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CBS Sports' Dennis Dodd has learned that the NCAA will impose major sanctions on Penn State at 9 am Eastern tomorrow morning.  According to multiple sources, while the NCAA won't impose a death penalty--as many people, including some here, have called for--the sanctions will be severe enough to hamstring the Nittany Lions for a long time.

There are indications that the penalties could be so unique and severe they would be different than any previously applied by the NCAA.

CBSSports.com has also learned that the penalties could last beyond one season. The NCAA on Sunday said that it will levy “corrective and punitive actions” against the school. A person with knowledge of the process said there is a way to impact Penn State's competitive ability in football without applying the so-called “death penalty.” That term could be mere semantics by the time the NCAA sanctions are announced according to a source. Penn State, the source said, may prefer the death penalty.

What will those penalties likely be?  According to ESPN's Joe Schad, the NCAA will likely strip Penn State of multiple scholarships and remove the Nittany Lions from bowl consideration for at least two years.  Schad also reports that the NCAA has apparently granted Mark Emmert the power to deal with this through nontraditional methods, given the unprecedented nature of the case.  

Additionally, Penn State as an institution is likely to face significant punishment--something that has never been imposed before.   My hunch is that athletic director Tim Curley will likely face "show-cause penalty, which will likely have the effect of blackballing Curley from ever working in collegiate athletics for a long time, if not forever.  Additionally, it's very likely that the NCAA will order Penn State to disassociate itself from Curley, former president Graham Spanier and multiple others.

I have to say, this comes as a surprise.  I thought the NCAA would drop the hammer on Penn State for what appears to be the definition of a lack of institutional control.  After all, it looks like when Sandusky was caught molesting a boy in a shower back in 2001, it wasn't reported to police after Curley consulted with late head coach Joe Paterno.  However, past precedent indicated the NCAA would wait until the federal criminal probe and the Department of Education's investigation into Clery Act violations wrapped up.  

But apparently the NCAA has found something so egregious that it felt it had to act, but not egregious enough to warrant a death penalty.  And as any college football fan knows, taking away multiple scholarships can be a pretty severe penalty in the long run.  There have been a lot of cases over the years where a program has lost so many scholarships that it has taken a decade or more to recover.

It'll be mighty interesting to find out what made them pull the trigger so quickly.

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Comment Preferences

  •  We await the details (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mannie, Smoh, jayden

    It is unfortunate that athletes who committed to Penn State wil suffer because of the actions (or inactions) of people who are no longer associated with Penn State.

    On the other hand, I can't imagine that I will find any announced penalty as being too severe.

    •  Let athletes transfer (15+ / 0-)

      They should allow all the athletes to transfer to other colleges, play immediately, and the transferees do not count against those school's scholarship limits.

    •  it's unfortunate (8+ / 0-)

      that they committed to a program and school led by people who enabled a child rapist. they can transfer, without penalty.

      The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

      by Laurence Lewis on Sun Jul 22, 2012 at 01:36:39 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  LL - while football players could transfer (0+ / 0-)

        without the penalty of missing a year of football transferring is highly disruptive for a college football player. I never thought a death penalty would be imposed and if reports are true I am pleased that Penn State will be playing football this fall. My guess is that the NCAA was also considering the fact that varsity football revenues support fifteen more men and women's varsity sports. Who would have funded those programs?

        "let's talk about that"

        by VClib on Sun Jul 22, 2012 at 07:09:51 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  College should be for... (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cotterperson, little lion, trevzb, debedb

      ...education not athletics.  If the professional sports leagues want a minor league let them set up and pay for one.  Like baseball does.

      We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

      by delver rootnose on Sun Jul 22, 2012 at 01:38:48 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  College athletics... (5+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Nedsdag, ebohlman, VClib, erush1345, taffers

        is an American tradition.  The vast majority of college athletes, including football players, do not go on to play professionally.  Those that do get so much publicity that it just seems like college football is a "minor league" for the NFL.  It's not.

        Throwing the baby out with the bath water serves nobody.

        •  So we just look the other way... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          cotterperson, little lion

          ...because it is an 'american tradition'

          Oh and in this case the 'bath water' is a shitload of money.

