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So Republicans are responding to the new Priorities USA ad featuring Bain layoff victim Joe Soptic, who lost his job and health insurance in 2001 and whose wife died of cancer in 2006, with a new web video focusing almost entirely on the question of whether or not Obama deputy campaign manager Stephanie Cutter was correct when she said she didn't know exactly when Soptic's wife passed way.

I don't know what's more amazing: that Republicans managed to put together a 1:15 second video focused almost entirely on the completely irrelevant question of whether Cutter did know (or should have known) exactly when Soptic's wife died ... or that they managed to put together such a video without even definitively making the case that she lied.

But what I can understand is why they don't want to deal with the issue raised by the Priorities USA ad: Mitt Romney's lack of concern for people like Joe Soptic. Romney made millions on the deal involving Soptic's company, but Soptic was left holding the bag: out of a job and without health insurance. Within five years, his wife—who herself had lost health insurance from another job—died of cancer.

Nobody can say for sure if Soptic's life would have been saved if she'd had health insurance. But one thing we do know is that if Obamacare had been in effect when Soptic was laid off, she would have had health insurance and access to to the health care that might have saved her life. In fact, Romney's campaign tried to defend itself yesterday by saying basically the same thing, arguing that if Soptic had been in Massachusetts, Romneycare would have provided coverage.

That would have been a good argument to make, but Mitt Romney has now abandoned Romneycare. If he gets his way, Obamacare will be repealed, jeopardizing the health security of families just like Joe Soptic's. Romney once supported taking Romneycare national, but when it became politically inconvenient, he flip-flopped to save his own skin. And that's what Mitt Romney has always been about: ruthlessly putting himself first. That's why Joe Soptic got the raw end of the deal when Mitt Romney was CEO and sole owner of Bain Capital. That's why Mitt Romney made millions even when his investments went bankrupt, putting employees out of work, destroying their retirement funds, and kicking them off insurance. That's why Mitt Romney has never made a promise he wouldn't break for the right price. And that's why Mitt Romney is not what this country needs as president.

Republicans want to dismiss Soptic's story as being the equivalent of an accusation of murder. But that's not what it is. It is, however, an accusation of callousness. The central point of the ad is that Mitt Romney put his own interests ahead of others, a pattern that we see continued to this very day with Romney's abandonment of his signature policy achievement, Romneycare. The fact that Republicans refuse to defend Romney on the merits and instead try to shift the debate into hyperbole and irrelevancy speaks volumes about just how weak Romney's position is on this very point, and Democrats can't afford to walk away from this fight.

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Comment Preferences

  •  The issue they are trying to raise here... (13+ / 0-)

    is coordination between Obama campaign and PrioritiesUSA.  Basically them make this accusation first and it gives them carte blanche for Rove and Romney to have dinner meetings together and the MSM will say "Well both sides do it...".

    And Rove and Romney Camp are in coordination - Rove often at gatherings that Romney Camp is hosting.

  •  That is a pretty weak excuse. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sunbro, PSzymeczek, Kinak

    But it seems familiar. Where did I hear something just like that before?

    Oh, right. Now I remember.

    ROMNEY: And with regards to their ads, I haven’t seen them, and as you know under the law, I can’t direct their ads. … If there’s anything in there that’s wrong, I hope they take it out. … But let me tell you this, the ad I saw said that you’d been forced out of the speakership. That was correct. It said that you sat down with Nancy Pelosi and argued for a climate change bill. That was correct. ...

    "Speaking for myself only" - Armando

    by JR on Thu Aug 09, 2012 at 12:44:42 PM PDT

  •  Calling "No Fair" hasn't been a good practice (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    blue aardvark, Candide08

    for Massachusetts Presidential candidates...I doubt that pattern is about to change...

    Republicans are a parody these days....oh...and the media that rides along with them...

    "But once John Boehner is sworn in as Speaker, then he’s going to have responsibilities to govern. You can’t just stand on the sidelines and be a bomb thrower." - President Obama, 12-07-2010

    by justmy2 on Thu Aug 09, 2012 at 12:45:09 PM PDT

  •  And adequate defense... (5+ / 0-)

    ...if you couldn't possibly vote for Obama.

    This pathetic ad makes no sense and has no effect whatsoever, unless you are deeply committed to the Romney campaign and are extremely well-versed in the controversy.  Otherwise, it means nothing.  Waste of money.  Keep it up.

