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For anyone who remembers the WMD story hat started the war in Iraq, they may soon have a dejavu!

From the Wall street Journal: U.S. Concerned as Syria Moves Chemical Stockpile.

From the link above:

Some U.S. officials fear Damascus intends to use the weapons against the rebels or civilians, potentially as part of a targeted ethnic cleansing campaign.
and it continues:
"This could set the precedent of WMD [weapons of mass destruction] being used under our watch," one U.S. official said. "This is incredibly dangerous to our national security."

Aha!  A dictator with WMDs again.   Time for war right?   For anyone who forgot the Iraq movie, it seems that there is a repeat of the movie starting in the Wall Street Journal.  

It also seems that some people really love wars.   After months of an intense propaganda to obviously push for a new intervention and war in Syria, in support of the Saudi backed rebels, it seems that now we have another WMD story.  

Lets see how easy people forget.   As bad and bloody as the Syrian regime may be, the rebels against it may not be much better.   The fact that Saudi Arabia is one of their major supporters and apparently weapon suppliers does not speak well of them.    The question is, of course, why do we need to take sides in a terrible civil war.   Hopefully the warmongers will not prevail and there will not be another new war there based on another "WMD story".

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Comment Preferences

  •  So wait there is concern, but (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OIL GUY

    No one is claiming they will or have. And I don't think anybody doubts Syria has chemical weapons. As you may recall Sadam did have chemical weapons that he had used against his people. The difference they no longer existed by the time Goerge claimed Sadam was making a nuclear weapon.

    CSMonitor

    Hard data on Syria's chemical and biological warfare capabilities is scarce, but the country is believed to have one of the largest chemical agents stockpiles in the world, including VX and Sarin nerve agents. It also has an impressive number of surface-to-surface missiles, such as Scud-Ds which can be fitted with chemical warheads, and modern Russian anti-aircraft missile batteries, including portable shoulder-fired systems.

    "This is unknown territory," says Charles Blair, senior fellow for State and Non-State Threats at the Washington-based Federation of American Scientists. "We have never been through the potential collapse via a very bloody ethnic civil war of a country that is likely armed with a very large stockpile of chemical weapons.”

    So it doesn't concern you that Assad may use these weapons on his own citizens?

    Republican Family Values: Using the daughters from your first wife to convince everybody that your second wife is lying about your third wife.

    by jsfox on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 07:00:14 PM PDT

    •  As much as Hussein in Iraq? (2+ / 0-)

      Do you remember how many times it was mentioned by the Bush administration that Hussein had used WMDs against his own people? Of course a detail was left out then.   That when he did, many years before the war, he was our ally and Rumsfeld had visited him then, as a member of the Reagan administration I think.

      To me it sounds like war propaganda, as it was in Iraq.

      •  I am fully awarecof when (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        OIL GUY

        Saddam used his weapons, twice. And personally I would hate to see Assad use them with similar results? Thousand upon thousands of deaths.

        Republican Family Values: Using the daughters from your first wife to convince everybody that your second wife is lying about your third wife.

        by jsfox on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 07:54:22 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Meanwhile reports surface of another massacre (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Horace Boothroyd III

    in Hama province.

    I don't like country-to-country comprisons a whole lot.  Iraq unlike Syria did not have Russian warships milling about and no one is talking about nukes.

    "Your diary is a pack of filthy lies." -bronte17

    by Setrak on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 07:17:04 PM PDT

    •  And how do you know that (2+ / 0-)

      the reported massacre is not war propaganda?  These are "unconfirmed" stories, based on reports by the Saudi-backed rebels.   How do we know whether those reports are true?

      •  I don't pretend to know, but (4+ / 0-)

        I know what the Syrian government has told the world ever since March 2011.   These protests happened in the midst of the Arab Spring but were triggered by children who had scrawled some anti-Assad graffiti and were punished by having their toenails ripped out.   The community of Darra where it happened began to protest, but those early protests said nothing about removing Assad.    The brutal crackdown against the reformist-inspired protests in Darra lead to protests across Syria in support of the city of Darra.   The brutal crackdown against those protests is what brought upon this civil war.

