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Associated Press reported on the conflicting reports of suspected al-Qaeda leader Badruddin Haqqani's death:

The son of the founder of the powerful Haqqani network was been killed in an airstrike in Pakistan, Afghanistan’s intelligence agency said Sunday, providing the first public confirmation of rumors that have been swirling for days about the key member of a militant group the U.S. considers one of the most dangerous in the region.

The Taliban rejected reports of Badruddin Haqqani’s death, however, saying that he was alive and well in Afghanistan.

The U.S. has refused to comment on the reports that Haqqani was killing in an "airstrike"  - read "drone strike"  - in Pakistan. Ironic, considering U.S. officials had plenty to say when a U.S. citizen (Anwar Al-Awlaki) and then his innocent American son were killed in drone strikes in Pakistan.

Now, even though it appears that - unlike al-Awlaki's son, who was by all reports innocent of terrorist activity - Badruddin Haqqani, son of terrorist network founder Jalaluddin Haqqani, was actually an operational leader in the terrorist network.

Badruddin is considered a vital part of the Haqqani structure and is believed to have played an active role in kidnappings, extortion and high-profile operations in Afghanistan.
The U.S. drone program has international relations consequences beyond even the dire constitutional consequences of killing Americans without a shred of due process, but the American public is relegated to conflicting reports from Afghanistan about the drone program because:
... the U.S. does not comment publicly on its drone program, which is widely reviled by the Pakistani public and has been a source of tension with Islamabad.
More accurately, the government leaks only what it wants to about the drone program, and obscures the rest, leaving the American public at best half-informed about its government's actions.

Despite the assertions that the U.S. does not comment publicly on the drone program, everyone from Attorney General Eric Holder to Counter-terrorism adviser John O. Brennan to the President himself has publicly discussed the drone program.

In March 2012, AG Holder discussed the purported legality of the drone program telling the public,

The American people can be — and deserve to be — assured that actions taken in their defense are consistent with their values and their laws.
Holder's remarks are particularly hypocritical considering the obstructionist posture the Justice Department has taken in FOIA lawsuits to prevent any court oversight of the drone program.  

In remarks in The American people can be — and deserve to be — assured that actions taken in their defense are consistent with their values and their laws.e who the government will target and kill using drone strikes.

In January 2012, Obama himself publicly defended the drone program at an online town hall. NPR has a must-listen piece today on Obama's affinity for the drone program that the U.S. will not comment on.

SULLIVAN: Last fall, one casualty of the U.S.' ramped-up use of drone warfare was a 16-year-old boy, a U.S. citizen named Abdulrahman al-Awlaki [Anwar al-Awlaki's son] as he sat around a campfire in Yemen. It's a story that represents what Tom Junod calls the lethal presidency.

Just last week, Pakistani officials say 18 more people were killed by drones, including possibly a top commander of the Haqqani network.
. . .
JUNOD: And we have no idea why this happened, how this happened, what the standards were. We are kept completely in the dark.

If the government wants to defend the drone program publicly, it should also be obligated to reveal the underlying legal justifications and answer reasonable questions from the press and the media. "Selective transparency" is not transparency.
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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (24+ / 0-)

    My book, TRAITOR: THE WHISTLEBLOWER & THE "AMERICAN TALIBAN," is Amazon's #1 Best Seller in Human Rights Books for February 2012.

    by Jesselyn Radack on Mon Aug 27, 2012 at 05:23:31 AM PDT

  •  also in tonight's news... (5+ / 0-)

    ... the Taliban beheaded eight people in Afghanistan, for having attended a social gathering where men and women socialized.

    "Minus two votes for the Democrat" equals "plus one vote for the Republican." Arithmetic doesn't care about your feelings.

    by G2geek on Mon Aug 27, 2012 at 06:08:19 AM PDT

    •  18, actually. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bear83, G2geek, lcj98, Rustbelt Dem
      Taliban behead 15 men, 3 women in Helmand province
      By SADAF SHINWARI - Mon Aug 27, 10:04 am

      According to local authorities in southern Helmand province of Afghanistan, Taliban militants on Sunday night beheaded a number of Afghan civilians after attacking a party around 10:00 pm local time in this province.

