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I have always said about my family that one had to at least tolerate, if not embrace three things to survive:  science fiction, gaming and history. My husband and I are history geeks, and we raised our children the same way.

One of the nice things about living here in New England is all the history here.  Ideas from where I visit come fast and furious, it sometimes feels like I have ADD; look here, look over there, ooooh isn't this new thing interesting.  Right now I have several history projects on the burner.   One of those projects has King Philip's War at it's core.  I am in my third year of research.

If Korea is this nation's "forgotten war," King Philip's War has gotten lost in an deep tunnel, inside a cavern, wrapped in lead, stuff in a Faraday Cage, and dropped  to the bottom of a deep memory hole.  If people, who don't live in New England remember their history book mentioning this war at all, it's in the "Oh gawd can't we hurry up and get to something relatatable like the Revolution" first weeks of the school year part.   It's sad that we haven't engaged teens to see the revelancy of those times and that war, especially since the echos have rippled through time and can still be heard in events today.  

"King Philip," is actually the name the English gave to Metacom (Metacomet), second son of Massasoit  Ousamequin, the sachem of the Wampanoag, who saved the Pilgrims from starving their first winter in 1620.  In 1621 Massasoit negotiated a treaty with the English.  While this treaty did keep the peace, through the years that followed the peace was increasingly difficult to keep.  

The arguments and complaints against the English were plentiful; they wanted more land, their numbers kept increasing, and their presence diminished the game available.  The English farmers let their pigs roam free, and those "free range" pigs often raided the Native American food stores.  Sachem Ousamequin had to walk a balance beam keeping the peace between two peoples and two different cultures. Sometimes it was easy, just sell land to the English.  Other times it was very hard.

One such occasion was when John Woodcock, who established a small settlement on the "Bay Path" (a foot path Native Americans used to traverse through present day Massachusetts and Rhode Island), "entered" a Native American's home took property and kidnapped a child, in payment for a debt he believed owed him.  

He was fined by the English 40 shillings and sentence to the stocks.

When the Great Sachem (Massasoit means "Great Sachem")  Ousamequin of the Wampanoag, and the Wampanoag Confederacy, died around 1660/1661, his first son, Wamsutta, became sachem.

Accounts differ as to who requested the English names from Plymouth Colony for  Ousamequin's sons.  Some accounts say that  Ousamequin himself requested them to signal a willingness to get along with the English.  Other accounts say that it was Wamsutta, when he became Massasoit who requested them, to better able himself and his siblings to move between both societies more easily.  Whomever requested them  "massasoit" became "king."  Wamsutta took the name "Alexander" and Metacom, his brother, took the name "Philip."

Taking an English name didn't seem to help much, as [King] Alexander Pokanoket, was still a"pagan Indian." The "other."  He soon fell under suspicion for his land dealings.

To answer questions about those dealings, the English, under command of  Major Josiah Winslow, captured Wamsutta around Halifax, Massachusetts and took him by force to Duxbury, MA and then on to Marshfield, MA for questioning/interrogation about a rumored Indian Upraising. (On modern day roads the walk takes 6 hours and covers 18 miles) From Marshfield he went  to settlements in the Massachusetts Bay Colony (wikipedia says it was Salem), but fell ill and return to his home in current Swansea, Massachusetts/Bristol, Rhode Island area (Mt. Hope) - (Where in N.E., so you can see the location)  

Before he was able to reach to his home, Wamsutta died.  The Wampanoag's believe he was poisoned by the English, and with this turn of events Metacom, Philip, at about the age of 25 became sachem/massasoit/king.

From almost the very beginning Philip/Metacom had problems.  He was convinced that the English murdered his brother, and his own people had even more complaints about the English; that their number was increasing, that they did not respect the Wampanoag's or any First Nation's values/traditions/culture, that more of their livestock were wandering free and getting into food stores, there was even less game, the English now held more land than the Wampanoags, and some felt that they are not only being cheated on the sale of land but on every deal with the English, including the English Justice system.

In 1667 Philip was accused of plotting with the Dutch and the French to go to war with them against the English.  He protested his innocence and the peace was kept.  Then in 1671 an English colonist informed Plymouth that the Wampanoags and the Narragansetts were preparing for war against the English.  Whether they were or not is modernity's guess.  This time King Philip, is summond to Taunton, Massachusetts, by Plymouth authorities.  There they pressured him to sign the "Taunton Agreement." (doc)

The "Taunton Agreement" was a humiliation.  In it King Philip confesses his plan to attack the English, the Wampanoags   "ancient"  friends, and to give up their arms.

