rather freely so I assume they wanted to be identified with the group and that's exactly what I did. Being a member of a group with such lofty goals does not exempt them from common standards of decency and manners. I would expect the opposite, in fact, and that's not what they did in my comments.  I was so mortified by their behavior I felt compelled to apologize to the people who read my diary for having to see that.

        So yes, I think I am going to stand by my desire to not see that kind of ugliness erupt in my diary comments any more. I don't seek that and I don't want it.

        •  i can't seem to find anywhere where anyone from (7+ / 0-)

          Team DFH was being anything close to mean spirited in any diaries while tagging themselves as members of Team DFH. I went back a year and a half in the comments - since before the creation of the group in the first place.

          actually, the only times Team DFH seems to even get mentioned in comments is when we are either letting someone know of a republish, talking amongst ourselves in our diaries, occasionally defending the group as a whole after it's been maligned, or when others try to use Team DFH as a derogatory brand on a person. ironically, and especially in the past couple months, the latter use is the most used incidence of Team DFH being used in a comment.

          what i think happened with you is perhaps a couple people may have come into a diary of yours and maybe were dickish in your opinion, and someone else - not a Team DFHer - told you that those people were Team DFHers, therefore giving you a very bad impression of the group as a whole.

          not saying that's what happened, but it seems more plausible since i can't find the instances you are talking about anywhere on the blog.

          A) "The administration should be worried about the level of despair here." ~Markos Moulitsas at NN12 B) "Stoking the base’s enthusiasm is part of a campaign’s job, whether or not it thinks it should have to do it." ~Michelle Goldberg

          by poligirl on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 12:18:16 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Links please? (6+ / 0-)

          Because I see a lot of suggestive innuendo concerning "some people" at "sometime" doing "some things" but zero, ya know, FACTS.

          I'd also be interested in knowing whom they were allegedly having it out with?

          'Cause it usually takes two to tango.

          ePluribus Media
          Collaboration is contagious!

          by m16eib on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 01:32:32 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Um....Noddy? (6+ / 0-)

          you say...
          "I am not sure who this "team hdf" or whatever is, but they produce some truly mean-spirited comments. I hope they never, ever visit any of my diaries again."

          and then.....
          "I had only the mean-spirited comments littering my diary comments to judge them by and was so dismayed by their behavior I deliberately chose not to check them out - to the point that I didn't even get the group name right. I assumed they were just some troll gang that descends on diaries to mess them up in very ugly ways."

          So, let me see if I have this right. You're not sure who Team DFH is, you hope that this seemingly nebulous idea you have of who "they" are, as a group-- never visit any of your diaries again. you openly admit you deliberately just didn't bother to check who it is that you have no problem smearing as a "troll gang" who descend on diaries to mess them up in ugly ways. Huh...

          Yes, Team DFH is still getting tarred and perhaps some of those descriptors you used there made you seem an unpleasant person to me, but I believe I would just let you know that and leave it at that. I don't think I'd be talking smack about you sometime in the future and smearing any community that you might happen to be associated with and bragging how I'd never even bothered to check them out. Why, that might be unfair to the members of said groups and even be, dare I say it? Mean spirited on my part.

          I shave my legs with Occam's razor~

          by triv33 on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 01:48:33 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Noddy, I am amazed at your comments, truly. (7+ / 0-)

          I enjoy reading and commenting in the DFH diaries.

          why are you attacking that group?

          Who are the individuals you refer to when you say you feel they are "exempt from common standards of decency and manners."

          You are making nasty accusation here and I think you need
          to apologize to "Team DFH".

          I have never found any unpleasant people in the group - quite the opposite, in fact.  I am offended by your remarks.

          I am sorry that group "Team DFH" got tarred by those unpleasant people, but they were tossing the name "team dfh" around rather freely so I assume they wanted to be identified with the group and that's exactly what I did.

          Being a member of a group with such lofty goals does not exempt them from common standards of decency and manners. I would expect the opposite, in fact, and that's not what they did in my comments.  I was so mortified by their behavior I felt compelled to apologize to the people who read my diary for having to see that.

          I am in the habit of reading and reccing your diaries, but I think from now on I will just avoid them.

          Daniel Ellsberg, “It was always a bad year to get out of Vietnam.”

          by allenjo on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 02:04:47 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  I'm surprised I didn't get any warnings yet. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    angry marmot, Timaeus

    I get angry during arguments unfortunately and sometimes write unpleasant stuff. It seems like if you avoid meta and obvious CTs, you're at least unlikely to get banned. NRs seem to be more unpredictable.

