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Comment Preferences

  •  And it is quite difficult to keep up with (17+ / 0-)

    all the lies of a lying liar. Almost impossible to debate someone like this who is just galloping from one falsehood to the next misleading statement.

  •  What Atrios said (18+ / 0-)
    "I know we don't live in a sane world, we live in a world where Paul Ryan is Very Serious because he usually manages to tie his shoes, but someone has to say it."
     - Atrios

    White-collar conservatives flashing down the street, pointing their plastic finger at me..

    by BOHICA on Thu Oct 11, 2012 at 06:07:25 AM PDT

  •  I have a lot of confidence that Biden knows ... (5+ / 0-)

    how to handle Ryan.

    I have less confidence that this will make a big difference.

    "The smartest man in the room is not always right." -Richard Holbrooke

    by Demi Moaned on Thu Oct 11, 2012 at 06:07:32 AM PDT

    •  President Paul Ryan...thinkabootit...;-) (0+ / 0-)
    •  I Fear the Same Thing... (3+ / 0-)

      ...I hate being pessimistic, but the race has taken a nasty turn and I am trying to imagine what could swing it back the other way.

      "Every good Christian should line up and kick Jerry Falwell's ass." ------Barry Goldwater

      by chicagorich on Thu Oct 11, 2012 at 06:25:10 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Talk about the 47% and the 716 billion lies on (3+ / 0-)

        Medicare. There are lots of ways to slap RomRy back down.

        This race hasn't taken ANY turn, by the way. Obama is still up. But, we always knew it would tighten one way or the other. He just had one bad performance at a bad time.

        I worry that we might now be placing too many of our hopes on Biden tonight.

        He might have some gaffs and Ryan is not going to be easy to pin down. We are going to have to win this game on door knocks and phone calls, not expect these bullshit debates to mean anything.

        Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

        by tekno2600 on Thu Oct 11, 2012 at 07:30:54 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I think the 716 Billion lie (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Dumas EagerSeton

          is so simple that anyone can understand it. Heck, quote Bill Clinton and tell him he's "got a lot of brass for accusing someone else of doing what you just did."

          I'm not a parent, but when I was a kid, one of the worst feelings was when my Mom or Dad would say "I'm really disappointed in you." Not mad, not upset - but disappointed. I wonder how effective it might be if that's the tone Biden takes with Ryan. That he's disappointed by all the lies.

          Progressives are defined by who they want to help; Conservatives are defined by who they hate.

          by frsbdg on Thu Oct 11, 2012 at 07:45:38 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  That could work. Ryan has to remember not to seem (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            wintergreen8694

            to smart alecky...which could be a challenge for him. That would make him seem very unpresidential and work in Biden's favor. But, at the same time, Biden can't overplay the stern grandpa role. He needs to just be who he is and if Ryan acts like a little snot nose, then Biden absolutely can bust out the ol' paddle and give 'em a good whack.

            Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

            by tekno2600 on Thu Oct 11, 2012 at 08:52:22 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Don't know if this is the tack JoBi will take but (0+ / 0-)
            I'm not a parent, but when I was a kid, one of the worst feelings was when my Mom or Dad would say "I'm really disappointed in you." Not mad, not upset - but disappointed. I wonder how effective it might be if that's the tone Biden takes with Ryan. That he's disappointed by all the lies
            personally Ryan won't give two shiites less about that.  You need to actually have some type of conscious for that to sink in.  Neither Ryan nor Rmoney have them.  More likely the MSM would be all over that and go after Biden as being "condescending" or "too fatherly"...

            Put another way: the MSM is gunning for Joe tonight and will be looking for every reason to pump up Ryan.  They'll go easy on widdle Paulie b/c because they consider him a neophyte - plus they're heavily weighted to the right.  Worst of all is their dangerous habit of making every fucking election a horserace so they can sell airtime and column inches for their profit margins.

            Ugh.  The state of our "media" and politics really suck in a dangerous way.

            Is anybody listenin' ? - by Tori del Allen

            by Dumas EagerSeton on Thu Oct 11, 2012 at 01:14:04 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  I think it will make a big difference to (12+ / 0-)

      Seniors.

