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Mitt Romney takes his 89th position* on taxes in his latest ad, including the laughably false claim that he's the one who will ask millionaires to pay more in taxes:

The ad makes three claims: that President Obama has already raised taxes on the middle class, that Mitt Romney's plan would reduce taxes for the middle class, and that Romney's plan would crack down on millionaire tax dodgers by closing loopholes.

Let's take the claims one by one.

Claim #1: "Who will raise taxes on the middle class? Barack Obama and the liberals already have."

This claim is not true. The problem with this claim is that it focuses entirely on new taxes in Obamacare (for example, an increase in the tax on cigarettes) but ignores the fact that President Obama has cut taxes by even more. Moreover, President Obama has not increased income taxes on anybody. In aggregate, there's been a reduction in taxes not just for the middle class but for every single taxpayer, including the wealthy.

Last week, Romney himself acknowledged that Obama hadn't raised taxes. "I admit this, he has one thing he did not do in his first four years — he’s said he’s going to do in the next four years — which is to raise taxes," he said. In fact, Romney opposed many of these tax cuts, including the payroll tax holiday and the tax cuts in the stimulus bill.

Claim #2: "Mitt Romney and commonsense conservatives will cut taxes on the middle class."

The problem here is that Romney is ignoring the fact that he's promised to reduce tax deductions to pay for lower rates so that overall taxes would not go down. Last week, he told supporters not to expect to see a significantly lower tax bill under his plan. "By the way, don't be expecting a huge cut in taxes because I'm also going to lower deductions and exemptions," he said. In fact, if Romney maintains his pledge for revenue neutrality, taxes would actually need to go up on the middle class to pay for the enormous tax cuts he promises to the wealthy. The only way to avoid a tax hike would be to explode the deficit.

Claim #3: "They [Mitt Romney and commonsense conservatives] will close loopholes for millionaires."

The problem with this claim is essentially the inverse of the problem with the second claim: It's true that Romney's plan calls for reducing unspecified tax breaks enjoyed by millionaires, but it's also true that his tax plan calls for reducing their tax rate by 20 percent. The value of that 20 percent tax break dwarfs the cost of giving up deductions, so it's a trade upper income taxpayers would happily make. Sure, there would be fewer loopholes, but thanks to lower rates, the wealthy would still pay less in taxes. That's the central problem with Romney's tax plan—it means that unless he abandons his tax cuts for the wealthy, he needs to choose between exploding the deficit or raising taxes on the middle class, neither of which are politically acceptable options.

Despite the ad's distortions, it's easy to understand why Mitt Romney is running it: If he can convince voters that he actually wants to ask the wealthy to pay more and for the middle class to pay less, he could ease the sting of that 47 percent video. But the only way he can make that case is by misrepresenting the facts. As long as he insists on tax cuts for the wealthy, tax cuts for the middle class, and no reduction in revenue, Mitt Romney's tax plan is mathematically impossible. Perhaps his best bet would be to dump his tax plan altogether, but don't expect that anytime soon from Mr. No Apologies.

*Okay, I don't actually know for a fact that this is his 89th position. He's had so darn many of them, it's hard to keep track.

Originally posted to The Jed Report on Tue Oct 02, 2012 at 08:50 AM PDT.

Also republished by Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Mitt who™? (14+ / 0-)

    Just warmin' up...

    Float like a manhole cover, sting like a sash weight! Clean Coal Is A Clinker!

    by JeffW on Tue Oct 02, 2012 at 08:58:33 AM PDT

    •  I have been resisting using that silly middle name (5+ / 0-)

      However, it turns out that mingy is a word and Mingy Mitt works well.
      Think of that -- already a word in the dictionary that means stingy and mean. A mingy is a mean stingy, which may well be worse than a mean drunk, since the latter is likely to be unsteady on his feet.

      We organize governments to provide benefits and prevent abuse.

      by hannah on Tue Oct 02, 2012 at 09:43:37 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Eb-mitt-nezer Scrooge is more like it! (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      annieli, JeffW

      Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

      by tekno2600 on Tue Oct 02, 2012 at 11:02:21 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Because Mitt sounds TOTALLY credible when he (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JBraden, DSPS owl, JeffW

      promises to cut loopholes for millionaires.

