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You all know I am no longer a big fan of President Obama.  I don't buy into the chess game anymore. You can spend all day listing the things you love he did, and I could spend all day listing the things I hate he did.  I think neither of us could convince one another.  But if you support him?  You, in the name of "more and better Dem's" should be firmly up his keister pushing him to back off NDAA!!

You see?  NDAA should be a deal-breaker.  I'm a journalist of a sort, as is anyone who sets font to page on blogs everywhere.   You may be.  If you support Occupy, this law covers you as an enemy there too.

Last week,  U.S. District Judge Katherine Forrest, made her temporary injunction permanent against enacting or enforcing NDAA.  She found the whole act Unconstitutional.

Within 24 hours President Obama challenged it, seeking to overturn her ruling.

This is not what our founding fathers had in mind.


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Chris Hedges, who brought the suit along with Daniel Ellsburg and my dear friend Noam Chomsky, wrote about this yesterday.

Quoting Bruce Afran, co-lead counsel for the plaintiffs: (all emphasis mine)

“The administration of President Obama within the last 48 hours has decided to engage in an all-out campaign to block and overturn an order of a federal judge,” said co-lead counsel Bruce Afran. “As Judge Forrest noted in her opinion, nothing is more fundamental in American law than the possibility that journalists, activists and citizens could lose their liberty, potentially forever, and the Obama administration has now lined up squarely with the most conservative elements of the Republican Party to undermine Americans’ civil liberties."
I recall the backlash when Bush created "Free Speech Zones" - those razor wire cordoned off places where one could protest, well out of sight, of any action by his administration.

I have to ask, sincerely, had Bush created NDAA by executive order, allowing the indefinite detention of such ill-defined and arbitrary definition.

Section 1021(b)(2) authorizes the military to detain any U.S. citizen who “substantially supported” al-Qaida, the Taliban or “associated forces” and then hold them in military compounds until “the end of hostilities.” The vagueness of the language, and the refusal to exempt journalists, means that those of us who as part of our reporting have direct contact with individuals or groups deemed to be part of a terrorist network can find ourselves seized and detained under the provision.

“The Government was unable to offer definitions for the phrases ‘substantially support’ or ‘directly support,’ ” the judge wrote. “In particular, when the Court asked for one example of what ‘substantially support’ means, the Government stated, ‘I’m not in a position to give one specific example.’ When asked about the phrase ‘directly support,’ the Government stated, ‘I have not thought through exactly and we have not come to a position on ‘direct support’ and what that means.’ In its pre-trial memoranda, the Government also did not provide any definitional examples for those terms.”

One has to wonder if this will be used, as they speculate, as an internment of the Japanese American WWII type against people of Middle Eastern descent here.

Afran, again:

"A Department of Homeland Security bulletin was issued Friday claiming that the riots [in the Middle East] are likely to come to the U.S. and saying that DHS is looking for the Islamic leaders of these likely riots,” Afran said. “It is my view that this is why the government wants to reopen the NDAA—so it has a tool to round up would-be Islamic protesters before they can launch any protest, violent or otherwise. Right now there are no legal tools to arrest would-be protesters. The NDAA would give the government such power. Since the request to vacate the injunction only comes about on the day of the riots, and following the DHS bulletin, it seems to me that the two are connected. The government wants to reopen the NDAA injunction so that they can use it to block protests.”
The riots in the ME are being blamed on a video, yet, like the man who burned himself alive was the spark for the Arab Spring, many have come to the conclusion it really was just a last-straw catalyst for people who are well aware of our disdain, nay demonization of them enroute to full out war.

