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Dear NFL players irritated by the bad calls, the replacement refs, and the disaster that was the end of MNF tonight.

If you want your old refs back, respect the picket line. The problem will be solved in under two hours. Seriously, you and the refs are both unionized co-workers. Respect the picket like.

Labor movement music after the squiggle.

What? You actually clicked? Oh, fine, here's Billy Bragg

Originally posted to Lollardfish on Mon Sep 24, 2012 at 09:08 PM PDT.

Also republished by In Support of Labor and Unions.


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Comment Preferences

  •  GH Shoulda Sat Down During the Kick (9+ / 0-)

    --which I know is easy for me to say from my comfy chair.

    But I think the players need to consider standing with all football labor, and I hope they will.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Mon Sep 24, 2012 at 09:15:47 PM PDT

    •  I mean (13+ / 0-)

      I'm kind of joking and I'm much more concerned with teachers, with coal miners, with airline mechanics, with so many people more than referees and NFL athletes ...

      ... but there is a serious labor issue here. And the NFL, unlike other sports, is such a short-lived career, that most players tend to make far less than the average fan suspects. They need pensions, and lifetime medical, and other benefits.

      They really could stand with the refs here.

    •  the players (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Mentatmark, DuzT

      should not cross the picket line..This is not the only game they took from a team..they have taken 2 games from NE..against AZ, they called holding on Gronk, wiping out  a TD run by danny woodhead ..and the Ravens game...does anyone think that field goal was good...

      •  And spotting the ball 12-yards-wrong (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        in overtime in the Lions/Titans game.  Leading directly to the game winning field goal.

        I can see Canada from my house. No, really, I can.

        by DuzT on Tue Sep 25, 2012 at 03:39:24 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  the fans shouldn't cross it either (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        no going to games and no watching on teevee.  Lots of tweets and posts telling the nfl exactly why they're not watching either.   Hit jerry jones and the other owners right where it hurts, in the wallet.

        A learning experience is one of those things that says, 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.' Douglas Adams

        by dougymi on Tue Sep 25, 2012 at 04:57:09 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  yes (0+ / 0-)

        lots of folks do think the kick was good.

        However, lets not use this thread to rehash the decisions on the field, rather lets recognize the fact that the quality of the NFL has gone downhill with the introduction of the scab refs. This has affected the safety of the players, the experiences of the fans, and we cant forget the impact this has on the bookies! (seriously though, i wonder what the impact has been on both legal and illegal gambling...almost surprised that we havent seen any retaliation from fans or organized crime against the refs)

  •  disgusting (14+ / 0-)

    That was awful.  We take it for granted how talented the regular officials are.  They absolutely deserve more support than they have been given.

    •  Awful. (14+ / 0-)

      And it was not just that call.  Even the announcers who used to tread carefully to not offend the league that feeds them are blatantly saying call after call that is bad.  There was a non-interference call that kept a GB drive alive.  There was a suspicious roughing call that overturned a GB interception, there was a defensive pass interference call toward the end that should have been offensive.  And the last play.... well lots will be said about that.

      The NFL is now officially a joke. (and  yes i intended that pun).

      The DNC fired people up, the RNC just wanted to fire a person.

      by magicman3315 on Mon Sep 24, 2012 at 09:24:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Green Bay (5+ / 0-)

        didn't get robbed any more than any other team got robbed by bad officiating.  Their bad call just happened to be on the last play of the game. As far as I am concerned, all the teams are playing under equally unfavorable conditions, so you either have to say that they all are getting robbed or none are getting robbed.


        by jennybravo on Mon Sep 24, 2012 at 10:15:41 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Well, (4+ / 0-)

          the prior Seattle drive (which set up Seattle's field position for the final drive) was predicated upon two egregiously bad calls that favored Seattle (roughing the passer on an interception, and calling offensive pass interference against the defense on 2nd at 38 (or something)).