      As long as Biden hammers home "CouponCare."

      •  Bentsen-Quayle remains the gold standard ... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dartagnan

        of Democratic triumph in a Vice-Presidential debate. But it didn't move the polling much, so let's not set our expectations too high for this.

        "The smartest man in the room is not always right." -Richard Holbrooke

        by Demi Moaned on Thu Oct 11, 2012 at 08:43:40 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  only if it puts a seed of doubt (ala Palin) (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wintergreen8694

      that Ryan is completely unprepared to be "one heartbeat away from the Presidency".

      I think (hope/pray) that Joe will make Ryan look like a spoiled brat child who can't be trusted, whose only interest is having the lifeboat for himself.

      Warning: That light at the end of the tunnel just might be an oncoming train.

      by history first on Thu Oct 11, 2012 at 08:46:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  In the last clip...you can see his hands (5+ / 0-)

    move.  It's a classic body language signal that he knows he's caught.

    David Koch is Longshanks, and Occupy is the real Braveheart.

    by PsychoSavannah on Thu Oct 11, 2012 at 06:10:48 AM PDT

    •  A lot of "tells" (5+ / 0-)

      I agree, he actually seems to have a lot of what poker players call "tells". I notice that whenever he's really going to town with the lying he crumples up his forehead so that those three very deep creases appear while drawing back his mouth in that "I don't have my dentures in" manner. Off topic, but how anyone can call this man handsome totally eludes me -- I keep wanting to remind him to put his teeth in.

      "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -- Einstein

      by reginahny on Thu Oct 11, 2012 at 06:24:19 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  And.... (8+ / 0-)

      He starts with the schoolboyish, 'awww come on, I thought you were gonna ask some tough questions', and when he does get asked some tough questions he gets really, really smarmily serious and then lies, and then runs, 'gotta go see the rest of the fair!'.
      Question: where's lyin' Ryan gonna run away to, in the debate?  Hmmmm....I guess to another whopper!  It will be waist deep (or more) in Ryan's whoppers at the end of the evening.
      Please Joe, take this mendacious jackal to the figurative woodshed.  
      For everyone to see.

      I think, therefore I am........................... Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose....AKA Engine Nighthawk - don't even ask!

      by Lilyvt on Thu Oct 11, 2012 at 07:08:16 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I would like to see all candidates (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      reginahny

      wired up with polygraphs with readouts at the bottom of the screen or split screen or even post-debate analysis of the data.

      Only semi snarking here.

      "The bass player is always right"

      by BigOkie on Thu Oct 11, 2012 at 07:18:13 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Release the Biden (4+ / 0-)

    The full throated wind Biden, and turn him up to 11

  •  i'm turning my cap around, (4+ / 0-)

    getting hot dogs ready,
    looking for the OFA scorecard,
    and am just gonna enjoy it.

    i hope The Biden laughs a lot.

    i hope The Biden enjoys it more than The Lioness, last night, in her surgical evisceration of a lesser buboe.

    * Join: OBAMA'S TRUTH TEAM * Addington's Perpwalk: TRAILHEAD of Accountability for Bush-2 Crimes.

    by greenbird on Thu Oct 11, 2012 at 06:15:28 AM PDT

  •  Even If Biden Wins The Debate (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BigOkie, Dave925

    he will make a gaffe that the media will most likely focus on.  They did it with Al Gore's sighs. There he didn't even say anything.

  •  To quote Caribou Barbie: (4+ / 0-)

    How many lies?
    "ALL OF 'EM!"

    Let's go back to E Pluribus Unum

    by hazzcon on Thu Oct 11, 2012 at 06:16:21 AM PDT

  •  Be careful, Joe (8+ / 0-)

    People expect politicians to lie to some degree, but they've never seen a two-headed lie monster like Romney-Ryan. They won't believe it if we point out every one of their falsehoods in real time. They'll think we're lying.

    There's no such thing as a moderate Republican.

    by maksutov66 on Thu Oct 11, 2012 at 06:18:44 AM PDT

  •  Joe has raised boys (4+ / 0-)

    He knows how to call out a lying brat-boy.
    This is going to be ugly TV, but fun!

