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It's a sad day for Richard Carmona. Politico, Politicalwire, the ArizonaRepublic, and Buzzfeed have reported on this today

The video is now up on youtube

I already voted for him but this is extremely disappointing. The media here in AZ has been talking about this and I assume to see it on the local news tonight.

Jeff Flake has already been capitalizing on Richard Carmona's supposed women problem with this ad:

Carmona followed up with this:

Carmona apologized for his remarks, "I tried to tell a joke to lighten the mood in a debate. I shouldn't have, and I'm sorry,” Carmona, the Democratic nominee, said in a brief statement to POLITICO.

For any non-AZ Kossacks you may not have heard of Carmona but he can be described as an Independent. He may not be as liberal as we want him to be but he will be a reliable vote in the Senate.

Here are some videos explaining his biography and views.

The most recent polling by Yougov has Flake winning 44-38. But we have also seen Carmona lead in two polls:
Behavior Research Center    10/4 - 10/10    LV    40    44    Carmona +4
PPP (D)                            10/1 - 10/3        LV    43    45     Carmona +2

Please Donate if you can!

Originally posted to YoungArizonaLiberal on Fri Oct 19, 2012 at 12:10 PM PDT.

Also republished by Baja Arizona Kossacks.

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Comment Preferences

  •  He's Done Now (n/t) (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Hanging Up My Tusks
    •  No he's not. Bad timing sure but not over yet. (8+ / 0-)
    •  It all seemed pretty lighthearted... (11+ / 0-)

      and we are missing the context.  Hopefuly not too much damage as we need and can take this seat away from the Pubs.

      The more you learn the less you know.

      by quiet in NC on Fri Oct 19, 2012 at 12:15:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Watching it, (2+ / 0-)

        the tone certainly seems to be lighthearted and friendly rather than biting. I'd have to see what came before this to make a confident assessment. It is an unforced error and a poor choice of a quip to be sure, though not nearly as offensive as what Scott Brown said the other day.

        "Nach dem Spiel ist vor dem Spiel." -Sepp Herberger

        by surfbird007 on Fri Oct 19, 2012 at 01:07:28 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I wouldn't go that far, but (3+ / 0-)

      the main problem is that it reinforces the claim that he has issues with women.  I totally dismissed it originally, but I'm not sure you blurt out stupid things like that without some built-in predilection.

    •  Yep, my exact thoughts when I saw this news. (0+ / 0-)

      Bad enough to have thoughts like this, but to voice them?

      Obamacare covers Romnesia

      by Hanging Up My Tusks on Fri Oct 19, 2012 at 12:58:39 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I don't think he is. It was a mistake that he (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      quickly remedied but this doesn't make him look good in light of the accusations.

      Romney = Nixon without the sweating problem

      by YoungArizonaLiberal on Fri Oct 19, 2012 at 01:13:53 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Dude (0+ / 0-)

        It's hard to take this diary from you seriously. When you had a recent diary

        "all the other Mitt Romneys are masturbating"
        You seem like someone who would be pretty thick skinned in the language area...

        "We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics" - F.D.R.

        by biscobosco on Fri Oct 19, 2012 at 03:47:12 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  That isn't a recent diary but thanks for your (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          contributions...No one else diaried this so I did. What are you doing other than walking in someone's diary and taking a shit?

          Romney = Nixon without the sweating problem

          by YoungArizonaLiberal on Fri Oct 19, 2012 at 06:56:54 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Now, now ... (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Larsstephens, Desert Rose

            some civility please. This is why you gotta' come to a meet-up. I've met biscobosco, if you had too, you'd be more understanding of each other.

            The GOP ... Government of the 1%, by the 1%, for the 1%

            by Azazello on Fri Oct 19, 2012 at 07:25:06 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  This is why I'm nervous/scared about going... (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Azazello, tytalus

              everytime I write a diary, this stuff happens. It's different when it's someone who lives in Tucson and I may meet them compared to someone on the other side of the country who pisses me off. I didn't say anything derogatory about Carmona in this diary did I? I have stated time and time again that I will vote for him haven't I? I'm just sick of this.

              Romney = Nixon without the sweating problem

              by YoungArizonaLiberal on Fri Oct 19, 2012 at 07:53:08 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Just settle down. (3+ / 0-)

                Sometimes it seems like you've got a hair trigger. You kids, I swear. Come on down to the next time we meet and you'll see. It's good to put a face, and a real person, with the DKos username. We're all on the same side, after all.