          So, while the officiating was indeed horrible for the entire game against both teams, late in the game, the calls were constantly in Seattle's favor.

          Suspicion Breeds Confidence

          by tlf on Mon Sep 24, 2012 at 10:23:18 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Did we (0+ / 0-)

            watch the same game?


            by jennybravo on Mon Sep 24, 2012 at 10:45:09 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Besides (0+ / 0-)

            Jennings should have just batted the ball out of the end zone instead of trying intercept it. He blew it and deserved that bad call....

            (okay...I'm just missing with people now!)

            But I do get tired of Seattle fans being so wussy that they're too quick to agree with any criticism of the Seahawks.
            Buck up you guys!!!!!


            by jennybravo on Mon Sep 24, 2012 at 10:58:17 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  i don't know... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

   the game would have turned out with good officiating, and neither do you. Poor calls essentially tainted the entire second half.

            •  Exactly (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              We shouldn't be talking about Green Bay getting robbed. The discussion should be about the owners and the officiating. The Seahawks played a good first half and a bad second half. Just the opposite for Green Bay. First half bad, second half good.


              by jennybravo on Mon Sep 24, 2012 at 11:54:18 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  NE 30, Baltimore 21 (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            nswalls, jennybravo

            And Baltimore was hand-walked down to the end-zone (touchdown on an offensive push-off to boot) with phantom call after phantom call.

            Early in the game, New England's Julian Edelman made in incredible catch while being pushed to the ground. Pats up 13-0 and with a first down on the Baltimore 40...nope, offensive pass interference. What?

            Later, the Pats finally get a good run...but wait, a phantom holding call on Gronkowski...AGAIN (cost them the Arizona game). Bring it back.

            Pats get a huge sack on Flacco...but wait, phantom defensive holding call on Hightower. What?

            Ninkovich beats Oher clearly and has a direct run at Flacco and this huge purple-shirted arm wraps about his neck and holds him back. No call. All night long.

            I'm being a homer in the post, for sure - I found myself screaming at the bad calls being thrown at the Ravens, too. Two great teams, a titanic battle, and the players were on quicksand the whole time, having no idea what was going to get called and what wasn't. The game was a joke, and I'd say that even if New England won.

            First week, Mario Williams started whining. So I watched some of the highlights - yup, he was right: a hand in his face on every play.

            I'm not watching anymore. Didn't watch the game last night...

            •  despite the fact (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              that you are one of my favorite authors...
              You Are Wrong! (hehe)
              The ravens won that game...but i cant disagree that there were BS calls left and right. i did love the live chants of BS on national TV though. that was so appropriate and impossible to conceal.

              i really think that we are quickly reaching the tipping point wrt public perception. now whether the owners even give a crap about public opinion is another matter completely.

              •  Well (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                nswalls, jennybravo

                yes, they did.

                So, do you think the Edelman offensive pass interference call was legit?

                How about the Gronk Holding?

                How about the missed blow to the head of a defenseless receiver (Edelman) by Ed Reed in the first quarter?

                I'm sure you can name at least 3 egregious misses the other way, where the Ravens got hosed.

                And that's the point: any of the plays noted above would have dramatically changed the perspective of that game at the time the call was blown.

                Both of my sons stopped watching in disgust when New England was up 13-0. It wasn't about who "won" or was "winning," but about whether or not that outcome was based on what the teams were actually doing on the field.

                •  yup (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:

                  absolutely agree...(was mostly just being a smartass)
                  the calls are just absolutely absurd. and the viewing public really needs to start hitting the owners where it counts- viewership and revenue. but i just cant stand to not watch my ravens!

                  i just saw the ticker on ESPNs website that said 150-250 millions dollars in bets were flipped just on the call last night on the final play. casinos have to be furious right now.

                  but i do agree with you, oher was holding all night (nothing new there) but there were also holds on ravens rushers as well, there were holds/illegal contact all night on both teams receivers/DBs that were not called or that were inconsistently applied, and in general the refs determined the outcome of individual drives. which taken together influenced the outcome of the game.

                  beyond being a ravens fan, i am a football fan as it seems that you are. i want the game to be fair and be decided by the play on the field, just as you want it to be.

