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Last week was a pivotal week in America, for lots of reasons. The subject of this diary is one of them.

Much as been made of the Special Investigations surrounding the roles and responsibilities of the Pennsylvania State University, it's leadership, and its peculiar "Happy Valley Fever". The Freeh Report has been issued in this past week. In the order of things, it is a superior fact to those which immediately follow here.

Please keep that in mind, if you would care to visit my opinions. That word (superior, as in order) is the basis of what follows here. My opinions will not be extravagantly or elequenty nuanced. I will try to keep them brief, simple, and mine alone.


Courts have spoken regarding a decades-long sexual predator named Jerry Sandusky who, it would seem, began his tenure at Pennsylvania State University in the late summer of 1963, which would put him on campus before Joseph V. Paterno was hired to serve the University as the Head Football Coach in 1966, which would have been Sandusky's senior undergraduate year. Sandusky comes from a community service oriented family. Two of his sons are currently engaged in football coaching. Sandusky is currently serving what will, in all likelihood, be a life sentence in Pennsylvania after being convicted of 45 charges of sexual predation, among other convictions.

The jury has spoken regarding the known (so far) criminal acts of a man. The University who enabled his predation--and an entire community who conveniently looked the other way while children's entire lives were forever damaged, have not yet been adjudged for their, according to Former FBI Director Louis Free and his commission, intentional, willing, manufactured and decades-long complicity in those acts.

Those necessary conversations are only now beginning. My opinions on these matters are mine alone, and offered before those conversations are conducted for a reason, which I will make clear momentarily.

This is one man's opinion, and nothing more. I hope you will follow me, just past the squiggledoodlethingey fold, and visit things from this one man's perspective.

Don't watch.  Listen. Read the scroll.

The video is linked in the intro for those who do not have youtube or video capability. There is a reason for this.

Much ado was made of the trial of Jerry Sandusky. His name was forever scribed into the cellular constitution of Pennsylvania State University. Yes, forever. After the protest gatherings on the university campus by loyal and loving student fans and athletes, for "their" JoePa. For some reason, those demonstrations wrankled some noses and offended some sensibilities. The legend of college football had just been ceremoniously dumped, and it was very clear why.

Paterno had been fired by the University for activities not his own. So, why did the University fire him? Three reasons come immediately to mind. After watching the above video, those reasons remain in my mind.

Paterno was fired because he didn't quit, as he had been requested to do. After all, this man WAS Joe Paterno, after all. He was going to finish his tenure at Pennsylvania State University as he had lived it: on his terms.  

It's easy enouh to understand; it doesn't take many column inches. There was no planning, and no opportunity to "soften" this suddenly new reality for the innocents of Pennsylvania State University. Unless you count the decades when, while this inhumane travesty was ongoing, of course.

For some, as then yet unknown reason, Joe had to go. Now. No, not at the end....NOW!  Says who?

Spanier and Curly, that's who. Pennsylvania State University's Vice President: Business and Finance and the President of Pennsylvania State University, that's who. The Board of Trustees, the Board of Regents, and the Governor of the State of Pennsylvania. That's who said so. In unison. Even without knowing (according to their individual and collective legal brain trusts) either the specifics or the depths to which this atrocity would flow. Interestingly, they still don't. They are very liable to be shell-shocked before this play brings down its curtain. Count on it.

After all, the reputation and good name of Pennsylvania State University must be preserved, at all costs! More arrests. Spanier is fired. Curly is fired. More arrests. Interim president is selected because, despite what the illusion may be turning into, anyone with university administration experience knows that the replacement is the guy that forgets to take three steps back with volunteers are requested.

They were doing to Paterno what, using Paterno as their "hammer" for decades before, they had done to so many others. "I AM Penn State!" JoePa would say, throughout his fifty-plus years as an employee there.

Watching the vido, two things fairly jumped out at me.

The first was the picture of JoePa on the page in which the video is embedded. Prominently featured at the upper left corner, in fact. The second was the trail which I had to follow to get to that page, beginning with the Pennsylvania State University's home page. I also had to pass through the pages highlighting sports opportunities for children through the "Summer Sports Camps: 2012" pages...for youth. Pennsylvania State University is having those camps, just as they have since they were originated through the mind of Jerry Sandusky, decades ago, right this very moment. Which is why I linked to that page in the intro.

There is much excitement regarding the upcoming Big Ten Football season at Pennsylvania State University these days, it seems by travelling through the Athletic department pages on the web site.

YadJoePa deada yadYouth Campa yada yado yFootballada yada yafootballda yada yadFreehReporta interview with "shocked" journalist that JoePa so clearly lied to Grand Jurya yada yada ad nauseum. White noise. Just lots and lots of white noise.

New pages, new print, new pages...since Thursday. The plan of the senior administration of the Pennsylvania State University is clear.

Those victimized by Jerry Sandusky--well, at least those we know about now, for the time being at least, have had their one short moment. Distance.

Sandusky is FINALLY in jail, and we can begin to put this behinds us. To use Curly's own words, we can put Pandora back in the box. That has been tried before. Hell, Pandora tried it. The results are uniformly, ridiculously predictable. Go, Mustangs!

Wanna bet, Buckwheat?

JoePa is dead. That's when the second thing hit me about this video and the path I had to take to get to it. JoePa is dead. Our debt has been paid. Wanna bet?

Sandusky is in (or under) a jail somewhere. He can't bring further harm to Pennsylvania State University any more. Wanna bet?

For those of you old enough, don't respond. Just listen for a minute. Let's try a little thought experiment for a moment together. Ready?

Mustang Football.

Did you get it?

No? Okay, let's try a little more.


Not there yet? Okay. Just a couple more. I'm sure you'll get it soon.


Still not getting it? (sigh)

Death Penalty

Oh, NOW you have it! Great. You really ARE a fanatic, aren't ya!

How many people remember the team name? (Nittany Lions, by the way.)

How many people remember the name of the coach who was fired from one of the best (paid for) collegiate football programs in the history of the sport, the game itself?

Have you seen the Mustangs play recently? New coach Forrest Gregg inherited that team. It was a team left with nothing. It was a team that had just recently featured a young man by the name of Eric Dickerson who would be a "winner" in his own right in the football game, among others. Remember that?

I'll bet you don't.

I'll bet you remember the scandal, the outrage at the NCAA daring to tell a University what it could, or could not do with it's athletic programs. I'll bet you remember that. That's how you remember SMU football. More than forty years later.

JoePa's dead.

We'll just blame it all on JoePa. What's he going to do, complain? He didn't do so really well defending himself before his death. He's dead. We'll just pile the entire matter on his grave. Yeah, that's the ticket. Mrs Sandusky and her children? MaPa and her children? Collateral damage, and absolutely nothing more. Why? Because Pennsylvania State University wills it, that's why.

Now, watch the video again. I dare ya. Notice that the famed journalist did NOT say the words crawling below his face as he spoke. His contribution was his utter shock and sadness, along with others, to learn that JoePa lied to a Grand Jury. The Freeh Report proved it, after all. Shock. Awe.

As I meandered through the Pennsylvania State Univerity's web pages, I had to go through the Summer Camps:2012 pages, too. Children. On campus. Sports Camps. 2012.