A commenter on a RT article from Libya said:

As I write this, I am fully aware people around the world can read it. The same goes for everything put on the net. The people in the Mid East and Africa are very aware of the killing machines called drones America is sending. They are aware of families killed and maimed, friends killed and maimed. Most of all, they are aware of the plans to colonize them, mostly dreamed up in America but also from America's puppet governments. This all started in 1948 but really took hold in 1967. Most readers will know what I mean. What was done in the latter part of the 1800's and early part of the last century was somewhat corrected but now is coming back on the world. In America's case, her wealth was consumed by Americans but because of greed is now because of lust spreading to the rest of the world. The people running America don't equate other people as the same as them with families with same aspirations and proplems.(sic) They change diapers, live through the growing years of their children and all the rest of what goes on in life. One big difference. They can find contentment with what they have. Their satisfied with their borders but for the most part don't have to explore and plunder. The west, as they call it, doesn't think like that and what we're reading about is the result of that restlessness. America has a military presence in over 130 countries. If the Americans saw a foreign soldier walking their streets, what would they do about it? What goes around. Comes around.
So, if it spreads here, their friends and relatives who hate the wars we are making and are looking to create?  If they speak, protest, or god forbid WRITE that what we are doing is wrong?  NDAA means they can be indefintely detained until "the end of hostilities?"

What happened to Free Speech?

Sure, Republicans are purging Jefferson from History book in Texas, as "too liberal."  But Democrats are allowing President Obama to shred the whole Constitution with nary a peep.

The US has its boot firmly on the throats of all who refuse to be its economic client state. We have worked hard to ensure that every uprising has been "managed" to have the most pro-western outcome.  It is natural that there is backlash.  We resent what our 1% has done and is doing to us; it is only natural in countries with equal or worse economic disparity between the rich and the poor do as well.

Do you want a United States that imprisons opposition Journalists, and abducts its own Citizen Protestors off the streets?

No process, no charges, no limitation on how long they can be held?

My conscience tells me to vote Green, but I am an anti-capitalist.  A Socialist.

If you want to still vote for Obama as a 12 dimensional chess player, or lesser of the two evils?  Then you should be barraging the man, and holding your vote hostage that he let NDAA go.

Your FREE SPEECH depends on it.

Originally posted to Diane Gee on Tue Sep 18, 2012 at 07:10 AM PDT.

Also republished by Anti-Capitalist Chat.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Reminds me of the old saying of a boy: "Serves my (0+ / 0-)

    father right, that my hands will be frozen. Why does he not buy gloves for me!"

    He who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.

    by Sophie Amrain on Tue Sep 18, 2012 at 07:17:10 AM PDT

    •  substitute handcuffs for gloves (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      NY brit expat, triv33

      and we may have an analogy.

      •  NDAA was congress' baby (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kestrel9000, Sylv, artmartin

        it was attached to some must-pass budgetary something-or-other.  obama refused to sign it until they clarified the language and put stronger limits in place. difi's amendment was broadly adopted.

        do you imagine for one second that romney would have had any objections to it? do you think he would have sent it back for revision?

        if wishes were horses, beggars would ride, but for november, it is one of two choices:  obama or romney.  

        Die with your boots on. If you're gonna try, well stick around. Gonna cry? Just move along. The truth of all predictions is always in your hands. - Iron Maiden

        by Cedwyn on Tue Sep 18, 2012 at 08:40:58 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Which is why Obama is appealing the NDAA ruling (8+ / 0-)

          http://www.businessinsider.com/...

          and, yes, your conformist attitude toward elections is already well-known here.

          "Democratic and Republican politicians keep each other in business.." - Scott Tucker

          by Cassiodorus on Tue Sep 18, 2012 at 11:46:42 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  just like they pushed and pushed (0+ / 0-)

            on the lawsuits around DOMA.

            hey...guess what!  legal precedent and stare decisis are your friends.  the more court rulings against NDAA, the better.  

            Die with your boots on. If you're gonna try, well stick around. Gonna cry? Just move along. The truth of all predictions is always in your hands. - Iron Maiden

            by Cedwyn on Wed Sep 19, 2012 at 06:30:15 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Lemme get this straight? (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              aliasalias, Cassiodorus

              If the Bush administration pushed for the PAT ACT, it was because they were for it.... but if the Obama pushes for NDAA its because he's against it?