      Provincial governor spokesman Daud Ahmadi confirming the report said at least 18 civilians including 3 women were beheaded by the Taliban militants.

      http://www.khaama.com/...

      They were beheaded for gasp having a social event, listening to music, and dancing.

      If the drones are targeting the leaders who order this kind of shit, then I'm all for it.

      Badruddin Haqqani definitely was one of those guys.

      "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

      by Lawrence on Mon Aug 27, 2012 at 06:15:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  oopsie; worse yet. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Lawrence

        Those Talibans have a thing about beheadings.

        I'd swear they got hard-ons from lopping off peoples' heads.

        "Minus two votes for the Democrat" equals "plus one vote for the Republican." Arithmetic doesn't care about your feelings.

        by G2geek on Mon Aug 27, 2012 at 08:04:41 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  gasp... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        snoopydawg

        How dare you not care for the lives of the "innocents" who were killed by that evil tyrannical U.S. president's drones?  You know, that liberal black guy who arrest innocent citizens who allegedly stole government documents, has a secretive government and who is to the right on damn near everything than his very Conservative predecessor...

        The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing online commenters that they have anything to say.-- B.F.

        by lcj98 on Mon Aug 27, 2012 at 08:14:48 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Well, then surely the U.S. should (7+ / 0-)

        invade and occupy Afghanistan!

        •  No. We should gradually withdraw while, (0+ / 0-)

          in partnership with the other ISAF nations, continuing to train the Afghan National Security Forces  and continuing to provide civilian and logistical aid.

          That's what we're doing now and that's very likely the best option available.

          "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

          by Lawrence on Mon Aug 27, 2012 at 09:03:57 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Shameful--You find extrajudicial killings (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        One Pissed Off Liberal, fuzzyguy

        acceptable.

        What's even more frightening is that we can indiscriminately murder people and claim it's justice.

        'Due Process' vs. 'Judicial Process'

            Some have argued that the president is required to get permission from a federal court before taking action against a United States citizen who is a senior operational leader of Al Qaeda or associated forces. This is simply not accurate. "Due process" and "judicial process" are not one and the same, particularly when it comes to national security. The Constitution guarantees due process, not judicial process.
        Hair-splitting aside, you always know you're in a field when the argument begins "some have argued." Either way, this is thin. Holder is basically asserting that due process is what we say it is, but we'll decline to tell you what -- specifically -- "it" is.
        You seriously need to re-think your position:

        ACLU: Obama’s extra-judicial killings raise ‘profound legal and moral questions’

        “While the speech is a gesture towards additional transparency, it is ultimately a defense of the government’s chillingly broad claimed authority to conduct targeted killings of civilians, including American citizens, far from any battlefield without judicial review or public scrutiny,” Shamsi said. “Few things are as dangerous to American liberty as the proposition that the government should be able to kill citizens anywhere in the world on the basis of legal standards and evidence that are never submitted to a court, either before or after the fact.”

        -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

        by gerrilea on Mon Aug 27, 2012 at 11:19:42 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Bah! People like Badruddin Haqqani are proven (0+ / 0-)

          and admitted intentional mass murderers of civilians.

          I won't shed a tear for them.

          "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

          by Lawrence on Mon Aug 27, 2012 at 11:29:29 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Intentional misdirection... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            fuzzyguy

            It's not about Haqqani but how we, as a nation, act!

            If you're put on the "kill list", it's okay if we drone you to death without judge, jury or trial, just on our say so.

            -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

            by gerrilea on Mon Aug 27, 2012 at 11:35:34 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  You may not have noticed, but it's a war zone (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Rustbelt Dem

              there.  There aren't any police available in Waziristan who can just go in and arrest people like Badruddin Haqqani.

