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If people don't realize this is THE civil rights clash of our time, it is a shame. My friends I do not know that voted for Obama, it must be imossible to see how politically inexpedient it is (repealing DADT was great). But, I cannot imagine being you. Being told, wait. So I hope anything I can offer now, ideas, or advice so that i may re-offer may help. It is not just a political issue I suppose to put on Obama. It seems to me to be a public perception problem until the ultimate goal (a SCOTUS ruling, or Constitutional Amendment- which you'd need 2/3 states so need it to be normal for them). I'm sure the work started long ago, but in this political world, this subject, it seems you need to be creative, and loud, not burn bridges, build them. Not accept less, but in the background be prudent.

I thought about this last night in considering the victories of ballot measures; that it's great more states added.

But, it's still not fair. Maybe I went to NYU so am just used to the Village, but not Gay, but my perception is my generation sees this as a non-issue. That we will look back and wonder why we didn't do more.

NOTE: I deeply apologize if any idea offends. I am not at all comparing heinous acts with loving relationships. I am looking at from a cynical bigot's point of view (below). Nor am I saying settle for marrying a Lesbian couple and adult adopt (I am just thinking of how I would get around SOME things).

 new to pressing rights. I am excited though for you. Everything I write is either just me thinking allowed, how as a lawyer I'd try to get around to extent I can in states that don't allow, or if it were me, ideally how I'd find ways if it were me. And how I think knowing bigoted people, they think. Such that being the group that promotes sex for LOVE in whatever way is good universally. As is condemning the prison problems.  

Also: As an attorney I can only give advice in OH. We had Rove's ban. So I don't know much, other than I want to be on the right side of history, and actually help. Even if everything I offer/say is fruitless, let me know how I can, but not I cannot give advice outside of Ohio and anything I say is not legal advice. Nor can I really say this form will work in TX or wherever, I have no idea. But I have so many, I am happy to give "samples" of wills, trusts, other docs, ebooks about topics. Even if they are "band-aids" until you get through this bigotry.

Really I only meant to provide forms, but hey, sometimes if I have 10 ideas 1 is good. Maybe I got 1? I imagine you're lightyears ahead, but if you ever need help let me know. I offer my services as a Human being.

I don't want to explain to my kids why I didn't follow me as I have some offers . . .

I don't know how. I am not that involved. But I don't want to be on the sideline. I don't think it can simply go state-by-state.

We cannot wait for 20yrs. African Americans had to take what had been owed them even longer.

First- as an Attorney I think about, how can you insure (some benefits) w/o marriage in states you cannot get. I would assume most do some estate planning.

But, what I would wonder, maybe already done, is adult adoption. Not something I know much anything about. Just remember reading cases for Property law of people solving problems of passing on property, care, via Adult Adoption. I don't know if that would violate other laws to your "adopted" partner. But I would throw that out there, as any state then would have to recognize you are the heir, you probably would then have rights in say etc. medically. Idk but if anyone does and I can help I'd be happy to.

I also wonder if considered hard enough, anything like an LLC, a Limited Partnership ('key man insurance'), the organizations we have today, can be manipulated to accomplish gaining some of the same rights that are a consequence of marriage. In fact I have little doubt of it. Starting an LLC, running it, putting assets in, splittting shares, takes care of a lot. That is as-is creative thinking can get you further, and  am thinking.

I do know a lot in Ohio about and have a lot of Powers of Attorney, wills, trusts etc. I realize these only solve part of the problem. But I assume prudence can overwhelm. I'd be happy to share a template with anyone and if anyone knew of Adult Adoption at all, I'd be happy to help.

More important are I am sure advocacy groups/organizing. I would be happy to provide any forms to anyone who (I can't say I can do or advise as I I am licensed in OH) wanted to start a non-profit, for-profit, etc. They couldn't be legal advice, and for anything not in Ohio, even here I'd advise going to an attorney.  But I have started non-profits before. It is all forms.

I imagine one of the biggest things (I have to guess and by offering suggestions etc I realize the movement is likely lightyears ahead of me) is enthusiasm and awareness.

We all seem to know that the Majority of the Country, and a super majority favor. We know it is a big issue.

I think back to Civil Rights, and I think of marches, events. I can think of similar pictures as people joyfully were married at the same time.

But to me as someone on the outside I see that creating a gap (and if the ultimate goal is a Constitutional Amendment, you need the South even). I would imagine that necessitates starting to talk, and not stopping. Being seen everywhere.

For example, I learned at some point, that Attorneys can be issued the power by a judge to Marry someone for 1 day. I wonder from a PR standpoint off of the top of my head how something like this Valentines day. In EVERY state, find a sympathetic judge, mayor, (somehow an attorney can be allowed for the day) in every state, so it isn't a East Coast, elitist issue against the bible (I imagine the South thinks). (I'd also imagine it interesting for someone to really study the portions of the bible left out- as basically one guy determined from hundreds of scriptures went in, for Constantine? how the bible may have turned out, as it is rather arbitrary, the biggest ommission I remember is the Gospel of __, that implied that Mary M was given such lofty status that they it was so pro-woman they couldn't put in, so they just left out).

It'd be powerful not just to see in the new states legalizing and hundreds/thousands married. But "illegally" by people who are sympathetic and if there's heat in the Georgia's of the world the Judge is willing to go to bat. Some 50 state million marriage-a-thon.