  •  Shades of Breitbart there (4+ / 0-)

    with the editing and phone call juxtaposition.

    But really, who cares what Mika Brzezinski thinks?

  •  Just saw this on Facebook (0+ / 0-)

    http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/...

    It appears they are attacking the victim, but I'd like to know if there's any truth to it at all.

    Romney economics: Feed our seed corn to the fattest pigs and trust them to poop out jobs.

    by blue aardvark on Thu Aug 09, 2012 at 12:46:36 PM PDT

    •  It seems Priorities was loose with the facts... (4+ / 0-)

      His wife had her own insurance and only lost it later when she was hurt at work or something.  Then she got sick and didn't go to the doctor because they had no insurance.  I've heard she died six years later or upwards of 13 years later.  

      There's a reason why the Obama Campaign isn't touching this one with a ten-foot pole.  

      •  Don't miss the forest for the trees (10+ / 0-)

        Bottom line, whether she had her own insurance at some point or not, she would've been able to get on her husband's plan at some point after losing his job, but that couldn't happen, because Bain eliminated his job and benefits.  

        •  So anytime an (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          coffeetalk

          employer lays off workers, he is somehow responsible for any family member who later dies and is a bad person?

          not sure that's a helpful message

          •  Uhh.....Power?!? (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Tonedevil, nanorich

            You seem to think the decisions private equity corporations like Bain Capital makes are similar in kind and scope to a mom and pop pizzeria.  They aren't, and THAT'S the issue here.  

          •  So as long as your spouse has a job with (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            tb mare, skohayes, Ion, nanorich

            health benefits, it's okay for Bain to slash and burn because you're safe, is that the message? Who says the spouse's company isn't next? Bain is NOT excused for ruining that man's life because his wife might have had a job that might have provided benefits.

            "I'm sculpting now. Landscapes mostly." ~ Yogi Bear

            by eXtina on Thu Aug 09, 2012 at 02:19:17 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  This was a LOT more (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Constantly Amazed

            than an "employer laying off workers".

            With Romney at the helm, Bain Capital invested in the small Kansas City steel mill called GST Steel Co. in 1993. It was a company that traced its roots to 1888 but had fallen on hard times. According to the Kansas City Star, the company’s ranks had dropped from 4,500 employees in 1970 to just 1,500 employees by 1983.

            In addition, the company was beset by aging equipment and faced stiff competition in a specialized market, according to a lengthy Reuters report. Nonetheless, Bain saw potential in the company and, Reuters reported, invested $8 million in it. That initial investment was quickly recouped when, in 1994, the company issued $125 million in bonds and paid out $65 million in dividends — $36.1 million of which went to Bain, according to Reuters. The following year, Bain merged the company with another in Georgetown, S.C., renaming the company GS Industries and issuing another $125 million in bonds.

            Bain also reinvested an additional $16.5 million in the company, evidence that Bain intended to keep the firm going. Nevertheless, six years later, the company declared bankruptcy and eliminated 750 jobs — including Soptic’s, the man featured in the Priorities USA Action ad.

            The company also reneged on pension and other benefits it had agreed to in 1997. The U.S. Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. later determined the company had severely underfunded its pension, and the federal agency covered the cost of basic pension payments.

            http://factcheck.org/...

            Bain moved in, recouped their investment several times over in bond sales, and drove the company into bankruptcy, and left workers without their pensions, because they were stealing from that too.

            I hope you can see the difference.

            “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

            by skohayes on Thu Aug 09, 2012 at 02:42:15 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Actually, the forest for the trees is (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          nanorich

          Without Obamacare people will continue to get screwed out of their healthcare by people like Romney.

          Mitt the twit.

          ...the train's got its brakes on and the whistle is screaming.

          by themank on Thu Aug 09, 2012 at 02:41:39 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  That's an understatement (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        coffeetalk, VClib, Yosef 52

        They more or less say romney caused the dude's wife to die. I'm sorry but as i stated elsewhere, that is just too much for me. They knew the facts of the case (who had insurance, when, and timelines of diagnosis)  and simply didn't care.

      •  This guy didn't foam at the mouth (5+ / 0-)

        and come off like a crazy person. He seems absolutely sincere.