  •  I have a simple rule (11+ / 0-)

    I say what I hae to say in a single comment, and unless someone asks a question seeking further clarification or more details, or if there is an obvious misunderstanding,l I leave it there.  That way I never get engaged in the endlessly, increasingly vitriolic back-and-forth that not only gets people banned, but is disruptive to the flow of actual discourse for everybody on the site. I've had my say, I let others have theirs, and that's that.  I have no need to "win" an argument by filibustering the other(s) who have differing or opposing points of view.  I don't expect anything I say would change their minds.  I leave it up to the third party reader, the lurker, to determine whose points are most cogent.    I'm confident I have a pretty good percentage on that ground, that going on ad nauseum would probably reduce.

    The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike from sleeping under bridges. ~ Anatole France

    by ActivistGuy on Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 10:25:30 PM PDT

    •  I like the give and take of a discussion so (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Timaeus

      I do tend to respond to responses to my comments. But my one simple rule is to remember that the other person is just that - another person. And I don't say anything on the computer that I would not say to the other person face to face.  I try not to insult people in person and I try not to do so on the computer.

      So when disagreeing with someone, I try to stick with facts and opinions expressed respectfully. I also try to remember that one cannot get the nuances from a written comment that one would get face to face - tone of voice, etc. So unless it is very obvious that the other person is being rude, I try to interpret comments in an open fashion. Not sure if I am being clear, but I try to not feel insulted unless it is overt and then try to turn the insult into an avenue for discussion.

      If I find myself getting too angry, I walk away for a while. At least that is what I try to do and most of the time, I think I am successful.

      You can't scare me, I'm sticking to the Union - Woody Guthrie

      by sewaneepat on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 07:09:59 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I've always greatly appreciated your (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Youffraita, Timaeus, gooderservice

    comments here Timaeus, and I respect that you step up to confront bullshit and lies from whichever direction it might come, and I imagine that could get you in some hot water at times. I hope you don't get banned. I'll say that I also have a relatively high tolerance for what I consider bannable and not, and although I tangled myself with a number of banned diarists over the years, I generally opposed them being banned. I've written admin asking for someone to be banned.

    I must say, however, that based on my own experiences, I fully support Geekesque getting banned. Although my views on a lot of topics are pretty contrarian within the context of Daily Kos, I manage to get on fairly well with nearly everyone here. Geekesque, however, I found to be insufferably confrontational, "dickish", petty, and vindictive, and I'm fairly certain that Daily Kos will be a better place without him. I hope his ban sticks. If fcva guy got caught up in the process for teaming up with Geekesque, I don't have much sympathy for him either.

    •  This diary is mainly a navel-gazing exercise (3+ / 0-)

      regarding my own neuroses concerning this site, not an opposition to any specific bannings.

      For what it's worth, some of my worst fights over the years have been with Geekesque, but that hasn't happened in a long time.  Geekesque has almost 70,000 comments, which is pretty incredible.

      As for fcvaguy, we've had some misunderstandings, but I like him a lot.

      It would be my hope that both get reinstated eventually.

    •  I too found him all too often to be (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Pilkington
      insufferably confrontational, "dickish", petty, and vindictive,
      His tactics always reminded me of a playground bully.
      I must say, however, that based on my own experiences, I fully support Geekesque getting banned. Although my views on a lot of topics are pretty contrarian within the context of Daily Kos, I manage to get on fairly well with nearly everyone here.

      Geekesque, however, I found to be insufferably confrontational, "dickish", petty, and vindictive, and I'm fairly certain that Daily Kos will be a better place without him.

      Daniel Ellsberg, “It was always a bad year to get out of Vietnam.”

      by allenjo on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 03:03:27 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Seems the People's View conservative crowd (0+ / 0-)

    ...were mostly pardoned and returned in force, despite their frequent condemnations of this site.  Not sure why it should be "safe" for that lot.   Whatever.

    "Money is like manure. You have to spread it around or it smells." J. Paul Getty

    by Celtic Pugilist on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 12:18:01 AM PDT

  •  Ask lightbulb (5+ / 0-)

    how much of a community it is.  He's the one who was hounded and identity questioned for no particular reason other than a few assholes decided they wanted to win the internet, that he had to leave.

    If this were an actual community no poster would ever have that fear.  Luckily the site does include actual sub groups that are communities.

    •  that's not why Lightbulb left... (5+ / 0-)

      here's his TTFNs:

      #1

      #2

      what happened was apparently (i saw the thread around the time it happened) someone whom Lightbulb introduced himself to as Lightbulb at NN (meaning someone he considered a friend here) said to him in a comment this week that it was really nice meeting him and said one other thing that could be a very very vague identifier and Lightbulb considered that too personal even though it was not really any specific info, so he got worried about all the folks he met at NN knowing his personal info and so he TTFNd.

      and he requested that comment with the personal info in it be deleted and it was.

      that's what happened.