Whereas my Father, my Brother, and my self, have formally submitted ourselves and our People unto the Kings Majesty of England, and to the Colony of New Plimouth, by solemn Covenant under our Hand; but I having of late through my Indiscretion, and the Naughtiness of my Heart, violated and broken this my Covenant with my Friends, by taking up Arms, with evil intent against them, and that groundlessly; I being now deeply sensible of my Unfaithfulness and Folly, so desire at this Time solemnly to renew my Covenant with my ancient Friends, my Fathers Friends above mentioned, and do desire that this may testify to the World against me if ever I shall again fail in my Faithfulness towards them (that I have now, and at all Times found so kind to me) or any other of the English Colonies; and as a real Pledge of my true Intentions for the Future to be Faithful and Friendly, I do freely engage to resign up unto the Government of New Plimouth, all my English Arms, to be kept by them for their Security, so long as they shall see Reason. For true Performance of the Premises, I have hereunto set my Hand, together with the Rest of my Council.

- Taunton Agreement

King Philip entered Taunton a free man and left a subject of the crown.  He "agreed" to give up not only the weapons they were carrying when they entered Taunton, but also the arsenal of his people.  Due to another signed agreement, King Philip was to deliver those weapons by September or face heavy fines.

The humiliation only served to sew more distrust among the Wampanoags and the English each building up their own weapons caches. Then in January 1675 the match was lit that would set fire to the whole kindling pile of New England-First Nation relations.

Christianized Native American John Sassamon went to visit Governor Josiah Winslow to warn him him that, again, the Wampanoags were planning on waging war against the English.   Since his was a "Praying Indian" he had acted as liaison between cultures and between King Philip and the Plymouth authorities.  Just days before, however, under questions of duplicity, King Philip had dismissed Sassamon from his service.

After his visit with Winslow, Sassamon's body was found under the ice near his home.  Three Wampanoags were charged with his murder.  In what was seen by many, then and now, as a show trial, the three Native Americans were found guilty and hanged.

One of the bloodiest wars in American History began June 1675, six months after the death of Sassamon.  Days after the verdict and execution.  The war raged all over New England, from present day Maine, New Hampshire and Massachusetts to Rhode Island and Connecticut too. The combatants were the Wampanoags, Nipmucks, Podunks, Narragansetts, Nashaways, Mohegans, Pequots, Abenaki and the New England Confederation(English Colonists).

Metacom was killed on August 12, 1676 by by a group of rangers led by Captain Benjamin Church, in what is now Bristol, Rhode Island.  Church's next target was Metacom's war leader Sachem Anawan.  

Anawan was not with Metacom and Church began looking for him, patrolling what is now Bristol, Rhode Island, Church captured several groups of Wampanoags and learned that  Anawan and about 50 men, women and children were hold up in a swamp in what is now Rehoboth, MA.

They were on the run and hiding in what might be described as a great outcropping of conglomerate rock in the shape of a "C".  Three sides of the rock are protected from major encroachment  by a swamp.  The fourth side, the back of the "C" is steep.

The walls of the "C" are probably over 15 feet high.

It was here that Captain Benjamin Church found them, silently scaling and then descending the rock face surprising Anawan.  The Sachem, under promised of amnesty surrendered for the  for the good of his people.  He may have known that the promise meant little and would be broken.   In a scenario that would repeat itself time and again the English promised amnesty but then executed the high ranking Native American.  Anawan was executed.

Anawon Rock  from Wikimedia Commons.

It was here that I met up with history Saturday.  I had been wanting to go to Anawan Rock, the place that Anawan surrendered for a long time. Saturday just seemed the time to do it.

The site is not well marked, which is why I missed it the other times I went looking.  That great sign is inside the parking area. Out on Route 44 there is just  little sign.

I got out of the car and began taking pictures, only to find out that I had forgotten to replace the memory card, so the camera was useless.  I placed it and my purse in the trunk of my car and pressed on without it.

