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"We will defend our prophet until we have blood across our bodies."

The US and NATO troops continue to spill their blood for the Afghans, who after training, have a desertion rate of 1 out 7.

"Americans will pay for their dishonour."

KABUL. Up to 1000 Afghans violently protest, shouting “Death to America!” and “Death to those people who have made a film and insulted our Prophet.” Western embassy personnel in the area are on lockdown.

Members of the mobs set fire to cars, opened fire on police, as they massed outside NATO and US military bases in Kabul today, protesting against the anti-Islamic film that has sparked outrage across the Muslim world. Some 40/50 police officers were reportedly injured in the demonstrations. The protests took place around Jalalabad road, where the US and NATO army bases are located. . Western embassy personnel in the area are on “lockdown” as the protests continue to build.

"We will defend our prophet until we have blood across our bodies. We will not let anyone insult him," said protester Jan Agha Pashtun, giving what was apparently a false name to avoid police retaliation. "Americans will pay for their dishonour."
"Americans will pay for their dishonour."........................

I think for all those soldiers whose bodies came home to Dover's mortuary, and all the soldiers who came home missing arms and legs, those who came home suffering from the horrors of war, who may never be the same again, have suffered and paid for Afghanistan for 11 long years now. And we are still paying for Afghanistan, suffering the loss of an average of one soldier per day, and at a dollar cost of 2 billions dollars per week.

"We will defend our prophet until we have blood across our bodies."

50 billion dollars spent over the last 11 years to train the Afghans who still 11 years later are not able to defend their own country, allowing us to leave. After training, 1 out of 7 Afghans defect, and face no desertion charges.

If the Afghans will defend their prophet until they have blood across their bodies, why won't they defend their country - so that American and NATO troops can stop spilling their blood for Afghans?

11 years in of the war called, "Operation Enduring Freedom - Afghanistan", in which thousands of lives lost, and so many who came home to Dover in body bags, so many maimed soldiers and damaged souls who did come home, billions of dollars spent, no quick end in sight because after 11 years the Afghans are not yet able/willing to defend their own country.

4:42 PM PT: UPDATE: More than eleven years later, an end to the disaster that is the US war in Afghanistan is nowhere in sight. (Rick Loomis/Los Angeles Times)

Slate “The game is over in Afghanistan. An American presence can no longer serve any purpose. Or, rather, it can only extend and exacerbate the pathologies of this war. It is time to get out, and more quickly than President Obama had been planning. The consequences of leaving may be grim, but the consequences of staying are probably grimmer.”

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (13+ / 0-)

    "Who are these men who really run this land? And why do they run it with such a thoughtless hand? David Crosby.

    by allenjo on Mon Sep 17, 2012 at 11:26:37 AM PDT

  •  Woulda been nice if Bushco had the foresight (6+ / 0-)

    to not try to "nation build" in the graveyard of empires. Instead, they doubled-down and went into Iraq too, hurting the changes of success is Afghanistan. Glad we'll be out sooner rather than later.

    •  What, In 2024? (6+ / 0-)

      That's sooner than later?

      "The Global War on Terror is a justification for U.S. Imperialism. It must be stopped."

      by BigAlinWashSt on Mon Sep 17, 2012 at 12:24:59 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You know when, you're just being argumentative. nt (0+ / 0-)
        •  Bullshit. You know the end of 2014 isn't set, (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          EdMass, shaharazade, joanneleon

          and the imperialists want to stay another ten years at least.  

          https://www.commondreams.org/...

          "The Global War on Terror is a justification for U.S. Imperialism. It must be stopped."

          by BigAlinWashSt on Mon Sep 17, 2012 at 12:52:22 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yes, the "imperialists" want to stay, meaning (0+ / 0-)

            everyone except you and the small group at VOTS, right?

            And your assertion that it's NOT 2014 because it's not "been confirmed" is more bullshit than anything I wrote.

            •  as final withdrawals are conditions based (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              BigAlinWashSt, joanneleon

              we can't really know yet if we will be mostly out as promised  by the end of 2014.