          We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

          by delver rootnose on Sun Jul 22, 2012 at 01:47:03 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  No, you don't. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            erush1345

            What you do is take action to make sure no future university staff will do what Paterno and crew allegedly did...cover up a crime.  You don't punish all of college football, or college sports in general.  College football isn't the problem here, the greed and selfishness of the Penn State Athletic Dept and the University senior staff is.

            One thing that every university can do, right now, is to ban all minors from athletic facilities.  No exceptions.  Another thing they could do is take a close look at the privileges granted to former coaches, which is what gave Sandusky unsupervised and unrestricted access to the athletic facility after he retired.  He also used that access to impress his young victims with his power and prestige, and convince them that he could help them become famous football players if only they did exactly what he said.

            •  Unless you separate ... (0+ / 0-)

              ...the sport from the money there is no way to get rid of the greed.  And since these institutions can't seem to do that then some else has to.  Of course that will not be the NCAA.

              We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

              by delver rootnose on Sun Jul 22, 2012 at 11:54:52 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  This is America. (0+ / 0-)

                Separating anything from money is virtually impossible.  Even more so when we're talking about one of the most popular sports systems in the United States.  But thats not a bad thing.  Taking the money out of college football would not prevent one child rape.  What it would do is prevent many, many young men from being able to attend college, because they couldn't get a scholarship.

                •  most of which could .. (0+ / 0-)

                  ...not pass the average entrance exam unless give special consideration for athletic ability.  Oh and why only men. Because women's sports is not important of course because nobody wants to pay to watch. /sarcasm

                  We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

                  by delver rootnose on Mon Jul 23, 2012 at 07:59:53 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

          •  Funny you should say that. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            taffers

            Where do people get the idea that athletics is not "academic" and does not belong in a college?

            The answer is:  programs like athletics, dance, and puppetry are non-traditional.  You don't learn these subjects by sitting in a lecture hall, through the usual mode of reading, writing and analytical thinking.  The learning is mostly kinesthetic and what you learn cannot be written down in a thesis.

            Since they don't have the usual trappings of traditional scholarly work, they are not considered "academic" to people with a narrow view of what the word means.  In other words, your opinion is driven by tradition as much as anyone else's.

            My head says "No" but my heart says "Yes". And then my liver says "What?" and my butt's all like "Farrrrrrt" --jbou

            by Caj on Sun Jul 22, 2012 at 07:33:56 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  asdf (0+ / 0-)
        College should be for education not athletics.
        Universities are for everything, even things you don't think are important, or subjects that you don't think constitute an "education."

        You will never see universities ditch athletics, because universities are not in the business of excluding programs or declaring that people don't belong.

        My head says "No" but my heart says "Yes". And then my liver says "What?" and my butt's all like "Farrrrrrt" --jbou

        by Caj on Sun Jul 22, 2012 at 07:26:50 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Oh BS... (0+ / 0-)

          ...they don't exclude profitable programs.  Universities ditch programs all the time, even sports programs.

          I think any program that does not , as you put it above, relate to 'reading, writing and analytical thinking' should be superfluous and only present as intermural programs.

          The first goal of the education system should be to sharpen the mind.

          We Glory in war, in the shedding of human blood. What fools we are.

          by delver rootnose on Mon Jul 23, 2012 at 12:04:04 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  asdf (0+ / 0-)
            I think any program that does not , as you put it above, relate to 'reading, writing and analytical thinking' should be superfluous and only present as intermural programs.
            So, no dance program?  No music performance?  No theater?

            I have a better idea:  why not just avoid going to a university?  You could instead go to a smaller school, like a technical institute, where all the majors are reading and writing in classrooms, free of superfluous twaddle like athletics and the arts.

            My head says "No" but my heart says "Yes". And then my liver says "What?" and my butt's all like "Farrrrrrt" --jbou

            by Caj on Mon Jul 23, 2012 at 08:37:59 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  College baseball is huge!! (0+ / 0-)

        About half the picks in the top rounds of the MLB draft are college players.

        "let's talk about that"

        by VClib on Sun Jul 22, 2012 at 09:32:41 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Are you really that naive? (4+ / 0-)
    I thought the NCAA would drop the hammer on Penn State for what appears to be the definition of a lack of institutional control
    Penn $tate is in the B1G. The B1G is bigger than the NCAA. It's all about the $$$.