        This wouldn't be their first massacre.   I don't quite understand why you keep bringing up Saudi Arabia.  Why not Turkey which is housing the rear bases of the SFA and allowing weapons to flow in?   Qatar? Or the U.S. which is, let's face it, supporting the rebels?   The fact that any of these actors are supporting these rebels is insignificant to the cause of said rebels, just like the fact that Iran is supporting the Assad regime is insignificant to the evil of Assad's regime.

        The rebels aren't going to need direct military intervention.   Thus far, I've liked what I've seen of Obama's foreign policy.   He got us out of Iraq and gave us an honorable path for exit from Afghanistan, removed Qaddafi from power without putting U.S. boots on the ground, dealt with Iran with patience and consensus, killed bin Laden, absolutely decimated the mid and upper ranks of al-Qaeda Central, and played crucial roles in moving Egypt and Yemen towards democracy and away from tyrrany.   I trust Obama on Syria.

        "Your diary is a pack of filthy lies." -bronte17

        by Setrak on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 08:05:21 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Post of the Year Candidate +100 (0+ / 0-)

          Follow Me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/#!/TarantinoDork

          by TarantinoDork on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 08:07:16 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  The Saudis (0+ / 0-)

          and related regimes (Bahrain, Qatar, etc.) are horrible theocratic dictatorships as bad as Iran.  The fact that they provide weapons and are the primary actors pushing for a war there suggests that the rebels are similar to them.   As bad as them.   Otherwise they would not be supported by them.   As for Turkey, it has a long standing feud with their neighbor Syrians and they probably see it as a great opportunity to weaken their long standing enemy.  

          •  That would explain why one of Erdogan's (0+ / 0-)

            proudest FP-achievements until last year was his repairing of Turkey's relationship with Syria, which led to Syria halting PKK support for some time and a dramatic escalation of trade between the two countries.

            The Saudis, Bahranis, and Qataris are the primary actors pushing for a war in Syria?   Now, are you positive Assad's regime isn't the primary actor?   Perhaps followed by the Syrians that have been protesting/fighting said regime?  Heh.

            I'm not saying the gulf-guys are great guys, but I don't know why you keep bringing them up to bring down the Syrian rebels.   I guess you must not like them much?

            "Your diary is a pack of filthy lies." -bronte17

            by Setrak on Fri Jul 13, 2012 at 06:16:25 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  NBC News tonight (0+ / 0-)

        Visit msnbc.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy

        Multiple Eye Witnesses, Cell Phone video, and a visit to the actual mass grave of a massacre perpetrated last December.

        Follow Me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/#!/TarantinoDork

        by TarantinoDork on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 08:12:58 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Yemen has slaughtered, on a proportional basis, (5+ / 0-)

      ...many more of its citizens, yet I don't see administration officials asking the government to step down.

      And what about the dictators in Saudi Arabia?  Should they step down as well.

      Or are some Dictators more equal than others?

      Learn about Centrist Economics, learn about Robert Rubin's Hamilton Project. www.hamiltonproject.org

      by PatriciaVa on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 08:37:06 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Meant to say Bahrain, not Yemen. (3+ / 0-)

        Learn about Centrist Economics, learn about Robert Rubin's Hamilton Project. www.hamiltonproject.org

        by PatriciaVa on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 08:44:57 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You'd have had a point if you said Yemen (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          OIL GUY

          Other than the fact that we did tell "our dictator" Saleh to get the fuck out, which he did.  Ditto Mubarak.

          Less than 100 people are said to have died in Bahrain in a year's worth of beatings, teargassings, and.  Now thats a tragedy that deserves our condemnation and attention, but twice that many died just today in one town in Syria.

          17,000 Syrians have been killed by this government in the same time.

          100 - 17,000 That doesn't even work out on a proportional basis.  It would mean Syria was a country of 260 million people, which it isn't.

          Or are some civilian deaths just more equal than others?

          Follow Me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/#!/TarantinoDork

          by TarantinoDork on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 10:03:57 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Where do you get the 17,000 Syrian civilians (4+ / 0-)

            figure from. How many of these have been armed rebels, how many police or SAA, how many killed by rebels, how many killed by suicide bombers at checkpoints or other locations. What is the breakdown?

            When America kills civilians it's because the "cowardly" insurgents are hiding behind them and they are called collateral damage. When some other country, not in the US's favor does it, it's called a massacre.

            Did the 17,000 figure come the one man "Syrian Observatory for Human Rights" in London?