              Because if conditions then are as bad as they are now.......

              "Who are these men who really run this land? And why do they run it with such a thoughtless hand? David Crosby.

              by allenjo on Mon Sep 17, 2012 at 01:07:05 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  "Does anyone think our staying until 2024 is going (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            BigAlinWashSt, joanneleon
            bring peace and stability to Afghanistan?" ask Kevin Martin and Michael Eisenscher in an op-ed today on Common Dreams. "We’ve already been there for eleven years – the longest war in our country’s history.  What do we really have to show for it?  We’ve spent almost $523 billion.  Almost 2000 Americans have been killed and another 15,300 wounded.  1000 NATO troops have lost their lives." Eisenscher is National Coordinator of U.S. Labor Against the War and Martin is the executive director of Peace Action.Dec. 19, 2001 — Marine Lt. Ronald Reed of Virginia waits inside his fighting position on the perimeter of the bombed-out airport in Kandahar. More than eleven years later, an end to the disaster that is the US war in Afghanistan is nowhere in sight. (Rick Loomis/Los Angeles Times)
            They continue: "Staying through 2024 will be a hard sell to the majority of Americans. According to last week’s Pew Research public opinion poll, only about a third of those polled think U.S. troops should stay in Afghanistan 'until the situation there is stabilized' (whatever that means). About two-thirds of Obama supporters, and almost as many swing voters (who make up nearly a quarter of the electorate), want a swift withdrawal of U.S. troops, while Mitt Romney supporters are split just about evenly.
            "
            Today also marks the one year anniversary of the US killing of Osama Bin Laden in Pakistan. Martin and Eisensche conclude: "It’s not clear what the year since the killing of Bin Laden has done to improve U.S. or Afghan security. It’s even less clear what staying for another dozen years will do for either country. The time to bring U.S. forces home is now, not 2014, and certainly not 2024."

            "Who are these men who really run this land? And why do they run it with such a thoughtless hand? David Crosby.

            by allenjo on Mon Sep 17, 2012 at 03:32:52 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Obama will get us out, don't worry (5+ / 0-)

        of course I'm talking about President Malia Obama.

      •  No "firm timeline" for anything (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        BigAlinWashSt, joanneleon

        from your link, BigAL

        Robert Naiman, Policy Director at Just Foreign Policy, asks in his analysis at Common Dreams, 'What Did We Get for 381 US Dead Since the Death of bin Laden?' and writes:

        In his speech, President Obama said, "As we move forward, some people will ask why we need a firm timeline." I'm delighted that President Obama supports the principle of a firm timeline. But it's far from obvious that we actually have a "firm timeline," and if we do, exactly what it is. Certainly there is no timeline for when all U.S. troops will be withdrawn.

        President Obama did seem to imply that we can be sure that there will be no U.S. troops involved in "combat" in Afghanistan after December 31, 2014.

        But they may be involved in "counterterrorism," which presumably is combat, and "training," and if you ask the military what "training" is, they will say it includes embedding with Afghanistan troops who are engaged in combat.

        So "training" is also combat. And therefore it is far from obvious that we actually have a "firm timeline" for anything. [...]

        "Who are these men who really run this land? And why do they run it with such a thoughtless hand? David Crosby.

        by allenjo on Mon Sep 17, 2012 at 04:02:20 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  1000 out of a country of 30 million (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rb608

    thats seems like a small number to me

    •  Yes, I'm waiting for the counter-protest that (5+ / 0-)

      supports Americans.

      Still waiting.

      Still waiting.

      The fact is the diarist is correct - would any of those 1,000 say the same about defending their homeland against the Taliban? And it's not just 1,000 - that's 1,000 in Kabul. Meanwhile, as we all read over the weekend, on Friday the Taliban attacked down in Helmund Province and killed 2 marines, some Afghan soldiers, and destroyed several aircraft.  Where were these 1,000 then? Where were their fellow countrymen to prevent or at least warn of this attack?