    In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry, and is generally considered to have been a bad move. -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy

    by boriscleto on Sun Jul 22, 2012 at 12:17:20 PM PDT

  •  Anything less than two years will be meaningless-- (15+ / 0-)

    no matter what it is.  I'm hoping for 3 years---no scholarships, no bowls, and recommending any gate receipts go to a victim fund.  
    Additionally Penn St to have to provide easy transfers
    for all current players.

    If PSU fights it----shame on them!!

  •  Penn State also removed "the statue" (10+ / 0-)

    this morning:

    http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/...

    It says about 150 students stood around the workmen removing it and chanted "We are Penn State."

    "The difference between the right word and the almost-right word is like the difference between lightning and the lightning bug." -- Mark Twain

    by Brooke In Seattle on Sun Jul 22, 2012 at 12:20:52 PM PDT

    •  many (3+ / 0-)

      continue to excuse paterno. the shame and taint will be penn state football's defining characteristic.

      The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

      by Laurence Lewis on Sun Jul 22, 2012 at 01:39:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  They are in denial. (4+ / 0-)

        For many of these folks, it's like they found out Jesus was a fraud.

        Paterno was more than a coach to a lot of people. Right or wrong, that's the truth.

        "A lie is not the other side of a story; it's just a lie."

        by happy camper on Sun Jul 22, 2012 at 02:10:14 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  it's not "right or wrong" (5+ / 0-)

          it's the cultural rot that is responsible for this scandal. and it's why paterno's legacy must be and must be seen to be th destruction of penn state football.

          The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

          by Laurence Lewis on Sun Jul 22, 2012 at 02:40:56 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  What I mean (3+ / 0-)

            is it will take a long time for some people to accept this. Eventually, reality will out and they will realize that Paterno committed a truly horrible, criminal act.

            It's hard to accept that idols sometimes have feet of clay. As the statue comes down, and the punishment of the program takes effect, and most importantly as the criminal trials of other officials make it clear that the rot was everywhere, Paterno's supporters will face the reality that he and his cronies destroyed the program they thought they were protecting.

            But it won't happen overnight.

            "A lie is not the other side of a story; it's just a lie."

            by happy camper on Sun Jul 22, 2012 at 03:28:17 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  But many continue to believe this is a (0+ / 0-)

        "Paterno Scandal" or "PSU Scandal" only.  Even here, 99% of the comments about "correcting or fixing" how this occurred, revolve strictly around punishing everything associated with PSU football.

        If anyone believes that this all occurred because of Paterno or those at PSU, they are missing the bigger story.  

        Until those responsible for allowing Sandusky to found a Children's Charity (2nd Mile), and those responsible for allowing 20+ Foster children to be placed in his house, and those involved in the '98 investigation, and those who worked with him at 2nd Mile (suppossedly trained to protect children), and those that allowed him to prey on children for 3 yrs while being investigated (w/o any supervision) are investigated properly (and publically), nothing will change to protect children in Pa.

        Many that are not in agreement w/ how this investigation is progressing and who is being handed over as the sole reason for this tragedy, are not excusing Paterno.  I (and they) believe he is being scapegoated for the failures of many others that powerful people want to protect.

        •  I agree that Second Mile should be investigated (0+ / 0-)

          I agree with this statement:

          Until those responsible for allowing Sandusky to found a Children's Charity (2nd Mile), and those responsible for allowing 20+ Foster children to be placed in his house, and those involved in the '98 investigation, and those who worked with him at 2nd Mile (suppossedly trained to protect children), and those that allowed him to prey on children for 3 yrs while being investigated (w/o any supervision) are investigated properly (and publically), nothing will change to protect children in Pa.
          But I do not think that means Paterno and PSU are being scapegoated.  Their investigation and punishment are well deserved.  However, I would also like to see a full and complete investigation of Second Mile, as you pointed out.

          But that is not to say that PSU and those at that institution responsible for covering up Sandusky's crimes should be let off the hook.

          •  AndI do agree with you as well. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            MA Mom

            I have to be careful in how I state what i feel about this entire tragedy.  I don't want anyone to think that I don't see Paterno and PSU as culpable.  Only that there is so much more to this than just PSU football

            •  Didn't mean to put words in your mouth! (0+ / 0-)

              Sorry if that is how it came across.

              I think it is really important to keep pointing out Second Mile's part in this catastrophe, as you have done.