        Mitt Romney closed the plant. This man lost a good job with health insurance. When his wife got sick, he had a crappy job without the money or the insurance to get her help.

        And Mitt Romney doesn't give a man like this, a woman's life like this, a second thought.

        He made money, and he's happy. That's all Mitt sees.

        This is not the attitude you want in a President of the US. Being President is not about how you can make the most money, people's lives be damned.

      •  That is speculation (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Tonedevil

        It is possible that she did go to the doctor when she had the first symptoms.  Sometimes it just works like that.  How do you know she put off going to the doctor?

    •  layoff was in 2001, wife died in 2006 (10+ / 0-)

      Romney was still CEO/sole owner of Bain during the layoff.

      She had other insurance for a time, but lost it when she lost her job. So Romney is not the only reason they didn't have insurance, but the layoff was part of the reason.

      We also don't know if insurance would have saved her life or not. But the fact that she died in 2006 isn't really the issue. By the time they discovered the cancer, it was too late.

      And going back to the point about Romney not being the only reason they didn't have insurance: the larger problem is the lack of universal health coverage in the U.S. Obamacare almost completely solves that—but Romney is against it, even though he supported it in Massachusetts.

      To me, the key thing about the ad is that whether we're talking about the when the layoff happened or now with him opposing Obamacare, Romney's decisions were based on maximizing his own self interest.

      •  No (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        annecros, coffeetalk, VClib

        the ad clearly paints the picture that the layoff cuased her to have no health insurance. That is incorrect and as you say:

        So Romney is not the only reason they didn't have insurance,
        We also don't know if insurance would have saved her life or not.
        If that is the case then the ad is deceptive because Cutter did know all of this. But they ran the ad anyway.  And in a way, are exploiting the family's loss.

        I know everyone will say "it's just hardball" but I'd see our side have some line they refuse to cross when it comes to negative advertising. Leave the gutter for the gop.

        •  Doesn't bother you at all (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Aquarius40, Tonedevil

          that people die when their health care is taken away when companies like Bain send people's jobs offshore?

        •  so it's okay for Bain to close plants whose (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          nanorich

          workers have alternate means of survival through employed spouses, etc., yes?

          "I'm sculpting now. Landscapes mostly." ~ Yogi Bear

          by eXtina on Thu Aug 09, 2012 at 02:21:07 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  This isn't about closing plants (0+ / 0-)

            Plants close and open all the time. Are all the people who have to close businesses responsible for the welfare of displaced employees?

            I can't condone an ad that knowingly distorts the facts of the case at hand, and strongly  implicates that the president's opponent is responsible for someone's death because of a business decision he had nothing to do with.

            •  Bain didn't 'have to' close anything (0+ / 0-)

              they had to make money for Willard and they found a way

              Are all the people who have to close businesses responsible for the welfare of displaced employees?

              "I'm sculpting now. Landscapes mostly." ~ Yogi Bear

              by eXtina on Thu Aug 09, 2012 at 02:56:31 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  people like you are making the argument that it (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              nanorich

              was okay for Bain to close this plant and take away this man's job because his wife still had one. That's not how it works.

              "I'm sculpting now. Landscapes mostly." ~ Yogi Bear

              by eXtina on Thu Aug 09, 2012 at 02:57:40 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  no that is NOT what I am saying (0+ / 0-)

                And it is a side issue anyway. I am saying plants close. Its terrible when it affects people but not every business is successful for ever. I've been laid off. I've laid someone off. Neither is pleasant.

                •  It's not a side issue it's the issue (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  More Questions Than Answers

                  Yes some business fail and have to close. THIS IS NOT THE CASE HERE. Bain closed down a working company so they could make money on the deal. It was unnecessary.

                  "I'm sculpting now. Landscapes mostly." ~ Yogi Bear

                  by eXtina on Thu Aug 09, 2012 at 03:18:18 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  yes they did (0+ / 0-)

                    and that sucks. but Bain as one of many companies also created American jobs too. It was/is the biz. But  I don't believe he killed the guys wife OK?

                    And it would be nice if your (selective) outrage were focused upon ALL venture capitalists? because there a number of high heeled democrats in that group as well. or are you just a lemming for the party?