I had, here-to-fore, not seen many pictures of the rock, sort of knowing that it wouldn't do it justice or give perspective  I also hadn't viewed any videos on the subject.  Why?  I don't know, it never crossed my mind.  The videos below are what I found yesterday. I really didn't know what to expect as I walked down the gravel path.  I saw one tree that had been carved with people's initials, and recalled that I had read about this in one of my books.

Very quickly, even for me, I came upon the "back" of the rock, where a bench sits and the gravel path ends.  It was my intention to circumambulate it so I had to decide which way to go.  I chose left.  It was alternately hard and easy.  I mused at how I hadn't planned this too well, trekking this rough path in my Birkenstocks.  

However with acknowledging my bad choice of footwear came a spark of an idea, an explanation to a difference in modern historical opinion.  Some historians argue that this isn't the correct rock because they can scale it easily where Church said it was difficult.  This  may have everything to do with footwear.  Was the buckled shoe the Puritans of the 1600s wore  a good shoe with good traction?  Especially for scaling a rock in the dark stealthily?   Our modern footwear may be better at that job then what was worn in days of old.

The poor choices of clothing didn't end with my feet, I was also wearing a broadcloth dress that came to mid calf, with nothing else on my legs. And I didn't have any insect replant with me.  I was  walking though plants and inches from the swamp - okay so I did this on a spur of the moment, I wasn't really thinking this through, the spirit moved me, sort of thing.  I was going to get eaten up by mosquitoes.

I took small breaks to gather my breath in the humidity and to listen and feel the place.  I was alone, and I liked it that way.

A few more steps and I was beginning to loose sight of the "entry area."  An overwhelming sense of foreboding came over me, and I began to think that doing this alone may not have been the such a great idea, I could be putting myself in danger.  The same rock that Anawon had chosen to hide his people and keep them safe could hide anything that could befall me.

I decided to press on and as quickly as the feeling came over me, it left.

It was a valid observation, but  I dismissed it as just reacting to what I knew happened here.  I smiled to myself thinking that someone might think I was sensitive to the emotions left at this place.

A few more steps and I felt tremendous sorrow.   It was so quick and overwhelming that I put my hand on my chest. Now it was either or, take your pick.  I was either reacting to my knowledge or something paranormal was going on.  I walked on.

I said to myself "all I am looking for is the encampment spot" and just as I said it I stepped onto that spot.  My eyes slowly scanned the area, as I took it all in.  Though not a good defensible position, on the run, it was a great hiding spot.

Something moved in me and I whispered "I'm sorry."

I don't know why, I couldn't and can't explain it.  The place, though no lives were lost here, felt sacred.

As I  walked the area I imagined Anawan and his people, I marveled at how so many could stay in the spot.  I noticed the life of the area, he plants, the, fungi, the birds and what had been throughout my walk a noticeable absence of mosquitoes, well of much bug life.  Not in the quantity you'd expect in a swamp.

When I reached the other edge of the "C" to start going back it was hard to miss all the graffiti, the initial carved trees, and some rock painting.  It reminded me of one of my mother's sayings whenever she saw this kind vandalism:

Fools names, and also faces, can often be found in public places.
But I realized that none of them would achieve the immortality that these people had, whether we, or I, knew their names or not.

This time in a stronger but still quiet voice I said "I'm sorry" again, and walked around the other side of the magnificent "pudding rock."

To me, this war and this ending marks the real beginning of the codification of the removal and extermination of the First Nations, the Native American.  While some Native Americans were allowed to remain in New England, many were chased out, hunted and killed or were enslaved.  Several hundred including Metacom's wife and son, were sold as slaves headed to Bermuda.  Even the friendly "Praying Indians" weren't spared.

It also was the beginning of a pattern of humiliations, and war that repeated itself over and over again.

I finished walking around the rock.  Then sitting on the bench I debated whether I should come back with my camera, though I am glad I didn't have it.  It would have been a distraction.  I quietly walked to my car, and drove away, still feeling the sacredness of the site.

As I said I hadn't seen any videos of the site before Sunday.  I originally chose this one so you could see the little sign on Rt. 44 marking the spot.  Paranormal explanations and sites are kind of common place in New England.

Oh and no, I wasn't eaten by mosquitos.  In fact I didn't collect any bites at all.

King Philip's War: The History and Legacy of America's Forgotten Conflict
by Eric B. Schultz and Mike Tougias
(Excellent book to find sites of the war)

Originally posted to Clytemnestra on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 09:48 AM PDT.