    What is this I hear of sorrow and weariness, Anger, discontent and drooping hopes... Life is too strong for you-- It takes life to love Life

    by Nebraska68847Dem on Thu Oct 11, 2012 at 06:20:40 AM PDT

  •  In other news... (14+ / 0-)

    I'm meeting President Obama this afternoon!!!!

    It's not easy being a Floridian: PS I'm a lawYER now; no longer a lawSTUDENT.

    by lawstudent922 on Thu Oct 11, 2012 at 06:25:44 AM PDT

  •  I believe Joe Biden (3+ / 0-)

    is going rip Lying Ryan a new asshole. And call him out on all his lies. Because Joe ain't Barack. He's not polite!!!!!

  •  Every time Lyin sez SHTRONG or SHTRENGTH, (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SottoVoce, luckylizard

    DRINK.
    WTF is this shpeech impediment?
    Sounds like a drunk! Let's join him. SHWIG yer SHWILL.

    rMoney: Just another greedy jerk, lookin' for 4 more wars.

    by OleHippieChick on Thu Oct 11, 2012 at 06:32:27 AM PDT

  •  Will They Stress Ideological Differences? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PsychoSavannah, wintergreen8694

    In the debate last week Romney was a born again moderate and we had no red and blue state Obama. Thinking Biden will make the case from the left (if he doesn't excite the base many of us might emigrate before election day) and try to pin down Ryan as a far right loon. Ryan will either stand his ground or try to disavow his positions like Romney did.

  •  What do I expect to see? (10+ / 0-)

    If Ryan shows up and has a pulse, he will be proclaimed the winner by the MSM and the race will be declared over. If Biden destroys Ryan and delivers the best debate performance since Lincoln/Douglas, or Reagan in 1980, that same MSM will declare that Vice Presidential debates don't change anything.

  •  I would love it if Joe Biden took a (3+ / 0-)

    hypothetical family and just laid out the changes that family would face if the Vulture/Voucher plan went into effect....Something like:

    a family of 5, both parents under 55, one working full time, the other part-time.  Gross income was $59,000.  Once they took the few tax deductions they can, their taxable income came down to $30,000.  They currently pay a tax rate of 15%, but their EFFECTIVE rate brought it down to about $1,600.

    If all of the deductions were eliminated, and the tax cut went into effect so they paid about 5%, their tax bill would be $2950.  Thirteen hundred dollars more.  

    Now, because the feds don't have any money due to the income tax cuts across the board, their state taxes will most likely go up.  Putting them further in the hole.

    Add in that the parents in this family will not have Medicare when they get older, and their health insurance premiums are about $14,000 a year now, a voucher for $6,000 will not do much to help them out.  In fact, they'll need to find $8,000 to have health insurance.  AND, since PPACA repeal is Vulture/Voucher's  preferred choice, there is no longer any guarantee they'll even be able to GET insurance.  If they can, they'll be faced with co-pays for preventative medicine again, and a benefits cap.  Don't break a hip or catch a cancer diagnosis!

    This family is screwed.

    (these numbers are so basic and probably not even true.  But, I'm at a point where I'm fighting fire with fire....you wanna lie about 'the numbers"?  I can do it too.  And when people do their own math, they'll see that even if they were to save a few hundred dollars, it is not life-changing in any way....especially not when you consider what will be lost when revenue sinks like a stone.....schools, roads, laws, safe food, water, medicine, etc.)

    David Koch is Longshanks, and Occupy is the real Braveheart.

    by PsychoSavannah on Thu Oct 11, 2012 at 06:41:13 AM PDT

  •  Ryan Isn't His Own Man, Either (11+ / 0-)

    It doesn't matter what Ryan tells us tonight. Neither Romney or Ryan are speaking for themselves. They are simply doing their best to get elected.

    Biden needs to point this out. He should pin Romney and Ryan to the Tea Party, and just hammer on the Tea Party the whole time. In the unlikely event the Republicans get the White House, there is absolutely nothing Romney wants that will come out of it. What will come out of it is what his owners want, which is more right-wing agenda.

    And as for himself, the best thing Biden could do is to say he will not be the 51st vote for taking away any part of Social Security or Medicare. Seniors have earned those payments and it's up to Congress to find a way to make sure they continue to get those payments.

