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The stakes can't be underestimated for tonight's debate.

In one disastrous debate, convinceable voters saw what they thought was a decent Rmoney with reasonable ideas, even though Rmoney has no soul and even though his ideas are shit.

These convinceable voters are ready to join the legions of Americans who are blinded by Obama hatred.

My question:  what if Obama loses, as he did last time?  Will the liberal media put journalistic integrity over the good of the country?  In other words, will Chris Matthews call it as he sees it?  Or will he spin it?  We know Fox has already declared Obama the loser, but Fox has no sense of integrity.  What will MSNBC do?

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Poll

If Obama loses, what will MSNBC do?

47%81 votes
26%44 votes
14%25 votes
11%19 votes

| 169 votes | Vote | Results

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Comment Preferences

  •  i did not check any of them because the only (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Statusquomustgo, Pinto Pony

    way i can see it is if romney wins most of the daytime shows up until 3:00 p.m has been rooting for romney and some of them are racist anyway

  •  MSNBC viewers are likely already Obama voters (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Wildthumb

    So it won't matter what they or Fox have to say. Americans will see for themselves, and if they make their decision based on a 90 minute debate or an avalanche of last minute ads, anything can happen.

    •  my problem is (13+ / 0-)

      that everyone has been talking about how obama lost the debate due literally to his demeanor.

      they fucking SPOKE for almost 2 hours.  did anyone hear the fucking words? there was no analysis anywhere on TV, just garbage and as a result he suffered in the polls.  

      i wish CNN wasn't such a terrible network, and actually had the balls to publish some fact checking on the tee vee.  instead of mindlessly repeating meaningless analysis about absolutely fucking nothing.   i get that they want a close race but they're putting the entire country at risk with this fucking bullshit.

      •  you hit that nail on the head!!! (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Bear, Heftysmurf, Sylv, Catte Nappe

        I mean yeah, what ABOUT the speaking for 2 hours business....  Most of what I heard about after the debate was that Obama sometimes looked down while Mitt was talking (thinking? oh my!) instead of staring at his opponent with the "correct" goofy Mona Lisa half smile that honestly just creeps me out.  And MSNBC flipped the fuck out b/c Obama did not give Mitt a ration of shit for his flip flops and lies but, instead, talked about his own ideas thereby showing the contrast between bullshit and ideas.  Well, OK, it didn't work so well because Obama passed up a few chances to deliver some bitchslaps the way I'm SURE he does when negotiating foreign policy, I mean that works SO WELL.  But mostly he lost because people in the entertainment industry said he did, and they said he did because they know Americans want entertainment damnit!! And when gladiators are in the coliseum, we don't want anyone talking about fucking ideas.  We want us an ass-whoopin!  My personal reaction after the debate was, well Mitt didn't look like an idiot (sure, who didn't hope for a few Dan Quayle moments) but OK, the facts will be sorted out quickly and everyone will see him for the total crapshow he is.  I was disgusted with the outrage on MSNBC about Obama not fighting back.  I agree he should have, if merely to satisfy the American bloodlust, but it's the pundits who've given Romney his surge.  What a fucking joke the game of politics is.  

  •  The "Eat Pie" Option is missing from the choices (11+ / 0-)

    Above

  •  A better question might be (9+ / 0-)

    what are you doing to support your team in this election?

    Ancora Impara--Michelangelo

    by aravir on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 06:02:23 AM PDT

  •  Ya (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Pinto Pony, Gordon20024

    Gotta be a foxbot, having a media outlet tell You who win's? or loses?, way to go, showing that adult intelligence with them all ready lost gifts you might have once had!!!

    Vets On FLOTUS and SLOTUS, "Best - Ever": "We haven't had this kind of visibility from the White House—ever." Joyce Raezer - Dec. 30, 2011

    by jimstaro on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 06:03:58 AM PDT

  •  Queue Spinning Vase (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Gordon20024
  •  Like everything, (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jnhobbs, Stude Dude, BasharH

    if he loses it will be the liberals at Daily Kos' fault.

  •  Oh look! Another handwringing diary! (7+ / 0-)

    Abandon your posts! Lay down your arms.