Also republished by History for Kossacks, Native American Netroots, Invisible People, and Massachusetts Kosmopolitans.

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Comment Preferences

  •  I'm sure you've read Jill Lepore on this (15+ / 0-)

    Just in case, The Name of War: King Philip's War and the Origins of American Identity. Great analysis of place!  I'm republishing this to History for Kossacks because of that.

    -7.75, -8.10; All it takes is security in your own civil rights to make you complacent.

    by Dave in Northridge on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 09:56:51 AM PDT

  •  A couple of weeks ago we were wandering around (10+ / 0-)

    the stones at Carnac, all three prerequisites were met.

    History all 5000 years of it.

    Gaming: More the physical variety but fun all the same.


    No, tsk, tsk,  more the running around variety with the dogs.

    Science fiction; well you cannot help but speculate.

    "Another world is not only possible, she is on her way. On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing." Arundhati Roy

    by LaFeminista on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 10:04:27 AM PDT

  •  Nice story, thanks (6+ / 0-)

    I've had that experience, especially in New England. The stones sometimes speak.

    Another good history is Nathaniel Philbrick's Mayflower, which is not nearly as whitewashed as earlier histories. Gets quite down and dirty, in fact.

    If you go along the coastline in Connecticut, somewhere around Old Lyme is a point of land called Sachem's Head. There's a reason, and a nasty story, for that.

    "This writing business. Pencils and what-not. Over-rated, if you ask me. Silly stuff. Nothing in it." -- Eeyore

    by Mnemosyne on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 10:55:14 AM PDT

  •  another book (6+ / 0-)

    well worth reading, especially in New England, is Names on the Land: A Historical Account of Place-Naming in the United States. I read it years ago, still have a copy around here somewhere [scrabbles through stacks of books], and I'm happy to see that it's still, or again, in print.

    "This writing business. Pencils and what-not. Over-rated, if you ask me. Silly stuff. Nothing in it." -- Eeyore

    by Mnemosyne on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 11:00:21 AM PDT

  •  Great history lesson, we need to learn about our (6+ / 0-)


    I grew up in Arizona and was raised by my New England transplant grandparents. I got a lot of history lessons growing up first hand. mY Grand dad was the crew chief on the Hindenburg ground crew and was around when the Navy flew it's first planes off an 'aircraft carrier'.

    I got so interested I had to move to New England and work there for several years just to see some of the history for myself.

    Boy did Waswhington sleep in a lot of places. I thought they were fake there were so many but later found that he just traveled a lot due to events of the time.

    I loved New England, it is so pretty in the fall and the people so nice. I bought a little Spitfire and put more miles on it than it could handle. I once went to every one of the thirteen states in just one weekend.

    Conservatives supported slavery, opposed women’s suffrage, supported Jim Crow, opposed the 40-hour work week, the abolishment of child labor, and supported McCarthyism. from 'It's The Conservatism, Stupid' by Paul Waldman July 12, 2006

    by arealniceguy on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 11:10:29 AM PDT

  •  I grew up in Simsbury, CT and used to hike (5+ / 0-)

    Talcott Mountain State Park as a child with my family. We used to visit King Philip's Cave up on the mountain, although I was too young to be able to climb down to the cave itself (my mother would wait with me and my younger sister while my Dad, older sister, and brother would climb down). We grew up with the legend that King Philip sat there and watched Simsbury burn during King Philip's War.

    A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit. - Greek proverb

    by marleycat on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 11:18:05 AM PDT

  •  I had ancestors in that war (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Clytemnestra, weck, FarWestGirl, SadieSue

    See The History of King Philip's War by Increase Mather and Cotton Mather.  Obviously, the book is written from the opinion of the white settlers.  Since the copyright expired long ago, the book is available for a free download.

    I have both maternal and paternal ancestors who were there.  My primary maternal colonial New England ancestors almost all settled in Marshfield, MA.  My primary paternal ancestors mostly settled in RI, and many were Quakers.

    On page 58 of Mather's account of King Philip's War there is a footnote that in Oct 1675 Desire Sherman received £20 in relief for her family because her husband, William Sherman, Jr. 'fell distracted' in the service of their country in that war.  In other sources, it was said William Sherman "suffered from bouts of temporary insanity" as a result of what he saw in King Philip's War.  Desire was the daughter of Edward Doty of the Mayflower.