                P.S. - This only got to the BAK page because I published it. You could have published it too. Once you've put a diary in the queue, just go ahead and publish it.

                The GOP ... Government of the 1%, by the 1%, for the 1%

                by Azazello on Fri Oct 19, 2012 at 08:00:46 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  because I like Carmona (0+ / 0-)

            and your diary comes off as "concern trolling"

            If you are a supporter, then this is not particularly the time to be having asphyxia about  a faux pas.

            Its time to be donating, doing GOTV and phonebanking.

            "We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics" - F.D.R.

            by biscobosco on Sun Oct 21, 2012 at 09:32:02 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  Sorry, I just don't see it (0+ / 0-)

          Candy Crowley is a public figure, and truth be told, she is somewhat overweight and physically unattractive.  Which really means nothing.  Most people would not consider Carmona to be exceedingly handsome.  Jeff Flake is certainly better looking in the hair department, but that won't be the basis of my vote.  

           But it's really not unusual for people to make such jokes about the physical appearances of public figures.  There have been jokes about the unattractiveness of Linda Tripp, Ruth Bader-Ginsberg, Madeline Albright, Roseanne Barr...the list goes on and on.  And there have also been jokes about what a fat-ass Rush Limbaugh is.  And Chris Christie.  And jokes about what a fat-ass Mike Huckabee used to be.  And about the fact that Dennis Kucinich looks like a Hobbit.  And I wouldn't be surprised to hear jokes about the fact that Carmona is bald.  So these jokes can be made about both men and women.  It's not necessarily sexist if the joke is about a woman.

           However, it's really not an appropriate joke to be made in a political debate.  Which is why Carmona apologized for his off-the-cuff remark.  That should be enough.  I would liken it to Obama's joke on the Jay Leno show about how his bowling score would qualify him for the Special Olympics.  Another off-the-cuff comment which was insensitive to those who are physically and mentally challenged.  Obama apologized almost immediately, and that was enough.  Anyone can make a stupid joke at the wrong time.  I really don't think that even if some women voters are offended by Carmona's remark, that those women would be so stupid as to decide that one bad joke outweighs Jeff Flake's very real record as a relentless warrior against women's rights.  

           Your clip zooms in on the moderator after Carmona makes the joke.  I'd be interested to know if there is alternative angle footage available that includes Flake in the frame.  It sounded to me like Flake was laughing at the joke along with everyone else.  It would really limit Flake's ability to use this supposedly sexist joke as a weapon if he has to also explain why he was laughing at it.

            Regarding your inclusion of the Cristina Beato ad, it would have been nice if you had included some context.  This diary does a very good job of taking apart that ad:  100% False

           The ad is comical in its intentional vagueness.  "Issues" with anger?  "Issues" with women?  What does that even mean?  He knocked on the door too loudly?  That's the WORST thing you can come up with?  Next you'll tell me that he's one of those horrible men who always leaves the seat up.  The fact that Flake would run such a deliberately misleading and baseless attack ad proves that he's feeling desperate about the possibility of losing.  

           The truth is, until Flake resorted to such gutter politics to win, I actually had some respect for him.  I disagreed with him politically, but in terms of his personality he seemed like a kind man who treated his colleagues with respect and expressed his conservative viewpoint with civility.  His stand on earmarks made him seem less hypocritical and more principled than many other Republicans.  I actually thought that if Kyl's seat MUST go to another Republican, I'd rather it be Flake than his primary opponent or a number of worse alternatives.  

           Now any illusions I might have had that like Goldwater, Flake could be a Republican Senator I could respect despite disagreement have completely evaporated.  I now see him as just another dirty politician who will wallow in the mud as much as he needs to in order to win.  I wouldn't be surprised if Flake's dirty campaign tactics cause other voters to see him the same way.

  •  I've been writing a lot about this race and Markos (6+ / 0-)

    himself has taken notice of this race and is pretty optimistic.  Also David Nir reported about this this morning and said that though it's horribly timed it's nothing that will change voters minds.

  •  This moron just blew his chances. Another (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Chitown Kev, Dr Swig Mcjigger

    One who does not know when to zip it in public.

  •  Jeesuz, what a stupid comment. (4+ / 0-)

    What was he (not) thinking.

  •  better apology than almost all publican apologies (10+ / 0-)
    “I tried to tell a joke to lighten the mood in a debate,” Carmona said in a statement. “I shouldn’t have, and I’m sorry.”