The spin is in. JoePa's dead. Blame it on JoePa. Everything. Pile it on his destroyed legacy. He certainly deserves it, after all. From 1963 on, Sandusky had been on campus. Who knows how many he harmed since then? Nobody knows. Yet. But, there are many who know a lot about Sandusky, and those like him. There is much they could (and I hope will) tell you about serial pedophiles. Heck, maybe we should talk to Matt. I bet HE could tell us a bit about it. When was it, for instance, that Matt was 9, or 10 years old again?

In my opinion, you have precisely two sides to this entire issue.

I've got dear, dear friends who are directly or indirectly affected by this issue. I've heard the discussions, read them, watched them. But, from my perspective, there are only two sides to the discussion.

On one side are the children of the shadows, the children of the silence. People like me.

You know,the children who, for decades, have been serially abused by Jerry Sandusky with the certain knowledge, implied permission, and abetting of the Pennsylvania State University, its staff, faculty, and administration.

When JoePa first learned and understood the gravity of the situation before him, what was his first inclination? Who knows? Perhaps his heart, being a good catholic heart, after all, went into shock for the children. Okay. What did JoePa DO?

Nothing. For decades. Until the situation was no longer controllable. You see the decision was made decades ago to contain this situation for so long as it was containable, but no further. But, by whom? The children? Second Mile? JoePa? Curly? Spanier?

Was there input from the Physics, or Music, the world renowned College of Engineering, or Mathematics professors? Students?

No, there wasn't.

Well, then how about the University staff? Surely they would have the decency to turn this plan on it's ear?

How many university's Police Department do you know who report first to the head coach of the football program? How many Finance VPs do you know who are complicit with a decades-long extortion plan from one of your own employees--and go along with it? How many Boards of Trustees or Regents, or even a Governor or several would accept having no information regarding the very issue which could, under their watch, eviscerate and even potentially destroy that very University? For decades?

Then, of course, the janitors do still remember that whole fiasco with the disappearing Investigator.

They are ALL on the other side of this issue. Which, if I may put it more plainly, is:

The children versus everyone else at Pennsylvania State University.

Had they known these were the lines so carefully, scrupulously, and maliciously drawn, with malice aforethought, how many students, athletes, professors and staff would have walked onto the Pennsylvania State University campus twenty or forty years ago?

How many corporations would have whored out the tenured faculty with pittance grants for the research results which have brought these corporate raiders of the dreamers of our future billions of dollars in profit, if only they had known to what they were attaching their corporate name? How many dreamers, the students, the faculty, and the researchers who wanted nothing more than to find a better tooth brush, or a cure for cancer would have agreed to such a relationship?

How many parents, knowing of this deal with the devil against the children, would have agreed to pay for tuition, provided "Care Packages", or traveled on their last, meager savings just to watch their child finally walk across the stage--and maybe even take in a Pennsylvania State University football game in the process? How many groundskeepers, IT professionals, cafeteria workers, cops, or chaplains would have stepped foot on THIS campus, had they only known?

The point is, they did not know. The particular point is, they did not know because the uppermost executive leadership of Pennsylvania State University, who either knew, or should have known, refused to be involved, for that would have required the telling. Curly himself said it. Spanier said it. The Chairwoman of the Board of Regents said it. Sandusky said it. Paterno said it.

We are not going to tell them. While news reporters were reporting the breaking story, Regents and Trustees were running around the Admin building trying to find their President. "Why are we not aware of this??" They cried, loudly. Damage control sometimes really does kick in automatically, after all. That was the decision made so long ago, with their consent--whether direct or implied. Only time will finally reveal which is true, and for whom.

Well the reason you did not know was because your University Administration desired for you not to know, deemed it unnecessary (in fact, dangerous to their scheme) for you to know. That's why you did not know. As to why it took you watching your President and Vice President for Finance and Business being arrested to even ask the question? Well, it was an indication of just how good their plan had been, how well it had worked for the decades past and present. But, mostly, it was because they simply did not want you to know. You didn't. Yet, your very position, and the pay which went with it, required you to know. As much as it was their job to inform you, it was much moreso your obligation to earn those outrageous checks from the Pennsylvania State University by doing your jobs.  Comfort can be alluring, and addictive. It was. You were. You did not do your jobs, and you must accept the consequences of THAT choice, and the punishments for yourselves and others, including every innocent victim on YOUR side of the equation, as well. That's the bed you made. Now, you really must lie in it. But on YOUR side of the equation, if you please.

These men and women made this decision decades ago, for the Pennsylvania State University. An integral part of their decision, as we now know, included some rather surface-level considerations about what might happen if this ever got out to the university population, from the most senior leadership all the way down to the next year's athletic freshman standout. You knew this, just as well as those who were actually running the university in front of your faces knew this.

You, and they decided that any future fallout was of lesser importance: those students, their Mas and Pas travelling on their last dimes, those scholarship athletes who saw a bright and very profitable future, those research dollars and we must not forget the vendors, advertisers, and other "associated" victims of this plan...secondary importance. Those constituencies all got involved, without their input when the decision was made to not actively participate in the prosecution of an Assistant Football Coach (best AC in the nation...twice!) for serial child sexual abuse.

Now, we come to a point where some accountability is called for, because the decision, made all those decades ago, are beginning to come due. You cannot claim ignorance, unless you claim willful ignorance ex post facto. This is not an affirmative defense. It is mitigation for a greater penalty.

Yes, innocent students will be harmed. Yes, the Pennsylvania State University will suffer the sorrows of its own design. As the design was instigated, and promulgated under the illusion of willful yet innocent ignorance, so does, as it inevitably does, the punishment also include absolute punishment for THAT offense, as well. Not only what you did is prosecuted, you see. What you did not do is also punishable.

Yes, workers will lose their income. From cafeteria vendors to sports agents. Students, staff and faculty will be irreparably harmed. Degrees issued by Pennsylvania State University will now be seen in an entirely different view by every employer, or potential employer for as long as the Pennsylvania State University continues to offer degrees. Or their graduates. Or their research facilities. Or their Athletic Department to Children's Summer Camps, for the sake of Alonzo Stagg!!

You think it's bad now? It is only beginning. It will get worse. Much, much worse. And you, Pennsylvania State University, still do NOT get it. So, I offer this to you so that you will, perhaps, finally begin to understand the choices made, the penalties paid, and the sadness of the innocent.

All of this rests on one side of a simple equation. You, Pennsylvania State University, do not have the right, the privilege of changing sides. You made that choice decades ago. You have run your university, colleges and departments FROM the decision you made, protecting that decision in every way possible, including generational ignorance. You may not now change sides for the comfort of public opinion or the hopes of lesser penalties. Not your Regents, your Trustees, your faculty, your staff, your workers, nor your athletes and students. These have all been, at your insistence, irreparably harmed. Now the price must be paid. Why?

Because of the other side of the equation, Pennsylvania State University. The children.

Those children have, for decades, taken your choice upon their own backs. They did not do so willingly, or voluntarily. It was forced upon them. Yet, they took it. The entire weight of your unpaid penalties has rested upon these innocents--not merely too, but first. That was, you see, the plan; the trade-off. Morality was beaten by money. What was right was trumped by what was right now. Legions of serial child abuse victims lost out to one legend. Generations denied their right simply to BE, because of decades of purposeful, evil, malignance so ingrained that even those who didn't "know", knew.

