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A libertarian friend of mine just posted the following on Facebook:

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelives and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical."

-- Thomas Jefferson

With the footnote:  LIKE if you believe that the government mandating that you purchase a product hurts Economic Freedom.

Setting aside the point that Jefferson was talking about things like Tax Money going to pay for Churches and not Tax Money going to pay for your Doctor; setting aside the greater point that Facebook is not a good place to engage in substantive discussion; keeping in mind that we get along well enough that I can yank his chain occasionally without him getting mad at me; this is what I replied:

Hypothetical situation: Joe Virtuous does not have Heath Insurance, because he is young, heathlty and has no bad habits and therefore doesn't need it. Unfortunately, he gets run over in a traffic accident by one of those godless Lib'ruls. He gets taken to the Emergency Room and gets treated; but he can't afford to pay for the ER.

So, does the hospital eat the costs? No, the hospital shrugs and raises it's rates across the board to pay for all the other Joe Virtuouses who can't pay. That way they get reimbursed by the Insurance Companies.

So do the Insurance Companies take a hit? No, they've already raised their rates so that they can pay off the inflated hospital charges and still make a profit.

So who pays? You do. You and everybody else who pays for health insurance.

But when you see your insurance rates go up, you can smile and shed a tear of gratitude that at least the money you're paying isn't going to the Government.  Because that would be Tyranny.

The Personal Mandate in Obama's Health Care Act is taking away your freedom to NOT pay into the system and therefore let those other suckers with Health Insurance cover your own health needs.

We'll see how he resonds.

Originally posted to quarkstomper on Sat Jun 30, 2012 at 01:10 PM PDT.

Also republished by ClassWarfare Newsletter: WallStreet VS Working Class Global Occupy movement and German American Friendship Group.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (8+ / 0-)

    "All the World's a Stage and Everyone's a Critic." -- Mervyn Alquist

    by quarkstomper on Sat Jun 30, 2012 at 01:10:08 PM PDT

  •  Maybe he won't respond. It's a killer argument nt (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    quarkstomper, Angie in WA State
  •  One Response All Ready: (4+ / 0-)

    One of his friends posted:

    That godless lib'rul you speak of is supposed to have car insurance to pay for running people over. Not to mention how much people like to sue others for payment when they're run over. Now having Joe fall from a roof of his own stupidity would have been a better example. :o)
    And my reply:
    Well, for my hypothesis I wanted to send Joe to the ER because of circumstances which were by no means his fault; because as I said, He's Virtuous. But now that you mention it... Omigosh! That's right! My state requires that all drivers have auto insurance! It's Mandated! I'm living under the Iron Heel of Tyranny!!!

    "All the World's a Stage and Everyone's a Critic." -- Mervyn Alquist

    by quarkstomper on Sat Jun 30, 2012 at 01:21:49 PM PDT

    •  And Then... (0+ / 0-)

      The other person added:

      And he shouldn't have been walking or whatever in traffic. He was asking for it. lol
      And I replied:
      Here we get to a theological point. My little hypothetical contains the assumption that it is possible to require medical treatment through no fault of one's own. But that's my assumption; there is also the point of view that if a person suffers misfortune it is always because he did something to incur it. If, for example, a guy walking home from the movie theater one night gets beaten up by a couple punks with baseball bats, as happened to a friend*  of [the original Poster] once, why he brought it upon himself by being foolish enough to walk alone in a bad neighborhood. (And presumably no fault lies on the punks themselves). If this point of view is correct, then Joe Virtuous does not need Health Insurance after all, so long as he is truly virtuous. If he never does anything irresponsible enough to result in calamity, he will never have any need to see a doctor.
      *(Me)

      I think this is probably where I'm going to leave the argument.  I think I've made the points I wanted to, and I'm not sure how much of my life I want to devote to continuing it.

      "All the World's a Stage and Everyone's a Critic." -- Mervyn Alquist

      by quarkstomper on Sat Jun 30, 2012 at 07:43:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Framers Mandated Health Insurance Purchase 1790: (3+ / 0-)
    Harvard Law School professor Einer Elhauge writes that the very first Congress, in 1790, passed a law that included a mandate that ship owners buy medical insurance, but not hospital insurance, for their seamen. That Congress included 20 framers and was signed by another framer: President George Washington. In 1792, Washington signed another bill, passed by a Congress with 17 framers, requiring that all able-bodied men buy firearms. In 1798, Congress, with 5 framers, passed a federal law that required seamen to buy hospital insurance for themselves.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Sat Jun 30, 2012 at 01:28:40 PM PDT

    •  I Thought About Mentioning That... (0+ / 0-)

      But since this is Facebook, I wanted to try to keep my post short and simple.  (Well, I failed on short).  But I'll save that bit you quoted for future use.  Thanks.

      "All the World's a Stage and Everyone's a Critic." -- Mervyn Alquist

      by quarkstomper on Sat Jun 30, 2012 at 01:33:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Quoting Tom J out of context is meaningless (3+ / 0-)

    The man was such a bundle of contradictions that anyone could find something they think supports their view.

    I always wonder why conservatives and libertarians even like him. If he was alive today they would be calling him a wine drinking, French loving, cosmopolitan who never served in the war when he had a chance.

  •  The VA Act For Establishing Religious Freedom (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    quarkstomper
  •  UPDATE: My Friend Responded (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Shawn Russell

    My friend was away from Facebook for much of the afternoon, but he finally responded.  This is what he said:

    I'd be much less down on the welfare state if it used its money wisely. Just for one example, out of every dollar the Bureau of Indian Affairs takes in, less than ten cents or so gets spent on actual, you know, "Native Americans."

    In other words, he didn't have a good reply to my comment, so he changed the subject.  I'd count that as a win.  If I were keeping score.

    But of course that would be petty.  Heh.

    "All the World's a Stage and Everyone's a Critic." -- Mervyn Alquist

    by quarkstomper on Sat Jun 30, 2012 at 07:36:28 PM PDT

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