    This is wholly within his power and he can make that pledge. There's nothing that would draw a starker contrast between him and Ryan than that bright red line.

  •  WOW, this guy screams lie using the FACS method (6+ / 0-)

    Especially at the 1:23 marker. The wild expression while looking down to his left, creasing the forehead and the grin at the end.

    Its like every single possible micro tell on steroids with him sometimes

    --Enlighten the people, generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like spirits at the dawn of day. - Thomas Jefferson--

    by idbecrazyif on Thu Oct 11, 2012 at 06:45:43 AM PDT

  •  O'Biden bumaye ! (0+ / 0-)

    sometimes it's more than a fight.
    sometimes it's more than a song.

    * Join: OBAMA'S TRUTH TEAM * Addington's Perpwalk: TRAILHEAD of Accountability for Bush-2 Crimes.

    by greenbird on Thu Oct 11, 2012 at 06:49:58 AM PDT

  •  What do you mean, Might? He will lie, over and (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    history first, GDbot

    over again.  It worked for his boss.  Biden has to call him a LIAR when he lies.  Just say, that's a lie and here's why.

    •  I really doubt that Biden (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      GDbot

      will use the word "liar" tonight. Because even if he's right, he'll be tarred and feathered. Somehow pointing out that someone is a liar has become worse than actually being the liar.

      But he can say "that's simply not the truth" or "Congressman Ryan is simply not being truthful."

      Progressives are defined by who they want to help; Conservatives are defined by who they hate.

      by frsbdg on Thu Oct 11, 2012 at 07:51:27 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Rove tactics (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TheDuckManCometh

        During last week's debate, they turned what I view as one of Obama's major stengths--his ability to stay calm and not over react, into a perceived flaw.  The same calculations are probably planned for tonight.  I assume the Obama team will be well prepared for whatever the repubs have planned.

        It's turtles all the way down

        by mdcalifornia on Thu Oct 11, 2012 at 09:22:02 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Crush, Crush, Crush! (4+ / 0-)

    I want that little snivelling, little punk eviserated! If anyone can do it Joe Biden can. I mean I want a serious ass kicking! You can do it Joe. You know the policy and you know the facts.
    Post debate prediction: Biden will be seen as combative and the winner. Ryan will appear schooled. Yes, the media will concentrate on a gaffe or when Biden has steam coming out of his ears, but this debate will solidify support for democrats and increase support by seniors. What liberals and indies want to see out of Obama/Biden is fighting spirit- that is all! Obama flubbed, but we can be on the road to recovery with a Biden triumph. I await nervously in incredible anticipation.

  •  Lying is less important than we think (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wintergreen8694

    Republicans know their brain science and market research.

    Please take the time to study this and apply it:

    “The Science of Propaganda”
    Great forum with George Lakoff and others.... view or listen online:

    http://www.c-spanarchives.org/...

    The book:
    http://www.powells.com/...

    "What Orwell Didn't Know: Propaganda and the New Face of American Politics"
    Edited by ANDRÁS SZÁNTÓ

    "As Lakoff tells us,

    'A few words in political language can activate large portions of the brain: War on Terror, tax relief, illegal immigration, entitlements (turned to conservative use by Ronald Reagan), death tax, property rights, abortion on demand, cut and run, flip-flop, school choice, intelligent design, spending programs, partial birth abortion, surge, spreading freedom, private accounts, individual responsibility, energy independence.

    When they are repeated every day, extensive areas of the brain are activated over and over, and this leads to brain change. Unerasable brain change…. And every time the words are repeated, all the frames and metaphors and worldview structures are activated again and strengthened -- because recurring activation strengthens neural connections. Negation doesn't help. "I'm against the War on Terror" just activates the War on Terror metaphor and strengthens what you're against. Accepting the language of issue and arguing the other side just hurts your own cause.'