For me, the equation is simple. The children / The University that JoePa built.

Now, today we begin to see the plan the other side has to deal with this entirely ugly mess. Blame it on Joe. Joe's dead.

It will not work, Pennsylvania State University. It will not work.

You must accept the responsibility for the decisions you have consistently made, for decades, heaping the very uncivil dirty work upon the backs, and into the minds and hearts of every set of eyeballs who have looked to you for their best...everything. The students, the athletes, the workers, the staff, the faculty and the administration. Given the one opportunity to lead your way out of this morass, you purposely choose to hold Children Sport Camps in 2012, right now in fact. You choose to create a pablum for the masses, while heaping all your obligations for accountability upon a corpse.

It is you, Pennsylvania State University, who has done this. You have done it with absolute arrogance, hubris, and sense of entitlement that you do not deserve, which you have not earned. Yet, there IS a statue of a legend standing today. Your statement is clear.

And, therefore, you cannot be entrusted even with this one open window of opportunity to voluntarily take upon yourselves the one good thing you could do now; the one step which could begin a journey back for Pennsylvania State University. You will not do it voluntarily. You will not do it for the children.

You will, instead, see just how much weight one statue can hold. You will shift your punishment, your accountability upon molded metal, in the newly-discovered hope that you might once again remove yourselves from harm's way, avoid the punishments you do so rightly and richly deserve. You know that it is only a matter of time, just as it was decades ago. But, now you believe you have created an option that will give you more time. Perhaps, with this time, emotions will cool, courtrooms will not be quite so hostile, and those upon whom you so badly depend for the dollars to justify your existence will not remember.

It is a fool's errand, and you know it. In the meantime....

What about the children? The other side of this equation? What statement are you making to these children, Pennsylvania State University?

In my book, the children win. Period. Is there a student, a fan, a parent, a coach, an administrator who would, seriously, think otherwise? Really?

Many have in the past. They were wrong, dead wrong.

You, Pennsylvania State University cannot be trusted with children...of any age. You hurt them, harm them, and whore them for dollars. For a game. For a legend. Welcome.

Welcome, Pennsylvania State University to the legacy your legend has given you. As you have sown, so now may you reap.

Pennsylvania State University must immediately cease and desist Children's Sport Camps. Forever. Pennsylvania's children are not now, and will never again hope to be safe there. Because Pennsylvania State University, you wither cannot or will not see and completely understand this reality, you cannot be trusted with either voluntary decision making or compliance. This decision will necessarily be made for you, because you will not make it for yourself.

Pennsylvania State University must immediately cancel the 2012 Big Ten Conference activities, in all sports. Right now. Yes, even Basketball, baseball and the Olympics. But, think of all the innocent people that would harm.

I am. I'm thinking of several tens of them who have already been harmed. And, before you tell me that such actions won't help, or change those victims? Save it. What it will do is perhaps put serious brakes on the likelihood that there will ever be another added to THEIR rosters. It's those rosters I care about. In fact, to be completely honest with you, that is the ONLY roster I care about. It is, you see, that side of the equation that I care about. The children. I'm not ON your side of this equation. I never can be. I never will be.

Should the Pennsylvania State University NOT immediately suspend and remove its Children Sport Camps, and all athletic activities associated with the Big Ten Conference, the National Collegiate Athletic Association, the NAUI, and/or any other officially recognized collegiate athletic activity, I call upon those organizations to do what Pennsylvania State University has indicated, by it's insensitivity and callous, malicious, and wreckless disregard for all who are affiliated with it that it will not do for itself. Immediately.

Should that not be the result of this request, I call upon the Governor of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, through his State Constitutional powers, to offer the Boards of Trustees and Regents of Pennsylvania State University, the following alternatives:

1. Inject terminal poison into your entire athletics programs within the next 72 hours, or

2. I, as the Governor of Pennsylvania will cause Pennsylvania State University to be darkened, entirely, for a minimum of 100 years.

You like apples?

How do ya like THEM apples?

Then, and only then, can the citizens of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania regain any semblance of control over THEIR land grant University, which actually IS a constitutional obligation of the Commonwealth.

So is providing for the safety, security and "general welfare" of the citizens of Pennsylvania. All of them, regardless of age, race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, religion, or other affiliation.

All of this is entirely independent (or at least it should be) of any decision by any Law Enforcement Agency, Court of competent jurisdiction, or group affiliation (including Boards of Accountability such as Trustees or Regents). Or University Administrators in State College, Altoona or Allentown. Imagine how grateful those folks are that Sandusky didn't start a football program in their town. The Death Penalty was FIRST imposed upon my hero, my legend, Adolph Rupp. He survived it. So did his athletic program. So did his University.

So did I.

So will you, good and caring citizens of Pennsylvania. lf, however, and only if, you do what you know in your soul as you stand, leaning against the door frame of your child's bedroom door as they sleep at night.

Because this should never have happened, so must this never happen again. Ever. Anywhere. It's a harsh punishment. It should be. It MUST be.

For only in such an outcome can we, the children of the shadows, the children of the silence, EVER hope to become children of the Sunshine, no matter our age.

Go, Mustangs!

3:47 PM PT: I'll be gone for a few hours (necessary). I'll be back, and will continue my part of the conversation in the comments. Thank you to everyone who has honored me by participating in the discussion. I do appreciate it.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Yeah, well. So much for brevity. :) (5+ / 0-)

    I tried, and actually cut many thousands of words from this diary. I hope the ones which remain will accurately reflect my personal opinion on this subject. This is the only time I intend to speak about it via diary. I hope you will let me know what YOUR opinion is.

    Nurse Kelley says my writing is brilliant and my soul is shiny - who am I to argue?
    Left/Right: -7.75
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51

    by Bud Fields on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 12:58:42 PM PDT

    •  Bud - I don't think that Penn State Football (6+ / 0-)

      will receive any serious penalty from the NCAA because no student athletes were involved in this tragedy and have limited jurisdiction. What happened to the children is horrific, but I don't think the new head football coach and staff or the Penn State football players should be penalized. I do believe that other Penn State parties, including people in administration, should go to jail.

      "let's talk about that"

      by VClib on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 01:06:27 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The NCAA isn't only about students (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        leu2500, Mannie, jayden

        Their membership rules extend to staff assistants, coaches, DA's and University Administration as well.

        Nurse Kelley says my writing is brilliant and my soul is shiny - who am I to argue?
        Left/Right: -7.75
        Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51

        by Bud Fields on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 01:17:23 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes: rules govern the program, not the students (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Bud Fields

          If an academic department loses its accreditation through gross mismanagement, the students suffer.  

          However, in revoking accreditation, the accreditation board is not punishing or penalizing the students for the misdeeds of people at the top.  They are simply enforcing their standards for academic programs, without which the accreditation board would be meaningless as a standards body.

          While we must acknowledge that lots of unrelated people will suffer from a death penalty, I think it is wrong to frame the enforcement of academic standards as the NCAA punishing the students and new coaches.  

          It also pushes blame to the wrong people.  If an academic program is mired in corruption and is then rejected by a standards body, it's not the standards body who is screwing over the current students.  

