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My daughter and I voted in Florida's primary before I went on vacation last week. Hubby is still an independent, so there was nothing for him to vote for or against. Florida passed a VOTER Suppression law and this was my first election that would make my Voter Registration Card invalid Identification for voting purposes.

Voting was no problem for us because we have valid Florida Driver's Licenses. Yes, we had valid birth certificates, proof of active social security numbers and 2 valid proofs of our residential address when we got our Driver's Licenses.

In our post 9/11 world a Republican majority in 2005 passed the REAL ID Act requiring the States update their State ID and Driver's License issuance requirements so State ID"s and Driver's Licenses could be used for ID to fly or enter federal buildings. The REAL ID Act is now the basis for Voter ID laws in about 31 states. Laws that disproportionately affect voters most likely to vote for Democrats. People who are poor. People who are minorities and people the GOP wants to marginalize. Florida is one of those states that disenfranchises voters.

What does it take to meet Voter ID criteria?

You have to have a government issued ID with a digital photograph of you such as is found on a Driver's License, State ID or Passport. You can use any photo ID of the following: military ID, a credit card or debit card, Student ID, Retirement Center ID and neighborhood association IDs. I was tempted to use my credit card with my picture on it, but I was pressed for time and didn't. The easiest to use is the DL or State ID.

Getting a Driver's License or State ID

If you're a man, single woman or married woman retaining her birth name, you need:

birth certificate
proof of an active social security number - a pay stub or recent document (less than 60 days old) using that number.
2 proofs of residential address

If you are married and changed your name or were married and retained your married name, you need:

birth certificate
marriage license (or divorce decree showing she retained her married name)
proof of social security number - a pay stub or recent document (less than 60 days old) using that number.
2 proofs of residential address

If you are transgender, I'm not sure what additional hoops you get to jump through, but I am sure it will be be both excruciating and aggravating.

If you live in a stable environment, have a decently paid job and don't move very often, these are easy lists to complete. In fact, about 74% of a polled population doesn't see voter ID as a big deal. The marriage certificate is the most likely disqualifier for married and divorced women. Proof of an active Social Security Number is most difficult for the unemployed. If you are transgender, your current gender, if it doesn't match your birth declared gender, will be the sticking point.

If you are a hoarder, pack rat or someone who is simply "organized" you have these documents. If you aren't, well, you get to replace them. If you had your act together, but lost the documents due to fire, hurricane, tornado, theft or other unforeseen disaster, you get to replace them.

Good luck with that.

If you have nothing, no ID whatsoever, you have to prove who you are to get what you need to prove who you are.


The utter senselessness of this exercise is lost on people hell bent on promoting The REAL ID ACT which is behind the current Voter ID laws. In the post 9/11 world you have to prove your identity to open a financial account, get a Driver's License, State ID, and Social Security Number. To get these documents, you must show your Birth Certificate or Passport. To get a passport you must show your Birth Certificate. To get a copy of your Birth Certificate you must declare why you need it (i.e. to get a Driver's License, State ID or Passport). Playing the paper chase game isn't a problem if you have the time and means to do so. It's an unnecessary impediment if you don't.

Birth Certificates in Florida cost $15 (more now) when I got my daughter's some years ago and I had to show my Driver's License to get it. I've heard anywhere from $35 to the $75 I had to pay for mine. Not much unless you live at the poverty rate. Paying $35 for a birth certificate could easily mean no food on the table or skipping on paying a utility bill. Paying $75 can mean no bus pass for a month.

Proof of an active social security number - not a problem if you have a job, just take last week's pay stub. If you are retired, you can use a copy of your last social security statement or a recent statement from any of your financial accounts. If you are unemployed and still receiving benefits, print out a statement from the Unemployment web site and you're good to go. Oh, wait, you're unemployed and the printer is on the fritz. Let's see I can take the bus to the library or internet cafe and print it there....that would be $5. I could go to the Social Security Office - oh, yeah they closed the one near me (and I have to show my non-existent Driver's License or State ID to get a statement). Having proof of an active Social Security Number is not a problem if you have money in the bank - a big deal if you don't. Unemployeed and past 99 weeks? You're SOL. What if you are underemployed or work for cash? What if you don't have a checking or savings account? Too bad, so sad - you don't get ID, don't vote and you might as well eat some worms and die since you don't exist anyway.