              •  Thank you...appreciate your point about 2nd Mile. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                MA Mom

                And, I didn't think that is what you meant.  But, I do need to show caution in how I approach this.

                People's emotions are running high, and I shouldn't feed their frustation with those that are minimizing what has occurred to these innocent children.

    •  As a friend said... (5+ / 0-)

      "They should melt down that Paterno statue and use it to reinforce Sandusky's cell bars."

  •  Unless the loss of scholarships is 85 (max) (6+ / 0-)

    not harsh enough

    Also needs a LOT more years of bowl bans, 14 at least!

    Need to dis-assosciate with Joe Paterno too

    This is just hype, the penalties won't be harsh

    The B1G needs to kick them out of their conference!

    Never underestimate stupid. Stupid is how reTHUGlicans win!

    by Mannie on Sun Jul 22, 2012 at 12:21:30 PM PDT

  •  I'm glad to see the NCAA is taking this seriously (11+ / 0-)

    Any punishments decreed will certainly be deserved.

    But I am honestly more interested in seeing whatever future criminal and civil cases come up against those at Penn State who knowingly and willingly looked the other way when they knew of Sandusky's criminal behavior.  The only way to stop future child abuse is to treat severely any who allow it to hapen on their watch.

    "Safety and security are the result of collective consensus. We owe our children, the most vulnerable citizens in our society, a life free of violence and fear." - Nelson Mandela. Donate to TREE Climbers

    by TX Freethinker on Sun Jul 22, 2012 at 12:21:37 PM PDT

  •  Pic is worth 1,000 words (15+ / 0-)

    Why penalties aren't harsh enough.  They still don't get it!

    Never underestimate stupid. Stupid is how reTHUGlicans win!

    by Mannie on Sun Jul 22, 2012 at 12:22:56 PM PDT

  •  the problem is that the program was used as a (14+ / 0-)

    shield for abuse by the perpetrator, and a justification for allowing the abuse to continue by the enablers.

    How is anything other than the DP appropriate for this?

    You have exactly 10 seconds to change that look of disgusting pity into one of enormous respect!

    by Cartoon Peril on Sun Jul 22, 2012 at 12:24:36 PM PDT

  •  The reason is the B1G (7+ / 0-)

    If they lost their football program the B1G would have to boot them -- and replace them with another school and shake up the expansion mess big time

    My opinion - they should have gotten the death penalty

    The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. --George Orwell

    by jgkojak on Sun Jul 22, 2012 at 12:28:01 PM PDT

    •  there was a rumor reported yesterday, (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cotterperson

      on espn apparently, that this is exactly what would happen if the NCAA gave the dp.  I heard it from my brother in law and couldn't confirm it last night when I got home so I don't know if it's true.  Does sound possible, though.  The B1G's been tossing out a lot of ideas, both stupid and reasonable about how to deal with the situation.

      A learning experience is one of those things that says, 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.' Douglas Adams

      by dougymi on Sun Jul 22, 2012 at 12:42:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Unfortunately, what PSU did was not directly (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mannie, Wee Mama, dizzzave, Smoh, VClib

    related to the university athletic program--that is, athletes weren't cheating, they weren't getting "paid", that sort of thing.  So I wouldn't know if a Death Penalty would apply.

    And as the NCAA is only concerned about athletics, some of the institutional malfeasance wouldn't be in their jurisdiction.

    We'll see what these sanctions are and if they will have teeth.

    And let's hope it also sets a precedent for when these athletes who think that they can have their way with women whenever they want get caught as well.

    "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." --M. L. King "You can't fix stupid" --Ron White -6.00, -5.18

    by zenbassoon on Sun Jul 22, 2012 at 12:29:24 PM PDT

    •  wrong (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cotterperson, jayden, Anne was here

      as freeh said, it was done in attempt by the leaders of the football program to protect the football program. it had everything to do with football.

      The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

      by Laurence Lewis on Sun Jul 22, 2012 at 01:45:09 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  No, I disagree (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Caj

        It had to do with football, absolutely. But it was also par for the course at PSU and many other schools.

        Spanier did the same exact thing with a professor who was a child molester. He covered it up.

        This is NOt just about protecting football.

        It's about CYA, cost/benefits, liabilities, etc.

        There are two pieces of evidence that would back this up.