      A) "The administration should be worried about the level of despair here." ~Markos Moulitsas at NN12 B) "Stoking the base’s enthusiasm is part of a campaign’s job, whether or not it thinks it should have to do it." ~Michelle Goldberg

      by poligirl on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 07:38:49 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm not going to belabor this (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        chimene, LaEscapee, Brit, joedemocrat, Timaeus

        beyond this one comment, but I hold a different version of this with a lot more history.

        I'm sorry, but I'm not at liberty to give further details nor will I since it would lead to an inevitable "pie fight." And we have better things to do with our time -- all of us -- right now rather than to engage in that sort of tit-for-tat stuff.

        Have a fantastic day.

        •  for me, i'm just going to take lightbulb at his... (9+ / 0-)

          word. i don't think he would lie about it MO.

          you ave a good day too.

          A) "The administration should be worried about the level of despair here." ~Markos Moulitsas at NN12 B) "Stoking the base’s enthusiasm is part of a campaign’s job, whether or not it thinks it should have to do it." ~Michelle Goldberg

          by poligirl on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 09:10:58 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  MO... (6+ / 0-)

          even tho we've had our differences of opinion, I've never hesitated to stand up for you if I ever felt you were being maligned in any way.

          Now, maybe we both know who made the offhand comment that spooked Lightbulb, a person who certainly meant no harm and was probably mortified to think they may have.

          There may have been unwelcome questions in Lightbulb's diaries, but an entire group was being smeared over it and blamed for that TTFN.

          You are welcome to hold any view you choose--I will only ask you one thing. Are any and all question as to a poster or diarist's authenticity out of line? Should anyone who has asked one or more of those questions then be sanctioned and an entire group they belong to then be maligned?

          No tit-for-tat intended here, just asking if we hold everyone to the same standards.

          I shave my legs with Occam's razor~

          by triv33 on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 09:25:38 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  C'mon MO (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          poligirl, m16eib, allenjo

          share with us your secret knowledge of the facts. I'm sure not everyone has been privy to "the history". Enquiring minds and all.

          There are no sacred cows.

          by LaEscapee on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 01:17:15 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  What do you expect? (0+ / 0-)

    This is a for-profit autocracy.  There is no due process.  And The Owner has established quite a reputation for being, shall we say, unpredictable.

    I've heard that people do actually survive getting banned here.  I don't know what your three years in the wilderness were like, but at least you lived to tell about it.

    What is amazing to me is that anyone would be as concerned about the possibility of being banned as you seem to be.  It's a website, after all.  And one that is usually filled with a great deal of inane propaganda.

  •  I've been here just over a year; (4+ / 0-)

    So a much shorter span than you.  I took the long way, through Slate and Salon and even HuffPo (shudder), looking for a worthwhile progressive place to spend my online time without too much beating of my favorite head against proverbial brick walls.  I was aware of this place, so in retrospect I'm not sure why I didn't come here sooner.  Today, this is one of two online communities I'd really miss if they vanished or booted me (though I'd keep lurking regardless in the second case).

    Anyway, I've been in a few rather heated exchanges during that year, some of which ended in people being banned and some of those people I defended when I felt the attacks against their opinion were overly witch hunty.  A few times, as I clicked the post button, I've thought, "Well, this is probably the one that ends me."  But, in spite of one warning for a rec of a comment that got the poster banned, I'm still here and my comment record still contains zero HRs.

    Now, some things you do see showcased here are almost universal progressive issues; our inability to form a unified front, for example, and all the attendant frustration that this entails.  I've accepted that this is simply part of the price we pay for all being such clever, open-minded people, but not everyone feels that way.  There is sometimes a rather disturbing hostility to my own party that I’m not fond of, and this still confuses me.  One would think that progressives looking to hold power, knowing our almost universal resistance to lockstep conformity, would make an effort to reach out to other progressives.  After all, we are all of us merely different flavors of freak as far as the Republicans are concerned, so it behooves us to band together, even if some of us do have serious reservations on the President’s drone warfare policy or whatever else the flame war du jour happens to be.  So sometimes some of us might require instruction on incremental success, tactical voting, or lesser of evils, and other times others of us might realize that we are not fulfilling the potential or showing the true spirit implicit in a word like progressive.  There is room for improvement on all sides, as usual.

    Still, I consider myself progressive for a simple reason.  The power that humanity now commands absolutely demands that we become better than we are if we expect to survive much longer as a species.  I consider other flavors of progressives as my allies in this project, even if I have to sometimes remind them that I am also their ally.  So to address your questions:

    Is this a safe place?
    Well, I have mostly found it so, though not too safe to not be interesting at times.
    Is this really a community?
    I'd say that it has the potential to become so, depending on how each person uses it.  I personally regret that I left San Diego without meeting up with any other Kossacks, but I also failed to make the most of my co-op, my dojo, Ocean Beach, the Sierra Club, the Surfrider Foundation, my political party or San Diego's dating scene.  Such is the life of a naval officer sometimes; all work and no play.  All of these things had community potential, and to the degree that it went unrealized, it was mostly my own failure to capitalize on it.  I’ll just have to do better when I return.