      Liberalism is trust of the people tempered by prudence. Conservatism is distrust of the people tempered by fear. ~William E. Gladstone, 1866

      by absdoggy on Mon Sep 17, 2012 at 11:37:02 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The population in Kabul (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Bob Love

        is over 3,000,000

        I would suggest they don't represent the majority of the population, by any stretch.

        Just like Occupiers don't represent the majority elsewhere in the world.

        •  You are seriously confused (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          joanneleon

          There is no equivalence between Afghanistan and Occupy Wall Street...

          "When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains, And the women come out to cut up what remains, Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains An' go to your Gawd like a soldier." Rudyard Kipling

          by EdMass on Mon Sep 17, 2012 at 12:43:01 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  defending their homeland against the Taliban? (6+ / 0-)

        One of the first things we have to realize is that the Taliban is made up of Afghans.  The Taliban is not a group of foreign invaders but are rather one faction in a long running civil war.  Until we reach a realization of whom we are fighting, we are doomed to failure

      •  With the last breath in their bodies......... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        aliasalias, joanneleon
        It was the fourth day of protests in Afghanistan, but they had been largely peaceful until Monday, with the capital spared the rioting that spread across the Middle East in response to Innocence of Muslims, a film that denigrates Islam and the prophet Muhammad.

        "The people are going to raise their voice to show we are not silent. With the last breath in our body we will be against those who are insulting to our religion and prophet," said Haji Samar Gul, an 80-year-old protester at the Kabul demonstration. "We shouted death to America, death to supporters of America, death to slaves of America."

        http://www.guardian.co.uk/...

        "Who are these men who really run this land? And why do they run it with such a thoughtless hand? David Crosby.

        by allenjo on Mon Sep 17, 2012 at 12:12:41 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Afghan's desertion rate of 1 out 7 is the number (4+ / 0-)

      that concerns me.

      Until they step up, the US and NATO will not be able to "step down."

      I hope the protests do not continue to grow, as stated in one of the articles, because the patience of other countries, and here in the US with this war is running out.

      "Who are these men who really run this land? And why do they run it with such a thoughtless hand? David Crosby.

      by allenjo on Mon Sep 17, 2012 at 11:41:01 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Well, hmm. (11+ / 0-)
    If the Afghans will defend their prophet until they have blood across their bodies, why won't they defend their country - so that American and NATO troops can stop spilling their blood for Afghans?
    Uhm. We pretty much invaded their country to find Osama bin Laden, couldn't find they dude for about a decade, and ravaged and ruined their country in the process. We killed tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of their citizens, and for what? FOR WHAT?!

    Of course they hate our guts. I would hate our guts, if I was Afghani.

    These protests all over the Middle East and Asia are just chickens coming home to roost, finally. It's scary and awful to see but, unfortunately, not surprising.

    Logic will break your heart forever. Be brave. -- The Stills

    by Colorado is the Shiznit on Mon Sep 17, 2012 at 11:41:17 AM PDT

    •  The only mission that I know left for this war (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Funkygal

      This "Operation Enduring Freedom-Afghanistan"  is for the Afghans to be able to defend their country, so that we can leave.

      Too many defect after training. I used the lower figure of 1 out of 7, but I also saw a report that stated 25% deserting, which seems too high to be believable.

      "Who are these men who really run this land? And why do they run it with such a thoughtless hand? David Crosby.

      by allenjo on Mon Sep 17, 2012 at 11:47:47 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  one small problem with the term "defend" (4+ / 0-)

        When one thinks of the word defend, you would think of its applying to defending a country against external threats.  However, from our perspective, Afghanistan does not face an external enemy.  What is happening in the country is a civil war with an ever changing list of players.

        I would note many of our current Afghan allies are bought and paid for.  It is estimated that it costs us about 10% or more of the value of supplies trucked to Kabul paid to warlords as tribute or tolls.

        For an instruction in historical inevitability, I would point to French and US efforts in VN.  After decades of expenditures of blood and treasure, VN ended up united as a single country.  Western involvement delayed but did not prevent the process  

        •  The comment to "defend the prophet" (0+ / 0-)

          opposed to my questioning why they wouldn't step up to defend their country?

