Skip to main content

No fix for 'Jesus rifles' deploying to Afghanistan

The officer, who asked not to be named out of fear of reprisal from commanders, provided a photograph, taken on Tuesday, of the code on an M-4 rifle assigned to a soldier who is slated to deploy to Afghanistan in coming weeks.

The code stamped into the metal of the soldier’s ACOG (Advanced Combat Optical Gunsight) ends with the model number with "JN8:12." which refers to the New Testament passage, John 8:12, which reads: "Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life."

Other rifle scopes among some 250,000 provided by Michigan-based manufacturer Trijicon were imprinted with codes that point to passages in Matthew, Mark, Luke, Corinthians and Revelations, ABC News reported when it broke the news in 2010.

"It's an embarrassment and makes us look exactly like the tenth incarnation of the crusades which launches 8 million new jihadist recruiting videos."

...

Iraqis "absolutely" know that it’s a Jesus rifle, said the Fort Hood officer, based on his experience.

...

"Do all the Afghans and Taliban know about this? Probably not. But the ones who do could ultimately affect the life of a soldier," said the  officer. "There’s absolutely no reason this couldn’t have been done in the first six weeks. And that just leads me to wonder why is the Army leadership not taking ownership of the responsibility of completing this task?"

We were told our taxpayer dollars were going to make us more safe. But US commanders and gun companies used it for their bigoted Crusade. When you think about the vile man who made that anti-Muslim video, when you think about Pam Geller and her vile bigoted NY advertisements, never forget that the company selling you your gun and some of the men and women wearing our military's uniform might just be doing the same damn thing at this very moment, and with your money.

Innocent soldiers will pay the price. Innocent Americans at home will pay the price. Innocent Muslims caught up in our military commanders' immoral and bigoted Crusade will pay the price.

These Christian fundamentalists have no place taking our taxpayer dollars or fighting modern wars. And they should be handed their walking papers immediately.

7:39 PM PT: Since we know the military won't address its dangerous problem with Christian fundamentalism, the only answer is to bring them home and take away their resources to fight wars. We're safer without these commanders in action.


Originally posted to snowcity on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 07:34 PM PDT.

Also republished by Street Prophets .

EMAIL TO A FRIEND X
Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags

?

More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  Bush did invade Iraq based on his Christian belief (12+ / 0-)

    Bush told then French President, Chirac that:

    "This confrontation is willed by God, who wants to use this conflict to erase his people's enemies before a New Age begins".
    Bush told Chirac the Biblical story of Gog and Magog and believed Gog and Magog thrive in the Middle East and must be defeated:
    Bush wove a story about how the Biblical creatures Gog and Magog were at work in the Middle East and how they must be defeated.
  •  They should be court martialed for treason. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DJ Rix, coolbreeze
    •  That word does not mean what you think it means. (20+ / 0-)

      Article III, Section 3 of the Constitution defines treason:

      Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
      The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.
      Courts Martial is for a violation of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UMJC) and is only applicable to members of the uniformed services.  What section of the UMJC has anyone violated, if the manufacturer of the firearm  imprinted a biblical reference prior to shipping to the military?  My sources tell me the practice was stopped once it became public.  

      As for putting our troops at risk, that is hyperbole. Troops are at risk simply by being where they are not wanted.  So what if the Taliban is offended; I seriously doubt Taliban or other extremists are going to be inspecting American firearms closely enough to find a tiny engraved bible verse on the riflescope.  

      The general who wins the battle makes many calculations in his temple before the battle is fought. The general who loses makes but few calculations beforehand. - Sun Tzu

      by Otteray Scribe on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 08:19:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Typo: UMJC = UCMJ n/t (7+ / 0-)

        The general who wins the battle makes many calculations in his temple before the battle is fought. The general who loses makes but few calculations beforehand. - Sun Tzu

        by Otteray Scribe on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 08:24:20 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  What's with the anonymous sources (5+ / 0-)

        in Daily Kos comments?

        My sources tell me the practice was stopped once it became public.
        Did you talk to your sources just now? Call them up because you saw a Daily Kos diary?

        Who do you talk to to get inside information about gunsight procurement?