          My head says "No" but my heart says "Yes". And then my liver says "What?" and my butt's all like "Farrrrrrt" --jbou

          by Caj on Tue Jul 17, 2012 at 07:39:22 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  This argument always comes up. (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Smoh, Mannie, Bud Fields, jayden

        Here's the NCAA's letter to Penn State.

        I am writing to notify you that the NCAA will examine Penn State's exercise of instiutional control over it's athletic department
        And then the NCAA explains what is meant by this and points out that there is a spirit to the bylaw, not just the letter.

        The fact that the president and AD were subordinate to the football coach is the very definition of lack of institutional control.  Spirit vs. letter means that the NCAA can penalize  Penn State for the crimes and cover up.  The only question is if the normally spineless NCAA  will actually impose meaningful penalties.  Which by the way will wait until they let the legal cases play out.  

        My 2 cents: SMU got the death penalty because they were caught paying players & the school, not just the coach, continued to pay players because "they had a payroll to meet."  That's down right trivial compared to "think of the program and the university" instead of "stop the predator amongst us from raping children." If the NCAA death penalty is an eye for an eye, so be it.  

        Republicans: if they only had a heart.

        by leu2500 on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 02:55:04 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  leu - I would be surprised if there are any (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          taffers, Bud Fields, leu2500

          substantive penalties handed out by the NCAA. Both the criminal and civil legal systems are holding the parties accountable. There is no doubt that anyone in the Penn State administration who was involved in this tragedy and is still employed must be terminated, subject to the due process requirements of their positions. However, if all the guilty parties are "punished", and no longer at the University, why punish to new head coach, staff and players who had nothing to do with any of this?

          "let's talk about that"

          by VClib on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 03:11:54 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  there are a lot of student and fans (0+ / 0-)

            who haven't "got it" yet.

            And it's a hit in the pocket book.  

            Yeah, the endowment will take a hit with the settlements with the victims.   But football need to take it's hit, too.  Football was the reason this happened.

            College football is a business.  Someone on DK has the sig line "I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one."  I'm all for the NCAA proving that.

            Do I think they will?  Probably not.  But I'm on record that they should.    

            Republicans: if they only had a heart.

            by leu2500 on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 06:49:01 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  just have to ask (10+ / 0-)

    is Penn State a University with a football team, or is it a football team with a university.  We will soon find out

    Bad is never good until worse happens

    by dark daze on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 01:06:09 PM PDT

  •  Good lord, enjoy all the guilt by association (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    taffers, NormAl1792, Smoh, thestructureguy

    you're working on selling?

    Punish those directly involved with no need to go to such draconian lengths as "cause Pennsylvania State University to be darkened, entirely, for a minimum of 100 years." I guess the other non-offending coaches and players need to be punished as well. Not to mention the non-offending academic departments.

    Step back from the edge...

    WTF!?!?!?! When did I move to the Republic of Gilead?!

    by IARXPHD on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 01:27:26 PM PDT

    •  Interesting comment. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      leu2500, Mannie

      In the first place, I'm really not selling anything; I'm offering a personal opinion.

      Secondly, when the leadership made this decision, they most assuredly knew that other, and entirely innocent victims could be the result.

      Is it so stunning now to discover that this is, in fact true? Why they believed these other affected victims counted less, I cannot say.

      But, the other outstanding academic departments of which you rightly speak, did not seem to hold the same value to those who created this in the first place, did they? With such an overwhelming body of evidence to the otherwise, the decision was made, supported, enabled, encouraged, and lest we forget, endorsed by the University's leadership and administration...for decades.

      Yes, as I state in my opinion, many innocents will suffer for the decision made. That is not a greater sadness, only the realization of one which others took so lightly as to not choose wisely. They are the ones who should be leading this fight. I hope they will. If they make their voices heard, then perhaps the other options will not have to be employed. I hope that is the case. I really do.

      However, given the evidence I have seen since Thursday of last week, that is not likely to sway the administration or leadership of the University to change it's path, or correct it's course voluntarily.

      Nurse Kelley says my writing is brilliant and my soul is shiny - who am I to argue?
      Left/Right: -7.75
      Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51

      by Bud Fields on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 01:47:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You ever worked in a University? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        You think that anything ever happens quickly in one as big as Penn St. You think because a report came out last week, everything should be fixed yesterday!

        How do you know that

        "They are the ones who should be leading this fight." are not leading it.
        Just how much do you think can be changed in less than a week? Yet you throw out veiled accusations that they are not going to be addressed.
        With such an overwhelming body of evidence to the otherwise, the decision was made, supported, enabled, encouraged, and lest we forget, endorsed by the University's leadership and administration
        That's way out there! The goings on of University administration are pretty much a mystery to most faculty. Anything beyond your department is pretty much a mystery.  And that's my experience at a school not even 10% the size of Penn St.

        Just admit it, you're pissed that SMU got the well deserved penalty for it's FB team and you want another school to have the same.

        WTF!?!?!?! When did I move to the Republic of Gilead?!

        by IARXPHD on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 01:58:29 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Also (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        Much of your diary gives the feel of "making a point". You know what, I've seen too many people get hurt over making some theoretical "point" with no REAL outcome attached, that I am sick of that tactic. It's unproductive and a close cousin to stubbornness for the sake of being stubborn.

        WTF!?!?!?! When did I move to the Republic of Gilead?!

        by IARXPHD on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 02:01:37 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'm not sure (0+ / 0-)

          to what yiou refer when you speak of my diary seeming to have the feel of "making a point"? Can you be just a bit more specific, so that I might respond?

          I mean, the point of the diary is to write down my own opinion of the matter as it currently stands. That is a point I'd like clearly made, if for none but myself.

          If, on the other hand, you are referring to the diary as feeling as if someone needs to make a "point" about the decades of sexual predation under the eyes of, and with the implicit (or explicit, in some cases) approval of the administration and leadership of the University TO the University and it's several communities, I would agree with you; that IS a purpose, I suppose. It is surely what I would use as talking "points" were I offered the opportunity to speak with the University's leadership and administration. There is no doubt of that, in my mind.

          To that degree (specifically) I believe that it is a "point" which should be made clear to PSU, and to all institutions who receive public dollars, or even private dollars in fact. That includes even non-education institutions as well. As Sir Winston so notably pointed out: "There are certain things, up with which I shall not put."

          I see certain clear, voluntary paths the University could, and in my opinion should immediately take. These are, to my thinking, the easier of the available options...for all concerned.

          But I also see several difficult, involuntary paths the University could take, as well. As I state in my opinion, I believe the University has, again through its administration and leadership chosen such a path. I disagree with that path entirely. It wasn't until I saw evidence of the path chosen that my opinion really became crystallized into words, seeking form.

          If, however, what you mean is that you get a feeling that my diary is expressing "a point" for the purpose of warning others, solely for the point of making an example out of PSU, for instance?

          I would say to you that it is PSU who has attempted the example-making here. It is an example which I cannot accomodate to my thinking. Ergo, opinion. It is PSU who is, in my opinion, creating fewer and fewer alternatives to being made an example of. That is on PSU, not me. This should already be a sufficiently worrisome cautionary tale, for all concerned. The mere idea that PSU would heap it's guilt upon a dead man, expecting to walk away from it's institutional, professional, and community obligations leads me closer to the idea that perhaps they should be made an example of. If, for no other reason, the fact that this group of administrators and leaders haven't got the first clue as to how much this poor example will follow this university, or for how long. While they, too may be considering, inside the Faculty Club, this to be a "Football matter", nothing could be further from the truth.