      If Rmoney's propaganda team were smart (yeah, I know, if black were white, etc.) they would sell him as the EXPERT on millionaire loopholes: "I'm the best guy to get rid of them because I know exactly where they all are and how they work" -- the same way FDR sold Joe Kennedy (a notorious Wall Street operator) to be the first chairman of the SEC.

      But, that would require both some honesty and some imagination. So obviously we can rule it out.

  •  in a pig's eye you will, mittens (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tardis10, JeffW, Gorette

    "Show up. Pay attention. Tell the truth. And don't be attached to the results." -- Angeles Arrien

    by Sybil Liberty on Tue Oct 02, 2012 at 09:02:27 AM PDT

  •  problem w/ this ad: easy for Obama to rebut. (6+ / 0-)

    desperate.  proof the 47% thing is killing him.  Jed, please write a diary about romney and taxes.  his campaign really boils down to a guy whose life revolves around making money and not paying taxes has been put into the position of having to defend that.

    My best guess was a reflection that did not look back, an image lost in every mirror.

    by Zacapoet on Tue Oct 02, 2012 at 09:07:05 AM PDT

    •  Well yeah, it may be easy to rebut . . . (4+ / 0-)

      but that's beside the point. The facts don't matter. Just because somebody "rebuts" this -- whether it's Obama himself or an Obama ad or Jed Lewison -- is of no consequence whatever. Lies are just as effective as the truth, if not more so. Persuadable voters don't have any independent way of determining who is telling the truth -- they'll be swayed by what feels good, by the production values, by their pre-conceived notions of which party is likely to do what (and everybody knows that Democrats raise their taxes).

      Romney lies because it works. There is no penalty for lying.

      •  I think we're past Romney being truthful period (0+ / 0-)

        I think a lot of folks get that anything that comes out of his mouth at this point is pretty much a lie. Is there anybody who takes his word for anything anymore?

        That 47% video just solidified what a lot people were already thinking about him - that he's a elitist plutocrat who doesn't care or care to understand people like him.

  •  hes not only desperate but (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JeffW, blue aardvark, shoeless

    Someone had a good point about Medicare. People are inclined to believe democrats will preserve Medicare and the republicans will destroy it. That's why all that bluster Ryan said about wanting to have that fight was all talk. He has now since retreated from that and acknowledges they are losing that fight but says they were winning in the beginning.

    The same thing with this. Who the hell is going to believe that romney will cut taxes for millionaires? It's not an argument they will win and Obama can rebut easily. He can honestly win that argument without a retort because its just so Bullshit.

    •  They haven't all retreated. (0+ / 0-)

      Steve King is running an ad, ironically called "truth," repeating the lie that ObamaCare cuts Medicare by $716 billion. King wouldn't recognize "truth" if it flew up and hit him in the face. The Des Moines Register ran a story on the ad with Christy Vilsack's campaign's response, complete with independent fact checking.

  •  This whole thing is a hoax. (5+ / 0-)

    We need to change the conversation. The federal government, our government, issues dollars; taxes are designed to bring the dollars back and keep the money circulating. When financial engineers sequester dollars in their accounts, no goods and services are produced. They're just playing with the dollars, as if they had no practical use.
    What Wall Street is doing with our money is abuse. It does not differ overly much from other kinds of abuse that are not worth mentioning.

    Anyway, Randy Wray has a way to change the conversation:

    We organize governments to provide benefits and prevent abuse.

    by hannah on Tue Oct 02, 2012 at 09:36:18 AM PDT

  •  Romney is a joke. God I hope he goes away after (5+ / 0-)

    he loses to Obama in november

    "Rick Perry talks a lot and he's not very bright. And that's a combination I like in Republicans." --- James Carville

    by LaurenMonica on Tue Oct 02, 2012 at 09:46:01 AM PDT

  •  This is so vintage Karl Rove it's ridiculous! (7+ / 0-)

    Mitt's trying to transfer his weaknesses over to the president. Doesn't he have any other trick besides the Rove projection technique? Unless there's something else he hasn't shown in his eight years of running for president, Mitt's nothing but a shallow one-trick pony who's running a juvenile campaign for president and is about to be beaten badly in his general election bid.

