Skip to main content


Delusional fundie conservative whacko group Modesty Matters-- who are at the Values Voter Summit this year-- is behind a flyer to denigrate women's clothing choices, particularly at church.

Stephanie Mencimer at Mother Jones:

"Does God really care what I wear?" That's the headline on a flyer on an exhibit table at this year's Values Voter Summit, the annual evangelical political confab sponsored by the Family Research Council. The exhibit hall is an especially good reminder that the evangelical community may be among the last bastions of American prudery.

Modesty Matters, the group behind the flyer, is a new addition to the event this year. It was founded by a modestly dressed retired pharmacist from Roanoke, Virginia named J.H. Woolwine. He gave me a leaflet showcasing some models of modest dress for young people. They look like Mitt Romney’s high school yearbook photos: Buttoned up college students from 1965 wearing knee-length dresses and neckties.

Of course, the information Woolwine is handing out might put off a few potential supporters, especially the women he's seeking to persuade. On the flyer asking whether God "cares what I wear," the writer explains that women need to dress more modestly in church because "men are particularly visual. Immodesty in church can trigger lustful thoughts." It's an interesting sentiment among a crowd obsessed with the possibility that Islamic militants could impose Sharia law on America. Woolwine is also distributing a "Resolution for Women," which asks women to make a number of pledges, including "I will champion God’s model for womanhood in the face of a post-feminist culture."

Think Progress:
WASHINGTON, DC — Literature being handed out at the Values Voter Summit on Friday attacks women for being “immodest” and extolled them to “go home and put some clothes on!”
In flyers and brochures on display at Values Voters, the social conservative conference where Republican Vice Presidential nominee Paul Ryan spoke, an organization called Modesty Matters criticized women for dressing “immodestly” at church, and blamed women for causing men to stare lustfully at them.
Other excerpts:
- From the “Modesty: It’s nothing to be ashamed of” pamphlet:“Since men are particularly visual, immodesty in church can trigger lustful thoughts.”
“My men’s bible study group talks frequently about controlling our lust, thoughts, and eyes. Yes the problem and responsibility are ours, but is it really reasonable for the women of the church to make it THIS difficult for us?”
- From the “True Woman Manifesto”: “All women, whether married of single, are to model femininity in their various relationships, by exhibiting a distinctive modesty, responsiveness, and gentleness of spirit.”
This is 2012, NOT the 1920's, you far-right fuddy-duddies!

Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags


More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  Christian Hijabs and Burqas (13+ / 0-)

    Is it possible that they'll ever be aware of the fact they are exactly the same as the Taliban?

  •  Women Unite! (7+ / 0-)

    Go to those churches that expound this nonsense as naked as you dare (short short skirts, tops that barely cover anything, etc.).

    Call those Talibanists out and let them know that if men can't control themselves when they see female flesh, the problem isn't with women. The problem is with men. Perhaps the men should be wearing the berquas (?spell) with the eye holes covered up!

    I reject your reality and substitute my own - Adam Savage

    by woolibaar on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 12:03:22 PM PDT

    •  Dyslexics of the world, untie [your tops]! (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Noddy, Sue B

      And, is it really just women who have to cover up? As a man, shouldn't I cover up, too, just in case the pastor or my male pewmate is gay?

      And, if men are visual, what turns women on? Nice singing voice? Snappy jacket? Thick hair? Just so I know what not to do in church, of course.

      Why is there a Confederate Flag flying in Afghanistan?

      by chimpy on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 12:55:05 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Lustful thoughts? (10+ / 0-)

    As a product of parochial schools, I spent many a Mass thinking lustful thoughts about the girls in the modest saddle oxfords and plaid skirts sitting next to me in the pew.  Modesty in dress ain't gonna stop lustful thoughts from teenaged minds, friends.

  •  For what it's worth (5+ / 0-)

    The 1920s probably isn't the best decade to refer to.  On the heels of the vote, women's fashion was quite liberating, with loose-fitting, low-waisted dresses and, gasp, short hair.

    To bring this back to the diary, though, the freedom of movement expressed in 1920s fashion also deemphasized a woman's form.  So, ironically, those Modesty Matters prudes would probably prefer that look despite what it represented at the time.

    •  yep they forgot the flappers (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JGibson, chimpy

      I think AMC was the one with the silent film festival this week and the 1920's are not the decade they should hark to.  They really want to return to the Victorian era when piano legs were referred to as "limbs" and had their own form of leg warmers to conceal them.  Now that is a lustful era if piano legs can cause a woody (sorry I had to take the pun)

      •  Oh, no, VIctorian porn (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        is far lustier than modern porn.  It was only in public the Victorians were so straight-laced.  They had so many secret codes and signals that all involved private assignations, sex, and more. The language of flowers, the the secret codes of fans, gloves, even parasols, and when all else failed them, they had finger signals to plot out their tete-a-tetes!

        I can't think of a single truly modest era in human history. It didn't matter what women did or didn't wear.

