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The world is in turmoil. Yes, really.
Joe Scarborough - echoing, "The Stench" and his running mate, Lyin'Ryan' - went out of his way to make sure that we know that the world is in turmoil and it is all Obama's fault.

Not since 1979...hmmm...so it seems that we have been living in peace and tranquility since 1979, right? And I am sleeping beauty.

Let's see what teh google can tell us about the tranquil eighties. Per Wikipedia (all quotes from Wikipedia)

The 1983 Beirut barracks bombing - during the Lebanese Civil War two truck bombs struck separate buildings housing United States and French military forces killing 299 American and French servicemen. The organization Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the bombing.
The Lockerbie Disaster on 21 December 1988, when a Boeing 747-121 was blown up over the village of Lockerbie, Scotland while enroute from London's Heathrow Airport to New York's JFK. The bombing killed all 243 passengers, 16 crew members and 11 people on the ground, totaling 270 fatalities who were citizens of 21 nationalities. The bombing was and remains the worst terrorist attack on UK soil.
Soviet war in Afghanistan (1979–1989) - a war fought between the Soviet Union and the Islamist Mujahideen Resistance in Afghanistan. The mujahideen found other support from a variety of sources including the Central Intelligence Agency of the United States (see Operation Cyclone), as well as Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and other Muslim nations through the context of the Cold War and the regional India-Pakistan conflict.
Salvadoran Civil War 1980-1992, part of the cold war conflicts, reached its peak in the 1980s, 70,000 Salvadorans died.
1982 Lebanon War - The Government of Israel ordered the invasion as a response to the assassination attempt against Israel's ambassador to the United Kingdom, Shlomo Argov by the Abu Nidal Organization and due to the constant terror attacks on northern Israel made by the terrorist organizations which resided in Lebanon. After attacking the PLO, as well as Syrian, leftist and Muslim Lebanese forces, Israel occupied southern Lebanon and eventually surrounded the PLO in west Beirut and subjected to heavy bombardment, they negotiated passage from Lebanon.
The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 occurred in the People's Republic of China in 1989, in which pro-democracy protestors demanded political reform. The protests were crushed by the People's Liberation Army.
In this decade - the 1980s - Anwar Sadat, Indira Ghandi and Olaf Palme were all assassinated. There were attempts on the lives of Ronald Reagan, Pope John Paul II and Margaret Thatcher.
Btw, this all happened under the original cowboy, himself, Saint Ronald Reagan.

Pretty tranquil, uh?

Joe Scarborough praised Bill Clinton and his foreign policy successes this morning. He blamed the "turmoil" around the world on the Obama's failure to "pick up the phone and talk to foreign leaders."

So what really happened in the nineties?
Without even checking Wiki, I know of Bosnia and of soldiers being dragged through the streets of  Mogadishu, the first attack on the World Trade Center and the Oklahoma City bombings.  We cannot ever forget the Rwandan genocide.

Between April and June 1994, an estimated 800,000 Rwandans were killed in the space of 100 days.
Attack on an embassy?!
The 1998 United States embassy bombings were a series of attacks that occurred on August 7, 1998, in which hundreds of people were killed in simultaneous truck bomb explosions at the United States embassies in the East African capitals of Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, and Nairobi, Kenya. The date of the bombings marked the eighth anniversary of the arrival of American forces in Saudi Arabia
We all know what happened under George W Bush. The Republicans have developed a strange case of amnesia as nobody seems to remember that 911 did in fact happen under GWB.

It is not very hard to find all the info I cut and pasted above. A lot of the characters - including Joe Scarborough - were in positions of power during at least some of the events outlined above. The most striking difference between now and then, is that the country rallied behind our government after each tragedy. The loyal opposition party understood their civic duty and did not seek to politicized those events. At least not immediately after the events.
What has changed, I wonder. Why would anyone even suggest that what is happening in Syria is the president's fault? That he wants protesters to attack our embassies?
What has changed?
 