    "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." --Gandhi

    by alaprst on Tue Oct 02, 2012 at 09:56:14 AM PDT

  •  Mr 1%: "53-47 or fight!" /nt (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JeffW, shoeless

    yksitoista ulotteinen presidentin shakki. / tappaa kaikki natsit "Nous sommes un groupuscule" (-9.50; -7.03) 政治委员, 政委‽ Warning - some snark above ‽

    by annieli on Tue Oct 02, 2012 at 10:32:34 AM PDT

  •  Mitt's plan - close loopholes (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jfromga, Gorette, shoeless, wxorknot, cocinero

    and then get rid of cap gains taxes altogether.

    So I can't deduct my 20 mil mortgage interest, but I don't pay any taxes on 99% of my income, so I wind up with way more in my pocket.

    That's the plan.

  •  Check out this pic of early voters in iowa! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    blue aardvark, DSPS owl

    I'm betting they're not the types to be fooled by Rove's ploys.

    "Democrats have the heart to care."

    by jeepdad on Tue Oct 02, 2012 at 10:35:35 AM PDT

  •  Romney will eliminate capital gains taxes (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jfromga, shoeless

    With that in mind, a millionaire will not give a flying fig about the home mortgage interest deduction (assuming that millionaires take out loans on their houses.)

    •  Which day was that his plan? (0+ / 0-)

      I think the key part of Romney's plan is that everyone with the surname "Romney" will be exempt from all taxes, Federal and State, in perpetuity.

      Then, there will be an effort to turn us into a Theocracy, with Mittens as "Earthly Ruler", a post that will be hereditary, going to the eldest son, unless there is only one child and she is (retch) a person with lady parts.  Undoubtedly magic ones.

  •  It is actually his 91st position if you include (3+ / 0-)

    'none of the above' and 'all of the above' which he has also endorsed.

    We have only just begun and none too soon.

    by global citizen on Tue Oct 02, 2012 at 10:38:00 AM PDT

  •  Romney closing tax loopholes for millionaires? (3+ / 0-)

    That is like students offering to do more homework!

    •  No, see some of those loopholes have been leaking (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DSPS owl

      When Romney says that he is "closing" them, what he means is that he is making them more watertight and effective, so the costs of fancy accounting can be cut back.

      Now do you understand?

  •  Will someone PLEASE make a professional (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    YoungArizonaLiberal, shoeless

    FLIP-FLOP ad about all the stances he has taken!  I want a daily FLIP-FLOP add released by the DNC or Team Obama.  It is long overdue.  Why are they so afraid of using the words FLIP-FLOP in every single ad about Romney?

    It works!

    "Dear Mr. President, there are too many states nowadays. Please eliminate three. I am not a crackpot." - Grandpa Simpson

    by ourhispanicvoices on Tue Oct 02, 2012 at 10:41:00 AM PDT

  •  The critically important thing is this (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    shoeless, DSPS owl

    He means it about cutting his own taxes. That's his core value, and perhaps his only political value worth mentioning.

    The rest is negotiable.

    Romney economics: Feed our seed corn to the fattest pigs and trust them to poop out jobs.

    by blue aardvark on Tue Oct 02, 2012 at 10:41:08 AM PDT

  •  who best to do it; professional courtesy: 1% of us (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    that he's the one who will ask millionaires to pay more in taxes

    yksitoista ulotteinen presidentin shakki. / tappaa kaikki natsit "Nous sommes un groupuscule" (-9.50; -7.03) 政治委员, 政委‽ Warning - some snark above ‽

    by annieli on Tue Oct 02, 2012 at 10:42:53 AM PDT

  •  Personally, I think Romney's priority (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    will be to cut taxes on the trillions in corporate profits stored offshore--something the big players have been pushing for.  It will accompanied by a claim that it will promote jobs. Potentially, it could create some, but the equation that companies use in deciding where to conduct business is much more complex and probably will still rely mostly on offshore operations.  It would, however, give the .1% more freedom in spending their wealth...particularly when it comes to spending it to influence Congress and elections, and buying up public resources for private gain.