          Just think as you say"from our perspective, Afghanistan does not face an external enemy, " and yet America has so many, as we are seeing with these Anti American chants and protests going on in 20 to 40 countries (depending on who you read as to the numbers).

          What will success look like for this war?

          What will be the point in time when we will no longer have a military presence of any kind there?

          "Who are these men who really run this land? And why do they run it with such a thoughtless hand? David Crosby.

          by allenjo on Mon Sep 17, 2012 at 12:38:43 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Osama's not in Afghanistan anymore (7+ / 0-)

      Why are we?

      The whole movie hoo-ha is just another reason they don't like us and another reason to voice their discontent.  Just another brick on the pile.

      You may think that. I couldn't possibly comment.-- Francis Urqhart

      by Johnny Q on Mon Sep 17, 2012 at 12:01:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  As Afghans want us gone, all they (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      joanneleon

      have to do to get rid of us - "ENLIST" with the police or the military, go through boot camp and then be good soldiers, and stay on the job, and not desert, not give away our weapons of war given to them to the Taliban, and OH,  STOP KILLING OUR SOLDIERS, and NATO SOLDIERS.

      They know we are not leaving until they have a functioning police force and military, so why do they prolong the agony?

      "Who are these men who really run this land? And why do they run it with such a thoughtless hand? David Crosby.

      by allenjo on Mon Sep 17, 2012 at 12:57:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  We invaded Afghanistan because it served our (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wonmug, joanneleon

      purposes. The Soviets did the same thing. We decided that Afghanistan was a really good place for Soviet forces to die at no risk to Americans. We got even for Vietnam.

      Why does the Islamic world look at us in anger. Colonialism. Ours, Britain, France, Belgium, Russia, Germany etc. When you are faced with an overwhelming force that has taken everything from you you fight with what you have. Look at Northern Ireland in 1970s and 1980s. Look at Lebanon in 1980s. Or Iraq in 00s. When all you have left is pride then you fight to defend that pride. When you are humiliated you do not forget.

      And when death come from out of the blue and strikes without warning at no risk to you enemies you feel fear and anger. What is so hard about putting yourselves in their shoes and imagining your reaction if the US was occupied by another country? If you would give your self the right to defend yourself then you must grant it to others. And that goes for torture and humiliation as well.

      We are not wanted and are not welcome. And that applies to countries all over the world. We do not extend to others the right to solve our problems for us we should respect the same. Maybe someone should look at the world from the vantage of the way others see us and put aside American exceptional ism. The burden of our empire is heavy for us and heavy for others.

  •  that's some chutzpah (10+ / 0-)

    to ask why won't afghans defend their country from other afghans, when our own military's been occupying the country for a decade.

    if our troops were back home, afghans would not be able to spill their blood,. it's high time we stopped putting our troops into a meat grinder to prop up a corrupt oil corp fixer whose family is involved in narcotics trafficking.

    •  It is way past time to bring our troops home (4+ / 0-)
      if our troops were back home, afghans would not be able to spill their blood,.

      it's high time we stopped putting our troops into a meat grinder to prop up a corrupt oil corp fixer whose family is involved in narcotics trafficking.

      "Who are these men who really run this land? And why do they run it with such a thoughtless hand? David Crosby.

      by allenjo on Mon Sep 17, 2012 at 12:22:18 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Oh, I know. (6+ / 0-)

    Y:ou say

    After training, 1 out of 7 Afghans defect, and face no desertion charges.

    If the Afghans will defend their prophet until they have blood across their bodies, why won't they defend their country - so that American and NATO troops can stop spilling their blood for Afghans?

    Perhaps they don't see who you see as the enemy in their home country.

