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Three things stuck in my mind and I just have to get them out.

First, after all of Romney's whining about how much Obama was going to be lying, while Romney was saying in the debate that Obama is just repeating lies so many times in hopes that people would believe them, he spent how much time repeating the 716 billion from Medicare lie? Obama had to spend time playing defense because Romney kept repeating that lie. We need a moderator who knows some of the widely used lies so the moderator can stand up and call out lies. This would have led to a much more productive debate, not just from a progressive perspective but in terms of having a meaningful, productive discussion of the issues.

Second, Romney says that this "cutting 716 billion" will lead to hospitals and doctors refusing Medicare patients. Then, he turns around and says he will make the same cuts and reinvest them into Medicare (to pay for the voucher program or what?). You can't have it both ways. Either these "716 billion in cuts" are going to be bad or not.

Third, Al Gore's sighs in 2000 were blown way out of proportion as disrespectful. How about Romney cutting people off? How many times did Romney cut off Jim Lehrer? It got to the point that Romney was running the debate. There was at least one instance where Romney cut off Obama mid-sentence and nothing was done about it, either by Lehrer or Obama. Problem 1: Lehrer lost control and did nothing to take it back. Problem 2: Is the media going to treat Romney's disrespectful cutting off of both his opponent and the ineffective moderator in the same way as Gore's few sighs? If it got even the same treatment, much less treatment proportional to the level of disruption caused, Romney would be getting blasted today.

Originally posted to RHinWI on Thu Oct 04, 2012 at 05:53 AM PDT.

Also republished by Badger State Progressive.

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Comment Preferences

  •  The problem was Obama (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dolfin66, RHinWI, Sunspots

    Like it or not, the President was so determined to look presidential he looked disconnected.  Is this the movie The American President? He better come out with fire and blister Romney on the next one, and they better have Biden eviscerate Ryan or they will lose this close election. Don't blame Romney, don't blame the moderator, the President has to take all the blame for this one.

    •  Agreed. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      It was an unmitigated disaster for the President.  The "ordinary" voter who watched that sorry thing of a "debate" must have left feeling sick to his stomach IF he realized the non-stop lies coming from Romney that weren't refuted by Obama.  Most will just start believing Romney.  I'm disgusted and disheartened.

      "Have a beginner's mind at all times, for a beginner knows nothing and learns all while a sophisticate knows all and learns nothing." - Suzuki

      by dolfin66 on Thu Oct 04, 2012 at 06:20:48 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yes, Obama is culpable (0+ / 0-)

      Shoot, just lost a long reply and I'll never rewrite it as well as I did the first time so I won't try.

      I'm not trying to excuse Obama's culpability here. He tried to take the high road and I appreciate the attempt. He should have seen, though, that it wasn't working and had a plan B for that. He should have called out Romney on his many repeated lies. He should have point blank asked Romney why he wouldn't even make any proposals for tax deductions to get rid of. He should have pointed out Romney's hypocrisy in saying "cutting 716 billion from Medicare" is going to be harmful, then turning around to say he's going to make the same cuts "and return the savings to Medicare". You can't say the "cuts" are harmful, then say you're going to make the same "cuts". There's no excuse for Obama allowing Romney to cut him off mid-sentence, then just fall silent.

      At the same time, Lehrer lost control of the debate. He needed to step up and demand that Romney not cut people off and not play by his own rules. Also, instead of the media cheerleading Romney's "great performance" at the debate, why aren't they pointing out his lies? They would claim they want to help inform the electorate but they are doing no such thing right now.

      Again, Obama had the power to hit back at Romney and failed to do so. He deserves a lot of blame for what happened and I wasn't trying to excuse his blame. In fact, my post may not have been clear in the early morning fog I was writing in but I'd assign as much blame to him as anyone for what transpired. My point is that those were the failure points of the debate. I think others hold some responsibility in those failure points but, in the end, Obama is the candidate on the stage. He needs to fight back in the next two debates. He needs to come out swinging. He has a lot of weapons at his disposal, he needs to use them.

  •  I have an idea, if you don't want to get cut off (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dolfin66, Sunspots

    and are the POTUS, maybe you should forcefully refute the lies and go right back at him. As far as I'm concerned, if the president doesn't want the job, maybe he should have let someone else run. We can make all the excuses, that performance is an embarrassment and another aloof performance like that and the presidency is lost. Heck, he almost lost my vote last night.

    •  Wow (5+ / 0-)

      If one "aloof" performance caused you to almost decide not to vote for him, your convictions are about 1/8 inch thick.

      Still enjoying my stimulus package.

      by Kevvboy on Thu Oct 04, 2012 at 06:15:05 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Not at all, but if you can't even show up prepared (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        to this important an event, then yeah, for the first time in many years, I question my commitment. Readily willing to admit it. Last night was a sick joke. How our president could go out of his way to make Romney look more human is beyond me. I don't like quitters and Obama, not me, quit on the cause.

        •  He was prepared. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          manucpa, BRog

          You can say they picked the wrong strategy.  

          "A sick joke?"  You watched a different debate than I did.  This reminds me of people who thought in 2008 that Obama walked on water; they were the first to turn on him the minute something went a little amiss.

          Still enjoying my stimulus package.

          by Kevvboy on Thu Oct 04, 2012 at 06:38:09 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  I wish Obama had done.. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      just that.  God knows Romney gave him enough opportunity being that the lies were non- top.

      "Have a beginner's mind at all times, for a beginner knows nothing and learns all while a sophisticate knows all and learns nothing." - Suzuki

      by dolfin66 on Thu Oct 04, 2012 at 06:21:57 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Really? Really?! (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      Heck, he almost lost my vote last night.

      I get that you are disappointed and your statement is probably hyperbole, but that comes across as:

      Obama's debate performance is almost as important as:
      Health care,
      Supreme Court nominations,
      Tax policy,
      Telling the truth,
      etc., etc., etc.

      •  It is and it isn't. A Democrat winning this (0+ / 0-)

        election is what matters. Why in the hell Obama didn't even show up bothers me. Obviously he has my vote, my point is I'm an easy audience for him and he was atrocious. Nothing about his debate, all other things left out of it, would make me believe he even wants the job. And his campaign today seems oblivious.

  •  Perceived weakness is a loser (0+ / 0-)

    As ol' Bill Clinton is supposed to have said, people will always vote for strong and wrong over weak and right.  

    And a lot of what our guy said was pretty Right-Wing, for instance, "tweaking" our social  safety net, "like Reagan did."  Agh.

  •  Tipped, recced and republished to (0+ / 0-)

    I started with nothing and still have most of it left. - Seasick Steve

    by ruleoflaw on Thu Oct 04, 2012 at 08:01:05 PM PDT

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