    Speak the truth, but ride a fast horse.

    by Deep Harm on Tue Oct 02, 2012 at 10:43:40 AM PDT

  •  It must get tiresome.. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    ..telling lies all the time.

    Maybe that's why it's such hard work for Mitt to campaign.

    Me? I'd be happier if he just fucked off--it's getting tiresome hearing all the lies all the time.


  •  Mitt will cut taxes for us bums in the 47%? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    annieli, starduster

    I thought he said we don't pay ANY taxes and he'll never convince us to take personal responsibility or care about our lives. If he cuts taxes for people in the 53%, then won't that increase the percentage of people who pay no net federal income tax and make people dependent on government? Why are you such a Communist, Mitt?

    Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

    by tekno2600 on Tue Oct 02, 2012 at 10:45:20 AM PDT

  •  The problem with ads like these (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DSPS owl

    is that they absolutely cut against the prevailing narrative. People aren't going to believe that a Democrat is the champion of the rich and that Republicans are going to go after the rich and champion the middle class. That just doesn't pass the smell test.

    I suppose that Romney could continue to hammer Obama on the "he's going to raise taxes on everyone" idea, but after the 47% comment, he sounds like the one who wants to just raise taxes on the poor.

    "Because Romney's a clown . . ."--Henry Francis

    by LeftCoastTimm on Tue Oct 02, 2012 at 10:45:37 AM PDT

  •  Can we all spell B.U.L.L.S.H.*.T ... (0+ / 0-)


    "The real wealth of a nation consists of the contributions of its people and nature." -- Rianne Eisler

    by noofsh on Tue Oct 02, 2012 at 10:47:32 AM PDT

  •  if you give no numbers (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    and won't show your work, the math works perfectly in sync with Mtt's claims.   If you actually use numbers, it works about as well as Rove's math.

    He lies, he is reactive, not in a good way, explaining why his way is better for the economy, he just lies.

    No wonder he is bleeding support.  We are a month away from an election and the man has never once given any one in the general population a hint of what he stands for.  Professional a'ginners are a dime a dozen.  We are looking for a President, and a President stands for something.  Bush was an idiot, but at least some of his backassward beliefs were sincere.

  •  The ad's source doesn't back up what its claims (0+ / 0-)

    The lone CBO report (dated 7/24/12) that the ad refers to as its source of a couple of its claims (that "you'll pay higher taxes and more for medicine" and "their plan includes trillions in new taxes even on the middle class") don't actually back up those claims. As far as I can find, the only report the CBO released on July 24, 2012 is this response to a request by John Boehner for it to evaluate the budgetary impact of the Republican's Repeal of Obamacare Act.

    So I suspect the Romney camp, through tortured reasoning, extrapolated from the CBO's response that, somehow that, by NOT supporting the Repeal of Obamacare Act which also included a provision to "eliminate certain taxes on individuals and families with relatively high incomes," Obama has in effect raised taxes.

    Or something.

  •  reminds me of the hidden Boca Raton video (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MaikeH, annieli, highacidity, DSPS owl

    The lighting, the low angle, the backs of the kids' heads. I can't imagine why they would do that purposefully.

    All things in the sky are pure to those who have no telescopes. – Charles Fort

    by subtropolis on Tue Oct 02, 2012 at 10:52:14 AM PDT

  •  Mitt wants to be Obama's fraternal twin (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    What Obama policy is he NOT coopting while at the same time criticizing Obama for the exact same policy?  

    Taxes, check
    Immigration law, check
    Health Care law, check
    Defense, check

    ...I suppose he thinks that just because he's white, people will vote for him, as his policy statements are nearly identical to Obama's actual policies.

    Republicans...What a nice club...of liars, cheaters, adulterers, exaggerators, hypocrites and ignoramuses. Der Spiegel -6.62, -6.92

    by CanyonWren on Tue Oct 02, 2012 at 10:52:58 AM PDT

  •  Romney is going to crack down on himself? (0+ / 0-)

    Is he going to make it illegal to hide his money in the Caymen Islands? While he's at it, he should make it illegal to raid companies for their pension funds, or to tie your dog to the top of your car.