    As Noam Chomsky explains:

    A detailed year-end review found that the U.S. war “has returned to power nearly all the same warlords who had misruled the country in the days before the Taliban”; some Afghans see the resulting situation as even “worse than it was before the Taliban came to power.” The Taliban takeover of most of the country, with little combat, brought to an end a period described by Afghan and international human rights activists as “the blackest in the history of Afghanistan,” “the worst time in Afghanistan’s history,” with vast destruction, mass rapes and other atrocities, and tens of thousands killed. These were the years of rule by warlords of the Northern Alliance and other Western favorites, such as the murderous Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, one of the few who has not reclaimed his fiefdom. There are indications that lessons have been learned both in Afghanistan and the world beyond, and that the worst will not recur, as everyone fervently hopes.
  •  this diary sounds like the Vietnam days (7+ / 0-)

    "why can't the Vietnamese Army step up?"

    Well, it's because we asked them, just like we're asking the Afghanistan army, to fight for what we want. We're asking the Afghanis to fight, not for their country, but against the Taliban. That's not their fight, it's ours.

    •  58,000 KIA and it taught us nothing in VN (5+ / 0-)

      After 1975, I had some hopes that the US had learned some lessons from VN but have found that hope to have been in vain. It appears we know as little about the rest of the world as we did in 1958 and will repeat our same mistakes

      •  VN taught the Pentagon a lot, just not good things (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Shahryar, corvo, wonmug, joanneleon

        Vietnam is the reason we have a professional military steeped in an alien "warrior code" versus the old citizen-soldier ideal.  Vietnam is ultimately the reason why W told us to go shopping after 9/11.  Vietnam is the reason there haven't been any tax increases to pay for the $16 billion a month in Afghanistan and $12 billion a month in Iraq, much less anything approaching the "war effort" of WWII.  Vietnam taught Washington to involve the civilian population as little as possible and to alter everyday life as little as possible, so we have nothing to be afraid of or get angry about that might motivate us to protest and vote against war.

        To those who say the New Deal didn't work: WWII was also government spending

        by Visceral on Mon Sep 17, 2012 at 12:20:39 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I would grant you that much of what you (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          corvo

          listed found its genesis or its development there.  As far as being successful in military matters, I always viewed Grenada as the ultimate in military adventurism on the cheap where we literally had a war where the journalists were completely corralled and excluded

  •  British discussing earlier (6+ / 0-)

    withdrawal, call for more emphasis on reconciliation.  

    The Guardian


    Military plans possible early Afghan withdrawal

    Defence secretary said commanders have changed their views about how many troops need to remain in Afghanistan

    Good read, highly suggest it.

    We should declare mission accomplished and get the hell out sooner rather than later.

    How did Supreme Court decision ACA help the 23 million still uncovered? Ask the 18,000 Doctors of PNHP -- they're not waiting, FORWARD now to pass H.R. 676, the “Expanded and Improved Medicare for All Act .

    by divineorder on Mon Sep 17, 2012 at 11:47:20 AM PDT

  •  bring our men and women home (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    GoGoGoEverton

    Loudly support Obama in ending this action...
    then bitchslap down these warmongers who want new wars.....

    A danger foreseen is half avoided.

    by ncheyenne on Mon Sep 17, 2012 at 11:47:54 AM PDT

  •  Those Mai Tais aren't going to drink themselves (8+ / 0-)

    If we don't have troops in Afghanistan, then defense contractors won't be as able to pay for congressmen to go on 3-week long Factfinding Missions to Tahiti to study the insurgency on Bora Bora.

  •  one small observation: from the POV of many (5+ / 0-)

    Afghans they are defending their country against a foreign invader and a Quisling government.  The reason the desertion rate is so high is that Afghan youth looking to join the opposition are advised to first join the Afghan army or police so that they will have their own arms and there will be uniforms to use for covert operations.  For those who do not desert, there is a high rate of infiltration by Taliban sympathizers.  Other recruits have joined simply because there is no other employment available for them and they do not want their families to starve.
    While we do not have to agree with the worldview of the Taliban, we must understand it. So far the US has been a slow learner, as many of your observations are identical to the ones made about ARVN and the South Vietnamese so many years ago  

  •  The reason we're in Afghanistan (0+ / 0-)

    is because, left to its own devices, it became a festering militant cesspool from which mass-casualty international terrorist attacks were organized and plotted, including those of 9/11.  The status quo right now is a lot more preferable to the status quo prior to our being involved.  However, I trust this administration to find a sensible way out that doesn't simply recreate the conditions prior to 9/11.