        •  keep in mind... (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          tb mare, skohayes, eXtina, nanorich

          ...the issue is BOTH that Romney took away a key part of this guy's family's safety net AND simultaneously opposes the the policy that would make sure this kind of thing couldn't happen in the future.

          There's only so much you can include in an ad, but i think the essential story it tells is true, even if it lacks many of the details and nuances that we talk about here: and that essential truth is that romney put himself first then and he's putting himself first now.

          IOW, I don't see the ad as an accusation of murder: i see it as an accusation of incredible indifference.

          I completely respect that some people might have done the ad differently, and perhaps anticipating some of the pushback it would have been helpful to get this stuff up front initially so as to not detract from that, but I still think the essential claim is right.

          •  Ok this is a little (0+ / 0-)

            semantic but it IS serious when you implicate your opponent as responsible for someone's death.

            you keep saying romney did this. Who made the decision to close the plant and why? It wasn't, as far as anyone has defined it, romney's decision as he was in absentia.

            Lots of people oppose this policy, many in my family but i don't think it makes them liable for a death.

            romney put himself first? Um.. Ok. But again in any case Bain was putting investor's returns first.

            And say he was indifferent? How did he even know? Did someone call mitt and say this guy's wife was just diagnosed with cancer and she lost her her health insurance and bain closed a plant where her husband had heath insurance 5 years ago?

            I totaly agree with highlighting the differences: romney opposes ACA and it could prevent a scenario like Mr. Soptic's.

            But that is a far cry from this ad does.

            I realize this upsets the "our opponents are 100% evil - not just wrong so ANYTHING is justified" mindset but that is why i find this ad so reprehensible. Priorities USA knew the facts of the case and purposefully distorted the truth. It totally encourages more of the same. and I just wonder at what point do we, as progressives say "OK, that's as far down in the mud I'll go"? I just cant go that far and it disappoints me greatly.

            And finally, it gives licenses to our opponents to engage in the same (or worse) accusations. Higher ground is better.  

          •  BTW (0+ / 0-)

            The ad states "I do not think Mitt Romney realized what he's done to anyone". The preceding statement "and then she passed away". That's a pretty damned strong indictment. I just don;t see ho so many think this is an honest and honorable way to run.

        •  so obviously Bain checked out Soptic's personal (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          nanorich

          details and when they found out Soptic's wife had some kind of insurance, decided it was okay to trash his life. that's the argument you're making

          "I'm sculpting now. Landscapes mostly." ~ Yogi Bear

          by eXtina on Thu Aug 09, 2012 at 03:17:04 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  What a terrible ad - please run it often GOP! (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    eXtina, miracle11, tb mare, skohayes

    Cutter establishes that she didn't know the date of death (which is kind of meaningless anyway).
    Scarborough says over and over that this is a stupid issue for the Repubs to pursue.  GOP spokesperson looks dumb in response.
    On balance, the ad looks better for Dems than Repubs.
    Go ahead GOP, spend $ millions running this ad.

  •  It's also worth noting that OFA isn't touching (0+ / 0-)

    this issue.  There was no ad starring Andrea Saul quickly produced and released today.  They're not going to touch this one because the media swallowed the GOP frame that "they're accusing Romney or murder!!1!".  

    Seems like the Obama Campaign doesn't want the ACA to be an election issue either.  

  •  That commercial makes no sense. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    eXtina, WheninRome, miracle11

    And also, fuck Joe Scar and MEEKa

  •  PUSA needs a parade of RMoney/Pain victims now... (4+ / 0-)

    one per week through November

    Dudehisattva...

    "Generosity, Ethics, Patience, Effort, Concentration, and Wisdom"

    by Dood Abides on Thu Aug 09, 2012 at 12:50:05 PM PDT

  •  So wait, they made an ad to attack an (5+ / 0-)

    Obama surrogate not Obama himself?  Wow that's money well spent.

    We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

    by owilde69 on Thu Aug 09, 2012 at 12:50:10 PM PDT

  •  Um, what? nt (0+ / 0-)

    "I'm sculpting now. Landscapes mostly." ~ Yogi Bear

    by eXtina on Thu Aug 09, 2012 at 12:50:41 PM PDT

  •  My suggestion is to visit the video at You Tube... (0+ / 0-)

    Press dislike and then make a comment of your choice.

    That way our opinion is heard by the other side who are actually seeing this as a win...though they are a bit thin on the "wins" lately.