              I wish I had the ability to twist my logic like that.

              •  means to an end are means to an end (0+ / 0-)

                two wildly disparate viewpoints can bring one to the same conclusions/course of action.  for example, the komen controversy.  the criticisms from the left and right were markedly different, but the end result was the same:  withdrawal of support.

                all i did was point to an example of how obama used the courts and process to his advantage fighting the DADT fight.  he's doing it again with DOMA.  he wrote the signing statement and forced congress to make some changes to the NDAA language.  what is behind your theory that he secretly ♥ NDAA?  

                also, obama's a lawyer; bush is not.  

                Die with your boots on. If you're gonna try, well stick around. Gonna cry? Just move along. The truth of all predictions is always in your hands. - Iron Maiden

                by Cedwyn on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 10:46:29 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  He added the language by Executive order! (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              aliasalias, Cassiodorus

              Oh, dear dog almighty. You're saying the reason Obama is pushing so hard to overturn HIS executive order added language in NDAA is because he is secretly against it. You know, "the more court rulings against it the better."

              Your logic is more convoluted than a plateful of spaghetti being consumed by a contortionist going down a black hole.

              WE need to tell him we don't agree with HIS legislation.  

              PERIOD.  Exclamation point!

    •  You must be upset... (6+ / 0-)

      ... that Diane called Obama the "lesser of two evils". Here, lemme fix it for you, as others have pointed out: He is the more effective of two evils.

      "Any dictator would admire the uniformity and obedience of the U.S. media." -- Noam Chomsky

      by ratmach on Tue Sep 18, 2012 at 11:35:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Which doesn't answer the question ... (0+ / 0-)

        ... whether or not he is the lesser of two evils.

        Its an effective slogan, to be sure, but "evil" is such a broad target.

        Comparing what has happened in two years at the state level in Ohio with a Republican governor, State Senate and State House of Representatives, and what has happened with at the federal level with a DINO administration, corporate-dominated "D" majority Senate and Republican Congress ...

        ... it looks to me like having a Republican in the White House who would have to run the political numbers on a potential primary challenge in the current Republican party would, indeed, be appreciably worse.

        Support Lesbian Creative Works with Yuri anime and manga from ALC Publishing

        by BruceMcF on Tue Sep 18, 2012 at 03:26:18 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I sent an email message to President Obama and (7+ / 0-)

    Senators "Chuckles the Clown" Schumer along with Kirsten Gillibrand that I would not be voting for them due to passage and ratification of the NDAA. The day after it passed. I live in NY and it will not change the election outcome if I don't vote for them. At least my representative Paul Tonko from the NY 21 district had the sense to vote against this unconstitutional P.O.S.
    Now if needed you may begin your hate fest on me for not following blindly.

  •  Nov 6 is 49 days away. This site supports (4+ / 4-)

    the reelection of President Obama.  Not only withholding your vote, but announcing it here and encouraging others to do the same at this point merits an hr.

    There are 2 candidates who realistically could win.
    If you choose not to vote to President Obama, then you are helping Willard. To pretend that there is no significant difference between the two is ludicrous.

    If you oppose the policy, argue against the policy. Don't advocate here on Daily Kos 49 days from election day for others on Daily Kos to withhold their votes from President Obama.

    You have no right to your speech on Kos' website.
    And others here are given the responsibility of hiding inappropriate material, like your diary.

    If you are going to continue to argue against people voting for the President, then I suggest you go to Red State.

  •  Got a better candidate? (5+ / 0-)

    I have issues too, but you think Mitt will do better? Don't be silly. What, you want to encourage people to stay home so we lose the down ticket spots too?

    We might better put this energy into campaign finance reform so we have some bite on those issues down the line. Right now you just play into the hands of the Republicans.

  •  Obama has been disappointing, but (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Vote4Obamain2012, kestrel9000

    Where else will you go? If you have to, vote for Obama as the least worst option.