    Everything there is to know about the GOP: They're the Bad Guys.

    by Troubadour on Mon Sep 17, 2012 at 11:58:17 AM PDT

    •  I think it can't. Afghanistan has mostly been a (0+ / 0-)

      medieval hole when left to its own devices with no central authority.

      •  when is the last time it was left to its own (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        EdMass

        devices?  It seems foreign invaders is the norm and not the exception in Afghan history

      •  Maybe the problem is conceptual. (3+ / 0-)

        Who says there is such a country as "Afghanistan"?  Except in reference to outsiders, the people who live there don't seem to put much stock in the notion.  Even today they tend to rely far more heavily on local and ethnic identities, so maybe the key to stability would lie in multiple separate states with equal standing as sovereign nations.  Sometimes unity and peace are ironically best achieved through separation.

        Everything there is to know about the GOP: They're the Bad Guys.

        by Troubadour on Mon Sep 17, 2012 at 12:25:39 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Personally I didn't think Biden was off so much (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Troubadour

          when he suggested partitioning Iraq (or at least allowing it)....same reasoning as what you wrote.

          •  I had agreed re: Iraq (0+ / 0-)

            although fortunately that's now out of our hands.  But if I had been in charge of forming a transitional government in Iraq, I would have posed a series of plebiscites to the Iraqi people, beginning with whether they wanted to remain Iraqi or go their separate ways as two or three different states.  If sufficient stability could be achieved in Afghanistan just long enough to hold such a plebiscite, I think it would be a good start - that way, whichever way they chose, the people would be invested in it.

            Everything there is to know about the GOP: They're the Bad Guys.

            by Troubadour on Mon Sep 17, 2012 at 12:31:17 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Given our tribal nature, (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Troubadour

              you have to think that perhaps peace is more easily achieved along racial/cultural lines, at least internal peace.

              •  Sometimes there is so much bitter history (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                GoGoGoEverton

                between groups that "time apart" by going separate ways politically can actually heal wounds and lead ultimately to a more constructive future relationship.  Sort of like how in the aftermath of WW2, the borders of European countries were drawn with an eye to minimize future tensions, and notwithstanding the Cold War, the internal politics of the continent have been a remarkable success story - its first multi-generational period of peace in all of human history.  Through rational, respectful drawing of boundaries, future unification was enabled - it's ironic.  I think this is possible in other perpetual war zones as well.

                Everything there is to know about the GOP: They're the Bad Guys.

                by Troubadour on Mon Sep 17, 2012 at 12:40:37 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  Biden is arrogant in thinking that we can decide (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            joanneleon

            for them. But not surprising since he voted to invade and occupy Iraq and continue funding for the same even after the voters gave Dems the mandate in 2006 to end the war.

            "The word bipartisan means some larger-than-usual deception is being carried out”. - George Carlin

            by Funkygal on Mon Sep 17, 2012 at 05:00:51 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  During the Ottoman Empire (which lasted until (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          joanneleon

          1918) national boundaries were less important than culture and language groups. But with the defeat of the Ottoman Empire the Empire was partitioned between Britain and France. And at Versailles borders were strictly drawn and enforced. many of these borders in Africa and Mideast were borders of convenience for the powers that had little relevance to the local populace.

    •  however, by investing blood and treasure (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      corvo

      in Afghanistan, the training camps simply moved on to other failed states such as Somalia and Sudan.  So long as there are failed states, there will be homes for militants to train, plan and plot.
      To think our involvement in Afghanistan made the world a safer place, inflates our success there

    •  And we think we can "fix" it? (5+ / 0-)

      I think not.  Declare victory and come home.  We're gonna do it anyway, and it's best if we do it now rather than later.

      Or are you one of those who goes along with the Bushies and thinks we're fighting them there so we don't have to fight them here?