Proofs of residence? Not a problem if you receive financial statements by snail mail. If you live with family, you may need to change the name of an account to comply with this one. If you move frequently, good luck. If you elected to receive your statements via email - that could be a problem if you can't print them out or if the government worker won't accept email printouts.



Who cares?

These concepts are beyond 74% of the people who answer Voter ID polls. What's notable is that the Washington Post's polled population was most likely to have the proper ID and because of that fact; they are for voter ID. The population that would never (or rarely) be polled would likely to have a different opinion on this subject. The Washington Post doesn't look at this concept or at the idea that the whiter, richer and more conservative people polled favor Voter ID.

About 5 million people will be disenfranchised due to these Voter ID laws. That's about 2% of the National voter pool - enough to skew an election's results. These people live in swing states. Disenfranchising them is sure to skew the election.

I know a lot of people who live off the grid. They do odd jobs for cash. Some are self-employed and make a lot of money, over $100k per year, who work with cash and money orders. Some simply don't like the lack of privacy of our current, modern world and take pains to stay off the financial grid. They are truly American, but don't like the post 9/11 invasion of privacy.

Voter ID laws are a solution in search of a problem. The proof of wide spread voter fraud at the polls doesn't exist (pdf). Proof of absentee ballot fraud exists, but at a very low rate.

What we are left with is a solution to a non-problem becoming a problem. That suits the hypocritical GOP just fine. This is the party who decries big government, but doesn't mind a big government power grab when it suits them. The same party who promotes deregulation of corporations and over regulation of individual people. The same party that cries out for freedom, then gives up their freedom to feel "safe" (whatever that means). The hypocrisy of Tea Party being against the Real ID Act but for Voter ID laws is the quintessential evidence of the absurdity of these arguments.

I spoke with a Republican on this subject last week. They thought Voter ID was just fine until I asked when they had to renew their Driver's License (it's next year). She was upset that she would need to find a copy of her marriage license or divorce decree before she could renew her license. "But that's wrong!"

It sure is, but not in the way you think it is.

_________________________
Update: Thanks for the rescue

Section 202 of the REAL ID Act that deals with Identification Standards

SEC. 202. MINIMUM DOCUMENT REQUIREMENTS AND ISSUANCE STANDARDS FOR FEDERAL RECOGNITION.

(a) Minimum Standards for Federal Use-

(1) IN GENERAL- Beginning 3 years after the date of the enactment of this division, a Federal agency may not accept, for any official purpose, a driver's license or identification card issued by a State to any person unless the State is meeting the requirements of this section.

(2) STATE CERTIFICATIONS- The Secretary shall determine whether a State is meeting the requirements of this section based on certifications made by the State to the Secretary. Such certifications shall be made at such times and in such manner as the Secretary, in consultation with the Secretary of Transportation, may prescribe by regulation.

(b) Minimum Document Requirements- To meet the requirements of this section, a State shall include, at a minimum, the following information and features on each driver's license and identification card issued to a person by the State:

(1) The person's full legal name.

(2) The person's date of birth.

(3) The person's gender.

(4) The person's driver's license or identification card number.

(5) A digital photograph of the person.

(6) The person's address of principle residence.

(7) The person's signature.

(8) Physical security features designed to prevent tampering, counterfeiting, or duplication of the document for fraudulent purposes.

(9) A common machine-readable technology, with defined minimum data elements.

(c) Minimum Issuance Standards-

(1) IN GENERAL- To meet the requirements of this section, a State shall require, at a minimum, presentation and verification of the following information before issuing a driver's license or identification card to a person:

(A) A photo identity document, except that a non-photo identity document is acceptable if it includes both the person's full legal name and date of birth.

(B) Documentation showing the person's date of birth.

(C) Proof of the person's social security account number or verification that the person is not eligible for a social security account number.

(D) Documentation showing the person's name and address of principal residence.

(2) SPECIAL REQUIREMENTS-

(A) IN GENERAL- To meet the requirements of this section, a State shall comply with the minimum standards of this paragraph.

(B) EVIDENCE OF LAWFUL STATUS- A State shall require, before issuing a driver's license or identification card to a person, valid documentary evidence that the person--

(i) is a citizen or national of the United States;

(ii) is an alien lawfully admitted for permanent or temporary residence in the United States;

(iii) has conditional permanent resident status in the United States;

(iv) has an approved application for asylum in the United States or has entered into the United States in refugee status;

(v) has a valid, unexpired nonimmigrant visa or nonimmigrant visa status for entry into the United States;

(vi) has a pending application for asylum in the United States;

(vii) has a pending or approved application for temporary protected status in the United States;

(viii) has approved deferred action status; or

(ix) has a pending application for adjustment of status to that of an alien lawfully admitted for permanent residence in the United States or conditional permanent resident status in the United States.