    Wonders are many, but none so wonderful as man.

    by Morgan Sandlin on Thu Aug 09, 2012 at 12:51:46 PM PDT

  •  if they have the tape (3+ / 0-)

    of the conference call had Joe Soptic saying the dates of his wife's death, why didn't they cut that into the ad?  Maybe because it wasn't there?

    And whose to say she didn't forget the dates after three months of a zillion things happening in the campaign.

    So other than an assertion of a lie, they proved nothing.  They did prove the Obama campaign didn't make the ad and that Stephanie Cutter spoke at least one time on the phone to Joe Soptic.

    Other than that, its a wierd looking blond woman, repeating, they did know, but nothing to back it up.

    And certainly, no dialogue on whether or not people being booted off health insurance when their company closes down is a good thing, ought to be addressed, leads to unnecessary early deaths, etc.  

    Mostly they are all upset that Romney's actions leading to the death of people is mentioned in public.   Maybe RMoney should have been more concerned with people living or dying than his personal fortune, and then people wouldn't be seeing ads like this.  

  •  Much like Dems who didn't want to go after Bain (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Aquarius40, skohayes

    people focusing on the "accuracy" of Soptic's story are missing the boat. The bottom line is that so many Americans have lost jobs, homes, pensions and benefits over the past few decades that everyone knows someone who has been in a position like the Soptics.  

    In the context of the debate over what type of economy we think our nation should have, Mrs. Soptics death provides a moving dramatization of the effects of deindustrialization, offshoring, the evisceration of the social safety net and the attitudes of so-called "conservatives" who claim to value the family, social continuity over time, etc., but really stand for the type of piratical capitalism that defines Romney's career.

    People who have been through this, know people who have been through it, etc., don't care about establishing airtight causal links between Bain and Mrs. Soptic's death. This ad hits at the emotional level of a gut punch and speaks the truth about the way people feel about the radical transformation our economy has undergone over the past 40 years. Let the GOP publicize this for all its worth, call it into question, etc.  Like Cory Booker who called out Obama when going after Bain, people who criticize this strategy just don't understand what a powerful, winning and ultimately accurate tool it is.

  •  Issue is 100% about Bain Capitals lack of ethics (3+ / 0-)

    Mrs. Soptic was unfortunately one of numerous victims of this firm.  The firm was formed by Mitt Romney with money from El Salvador Death Squad members.  Romney operated this firm with reckless disregard for its victims and now refuses to accept any responsibility, provide any business records or Tax Returns.

  •  this makes no sense!!! (0+ / 0-)

    not even in their own terms!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I CAN'T TAKE THIS ANYMORE!!  I CAN'T HANDLE THE STUPIDITY!!!

    MITT ROMNEY IN 2012 : LET'S PROVE THE MAYANS RIGHT!!!!!! (-9.75 / -9.05)

    by doesnotworkorplaywellwithothers on Thu Aug 09, 2012 at 01:01:33 PM PDT

  •  Jed, this is about changing the subject, (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rasfrome

    not justifying their answer or lack thereof.

    They MUST take the topic away from healthcare and make it all Somebody Else's Fault™.  (Namely Obama)

    Happy little moron, Lucky little man.
    I wish I was a moron, MY GOD, Perhaps I am!
    —Spike Milligan

    by polecat on Thu Aug 09, 2012 at 01:01:52 PM PDT

  •  Part about not guarding their flanks is hilarious! (0+ / 0-)

    So Romney is still wide-open to attack?

    Ah, but at least we're not talking about his taxes anymore!!!

    /facepalm

    Happy little moron, Lucky little man.
    I wish I was a moron, MY GOD, Perhaps I am!
    —Spike Milligan

    by polecat on Thu Aug 09, 2012 at 01:05:59 PM PDT

  •  big fan of Ms Cutter's style. i wish she and O (0+ / 0-)

    communications would lay off the qualifiers about the super pac rules.  nobody gives a shit.

    i need a rails developer to help me with a cool map project

    by rasfrome on Thu Aug 09, 2012 at 01:06:27 PM PDT

  •  I watched Anderson Cooper call the ad (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skohayes

    dishonest last night in his apparent effort to sell the Corporate Media's meme that everybody does it i.e. lie in campaign ads. However, the fact remains that when a guy like Soptic loses his job, it's not just the job but the entire family's finances are devastated. Sure, it was years later that his wife was diagnosed but it's not at all unusual for financial ruin to last far longer than that when someone loses a job. They almost certainly had tough decisions to make financially and even with insurance, copays and deductibles can make relatively routine checkups for folks in those circumstances unaffordable in practice. BTW the guy they had on to defend the ad did a pathetic job. Not sure if that was by design.