        One, read the Freeh report exhibits. You'll see a handwritten note pass between Spanier and Schultz on 1/12/2001, long before that meeting between Paterno and Curley, and that note shows that Spanier was already on board with covering up for Sandusky.

        Freeh emphasized the last email in the chain over the sequential development of strategy. Why the emphasis on Paterno instead of Spanier? Because Spanier reports to the board. Spanier in fact reported on Sandusky to the Chairman of the Board. And Spanier is still unindicted, still has his job.

        The two biggest culprits after Sandusky are Paterno and Spanier.

        The second example I would give is that the Sandusky pedophile indictment was reported in the Pa. news back in late 2000. No one picked it up nationally.

        Chances are that it wouldn't have been picked up in 2001 either if they had only reported him then. But they were more concerned with being "humane" to Sandusky.

        The story went national once it became a PSU cover-up, not before.

        There are two kinds of people in this world. The kind who divide the world into two kinds of people, and the kind who don't.

        by upstate NY on Sun Jul 22, 2012 at 04:56:32 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Thanks for Posting (6+ / 0-)

    if the NCAA does not ban Penn St from football for at least three seasons, IMHO it's a slap on the wrist.

    I don't care about coaches being banned from college football. that's a no brainer and should be automatic.

    college football does not equal God. there are colleges where the football coaches are getting millions of dollars per year contracts.

    time to reign in the nonsense.

    sorry if this impacts the players- go play for Ohio or Michigan. Penn St is not the only Big Ten team out there

    "A civilization which does not provide young people with a way to earn a living is pretty poor". Eleanor Roosevelt

    by Superpole on Sun Jul 22, 2012 at 12:31:06 PM PDT

  •  I Just Want To Throw This Out There (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Phil S 33, oxfdblue, RainyDay

    taking away scholarships, who does that hurt. The student that did nothing wrong. Sure taking them away will hurt the program and therefore the University at some level, but not really.

    When opportunity calls pick up the phone and give it directions to your house.

    by webranding on Sun Jul 22, 2012 at 12:33:28 PM PDT

  •  Apparently no "negotiations" (5+ / 0-)
    The source wasn't sure if the university has been made aware of the penalties yet, but says the university was not involved in the decision. It was "not a negotiated process," the source says.
    From CNN sources FWIW..
  •  So Sandusky/Paterno/Curley isn't as bad (9+ / 0-)

    as SMU boosters giving football players cars, at least in the wisdom of the NCAA.  Wonder how much pressure the increasingly misnamed Big 10 had to apply to make sure PSU stayed on their schedules?

    The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike from sleeping under bridges. ~ Anatole France

    by ActivistGuy on Sun Jul 22, 2012 at 12:44:10 PM PDT

    •  Didn't you know (6+ / 0-)

      That giving cash and cars to underpriveldgded kids who were only pushed through HS to play ball is MORE WRONG than covering up child rape? /snark!

      Never underestimate stupid. Stupid is how reTHUGlicans win!

      by Mannie on Sun Jul 22, 2012 at 12:46:21 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  isn't as bad (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Mannie

      as child molestation + multi-year cover-up?

      ***********

      Squidward: The noises! How are you two making those noises?

      Patrick: Well, that's easy. All you need is a box.

      SpongeBob: And...imagi~nation!

      by rexymeteorite on Sun Jul 22, 2012 at 12:50:39 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  As someone above suggested, it was probably (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      VClib

      the opposite. Quite likely it was the Big East and Big 12, as well as some minor conferences, who exerted pressure to keep PSU from creating a vacancy in the Big Ten.

    •  The SMU death penalty (0+ / 0-)

      was done so UT and Arkansas could chase money. Easiest way to do it was to find a scapegoat for what everyone in the conference was doing, except maybe Rice.

      Seriously, SWC recruiting was a dick-size war in the Big Oil boardrooms in Dallas. And UT got pissed that SMU got Eric Dickerson, who as the best RB that year was their entitlement, dammit.

    •  It's not worse, but it is different (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      VClib

      In the case of SMU and to a lesser extent more recently of the University of Miami and Ohio State, active student athletes were getting cars, cash, jewelery, etc. as a quid pro quo for getting to play at that particular university. Unless the Penn State players who played for Paterno from the late 1970's thru 1998 saw Sandusky molesting children and did not report anything, they were not responsible for the institutional failures at PSU.