    Still a damn fool thing to say.  What the hell was he thinking?

    A learning experience is one of those things that says, 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.' Douglas Adams

    by dougymi on Fri Oct 19, 2012 at 12:24:57 PM PDT

  •  Idiotic (0+ / 0-)

    Probably blew the election right there.

    •  This is what I hate about Democrats (9+ / 0-)

      they get a case of the sniffles and all of a suddn they're dying of a combination of Ebola, bubonic plague, and rabies.

      "Valerie, why am I getting all these emails calling me a classless boor?"

      by TLS66 on Fri Oct 19, 2012 at 12:42:17 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  What I hate worse (0+ / 0-)

        is Democrats who say idiotic things that offend our very base.

      •  Project much? (0+ / 0-)

        You've taken one comment by an anonymous poster

        Idiotic. Probably blew the election right there.
        and (with zero evidence that the commenter is a Democrat) exaggerated it into
        This is what I hate about Democrats they get a case of the sniffles and all of a suddn they're dying of a combination of Ebola, bubonic plague, and rabies.
        Your 'hate' appears to be a case of self-hatred. Furthermore, a person who can't tell the difference between a sarcastic snort as a comment and a comment that wails 'the sky is falling!' probably is incapable of the former and addicted to the latter.

        Enough fossil fuel remains on Earth to warm it 6 degrees C by 2100 AD if it is all used. A +6 C planet will only sustain half a billion humans. Human population will rise to 9 billion by 2050. Any questions?

        by davidincleveland on Fri Oct 19, 2012 at 01:05:03 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Republicans circle their wagons (13+ / 0-)

    Democrats engage in a circular firing squad.

    Way to go, folks!

  •  He should apologize, total jerk comment (3+ / 0-)

    I watched TDS for the first time in awhile last night (Obama was on) and was blown away by all the MSM segments about whether women would be "turned on" or "turned off" by the debate.  

    The sexism is just noxious.  But just b/c the MSM does it that doesn't mean its OK for our candidates to follow suit.  

  •  Have no idea if this will... (5+ / 0-)

    lose the election for him, but it certainly was a needlessly stupid thing for him to say.  If I were living in AZ, I'd still vote for him over Flake.  No doubt about it.

  •  If Flake (or any other Republican) had... (5+ / 0-)

    ...said this, we would've been all over it.

    It was an unbelievably stupid and hurtful thing to say. He owes Candy Crowley a personal apology.

    I've never liked Crowley, but she did do an excellent job at the debate, deserves kudos for it and instead is taking all sorts of shit from the GOP over it. Now this? From one of our guys?

    I've donated to Carmona and lord knows he'd still be a hell of a lot better than Flake, but this was a self-inflicted wound and he needs to issue a true, heart-felt apology directly to the woman in question.

  •  I saw that comment on TPM (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    And my heart sank.

    What a jerk this Carmona guy is. He talks rather too fast, kinda like Rmoney, a motor mouth.

    A blue dog for sure, but I wish he would talk less sh!t. He does not support the ACA and would like more private health insurance choices market driven change blah blah lah.
    Still I hope he wins - he is way than the tee partiers.

  •  AAARGGHHH!!!! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dougymi, YoungArizonaLiberal

    My son in law's family in Tucson have been working like crazy to elect Carmona, for over a year. His mom is such a strong feminist. I'm sure she'll be totally dismayed by this. Hope it doesn't wreck his chances - it's not just stupid,  but reveals a  meanspiritedness that I generally associate only with Republicans.

    •  Okay, thinking about comment... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      biscobosco, Larsstephens

      What! Men can't be prettier than women....

      To be feminists, you sure hold on to a number stereotypical gender expectations.

      Even Hillary admits women should stop complaining about trivial things...this is not the most important because he did not demean her intellect or character.

      Some may not think this is trivial, but I believe it is. I thought feminism was about a women being capable and equal to men, not holding on bregrudgingly to stereotypes.

      So, what if the guy is prettier than the woman (especially in the age of the metrosexual)? It only means that women are being integrated more equally in the societal norms of power sharing.

       What! Some feminist didn't think they would trade off some social etiquette for more power. Whining about some so superficial is trivial at best.

      It's time for any whining feminsts to GROW UP and BE ADULTS; it's about the power and influence and being respected as co-leaders in society not necessarily the looks. It costs to be the boss.  