    Just another faggity fag socialist fuckstick homosinner!

    by Ian S on Thu Aug 09, 2012 at 01:11:47 PM PDT

    •  Don't skip the part (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      VClib

      where she was insured through her own employer.  

      •  But she lost that (0+ / 0-)
        But in an interview with CNN, Soptic said that when he lost his job at GS Industries in 2001, his wife still had health insurance through her job as an employee at Savers, a local thrift store. He told CNN that she left her job in 2002 or 2003 because of an injury, and that she then became uninsured because she didn’t have a fall-back insurance option through his employer.
        http://factcheck.org/...

        “We are not a nation that says ‘don’t ask, don’t tell.’ We are a nation that says ‘out of many, we are one.’” -Barack Obama

        by skohayes on Thu Aug 09, 2012 at 02:58:50 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  A little off-topic here but I'm wondering (0+ / 0-)

    what havoc is visited on "average" citizens who do ads for political campaigns...all the Republican ads with "I built it" average citizens who turned out to have had quite a bit of government help with their businesses.  Other than this ad most of the average citizens in the anti-Bain ads haven't been questioned about their claims including the lengthy ad run by Gingrich in SC.

    "Forever is composed of nows." Emily Dickinson

    by Leftovers on Thu Aug 09, 2012 at 01:14:24 PM PDT

  •  I Wouldn't Call It a Good Argument to Make to Argu (0+ / 0-)

    that people should live in Massachusetts if they're going to have jobs they might lose.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Thu Aug 09, 2012 at 01:14:49 PM PDT

  •  I'm feeling sorry for this guy (0+ / 0-)

    and wondering if PUSA have their priorities straight. He's gonna get bullied, and I am not sure if PUSA didn't further victimize him. I mean, millions of American's are undergoing the same hardships his family did right now.

    Its the WSJ, but at least they talked to the guy himself.

    Asked what Mr. Romney's responsibility was in the family's misfortunes, Mr. Soptic said: "He was one of the investors [in the plant]. When they bought the company, they guaranteed us that we would receive a full pension and health care. And when [the company] filed for bankruptcy, I lost some of my pension and all my health care. And if I've had that health care, her quality of life would probably have been a little better."
    In an interview, Mr. Soptic said he thought the ad was fair. But he also said of Mr. Romney: "I'm not blaming him for her death. I wouldn't do that."
    Mr. Soptic said that his wife was receiving health insurance through her employer at the time he lost his job at GST Steel, though she later suffered an injury, left her job and lost her insurance coverage. He could not say precisely when this occurred.

    Mr. Soptic said that after he lost his job, he found work as a school custodian about six months later and had the option to put her on his insurance plan. But he opted not to, he said, because he could not afford the more than $350 monthly premium on the $25,000 salary he was making, on top of paying his mortgage and a daughter's college tuition. Ilyona Soptic was diagnosed with cancer in 2006 and died that year.

  •  Romney is going about this all wrong (0+ / 0-)

    All of his problems come from the public's belief that health care leads to better health outcomes.  Romney and the Republicans need to chip away at this assumption, by showing Americans that some people get lots of health care but die anyway, and that some people (like those Soviet Georgians featured in Dannon yogurt commercials in the 1970s) get little or no health care but live long and healthy lives.  

    Mitt Romney '12: Berlusconi without the sex and alcohol!

    by Rich in PA on Thu Aug 09, 2012 at 01:15:47 PM PDT

    •  We all know that is a dumb argument -- (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Rich in PA, skohayes

      This is the fallacy that coincidence is proof of causation.

      People in 1808 generally got ZERO healthcare.  But today they are all DEAD.

      I suspect the fact that they are all dead is just as good PROOF that tomatoes are poisonous.

      Obviously,  anyone who ate a tomato in 1808 is now DEAD.