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Comment Preferences

  •  Ryan is without a shred of compunction. He'll (5+ / 0-)

    say anything and get in anyone's face if it will help him score a point.  Brash.  Unseasoned.  Has no problem telling baldfaced lies.  Needs to be taken down a peg or two.  He's an arrogant asshole, pure and simple.

    That's one more thing to add to my long list of small problems. --my son, age 10

    by concernedamerican on Tue Sep 25, 2012 at 08:20:49 PM PDT

  •  I think (4+ / 0-)

    We haven't seen this kind of turmoil in recorded history.

    Comparing now to 1979 is ridiculous.

    One can argue it's like pre WW2 or the unwinding of the Roman Empire, but in both cases the weapons tech just wasn't there.  You also didn't have such a connected and crowded world at the time as well.

    The global economy is hanging on by a thread.  The Middle East is getting ready to blow.

    So the entire region will most likely catch on fire and the resultant economic pain will probably drag a good deal of the world in.

    Plus I see other regional issues.  India vs. Pakistan for example.

    Even China and Japan are bickering over some rocks - wars have started over less.

    New Zealand would probably be a good place to weather the storm.

    I think it's going to be very turbulent soon barring a miracle.

    Scary times.

    "And there are those who give and know not pain in giving, nor do they seek joy, nor give with mindfulness of virtue; They give as in yonder valley the myrtle breathes its fragrance into space" Khalil Gibran

    by bcdelta on Tue Sep 25, 2012 at 08:24:38 PM PDT

    •  The India vs Pakistan issue did not (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bcdelta, OIL GUY, jayden

      start in the last three years and I cannot recall anybody blaming that on the president of the USA.
      Neither is the simmering hatred between China and Japan.
      This is not the first time in my lifetime that ME seems like it is about to blow. We have had one war after another in that region most of them predating the birth of Barack Obama.

      •  Not making a political comment (3+ / 0-)

        A lot of this has been building easily since the end of WW2 and even back to 1900.

        Our problems in Iran can be traced back to 53 with US/Brit deposing of Mossadegh.

        All this being said even at the darkest hour light is sometimes around the corner.  All of this can go away, but question we have right leadership globally to make it happen.

        It's not just the geopolitics, but the economics.  The globe is connected.  Take the depression.  Europe fared much better.

        If Europe were to go down then I think most of the world would follow.

        "And there are those who give and know not pain in giving, nor do they seek joy, nor give with mindfulness of virtue; They give as in yonder valley the myrtle breathes its fragrance into space" Khalil Gibran

        by bcdelta on Tue Sep 25, 2012 at 08:53:51 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  re "Our problems in Iran can be traced back to 53 (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          bcdelta, skrekk, JoanMar

          with US/Brit deposing of Mossadegh."

          Amen. In fact we have Kermit Roosevelt, grandson of the great Theodore Roosevelt, to blame.

          With a thrilling narrative that sheds much light on recent events, this national bestseller brings to life the 1953 CIA coup in Iran that ousted the country’s elected prime minister, ushered in a quarter-century of brutal rule under the Shah, and stimulated the rise of Islamic fundamentalism and anti-Americanism in the Middle East.
          But we can't have anyone thinking that the CIA started it, now can we?
          Which, IMHO is why Scarborough et al. chose the date 1979, to remind people of the "Hostage Crisis" while neglecting to mention why they were mad at us...

          Our American relationship with the company that tried to rebrand itself as Beyond Petroleum is also fully explained in section of that book that goes back to 1905 when Britain struck oil in Persia- and the rest, as they say is history. Except when they don't say it. And this story, the one that says America interfered with one of the world's great growing democracies, is effectively censored through decades of us not talking about it. Did you learn this in high school? I didn't. I heard it from my Dad, but everything else he said was radical and not heard anywhere else either. But basically, he said, it was all because Mossadegh nationalized his own country's resources to be used by his countrymen and took it back from the Brits and Us.