          No, I do not want PSU punished for the purpose of making a point, to anyone. Nor do I think they should be excessively punished for the sole purpose of being made an example.

          There is, in my opinion, no need. Given their behavior throughout the decades of this horrific tragedy, even as late as this morning? I think PSU is providing all the necessary impetus for that reality all by themselves.

          I wish they wouldn't. I believe they will, and they will never recover from their poor decisions. More's the pity. But, that's just my opinion.

          Nurse Kelley says my writing is brilliant and my soul is shiny - who am I to argue?
          Left/Right: -7.75
          Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51

          by Bud Fields on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 06:40:41 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  There are some things that are just practical (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        taffers, Cali Scribe, Bud Fields


        1. Gov. Corbett will do absolutely nothing with this.
        2. Companies and graduate schools will not see PSU degrees in any different light than they ever have.
        3. I don't understand your paragraph about the academic depts. and don't understand how they are complicit.

        I, better than most, understand the reign of JoePa.  I live in PA and two of my sons went to PSU.  Neither they nor I have the slightest interest in football.  You are right about everyone abdicating power to JoePa.  I'm not sure that makes academic depts. complicit since they had no power is this arena to abdicate.

        I'm all for the admins., athletic dept., board of trustees, etc. paying the full price for their criminal and worse than criminal behavior.

        Cats are better than therapy, and I'm a therapist.

        by Smoh on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 02:29:18 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I've read quite a few opinions to the effect that (6+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    taffers, Bud Fields, jrooth, Smoh, leu2500, a2nite

    Penn State's football program needs to be terminated.  I hate football (please, please don't stone me) and I was molested and I couldn't disagree more.

    I believe that the idea that putting this emphasis on the football program misses the mark at least as much as trying to limit the blame to Paterno or Curly or Spanier.  It provides an easy answer, one that some people think will provide some kind of emotional closure, but that will do nothing of the kind.

    This happening was not because of a football program - that just happened to be the vehicle THIS TIME.  Instead, it's the lack of concern for children, the arrogance of power, the greed for power and prestige, the failure of those in authority and responsibility to properly execute their duties, and each of our desires to create heros that we then fail to question.  That covers so. much. more. than a football program.  It happens over and over gain, in venue after venue.  And that's what's got to be faced and dealt with.

    That's not something nearly as easy to deal with as getting upset with A football program and thinking that punishing that program and all those involved in it that had virtually nothing to do with what happened.  This is a societal problem we need to deal with.  It  not something that will be fixed or even improved by shutting down PSU's football program.  That is, in my opinion, an emotionally easy fix, but one that doesn't do anything, not one iota, to prevent this kind of thing from happening  again and again and again all over this country.

    "If you trust you are not critical; if you are critical you do not trust" by our own Dauphin

    by gustynpip on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 01:32:11 PM PDT

    •  Great comment. Thank you. (0+ / 0-)

      If you will read the diary, you will see that my entire opinion is one which does not either lay the blame for this outrage upon the football program, or those associated with it, per se.

      I agree with you, particularly when you say that the football program was a vehicle. But, a vehicle carrying whom to what?

      It is the University itself which is the subject of my opinion. It is the university which hopped into the car, threw the keys to a willing driver intent upon taking the University to a place it would not willingly have gone to. Once the destination was known,  it was the University which suggested a drive-through liquor store for a case, and the road party went on. And on. "I didn't know." Not only is it insufficient to mitigate the reality. It is also a lie.

      I also happen to disagree with your posit that this is an "emotionally easy fix".  It certainly is not, for reasons that can be plainly seen in these comments. It is horrific as a solution, and one which need not happen. Yet, it is the University who is declaring themselves exempt, or ineligible (sorry, hadda do it! :) ) in this case.

      I'm just calling "shens" on them. If the community must suffer, let their suffering be specific, and reasonably measured. Then, like some would say of criminals, because in my view that is precisely what the administration and leadership of Pennsylvania State University specifically are. Let them be adjudicated fairly and properly, and serve whatever sentence may be imposed either voluntarily or involuntarily. Then, give them the opportunity to  prove their rights to citizenship again and, perhaps, even the right to vote on their own destiny again. If, of course, they pass the test.

      Nurse Kelley says my writing is brilliant and my soul is shiny - who am I to argue?
      Left/Right: -7.75
      Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51

      by Bud Fields on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 01:58:18 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Whether you focus on the football program or the (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Bud Fields

        university, my position continues to be the same.  It's too narrow of a focus.  This kind of thing is happening elsewhere.  Right now.  As we type.  There are kids who are being molested.  There are adults who know these kids are being molested and they're doing nothing.  They're doing nothing because they don't care enough, because they don't want to rock their own safe boat, because they don't want to ruin the reputation of a "good" man, because it might interfere with their own lives and goals.  And unless we focus on and address those underlying reasons in a serious way, it simply becomes about our own emotions.  It does nothing for the kids this is happening to and will happen to.

        I sincerely empathize with those who feel such strong anger and disgust at those individuals who participated in perpetrating this horror that they want to lash out at the entity that employed them.  However, I also sincerely believe that employing energy and effort now directed against PSU would be more effective in actually protecting kids if the focus was on the societal attitudes that are allowing this to continue happening all over the place.

        And I sincerely believe that the most effective way to do this is to focus on the individuals who participated in the cover up.  Not the institution.  Who really cares if the institution they work for becomes embarrassed or harmed in some way?  Oh, maybe a little, but not enough to risk their own goals and future.  But if they themselves will be reviled, despised, spat upon if they fail to act to protect children.  We need every person in this country terrified that if they don't report inappropriate behavior, they'll be destroyed.  We need to destroy Spanier, Curley, Paterno's "legacy"  and every board member and other individual who knew or should have known what was going on.  And I mean destroy to the extent that no one would ever want to be in their shoes.  If we instead focus on either the football program or the university, that shame is spread so wide, it becomes so thin, it's meaningless for the individuals.  I think it's a real mistake to take attention away from the individuals involved in this horror and turning it to the organization.

        "If you trust you are not critical; if you are critical you do not trust" by our own Dauphin

        by gustynpip on Tue Jul 17, 2012 at 05:38:45 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I agree with your thesis. (0+ / 0-)

          I agree with you. Sandusky is in jail, and very likely to face additional court "face time". Curly and Spanier are also looking for some prosecution.

          As my opinion states, I am only on one side of this issue. The children's side. I am not looking, nor do I believe are they, for some kind of re-start of their lives. They understand the problem much too well. They know there is no such thing for them.

          What can, and must however, re-start, is the national conversation about what Child Sexual Abuse actually is, how it happens, and who is ultimately responsible for it happening.

          The questions are very difficult ones. They are not difficult to ask. It is the answers to those questions which are so very difficult to accept.

          This is an opinion before those necessary discussions begin, written with a single purpose in mind: The Children.