        •  Bahrain and the Saudis are (3+ / 0-)

          our allies.   In fact, they are in the coalition formed against Syria.  World record of hypocrisy.

          •  Bahrain has little to nothing to do with Syria. (0+ / 0-)

            I think you meant to say Qatar which is doing a lot in Syria, almost as much as they did in Libya.

            "Your diary is a pack of filthy lies." -bronte17

            by Setrak on Fri Jul 13, 2012 at 06:17:42 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  No, I meant Bahrain (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              protectspice

              In the sense that they have a horrible dictator who killed many citizens demonstrating with democracy with the help of the Saudis and UAE.   They are among the "friends of Syria" who drive the war together with the Saudis and Qatar.

              •  Again, twice as many killed by Assad yesterday... (0+ / 0-)

                Then Bahrain & GCC have killed in a year and a half.

                I condemn what Bahrain is doing to its people, I hope the protesters do succeed in gaining the democracy they seek.

                and if the repression there escalated to even a fraction of what we've seen in Syria, Yemen, or Libya, I too would support additional measures to ensure the downfall of the Khalifas.  For now, our influence is almost certainly preventing the Khalifas from being far more brutal.

                That was what we did in Yemen.  Even though Saleh was 'our dictator' when he started using artillery and heavy machine guns against civilians we pulled the rug out from under him.  He's gone.

                Russia should do to Assad what we did to Saleh and Mubarak.  Condemn his actions, withdraw support, lay down sanctions, and push him out of power.

                Why do you only care about civilians killed by "Pro-American" dictators?

                Follow Me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/#!/TarantinoDork

                by TarantinoDork on Fri Jul 13, 2012 at 10:08:18 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  You argument would make sense IF (0+ / 0-)

                  we were not selling weapons to Bahrain.   We (the US) are selling weapons to Bahrain.    That shows clearly that we want the regime to survive and we facilitate its survival by selling them weapons that they use to kill their people.  Simple as that.    

                  By the way, I care about civilians killed by any dictators.   But I find it particular hypocritical that we will support wars against anti-American dictators (or some not particularly useful pro-American like Gaddafi) while at the same time helping brutal pro-American dictators.  Simple.

                  •  Fuck hypocrisy (0+ / 0-)

                    220 people killed by gunships and artillery and death squads yesterday is an atrocity on a whole other level than the beatings and teargassings we've seen in Bahrain.

                    Its the difference between the LA Riots and Srebernica.

                    Again, when a regime's brutality crossed a certain line, we've thrown them under the bus.  Thats what we did in Yemen, thats what we did in Egypt.  And that message clearly got across to Bahrain because they aren't blasting protesters away with machine guns.

                    The Russians, however, clearly don't give a fuck how despicable their favored tyrants are.  They have no limits, and will defend their murderous puppets like Assad, Omar Bashir, or Robert Mugabe to the bitter end.

                    We still suck, no question. We back Saudi Arabia, Kazakhstan, the thieves known as the Gulf Emirs.  But eventually our conscience kicks in and that makes us

                    And plenty of us see the Arab Spring as a tide that will with time see the world being done with all of them. The Assads, the Khalifas, the Saudis, the Emirs, the Iranian Mullahs...all of them.  That there is a domino effect is already beyond doubt.  Tunisia sparked Egypt, Egypt sparked Libya, Libya sparked Syria and Yemen.  If Assad goes, the Arab Spring will have crossed into the heart of the Middle East...the sky will be the limit.

                    You want to really help the people of Bahrain and all those living under the brutal thumb of dictatorship?  Then write seriously about what is going on in Syria and everywhere.  Don't whitewash it.

                    Follow Me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/#!/TarantinoDork

                    by TarantinoDork on Fri Jul 13, 2012 at 11:34:26 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Wrong (0+ / 0-)
                      And that message clearly got across to Bahrain because they aren't blasting protesters away with machine guns.
                      Yes, they did.   And the only reason protesters stop protesting is because they were getting killed and had no weapons.

                      The difference in Syria is that we facilitated the armed civil war by allowing the Saudis to give weapons to the rebels (and maybe by giving the rebels weapons ourselves).  