        Or, why reference anonymous insider sources, with all the trust issues involved, when it's completely unnecessary because the issue is addressed in the media article being discussed in the diary?  

        •  I have known this for some time. (15+ / 0-)

          As for who told me, I am not going to break a confidence without permission.  I was told when the story about the verses became public, the manufacturer was told to stop it, and they did.  This is not something that just happened, but  is actually a stale story.

          It is late and I am about to turn in.  Perhaps if you do a Google search, the original story will turn up.  I don't feel like bothering with it; I am tired.

          As far as I can tell, this is a non-story at this point in time.

          The general who wins the battle makes many calculations in his temple before the battle is fought. The general who loses makes but few calculations beforehand. - Sun Tzu

          by Otteray Scribe on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 08:59:24 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I can tell you that my source was NOT (13+ / 0-)

          General Petraeus; however, I did a quick Google search before turning in for the night.  The story is here, dated January 21, 2010, so as I said, this is not exactly a breaking news story.

          This story was over more than 2 1/2 years ago. I fail to see why it is important to bring it up now.

          The general who wins the battle makes many calculations in his temple before the battle is fought. The general who loses makes but few calculations beforehand. - Sun Tzu

          by Otteray Scribe on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 09:11:41 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You get the objection (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            snowcity, Shawn Russell, Sandino, 43north

            to the secret anonymous source stuff, now NOT General Petraeus, when everything we need to talk about it is right in the article being discussed here?

            When the so-called "Jesus rifle" came to light in Jan. 2010, it sparked constitutional and security concerns, and a maelstrom of media coverage.
            First sentence.
            •  I have no idea what you are talking about. (12+ / 0-)

              I said that I had been told the manufacturer stopped putting the verse references into serial numbers when this first made news. You asked for sourcing. I had not seen the news story until I looked it up, and to make sure no incorrect assumptions were made, I mentioned that I had not heard it from General P., since the story referenced the General as a source.  The story from more than two years ago said all that needed to be said, since you asked for some sourcing and I took the time to find a story.  Without looking, I think it is safe to assume there are more stories; however, many news organizations remove old stories from their web pages, so there may not be as many stories about it now as there were when the story first broke.

              This is a long-dead story.  The scope manufacturer was told to stop embedding verse references into the serial numbers and they stopped.  What is so hard to understand about that?

              The general who wins the battle makes many calculations in his temple before the battle is fought. The general who loses makes but few calculations beforehand. - Sun Tzu

              by Otteray Scribe on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 10:11:34 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  What Garrett is saying (I believe) is that... (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Sandino

                You stated the story was to to use your words:

                over more than 2 1/2 years ago.
                However, the diarist already conceded that it was more than a year old in the first blockquote:
                ABC News reported when it broke the news in 2010.
                This is what Garrett pointed out (in the second comment). At least that's how I read it.

                The story also must have some new elements seeing as that it was published by NBC "8 hours ago," when I clicked on the link.

                •  Yes, the new element is that those rifles are (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Marko the Werelynx, BRog, Garrett

                  STILL going to the Afghan wars!

                  Like it says at the opening of the diary, an officer saw a "Jesus rifle" that had JUST been assigned to a soldier who is about to deploy. NOW, TUESDAY THIS WEEK, the anonymous officer took a photo of the marking on the rifle, it's in the NBC copy at the link in the first line.

                  So the military has had almost 3 years to clean this up and it still isn't done! Because apparently the PTB don't think Jesus rifles are a big deal! The tipster says in the NBC article that he's never seen one of the "Fix-it Kits" that are supposed to be available for removing, or filling in, the JN reference.

                  That's what the story, & the diary, is about.

                  "real" work : a job where you wash your hands BEFORE you use the bathroom...

                  by chimene on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 01:56:54 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Firstly, the markings are on the scopes... (10+ / 0-)

                    NOT the rifles.  Small, but important, distinction.