    When you don't vote, Mitt happens.

    by shoeless on Tue Oct 02, 2012 at 10:53:14 AM PDT

  •  Who are.... (0+ / 0-)

    ...they kidding this this ad??

  •  ot, some action links (0+ / 0-)

    Spread the word.

    LTE. Media Activism Kit:

    Telephone: 1-866-OUR-VOTE

  •  Did Tax-Hike Mitt get permission from Norquist & (0+ / 0-)

    Boehner to raise taxes on millionaires? Boehner has killed bills before for containing $1 of tax increases. I also thought Mitt didn't believe in redistribution, because that "never been a part of America."

    Of course, he doesn't need permission for this, since there is no way his plan would raise millionaires' taxes. The funny thing is, he says its revenue neutral, and claims millionaires would pay more. But, then he tell Middle Class people not to expect to pay less. So, how is that a tax cut? How is Paul Ryan saying this "tax cut" plan will create 7 million jobs, but people will pay about the same or more in taxes?

    Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

    by tekno2600 on Tue Oct 02, 2012 at 11:01:13 AM PDT

  •  Please have Obama say "That's a lie" ... (0+ / 0-)

    During the debate Wednesday. I would so much love to see Romney try to defend himself against a sitting President calling him out. It would be so precious just to watch him squirm!!!

    "I think it's the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately." -- George Carlin, Satirical Comic,(1937-2008)

    by Wynter on Tue Oct 02, 2012 at 11:01:57 AM PDT

  •  Love Daily Kos (0+ / 0-)

    Nothing cuts through the bullshit, and gets to the heart of the issue like the stuff I read on this site. It's no wonder the right wing hates it so much.
    Honestly, without the ability to manipulate the obtuse and emotionally fragile with their fear/hate mongering and lies, what would the right wing have? Is a platform of angry bullshit sustainable?

  •  How many positions has he had? (0+ / 0-)

    I think 89 is kind of low. Actually I would have added, echoing a line about the number of productions of "HMS Pinafore" in New York in 1878: "Positions taken after 12:00 PM Eastern time not included."

    You and I are going to spend our sunset years telling our children's children what it was once like in America when 25% of the population was batshit insane.

    by Omir the Storyteller on Tue Oct 02, 2012 at 11:03:32 AM PDT

  •  Are the Tax Plans going to be in the Debate? (0+ / 0-)

    I mean Mittens has ducked and dodged any and all specifics thus far. So what the hell is he going to say to fill the block of time at the debate? Sing America the Beautiful?

    "I think it's the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately." -- George Carlin, Satirical Comic,(1937-2008)

    by Wynter on Tue Oct 02, 2012 at 11:05:45 AM PDT

    •  I sure hope there will be (0+ / 0-)

      lots of debate time devoted to taxes and this deficit, fiscal cliff business.

      I would never in a million years vote for Romney. Never. But I'd really appreciate being pointed to good sites, posts here, whatever, that explain what Obama would do, about taxes, about Simpson-Bowles, which I deplore. I have never not voted "for" a presidential candidate and I've never not voted in an election. For me this election drags the US down to the absolutely ludicrous v. a guy whose real plans and allegiances I just can't seem to see.

      I am in despair. Of course, as a politically engaged American it's not the first time I've been here.  I don't see evidence that the  government is going to do anything to address the real challenges of the age, other than help the holders of wealth to gather as many of the planet's dwindling resources to themselves as possible and  build enough walls and weapons to protect them from the raging rabble.

      Don't ask me nothin' about nothin'. I just might tell ya the truth -- B. Dylan

      by ponderer on Tue Oct 02, 2012 at 11:27:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Truth Is Over-Rated (0+ / 0-)

    Why tell the truth when a lie works much better?

  •  His writers simply look at what the people want (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DSPS owl

    to hear and then tell them that Romney will do that.  