              Enemy commanders get killed in war zones.  That's what happens.

              The rest is a false equivalency, as I am in a part of the world where I could just be arrested and be put in front of a judge.

              And boy, if I ever turned into the type of person who orders the brutal killing of civilians for listening to music, or dancing, or being at a party, etc. then I sure hope that someone sics a drone on me if it's impossible to arrest me.

              "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle" - Mohammed Nabbous, R.I.P.

              by Lawrence on Mon Aug 27, 2012 at 11:41:44 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Seriously, do I really need to explain this? (0+ / 0-)

                Okay here goes:

                Afghanistan has been a "war zone" for decades, the Soviets invaded and then we paid and trained the Taliban to fight them.  And after the Soviets left, what happened? The Taliban took the majority of control in that country, getting people to become self-sufficient and they stopped planting poppy. We KNEW OF THEIR EXTREME RELIGIOUS BELIEFS, BUT WE STILL SUPPORTED THEM!

                What happened after that? Oh, the banksters couldn't launder the drug monies because they weren't there anymore, the Taliban actually reduced the supply of poppy by 95%.  Opps, they couldn't do that so we had to claim they were hiding Bin Laden there and we attacked them.

                Now, 10 yrs later the poppy production is at an all time high there because we blew the hell out of them, destroyed their food crops and they have no choices, unless it the choices we allow them.

                Any moral claims that its a war zone to justify our policy is fucking insane considering we created the whole damn mess!

                If we actually cared about those people we'd leave them the hell alone and let them live without the need to grow drugs just to survive!

                AS for your repeating you'd wish someone would kill you if you ordered the beheading of someone for dancing...MEANINGLESS!

                Why is it meaningless?  Because we have no right to force our morality upon them. And before you make some empty claims against me, I say this as a transgendered woman, I know full well I would be executed there.

                -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                by gerrilea on Mon Aug 27, 2012 at 10:35:45 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Seems like a lot of CT here (0+ / 0-)

                  Especially this:

                  What happened after that? Oh, the banksters couldn't launder the drug monies because they weren't there anymore, the Taliban actually reduced the supply of poppy by 95%.  Opps, they couldn't do that so we had to claim they were hiding Bin Laden there and we attacked them.

                  Note to self, stop before I emulate the habits described in this diary.

                  by Rustbelt Dem on Tue Aug 28, 2012 at 03:58:00 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  ROFL, where was he found???? (0+ / 0-)

                    Wait for it.....

                    Wait for it!!!!

                    PAKISTAN!

                    You've now established with your empty claims of CT that you are not here for honest discussion, just propaganda and misdirection.

                    Seriously, what drugs do I need to do to believe as you?  Us invading had abso-fucking-lutely nothing to do with "going after Bin Laden."

                    IN 1998 AMERICA WANTED NEW GOVERNMENT IN AFGHANISTAN TO ALLOW CONSTRUCTION OF OIL PIPELINE

                    The Afghanistan oil pipeline project was finally able to proceed in May 2002.  This could not have happened if America had not taken military action to replace the government in Afghanistan.  
                    Add to this the Lithium deposits, etc known to be there over 30 yrs ago.
                    http://en.wikipedia.org/...

                    A new mining law was passed in 2006 and as of 2006 regulations were being developed to provide the framework for more formal exploration for and mining of minerals. The process of applying for mineral rights was also being revised as of 2006. All minerals located on or under the surface are the exclusive property of the Government, except for hydrocarbons and water, which are regulated under separate laws. The principal role of the Government with respect to minerals is to promote the efficient development of the mineral industry by the private sector.

                    Don't bullshit me that our policy is a moral one to stave off their barbarism OR that my researched opinion is CT...IT'S A FUCKING RESOURCE WAR!