      You may think that. I couldn't possibly comment.-- Francis Urqhart

      by Johnny Q on Mon Sep 17, 2012 at 12:07:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  We did have something to do with that (4+ / 0-)

      While the Soviets were destroying the country we filled it with our share of weapons.

      Now, I find this interesting:

      http://www.foreignpolicy.com/...

      "The next time everyone will pay for it equally, and there won't be any more Chosen Nations, or any Others. Poor bastards all." ~The Boomer Bible

      by just another vet on Mon Sep 17, 2012 at 12:23:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Damned Afgans (4+ / 0-)

    They just aren't appreciative enough of our generous actions to occupy their country, install a puppet regime, and constantly bomb civilians with drone strikes.

    If they were like good Americans, they'd stand up and praise those actions.

  •  Remember the protests against Quarn burning (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BigAlinWashSt

    few months back?  There was more to it than met the eye, but conveniently  downplayed by the lamestream media:

    http://www.salon.com/...

       Protesters in Kabul interviewed on the road and in front of Parliament said that this was not the first time that Americans had violated Afghan cultural and religious traditions and that an apology was not enough.

        “This is not just about dishonoring the Koran, it is about disrespecting our dead and killing our children,” said Maruf Hotak, 60, a man who joined the crowd on the outskirts of Kabul, referring to an episode in Helmand Province when American Marines urinated on the dead bodies of men they described as insurgents and to a recent erroneous airstrike on civilians in Kapisa Province that killed eight young Afghans.

        “They always admit their mistakes,” he said. “They burn our Koran and then they apologize. You can’t just disrespect our holy book and kill our innocent children and make a small apology.
    .......
        Members of Parliament called on Afghans to take up arms against the American military, and Western officials said they feared that conservative mullahs might incite more violence at the weekly Friday Prayer, when a large number of people worship at mosques.

        “Americans are invaders, and jihad against Americans is an obligation,” said Abdul Sattar Khawasi, a member of Parliament from the Ghorband district in Parwan Province, where at least four demonstrators were killed in confrontations with the police on Wednesday.

    "The word bipartisan means some larger-than-usual deception is being carried out”. - George Carlin

    by Funkygal on Mon Sep 17, 2012 at 05:08:45 PM PDT

  •  Can't rec this (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BigAlinWashSt

    as it is insult to injury to blame the Afghans for not 'defending their country'. Seems to me they are doing what they can to run off the invader/occupiers that are there now. NATO does not spill their blood for the Afghans country they spill Afghanis blood because they refuse to just roll over for another nasty Empire with geopolitical  PNAC ambitions.

    Jeezuz can we please stop calling our immoral illegal endless war humanitarian or defending the people who live in the nation states we declare havens or unstable? When the Afghan troops we train end up shooting ours  it's absurd to say they are not defending themselves.

    Who are we defending? Bagram? Karsi's puppet government? the warlords who we cut deals with? The women? 8 of whom we killed with our drones over the weekend. Insurgents we call those who fight our occupation,  militants, we call the men we kill with drones after they are dead.  

    I'm frankly offended by this dairy at a time when the ME is aflame with anti-US blowback for our 'defending' them. Ungrateful wretches how dare they not defend themselves from their fellow Afghanis who we call militants, insurgents or people who may at some point raise up and throw our asses out of their countries.              

    •  Another 5+ hour later entry from the Shah. (0+ / 0-)

      Diarist clearly supports pulling out of Afghanistan; the "can't they defend themselves" is as much a play off of the neocon justification as it is a real question.

      •  Oh for fuck sake (0+ / 0-)

        I do not come into dairy's hours later for nefarious reasons. I read them when I come upon them I also don't read time stamps but instead just comment when I'm interested. I used to be here a lot but not so much anymore. I don''t lie in wait for dairies or diarists who don't toe the current two legs better line.  

        Your right about the diarist being anti-war. I saw no snark tag however. I find this 'meme' or justification about the Afghanis or any nation state that we deem militant or unstable and start killing people in to be offensive. It's insult to injury. They can't stand up for falling down. My apologies to Allenjo if I read his misread his dairy.

           

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