    Anyway, I've enjoyed your contributions here, so I hope you don't go and get yourself banned.  I agree with some of the other responders that mere dissent is not enough to get that trigger pulled; if it were, I'd never have lasted.  Instead, it seems to be a kind of application of Wheaton's Rule, which is easy to follow.

  •  Heh. There are some mornings when (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Timaeus, sofia

    I too log on and am surprised (and relieved) not to have received a warning of some sort. Against my better instincts, there are times when I just say "screw it," hit "Post" and see what ensues. Definite advantages to being a relatively low-profile commenter/diarist...

    Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time. (Terry Pratchett)

    by angry marmot on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 05:17:31 AM PDT

  •  for me, my rules of thumb are... (4+ / 0-)

    i do my damnedest (not always successful but mostly) to rate the comment and not the commenter.

    if i see a diary by someone i'm not fond of, unless i have a substantive comment (or defense in some cases), i do my best to stay out of it.

    i rarely HR, and never for disagreement. things tend to start getting punitive when HRs start getting thrown.

    if i'm in an argument, i do my best to stay on topic and substantial.

    i try my best to be respectful, even in the heat of an argument (admittedly not always successful there, but i try...)

    A) "The administration should be worried about the level of despair here." ~Markos Moulitsas at NN12 B) "Stoking the base’s enthusiasm is part of a campaign’s job, whether or not it thinks it should have to do it." ~Michelle Goldberg

    by poligirl on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 07:43:10 AM PDT

  •  I would be happy if he banned HR (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Timaeus

    I never HR anything because it's censorship and counter-productive because it's so often mis-used (according to the guidelines as I interpret them).

    I can sort of understand why Geekesque got banned, s/he had a tendency to go thorough cycles of combative and antisocial behavior, but fcvguy? Think he got caught in the cross-fire.

    Anyway, please don't be paranoid and please don't get banned.

    What about my Daughter's future?

    by koNko on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 08:53:57 AM PDT

  •  FWIW (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    LaEscapee

    This is NOT a community, but it likes to pretend that it is, in Orwellian fashion.

    That said, there are many who are so wrapped up in the goings on here that I wonder if they have anything else to occupy them.

    This is not the place to get informed unless one-sided, predictable spin is the objective.  

    As for being safe, there is NO WAY I would ever share personal information.

  •  I'm glad (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Timaeus

    you are still here, Timaeus. :)

    I don't know that I would call Dkos "unsafe" but I don't feel very comfortable here. Consequently, while I did decide to stick around, I rarely comment now.

    Part of the uncomfortable feeling likely comes from my lifelong not-belonging much of anywhere. I am not a joiner and I don't often fit in very well.

    But part of it is the presence of cliques and the practice of a few folks of taking advantage of that. It seems that those certain few people can do no wrong and nearly always make the Rec List even if their diary is mostly me, me, me and/or drama.

    At the same time, some possibly important diaries are not getting much attention because folks are busy patting the above diarists on the back and high-fiving them.

    That said, I am quite sure I should have just kept my mouth shut here and will go back to silent lurking until the next time I just can't sit on my hands any longer.

    These people have run out of others to blame, run out of bystanders to suspect, run out of decent family people to dismiss as Godless, sex-crazed perverts. They’re turning the gun on themselves now. - Matt Taibbi

    by BitterEnvy on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 11:09:36 AM PDT

  •  It's not a safe place Timaeus (4+ / 0-)

    You and I have fallen out, reconciled, disagreed - but it's been an individual thing

    As has been witnessed several times, some people run off site forums and conduct sad vendettas to troll people off the site.

    We know it happens. It's meaningless. But it has for as long as Kos has existed made this a dangerous site if you cross some invisible lines

    The Fall of the House of Murdoch -with Eric Lewis ready by June. Get your name in the book.

    by Brit on Thu Jun 14, 2012 at 02:40:36 PM PDT

  •  I started feeling unsafe (0+ / 0-)

    when "the great purge" happened. Until then I thought it was mainly rightwingers and other typical trolls that got banned. But then a lot of people I never thought of as trolls got banned. And as your diary says, it has happened after that too.

    Didn´t know you had been banned from 2005-2008. And you read here all the time ! You really deserved reinstatement.

    So I guess you are wise to be careful. I have also myself become more careful about what I rec (or hiderate). And I share some of your feelings;  it´s not a good thing that people now have to be nervous about being banned for rec´ing a bad comment they just didn´t see was bad.  And generally I don´t like to see longtime users who have participated in a meaningful way get banned.

    You may not pretend to be someone else, claim to be a race or gender or class or nationality you are not. Hunter

    by Mariken on Fri Jun 15, 2012 at 09:31:30 AM PDT

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