    Drew Westen, a psychology professor and political consultant, supports Lakoff's statements as well as his contention that in America these techniques have been exploited far more intelligently by the political right than by the center and left, which are hampered by what Soros calls "the Enlightenment fallacy" -- that is, the fallacious assumption (dating from the 18th century) that freedom of thought and speech will ensure that reason will prevail. The media and the Democratic leadership, Westen says, are unwittingly "smuggling Trojan horses into popular discourse" by parroting terminology created by those in power, "essentially advertising the 'product line' of the Republican party and selling its 'brand.' "

    From Barnes & Noble book review by Brooke Allen:
    http://www.barnesandnoble.com/...

    George Lakoff, an author and professor of linguistics at the University of California at Berkeley who calls himself a "cognitive activist," says this: "One of the fundamental findings of cognitive science is that people think in terms of frames and metaphors – conceptual structures. The frames are in the synapses of our brains – physically present in the form of neural circuitry. When the facts don't fit the frames, the frames are kept and the facts ignored."
    In other words, forget winning on the facts or the science. It's all about the story. And once stories take hold, they're hard to dislodge. "
    http://www.alternet.org/...

    ----------------------------------
    "It goes against our nature; but the left has to start asserting its own values"
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/...

    SNIPPET:
    . . . . . Common Cause, written by Tom Crompton of the environment group WWF, examines a series of fascinating recent advances in the field of psychology. It offers, I believe, a remedy to the blight that now afflicts every good cause from welfare to climate change.

    Progressives, he shows, have been suckers for a myth of human cognition he labels the enlightenment model. This holds that people make rational decisions by assessing facts. All that has to be done to persuade people is to lay out the data: they will then use it to decide which options best support their interests and desires.

    A host of psychological experiments demonstrate that it doesn't work like this. Instead of performing a rational cost-benefit analysis, we accept information that confirms our identity and values, and reject information that conflicts with them. We mould our thinking around our social identity, protecting it from serious challenge. Confronting people with inconvenient facts is likely only to harden their resistance to change.

    SNIP

    Our social identity is formed by a mixture of values. But psychological tests in nearly 70 countries show that values cluster in remarkably consistent patterns. Those who strongly value financial success, for example, have less empathy, stronger manipulative tendencies, a stronger attraction to hierarchy and inequality, stronger prejudices towards strangers and less concern about human rights and the environment. Those with a strong sense of self-acceptance have more empathy and greater concern for human rights, social justice and the environment. These values suppress each other: the stronger someone's extrinsic aspirations, the weaker his or her intrinsic goals.

    We are not born with our values. They are shaped by the social environment. By changing our perception of what is normal and acceptable, politics alters our minds as much as our circumstances.

    Writing in The New York Times in 1971 and surveying the problem of intolerance and violence worldwide, Dr.[Paul] MacLean found that “language barriers among nations present great obstacles.”

    “But the greatest language barrier,” he concluded, “lies between man and his animal brains; the neural machinery does not exist for intercommunication in verbal terms.”
    Neuroscientist Who Devised ‘Triune Brain’ Theory

    ~
    This Is Your Brain on Metaphors
    By ROBERT SAPOLSKY
    SNIP
    "Jonathan Haidt, of the University of Virginia, has shown how viscera and emotion often drive our decisionmaking, with conscious cognition mopping up afterward, trying to come up with rationalizations for that gut decision. .. . ."
    SNIP
    "Nelson Mandela was wrong when he advised, “Don’t talk to their minds; talk to their hearts.” He meant talk to their insulas and cingulate cortices and all those other confused brain regions, because that confusion could help make for a better world."

    http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/...

  •  Ryan will not only lie (4+ / 0-)

    He will try to make Biden look like a doddering old fool who forgot to take his Ensure and just crapped his pants again.

    And Biden, I hope, will do a good job of making Ryan look like an insincere lying overgrown nasty frat boy sociopath whom he would shoot on sight if he came anywhere near his daughters. As well as refute him on substance.

    Suggested lines for Biden:

    You're going to balance the budget by taking away my Ensure?

    In what world does 2 + 2 =5, Paul? Not on Sesame Street, apparently.

    It's Thursday, on what side of the issues are you today, Mr. Ryan?

    Explain to me where you found the chutzpah to blame the embassy assassinations on decreased security that YOU voted for, Paul?

    Also, advice to Obama: Get Bill Clinton to play Mitt Romney in your debate prep. It will be rattling, but you'll be better off for it. Slick Willie's got his number cold.