    What do most people want?  Not much, really. It is crystal clear that a HUGE majority of people simply want fairness.  They want the middle class to get a break.  They want everyone (including the poor) to have health care and safety nets available.  They want the elderly to have a steady income.  They want the rich to pay their fair share.  And so on. It is really asking very little (sadly) but it is a big shift away from oligarchical thinking, and that is unthinkable to those highly invested in that way of being/thinking/doing.  

    So what is an oligarchical leader to do?  He has to on the one hand placate his own class and convince them that he is working in their best interest, and also placate the masses of people he is using and abusing to feel they HAVE NO OPTION but to support him because the alternative is SCARY (use whatever scare tactics seem to work best).  All of this involves a lot of lying, of course.  And as Ann says, "this is hard".  It is also makes your "emotional well being" something your wife needs to monitor and worry about.  

    To the extent that Romney can bamboozle a good number of voters into believing that HE will actually be the one to care for them (!), NOT Obama... then he has a chance.  But he also needs to fan the fire of hatred of Obama in various ways.  The two strategies require a whole mess of contradictory "facts".  Because, in what most agree is reality, Obama is the one at least leaning towards doing what most people want and Romney is working against that.  

    So he has to talk out of two sides of his mouth, and he switches sides depending on his audience.  It is quite hilarious that he has to now convince people that HE is one that is going to raise taxes on the wealthy and cut taxes for the middle class.  

    But I guess this is common everyday stuff for him.  

    The abuser class has been playing this game for generations.  They ARE abusing us:  "don't worry honey, I'll take care of you, I'll do whatever you want..." then he gets drunk and talks to his buddies about what a slut he is married to and how she doesn't deserve his money and time.   '

    In order for Romney to please his wealthy donors he will say one thing and to the masses he will say another.  All abusers carry an Etch-a-Sketch along with them.  That is one reason they are so maddening to deal with.  

    The good news is that I believe everyone, to some degree, is waking up to all of this.  This is an old game, and we all want and need to move on to a new game.  

    Romney will lose, even while employing massive election theft techniques, because too many people have already woken up.  

  •  Just wow. (0+ / 0-)

    This is what I'd expected when I was worried about how much the Obama Administration had spent, months ago, and it's just the opening salvo.

    Meanwhile, check your logic at the door any time Republicans say "Common Sense."

    The victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory.

    by Pacifist on Tue Oct 02, 2012 at 11:12:05 AM PDT

  •  Well, here we are...again. (0+ / 0-)

    Same 'ol Republican Projection Theatre brought to you by Rove & Co.

    The thing I am left with; does the American electorate have the ability to discern a lie when they see and hear it?

    "Common sense conservatives," my ass. I would be willing to bet there are voters right now saying to themselves, yeah I know Mitt isn't everything I want, but hey, at least they're common sense conservatives.

    Is America really paying attention?

    "We can either have democracy in this country or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." Louis Brandeis

    by wxorknot on Tue Oct 02, 2012 at 11:14:20 AM PDT

  •  So, why's he running as a Republican? (0+ / 0-)

    He'd better start stumping for Democrats because he'll never get these lofty initiatives through a Republican congress.

    I was starting to feel left out, but Mitt finally got around to insulting me, or at least my intelligence.

    I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!

    by itsjim on Tue Oct 02, 2012 at 11:20:28 AM PDT

  •  Shouldn't there be some kind of disclaimer ... (0+ / 0-)

    Warning:  This advertisement is not intended to be factually accurate.  Voting for any Republican may be hazardous to your health.

  •  OMG!!!! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    It's all lies!!!!!


    and your point is?

    None of the other lies have been debunked in any widespread easy to digest in your face because you're too lazy to change the channel kinda way.

    Another round of bullshit that smart people will know is a lie, and a whole swath of the population of the United States will take as gospel.

    That won't be debunked, that CAN'T be debunked enough once it's been spread over creation.

    Why is it that a 3% tax increase for the wealthy is considered "socialism" and an 8% wage cut for the middle class is "doing your part"? MartyM

    by delphine on Tue Oct 02, 2012 at 11:37:07 AM PDT

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