I'd also think (again outsider) that beyond products being pressured, donate during unofficial Civil Rights Month?, that the most Vocal Activists take a clear stand on prison Rape. I see the irony a bigot would be confused over. It is a known and huge problem. A civil rights issue now as well. Where is the Church? Imagine Gay Activists most vocally helping clean up the prison system. Gay activists not just arguing for the institution of marriage protecting the sanctity of sex for love, compassion for even those that society turns its back on. Not just for that, but to create a perception rift. (I don't personally see, maybe someone else would, the downside of being in a spot to advocate for calling Rape, Rape and cruel and unusual backing it with whether behind bars are not sex should come not just from Consent to Love. As I suppose Sex is the biggest hangup to those not confident enough themselves to imagine (as axiom it's synonymous with marriage).

That might sound odd. But, it is a huge problem to begin with. There are a lot of groups who are all over it to support/join. What's it have to do with gay marriage? NOTHING. Why I bring up. If the message is clear that the Gay Community, everyone is calling "Gay" sex RAPE and saying this is unacceptable, sex w/o love etc. I just think it dispels the ideas people have (who ironically must not love their hetero spouse or they'd understand) so against, so afraid. Who'd think about that kind of "sex" which is cruel and unusual punishment and should be treated as such compared to a simple loving relationship. I am sure too many too think "they probably like that", as I cannot imagine the "ideas" based on some of the conservatives of this race. I guess why that crossed my mind or struck me is they probably go hand in hand to biggots, "going to jail have fun with __" like it's a punishment. It is. But gay marriage? I'd assume like any loving relationship, it's a joy (not married can't make a marriage is punishment joke). I guess that's a perception issue, that secretly people take joy in idea of "Gay Sex" which is rape for terrible criminals. And it's too much a mental gymnastic to delineate. Save them the trouble by heading the charge of Sex, even in prison, is a loving choice. diatribe off top of head. I do not at all think they are the same, but know anyone hearing prison things of someone being someone's "bitch", and those same people probably know nothing about gay culture.

This is probably not a nationwide solution, but I just think practically, if it were me, if I wanted Children and some rights from a spouse. I would find a Lesbian Couple wanting the same. Go to the courthouse, ok man 1 with woman 1, man 2 with woman 2, wman 2 adult adopt man 1 (so that he shares  estate) woman 2 adopt woman 1. (kinda stole that from your typical pyramid scheme w homes)

Those are my ideas just thinking out loud as I am proud of the states being progressive enough to realize right from wrong.

Thanks for listening/suggesting/ and I hope I can help, think more. Again, I absolutely mean no offense. It disgusts me to have to write, but the idea of prisons for example, or marrying for expediency as prudence like a pyramid scheme i see practical solutions for making the Country aware.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Some of us...especially we transpeople... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ClevelandAttorney, Curiosity

    ...while we surely desire marriage equality...object to that being called "the civil rights issue of our time".  We tend to believe that recognizing our rights to be equal citizens trumps marriage in importance.  What good does it do to be able to get married if we do not have equal employment opportunity, housing access, freedom from being assaulted for appearing in public, or equal access to public accommodations?

    •  I appreciate- as I said I am too far behind to (0+ / 0-)

      know the nuances.

      Well beyond that, I'd be happy to provide whatever necessary as to those.

      I completely do understand. As for African Americans it was actually the commerce clause that did away with some of the issues you mentioned.

      Ie Hotels, etc. denying, Jim Crow, the argument was it impeded interstate commerce as in the aggregate all African Americans would be less likely to travel, affecting, this that, etc.

      Today perhaps there are even more resources due to the almighty $. What would happen if in pooling that idea you chose not to bank at BOA but some entrepeneur started a credit union, or bank?

      That is a lot of lost money going to one run by people with a similar mind.

      Will think about specifics as yes I meant discrimination, but I would say ultimately accepting gay marriage is the culmination of equality? Or as close as you can get until the country catches up with a young gay man choosing his own life. Thanks for the advice. I meant no offense. I am learning, and you are teaching.

      Again, just the same you could use an LLC, for "similar rights" I am sure that the tactics of history combined with the luxury of money could change economics even a bit to allow controlling own destiny. Ie I have a problem peronally my bank is lending to companies destroying the environment. I wish the new "Community Banks" were transparent and not the corner bank, but my community. I see that shift. And a good tactic for some of those issues (as well as taking away). I have no idea how passionate say the community would be to a brick and mortar bank, or online, either expensive but I'd imagine as a concept it could give other ideas. Hope that makes sense. But I do get your point. And agree/understand.

    •  In itself, perhaps not. (0+ / 0-)

      Especially as there are any number of gay people (just like there are any number of straight people) who don't particularly ever want to get married -- but would actually quite like to not get beaten up for coming out.  So, there's that.

      On the other hand:  personally I'm convinced that legalizing same-gender marriage is a crucial step in establishing those rights to be equal citizens -- and in furthering social acceptance -- by stating that hetero couples are formally, officially, no longer recognized as privileged over same-gender couples.

      I don't know that I would call it THE civil rights issue of our time, but I do believe that it has importance beyond the bare bones of the law.

  •  Also in Cleveland; (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    if you know of any good volunteering opportunities, let me know.  I've been looking for 6 months and have been coming up empty.

    •  I volunteer at Hospice and did Legal Aide (0+ / 0-)

      But fallen off, butressed at least by having a side firm and just never taking money (from my in-house counsel).

      Hoping if people suggest that as I am sure there is some specific group, I just don't know today probably will begin my looking. I'll PM you if I find a good way to volunteer.

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