                  •  Well here's hoping (0+ / 0-)

                    that the next Ravens-Patriots game (AFC championship, unless Houston has something to say about it, eh?) has the real officials back.

                    I love it when these two teams line up. GREAT GAMES.

                    ps. If we don't win the Superbowl, I hope you do.

                    pps. And by the way, I went to the Sox-Orioles game Sunday and cheered for the Orioles. We can't win the World Series - I want Baltimore to win.

                    May the ghosts of Palmer, Quellar, McNally and Johnson (best 4-man rotation I've ever seen) be with you.

                    •  heh (0+ / 0-)

                      i love these games, but man do i hate them too! i shouldnt get so invested in them, but i cant help it...

                      for the first time in recent memory, for home games against the sox or nyy, oriole fans have actually outnumbered the visiting team fans! normally it is so disheartening to go to these games and see nothing but visiting fans...not this year!
                      i would love nothing more than to knock the yanks out of first then dominate the playoffs...someday....

                      speaking of baseball and officials, i wonder if MLB will ever institute computerized officiating for balls and strikes? if we can trust diebold with our votes, why not for the strike zone? heh...sad...

                    •  Sorry (0+ / 0-)

                      But the Seahawks are going to win the Superbowl!


                      by jennybravo on Tue Sep 25, 2012 at 09:30:13 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

        •  Yeah, but when the bad call is on the last (0+ / 0-)

          play of the game you have no possibility of recovering from it whereas in most situations you do.

          "I smoke. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your fuckin' mouth." --- Bill Hicks

          by voroki on Tue Sep 25, 2012 at 06:48:17 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Yeah, but when the bad call is on the last (0+ / 0-)

          play of the game you have no possibility of recovering from it whereas in most situations you do.

          "I smoke. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your fuckin' mouth." --- Bill Hicks

          by voroki on Tue Sep 25, 2012 at 06:48:37 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  It's a skill (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ZedMont, jennybravo, ichibon

      Like other skills, you get better with practice. You also get better when new by working with a group of experienced veterans. I'm sure in 2 or 3 seasons this current group of guys would be winnowed down to 10-20 talented refs.

      Of course, they're scabs, so I suspect that won't happen.

      •  It's more than that. (0+ / 0-)

        Some people simply don't have the temperament to go before 60,000 live and on television to boot.

        You can't "teach" that. It's hard, and for some people, it's impossible. The pressure on professional referees is unbelievable.

  •  That was such a fouled-up call, and I was for (8+ / 0-)

    Seattle!  No way they won that game.

    All the controversy is over the "tie ball" rule.  Well, they screwed that one up, because there wasn't simultaneous possession.  The ball was intercepted, in the possession of the defender, then the receiver gained partial possession of it on the way to the ground.  That is NOT a tie ball.  Terrible call.

    However, there was another factor that no one has even discussed.  Golden Tate committed pass interference in plain view immediately before the catch/interception/(cough)touchdown.  Right before the ball arrived, he shoved a defender in the back (37) so hard that the guy went to the ground.  Therefore, he was ineligible to receive a completed pass, and instead should have gotten a penalty, which should have been declined because Green Bay intercepted the ball.

    Our ears hear symphonies through wireless headsets, but our knuckles still drag the ground.

    by ZedMont on Mon Sep 24, 2012 at 09:24:51 PM PDT

    •  There's no controvery (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Larsstephens, jennybravo

      Just incompetence.

    •  Just for arguments sake (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      When is a player considered to have possession of the ball? It looked to me that by the time Jennings feet touched the ground, Tate might have had both hands the football, with his feet already on the ground. Would that have made it simultaneous possession?

      And never heard this kind of outrage when the Steelers were handed Superbowl XL by the Refs.