      What worries me is what the NCAA will do for the players currently receiving scholarships at PSU and whether they will be allowed to immediately transfer to another school.  High school kids can and are already changing their verbal commitments to PSU and signing elsewhere, but the NCAA has not offered those same protections to student-athletes currently attending college because of competitive balance.  As is stands right now, unless there are unusual circumstances, the NCAA requires students transferring from one college to another to sit out a year before being allowed to play for the school they transferred to.  However, they did make an exception last year for Russell Wilson, who attended the University of Wisconsin and was their starting quarterback even though he attended and played for North Carolina State University the year prior.  He was a redshirt junior but had successfully completed his undergraduate education at NC State and attended Wisconsin as a graduate student, thus retaining his eligibility for athletic scholarships.

  •  So What Happens to Players on Scholarship Now? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mannie

    Are theirs taken away, or is it the awarding of new scholarships for incoming players that's being curtailed?

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Sun Jul 22, 2012 at 12:46:05 PM PDT

  •  "Lack of Institutional Control" (6+ / 0-)

    I had a talk with a former colleague with whom I worked in a major university athletics program for 15 years. She worked and still does as a compliance officer.

    I asked her just what NCAA could and might do under rules that might apply.

    She said it would be under the general rubric of "lack of institutional control."

    That is in fact, it turns out, one of the deadly sins. It covers situations when not only athletics administrators but school administrators fail to do their job to insure that not only NCAA regs, but legal obligations are met.

    Failure to institute and maintain appropriate institutional controls will, I suspect, be what the NCAA uses to punish the school.

    I am, by the way, totally disgusted with those calling for a complete shut down of the Penn State program.

    That is appalling, and would be devastating for the lives and careers of the student athletes, who would be the ones paying the price for the failures and sins of those who should have taken action and done the right thing.

    Those coaches and administrators are the ones who should be punished. Not the student athletes, by destroying the program.

    Of course, those who totally oppose college and university athletics, and would like to see them destroyed, have jumped on this tragedy like birds on a June bug. But having dealt with and watched that mentality for the last 15 years of my career before retiring, it is a phenomenon I am all to familiar with. I gave up trying to reason with them years ago.

    "You've got to be very careful if you don't know where you are going, because you might not get there." “When you come to the fork in the road, take it.” --Yogi Berra

    by HeartlandLiberal on Sun Jul 22, 2012 at 12:49:58 PM PDT

    •  the players can transfer (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cotterperson

      as some did from smu. the focus of your compassion is interesting.

      The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

      by Laurence Lewis on Sun Jul 22, 2012 at 01:47:56 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Thanks for the information. (0+ / 0-)

      I've enjoyed at least my share of NCAA athletics, but I gotta say -- Penn State football needs a "come to Jesus moment." I hope this is it, and that the school is punished in a way that will wake up those trapped in that culture. To maintain it, numerous responsible adults let one man rape children for more than a decade!

      That's pure evil.

      "Let each unique song be sung and the spell of differentiation be broken" - Winter Rabbit

      by cotterperson on Sun Jul 22, 2012 at 02:27:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Instead of a death penalty (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jayden

    1) Ban them from Bowl Games for three years.

    2) Have all games played in a "media silence"- no television, radio, or internet broadcasts of games for two years.  Limited highlights of games can be shown after the game is over.

    3) All endorsement contracts are cancelled for three years.

    4) No merchandise with any sort PSU football affiliation can be sold for three years.

    5) Whatever profits remain from ticket sales goes to a victim fund.

  •  PSU TRUSTEE Quote...SERIOUSLY FUCKED UP (12+ / 0-)

    See bolded part of quote, and THIS is a trustee?!!

    "Unbelievable," said a Penn State trustee informed of the NCAA statement, speaking to ESPN.com senior writer Don Van Natta Jr. "Unbelievable, unbelievable."

    The Penn State trustees' hope that the statue's removal might send a positive message was trumped by the NCAA, which had already decided.

    "Emmert has been given full reign by the pansy presidents (at other universities) to make his own decision," said the trustee, who spoke on condition of anonymity. "He has been given the authority to impose these unprecedented sanctions. It's horrible."