          "Had we gone the invasion route, the US could conceivably still be an occupying power in a bitterly hostile land." -- George H. W. Bush, "A World Transformed," 1998 memoir (explaining why the US did not occupy Iraq in the 1991 "Desert Storm" war)

          by nuclear winter solstice on Tue Sep 25, 2012 at 09:31:05 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  So (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JoanMar

        We are paying the price for imperialism of the past and even the invention of the combustion engine and our global addiction to oil.

        Root causes...

        Middle East - British, French and Ottoman imperialism.

        India/Pakistan - British Imperialism - relatively stable now, but if oil were to spike it might light up.

        Far East - this is currently just a spat du jour, but I'm sure the Koreans and Chinese have not forgotten the Japanese aggression of the 30-40s.

        North Africa - European imperialism

        Also with the Middle East - Israel in particular - people have been fighting over Jerusalem for over 1k years.

        And since these times imperialism and manipulation have continued.

        So we need very cool headed heads of state and no rush of any kind to conflict.

        Economically the root is incessant greed that has gotten worse every decade certainly since the 80s and the US owns a lot of this.

        And had we not been on oil and suffered through the 70s oil crises and stagflation you might not have seen the initial debt build up in the 80s to get off of the high unemployment in the early 80s.  Might not have seen the bubbles either that followed in the latter 80s, 90s and 00s.

        Then of course the bubbles keep getting worse by decade - LBOs, junk bonds 80s, tech 90s, mortgage 00s, govt debt now and since early 80s.

        So this is where we have been and in as much as we have made it worse - we can also shift course and make it better.

        It's a question of what we do globally now.  And trust me all this crap can be undone, but it won't be easy.

        "And there are those who give and know not pain in giving, nor do they seek joy, nor give with mindfulness of virtue; They give as in yonder valley the myrtle breathes its fragrance into space" Khalil Gibran

        by bcdelta on Tue Sep 25, 2012 at 09:18:36 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  We know for sure that electing Romney (0+ / 0-)

          will not make anything better.
          In his now infamous tape, he said that some former SoS had approach him with some insight about Israel and he chose to ignore it. He had absolutely no interest.
          More importantly, as the pres has been preaching, change happens from the bottom up.
          The people - especially young people around the world - must demand change.

          •  Your right about young people (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            JoanMar

            needing to demand change.

            Where Romney frightens me is I worry that he is far too anxious to pop Iran and this will trigger everything I mentioned in my first post.

            So in order to prevent Iran from getting a nuke we will potentially risk global economic collapse and bad regional war that can escalate to a global one???

            "And there are those who give and know not pain in giving, nor do they seek joy, nor give with mindfulness of virtue; They give as in yonder valley the myrtle breathes its fragrance into space" Khalil Gibran

            by bcdelta on Tue Sep 25, 2012 at 09:28:50 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  These are the most peaceful times in history. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JoanMar, bcdelta

      No, seriously.

      http://www.newscientist.com/...

      We're more aware of things now, but things are actually better.

      We get what we want - or what we fail to refuse. - Muhammad Yunus

      by nightsweat on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 06:54:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Night (0+ / 0-)

        Interesting article.  Thanks for posting.

        I think his arguments are sound.

        In stable countries people have it far better than in the past.

        However, the world is connected and dependent on oil.

        If a conflict were to arise in the Middle East say Israel/Iran because of how it would play out and because of instability I think the whole region would go up and drag non regional players in.

        At this point the specter of nukes comes into play.

        Depends on what happens and how it plays out.

        You didn't have thousands of nukes in the past.

        For example, let's say Israel hits Iran's nuke facilities.

        Where we go from here depends on the response.

        Suppose the response is for Hezbollah and Iran to fire a ton of missiles at Tel-Aviv and 50k get killed.

        Also they destroy oil infrastructure in the GCC and output slows to a crawl for 6 months.

        What would the Israeli response be to 50k dead?