    There is, in fact, a separate Sherman family in RI with roots in Essex, England and they are also my ancestors.  So far, if there is any familial connection between Desire's first husband and the RI Shermans, it's not been found.  Desire's first husband died young, which may have been a blessing in disguise since he seems to have suffered from PTSD; she went on to marry two more times, had children with all three husbands, and outlived all three.  Because of descendant relationships, I am twice-descended from Wm. & Desire.

    Thomas Mumford is also my ancestor.  His wife was Sarah Sherman, daughter of Philip Sherman, which is how I descend from the RI Shermans.  [Two of my ancestors, Philip Sherman and John Coggeshall, signed the Portsmouth Compact.]

    During King Philip's War the Great Swamp Fight occurred on Mumford's land.
    One John Tefft (who had sons named Samuel and Joshua; Samuel is my ancestor, along with their father, John Tefft) went out looking for his son, Joshua, during the Great Swamp Fight, and John was killed by Indians.

    On page 108 there's a footnote about Joshua Tefft (Mather uses the Tift spelling) being hanged, drawn, and quartered.  He said he had been captured by the Indians, no one believed him.  Allegedly, he fired at the colonists (whether anyone died from his bullets is not mentioned).  Joshua was, however, married to an Indian woman and had one son by her.  Oddly (or in a "Whoops, we made a mistake!" gesture), Joshua's lands were not confiscated by the crown, but passed on to his son and only child.

    Scroll down to see the pix of "Smith's Castle" on the Wickford, RI Wikipedia page:

    During the conflict known as King Phillip's War, the only incident of an individual being hanged, drawn and quartered for treason on American soil took place at Smith's Castle in 1676. Joshua Tefft, an English colonist accused of having fought on the side of the Narragansett during the Great Swamp Fight, was executed by this method.
    Anyone who has ancestors from colonial America can't help but find out about early American history.  People who only copy the work of others for their genealogy pedigrees disgust me.  Why bother if they're not going to actually read the events in which their ancestors participated or knew about?  IMHO, they can't legitimately call themselves genealogists unless they read contemporary records and/or get copies of original records (when available).  Sometimes one only has books to rely on for colonial records.

    I well believe you had to feel the sacredness of the place.  It is sacred in that so many people died there - mostly Indians, yes, but also colonists.

    More than a century later, I had maternal and paternal ancestors in the Revolutionary War, the last record for one was at Valley Forge and I've no idea where/when he died, and the rest apparently made it home unharmed..., and one on my maternal side who was a Loyalist.

    I refrain from judging any of them for the simple reason I was not alive then.  They are responsible for the lives they led, the beliefs they had..., and without them, I wouldn't be here.

    I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

    by NonnyO on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 11:45:03 AM PDT

    •  We are still looking into whether we were here and (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      weck, NonnyO, FarWestGirl, SadieSue

      or involved in the Revolutionary War.  (Through my mother who's mother was Irish and father Scottish) We get as far as 1798 doing genealogy research on the web.  We get stopped in Ohio and will need to go there to further the research.

      Thinking that we might be eligible for the DAR sent me into fits of laughter - especially thinking if one of my sons from my second marriage has a daughter then she along with her 1/2 Pakistani descent will be eligible. For some reason that thought always makes me laugh.

      I don't know if I can stomach reading anything by the Mathers - the lies told and things done in Northeastern MA have not left me with even a tolerable opinion of them, much less a good one.

      Part of my project  that uses the 1660s as it's setting touches on mental illness during that time.

      But wow nonnyO I am blown over by your family history.

      Anyone who has ancestors from colonial America can't help but find out about early American history.  People who only copy the work of others for their genealogy pedigrees disgust me.  Why bother if they're not going to actually read the events in which their ancestors participated or knew about?  IMHO, they can't legitimately call themselves genealogists unless they read contemporary records and/or get copies of original records (when available).  Sometimes one only has books to rely on for colonial records.
      I think it's the old "form" and "substance" argument.  You want (heck, I want) the substance but there are others who only want the cred.

      Bumper sticker seen on I-95; "Stop Socialism" my response: "Don't like socialism? GET OFF the Interstate highway!"

      by Clytemnestra on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 12:22:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  First census: 1790 (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        That means that if you have the name of the head of household in OH, you should be able to find him in 1790, perhaps 1800 or 1810, depending on his age.  Heck, I've even occasionally seen the name of a female as the head of household (esp. if she's a widow).