    Never underestimate stupid. Stupid is how reTHUGlicans win!

    by Mannie on Sun Jul 22, 2012 at 01:10:22 PM PDT

  •  Whatever sanctions are imposed... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jayden, Cassandra Waites

    I would like for Emmert to allow transfer without penalty for any Penn State football players.  I would also like to see Penn State take action on its own, by playing the next two seasons as a non-profit program, donating all profits to local and/or national child abuse charities.  The loss of revenue from donating those profits should effect no part of Penn State other than the football program...not cutting of academic programs or personnel to cover the losses.

    •  I've thought that a policy of allowing (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      downsouth, MA Mom

      transfer with no penalty should have been put in place at least when Sandusky was convicted, if not earlier.

      The players who don't want to have playing for Penn State after Sandusky's crimes became truly public knowledge on their athletic records shouldn't be penalized for preventing it from being there.

      Prayers and best wishes to those in Japan.

      by Cassandra Waites on Sun Jul 22, 2012 at 05:51:16 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  SCOTUS overturns ACA!! (0+ / 0-)

    (Forgive, please. Couldn't resist.) Tipped and rec'd for interesting discussion.

    "Let each unique song be sung and the spell of differentiation be broken" - Winter Rabbit

    by cotterperson on Sun Jul 22, 2012 at 02:08:53 PM PDT

  •  The story at McClatchy's (0+ / 0-)

    Centre Daily Times in State College mentions punitive  punishment. IANAL, but doesn't that mean serious enough punishment to dissuade others. If so, That's a step in the right direction.

    "Let each unique song be sung and the spell of differentiation be broken" - Winter Rabbit

    by cotterperson on Sun Jul 22, 2012 at 02:31:17 PM PDT

  •  Paterno and his program (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    leevank, Mannie

    deserved, richly and fully deserved the death penalty.

    Why?because the one egregious ongoing scandal, the obe where his right hand man, his buddy Sandusky was given a wink and a nod and a blessing to keep molesting is only part of it. Paterno interfered when anything arose that threatened his program. If his players were reckless and assaulted someone, as half a dozen did that put other students in the hospital unconscious, he would threaten and defy the deans to take care of the coverup himself. The assaulted students never got justice.

    When some players sexually assaulted other students, Paterno stepped in and covered it up, pushing back again against a female official trying to speak up for the interests of the injured students  and got the other official fired.

    He was running a program that was indifferent and ignoring real problems and really unforgiveable behavior.  he got caught only because the victims finally got their point around the culture of silence he imposed.

    Penn State can be knocked back 3 or five years with reduced scholarships for 10 years. that would be a real death penalty because they would not be competitive and be the losers in the chase to attract the most promising players. that is fine, Penn State is bigger than football.   Or is it?

    Paterno was the win at any cost guy, the kind that is completely replaceable and forgettable.  That is what the Penn State JoPa culture need to learn. The hard way.

    This signature....is currently under construction..

    by BeeDeeS on Sun Jul 22, 2012 at 03:21:25 PM PDT

    •  Penn State is far bigger than sports! (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      leevank, Anne was here, Mannie, BeeDeeS

      I am a Penn State alumnus (over 30 years ago).  The academics and value of my degree was what was important to all of us (those that I knew personally there).  Football was something to do on a Saturday for many.  Personally I only attended one game in my two years on campus.  

      Penn State academically will be fine without football (or a major football program).  While I am a football fan, I have always found it sad that at Penn State and other major universities with top football/basketball programs sports is much more recognized than the great education and research that these universities provide.  

      Without scholarships they will be equivalent to a Division II or maybe even III school.  Those schools survive just fine!  

      •  Yep. The University of Chicago was a founding ... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Craig S, Mannie, BeeDeeS

        member of the Big Ten, but dropped out in 1946 after dropping football in 1939.  The fact that they only play in Division III (no athletic scholarships) now doesn't seem to have harmed their overall standing much.

        Bin Laden is dead. GM and Chrysler are alive.

        by leevank on Sun Jul 22, 2012 at 03:57:34 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Penn ST penalties should be (0+ / 0-)

    No less than:
    1) 5 years probation: no TV or bowl games
    2) Loss of 20 scholarships per year over the 5 yr period
    3) ALL coaches on staff at time of abuses are terminated
    4) Retribution fund of $50 million set up for known victims of Paterno/Sandusky regime
    5) Fund of $250 million be set up for general child abuse education, treatment, etc.
    6) Permanent monument of some type established on Penn St. campus to recognize the torture the victims endured and praising them for having the courage to come forward and testify.
    7) Those who took part in the cover-up must face criminal charges and have a permanent place in hell along side Hitler, Atila the Hun, Idi Amin, and any other low life who ever crawled out from under a rock.