                    And no, you don't take defacing tools to delicate precision instruments that people's lives depend on without serious thought and consideration.  Yeah, I'm one of those people.  Got a problem with that?  The last fucking thing I'm going to do before going into a combat zone, or while in one, is fuck around with the tools that will be my only protection.  Because I sure don't see you volunteering to stand between me and the fucking incoming while I "fix" the moonbat-manufactured-faux-poutrage-du-jour just to assuage your sour sense of moral superiority.  Nor do I see you offering to buy me a new scope.  

                    People have been putting religous markings on weapons since the first rock was thrown in anger.  I'd make a bet with you about the weapons of the insurgents there, but it's to easy to look this stuff up yourself.

                    Lastly, since the story is well over 2 years old at this point, present evidence that myself or any other military member has been affected negatively by this, or put at any significantly greater risk, or drop the issue.  I'd say we've been more hassled by the MSM and other professional wailers than any other source.  Think about that.  Put your energies into doing something productive, like actually getting us all home.  Until then, step up to help fix the problem (i.e. put some fucking skin in the game), or stay the hell out of my way while I try to keep myself and my comrades alive in this debacle that people you helped elect allow to continue.

                    "Jesus rifles"...  Holy Fucking Moonbat Shit, Fatman....

                  •  Let's actually VIEW the object in question: (9+ / 0-)

                    Here's a link found in google image search:
                    http://www.veteransnewsnow.com/...

                    Now let's contrast that to the Crusades, and actually religious iconology:
                    http://www.military-art.com/...
                    http://www.bestofsicily.com/...

                    Note, I can tell you're spreading Christianity by the sword 100 meters away.  Contrast that to a serial number obscure to a combatant 100 millimeters away.  Toss-on some battle grime, and it's a non-issue, until you've killed me and looted my body.
                    By then, I cease to care.

                    Nice try.

      •  Furthermore, Trijicon's offered a fix: (7+ / 0-)

        source:
        http://en.wikipedia.org/...

        End of practice for government contracts

        On 22 January 2010, Trijicon announced it would stop the practice of engraving Biblical references on products sold to the government. It also offered to provide modification kits for the purpose of removing such engravings on sights already produced and sold to the military. In a statement, the company said it was both "prudent and appropriate" to remove the engravings.[10] Trijicon's consumer products are still engraved with Biblical references in accordance with company tradition. [11]

        I know some evangelical Christians who are mighty-pissed over the use of scripture this way, while I found it amusing.

        Particularly the quote from Psalms 27:1:
        The Lord is my light and my salvation/whom shall I fear?/The Lord is the stronghold of my life/of whom shall I be afraid? placed on the ACOG 6X.

    •  Andrew - the elements for treason are in the (6+ / 0-)

      Constitution. You should read them.

      "let's talk about that"

      by VClib on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 03:55:40 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I didn't think these things (0+ / 0-)

    were still being used.

    That something like this ever happened is one of the nastiest bits of war mongering in the name of Christianity that I've heard of in a long, long time.

    Somebody grind off those numbers already!

    It stinks of an attempt to turn a putrid situation into the unholy batshittiest conflict of all times. What should have been a hunt for the criminal terrorists who orchestrated the attacks on 9 / 11 is now forever tainted with this craptastic Kreestian versus Mooslim holy war idiocy. And yes, the terrorists can pick up one of these rifles and use it as a recruitment banner. Never mind that some of the American soldiers stationed in Afghanistan right now are Muslims; some of the Americans carrying these tiny, encoded bits of Christianist propaganda. This crap matters-- because it proves the lie that America is some sort of Christian nation with the single-minded purpose of destroying all other religions. To the company that supplied this stupidity I'd say, "because you couldn't take this business seriously we'll be taking our business elsewhere." And really, quoting Jesus on a rifle sight? It's like, like... aaargh!

    “The right of the people peaceably to assemble, to consult for the common good, and to petition the government, or any department thereof, shall never be abridged.”

    by Marko the Werelynx on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 03:20:43 AM PDT

    •  Yeah.... (5+ / 0-)

      because no armed forces, in the entire history of armed conflicts, ever put religious symbology on weapons before this... ever.

      Or... something.

      Right?

      •  If I understand you correctly (0+ / 0-)

        you're essentially saying that historical precedent of this sort of crap means that I should just shut up and sit down.