(C) TEMPORARY DRIVERS' LICENSES AND

IDENTIFICATION CARDS-

(i) IN GENERAL- If a person presents evidence under any of clauses (v) through (ix) of subparagraph (B), the State may only issue a temporary driver's license or temporary identification card to the person.

(ii) EXPIRATION DATE- A temporary driver's license or temporary identification card issued pursuant to this subparagraph shall be valid only during the period of time of the applicant's authorized stay in the United States or, if there is no definite end to the period of authorized stay, a period of one year.

(iii) DISPLAY OF EXPIRATION DATE- A temporary driver's license or temporary identification card issued pursuant to this subparagraph shall clearly indicate that it is temporary and shall state the date on which it expires.

(iv) RENEWAL- A temporary driver's license or temporary identification card issued pursuant to this subparagraph may be renewed only upon presentation of valid documentary evidence that the status by which the applicant qualified for the temporary driver's license or temporary identification card has been extended by the Secretary of Homeland Security.

(3) VERIFICATION OF DOCUMENTS- To meet the requirements of this section, a State shall implement the following procedures:

(A) Before issuing a driver's license or identification card to a person, the State shall verify, with the issuing agency, the issuance, validity, and completeness of each document required to be presented by the person under paragraph (1) or (2).

(B) The State shall not accept any foreign document, other than an official passport, to satisfy a requirement of paragraph (1) or (2).

(C) Not later than September 11, 2005, the State shall enter into a memorandum of understanding with the Secretary of Homeland Security to routinely utilize the automated system known as Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements, as provided for by section 404 of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 (110 Stat. 3009-664), to verify the legal presence status of a person, other than a United States citizen, applying for a driver's license or identification card.

(d) Other Requirements- To meet the requirements of this section, a State shall adopt the following practices in the issuance of drivers' licenses and identification cards:

(1) Employ technology to capture digital images of identity source documents so that the images can be retained in electronic storage in a transferable format.

(2) Retain paper copies of source documents for a minimum of 7 years or images of source documents presented for a minimum of 10 years.

(3) Subject each person applying for a driver's license or identification card to mandatory facial image capture.

(4) Establish an effective procedure to confirm or verify a renewing applicant's information.

(5) Confirm with the Social Security Administration a social security account number presented by a person using the full social security account number. In the event that a social security account number is already registered to or associated with another person to which any State has issued a driver's license or identification card, the State shall resolve the discrepancy and take appropriate action.

(6) Refuse to issue a driver's license or identification card to a person holding a driver's license issued by another State without confirmation that the person is terminating or has terminated the driver's license.

(7) Ensure the physical security of locations where drivers' licenses and identification cards are produced and the security of document materials and papers from which drivers' licenses and identification cards are produced.

(8) Subject all persons authorized to manufacture or produce drivers' licenses and identification cards to appropriate security clearance requirements.

(9) Establish fraudulent document recognition training programs for appropriate employees engaged in the issuance of drivers' licenses and identification cards.

(10) Limit the period of validity of all driver's licenses and identification cards that are not temporary to a period that does not exceed 8 years.

(11) In any case in which the State issues a driver's license or identification card that does not satisfy the requirements of this section, ensure that such license or identification card--

(A) clearly states on its face that it may not be accepted by any Federal agency for federal identification or any other official purpose; and

(B) uses a unique design or color indicator to alert Federal agency and other law enforcement personnel that it may not be accepted for any such purpose.

(12) Provide electronic access to all other States to information contained in the motor vehicle database of the State.

(13) Maintain a State motor vehicle database that contains, at a minimum--

(A) all data fields printed on drivers' licenses and identification cards issued by the State; and

(B) motor vehicle drivers' histories, including motor vehicle violations, suspensions, and points on licenses.

Originally posted to JDWolverton on Sun Aug 19, 2012 at 10:46 AM PDT.

Also republished by DKos Florida and Community Spotlight.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tips for Voter ID (48+ / 0-)

    The REAL ID Act was passed in 2005, but implemented under President Obama in 2009 and re-embraced by the Republicans in Voter ID laws. All to feel "safe".