        They might nuke Tehran and kill a few million.  And once you start lobbing nukes who knows what others will do.

        So you can get massive escalation of war and nuking.

        The economic problems + war is probably the bigger problem than the initial conflict/volley.

        If the global economy collapses and war is bad then order breaks down, revolutions occur due to bad economics, etc.

        The big killer here outside of war would be the breaking down of the food supply chain and billions could die of starvation or disease.

        Not saying this will happen.  So while it's better than the past, given our connected global trade/banking, reliance on oil and weapons tech - the potential for this to be the worst event in recorded history exists.

        Obviously I'm presenting the worst case possible and hope that it doesn't happen or even another war.

        Now it doesn't have to be this way so let's hope cool head prevail.

        "And there are those who give and know not pain in giving, nor do they seek joy, nor give with mindfulness of virtue; They give as in yonder valley the myrtle breathes its fragrance into space" Khalil Gibran

        by bcdelta on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 07:53:16 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Just to add (0+ / 0-)

        We also have the potential to have stable and fair commerce for all where no one is missing meals/basic needs.

        I see a future world without war and hunger and a world in which we migrate to clean energy.

        In as much as a high knowledge of energy enables the creation of horrible weapons it also enables clean and reliable energy for all.

        And this is life - many things are a doubled-edged sword.

        I'm for choosing the positive edge and as humans this needs to be our focus and what we all need to push our leaders to choose.

        "And there are those who give and know not pain in giving, nor do they seek joy, nor give with mindfulness of virtue; They give as in yonder valley the myrtle breathes its fragrance into space" Khalil Gibran

        by bcdelta on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 08:28:33 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Scarborough who™? n/t (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JoanMar, mama jo, jayden

    Float like a manhole cover, sting like a sash weight! Clean Coal Is A Clinker!

    by JeffW on Tue Sep 25, 2012 at 08:30:10 PM PDT

  •  2001, 2003 ... I think something happened ... (4+ / 0-)

    ... during those years. But gee, my memory is all fuzzy. It's like it never happened.

  •  This is exactly right, JoanMar: (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JoanMar, here4tehbeer, jayden
    The most striking difference between now and then, is that the country rallied behind our government after each tragedy. The loyal opposition party understood their civic duty and did not seek to politicize those events.
    As much as the GOP turns my stomach, I do enjoy the fact that they've recently thrown seniors, women, immigrants, poor people and even patriotism under the bus. They really have become a party that can only count on uneducated white people and can only wave the flag of "Less Taxes for Richers." That's who they represent and what they stand for now.

    Great job, JoanMar. I saw Ryan say that on the TV and LOLed, but I'm glad you actually did something about it!  

    I would tip you, but the man took away my tips.

    by Tortmaster on Tue Sep 25, 2012 at 08:46:44 PM PDT

  •  In the repub mind, (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JoanMar, InsultComicDog, DBunn

    [delusional]

    "When Reagan was in office, everything was friggin Perfect!"

    All other years since then:  FuggedUp.

  •  Joan (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JoanMar

    Your comment on Rwanda really struck me and brings up my disappointment with the UN and global powers.

    Given the horrors of WW2 - I think we can agree genocide shouldn't be tolerated, yet - Cambodia, Rwanda, Congo, etc.

    As a species the only way forward is no genocide, no war and all globally having enough (eat, edu, shelter, etc.)

    The root cause of terrorism is poverty.

    We can't get there overnight, but we can get there so we need to rethink our priorities as a species.

    "And there are those who give and know not pain in giving, nor do they seek joy, nor give with mindfulness of virtue; They give as in yonder valley the myrtle breathes its fragrance into space" Khalil Gibran

    by bcdelta on Tue Sep 25, 2012 at 09:24:26 PM PDT

  •  BTW Joan (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JoanMar

    Nice thread - you got me thinking about a lot.