                    It always has been...It's not "to bring democracy", unless of course it's our flavor of fascist corporatocracy.  See Iraq Plan for further details, correction again, it's been termed the "Bremer Doctrine"...where he outlined and implemented an occupational legal structure that continued Saddam's 1987 law against Unions and it continues EVEN today!

                    Iraqi union leaders have been targeted for kidnapping, murder, and torture, allegedly by "insurgents," but possibly also by U.S.-sponsored or tolerated death squads.

                    In 2003, the U.S. Army raided the union offices of the IFTU, trashed the sparsely equipped office, and took their files. The Army arrested eight union leaders but released them a few days later without charging them and without explanation.

                    -cut-

                    Perhaps a principal reason for continued enforcement of the 1987 law that bans public sector unions is that such law furthers U.S.-backed privatization of the Iraqi public sector and publicly owned enterprises, where the majority of Iraqis who have jobs are employed.  A functioning labor movement would be an impediment to privatization because all unions oppose such privatization of the work force.

                    NOW, hon, with these facts on the table, tell me your bullshit again, will ya?!!!!!!!!!!!!

                    Oh, that's right: It's a moral war, our drone attacks are to save people, our invasion was to bring them democracy, If I were that evil I'd want someone to target and kill me too!

                    You've been had...have a great day!!!

                    -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                    by gerrilea on Tue Aug 28, 2012 at 06:17:59 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I rest my case :) (0+ / 0-)

                      Note to self, stop before I emulate the habits described in this diary.

                      by Rustbelt Dem on Tue Aug 28, 2012 at 06:50:22 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  YOU HAVE NO CASE OR FACTS HERE HON n/t (0+ / 0-)

                        -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                        by gerrilea on Tue Aug 28, 2012 at 07:12:23 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  Nah, (0+ / 0-)

                          Those reports that he was in afghanistan prior to 9/11, with the film footage. Nah, just my lying eyes, right? You are sounding more and more like someone who wants to talk about things that will get you instantly banned. I won't indulge.

                          It's fortunate that no one listens to your unhinged theories. /conversation

                          Note to self, stop before I emulate the habits described in this diary.

                          by Rustbelt Dem on Tue Aug 28, 2012 at 07:32:04 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Insulting innuendo meant to distract and (0+ / 0-)

                            obfuscate facts known throughout the world, this isn't about 911 or any of that bullshit CT.  

                            2007 Zbigniew Brzezinski told the U.S. Senate that the "War on Terror" was a "mythical historical narrative,"

                            The "war on terror" and our actions as a nation ARE THE POINT HERE.

                            You play games and ignore facts, have a fun day...

                            -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                            by gerrilea on Tue Aug 28, 2012 at 08:31:57 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  No no (0+ / 0-)

                            You said that the US lied about Bin Laden being in Afghanistan to start a resource war. Your CT is the point here.

                            I won't speculate as to what else you believe.

                            Note to self, stop before I emulate the habits described in this diary.

                            by Rustbelt Dem on Tue Aug 28, 2012 at 11:25:23 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Bullshit, this conversation has intentionally (0+ / 0-)

                            been sidetracked by your games, threats and innuendo.

                            We were lied to about WMD's, we were lied to about the costs, we were continually lied to, but it's now CT to point out the known facts that we started a resource war under the guise of the "war on terror"...

                            Is it CT to point out we funded and backed Bin Laden in Afghanistan to fight the Soviets?

                            Is it CT to point out that we are now using our drones to kill people without judge, jury or trial?

                            You intentionally throw out the CT label to misdirect from your own relativistic morality and have ignored the facts that were provided for you.

                            So, this is how the "real democratic base" actually presents/defends its policies to those of us that have been lifelong registered Democrats that once believed we actually had the moral high ground?  This is what we've devolved into, the fucking republicans?

                            If you dare point out the facts, we're going to shut you down with the dreaded CT label.

                            Grow up, we see through the propaganda and games and we will be voting this November.