    •  So, given the financial punishment (0+ / 0-)

      you believe PSU should be shut down as a university.

      You are aware they don't have that kind of money to pay out, right?

      Unless they raise tuition $20k per student.

      There are two kinds of people in this world. The kind who divide the world into two kinds of people, and the kind who don't.

      by upstate NY on Sun Jul 22, 2012 at 04:58:59 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  barronthedem - what school has that kind of $$? (0+ / 0-)

      Fortunately for Penn State you are not the NCAA.

      "let's talk about that"

      by VClib on Sun Jul 22, 2012 at 07:24:21 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  So tomorrow the NCAA announces (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Mannie

    that covering up years of molestation and rape of children is not as bad as gambling in their eyes. Good job NCAA.

    Can any school do anything that would result in the "death penalty" if they were a strong school? No matter what they will just say that what they have done isn't as bad as what Penn State did, and they will be right in 99.99% of all cases.

  •  The death penalty (0+ / 0-)

    Isn't a deterrent to crime.

  •  I have to offer a bit of a reality check (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    VClib, taffers

    As much as people don't want to hear this (mainly because they so badly want PSU to pay for its despicable acts, and rightly so), depending on what the NCAA does here, it seems like they are badly overreaching.  Look the NCAA rules and sanctions are designed to keep teams from gaining a competitive advantage by paying players under the table and stuff like that. This is not that kind of issue. The NCAA has a long history of overreaching and then getting smacked down by the courts. If you don't think Penn State will do that if the sanctions are too over the top you are dreaming and they will probably win.

    Also, those waiting for a "culture change" from the fans who still support the teams and are outraged at that the team is being attacked will be sorely disappointed. Harsher sanctions won't "change the culture" they will just these people even angrier. It will only make them more (wrongly) convinced that the program was scapegoated for the bad acts of a few individuals. The tougher the sanctions the more they will circle the wagons. It will only further entrench this culture.

    Note that I'm not saying PSU doesn't deserve whatever is coming (nothing will ever ever make up for what they have done).

    •  as a Penn State alumnus (0+ / 0-)

      I hope that you are wrong.  At first they will be angry but I do believe that over the long term all this will be a good thing for Penn State.  A culture change will occur because the football team will not be competitive on the level they have been.  Football will stop being the focal point of so many.  Maybe I am dreaming but I believe many others like myself will begin to remember what truly makes Penn State great, the students and the faculty and the academic resources that are there.

      •  I'd like to think that was true.... (0+ / 0-)

        But history shows that its unlikely. Alabama had major sanctions imposed for a cornucopia of violations, which left them  uncompetitive for the better part of a decade. That didn't turn off the hard core fans, it energized them to pour more money and time into the program until they brought it back to life.

        Look at Notre Dame. Their football program has been middling at best for decades, yet they still expect to win the national title every year and, as a result, every few years they run the coach out of town (yet still must pay his hefty salary) and then spend even more on another coach.

        USC football was dormant for decades until, again, Pete Carol came and turned them into winners. When sanctions for various misdeeds laid the program low it was the NCAA that bore the brunt of the alumnis' wrath not Carol.

  •  I'm for ending football at PSU (0+ / 0-)

    but frankly, the $60 million they are talking about as punishment to go into NCAA coffers and then to abuse victims is going to come out of the academic side, and it will cause tuition to rise sharply.

    That's a lot of money for a university.

    The NCAA actually has no business entering into university budgets.

    It should stick to preventing PSU from taking on other NCAA schools on the football field.

    Beyond that, it should stick to its own hypocritical idiocies.

    There are two kinds of people in this world. The kind who divide the world into two kinds of people, and the kind who don't.

    by upstate NY on Sun Jul 22, 2012 at 05:00:38 PM PDT

  •  What would happen if the NCAA (0+ / 0-)

    simply severed its ties with the PSU program? Kicked them out.

    -5.38 -4.72 T. Atlas shrugged. Jesus wept.

    by trevzb on Sun Jul 22, 2012 at 05:36:10 PM PDT

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