    "And there are those who give and know not pain in giving, nor do they seek joy, nor give with mindfulness of virtue; They give as in yonder valley the myrtle breathes its fragrance into space" Khalil Gibran

    by bcdelta on Tue Sep 25, 2012 at 09:29:32 PM PDT

  •  You have to admit they're kind of cute, in a (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JoanMar

    pathetic sort of way. Know why they so desperately keep referencing 1979 and Carter? Because that was the last time a Democrat was voted out of the Oval Office. Now if you ever find yourself looking for a good illustration of the word desperate, this is a great example. LOL.

  •  Let's go back to 1979 then (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    skrekk, here4tehbeer, jayden, JoanMar

    Recall, if you were a teen or adult at the time (I was in my first year of grad school), at least one very tense geopolitical situation we faced as a country. Well, yes, the Cold War was still on, a time when the still powerful (and existent) Soviet Union had 15,000 or so nukes pointed at us, as well as several tank armies facing our troops along the East-West German border (you know, the other high risk hot spot that G.W. Bush avoided serving in), and... oh yes, the classic example of blowback from decades of delivering dictatorship to strategic spots around the world to shore up our political and commercial allies -- the Iranian Revolution. In November, 1979, partly as a consequence of some very bad behavior on our part in gifting the Iranians with a Shah and his Savak secret police, we had 52 Americans being held hostage -- and a generation of young Americans foolishly ready to go to war over it. But fortunately we had someone in the White House at the time who was in fact wiser than most of us, and so we didn't go to war. Years later there would be rumors (well, sworn testimony actually) that advisers of his opponent in the Presidential election the following year had met with the Iranians and made a deal that kept the hostages in captivity right up to inauguration day. We do know that those same advisers would later enter into a complicated arms-for-hostages deal with the Iranians -- the kind of deal that only a decade before would probably have got them impeached. But by then our standards of decency -- and apparently what constitutes giving comfort to the enemy (anyone out there care to know what an American-made, Israeli supplied, TOW missile can do to an M60 tank, the kind of armored vehicle we would have sent to Iran if we had gone to war? And they get worked up over "Fast and Furious"! Those were just small arms bucko, not the kind of enterprise-grade hardware Ollie North & co. handed to the Revolutionary Guards) -- had changed forever.

    •  I did not know this: (0+ / 0-)
      Years later there would be rumors (well, sworn testimony actually) that advisers of his opponent in the Presidential election the following year had met with the Iranians and made a deal that kept the hostages in captivity right up to inauguration day.
      I am not even mildly surprised at this.
      As Tortmaster said upthread, these people are always ready to sacrifice patriotism for political gain.
      Thank you for this lesson, Plembo.
  •  We can also go back to 1952: (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DBunn, Egalitare, sayitaintso, JoanMar
    "I have pointed out the inch-by-inch destruction of the ramparts of free men in the United States.

    ...

    For years I have protested the lost statesmanship of dealing with them would drag the world into great calamities. However, there is no satisfaction in having been proved right by disasters to the American people.

    Until twenty years ago our dedication to free men was admired and aspired to by all mankind. The undertakings of our government were trusted throughout the whole earth. Today, that respect and trust have been blemished by a hundred actions."

    Herbert Hoover, speaking to the Republican National Convention (Chicago, July 8, 1952).

    Did that say "Herbert Hoover"? Perhaps it should read Paul Ryan, and the "1952" can be changed to "2012" and the War in Afghanistan can be swapped out with the Korean Conflict, which had 120,000 casualties at the time with 300k Americans still fighting, and instead of Mid-East tensions, suppose we go with "The Cold War."

    Republican hyperbole never changes, just the speaker.

    I would tip you, but the man took away my tips.

    by Tortmaster on Tue Sep 25, 2012 at 11:00:07 PM PDT

  •  The world's at a historic low point of turmoil. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JoanMar

    The only region that's in turmoil could use some, however unpleasant it is on a day to day basis.

    Romney '12: Berlusconi without the sex and alcohol!

    by Rich in PA on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 03:59:25 AM PDT

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