                      What is happening in Syria now does not seem to be random killing of civilians but war between armed factions.  Of course, for propaganda reasons everything seems to be hugely exaggerated, while the crimes of the rebels and associates are not give attention.   Why was there no attention to the 2 cases of massive suicide bombings in Damascus that killed many civilians?  These were done by people who were against the regime obviously.   Why were nt those horrific times constantly condemned in the MSM as the Assad crimes are condemned?

                      •  The Obama administration condemned the suicide... (0+ / 0-)

                        attacks.  And the mainstream media constantly reports (and IMO exxagerates) the presence of Al Qaeda militants within the Syrian opposition.  I condemn them, as do all the Syrian activists I'm in touch with.

                        Though its amusing that according to you and Claudius and others the suicide bombings are "certainly carried out by the opposition" yet any time we see evidence of a wholesale, organized massacre of civilians the line I get from many here in return is that its "war propaganda" "unconfirmed" and "we don't know who did it, if it indeed happened."  There are plenty here who still insist that the FSA carried out the massacre in Al-Houle despite all evidence to the contrary.

                        The standard of evidence for crimes committed by Assad is very high, the standard of evidence for crimes committed by those opposing him very very low.

                        How about one standard?

                        Also, again.  In Bahrain, the oppression has been in the form of beatings, rubber bullets and teargas.  The number of people killed by gunfire or other military weapons is less than two dozen (in Syria, a day in which only 24 people were shot to death would be called a welcome respite.)  Thats a crime for which the Khalifas should pay, but there's no comparison to the bloodletting in Syria, Yemen, and Libya.  Places where dictators never bother to buy teargas and watercannons because they just want more DSHKA machine guns and T-72 tanks.

                        Follow Me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/#!/TarantinoDork

                        by TarantinoDork on Fri Jul 13, 2012 at 12:23:36 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

  •  Oh come on! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PatriciaVa, Funkygal

    They would never try that one again!! It would never work!

    I sincerely hope so, anyway.

  •  BTW. Tipped and Recced. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mickT, truong son traveler

    This veteran wants our troops home safe and sound. They have been stretched past their limit for too many years now.

  •  They can take my (0+ / 0-)

    chemical weapons stockpile when they pry it from my cold dead hands.

  •  Lack of a predicate does not invalidate a (0+ / 0-)

    factual assertion.

    What's your proof of duplicity?

  •  A massive propaganda assault is underway (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Claudius Bombarnac, protectspice

    I don't believe anything reported in the Western corporate media.

    Check out this story from last month. "Syrian rebels aim to use chemical weapons, blame Damascus"

    The armed Syrian opposition has got their hands on chemical weapons, which they acquired from Libya, a media report claims. They allegedly plan to use it against civilians and pin the atrocity on the Bashar al-Assad regime.

    ­The report by DamPress claims the opposition group in possession of the weapons is being trained in its use inside Turkey. No further detail on the alleged conspiracy is given.

    Guess who is doing the training in Turkey.
    The chemical framing plot allegations comes days after British journalist Alex Thomson from Channel 4 news accused a Syrian opposition group of trying to set him and his crew up to be killed by government forces. He said a western journalist death would give bad publicity for Damascus.

    Orwell - "Political language ... is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable"

    by truong son traveler on Fri Jul 13, 2012 at 02:53:43 AM PDT

  •  Wait!...Wasn't IRAN next on the list? (0+ / 0-)

    Can you just jump ahead like that?  I mean they've been pushing the Iranian threat meme since Bush got re-elected......

    We even had the Gulf of Tonkin redux/ Persian Gulf speedboat incident along with the incessant 'nuclear bomb' is on the way meme......

    Funny how we're still checking off the neo-con hit list - even with a Democratic President......so much for 'change'....

    Life isn't fair but you should try to leave it fairer than you found it.

    by xrepub on Fri Jul 13, 2012 at 04:16:19 AM PDT

  •  Wait... Syria is Iraq? (0+ / 0-)

    Gosh, and here I thought that Libya was Iraq.

    International awareness of where the Syria regime's stockpiles of chemical weapons are, and whether they are being moved, is quite sensible.

    Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time. (Terry Pratchett)

    by angry marmot on Fri Jul 13, 2012 at 05:41:35 AM PDT

  •  no one is using WMD as a pretext for war. (0+ / 0-)

    few doubt Syria has chemical weapons, anyway.  This isn't big news.

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