  •  Useless diary. -eom- (5+ / 0-)

    The road to Hell is paved with pragmatism.

    by TheOrchid on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 06:15:26 AM PDT

  •  Matthews will have a stroke (0+ / 0-)

    I expect both to do well so they will probably say Obama did much better but not call it  a slam dunk. unless Romney has one of his weird moments in relating to the audience I expect they both will be prepared.
    As long as Obama is enthused and defends his record and points out Romney's bs it won't really matter who won.
    I am sure a tie will go to Romney with the media anyway.

  •  Tweet baby tweet (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Pinto Pony, Oracle2021

    screw MSNBC Fox and CNN - YOU spin it on twitter - their eyes are going to be glued to your tweets

    A little patience, and we shall see the reign of witches pass over, their spells dissolve, and the people ... restore their government to it's true principles.

    by maddrailin on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 06:20:23 AM PDT

  •  Imagery and Spin (0+ / 0-)

    That's what these debates, and in the end, the election, are all about.  It has been estimated that 70% of Americans are LIVs or NIVs - low information or no information - voters.  Is it any wonder why campaigns spend hundreds of millions of dollars on imagery vs substantive facts? (Think pushing Grandma over the cliff in a wheelchair).

    If the debate is a draw (to rational folks), liberal media outlets will declare Obama the winner. Fox News and a few paper outlets will declare Romney the winner. If there is a clear winner (to rational folks), the spin will be about reasons and damage control for the loser and about reasons and bump size for the winner.

  •  OR WILL BIGFOOT RIDE A UNICORN??? (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BenderRodriguez, citizenx, ubertar, MGross

    Since we're asking random nonsensible questions anyway that serve no purpose.

    (romney)/RYAN 2012 - Look at those clouds. It's beautiful. Just look at those things!

    by Fordmandalay on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 06:21:31 AM PDT

  •  I too am full of concern... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    exreaganite, ubertar, MGross, Oracle2021

    what WILL the "liberal media" do???

    "What is being noticed is only an indication of what is being done." Albert Einstein 1954

    by tundraman on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 06:23:31 AM PDT

  •  actually (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ubertar

    This one is optimistic compared to his Oct 1..
    "We're in trouble"

    Of course such  hi-jinx  as this is a part of my daily read it to laugh therapy...

    ok not spit on the screen laugh..more like a Joe Biden-can-you-believe this-shit laugh..

    If his poll alone doesn't put a smile on yer face..yer a..ah
    ..grouch...

    ashes..ashes..we all fall down..

  •  Well, since Pres O was seen to have lost (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    renzo capetti

    last time out, he will be measured against himself as well as Romney. So if he beats himself and he beats Romney..double good stuff.

  •  I watched the debate on MSNBC (7+ / 0-)

    I like most of the gang on MSNBC, but I found their hyperbolic teeth gnashing after the debate embarrassing.  Chris Mathews needs to quit trying to hit his Aaron Sorkin moment or get on some medication.  What was a somewhat mediocre debate by all parties--sweaty used car salesmanship from Romney, unfocused rote responses from Obama, and ridiculously general questions on a limited range of topics from Lehrer--hardened there and after into a bullshit story of the greatest debate smack down of the modern era.  It's the realpolitik of otherwise legitimate media, where otherwise fact-centered figures told us that people won't care how full of shit Romney was.  What mattered was that Obama didn't interrupt enough and looked down at his note pad while Romney was talking.  Chris Hayes was the only one who had a measured, sane response, and that is all that I would wish.  We don't need our own Fox-style hacks on the left--we need them to be LESS hacky.

  •  If Obama loses, we can breathe a sigh of relief... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Bear, Wildthumb

    There are many concern trolls here who have been without their raison d'etre now that Obama has crept back into the lead and is favored to win the electoral college. I'm sure there will be no end to the glee of the professional teeth gnashers.

  •  I think we all know the answer (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    exreaganite, kingfishstew

    if President Obama loses the debate then MSNBC will immediately cut away to prison documentaries and we will never hear from their punditry crew ever again.

  •  It is my considered opinion (8+ / 0-)

    that the "liberal" commentators - Matthews, Schultz, Sullivan (okay, not really "liberal," but a huge Obama supporter), etc., did more damage to President Obama after the first debate than the President did in his admittedly passive performance.

