This was so indicative of what we have to deal with that I just had to share. A Facebook friend posted this quote from George Washington:
I am sure the mass of citizens in these United States mean well, and I firmly believe they will always act well whenever they can obtain a right understanding of matters; but in some parts of the Union, where the sentiments of their delegates and leaders are adverse to the government and great pains are taken to inculcate a belief that their rights are assailed and their liberties endangered, it is not easy to accomplish this; especially as is the case invariably when the inventors and abettors of pernicious measures use infinitely more industry in disseminating the poison than the well-disposed part of the community in furnishing the antidote.
When I first read it I said to myself, "oooh, this is complicated... too bad because the very people that need to get it won't."
I was right; the conversation that ensued is below the fold (names omitted to protect the stoopid).
[teabagger]
Love it...brilliant! The Founding Fathers ALL believed in a small Federal Gov't , to protect it's citizens rights! The larger the gov't and its spending), the less human rights we have. Any exceptions to that rule anyone ~ China , Russian, Iran, Korean? The solution is to take good points from all areas of life and fuse them into a workable solution like "Sustainable Capitalism"! And if you an environmentalist you should NOT want big govt: http://www.againstcronycapitalism.org/...
[me]
Um, I think you totally missed the point. "...but in some parts of the Union, where the sentiments of their delegates and leaders are adverse to the government and great pains are taken to inculcate a belief that their rights are assailed and their liberties endangered" Washington is saying here that when leaders express themselves as being against the government, it keeps the people from obtaining a "right understanding of matters". More colloquially, in remote areas of the country where teabagging politicians are telling the people that "gubmint is bad", the people have a much tougher time of understanding the way the country works.
Funny, when I first read this I said to myself "wow, this is a little complex - the people that need to get it probably won't". Guess I was right. Read the words, let them sink in... you fixated on "rights being assailed and liberties endangered" - since that there is Tea Party talk, you automatically assumed that's what George was saying. He's not. He's saying just the opposite. Government is not bad; do you honestly think the founders would have dedicated their lives to creating something that they feared and despised?
Please, just slow down and think about it longer than 10 seconds. He's not speaking Chinese, for pete's sake.
[teabagger]
Good points Laurie, but got it the first time! ;-) GW points can be taken two ways depending upon which side of the equation your on. The GW's statement is being used as a clever way of implicating groups like the Tea Party without really say it --pretty clever, but not truthful. Laurie, did our founding Fathers want a massive Federal Gov't that effects every element of your life or a small one with limited powers? Simple question. And did they want the people to stand up against Federal Govt, if that gov't tried to over-reach?
[teabagger] [again]
"Those are governed best who are governed least."
-- Thomas Jefferson
"Government is not reason, nor eloquence. It is force. And like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearsome master."
-- George Washington
"I heartily endorse the motto, 'That government is best which governs least'; and I should like to see it acted up to more rapidly and systematically."
-- Henry David Thoreau
[me]
I think they wanted a federal government, because they created one. And they made VERY clear, in the preamble of the constitution, what they wanted that government to do: "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
So to translate this for you, the duties of government are as follows:
1. Establish Justice
2. Establish Law & Order (domestic tranquility)
3. Defend the country against external threats
4. PROMOTE THE GENERAL WELFARE
5. Protect our freedom and that of future generations
So what in there says "the federal government shouldn't do anything"? Nowhere, is where. Promote the general welfare is pretty broad; that can include building infrastructure, providing free health care, making sure that people can be clothed, housed and fed, free education.... I could go on. You guys always seem to forget that one, and for some stupid reason you think that somehow providing for the general welfare takes away your freedomz and stuff.
WRONG. Giving every American a fair, equal start in life, taxing the rich to keep them from turning into an aristocracy, and making sure that no one dies simply because they don't pull in six figures is NOT going to make you less free. That is just plain stupid. These things would make all of us more free, and would give us a stronger country to boot.
I'm sick and tired of you free-market folks confusing greed for freedom, and putting words into the mouths of our founding fathers like they were all disciples of Milton Friedman and Ayn Rand or something. That is bullshit. Why is it that to argue my point all I have to do is repeat verbatim what was said, while the teabaggers are spinning, reading between the lines, making things up out of whole cloth, finding some obscure and rather dubious letter to someone's mother -- talking more about what the founders "intended" instead of what they ACTUALLY FUCKING WROTE?? Why? BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T SAY IT. NEVER. ANYWHERE. Read. The. Constitution. Simple.
[me] [again]
And your quotes are a dime a dozen. I can find just as many, from the same people (including the rather long and OBVIOUS one that Charlie posted, spurring this whole stupid discussion because you totally missed Washington's point). The ONLY document that matters is the Constitution. And in the fucking INTRODUCTION it states quite clearly what the government is supposed to do. It is not the "states'" constitution, it is the FEDERAL constitution.
Suck it up.
I just had to share because I couldn't believe what I was reading. This "but it could be taken two ways" thing is what's killing us. It's like their eyes are scanning the words, but they're hearing Steve King and Rush and Hannity. So freaking frustrating!!!!