    I wanted to see Obama jail the banksters.  I wanted to see Obama seriously investigate and stop the white right wing terrorists.  I wanted Obama to jail the torturers.  I wanted Obama to end the U.S. surveillance state.  I didn't get any of those.

    •  And you don't have the wherewithal (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Diane Gee, gooderservice, chipmo

      to demand anything you want, or to withhold your vote if you don't get any of it.

      So who cares if you wanted it?  It's meaningless.

      "Democratic and Republican politicians keep each other in business.." - Scott Tucker

      by Cassiodorus on Tue Sep 18, 2012 at 08:36:03 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yes, but look at how effectively the ... (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      triv33, gooderservice, Diane Gee, chipmo

      ... radical reactionaries keep their nominee in line by constantly threatening to become "unenthusiastic".

      They don't have anywhere to go either, in terms of which candidate will send this country to hell in a handbasket the fastest, as they so fervently desire, but they don't let the fact that they have no alternative keep them from threatening.

      Support Lesbian Creative Works with Yuri anime and manga from ALC Publishing

      by BruceMcF on Tue Sep 18, 2012 at 03:46:28 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Thank you for writing this (11+ / 0-)

    While I admire the president and his personal accomplishments, I too feel I cannot vote for him as president.

    I cannot vote for the president because of the NDAA, the executive death sentencing of suspected enemies and the bombing of civilians, and his participation in the buying and selling of the American government.

    Mine (ours, I guess) is an unpopular position, attacked by both left and right.  So I want to thank you for writing this.  It makes me feel less alone and less crazy in my political thinking.

    "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

    by Hugh Jim Bissell on Tue Sep 18, 2012 at 08:07:11 AM PDT

    •  mcdonalds = billions served (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kestrel9000, missLotus, artmartin

      that something is widespread does not make it any less crazy; once upon a time, a majority approved of slavery.

      numbers are no indication of quality, yo.

      i'm very curious why you chose the screenname you did.

      Die with your boots on. If you're gonna try, well stick around. Gonna cry? Just move along. The truth of all predictions is always in your hands. - Iron Maiden

      by Cedwyn on Tue Sep 18, 2012 at 08:46:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Hey, don't make fun of my name (grin) (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Diane Gee, Cedwyn, gooderservice

        My two greatest political concerns are 1) the demise of our democracy in favor of a corporatocracy, and 2) the dangers to our earthy habitat.

        These are both greater threats to our nation than a planeful of terrorists, in my opinion.  I also think most conservatives would agree that we have lost our democratic system of goverment in favor of the buying and selling of our lawmakers.

        Yet, I never hear our leaders talking about these things.  I end up feeling like I don't fit in anywhere.  So thanks for the affirmation.

        I chose my screen name because, as Shakespeare tells us: the fool doth think he is wise (are you listening, Mitt?), but the wise man knows himself to be a fool.

        "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

        by Hugh Jim Bissell on Tue Sep 18, 2012 at 09:19:33 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  its' too late to tip that comment so please accept (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Diane Gee

      this as a tip because I'm in full agreement with you AND with the diarist.

      without the ants the rainforest dies

      by aliasalias on Wed Sep 19, 2012 at 11:21:02 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Thanks :) n/t (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        aliasalias
        •  my thanks goes out to you and the all too few (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Diane Gee

          other voices on this site which now borders on being a fan club with very little concern shown about indefinite detention, kill lists, Drone attacks with a record of targeting funerals, weddings, and first responders (all of which are war crimes), expanding wars in six Muslim countries, and that's just a few of the things on the foreign policy side.

          On the home front we have offers of cuts to Social Security, a 'trade' deal being worked out in secret (attended by over 600 lobbyists but not open to Congress members) and will make Clinton's NAFTA look like a FDR New Deal proposal, the privatization of education under Arne 'never taught a class' Duncan, warrantless wiretapping of citizens, kangaroo courts in GITMO, ( and the Bradley Manning trial, the guy Obama has already called "guilty"), gutting smog regulations while touting "clean coal", a tax cut for the super rich that still gets called the Bush tax cuts when it only exists because of the 2010 Congress and this President's signature (and HIS negotiation) and just too freakin much more to bother listing.