      From a diehard Seahawks fan!!!!! GO SEAHAWKS!!!!


      by jennybravo on Mon Sep 24, 2012 at 10:46:39 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The rule speaks for itself. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Rule 8 - Section 3 - Article 1 - Item 5: Simultaneous Catch. If a pass is caught simultaneously by two eligible opponents, and both players retain it, the ball belongs to the passers. It is not a simultaneous catch if a player gains control first and an opponent subsequently gains joint control. If the ball is muffed after simultaneous touching by two such players, all the players of the passing team become eligible to catch the loose ball.
        And, as I said, Tate should have been flagged for obvious and blatant pass interference for shoving a Green Bay defender (37) to the ground.  Had he been flagged, he would not have been awarded a touchdown, Seattle would have been subject to a 15 yard penalty and the down would have been played over, except for two things.  One, time had expired, and two, the ball would have been ruled intercepted in accordance with the above rule, combined with Tate's ineligibility due to the interference call.  Green Bay would have declined the pass interference penalty and would have won the game based on the interception, and/or because they were ahead when time expired.

        So, the officials not only blew it on the simultaneous possession rule, they blew it on the pass interference rule.

        I could understand confusion in real time (except for the interference, which was crystal clear on national television), but to get it wrong after replay officials viewed it is utterly mind-boggling.

        Like I said, I wanted Seattle to win this game.  It was a great game, exciting game, and their defense was awesome.  

        It's a shame that the game will go down in infamy because of the owners' greed and Roger Goodell's willing acquiescence to it.

        Our ears hear symphonies through wireless headsets, but our knuckles still drag the ground.

        by ZedMont on Tue Sep 25, 2012 at 06:06:49 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  This season should have the same asterisk beside (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    defluxion10, tundraman, ichibon

    it as the one in 1987 when the players went on strike and the season was played by replacement players.

    Our ears hear symphonies through wireless headsets, but our knuckles still drag the ground.

    by ZedMont on Mon Sep 24, 2012 at 09:32:37 PM PDT

  •  This is a lost season (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    If there is one more week of this, and apparently Goodell is willing to go an entire season, you simply can't claim there is any legitimacy to what happens in the playoffs.

    For how bad (and comprimised, yes Tim Donaghy) the NBA officiating has been, I'm basically tuned out to  regular season sports at this point until first game tipoff.  Last night's Patriots-Ravens game did it to me (and let me stipulate, I'm not saying the Pats wouldn't have lost the game under any legitimate refereeing crew).

    To that end, I didn't even watch MNF (nor will I this season), although something happened to have convinced others.

    All this for....isn't the sticking point pension continuation?

  •  Don't drop the real ball on this story (16+ / 0-)

    like everyone else is. This is what is happening in our schools across America. It's happening all around our public and private sector with the union busting but the most important aspect is that our kids are paying the same price the NFL players and coaches are and no one is putting it together and I for one am irate. And I have never been in a union.

  •  Judging by the reaction of my WI friends on FB... (11+ / 0-)

    ... of all Cheesehead Nation is going absolutely apeshit right now.

    Goddall, this farce has to end. Now. And I'm speaking as a Bears die-hard who normally would be gloating over the Packers getting fucked over like this. But this has to stop.

  •  As a Green Bay fan, I'm livid, (11+ / 0-)

    but the real issue is that someone's going to get hurt.

    Have you noticed the interference getting rougher and more blatant each week?

    As jacked up as it is to lose a season to this foolishness, the real tragedy would be a career ending injury for someone.  This is a dangerous game--the league needs to get this resolved and get the real officials back on the field.

    It's true--after the rapture, we get all their shit. Unfortunately, they all shop at WalMart.

    by techiechick on Mon Sep 24, 2012 at 09:41:05 PM PDT

  •  Everyone pro-union should boycott the NFL (13+ / 0-)

    Just don't participate this year. Find something else to do. The NFL has made it clear they don't care about the fans, we should exercise our power to ignore their product.