      "The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave." -- Patrick Henry

      by BornDuringWWII on Thu Aug 09, 2012 at 01:31:52 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I'm sorry (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    annecros, coffeetalk, VClib

    but I agree with Lanny Davis on this ad.

  •  Romney's argument is WORSE that you describe: (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skohayes
    In fact, Romney's campaign tried to defend itself yesterday by saying basically the same thing, arguing that if Soptic had been in Massachusetts, Romneycare would have provided coverage.

    That would have been a good argument to make, but Mitt Romney has now abandoned Romneycare.

    Soptic was laid of in 2001.

    RomnayCare started in Massachusetts only in 2006.

    R-MONEY's campaign spokeswoman Andrea Saul said that if Soptic lived in Massachusetts in 2001 when he was laid off, he could have had RomneyCare (which didn't exist at that time).

    Is that INCOMPETENT or what?? Andrea Saul doesn't even KNOW when R-MONEY signed RomneyCare??  Are these guys JOKING or are they just the COMPLETE MORONS they appear to be??  Holy cow.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/...

    On April 12, 2006, Governor Mitt Romney signed the health legislation. Romney vetoed eight sections of the health care legislation, including the controversial employer assessment. Romney also vetoed provisions providing dental benefits to poor residents on the Medicaid program, and providing health coverage to senior and disabled legal immigrants not eligible for federal Medicaid. The legislature promptly overrode six of the eight gubernatorial section vetoes, on May 4, 2006, and by mid-June 2006 had overridden the remaining two.

    "The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave." -- Patrick Henry

    by BornDuringWWII on Thu Aug 09, 2012 at 01:25:22 PM PDT

  •  Willie Horton..... (0+ / 1-)
    Recommended by:
    Hidden by:
    bobtmn

    Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton Willie Horton

  •  The chutzpa (0+ / 0-)

    It defies belief.  

    -9.00, -5.85
    If only stupidity were painful...

    by Wintermute on Thu Aug 09, 2012 at 01:29:25 PM PDT

  •  How does it help Romney? (0+ / 0-)

    Not a very effective ad.

    Jesus was a bleeding heart liberal

    by BeeClone on Thu Aug 09, 2012 at 01:31:17 PM PDT

  •  Time fopr the 2nd punch (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skohayes
    In fact, Romney's campaign tried to defend itself yesterday by saying basically the same thing, arguing that if Soptic had been in Massachusetts, Romneycare would have provided coverage.

    That would have been a good argument to make, but Mitt Romney has now abandoned Romneycare. If he gets his way, Obamacare will be repealed, jeopardizing the health security of families just like Joe Soptic's.

    This ought to be the basis of the next commercial put out.  It'll remind folks of the importance of Obamacare, it's relationship to RomneyCare and finally Romney's promise to repeal Obamacare.  It'll tick off the GOP base by reminding them of Romenycare and the normal folks by showing how devoid of compassion a Romney presidency would be.


    My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right.—Carl Schurz
    Give 'em hell, Barry—Me

    by KingBolete on Thu Aug 09, 2012 at 01:31:32 PM PDT

  •  they are reaching (0+ / 0-)

    they are grasping at straws

  •  on the mark halperin 'accusation of murder.. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tb mare, skohayes, freshwater dan

    meme. he the biggest idiot in the world.  
    DC Dem people:  pls for the love of baseball, keep the spine thing you're all trending on.  mark H is a full on douche.  if he says 'you guys are over the line, accusing Mitt of murder',  you reply, 'shut up Mark, that is stupid. The accusation stops at Mitt gutting the company.'

    i need a rails developer to help me with a cool map project

    by rasfrome on Thu Aug 09, 2012 at 01:50:41 PM PDT

  •  Someone else will ALWAYS get (0+ / 0-)

    the raw end of the deal.

    That's why Joe Soptic got the raw end of the deal when Mitt Romney was CEO and sole owner of Bain Capital.
    That's the only kind of deal Mitt makes, and he will never be at the wrong end of it.

    His campaign is about putting more than 300M Americans at the raw end of the deal.

    We are sooooo lucky he and his campaign operatives are so incompetent. But they could be just smart enough to steal this election, so we Democrats have to be smarter, and we have to GOTV like our lives depended on it.

    Because they do.