        All knowledge is worth having. Check out OctopodiCon to support steampunk learning and fun. Also, on DKos, check out the Itzl Alert Network.

        by Noddy on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 01:09:49 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  you forgot the Hellfire Clubs and Queen Victoria's (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          comment when the newly enacted anti-sodomy laws were applied only to men, "A lady would never do such a thing" (I don't know if the quote was real or a myth)

          Also in San Francisco and other such cities "Virgin Auctions" by various brothels (which were legal) were common with madams competing with each other to attract various professional virgins to their establishments.

          Yes the Victorian Era was rife with hypocrisy which is why the GOP should embrace it (personally I like the furniture of the era and encountered the other information researching various items)

  •  See..... (6+ / 0-)

    that's why no one should be going to church.  All those evil, lustful thought there.

    •  Those poor pathetic fundie men should probably be (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      kept at home in quiet rooms. They sound dangerous and reactionary, what with their visual eyes going all lusty over every woman with a cleavage.

      What a crock. Isn't one of the main male fantasies Catholic School uniforms? I mean you can't get much more covered up than that. It must that those uniforms clearly leave a partial to wholly nude, knee.


      You’re Damn Right Obama Cares. Why Doesn’t Romney?. ~HELEN of

      by denig on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 01:46:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Ugh, not happening! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ardyess, chimpy

    This is gonna be a tough sell, I mean we Americans really dig nudity, and the sight of female flesh is a fact of life.  Has J.H. Woolwine watched tv or a movie lately?  That horse is out of the barn!
    Pamphlet all he wants, women can and will wear what they like, because we are free, and guess what? Not all of us are religious, and don't feel the need to conform to dusty old mores and customs.

    If you like it, put your face in it.

    by LiveNudePolitics on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 12:13:39 PM PDT

  •  Those fundies have a lot to be modest about (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ardyess, chimpy, bewareofme, Sue B

    I've seen some.

  •  as in all things related to a woman's body (4+ / 0-)

    it is a guy who is trying to dictate what constitutes modesty.  Of course this grows out of our patrimonial society and our depending upon a religion formulated 3,000 years ago by a bunch of nomadic sheepherders.

    I note the guy is retired so I guess he spent the last 40 years chomping at the bit for the day when he got to tell off all those sluts coming into his pharmacy?

  •  Sorry, but I am not put off by this entirely. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    chimpy, marina

    I went to a wedding recently and one of the women was wearing a sleeveless plunging neckline mini length cocktail dress so short you could easily see her curlies if she breathed hard to a Catholic wedding Mass.

    I found it a hair tacky.  But then I remember having to wear hats to church.

    I used to be Snow White. And then I drifted. - Mae West

    by CherryTheTart on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 12:27:06 PM PDT

    •  That might be a bad example... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      chimpy, Noddy, CherryTheTart

      obviously that lady had no class, regardless of the occassion or location.  But you can be stylish, feminine and not covered head to toe.  There is a happy medium.  

      Slutty = not ok, until you're going to a nightclub or bachlorette party but a sleeveless sun dress, hit above the knees, totally appropriate.

      Ask Osama Bin Laden if he's better off than he was 4 years ago

      by SuzieQ4624 on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 12:43:40 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  See, I get in trouble here: I'd rather, by far, se (0+ / 0-)

        e kids (from toddlers to college students) in jeans and T-shirts than in the outlandish (and often creepily oversexed) outfits "fashion" demands.

        One of my boys is into anime in a big way. I find it really satisfying that he prefers the Chun LI female image to the Sailor Moon one. Just sayin'....

        LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

        by BlackSheep1 on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 01:46:14 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  That's where it gets sketchy... (0+ / 0-)

          because you're lumping in "fashion" with oversexed, inappropriate attire.  They are not mutually exclusive ideas.

          Fashion just means something that is in style, attractive, and sometimes trendy.  That doesn't have to include tube tops, daisy dukes, hot pants or see-thru clothing.

          Being fashionable does not have to mean dressing like a hooker.

          I don't go to church, but I do subscribe the religion of fashion.  Jeans are not appropriate for church.  Neither are tube tops, micro mini skirts or cropped tops.  People should be covered, but they don't have to be covered head-to-toe to be appropriate.

          There is not only three options here - dressing like a Christian jihadist/amish, dressing like a hooker or wearing jeans and a t-shirt.

          Ask Osama Bin Laden if he's better off than he was 4 years ago

          by SuzieQ4624 on Mon Sep 17, 2012 at 07:13:37 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I'm probably actually "confusing" fashion with (0+ / 0-)

            the clothes put on sale at retail outlets affordable to folks at or below my budget.

            I can go to Academy Outdoors and get affordable shirts.
            I can go to the same store, buy the same shirt with a different label, and spend $60 instead of $25.
            But for years and years and years, the clothes I've seen at e.g.
            Wal-Mart, Sears, K-Mart, Penney's ... starting at about the size I'd expect to buy for a first-grader instead of a kindergartner ... the "girly" clothes are of flimsy see-thru materials and/or are "sexy" cuts that, to me, look ... well, hooker-like.

            LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

            by BlackSheep1 on Mon Sep 17, 2012 at 11:10:53 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Well it's her wedding. It's her body. She should (0+ / 0-)

        wear... whatever the hell she wants to. What do I care? Why does anybody care.  

        You’re Damn Right Obama Cares. Why Doesn’t Romney?. ~HELEN of

        by denig on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 01:49:25 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Meeting expectations vs changing them (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      CherryTheTart, BlackSheep1, Sue B

      Yeah, people will go against expectations, and wear the wrong thing sometimes. A fantastic dress for the reception or after-party isn't necessarily just the thing for the ceremony. Depending on the crowd, of course, but that woman must have had some knowledge of the expectations, and chose to get attention by going against them.

      These Modesty Matters people are trying to change those expectations, and demand that society save them from their own lustful selves. They're demanding that women be conspicuously more covered up than men, whether they like it or not.

      Today, when a woman wears a little too little to church, she may feel awkward, or may get talked about a little. These people are trying for a society where she's afraid of violence for failure to cover up.

      Why is there a Confederate Flag flying in Afghanistan?

      by chimpy on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 01:11:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I diaried about this (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    chimpy, denig

    too. Honestly, they look more like the American Taliban every day.

    We view "The Handmaid's Tale" as cautionary. The GOP views it as an instruction book. @PortiaMcGonagal on Twitter

    by Vita Brevis on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 12:45:07 PM PDT

  •  So, it's now women's responsibilities.... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    chimpy, Noddy, Sue B

    to prevent men, probably total strangers, from lusting after them for wearing normal clothes.  Oh for fucks sake.

    Maybe men who can't control themselves should either have to wear a metal chastity belt until they learn to behavior or they should accept that they are attracted to women and know that it's completely natural to look at things your attracted to.

    Either way, not my problem.

    Ask Osama Bin Laden if he's better off than he was 4 years ago

    by SuzieQ4624 on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 12:45:43 PM PDT

    •  Bring back blinkers, (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      chimpy, Sue B

      they're not just for horses.

      Blinkers will keep men's eyes focused on what's in front of them, and if they are offended by what appears before them, they can turn their head and it's instantly out of sight - and, apparently, out of mind, too.

      Of course, they wouldn't be able to drive a car safely, but using a bus or cab is a small price to pay to prevent lustful thoughts about the things they see.

      They probably shouldn't eat anything with shape to it, so they can only have pureed foods they sip out of shallow square dishes.

      All knowledge is worth having. Check out OctopodiCon to support steampunk learning and fun. Also, on DKos, check out the Itzl Alert Network.

      by Noddy on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 01:13:58 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  FWIW the linky to Modesty Matters (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    chimpy, BlackSheep1, KateCrashes

    Goes to a site that's selling  (for $159) a home sewing DVD and teaching materials. The examples in the pics are not teen or adult women but little girls in frilly, sleeveless party dresses.

    What's that about?

    Little girls must dress modestly so that adult males can avoid inappropriate thoughts about them?



  •  No. This is wrong. This furthers their agenda. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    this gives them pub they don't need.
    Plus, this is grammatically incorrect.

    whom is at the Values Voter Summit this year-- is
    Yes, I'm going to be a jerk about this.

    The group is at the Values Voters Summit this year. "Whom" is not the right term to use in that context. "Who" would be. If you're talking about more than one member of the group you still use "who" and you use "are" to denote that it's a gaggle of idjits rather than a singular idjit.


    But the bigger point here is if we continue to listen, to pay attention, to give word-of-mouth publicitiy or Internet hits to these ijits, we are not helping the cause of non-ijicy.

    LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

    by BlackSheep1 on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 01:39:42 PM PDT

  •  I'm all for everyone being free to adhere to (0+ / 0-)

    their own personal standard of modesty.

    I feel naked walking out of the house with my hair loose. I'm very uncomfortable in sleeveless things outside the house.  Apart from the fact that I mostly wear jeans, I'm about normally as modest as they seem to want. Indeed, I've gotten mistaken for a fundie before.

    It doesn't have a thing to do with my personal sexual morality and practice, which are the sort of things that get denounced from the pulpit and avidly purchased on pay-per-view.

    Plenty of people walk round in pajama pants or with their pants sagged. Why don't they go after those crimes of good taste?  

    When you come to find how essential the comfort of a well-kept home is to the bodily strength and good conditions, to a sound mind and spirit, and useful days, you will reverence the good housekeeper as I do above artist or poet, beauty or genius.

    by Alexandra Lynch on Fri Sep 14, 2012 at 02:46:30 PM PDT

  •  Is this what we think of men? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    They are alright with being labeled as out of control savages that can't bear the sight of so much as a child without tearing into her without thought? Are they such backward heathens we must shield them from their own out of control hormones? We aren't very civilized then are we.

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site