    Bunk!

    It's an unabashed attempt to steal an election for the GOP.

    If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never has and never will be. Thomas Jefferson

    by JDWolverton on Sun Aug 19, 2012 at 10:46:04 AM PDT

    •  Your point above (4+ / 0-)

      That you must prove who you are in order to get what you need to prove who you are is important.

      Some, Iowa would be one I'm most familar with, require that if you submit a request by mail for a vital record: birth, marriage, or divorce that you must provide a notarized application and a copy of a current government issued photo i.d..  If you apply in person for the same you must have that photo i.d..  If you pay over the phone by credit card they do not indicate a requirement for photo id but do charge an additional $9. I guess having a credit card makes it acceptable?

      To have a document notarized, some States allow an option for the Notary Public to accept a statement from another party as to someone's identity or to notarize if the person is known to them under that name.  The requirement for a copy of the I.D. is a way to erase that option, with the stated reasoning likely as necessary to reduce the chance for fraud. This opens the question for me why require the notary stamp at all? Maybe that it most cases you must pay for the notarization, unless you're lucky enough to know someone who is a notary who won't charge you.

      This same requirement for a notarized statement and copy of a current government issued i.d. is required for Americans who need to obtain a copy of their Consular Report of Birth Abroad.  The pricing has also shot up to $50 to obtain a copy.  This impacts children of U.S. Service person born abroad as a result of their mother or fathers service,  and many others.

  •  thank you for your diary, JDW (6+ / 0-)

    very informative.  The requirements are utterly onerous.

    I have linked to it in my diary:

    Epidemic of "Premature Congratulatory" Disorder (PCD)

    I belong to the “US” of America, not the “ME,$,ME,$,ME,$” of America!

    by SeaTurtle on Sun Aug 19, 2012 at 11:41:48 AM PDT

  •  Very important diary on very important issue (11+ / 0-)

    I'm willing to bet [less than $10,000] that lots of folks who think they have valid voter ID actually don't, and that getting ID will be a lot harder/expensive/time consuming than people realize. It will be interesting to see whether that 74% who think voter ID isn't a problem will drop substantially after they try to vote in November.

    For some, getting adequate ID will just be a hassle. For others, it will be an economic hardship; if you are lacking any of the necessary documents, there is no way to get them without incurring some expense, whether for fees, transportation, or just copying and postage. Ironically, the Real ID requirements - inspired by the goal of keeping terrorists out of planes, but not yet in effect - are being used to keep citizens out of the voting booth; it's another way that terrorism has restricted our freedom.

    As a further irony, TSA employees seem to have more discretion than election personnel, because the TSA allows exceptions to the ID requirement:

    We understand passengers occasionally arrive at the airport without an ID, due to lost items or inadvertently leaving them at home. Not having an ID, does not necessarily mean a passenger won’t be allowed to fly. If passengers are willing to provide additional information, we have other means of substantiating someone’s identity, like using publicly available databases.
    So it may actually be easier to fly than to vote.

    In earlier times, property qualifications limiting the right to vote were commonplace. They existed in England, in other European countries, in the 13 colonies and after independence in many of the states.  The last one, in North Carolina, remained in place until 1856. Later on, poll taxes in the South disenfranchised some poor whites as well as blacks, and were only struck down at the state level in 1966. Voter ID is only the latest instance of social elites using an economic club to restrict access to the ballot box, and it is antithetical to democracy as we understand it today.

  •  Better safe than sorry. (0+ / 0-)

    Thanks for the information.

    "There's a crack in everything; that's how the light gets in". Leonard Cohen

    by northsylvania on Sun Aug 19, 2012 at 02:18:02 PM PDT

  •  Let's see (6+ / 0-)

    I am 65 years old.  I was first married at age 22 and divorced at age 27.  I remarried at age 32.  I have been retired for a number of years and am on a pension plan.  I have a Social Security card, but have not paid into SS since 1985.  

    For me to renew my driver's license which I have had in the state of Florida for nearly 50 years, I will have to dig through my old documents and find my birth certificate, my marriage license from my first marriage, which I doubt I have, my divorce papers, my second marriage license, and something that validates my Social Security status which I have not paid into for 27 years and am not drawing either.  I also have an expired passport but that probably would not be considered valid identification either.