          What I write here, perhaps much more poorly than some of the amazing comments I read here, is my feelings about what has happened from a child of the silence point of view. Because I am one. I am not one of PSU's or Sandusky's. But I am a survivor of CSA, and of a serial rapist. I am a survivor of an enabling society who seems to believe that one man's lasting legacy trumps my right to exist safely. Or that one institution has more rights of protection or privacy than I.

          PSU should be the focus, because that is where the understandable reality is in this conversation. Looking at the comments, one important result of this diary is that we can see just how difficult these conversations are going to necessarily be. I appreciate every comment received in this diary if, for no other reason, that reason alone. It very clearly illustrates and indicates just how difficult it is going to be to hear, recognize, absorb, and integrate the children of the silence, the children of the shadows into this converstion no matter where they exist, no matter who, or the support organization of, the perpetrator. This is a simple example.

          The reality is, if we would dare but look at it, much, much worse.

          Especially for the children.

          Nurse Kelley says my writing is brilliant and my soul is shiny - who am I to argue?
          Left/Right: -7.75
          Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51

          by Bud Fields on Tue Jul 17, 2012 at 05:24:39 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Good point. Penn State's next accredidation (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Smoh, Bud Fields, Mannie

      is going to be interesting.  This rarely gets mentioned, but covering up sexual crimes against kids? I think it will generate some interest.  

      Republicans: if they only had a heart.

      by leu2500 on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 03:00:50 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  What would be the deterrent value? Stopping (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Bud Fields, IARXPHD, Smoh

    homosexual/heterosexual child predators? Check--child predators are always shown to be dissuaded from preying on their victims when their fav team is banned. Stopping football coaches from covering up illegal behavior by assistant coaches? Doubt it. This is way beyond the pay grade of the NCAA. Let the justice system run its course and levy criminal and civil penalties. Had these employees been hospital workers and administrators instead of university administrators and athletic department personnel , would you ban the hospital from taking new patients?

    "If the past sits in judgment on the present, the future will be lost." Winston Churchill

    by Kvetchnrelease on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 01:38:50 PM PDT

    •  I do love your moniker! :) (0+ / 0-)

      Deterrent value to whom?

      In this opinion, the deterrent value is specifically limited to the guilty. If they, and others of their ilk (University Administration and Leadership) recognize that theirs in a non-negotiable trust that must withstand any scrutiny, and they deter anyone from allowing the trust to be breached, regardless of position, funding capability or public face? That will be sufficient.

      But that will only happen when it is those same Administrators and leaders who must face the innocents among them, and accept not only the responsibility but the accountability for what they have allowed, for decades, to exist in their midst. Not every University. This one. Not every athletic program. This one.

      That will be deterrent enough for me. And, maybe even enough for that roster of hidden children who have accepted blame that should not be theirs, and responsibility for a situation they neither created, controlled, nor ever wished to be a part of.

      Nurse Kelley says my writing is brilliant and my soul is shiny - who am I to argue?
      Left/Right: -7.75
      Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51

      by Bud Fields on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 02:03:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I would also add, in reference (0+ / 0-)

        to your hospital illustration:

        If it was the administration who was knowingly putting the lives of its patience in harm's way by admitting them?

        Surely, I would encourage them to remediate to the lowest common reasonable denominator--voluntarily and immediately. If they did not, the accrediting agencies, participating partnerships, and the law should do all they can to protect the citizens who frequent that hospital. Yes. Even to shut it down, if necessary.

        It does, eventually, happen to some institutions like, for instance, Nursing Homes, all the time. For precisely the same reason.

        If you are safer by not being there, don't go there. If your community is not safer by having them there, dislocate them from your community. It works for institutions, corporations, and people, my friend. It's really a terribly simple proposition.

        Is this who we are?

        Is this who we want or need to be?

        How do we get from where we are, to where we want to be, and why bother making the trip?

        What will we gain from the journey? What will the journey cost?

        How will we know when we get to where we intend to go?

        Nurse Kelley says my writing is brilliant and my soul is shiny - who am I to argue?
        Left/Right: -7.75
        Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51

        by Bud Fields on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 06:51:08 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Hell, why not just close the whole school down... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Bud Fields, jrooth, Smoh

    Hold those accountable that are accountable and insist measures are adopted to ensure this never happens again.  

    It is a mistake to see this as a football scandal.  This was a human failure by, at minimum, 5 men (including McQueary).  Although, I'm beginning to think the legal council provided by Baldwin played a large role in this tragedy.  She needs to be further investigated along with the previous legal councelor.

    Respectfully, I think shutting down the football program would only make people miss why this really happened.

    •  I agree. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Which is why my opinion is not about the football program per se, other than locatively.

      But, not only is this a human failure, it is a complete failure on the part of the University's administration and leadership...for decades. It became "business as usual" and we see it in only one area, through one lens, using one filter. While I cannot imagine it, it cannot be completely dismissed that this failure extends well beyond one University activity. That is the lingering doubt that will forever taint this vaunted (and, for the most part I would submit) worthy institution.

      Leadership. It's required. Here. Now.

      I do believe That Baldwin deserves a very close look, as well. I happen to agree with you regarding the shutting down of the football program, entirely. However, I believe that might well be a suitable alternative to those who do not wish to be held responsible or accountable at the administration/leadership level of the University. Especially if their jobs are on the line, and the future ghosts of PSU are seen in their company.

      Nurse Kelley says my writing is brilliant and my soul is shiny - who am I to argue?
      Left/Right: -7.75
      Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51

      by Bud Fields on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 02:09:18 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  This is not what I took away from your diary. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        taffers, Bud Fields

        Maybe I missed something between the lines.  What I took away was that down to the janitors everyone should pay for the abhorrent behavior of football personnel, admins., board, etc. by shutting down everything.  I'll grant you that I had difficulty following your writing style.

        Cats are better than therapy, and I'm a therapist.

        by Smoh on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 02:52:57 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Well, I'm sorry to hear that. (0+ / 0-)

          That is neither what I said, nor what I meant to be heard.

          There are levels in my opinion. My "superior" level is that the University should immediately and voluntarily shut down it's athletic programs. The administration and leadership of the University should be replaced, down to whatever level is required to effect absolute change in culture at PSU forever.

          This is one option. Should they fail, as I read their indications from today, to believe they should do so, in my opinion they should be required to do so.

          I know of many parents of PSU. I know of many students of PSU. Same goes for faculty, staff, and administration. I know of many athletes of PSU. I know of parents who have told their children, or grandchildren they will not permit them to attend PSU in the future.

          But, I also know of parents in and around Happy Valley who tonight are thankful that their children did not attend a Summer Sports Camp at PSU. I know of LEO's who simply cannot believe this "crap" actually got any airing at all. The list grows with each passing day. When will it end?

          When PSU gives it reason to. Not one second before, no matter what NCAA, the State Government, the legal system, or the public press have to say about it.

          I sincerely hope that PSU will accept it's responsibility, and do that. Really, I do. I just see evidence before me, which I have shared in this diary, which leads me to believe otherwise. And, after all,

          It was only a few kids, right?

          Unless one of those children is you. Or your child. Or a member of your family. Then, NIMBY takes on a hellish, freaky sound.