    "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

    by kovie on Thu Oct 11, 2012 at 07:31:55 AM PDT

  •  From the pre-debate TV interviews so far (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TheDuckManCometh

    I say that Biden is ready and enthusiastic about tonight and Ryan is nervously worried that he'll make a gaffe.

    Biden looks like the calm of the eye of a hurricane.  Ryan looks like people frantically bracing for the impact before the storm hits.  

    When Ryan commented about "all these softball questions" and then was posed a hardball one, he went in a second from a nervously jovial person to an overly caution one who has been lectured to hide his past views on the budget, abortion, etc..

    Personally, I think Biden will do what Obama failed to do last week and remind people of the accomplishments of the Obama Admin and he'll do it with high praise and enthusiasm.  Biden will blend the positive with jabs at Ryan and Romney's deceitful tactics.

    ...wars are poor chisels for carving out peaceful tomorrows -- Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.

    by PaganVoter on Thu Oct 11, 2012 at 07:39:59 AM PDT

    •  PV, this is classic campaign strategy of lowering (0+ / 0-)
      From the pre-debate TV interviews so far I say that Biden is ready and enthusiastic about tonight and Ryan is nervously worried that he'll make a gaffe.

      Biden looks like the calm of the eye of a hurricane.  Ryan looks like people frantically bracing for the impact before the storm hits.

      expectations.  If Ryan does better than the nervous, nerdy, neophyte debater personna he's putting forth in his interviews - against the seasoned more mature VEEP,and  if he shows up to the podium - it'll be considered a blowout for the MSM by Ryan.

      As for JoeBi, hope you're right.

      Is anybody listenin' ? - by Tori del Allen

      by Dumas EagerSeton on Thu Oct 11, 2012 at 01:40:02 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  If his lips are moving, he's lying! (0+ / 0-)

    If fact, if he's breathing, he's lying.

    What he needs is a wooden stake to go with his Count Ryancula show. Then when he keeps lying, The Biden Grabss his stake and vanquishes him with the stake of truth instead.

  •  Out of all four candidates (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TheDuckManCometh

    I think Biden is the best storyteller.

    Progressives are defined by who they want to help; Conservatives are defined by who they hate.

    by frsbdg on Thu Oct 11, 2012 at 07:54:11 AM PDT

  •  Tonight's hashtags: #lyinryan and #vpdebate (0+ / 0-)

    Let's tweet to both of these hashtags tonight.  

    And let's make #lyinryan trend as the number one hashtag ALL NIGHT tonight!

  •  I am more concerned about next week's debate (0+ / 0-)

    No Vice President debate has ever changed outcome of elections.
    I remember the Quayle and Bentsen debate...it did not help.
    The best thing Biden can do is challenge hard what was not
    Said last week...and don't make some dumb remarks...
    Because that is all that will be remembered even if he is excellent and wins the debate.
    Don't under estimate Ryan....that was the mistake
    Obama did last week with Romney.

    People will be watching tonight for entertainment...
    They have learned to expect the unexpected from Biden...
    He can be obnoxious...I was not impressed with his performances in the debates 4 years ago.
    Again I thought H. Clinton was always the most informed...
    I was a strong Clinton supporter....

    I wait for next week.....much more impt.

  •  The reason Republicans lie so readily (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    earthling1

    lies in their religiosity.  Because the more deeply anyone believes religious myths the more they have to lie to themselves and others to make make the fairy tales seem reasonable.  

  •  Either Ryan admits that he supports his own tax (3+ / 0-)

    bill passed by the House (in which case he can be flattened by facts) or he says he supports Romney's plan and be forced to admit nobody knows what that plan contains.

    I'd tip you but they cut off my tip box. The TSA would put Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad on the no-fly list.

    by OHdog on Thu Oct 11, 2012 at 09:20:59 AM PDT

  •  Might? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TheDuckManCometh
    What to watch for in tonight's debate? How many ways Paul Ryan might lie
    Might?
  •  Telling... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TheDuckManCometh

    I think Ryan's tell (when he's lying) is when he looks directly ahead, tilts his head slightly down, raises his eyebrows and opens his eyes wide.

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