                            -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                            by gerrilea on Tue Aug 28, 2012 at 12:30:17 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  It's CT until you provide facts (0+ / 0-)

                            Do you have any evidence to back up your claim that Bin Laden was not in Afghanistan? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. And you have provided nothing

                            What is next in your wikipedia-esque listing of barely tangential information? The PNAC? Trilateral Commission? Illuminati?

                            And the only attempt to shut down debate is when you gave me a donut. But to be honest, I rather you not vote. Obama will win without you.

                            Note to self, stop before I emulate the habits described in this diary.

                            by Rustbelt Dem on Tue Aug 28, 2012 at 01:15:52 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Oh, so the CT label is retailitory for your (0+ / 0-)

                            earned donut, got it.

                            Thanks, wink, wink.

                            You have yet to prove that Jesselyn is publishing these diaries to increase book sales, please provide proof...

                            Bin Laden was found living in Pakistan, I need no other proof than that, this information is publicly available.

                            And btw, you've ignored all here except your little slice of diversion.  

                            It's clear you came into this diary to derail it and attack the diarist and then to cast us for not being part of the "democratic base".

                            As for your wishes, you're one dimensional thinking is annoying me, have a good life.

                            -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                            by gerrilea on Tue Aug 28, 2012 at 03:07:29 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  :) nt (0+ / 0-)

                            Note to self, stop before I emulate the habits described in this diary.

                            by Rustbelt Dem on Tue Aug 28, 2012 at 03:10:58 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

      •  Shhh (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Lawrence

        You are getting in the way of the echo chamber.

        Note to self, stop before I emulate the habits described in this diary.

        by Rustbelt Dem on Mon Aug 27, 2012 at 11:23:24 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Aren't these they same fellows that tortured (5+ / 0-)

      people supporting the Syrian government and forced them to become "suicide" bombers????

      http://www.youtube.com/...

      The ones that we have given material support to?

      http://news.yahoo.com/...

      Who's the good guys and who's the bad here?

      -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

      by gerrilea on Mon Aug 27, 2012 at 06:25:54 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  And we used to kill black boys (10+ / 0-)

      For speaking to white women.

      Two wrongs don't make a right.

      White-collar conservatives flashing down the street, pointing their plastic finger at me..

      by BOHICA on Mon Aug 27, 2012 at 07:12:37 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Don't try to hijack diary w/ things I don't say. (11+ / 0-)

      I think the Taliban is reprehensible.

      I also thing the same of the secret drone program.

      The two concepts can co-exist.

      My book, TRAITOR: THE WHISTLEBLOWER & THE "AMERICAN TALIBAN," is Amazon's #1 Best Seller in Human Rights Books for February 2012.

      by Jesselyn Radack on Mon Aug 27, 2012 at 07:43:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I'm sure you've seen yesterday's articles (7+ / 0-)

    describing how American arms sales to other countries have mushroomed.

    Killing is big business...ethics and morality be damned.

    Need I say more...nudge, nudge, wink, wink...

  •  You do mean (0+ / 0-)

    Americans that renounce their citizenship and make war on the United States, right? Just want to clarify...

    Note to self, stop before I emulate the habits described in this diary.

    by Rustbelt Dem on Mon Aug 27, 2012 at 06:32:08 AM PDT

    •  There is no evidence al-Awlaki's son (7+ / 0-)

      committed any crime. Regardless, constitutional due process rights apply to Americans accused of even the most abhorrent crimes.

      My book, TRAITOR: THE WHISTLEBLOWER & THE "AMERICAN TALIBAN," is Amazon's #1 Best Seller in Human Rights Books for February 2012.

      by Jesselyn Radack on Mon Aug 27, 2012 at 06:35:41 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I hope you do understand (1+ / 1-)
        Recommended by:
        NedSparks
        Hidden by:
        gerrilea

        That I have a somewhat hardened viewpoint in regard to self proclaimed and active enemies of the United States. I have family and friends in New York.

        But I do hope this helps your book sales. Cheers!