        Not a lot of info in those first decades, but it gives the name of head of household, number of males between which ages, number of females between which ages (and, sadly, number of slaves if the household has any).

        If you get lucky, birth/marriage/death records might actually be online.  Shocked me speechless to find some images of original documents on FamilySearch web site, but I've found info on my sil's family and downloaded the images from two different states.  Scroll down on the home menu, click on United States, and all available states where there are records available show up.  Federal Census data is indexed, so you should be able to find people via that index..., then, if the images are in the "not free" sections and links get you to a pay web site, switch to - link below - and find the image(s) by location and then name as you scroll through the images.  Some sections have free access to images and downloads..., but you have to register.  I registered with a throw-away address, but it gets me access to free images wherever possible.

        Internet Archive has census images online, for free..., but no index.  If you have a location, click on the appropriate year, then state, then find the county/township and start scrolling through the images.

        The other option is to subscribe to, but that one is a bit tricky.  Once they have your credit card number, they'll resubscribe you if you don't write and cancel the subscription on the date it expires.  Ancestry does have some early military records, but the ones I need for my uncle in WWII isn't online on Ancestry or NARA.

        If you know your family has famous names from way back when (or try alternate spellings if you know them), do a Google search, then go to the scroll menu entitled More, click on Books.  Those with expired copyrights are a free download.  [I paid $50 for a hardcover edition of a reprint of a genealogy book for one of my RI ancestral lineages at a reprint place I found online; the copyright was 1898..., and a few years later when Google put books online with expired copyrights, I found the exact same book online!  Still, I'm glad I have the hardcover reprint.]  I've found genealogy books for several colonial ancestral lines in books with expired copyrights, and I've downloaded them.  There are all kinds of goodies on the Google Books section!  I even found a letter to the editor my maternal grandfather wrote in the early 20th century when he was only a teenager that ended up in a magazine copied by Google Books.  Coulda knocked me over with a feather to find that obscure tidbit from a magazine that went out of business like half a century ago or more!

        Google is your friend.... :-)

        I admire you going after original sources and original words and records.  It really is quite an adventure and you have to find out about a whole lot of miscellaneous trivia (actually necessary to know to find some things).  For me, family history/genealogy books are shortcuts, but I can supplement that with copies of original documents whenever it's possible (some transcribed records are wrong; whenever possible I get copies of original documents - I'm getting pretty good a deciphering old handwriting on two continents and four languages, all going back some 400+/- years, including abbreviations in some cases.  :-)  Like I said: necessary trivia info...!

        Have fun!

        I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

        by NonnyO on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 03:25:29 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I think our problem and why we need (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          to go to Ohio is that we need to go to some backwater hall of records/townhall etc. office that has yet to hear of the interwebs.  Hopefully after we get past the road block of what was the name of so and so's father and where did he hail from, we should be good to continue.

          Thank you though, I'm sure this will help.  I'll send it on to my daughter too ... maybe she can unjam the river before we  are forced to go to Ohio

          Bumper sticker seen on I-95; "Stop Socialism" my response: "Don't like socialism? GET OFF the Interstate highway!"

          by Clytemnestra on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 04:02:26 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Oh, and PS (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        I don't like the Mathers either..., but reading them I get an idea how their neighbors thought, only the neighbors didn't leave any written records - and, horrible to say, but even a glimpse into the culture of the time when my ancestors lived in the same area is one of those things that falls under the category of 'necessary trivia info,' even if the knowledge is unpleasant.

        It can open up new avenues of research, too.

        I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

        by NonnyO on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 03:31:52 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  yes I know ... but I save those unpleasantries for (1+ / 0-)
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          the very last

          then with lots of goodies to reward myself for venturing into the dreck, I plunge in. :-)

          Bumper sticker seen on I-95; "Stop Socialism" my response: "Don't like socialism? GET OFF the Interstate highway!"

          by Clytemnestra on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 03:58:41 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  How interesting - (2+ / 0-)
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      NonnyO, Clytemnestra

      I'm a descendent of Edward Doty on my mother's side!  A fun story about this is that one of my Dad's history students (he was a history professor) who became a close friend of our family is a direct descendent of Stephen Hopkins.  Tootie was always so embarrassed that her family owned someone from my mother's family.  Ah, New England, where "ancient" history still plays a part in modern day life! ;-)