    I watched the first episode of "Newsroom" a few weeks ago, and in that great opening scene, the "liberal" on the panel was called a "loser." You have all the right ideas, but you always LOSE!

    Watching the post-debate idiocy, I was reminded of that.

    I watched the debate and thought Obama should be hitting back harder, that he was playing it a bit too safe...bored to tears after about 15 minutes, I went to the Live Blogging  (Sullivan), while my wife went to some guy who is on Fox (an Alan Colmes-type liberal, don't remember his name).

    Not only was I convinced I was watching a different debate than Sullivan, it's obvious the guy from Fox, who was being fairly balanced, honestly, in scoring a near-tie, was watching a different debate.

    Sullivan had a huge dog in the fight - he had just put out a massive Newsweek cover story calling Obama the "Democrats' Reagan." He was hyperventilating like a man who had too much egg on his face, honestly.

    The same was true post-debate, where the alpha males - Schultz and Matthews in particular - went, well, insane.

    I've seen this sad song before. During the last few months of the healthcare debate, Ed Schultz had his hair on fire, screaming that "reform without a public option was no reform at all!!!!!!!!!!" (direct quote, even with the exclamation points).

    His ranting did a lot for Scott Brown in Massachusetts' special election. I saw it around me first-hand.

    I remember the night of the election, when Schultz was practically in tears, begging Mass to defeat Brown and save PPACA.

    Same principle at play here. The polls have moved for Romney because his base is energized and the President's base is a bit demoralized at this point...and I think the screaming folks at MSNBC played a big part in that. You would NEVER see the Fox crew in a similar bit of apoplexy. Reverse the debate performances 100% and all you would have heard on Fox was screaming against Obama's "lies."

    That's why they win far more often than they should with their plutocratic ideas and Randian ideals. Edith Effron laid out the blueprint for this in the 1960's, and David Brock has exposed it and written about it extensively in the last decade.

    In my estimation, that debate was not nearly the landslide that it became (via polling), with no small amount of help from the "good" guys.

    •  I agree Liveral Histrionics Hurt President Obama (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Catte Nappe

      Instead of focusing on Romney's lies, they focused on the Presidents' demeanor and the fact he didn't follow their talking points.

      On the other hand, the Republicans and their media friends decided ahead of time how they are going to spin the debate.  Even if their guy loses they find some way to ensure its not a total loss, e.g., Ryan's debate with Biden. Biden clearly won but the conservative punditry attempted to mitigate the impact by basically Al Goring Biden.

      I hope this time that Chris and Ed contain themselves.  I hope we as progressives contain ourselves.  We should be more focused on winning the Election...not the debate. Let's not damage our candidate with a bunch of negative comments after the debate so that's all the media focuses on afterwards.  Let's not kill the momentum of our candidate before voters get to the polls.   Try to find the win in the debate. The debate is just gravy after all...The Election is the steak and potatoes.

      Oracle2021: Reality according to Mitt Romney "Why tell the truth when a lie will suffice...the bigger the lie the bigger the pay off"

      by Oracle2021 on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 07:45:12 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  When you have (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Oracle2021

        two viewpoints as diametrically opposed as those espoused by Romney and Obama, the idea that a debate should make a whiff of difference is, in and of itself, enough to make me think that this whole experiment called America is in serious trouble.

        Undecideds? In THIS election? /facepalm

        •  I agree with you (0+ / 0-)

          But the media messaging or propaganda truly influences people.  Folks will fall for a big lie told with partial truths rather than the truth told with charts and figures. They will also concur with negative criticism coming from supporters of any candidate.  If Liberals do not like their candidate, why should they like the candidate.  That's why Reagan always said that Republicans should never speak disparagingly of other Republicans.  Thats why the GOP supports the vilest of candidates...Akin.  That's why folks like Rush Limbaugh have totally captured the GOP and the south.  

          The GOP focuses on the win by any means even if it destroys this country.  The Dems focuses on process, logic, and fairness more.  This is noble and we should still focus on those things.  However to achieve our long term goals we need to focus on the outcome rather than output. We need to support our candidate win or lose the debate.

          I believe Liberals/Progressives need to look at winning the war...not just the battle.  