      •  Insult to Candy Crowley (0+ / 0-)

        She is widely considered to be an overweight, unattractive woman. Therefore it was a nasty, misogynist comment.

        Thanks for the rant, but you entirely missed the point.

        •  beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          If someone would have said another was an ugly man, then it wouldn't have caused such a backlash.

          No, thanks the response, but my point is about the hypocritical stereotypical gender expectations....

          It shouldn't matter how Candy Crrowley since she's not supposed be known necessarily for her looks. She looks like an average person to me.

          So, Hrubec, I think you missed the point. I know it's totally political the reason you're lambasting Carmona's remarks, but it's hypocritcal for feminists to scream outrage if they want to be accepted as equals in society.

          So, your point is taken, but still noted as hypocrisy if not done from a political perspectives (because feminists can be hypocritical as well and we want their votes, not their disdain). I understand that position, but anything else is still bigotry.

          •  The only reason I'm angry about the comment (0+ / 0-)

            Is I definitely want Carbona to win! Geez, you anti-feminist nuts have one track minds.

            My beloved son in law, and his fine parents, have been supporting Carbona - on the ground, door to door - for over a year. The thought of getting a Dem Senator in AZ is Quixotic. I still hope for it, of course.

            But this was a nasty, insensitive, STUPID thing to say. Spare me your bitterness against women and feminism, but it is indeed an insult to a woman like Candy Crowley - who has managed the truly Herculean task of forging a career in a profession where 95% of the rest of the women are drop dead gorgeous, by design (as in, being drop dead gorgeous is their primary talent).

            You're right she looks like an average person in the real world - and this kind of insult and contempt is something women in the real world experience all the time. So yes, like it or not, it WILL affect their votes and he is probably kicking himself in the ass right now for doing it.

            •  Hrubec....did you actually read what I said... (0+ / 0-)

              in my initial response.

              My entire focus was on intellect, work ethic, and character (not looks). How did you come up with an insulting pejorative as anti-feminists nuts?

              No, I'm anti-hypocritical. As I said earlier, I can understand your position from a purely political viewpoint (because people have bigoted values). Yes, that would include feminists who hold on to stereotypical gender expectations (like the woman should be prettier than the man).

              Once you are considered equals you shouldn't whine about a man thinking another man is prettier than a woman.

              Yeah, I think it was stupid (for political purposes). It was even nasty and insensitive. The question is if he had said that to a man wouldn't that have been the same.

              My point is he should not have said that to anyone in public  (and depending on how it's said) or in private.

              If man or woman called me ugly, I wouldn't worry about it at first (yeah, it would be interpreted negatively if it's said with an intent to offend), but I guess I would get over it.  By the way, I'm not an anti-feminist; I just want people like you to fully know what that means (i.e., embracing full equality with men). Some women don't want to be considered pretty, so you can be anti-feminist by expecting such demeanor.  Candy got their on HARD WORK, SMARTS, and CHARACTER (not necessarily looks). So, why be offended if that's the case?

              But let's face it, Hrubec, all of us have a limit of what we will look at on television (Candy Crowley is an average looking person and she's much better than Linda Tripp before surgery). Heck, a judge called me ugly when I was a teenager with acne while I was attending a pre-adoption hearing. Of course, I didn't need him to call me pretty or handsome, but I could have done without the put down.  I guess my experience (as a impoverished, black male) was tough in many aspects, making me have a more grittier view in life.

              But I see your point and I agree mostly on the politics and not being sensitive to another's behavior (regardless if it was man or a woman).  Point taken/noted.  Again, I have no reason to be anti-feminist because I've been raised by many strong black women and have encouraged all of my sisters to go to college and thrive (all four have).

              In short, I agree with your point that it was stupid, nasty (in an underhanded way), and insensitive (definitely for needlessly putting down another). So, I agree with you on that, but there are still hypocritical gender expectations in the so called outrage of Carmona's remarks.

    •  Carmona is an Independent (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Azazello, Larsstephens

      I'm in Tucson and will still work like hell for him.

      He has not been a career politician. He is not so practiced. It's an edgy joke, which really does not offend me.

       I have had two friends who worked closely with him for many years. (I briefly met him myself). He is a good guy.

      "We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics" - F.D.R.

      by biscobosco on Fri Oct 19, 2012 at 03:41:16 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  If there's any "damage" from this (3+ / 0-)

    I'd say Carmona seemed like a gay closet case if you include the gesture. I'm not getting the "sexist" part at all? If he loses, I seriously doubt this one episode will be a huge factor.