      You can lose the Republic on an installment plan every bit as efficiently as you can with a coup d'etat. Bruce Fein, Censure Hearings, March 31, 2006

      by SadieSue on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 05:33:59 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Early family history... (1+ / 0-)
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        ... is quite interesting in that one is tied to almost everyone in one community by virtue of the genetic bottleneck that occurred.  Of the white settlers, there were limited opportunities for spouses, so one ends up either biologically related, or tied by step- or half-sibling status, or by in-law status when a sibling married another near neighbor.  If one spouse died, the widow or widower remarried astonishingly fast.  Sometimes they had other offspring, sometimes not, depending on the age they were when their spouse died.

        Desire's third husband was Alexander Standish, widower after his wife, Sarah Alden, died.  Desire's daughter by her first husband, Experience Sherman, married Alexander's son, another Miles, whose mother was Sarah Alden.  [Yes, I know.  Since Desire married three times, had children by all three husbands and outlived them, and Alexander married twice and had children by both wives, one needs pedigree charts to diagram the whole thing.  I think in pedigree lines.]

        I'm actually tied to more than one Mayflower family.  John Carver, the first governor who was elected when they were still aboard the Mayflower, is the uncle of my Robert Carver of Marshfield (Robert's father was Isaac Carver and he stayed behind in Leyden when the other Separatists set out from Holland).  Missing info for Robert: the name of the ship he arrived on and the date/year, but I have the data from the time he was made a freeman forward.  One of Robert's descendants was Jonathan Carver, for whom Carver County, Minnesota is named.  Jonathan's father was a sibling of one of John Carver's offspring (Robert's son, John, was an only child, but he had a huge family after he married).  Gov. Carver and his wife, Catherine, had no children who survived infancy, but there are mentions of two who died as babies, so no one descends from those two.

        My maternal Sherman-Doty line comes through two offspring of their youngest son, Ebenezer Sherman and his wife, Margaret DeCrow.  Abigail Sherman (after filing a paternity suit against him in 1733; I have copies of the court papers; the suit was dismissed in 1734, apparently after they married since the couple went on to have more children) married Caleb Carver; Abigail's youngest brother, Elisha Sherman, married Lydia Walker.  Abigail and Caleb's eldest son from that paternity suit, my second Caleb, married Abigail Damon (#2 Caleb was a Loyalist, listed on the Massachusetts Banishment Act of 1778; on a lucky fluke and a Google search not long after I got my first computer, I found out about the Banishment Act and that he went to New Brunswick (second son Melzar was listed on the same Banishment Act); I obtained a copy of #2 Caleb's will dated 14 May 1798 and copies of the two deeds he and other Loyalists are listed on when they jointly bought property in New Brunswick).  Elisha and Lydia's daughter, Margaret, married Israel Carver, brother of my #2 Caleb.  Margaret & Israel's daughter, Lydia Carver, married her first cousin, Caleb (#3) Carver, they moved to Vinalhaven, ME where Carver's Harbor is named for Caleb (or so I was told; one of Caleb's great uncles, Thaddeus Carver, also moved to Vinalhaven)....  See?  Need a pedigree chart.  :-)

        George Soule, another Mayflower passenger, is found in my paternal lineage, but without checking I keep forgetting if he's my direct ancestor or one of his descendants married a sibling of another ancestor of mine in Rhode Island.

        In any case, you get the idea with all these families.  When there's a genetic bottleneck, all the multiple siblings, step-siblings, and half-siblings have descendants who are linked to almost everyone else, either directly or indirectly because there are a limited number of available people to marry and have children with.  [I have other Mayflower ties, too, and many other ancestors who arrived on ships right after that, including with the Winthrop Fleet.]

        So, which of the Doty offspring do you descend from?

        I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

        by NonnyO on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 07:34:11 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Embarrassingly, I don't know (2+ / 0-)
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          NonnyO, Clytemnestra

          One of my Mom's cousins did the genealogy when I was much younger & while I adored history of all kinds from a very young age, at the time I wasn't all that interested in the details other than "came over on the Mayflower".  I know there was a copy of the genealogy in my parents' house somewhere but my brother & I cleaned it out a couple of years ago & unless it is still in one of the many, many boxes of miscellaneous papers we still need to go through (it never ends), I never found it.  