          Nurse Kelley says my writing is brilliant and my soul is shiny - who am I to argue?
          Left/Right: -7.75
          Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51

          by Bud Fields on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 07:03:34 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Death penalty just for football is not enough, (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Bud Fields, leu2500, Mannie

    If one blieves Vicky triponey! Former VP for student affairs, and I do.  The entire athletic department needs a two-year shutdown.  The football program operated outside of instructional control for decades, and this sickness had spread to other sports.  This kind o behavior shoul even jeopardize the university's accreditation.

    So I see only tatters of clearness through a pervading obscurity - Annie Dillard -6.88, -5.33

    by illinifan17 on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 01:42:09 PM PDT

    •  And the English Department too, (0+ / 0-)

      I'm sure a professor looked at girls boobs too long once last year too, it's the fault of the football program.

      WTF!?!?!?! When did I move to the Republic of Gilead?!

      by IARXPHD on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 01:47:06 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I do understand that you disagree with (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Cali Scribe

        my opinion. I get that.

        If the English Department Dean knows that a faculty member is acting inappropriately towards students, regardless of their sexual identity, you can bet your last bippy I believe he/she had very well better do something about it.

        And, if they do not, then the College of Arts and Sciences Dean had certainly better. If not,

        Then superiority continues it's reign until the problem is completely dealt with. For that, you see, is the goal.

        "When you are up to your ass in alligators, it is sometimes difficult to remember that your original intent was to drain the swamp."

        Of course, if you drain the swamp before the alligators ariive....:)

        Nurse Kelley says my writing is brilliant and my soul is shiny - who am I to argue?
        Left/Right: -7.75
        Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51

        by Bud Fields on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 02:15:55 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It happens, without a doubt. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Bud Fields, Smoh

          I've been on disciplinary panels about it. And no, we didn't shut down the entire department.

          WTF!?!?!?! When did I move to the Republic of Gilead?!

          by IARXPHD on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 02:22:41 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  So have I. (0+ / 0-)

            And, in one instance, we did in effect "shut down" an entire department over it, with the removal of every single involved party to the actions necessitating our response. As it turned out, that involved the entire staff of the department. In less than three weeks, however, replacements (better than what they replaced too, incidentally) picked up, for the right reasons, and what could have been a smoking hole was a very high integrity, purpose driven department that added then, and now, to the overall reputation and value of the institution.

            We did that because that is what our administration and leadership expected us to do. That is, to me, just a universe's worth of space in difference to what PSU has displayed. That is where my anger, frustration, and very, very deep sadness comes from. That we were willing to do so had a lot to do with the outcome. Our intent was to solve a scandalous problem within the confines of the originating source, but we had the unmitigated, unflinching and very public support of our employers. It was not just and only what we believed we should do. It was a (extremely!) happy circumstance that those who entrusted us to do it fully expected us to do it, the right way, for the right reasons, no matter what.

            That is awesomely empowering, especially when the "moral stance" of such an institution depended on us. We lived up to everything our institution stood for. I don't know what happened to those who were replaced. I just know that I never had to look over my shoulder about the decisions made or actions taken. Ever.

            Would that it could be said for PSU, as well. In my heart, I do truly hope someday it will be said of that institution as well. Again. It was once, you know. So hard earned, so easily broken.

            Nurse Kelley says my writing is brilliant and my soul is shiny - who am I to argue?
            Left/Right: -7.75
            Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51

            by Bud Fields on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 02:36:09 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  I agree (0+ / 0-)

      And, fwiw, I do believe Vicky Triponey. However, I look at this from an administrator's viewpoint. Very rarely is it true that the only way to help a patient live is by killing it, but there are conditions and situations where the memories are preferable to the realities.

      Removing a limb is a superior choice, when saving a life in hanging in the balance. If the patient refuses....

      Decision versus default. Life is like that. And, sometimes irony IS ironic.

      Nurse Kelley says my writing is brilliant and my soul is shiny - who am I to argue?
      Left/Right: -7.75
      Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51

      by Bud Fields on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 02:12:13 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Unfortunately, if there's any institution in this (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Bud Fields, Kvetchnrelease, Smoh

    country more corrupt than PSU football, it's the NCAA!


    •  Can't hold a candle to the Catholic Church or the (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Roadbed Guy, Smoh, Bud Fields

      Florida GOP as corrupt organizations.

      WTF!?!?!?! When did I move to the Republic of Gilead?!

      by IARXPHD on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 02:03:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  OK, that's some food for thought (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Bud Fields

        but to make sense of this, I suppose that one needs to couple the relativel power/influence of the organization with the purported corruption.

        For example, the Catholic Church and NCAA both are massively corrupt and hold sway over tens of millions of people.

        By comparison, the Florida GOP and PSU, while perhaps being equally corrupt, probably have only millions of people under their veritable thumbs in this country, thus suggesting that overall that they're less corrupt.

    •  One of the things about your statement (0+ / 0-)

      is that, while we do not have empirical evidence to support the notion that the NCAA is toxic to athletics, (and while their is certainly much more than sufficient circumstantial evidence to support both your claim and the never-ending investigations to which NCAA constantly finds itself) we do in fact know of the corruption (at least of the moral persuasion) of Penn State in this case, and especially in light of the seeming direction the university intends to use for its escape from this morass.

      Deal with what you know. Go from known to unknown. Eat the elephant one bite at a time. Then, perhaps this malignant cancer upon the heart of every institution of higher learning can be carefully, painstakingly excised to a point where the institution of education can again educate the institution.

      Rupp used to go ape-shit crazy, stupid NUTS on his players because...of grades. Scholarships were awarded using a multitude of matrices. To Rupp, academic success was not the first importance. It was the ultimate importance. High moral integrity,academic achievement, and future contributions to society based upon what is right were those things which got students onto the basketball floor at Memorial Gym. If those qualities, or the intent to achieve them were not present in players; i.e. players wanted a ride to the "bigs", they did it somewhere else.

      Rupp took unending hell for that. For, as it turned out, several national championships.

      In my personal opinion, that's not such a bad legacy to leave.

      Nurse Kelley says my writing is brilliant and my soul is shiny - who am I to argue?
      Left/Right: -7.75
      Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51

      by Bud Fields on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 02:25:37 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  But Rupp was an overt racist... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Smoh, Bud Fields

        that will always be his lasting legacy. Your example shows that for even men like Paterno, with all the good they may have done, we will always be remembered by the decisions we made when no one was watching.

        •  I agree with you. (0+ / 0-)

          For what the public heard, there are those who heard much, much more. And much, much worse from and about Rupp and his "overt racism", as you stated.

          Integrity matters. Always. Always. Even large men and women have moments when they forget that they are the example. It's a curse of success. They sometimes, or even often fail. This is very true.

          Even when they pay an exorbitantly high penalty, for many it is never enough to invoke forgiveness. Like with Rupp at UK, SMU and others, forever may not be long enough.

          Sometimes, it is those very failures, however, which remind us that we, too are accountable, responsible. What we do with that knowledge matters, too. Sometimes, even more.

          Judgment is best left, I find, to those best qualified to give it. It is a handy parlour game, and sometimes institutions (or nations) write their future history based upon it. Sometimes, not. It is that hope that keeps us struggling to be better, to do better. It's what makes us fallible, completely human. We do the best we can with what we have? Yay, us!