        I've got no right to be offended.

        This is just how the game is played, has always been played.

        Kinda brings a warm, fuzzy feeling knowing that some things never change. A proud tradition. Kill one for the faith bro'...

        Oog.

        “The right of the people peaceably to assemble, to consult for the common good, and to petition the government, or any department thereof, shall never be abridged.”

        by Marko the Werelynx on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 07:55:31 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  you are allowed to be offended (4+ / 0-)

          but unless it's your gun, why expend energy being offended about this when there are other more important things to be offended about?  things that you might actually be able to act on?  

          just asking.  

          The effects of religious dogmatism on the lives of women have been transparently negative; they are consigned to a livestock-like breeding cycle. -- Sam Harris

          by labwitchy on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 09:46:45 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I'm a big-hearted guy (0+ / 0-)

            I can love and hate nearly infinitely.

            There's no reason to not get concerned with the piddling little details. Who was it that said that death is in the details?

            Besides, it is my gun. I helped pay for the damn thing.

            A little thing called taxes gives me the right to get my feathers ruffled over all sorts of nonsense.

            That isn't to say I will bother to write a letter to my friendly neighborhood voice in government about this issue. Indeed, that time may be better spent elsewhere.

            Like posting late replies in an old post on a blog perhaps. Which is a thing I do with alarming frequency.

            Oh well, I'm not warming the cockles of anyone's heart here. Hoping you're enjoying your day. I certainly have enjoyed mine.

            “The right of the people peaceably to assemble, to consult for the common good, and to petition the government, or any department thereof, shall never be abridged.”

            by Marko the Werelynx on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 01:47:59 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Nope, that's not at all what I said. n/t (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          theatre goon, Otteray Scribe
    •  Marko - ever notice those nations complaining? (5+ / 0-)

      Are nations founded on the Holy Islamic principles?  You know, the old:  "Convert or die"?

      Oh, wait... you're not a TRUE follower of The Prophet... as you don't go to MY mosque, and follow the guidance of my Imam.
      So screw that whole "believer" thing - as you're not one.
      Off with his head.

      Yeah... no, I'm holding back on the indignation.

  •  This is an old story. (10+ / 0-)

    The company in question has done this for years on their consumer products--it's not like they decided to see if they could piss off Muslims. I'm not sure it's as big a deal as the diarist seems to think. As for endangering soldiers, would they be less likely to get shot if the offending numbers are removed?

    I doubt it.

    "A lie is not the other side of a story; it's just a lie."

    by happy camper on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 07:10:10 AM PDT

  •  i put this to you (7+ / 0-)

    if these are still being used by some combat forces, they know it.  they could pick up a dremel and grind the words off, or not.  there are various gun cleaning chemicals that will remove this engraving.

    that said, most soldiers that i know do not want anyone messing with the weapon they were issued.  it's their weapon, their protection, so, a great many would feel that altering markings or anything else on the weapon that was given them to use for saving lives, and yes, for killing enemies, is very persona, ergo, they don't want it altered unless that alteration will somehow give them an edge.

    it's a non-story as these markings are no longer being placed on the weaponry by the manufacturer.  i'm an atheist, but, if i were in combat and words or a sigil would ease my mind, i say, you do what you have to do to get your job done and your life preserved.  soldiers, sailors and many other involved in these professions may or may not be christian or religious but, we are all still human and sometimes irrational.  particularly when our very lives are dependent on luck, the benevolence of the universe or some other force outside our own control.

    The effects of religious dogmatism on the lives of women have been transparently negative; they are consigned to a livestock-like breeding cycle. -- Sam Harris

    by labwitchy on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 09:12:31 AM PDT

  •  I can't help but wonder.... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Otteray Scribe, theatre goon

    ...if the manufactured poutrage-du-jour would be as hearty, or as endorsed by otherwise intelligent people, if the scope manufacturers had used Celtic, American Indian, Hindu, Zulu, Norse or Greek warrior/religious symbols or references.

    Considering that the Greeks repeatedly broke the Persians, and how far Alexander got in his conquests... hmmm...  I have an idea for my next deployment.  

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site