          Oracle2021: Reality according to Mitt Romney "Why tell the truth when a lie will suffice...the bigger the lie the bigger the pay off"

          by Oracle2021 on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:35:16 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Exactly. We all know them and they're even (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Catte Nappe, avsp

      cliches at this point: The circular firing squad. We eat our
      own.
      These memes are real. We do do this. The right wins far more often than they should because of their solidarity.

      If any party or group should emphasize solidarity, it's ours.
      We invented it, for chrissakes.

      Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more. Shakespeare, Henry V

      by Wildthumb on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:39:23 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  WHAT IF RACHEL MADDOW STRANGLES A HOBO?? (7+ / 0-)

    Live on air???

    Hey, it could happen.

    (romney)/RYAN 2012 - Look at those clouds. It's beautiful. Just look at those things!

    by Fordmandalay on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 06:40:48 AM PDT

  •  i disagree with your premise (5+ / 0-)

    you're asking if MSNBC will fake pretend that obama did better if he "loses" tonight.  the problem with obama "losing" the last time was that nobody analyzed a fucking word Romney said, or clearly they would have spent the last week calling him a liar instead of a winner.

    lying should make you lose the debate post-week reporting.  it didn't.  MSNBC should just call out fucking lies when they see them--no need to spin--my my count, where reality matters, obama won the first debate. the media is to blame in not pointing out the problem.

    •  MSNBC helped (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kingfishstew

      they helped the ROMNEY WINS narrative quite a bit by focusing almost exclusively on stagecraft and ignoring nearly everything that was said.  

      To me, the whole premise of this diary (if it could be said to have one) is soooo stupid because it plays the lie that MSNBC is to Democrats what Fox is to Republicans.  

      When truth is only a matter of opinion, advantage goes to the liars.

      by Sun dog on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 07:00:46 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The only person who attacked Romney's (0+ / 0-)

      lies was Al Sharpton. Everybody else laid into Obama.

      Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more. Shakespeare, Henry V

      by Wildthumb on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 08:40:24 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Is this a PRE-Concern diary. (6+ / 0-)

    Please.

    Follow Me on Twitter @SmartyFeldman

    by The Swimmer on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 06:42:34 AM PDT

  •  town holler should ask which Rx Romney takes (0+ / 0-)

    Prior to debates and will he submit to a medical workup, psych eval and toxicology drug screen.

    Chris Matthews not running for senate, remains fluff infotain.

    msnbc not running either. cable channel permits some shows to broadcast some info and analysis. gossip is not votes. fanzine time not for 3 more campaign weeks.

    Job Crater Republicans Made Our Lives Miserable. Drop Them.

    by renzo capetti on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 06:42:38 AM PDT

  •  Would it help (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    avsp

    if I start clutching my pearls?

    No one ever died from laughing too often

    by googie on Tue Oct 16, 2012 at 07:05:08 AM PDT

  •  When there is concern, CAFO is there to help. (0+ / 0-)

    Concerned Americans for Obama ActBlue Page

    Please Donate. It is one of the most effective ways to relieve concern (volunteering may be even better).

    CAFO is not associated with Concentrated Animal Feeding Operations.

  •  Obama gave a listless but serious debate (0+ / 0-)

    with zero gaffes and a big chunk of the partisan liberal press acted like they had to go back to ancient Greece to find a worst debate perfromance. To engage in that type of hyperbole and hubris in the debate analysis would be unexpected even for so called "unbiased" journalists, to get that from the pastisan press about their so-called own guy has to be unprecedented. Even Fox didn't take it to that level on Obama. Meanwhile Biden goes out there and does over the top performance art that was squarely aimed at the Ed Schultz's of the world and the pundits at MSNBC had to give that shit-eating grin and pretend it was awesome.

     At least though that implies they know what a tremendous amount of damage they did by helping frame the media narrative from "Obama gives listless, sober performance in debate loss" to, "forget what you've learned the past year or four, Obama's peformance was so bad maybe he doesn't want to be President, give Romney a second look".

    The biggest irony in all this as the diary infers is that in the process of trying to be unbiased when that's not their job and never was, a big chunk of the left leaning press actually damaged their own crediblity moving forward. Now it's not gonna be what the libs at MSNBC say about this debate, but why.

    That's what hubris does though, it gets others to question your motives.

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