          We must, however, at some definable moment, determine our answer to the question. Let's always hope that, for ourwelves, the question is one which will judge us kindly. :)

          Nurse Kelley says my writing is brilliant and my soul is shiny - who am I to argue?
          Left/Right: -7.75
          Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51

          by Bud Fields on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 02:47:17 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You are confusing me... (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Smoh, Bud Fields

            With Rupp, the lesson is to "learn from his racism".  But with Penn State, its "shut it down".

            Rupp, for all of his "good qualities" chose to hate others because of the color of their skin.  He was a racist.  How could he ever be capable of teaching young men about integrity.

             I have ever met a racist who had integrity.  The names he chose to call black men and women; the fact that he would not recruit black ball players; and the fact that he was responsible for "molding" young men, tell me he had 0 integrity.

            •  Well, as you may well imagine (0+ / 0-)

              As has been said, there are strengths and weaknesses to all men. Referencing Rupp, I did so from a viewpoint of the man I knew and admired, in the position that he held within the UK Athletic programs, and in my life.

              I heard many long-winded diatribes about not recruiting out of state, too. But, the acknowledgement made about his racism happened outside, away from, and quite frankly (to me, at least) after that time.

              There is a fair statement you do make. Having no integrity once any failing is found. I do not, however believe that the presence of one automatically invalidates the other. With Rupp, it was personal. For instance, when I learned of his racism, I was shaken to my core. I discussed it with my Father, another UK alum who played for that "other" coach, Paul Bryant on the UK football team. (What a stacked deck, huh!)

              Without comment to me, or to anyone I knew, he cancelled every single affiliation with the University he had ever had, and refused to acknowledge Rupp ever again. He didn't do that because that reality bothered me. He did that personally, privately, and absolutely because that reality offended him.

              What I lost for Rupp, I gained for my father...and myself. Perhaps the most important thing I learned was that integrity comes with a cost, a very personal cost. What he never had, I gained in ways he could never imagine. In fact, my Father and I didn't even speak of this until many, many years later. He spoke of my integrity. I spoke of his. Neither of us spoke of Rupp again.

              So, Rupp gave me a lesson in something that he himself had taught me was of great value. It came at a considerable cost to me, but it was a lesson well worth the learning, I think. Good things can come from bad situations, if we do what is necessary first to understand and grasp them.

              Nurse Kelley says my writing is brilliant and my soul is shiny - who am I to argue?
              Left/Right: -7.75
              Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51

              by Bud Fields on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 03:38:39 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  And it's disappointing to me that you would (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Smoh, Bud Fields

          use Rupp as a example of integrity, since you seem to know about him as well as you do.

      •  Unfortunately, I don't know (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Bud Fields, Smoh

        if the New Yorker article referred to at this link is available in its entire form online (I"m an old fashioned subscriber to the paper version of the magazine) - but if it were I suspect that you'd be just a tad more reticent in saying

        while we do not have empirical evidence to support the notion that the NCAA is toxic to athletics
  •  What were the NCAA rules violations? (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    taffers, Smoh, Bud Fields, IARXPHD

    Don't get me wrong.  The behavior of Joe Paterno and everyone in the administration who knew and covered it up - was despicable.  I hope the victims and their families sue them as individuals and the university as an institution and win abso-fuckin-lutetely gigantic punitive damages.  I hope those guys never get a job with more responsibility than urinal cleaner ever again.

    But the NCAA process is about the NCAA rules.  So specifically which NCAA rules were violated that warrant the NCAA penalizing the program?

    “What’s the use of having developed a science well enough to make predictions if, in the end, all we’re willing to do is stand around and wait for them to come true?” - Sherwood Rowland

    by jrooth on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 02:11:40 PM PDT

    •  Exactly the point.... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jrooth, Smoh, Bud Fields

      This was not a "football" scandal.  This was a human failure by so called "leaders", who didn't want to deal with the fact that they had employed and befriended a man for over 30 years who was a pedophile.  That he was a football coach is irrelevant.  He was a monster.

      I think the lesson is (once again), that monsters take on all shapes and sizes. It is up to us as adults to protect all children, and to place our ego's, concerns and priorities to come second to protecting children.

      I also believe these calls to shut down football will cause others to react negatively and protectively of everything at Penn State.  Everyone now realizes how horrible these events were.  Keep the focus and lessons on the events and people responsible.

      •  taffers (0+ / 0-)

        We are much more in agreement than disagreement. One point of my disagreement is that everyone does NOT know, or realize how horrible these events were. I'm not saying that as a  survivor of CSA.

        The statement you make comes to me as if it is enough to hang it on Joe, or the Athletic Department. It is not enough. It was the University who failed here. It is the University who does not "get it". They must. Or we all, every one of us, suffer.

        Nurse Kelley says my writing is brilliant and my soul is shiny - who am I to argue?
        Left/Right: -7.75
        Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51

        by Bud Fields on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 02:53:14 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I think you can begin with (0+ / 0-)

      rules regarding moral turpitude, and go from there.

      Nurse Kelley says my writing is brilliant and my soul is shiny - who am I to argue?
      Left/Right: -7.75
      Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51

      by Bud Fields on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 02:49:46 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The diary, and my opinion in it (0+ / 0-)

    is not about Joe Paterno, or Adolph Rupp. They are examples used to explain what I believe to be a greater, superior point, and nothing more.

    The diary, and my opinion IS about the accountability, responsibility and prospective punishments of an institution, it's administration and leadership. It is also about the horrific price innocents pay for the self-aggrandizement of others (Rupp, Paterno being mere examples), and what can sometimes come to the good from going through the fires or reconciliation.

    First, there must be an intent to do so. This is what I address, I think, specifically. So far, as of today at least, I have seen no such intent, or willingness to even entertain the notion of a concept of discussing such an intent. That is the basis of my opinion.

    Nurse Kelley says my writing is brilliant and my soul is shiny - who am I to argue?
    Left/Right: -7.75
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51

    by Bud Fields on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 03:45:27 PM PDT

    •  The problem with your Rupp reference, however, (0+ / 0-)

      is that you used him as an example of someone with integrity.  I do not wish to highjack your diary, but I could not allow that man (Rupp) to be held up as an example of someone who had high morals or integrity.

      I will stop commenting about it, if you will stop invoking his name in a positive light.

  •  I generally agree with you (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Bud Fields

    ...but not with your specific language:

    Yes, innocent students will be harmed. Yes, the Pennsylvania State University will suffer the sorrows of its own design. As the design was instigated, and promulgated under the illusion of willful yet innocent ignorance, so does, as it inevitably does, the punishment also include absolute punishment for THAT offense, as well. Not only what you did is prosecuted, you see. What you did not do is also punishable.
    If the NCAA bars Penn State from participation, it isn't "punishment," any more than it is punishment for a program to lose its accreditation.  Rather, it's a simple matter of an academic program failing to meet the minimum standards for inclusion.

    I think that regarding the penalty as "punishment" just plays into the hands of people who would consider it unnecessary, disproportionate or unfair.  In reality, what happens to Penn State would not be punitive, but a simple enforcement of standards.

    My head says "No" but my heart says "Yes". And then my liver says "What?" and my butt's all like "Farrrrrrt" --jbou

    by Caj on Tue Jul 17, 2012 at 07:43:59 AM PDT

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