So I usually never talk politics to this person. But I was fired up after Clinton's speech. I don't because I assumed he would vote for Kerry so helped him register (his father is in a Union, middle class, etc.) and he ended up voting for Bush.
Btw I also post because this is an example of A LOT of former R's in Ohio. Why I am sure Obama wins here. He went to Bush's re-election party in 08. Now doesn't even want to vote.
Since then he always shies away from Political convo, and because I can tell that our exxtremist friend makes him not like the far right, I don't want to look far left and push him into voting to spite me.
So we started to talk today and he throws this at me "I am not voting for either" Obama has not done ANYTHING with R's so he has no leadership.
I explained about the Debt Ceiling, that most Liberals were mad he catered too much, even quoted those few I could find in explaining they would prefer he fail over the Country doing well.
I remember many others, but cannot find, I especially wanted to show him that quote I recall from a retired General who was a Republican but said he sees the obstructionism is spilling over to American lives, was disgusted by them, etc. (so if anyone can find, or give me more support I'd appreciate, maybe one more vote in OH).
Below the fold is parts of our Convo
Him: I am not voting. I don't like either candidate.That's about where we are.
Me: There are things I do not like about Obama, but I am still voting. You should think about both and decide. Just like I told a friend of ours who is a hard right R who didn't like Romney you shouldn't not vote for the guy because of Religion. Out of Curiousity, why don't you like Obama?
Him: I think we need leadership, all I see are extremists on both sides doing nothing, he's a smart guy, but I just don't see him working with anyone and does not seem like a leader.
Me: I'd suggest you watch what Clinton said. It was a great speech. Talks about this. And I disagree, really since 09 or so the R's have actively said we don't want him to succeed. (Gave him quotes from McConnell, others, Limbaugh). . . and to me that is a scary thought. That they want our Country to fail 3 years before an election to avoid re-election.
Him: I don't care about what Limbaugh said.
Me: Well a lot of the Republicans think he is a king maker. And I am quoting the SENATE MINORITY LEADER.
Him: Well I still just don't see it.
Me: Well you've gotta look a bit, realize ppl on the far left are furious at how much he HAS TRIED to cater to the Right. Look at Clinton's speech. If you know about the Debt Ceiling, the R's held the Country up risking way too much see what Geittner said, and he tried to meet with them to resolve (Obama). Or the Health-care, in truth he went across the aisle, and you have a plan the Republicans proposed themselves in 1996 I believe (and Romney's in mass.).
Him: I just dont see any leadership.
Me: Ok well (I know his life is better, hes getting sent to Rotterdam to work for a year) look into that, and otherwise ask yourself do you want other ppl to decide on the far right, far right policies? I want my Social Security Some day, medicare, but most importantly (splicing a bit) is your life better now than it was when we were in chaos? I know mine is.
Him: How is yours? You quit your Job.
Me: I know, I quit because I was a biz attorney, when the subprime mortgage crisis hit, it affected our biggest clients and they stuck me somewhere instead of laying me off and I hated what I did. Now there are at least signs and I was able to get a job I had again in a still difficult market.
Him: Oh yeah and what Policies did Obama do? It was not your individiual initiative.
Me: Me I have been lucky to have gotten Stafford Subsidized Loans, good public education, and other incentives to go to Law School. So no. Also, there was no place for me under Bush, why I got moved to Litigation.
Him: So It's on Bush, you can't have it both ways, that it's Bush's fault are you saying it is he lost his job? Then say its not Obama's.
Me: Well to the extent a Coach says I take full responsibility, yes I blame bush. I can give you a lot of facts as to how his lackadaisical policies led to the melt-down. And yes I do blame him. Now working more with Commercial banks, who shoulder much of the blame themselves, I see what held our Clients back, and it was a lot of policy, that we are starting to see fixed.
And you are comparing two discreet issues. I can show you directly how Bush and Banks caused the sub-prime crisis and own it. While I can show you "leadership" by bipartisanship, or lack of willingness from the other side that is a general concept.
I'd like to show him as many quotes as I can about the Republicans saying we want him to fail, we wanted this to fail. Stuff that'd matter to him. He's middle class, white, BA, good job, in manufacturing in OH.
I do not want to continue to the extent I corner him into spiting me. Thanks for any help.
Also, I think he'd take the word of Military ppl. And would appreciate knowing what Obama has done, and knowing better than I can explain why Obama has done a lot though risky.
10:42 AM PT: Update, Attempting to Convince him to Watch Clinton (apparently he liked him). Also, I'd add I hope this diary shows a bit of what surprised me, that on one hand someone who was an energized Bush voter in OH has little interest. And that the only qualm is about some amorphous concept.
me: Honestly, I would really watch Clinton's speech
I won't say anymore, not even until the election if you do
he addresses a lot of what you are talking about, it's a great speech and it's about the most honest I've ever seen a politician
him: The most honest politician who was guilty of purgery?
me: If it's not against Federal Voting Laws, I'll pay for your Golf if you watch, LOL.
me: no, i mean what he says is about as Candid as I've ever seen a politician
and, you're in his seat, you gonna admit cheating on (his GF), should've never been an issue
Him: He was a great president I just found your comment funny
me: ha. ok. well he says in speech
"Every politician wants you to think that they grew up in a log cabin that they built"
UPDATE FROM ADVICE II:
me: Well Obama is speaking tonight. I hope you can watch. I'd rather not convince you. Naming off things. You are a smart enough guy, that I realize you might only convince yourself. I think that most likely you'll see the leadership, and he'll discuss what they did when the Republicans would work with him. If you don't see the leadership tonight, not much more I can say.
Sent at 1:57 PM on Thursday
me: If not discussed, just what a ride it's been. To me:
- Ending the War in Iraq
- Killing Osama bin Laden and many Al Quaeda leaders
- Preventing this country from entering another great depression
- Pushing forward healthcare reform that is SAVING LIVES right now and extends the life of Medicare, depsite resistance in his own administration and his party
- Ending the travesty of Don't Ask Don't Tell
- saving the US auto industry
- doing all of these things despite getting no cooperation from the Republicans and Blue Dogs in Congress (after they stopped cooperating on any level)
Sent at 2:02 PM on Thursday