          Tracing (retracing, really) my Mom's side is on my "perhaps one of these days" list.  One of my Dad's relatives did a huge 2 volume genealogy for his side so that side is very complete (Dad's ancestor arrived here in 1631).  I've always thought it would be interesting to write a history of the US through my family's history - Mayflower, early arrival, intermarrying with pretty much every wave of immigrants, moving west as people moved west (Mom was from Illinois & Dad from Washington State; they met in grad school at U.Illinois Champagne-Urbana & then ended up back in MA where it all began!), etc.  This is also on my "perhaps one of these days" list.

          And thank you SO much for the description of who married whom & when from your family (& likely some of mine)!  Rationally, I know there weren't many people here so the pool was limited but when you see it laid out like you did it becomes very real!

          And I wish I had your energy & talent for genealogy!

          You can lose the Republic on an installment plan every bit as efficiently as you can with a coup d'etat. Bruce Fein, Censure Hearings, March 31, 2006

          by SadieSue on Tue Aug 14, 2012 at 09:08:04 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  :-) Genealogy... (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            SadieSue, Clytemnestra

            ... is pretty much all I do now.  I got interested as a result of a genetics project in high school biology class when I was a sophomore in high school (in 1962).  Throughout the first 40 years thereafter, I picked it up and put it down, all depending on what was going on in my life (reading, work, more reading, various hobbies - I'm one of those disgustingly artsy-fartsy types - reading more, college in middle age, more reading, etc.)

            Then along came the internet into my home with my first PC just after spinal surgery which occurred just after my cousin found fifth cousins in Norway (I used the public library's computers for a year first), the spinal surgery didn't quite take which landed me on the disabled list and in pain 24/7 (I use genealogy research and acquiring new knowledge as a way of keeping my mind off of pain) and from there it just took off and became a force all its own because I also taught myself how to restore images of old photos, make photos from old negatives I inherited, plus through a series of lucky serendipitous events I got documentary proof of ancestors in Norway, Denmark (both countries have their documents online for free, thanks to their taxpayers), Sweden, the northeast states where my ancestors were from, finding the New Brunswick info was a feather in my cap because the fellow who wrote the book on the Carver ancestry in 1938 didn't have the info..., et cetera and so on and so forth.  I have documentary evidence of ancestors from seven different countries.

            So all interests have come and gone and/or are now put away and waiting in the wings again until I find "just one more piece of info on this family tree or for the ancestors of those who married siblings of my parents, grandparents, and gr-grandparents," and genealogy has remained a constant throughout the last fifty years (I'm now 66 years old).  It's certainly the one hobby/obsession that can keep one's mind active while solving multiple puzzles and figuring out which databases in which country to do research, so I never become bored with it.  (I have an extraordinarily low threshold of boredom.)

            If it's true that mentally active people can at least delay Alzheimer's (if they had a genetic predisposition for it), then I may be able to stave it off permanently by continuing to solve genealogy puzzles - for others, if not for myself, since I'm also on multiple genealogy lists and am able to help others sometimes (good karma now that I have knowledge and ability to do so, I'm finally able to 'repay' all the help given to me over the years - I'm a firm believer in 'pass it on' knowledge).

            I hope you get a chance to do genealogy research at some point.  It's really rather fun to try to imagine one's self as one of one's own ancestors for the time period in which some of them lived, not to mention just interesting in a personal history way.  You'll never lack puzzles to solve and the mental agility to acquire the knowledge...!


            I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

            by NonnyO on Tue Aug 14, 2012 at 11:03:29 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  ran out of time to "like" but would if I could (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          Bumper sticker seen on I-95; "Stop Socialism" my response: "Don't like socialism? GET OFF the Interstate highway!"

          by Clytemnestra on Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 10:03:25 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Thank you so much for this diary, Clytemnestra (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    It is a perfect example of one of the reasons I so love living in New England - as you mention, there are marvelous, as well as exceedingly heartbreaking, stories lurking behind practically every rock around here.  Thank you for highlighting one of the more devastating bits of history.

    You can lose the Republic on an installment plan every bit as efficiently as you can with a coup d'etat. Bruce Fein, Censure Hearings, March 31, 2006

    by SadieSue on Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 05:42:45 PM PDT

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