    In addition, because of arthritis in my hands, my handwriting no longer is the same as it was five years ago and I have cut my hair since my last and only picture ID which is my drivers license.  That is in addition to my having to validate my residence of which all bills are in my husband's name.  The picture ID is the catch 22 in all of this.

    This law discriminates against minorities and poor people, but it also discriminates against married (and divorced) women.  I honestly do not see a true purpose of this as a national security issue.  The government already has enormous data banks on everyone.  They should already now if I am a citizen.

    "Growing up is for those who don't have the guts not to. Grow wise, grow loving, grow compassionate, but why grow up?" - Fiddlegirl

    by gulfgal98 on Sun Aug 19, 2012 at 02:26:33 PM PDT

    •  Luckily, you only need the last document that (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      gulfgal98, FloridaSNMOM

      verifies your current name which would be your second marriage license. ...thank god. I would change one or two of the bills to your name or have the car insurance issued in both of your names. That should do it.

      And, yes, this is ridiculous.

      If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never has and never will be. Thomas Jefferson

      by JDWolverton on Sun Aug 19, 2012 at 05:07:52 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I posted a diary on this last week and this (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JDWolverton, FloridaSNMOM

    is pretty much on the mark of how difficult it is.  Time is of the essence.  I am going to link that diary with yours for the info that was there regarding another hassle in St. Augustine as well if you don't mind.
    There was a quibble about not taking IRS refund and tax statements as proof in lieu of an actual social security card.  I have my DL but my son was getting his transferred from Ga to Fl.
    It is going to be a mess for sure.  My son has a small carpet cleaning business and had lost his card.  We have to drive over 60 miles to get that God awful DL for registration.  What a mess !
    Here is the diary.  thank you for this one and thanks for it being in the spotlight !!!!!!!!  Can't get it out there enough.

    http://www.dailykos.com/...

    We the People have to make a difference and the Change.....Just do it ! Be part of helping us build a veteran community online. United Veterans of America

    by Vetwife on Sun Aug 19, 2012 at 02:35:42 PM PDT

    •  I read your diary and it got me to thinking. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Vetwife, FloridaSNMOM

      Look to see if you have a statement from the Social Security Administration stating your earnings history or request one. That is sufficient on two levels. It confirms your SSN and it confirms your address. That's what the DMV used to renew my license. Also, here in Hollywood, the DMV leased space from AAA and this office is by far the most pleasant DMV office I have ever dealt with in Florida.

      If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never has and never will be. Thomas Jefferson

      by JDWolverton on Sun Aug 19, 2012 at 05:11:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  He had the statement of earnings in (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JDWolverton, FloridaSNMOM

        the packet.  I thought of that.  She would not accept it.

        We the People have to make a difference and the Change.....Just do it ! Be part of helping us build a veteran community online. United Veterans of America

        by Vetwife on Sun Aug 19, 2012 at 05:39:17 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I just rechecked the web site, it's changed since (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          FloridaSNMOM, Flying Goat

          2009. Back then, I had to bring a document that was less than 60 days old with my SSN on it.

          You can use a W-2, Any 1099, an SSA 1099, or a pay check for proof of active SSN.

          It's still a PITA. What's interesting is that due to the inclusion of credit/debit cards and student ID's; Florida's Voter ID law is considered less hard core than the Texas law.

          If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never has and never will be. Thomas Jefferson

          by JDWolverton on Sun Aug 19, 2012 at 05:50:01 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Proof of residence might not be so easy. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JDWolverton

    We get all our utility bills online except for the water bill.  The online utilities are in my husband's name.  Our water bill is addressed to "resident."  We have any banking/credit card statements etc. sent to a p.o. box.  

    Likewise, My employer does not use our social security number on our paystubs--they have replaced it with an employee i.d. number.  I guess one could pull out their most recent w-2 form for that.  

    Does one need all of these i.d.'s if they are already registered to vote?  This seems incredibly onerous to me.  So glad I live in a state where I just go up to the election official and give my name, answer a few questions then go vote!

    “It is the job of the artist to think outside the boundaries of permissible thought and dare say things that no one else will say."—Howard Zinn

    by musiclady on Sun Aug 19, 2012 at 05:26:51 PM PDT

    •  If you have the FL DL with the magnetic strip (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      FloridaSNMOM

      you're ok. They will swipe it in a card reader when you go to vote. If you don't you'll need your voter registration card along with the old driver's license.