    As for the diarist's point, Kosfolks seem very pessimistic on AZ in general.

  •  Here's the problem (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    YoungArizonaLiberal, Brainwrap

        His margin of error was VERY thin... so he was in the range where one stupid comment COULD swing the election.

        If you're a Democrat, you can't afford stupid moments like this.  Contrast Eliot Spitzer with Mark Sanford. Dems have to be Ward Cleaver.

        Why our candidates don't internalize this reality, I'll never understand.

    "Le ciel est bleu, l'enfer est rouge."

    by Buzzer on Fri Oct 19, 2012 at 01:18:20 PM PDT

  •  oh, ouch.. (6+ / 0-)

    but not ouch enough to make me even consider Flake for one nanosecond.
    BTW that Flake add is creepy..they have been playing a LOT on networks..
    when you break it down though  there's no substance, just a deep dark creepy vibe to it..i think the vagueness and the 'noir' quality of the production makes it kind of suspect.. in the 'i'm not a witch' genre...
    Flake is running at least one other add featuring a woman vet.also at close range...i turned it off when the first sentence came out of her mouth..same dire undertones.

    carmona or the Dem senatorial campaign is running a  respnse spot with a woman who has worked with Carmona and has positive things to say

    this damn election can get here soon enough

    i voted carmona

  •  Live blogging..... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I've seen this complaint before (whether it was this race or someone else's)

    I sure wish Kos would stop ignoring the AZ-Senate would think that the only race that is going on is in Massachusetts. Let's see some live blogging of the debates that go on outside of the East Coast.
    Why don't YOU do the honors. Maybe if there's enough of a following in your live blog diary, the next debate might get front page attention.

    Elizabeth Warren was well known to Kossacks before her run so it's understandable that her race in a blue state for a seat formerly held by Ted Kennedy would get tons of attention.

    "Someone just turned the lights on in the bar and the sexiest state doesn't look so pretty anymore" CA Treasurer Bill Lockyer on Texas budget mess

    by CaliSista on Fri Oct 19, 2012 at 02:32:17 PM PDT

    •  Do you see how many comments/recs (0+ / 0-)

      for diaries in the Baja AZ Kossacks group get? I can live blog every single Senate Debate that doesn't mean that it will get on the community spotlight or rec list. Most likely, (as this diary will) it will fall off the recent diaries list to make room for the popular diarist or pootie diaries. The fact that the Senate race in MA is in contention just shows how messed up this country is/ and/or the strategy of the previous Dem candidates' campaign.

      Romney = Nixon without the sweating problem

      by YoungArizonaLiberal on Fri Oct 19, 2012 at 03:15:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  ACTION! How to help Carmona win (3+ / 0-)

    Brahm Resnik is a 'dreamboat' in the looks department.

    Candy Crowley's career never depended on her looks; she's known for her news work and writing.

    What counts most is Carmona's track record and policies on women's rights.

    Let them know what POSITIVE things Carmona will bring like fact-based science and health......Contrast him with the Republicans for what they'll take away and get wrong:

    Tell the media that you care more about his policies than his silly attempts at a joke.

    I think the word ACTION appears as part of Daily Kos's standard front page?
    LTE. Media Activism Kit:

  •  Remember John McCain's joke? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tytalus, YoungArizonaLiberal

    "Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly? Because Janet Reno is her father!" chuckle, chuckle, laugh, laugh

    The joke was made in private but got out & was reported, and McCain had to call Bill & Hillary to apologize. Now THAT is mean spirited & sexist. What Carmona said is wrong and stupid, but clearly an off the cuff remark in an attempt to continue a light hearted moment, a rarity in debates this year.  

    David Koch, a teacher and a Tea Partier sit down a table with a plate of a dozen cookies. Koch quickly stuffs 11 cookies in his pockets, leans to the bagger and says "watch out, the union thug will try to steal your cookie".

    by Dave in AZ on Sat Oct 20, 2012 at 07:12:17 AM PDT

    •  Agree, Dr Carmona is an extremely nice guy (0+ / 0-)

      It was an ill timed remark which he quickly apologized for. Stupid AZ media is going bonkers over this joke though...sigh The fix is in to give Flake an opening; he absolutely disgusts me.

      Romney = Nixon without the sweating problem

      by YoungArizonaLiberal on Sat Oct 20, 2012 at 12:03:56 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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