    (romney)/RYAN 2012 - Look at those clouds. It's beautiful. Just look at those things!

    by Fordmandalay on Mon Sep 24, 2012 at 09:44:29 PM PDT

  •  Free advice to Mitt Romney (9+ / 0-)

    Don't bash unions in Wisconsin tomorrow.

    Follow Me on Twitter!!/ZeddRebel

    by TarantinoDork on Mon Sep 24, 2012 at 09:45:00 PM PDT

  •  If I Were the Real Refs ... (6+ / 0-)

    ... I would tell the NFL owners our price just went up 2x!

    Poor man wants to be rich. Rich man wants to king. And the king ain't satisifed until he rules everything. B.Springsteen

    by howd on Mon Sep 24, 2012 at 09:46:11 PM PDT

  •  Has anyone calculated (7+ / 0-)

    the percentage of NFL revenue that settling with a union would mean? Over the next decade?

    Also, if the players walked over safety...or the ticket holders sued the league over an inferior product and then didn't show up in stadiums or didn't turn on their TVs...

    But nah...we keep eating the garbage sandwich...strikes...NFL Channel instead of free (with ads)...replacement refs...

    No wonder the Owners don't care if they can break the referees union when so many fans just keeping watching and spending money for 2nd or 3rd rate entertainment?

  •  As a Lions fan living in Packer country, (9+ / 0-)

    you guys got ripped off royally tonight and not just on the last pass play. I only saw the second half of the game but the overall officiating I saw was horrendous. Major props to the Packers who came back out for the PAT. I'm not sure I would've had the necessary composure to do that.

    Fuck me! He made it. Will Scarlet

    by dagolfnut on Mon Sep 24, 2012 at 09:55:58 PM PDT

  •  I don't think the NFL players can strike (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Larsstephens, jennybravo, doc2

    Generally, if you have a valid union contract with a company you cannot strike that company even if another union goes on strike against them. You have to cross that picket line.

    Boeing in Seattle is a good example. If the IAM (mechanics) goes on strike SPEEA (engineers) must go to work across that line. If SPEEA goes on strike the IAM must cross the line. If either of them go on strike and set up picket lines Verizon employees don't have to work on the phone equipment. Those employees don't have a contract with Boeing, even though the company does. The same applies to the railroad workers.

    A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward. Franklin D. Roosevelt

    by notrouble on Mon Sep 24, 2012 at 10:10:21 PM PDT

    •  What could the NFL do? (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Larsstephens, jennybravo, ichibon

      Bring in replacement players? Litigate against the player's union? The owners would be crucified in the court of public opinion, and it would be extremely costly to the league. (Probably on par with the MLB strike of '94.)

      If the players would show up on Sunday, and refuse the enter the stadium, the NFL would be shit out of luck.

      Suspicion Breeds Confidence

      by tlf on Mon Sep 24, 2012 at 10:28:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  the NFL (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        can sue the players for breach of contract, as per Taft Hartley...

        "It's never too late to have a happy childhood." - Tom Robbins - Political Compass sez: -8.25, -7.90

        by ARS on Mon Sep 24, 2012 at 10:47:39 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  dude, what makes you even think (0+ / 0-)

        that the players would even consider missing a paycheck, let alone risk getting sued, to stand up for a bunch of refs?

      •  Yes to replacement players (0+ / 0-)

        See 1987 "season." The NFL has employed scab players in a previous labor dispute. It was hideous. Fans were pissed. But here we are, 25 years later. Clearly the NFL is still in business, making money hand over fist. Not shit out of luck.

        MLB will reach 20 years of labor peace by the time the current CBA expires. But that is because Bud Selig wants  20 years of labor peace as his legacy. Roger Goodell with the NFL ... not so much.

        Just because you're not a drummer doesn't mean that you don't have to keep time. -- T. Monk

        by susanala on Tue Sep 25, 2012 at 04:52:48 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Shld Packers fans callin sick with the "Zebra Flu" (0+ / 0-)

    sometime this week?