          That's why I ignore the front page and  keep looking in on the 'what's happenin' diaries' to see when an alternative to this booster club is up and running. One thing is for sure people here attacked Firedoglake but they DO cover the things I mentioned and more. For example Chris Hedges did a review of his book there last week and the comment section was good with Hedges answering questions and not one person attacked him...he would get attacked big time on this site.

          I was glad to see your diary and chose to 'follow' you so that I'll be aware of any other diaries you post.

          without the ants the rainforest dies

          by aliasalias on Wed Sep 19, 2012 at 11:59:56 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yeah, well (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            aliasalias

            I'm signing off until after the silly season.

            Its all too much for me, the willful blindness.

            I'll be back after November 4th or whatever date it is this year.

            •  I see the 'what's happenin'' diaries as an oasis (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Diane Gee

              in a corner of this site and I appreciate them having links to other diaries that should get recognized, but are otherwise buried under stories of the latest gaffe by a walking talking gaffe machine.
              I guess that's why we are able to 'follow' someone so we'll know when they post  a diary but mine all seem buried under diary links I did not choose to 'follow'.
              Do you know if there's a way to not have links to diarists automatically posted on your stream?

              without the ants the rainforest dies

              by aliasalias on Wed Sep 19, 2012 at 02:43:40 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  ponypoop (4+ / 0-)
    But Democrats are allowing President Obama to shred the whole Constitution with nary a peep.
    extraordinary claims blah blah blah

    Have you hugged your Boeuf Bourguignon today?

    by wretchedhive on Tue Sep 18, 2012 at 08:41:05 AM PDT

    •  The argument that shredding the Bill of Rights ... (5+ / 0-)

      ... is tantamount to shredding the Constitution is one that was made loudly and persistently when George W Bush was shredding the Bill of Rights.

      Now that a Hedge Fund Democrat does it, suddenly the claim is pony poop?

      Support Lesbian Creative Works with Yuri anime and manga from ALC Publishing

      by BruceMcF on Tue Sep 18, 2012 at 03:48:27 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes, when it is broad brush hyperbole (0+ / 0-)

        but I won't disagree that specific areas have been strategically targeted by various interests, from "Free Speech" zones to NDAA.

        Have you hugged your Boeuf Bourguignon today?

        by wretchedhive on Wed Sep 19, 2012 at 07:54:41 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Attacking the rights of free speech ... (0+ / 0-)

          ... and freedom of assembly is attacking the capability of independent groups of citizens to organize and act in defense of the balance of the rights.

          And its with a citizenry that cannot act to defend their rights under the Constitution that the document is under threat of becoming a dead letter.

          People dismissed the actual disregard of actual rights supposedly granted under the Constitution under the W Bush regime ... but that was not the dominant line of argument at Daily Kos. At dkos, the dominant line of argument was that the final elimination of these rights begins with their erosion, and we defend against their final elimination by fighting against their erosion.

          And then the White House changed hands, and now ongoing erosion of those same rights are dismissed as just "specific areas that have been targeted by various interests."

          If the administration was on the side of defending those rights against erosion, it wouldn't be one of those interests targeting some of those areas.

          Support Lesbian Creative Works with Yuri anime and manga from ALC Publishing

          by BruceMcF on Thu Sep 20, 2012 at 07:49:59 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  There is absolutely no frigging doubt at all that (6+ / 0-)

    if it were Bush the reaction would be completely the opposite.  But then this stuff really can't bother most democrats too much can it, otherwise they couldn't change their tune so drastically.  What someone says, how they look, and what side they're supposedly on mean much more to most than actions.  
    Nothing matters, there simply aren't enough people who seriously view these actions as wrong.