      The issue is that when you go to renew your Driver's License (or get a FL State ID), you have to comply with The REAL ID Act's provisions that are posted above.

      It might actually be easier to vote by getting an American Express Card through Costco as they put your picture on it - which is considered acceptable photo ID for Florida voting. Another idea is to enroll in 1 class at a community college and get a student ID.

      It's just hoops to jump through.

      If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never has and never will be. Thomas Jefferson

      by JDWolverton on Sun Aug 19, 2012 at 05:56:48 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •   I bet they don't need your ID to arrest you. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JDWolverton

    It would only be fair if they can't positively prove you are who they think you might be they shouldn't be able to haul you off on a warrant.  

  •  So why is voting a less significant activity than (0+ / 0-)

    the other daily activities one needs a valid ID for?

    Just in the last month I needed one sufficient for voting:

    -- Getting my wife's car repaired.
    -- Checking into a hotel.
    -- Flying (commercial and military)
    -- Buying groceries (and the EBT card-holder in front of me did too)
    -- Buying gas on credit
    -- Obtaining a passport (a former passport sufficed)
    -- Identifying myself as my daughter's parent at her college, at a doctor's office, and at a hospital.

    and so on. I'm not persuaded.

    •  That is the RW Talking Point that generally (4+ / 0-)

      pervades these conversations. If you can't relate, you won't see anything wrong with disenfranchisement.

      Perhaps if you took this challenge, it might give you some perspective. Honestly, I can only do 3 of the things listed for living in poverty.

      Sometimes we have to see past our personal situations to discern when people are losing a right. Sometimes we need to take a stand for people less fortunate than ourselves.

      If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never has and never will be. Thomas Jefferson

      by JDWolverton on Sun Aug 19, 2012 at 06:26:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Scary (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JDWolverton

        I can do five on the poverty listing, most of those on the middle class (having no kids, I'm giving myself a null on those answers rather than a no), and a few on the wealthy listing.

        Attitude-wise, I'm an even split between poverty and middle class with 2 from the wealthy list.

        I can't quite figure out the split, as I am and always have been middle class.

        (-6.25, -6.77) Moderate left, moderate libertarian

        by Lonely Liberal in PA on Sun Aug 19, 2012 at 07:40:21 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I have students who can do all of the things on (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Lonely Liberal in PA

          the poverty list and a few on the middle class list but find the wealthy list to be a waste of money. I know people who are now middle class, but used to live in poverty, they talk about being glad that they don't have to use their poverty skill set anymore. These middle class students still view the some of the wealthy list items as a waste of money, but others they wouldn't mind being able to do. I think the split is attitudinal more so than skill set.

          If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never has and never will be. Thomas Jefferson

          by JDWolverton on Sun Aug 19, 2012 at 08:32:35 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  I fail to see where one's station in life (0+ / 0-)

        is a rationale for preventing the State or a commercial entity from asking the simple question: Can you verify you are who you say you are so we may determine if you are qualified to participate in the activity you are trying to access.

        If one feels the qualifications are too arbitrary, or too discriminatory, challenge them on that basis.

        What "wing" it comes from is irrelevant.

    •  All those are to obtain or access something (0+ / 0-)

      of value (or, in the case of establishing yourself as your daughter's parent, something priceless). A single vote has no monetary value...for the individual who votes, nothing of value is obtained. A single vote has such a tiny influence on the result of the election that individual voter fraud is a total waste of time. Most Americans don't consider voting worth anything at all, which is why so many don't vote.

      "All governments lie, but disaster lies in wait for countries whose officials smoke the same hashish they give out." --I.F. Stone

      by Alice in Florida on Mon Aug 20, 2012 at 10:19:53 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  So what do they do with Illegal Aliens who want (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JDWolverton, Calamity Jean

    DL?  Turn them away?  Or is there a two track system here?

    Seems to me these Voter ID laws and tightening of documentation requirements to get a valid ID have a "two birds with one stone" benefit for the Righties...disenfranchise Democrats and make it tougher for undocumenteds to get an ID or Driver's License...or have they figured out a way to disenfranchise one group while still greasing the skids for another to stay here and pick our crops?

    Oregon: Sure...it's cold. But it's a damp cold.

    by Keith930 on Sun Aug 19, 2012 at 06:24:58 PM PDT

    •  A non-citizen can't vote, but they can get a FL DL (0+ / 0-)

      For a non-citizen to get a FL DL they would need to show their green card or other documentation that shows they are here legally temporarily.