        Note to self, stop before I emulate the habits described in this diary.

        by Rustbelt Dem on Mon Aug 27, 2012 at 07:11:16 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I have a friend who died in WTC (8+ / 0-)

          (You'd know that if you read my book).

          Also, this diary is not about the lack of transparency about the drone program more than the propriety of using drones.

          My book, TRAITOR: THE WHISTLEBLOWER & THE "AMERICAN TALIBAN," is Amazon's #1 Best Seller in Human Rights Books for February 2012.

          by Jesselyn Radack on Mon Aug 27, 2012 at 07:39:04 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  When the going gets tough... (7+ / 0-)

          Americans go authoritarian.  Is that it?  Do you only believe in the Constitution and its protections for American citizens against a tyrannical government when it's easy to do so?  An attitude like that is far more anti-American than anything this 16 year old boy, born and raised in the USA, did in his short life.

        •  Hilarious (12+ / 0-)

          You have family and friends in NY, like 50 million other people (some people actually live here!) so you don't give a toss about due process or the killing of innocents, even when it increases the threat of terrorism.

          If you're going ape a wingnut and play and 9-11 card, you ought to play it better.

        •  Show us prove that this diary is intended to (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          One Pissed Off Liberal

          "help your book sales."

          A slimmy implication and attack on the diarist, have a donut!

          -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

          by gerrilea on Mon Aug 27, 2012 at 11:02:57 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Hope you feel better! (0+ / 0-)

            You probably should read the diarist's sig line.

            Deductive reasoning, look it up.

            Note to self, stop before I emulate the habits described in this diary.

            by Rustbelt Dem on Mon Aug 27, 2012 at 11:19:33 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Being proud of an accomplishment does not equal (0+ / 0-)

              a desire to increase book sales.

              Instead of actually responding to the points raised, you say her motive is to sell books.

              She has real skin in this game beyond a trivial "money making scam".

              Those of us that follow her work here know that and so should you.

              You clearly are attempting to highjack, belittle and misdirect this conversation.

              -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

              by gerrilea on Mon Aug 27, 2012 at 11:31:37 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  And it's (0+ / 0-)

            "show us proof"

            But that's ok, anyone who thinks that we invented Bin Laden being in Afghanistan to manufacture a war isn't being driven by rationality and/or reason.  

            Note to self, stop before I emulate the habits described in this diary.

            by Rustbelt Dem on Tue Aug 28, 2012 at 04:07:01 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Grammar Nazi, get real... (0+ / 0-)

              As for your opinion on my abilities to process and articulate known publicly available information is immaterial, it's meant as a distraction from your legitimately earned donut.

              It didn't work.

              What's truly irrational here is your stated and consistent attacks against a well respected diarist that has been endeavoring to expose the corruption in our government.

              That irrational argument has gone from "not being part of the "true" democratic base to being here to sell books, (of course you've not provided any evidence for this STILL) to personal ad hominems to obfuscate and belittle legitimate discussion on the problems we all face.

              The irrational arguments you've presented show us that being a "true" democrat must also mean that we NOW must have the same relativistic morality as Republicans.  Sadly for you, there are many of us here that are not hypocrites.

              BTW, I have an innate disdain for propaganda.

              -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

              by gerrilea on Tue Aug 28, 2012 at 09:10:06 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Sadly for you (0+ / 0-)

                I really get bored by verbose groundless conspiracy theories. I also find you personally unpleasant, and would be willing to bet that translates to your real life interactions. Get a hold on your anger management issues.

                Please don't spew your defensive invective at me again in this thread or anywhere else.

                Note to self, stop before I emulate the habits described in this diary.

                by Rustbelt Dem on Wed Aug 29, 2012 at 09:35:13 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Ah, it's all about me, thanks...you played no (0+ / 0-)

                  role here...

                  As you pointed out, your personal attacks against me were because you earned the donut I gave you.  Had you provided evidence for your smears, I would have removed it, because it wouldn't be a smear but fact...something you have very little of here.