    "I think in America, the opposite of poverty is justice." Bryan Stevenson

    by gfre on Thu Aug 09, 2012 at 01:51:09 PM PDT

  •  Romney campaign doesn't get the enormity (0+ / 0-)

    This mans wife died, and she did not have proper health care.   The idea that the Obama campaign knew about him and his wife sort of implies that his situation is unique, and reps from the Obama campaign should have remembered this one sad unique story.

    Well, the story is sad, but it is FAR from unique, and singling out this guy as representative of this story is ponitless.   There are literally 1000's of people like his wife

    I've read numbers from 20,000 to 45,000 EVERY YEAR who die because, like this woman, they had no health care.

    If this was one isolated case, I would expect Cutter to remember it.     I only hope that in my lifetime, we will get to a point where an isolated case of a person dying without health coverage will be rare and unique.

    Today. as tragic as it is, it is just one of legion.  Rather than arguing wheather Cutter remembered this one story, she should ask if Romney can name any of the OTHER 20-45,000 each year who died without proper care.

    Religion gives men the strength to do what should not be done.

    by bobtmn on Thu Aug 09, 2012 at 02:13:11 PM PDT

  •  Ah Jeeze .. (0+ / 0-)

    What we have here is another "Joe the Plumber"

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

  •  To me, the Priorities USA ad was over the line (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    VClib, annecros

    it essentially blamed Romney for this woman's death from cancer, notwithstanding the facts that (1) she still had health insurance for some time after the plant closed and her husband lost his job; (2) she lost her own health insurance later for reasons completely unrelated to Mitt Romney -- an injury; (3) the cancer wasn't discovered until 2006.  (Soptic says that when he lost his job, "my family lost their insurance" which was not true as to his wife; and Soptic says "shortly after" he lost his insurance, she was diagnosed with cancer, when it was five years.)  I have sympathy for Mr. Soptic's loss, but this ad is incredibly misleading.  

    There is a difference between (1) running ads talking about business being concerned about profits over the jobs and livelihood of the employees -- true; and (2) blaming Mitt Romney for the tragic death of this woman from cancer in 2006 -- patently false and over the line.

    And when Obama's campaign refuses to distance itself from the ad, or say a simple " I think the ad goes over the line and we wouldn't run it," and when the Obama campaign uses "we don't know the facts" when the person who says it hosted a press conference callintroducing Soptic for the purpose of his telling his story to the press, they have lost the moral high ground to complain about misleading Romney ads.  

    In other words, this event gives the right the ammunition to say, "both sides do it."   Yes, it's effective.  And I understand that many will say that the ends justify the means, an it's ok to fight dirty when the other side is doing it.  But if that's the attitude, then you lose all credibility when you show outrage over lies that you accuse the other side of telling.  

    All it would take is the Obama campaign to say something like this: "That ad is misleading.  Governor Romney did not have a role in this tragic death.  We would not run it.  But we want people to remember the legitimate point that when Bain closed businesses in the name of profit, people lost their jobs.  That's a true fact."  If they did something like that, I would withdraw everything I am saying here.  But instead, they had Stephanie Cutter say she "didn't know the facts" of Mr. Soptic's case despite the fact that she hosted him to tell his story in a press conference call.    

    I know I'm in the minority here. Flame away.  

  •  I wonder how it feels (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tb mare

    To put 100's or 1000's of out of healthcare and walk away with a big fat bonus for it.

    How does one's conscience allow it? Especially when you are already extremely wealthy.

    Paul Ryan won't be able to make this guy pretty...

    Mitt the twit.

    ...the train's got its brakes on and the whistle is screaming.

    by themank on Thu Aug 09, 2012 at 02:38:49 PM PDT

  •  Romney Can't Defend His Bain Record (0+ / 0-)

    The fact is this: Romney doesn't want a debate on his Bain record, because he can win it. Here's my video at Politics & A Beer:

  •  This whole episode is confusing (0+ / 0-)

    No one fully understand what's what. It's turned into noise on both sides.

    No one won this battle. The Saul comment about Romneycare is wasted. The original PUSA ad was clear cut but the responses to it and counter responses don't make any sense. It's now a jumbled mess out of a story that sad but took too many shortcuts to tell.

    It's summer, the Olympics are still on and this story has now gotten to complicated for the average person to consume for consideration.

  •  how can you tell (0+ / 0-)

    when a republican is lying, yep you guessed it, when their lips are moving.

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