      If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never has and never will be. Thomas Jefferson

      by JDWolverton on Sun Aug 19, 2012 at 08:27:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  So how about a Black gut from Hollywood, FLA (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JDWolverton

        Say he's never had a DL before, but want's to vote.  What does he have to bring to the DMV?  As opposed to ese?

        Oregon: Sure...it's cold. But it's a damp cold.

        by Keith930 on Sun Aug 19, 2012 at 09:28:43 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  That's the problem with these laws and it doesn't (0+ / 0-)

          matter what your race is, but it seems to be more poverty affected. If you live at the poverty rate getting the documents together to prove who you are may be a problem.

          Anyway, to your point:
          A new application for a Voter's Registration Card Needs.

          In order to register to vote in Florida, you must:

          1.    Be a Citizen of the United States of America (a lawful permanent resident is not a U.S. citizen);
          2.    Be a Florida resident;
          3.    Be 18 years old (you may pre-register to vote if you are 16 years old, but you cannot vote until you are 18 years old).
          4.    Not now be adjudicated mentally incapacitated with respect to voting in Florida or any other state without having the right to vote restored;
          5.    Not have been convicted of a felony without your civil rights having been restored; and
          6.   Provide your current and valid Florida driver’s license number or Florida identification card number. If you do not have a Florida driver’s license number or a Florida identification card number then you must provide the last four digits of your Social Security Number. If you do not have any of these items, you must write “none” in the box or field.

          To Vote on election day you must:
          Floridavoters must provide current and valid photo identification at the polling place in order to vote. Acceptable forms of identification include the following:

              Florida identification card
              Florida driver's license
              United States passport
              Debit or credit card
              Military identification
              Student identification
              Retirement center identification
              Neighborhood association identification
              Public assistance identification

          If the photo identification does not contain the voter's signature, an additional identification with the voter's signature is required.

          If you do not present one of the above forms of identification at the polling place, you can vote by casting a provisional ballet. A provisional ballot is a paper ballot counted the day after the election once the county canvassing board has verified that the person was qualified to vote in that precinct and has confirmed the voter's identity.

          Again, these IDs are not a problem for people who've never voted before and have a valid Driver's License. For those who don't change their residence address to often or where a $100 isn't too big a bite out of their budget these ID requirements aren't a problem. The point is that people living on the edge, people who can move within a day do have a problem with these requirements.

          If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never has and never will be. Thomas Jefferson

          by JDWolverton on Mon Aug 20, 2012 at 07:17:04 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Great diary on a very important issue. We (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JDWolverton

    need to help folks we know who might be impacted by this issue, with education about what they need to do to make sure they have valid ID and in the actual physical undertaking of getting it done.  Remind those you know who have recently moved or recently divorced to get moving on replacing old ID's with new valid ones.  Make sure voting aged college students get their chance to vote by either getting absentee ballots from home, or a valid ID where they go to school, if this is an issue.  Make sure older folks you know have valid IDs.  I know my mom doesn't drive anymore and let her license expire and hadn't replaced it with any other type of ID, so we got her a non-driving ID just a few weeks ago.  Anyway, we all need to step up and help those who need it.  It would be more than a shame to lose an election because of this.  Best wishes.

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." - John F. Kennedy

    by helpImdrowning on Sun Aug 19, 2012 at 06:59:34 PM PDT

  •  What do you mean about your "first (0+ / 0-)

    election that would make my Voter Registration Card invalid for identification purposes"? I've been a pollworker in Pinellas County since 2000, and I'm sure the Voter Registration Card (for the last several years it's said "Voter Information Card") has never been valid as identification in that time--Florida has had an ID law in effect since 2000, due to a local election in Miami in the 90s that apparently involved some actual fraud (dead people voting). Originally it wasn't so bad...if you didn't have picture ID, you could sign an affidavit swearing upon penalty of perjury that you were who you said you were, and you could vote. Of course that had to be changed--I think it was in 2007 they changed it so that anyone without ID had to vote a provisional ballot.

    "All governments lie, but disaster lies in wait for countries whose officials smoke the same hashish they give out." --I.F. Stone

    by Alice in Florida on Mon Aug 20, 2012 at 10:32:04 PM PDT

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