    Kinda like the "Blue Flu", or call it the "Green-and-Gold flu", perhaps Packers fans could show solidarity with the Referee's Union (the Zebras) through their own sickout or other labor action.

    Not sure how legal this suggestion is, so consider it a musing on the question. ;-)

    -We need Healthcare Reform... but i'm selfish, I Need Healthcare reform-

    by JPax on Mon Sep 24, 2012 at 10:58:07 PM PDT

    •  I don't see how hurting Wisconsin businesses... (0+ / 0-)

      ...whose business is completely unrelated to the NFL would produce a speedier resolution of the NFL's labor dispute.

      "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Dom Helder Camara, archbishop of Recife

      by JamesGG on Tue Sep 25, 2012 at 05:20:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The same way any general strike works (0+ / 0-)

        It causes other businesses to put pressure on the business that's causing the problem and it increases general awareness of the problem.

        -We need Healthcare Reform... but i'm selfish, I Need Healthcare reform-

        by JPax on Tue Sep 25, 2012 at 10:44:45 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  The 1%'ers ruining Football just as they have (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tundraman, ichibon, DuzT

    ruined The USA and The Planet Earth.

  •  But but Repblicans say Unions are BAD. (0+ / 0-)
  •  But but Republicans say Unions are BAD. (0+ / 0-)
  •  That's not the world's worst call, honestly. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    It could have happened with the real refs.  It's probably wrong, but only by a little and we've seen worse every single year.  And let's face it, GB had no strong claim to have outplayed Seattle.  ON the wider issue, we're talking about a dispute between two sides who are not especially likable: owners for all the usual plutocrat reasons, refs for a doubly part-time job for which they want to be mini-plutocrats themselves.  The NFL's real mistake was not to establish off-field review of replacement refs' plays.

    Romney '12: Berlusconi without the sex and alcohol!

    by Rich in PA on Tue Sep 25, 2012 at 03:53:27 AM PDT

  •  I don't think this is about the refs at all. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    The NFL could easily give them what they're asking for.
    No, this is all about the players.  
    The owners are, IMO, trying to show that they are going to stand firm, even at the risk of fucking up the game, because they want the players union to think twice next time their contracts are up for negotiation.

    I can see Canada from my house. No, really, I can.

    by DuzT on Tue Sep 25, 2012 at 03:58:51 AM PDT

  •  When the NFL used replacement players, (0+ / 0-)

    did the refs honor the picket line or show up for work? It was some years ago, but I'm pretty sure it was the latter. None of those players are still around, but the memory remains, and may play a part here.

  •  Our Future: replaceable workers (0+ / 0-)

    I will say it again. These are not replacements. They are scabs. Scabs.

    A replacement is something equally good, or even better. Like replacement windows.

    This idea that workers, all workers, are replaceable, that anyone can do your job, is the undergirding of the whole teahadist War on Workers. Just a set of assets to be bought, sold, used, and abused.

    And that's what this is, rich billionaires screwing their workers to make even more money.

    I am done with the NFL until the scabs are gone. The players should refuse to play as well.

    A society is judged by how well it cares for those in the dawn of life, the children. By how well it cares for those in the twilight of life, the elderly. And, by how well it cares for those on the edge of life; the poor, the sick, and the disabled.

    by BobBlueMass on Tue Sep 25, 2012 at 05:57:53 AM PDT

  •  There are Protests Outside Lambeau NOW... (0+ / 0-)

    I work at the local station today, and there are about a dozen angry fans with signs outside the stadium right now.  We're sending a crew, and everyone is calling us about it.
      On a lighter note, nobody watches our morning show so I got to do a cameo today as a "Replacement Weatherguy".  Enjoy!

    "What is being noticed is only an indication of what is being done." Albert Einstein 1954

    by tundraman on Tue Sep 25, 2012 at 06:11:02 AM PDT

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