    "The Global War on Terror is a justification for U.S. Imperialism. It must be stopped."

    by BigAlinWashSt on Tue Sep 18, 2012 at 08:53:37 AM PDT

  •  This diary exemplifies the problem with (11+ / 0-)

    the GOP/Romney meltdown that is greeted so enthusiastically on this site.

    It leaves "our" side with the option of standing 1 inch to the left of all the craziness - but still WELL right of center - with the expectation that all Dems will dutifully vote for The Party simply because the alternative is so much worse.

    Despite many of us regarding with horror all the policies now firmly regarded as "Democratic" when they were first touted by Republicans only 15, 20 or 25 years ago.

    Yuck!

    •  exactly (9+ / 0-)

      If being "anti-insane" means I must stand mute in the face of my rights being violated?  I call BS.

      Freedom of speech matters.  Due Process matters.  Habeus Corpus matters.  Posse Cimitatus matters.

      Why must we get yelled at for advocating these things and not pushing back to the left?

      •  Well, last time around, everybody said (6+ / 0-)

        shhh! the election's too important, wait until it's over to say anything.

        After all, you don't want to give the Limbaugh types any ammunition (notwithstanding their ability to just make shit up out of thin air whenever needed . .. ), blah blah blah.

        It made sense on some level, so I dutifully didn't say anything pre-election 2008.

        Then what happened in fast order upon Obama taking office - de facto legalization of torture (by announcing he'd not prosecute any CIA employees, a pecedent that's now spread quite widely), doubling down on Bush's idiotic education policy in the form of Arne Duncan, and rapidly approving 42 of 48 MTR coal mines.  

        Seriously, that's really NOT what I was voting for!   And things just went down hill from there.

        But one has to keep dutifully telling oneself HOW MUCH WORSE THINGS WOULD BE IF THE GOP WERE TOTALLY IN CHARGE - and go vote for more of the same.  At least they're not blatantly insulting our intelligence by packaging it as "change" this time around.

  •  I forgot to mention in my other comments (5+ / 0-)

    I appreciate that NDAA was your deal breaker, and it would have been for me too, were it not for the fact that I'm WAY past that stage. This guy has hit us with so many "deal breakers" since he took office that I don't even know where to start.

    I'm still waiting for someone to go overseas and talk to the parents of kids that have been killed. Do a little survey.

    If you had your choice, and you knew your child was destined to be blown to bits by a drone, would you prefer that attack be ordered by:

    A) Bush
    B) Obama
    C) Romney

    "Any dictator would admire the uniformity and obedience of the U.S. media." -- Noam Chomsky

    by ratmach on Tue Sep 18, 2012 at 11:54:44 AM PDT

  •  Accountablity (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Diane Gee

    When, precisely, are you people going to start holding Obama responsible for anything?  NDAA?  Blame it on the Republicans.  Deports more people than any president before him?  Blame it on the Republicans.  Oversee more drone strikes in 3.5 years than Bush did in 8? Refuse to address it.  Appoint Larry "Woman-hater" Summers to his cabinet--then joke about Summers' misogyny?  Pretend it never happened.  Watch the Dems sneak God-and-Jerusalem into their platform after hours?  Act as another fool apologist.  Watch him engage in union-busting activity?  Write a hagiography of his wife.

    Obama has something very useful in his hip pocket:  hordes of the willfully blind who are willing to act as apologists for every horror that occurs by his hand.  He can use the veto.  He had a Democratic Congress when this whole thing started.  He refuses to take a stand.  And you refuse to, as well.

    Diane was right-on here.  The only criticism I'd have of this piece is that she tried to write to cajole the hordes of Ozombies into a real look at what's being done in their name by their guy.  I wouldn't have been so nice.  I would have told you that you all have blood on your hands, and you all lack the courage to vote third-party.  There are progressive choices out there.  You just choose to return to the evil altar of the two-party oligarchy rather than take a stand, folks.

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