                  How I live or interact in the "real world" is immaterial...but you seriously must know that.

                  As for what I do here, until Markos tells me to never come back, I will continue to participate in conversations and point out ad hominems, logical fallacies and blatant attempts to threadjack when I see it.  If you don't like it then don't act that way and you'll hear nothing from me.

                  Moving the conversation forward, finding common ground and ultimately electing more and better democrats is still the goal.  

                  -7.62; -5.95 The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.~Tesla

                  by gerrilea on Thu Aug 30, 2012 at 07:14:37 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

      •  your anti-Obama campaign (0+ / 0-)

        which frequently brands the president as a currupt leader, warmonger, and ruthless murderer has become as predictable as my morning cereal.

        In many instances you use talking points from the Right as in your last diary in which you hint that the president is behind the leaking of sensitive US inteligence. I am not sure how many converts you have gained through this effort, but i view your campaign with tremendous curiosity.

        You have once again proven to me that extreme distaste and negative feelings toward this president can be just a motivating a factor as positive ones.

         

        •  Erm... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          snoopydawg, gerrilea
          a currupt leader
          He let the bankers who crashed our economy off the hook.  That is a political favor which will have to be repayed by said bankers.  That is corruption.
          warmonger
          He has killed thousands, including many innocents, with his drone program.  He has done so, in most cases, in nations with which the United States is not at war.  That constitutes an "act of war", making the man authorizing such attacks a "warmonger".
          ruthless murderer
          He has claimed the right, and exercised that right on several occasions so far, to kill American citizens without due process of law, in violation of the constitution.  He has done so without hesitation or obvious remorse, making him a "ruthless murderer".

          Those aren't "talking points", from the right or anywhere else.  They are facts.  

          •  Yours is an example of (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Lawrence

            the use of ridiculous rhetoric to attack and negatively characterize this President, based upon perhaps some false hope of defeating him.... Here is an illustration of your nonsense. I'll just address your item about the President being corrupt:

            "He let the bankers who crashed our economy off the hook.  That is a political favor which will have to be repaid by said bankers.  That is corruption."

            This is your proof that the president is corrupt? Has the President received his pay back from this suggested quid pro quo? Do you have any proof of this? Can you show me anything? Of course you can’t. You only have the ability to spew unsubstantiated bilge....

            Let’s take a look at this ridiculous supposition:

            I can prove that there was no quid pro quo between Obama and big bankers. Here is an item from politico:

            "For three years, Wall Street’s been telling the world how much it can’t stand President Barack Obama. Now, thanks to campaign finance filings, it’s possible to put a price tag on just how much: Mitt Romney's presidential campaign and the super PAC supporting it are out raising Obama among financial-sector donors $37.1 million to $4.8 million."
             http://www.politico.com/...

            Oh, well, I guess that proves these people are in kahoots with Obama.... Faulty premise, faulty argument.... But like Mitt Romney, who cares about facts, when lies are so convenient.  

  •  Pres. Obama somewhere to the right of Bush (8+ / 0-)

    In his expanded use of US drone mission to fly over and bomb countries with which we are not at war, Pres. Obama reveals himself to be somewhere to the right of Bush.  Pres. Obama will be no more transparent about his approval of sanctioned murder than Bush was about sanctioning torture.

    Don't hold your breath waiting for the press to ask penetrating questions.  The press is too busy currying favors with the politicians in order to win that big prime-time sit-down to ask questions that government officials don't want asked.

    "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

    by Hugh Jim Bissell on Mon Aug 27, 2012 at 06:37:22 AM PDT

  •  None of it is legal. It's that simple. How can (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    snoopydawg, gerrilea, Funkygal

    the world trust a country that has caused the deaths of so many people?

    "The Global War on Terror is a justification for U.S. Imperialism. It must be stopped."

    by BigAlinWashSt on Mon Aug 27, 2012 at 08:46:07 AM PDT

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