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I'm telling you NOW, YOU better remember 2010. And you better start remembering right now.

 Seriously, what? You think we just forgot to vote that year or something? Newsflash, that wasn't it. You see, I'm pretty sure I wasn't the only one pissed off. Count yourself lucky I didn't vote against you or just, didn't vote at all in 2010. I was pretty unhappy with you folks.
 I mean really, you have the House, the Senate AND the Presidency, and we end up with a law saying people MUST support the lifestyle of health care executive leeches like Bill McGuire?
 I expected better.

 Look Dems, I know it's a hard job, harder I'm sure than I can imagine. But it pays well, has health and dental, AND retirement. It's a better gig than most of us have.
AND, you wanted it.
 So, now that your contract has been extended to 2014, let me warn you. I expect alot from you for you to earn my continued support. I suggest you make strenuous efforts to better explain the issues we face and the ideals of the Democratic party, to all the people and not just the plugged in and the supporters. Us regular folk can understand if you explain it well. I suggest you do a better job of fighting back against the dishonesty of the opposition, a MUCH better job.
 But more than anything, I suggest you avoid making deals that piss off everyone, especially your base!  (Personally, I think you got lucky the opposition had such terrible candidates and marketing in 2012).

 I'll be watching. I'm hopeful. There's some big deals coming up soon now and as you go about that work I'm begging you to 'Remember 2010'.

 I'm not sure how many times more I can say to myself, 'Screw it, if they won't fight for me, I won't vote for them' before I don't.

 I'm serious. I am NOT kidding. No Grand Bargain.
I've been paying for the wealthy since Reagan and I'm damned tired out it.
(That's right, we figured it out. When you raise withholding taxes, borrow the surpluses from those program to cover the deficit as you give tax breaks to the rich, it means I'm paying for those tax cuts.)
 The Romneys of the world should be contributing more than 14% or less. You say you like the Buffet rule. Well so do I. How bout it Dems?

 Get some things done that please your base. That's gonna work out ALOT better for you in 2014 than pissing us off again.

Seriously, I would strongly advise you to 'Remember 2010'.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Just think of Eric Cantor's smug expression, (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    irate, Sheri Nakai, Wary, yella dawg

    smirks, disingenuous arguments, and unwillingness to negotiate in good faith.  Grrrrrrrrrrr!

    THAT should get People Who Are Paying Attention to the polls in 2014.

    -4.75, -5.33 Cheney 10/05/04: "I have not suggested there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11."

    by sunbro on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 01:03:24 PM PST

    •  The way to motivate folks for the polls (13+ / 0-)

      of 2014 is to fight like hell for them in 2013.

      Before you win, you have to fight. Come fight along with us at Texas Kaos.

      by boadicea on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 01:10:40 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Not necessarily. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sunbro, ConfusedSkyes, Wary

        Anger is a far stronger motivator for midterm elections than satisfaction, and it's hard (for ordinary people) to be angry at an opposition that has been blown away regardless of how much money they still control.  There are no simple answers to this conundrum other than this: They're probably going to retake the Senate and obliterate our House gains in 2014, so we might as well do everything we possibly can with them.

        "They fear this man. They know he will see farther than they, and he will bind them with ancient logics." -The stoner guy in The Cabin in the Woods

        by Troubadour on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 01:14:42 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Are you throwing in the towel Troubadour? (7+ / 0-)

          If we expect to get what we want in policy we have to tell our government quite loudly what we want. Apply maximum pressure. Timidity will not help us in 14. Good policy will help us. We have elections and win elections in order to govern. We do not govern to win elections.

          No ore excuses. No more putting up with DLC neoliberalism. We now know we can win without Wall Street. We now know we can win in the era of Citizens United. The Republicans are on the run. Or holed up in bunkers. As Charlie Parker said "Now is the Time"

          •  Agreed. (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            sunbro, dennis1958, Wary

            Just saying, the point is to squeeze as much out of the upcoming term as possible, not to win the 2014 elections.  If we do win, all the better, but we have to be realistic about the motivations of midterm voters and the vast, continuing financial advantages of the GOP.  All we proved with this election is that a superb Democratic President with vast grassroots support can defeat wall-to-wall right-wing propaganda.  That's not a recipe for robust, ongoing progress, nor will it be until it's enough for a mediocre Democrat to achieve the same results.

            "They fear this man. They know he will see farther than they, and he will bind them with ancient logics." -The stoner guy in The Cabin in the Woods

            by Troubadour on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 01:26:38 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  You are most correct (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              I watched Ralph Reed today spout off the 1o's of  millions religious voters he rallied in this election AND he also reminded Stan Greenberg Dem pollster he KNOWS that Dems will NOT come out in 2014 NO MATTER WHAT because the youth voters, the African American voters and others are notorious for NOT voting in non Presidential mid term elections.

              This diary totally fails to mention the fact that hundreds of bills were passed by a Dem House only to be obstructed and to die in the Dem controlled Senate. Cap and Trade, Dream act to name a couple off top of my head.

              Also of most importance long term, well into the future is a SCOTUS appointment in second term. The Dems keeping even slight control of the Senate is of utmost importance to prevent a long term annihilation of any progressiveness for a lifetime of many posting here now.  SIX extreme conservative SCOTUS appointments would totally annihilate  what left of the New Deal, etc.

              I do think we can hold onto the Senate at least in 2014.

              Re-Elect President Barack Obama & RECALL GOP 2012

              by Wary on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 05:03:06 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Thats another thing to be mad about (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                devis1, Sunspots

                we had the Senate, just as today. We didn't change the fillibuster rules then, but NOW we think we will?
                Woulda been helpful back then eh?
                No I didn't directly mention those bills. I considered them covered under 'hard job' and 'do better'.
                Is their job to get things done or make excuses?

                Again. I'm on our side, I want us to win in 2014. I have a clue how important it is.
                But if you want to say that our side stayed home because they always do, according to that puke Reed. I'll have to respectfully disagree. I think we lost votes over the health care debate and the mandate and a feeling the Dems didn't have the back bone to fight for us.
                If you can prove me mistaken, I'll stand corrected and thank you for enlightening me.

          •  I say we put pressiue on Democrats (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            elijah311, Cedwyn, Quicklund, yella dawg

            AND Republicans!!  Let the Rethugs feel our ire!!!!!

            They don't get a free pass!!!!  Fuck the GOP!!!!

            -4.75, -5.33 Cheney 10/05/04: "I have not suggested there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11."

            by sunbro on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 01:31:04 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  We just kicked repubathug ass (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              they don't get it but they felt our ire

              •  We've got to keep it up. (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                dennis1958, Illinois IRV

                The American People must apply pressure on BOTH sides right NOW.  This is no time to let up on the pressure.  If the Republicans heard it from us every day in thousands of communications, they would have a clear message that we want them to put up or shut up.  The same old song and dance by the disingenuous Republicans will not work anymore if we get in their faces 24/7.

                -4.75, -5.33 Cheney 10/05/04: "I have not suggested there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11."

                by sunbro on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 02:22:19 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  totally agree (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  sunbro, svboston

                  During the last health care debate I called Dems and Repubathugs castigating them to give us all health care as good as they get or give up theirs.
                  My cellphone is charged and loaded with cash. the calls begin again monday. Different message this time though.
                  For the Dems, don't dar betray the base.
                  For the repubathugs work with us or I'll move to your district to vote against you or something. Gotta figure out what they might actually hear, if there IS such a thing.

                  •  We should emulate the late Patrick Swayze's (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:

                    character in the movie "Ghost" when communicating with the Republican politicians.  Make the Rethugs hear our complaints In Their Beds At Night!!!


                    -4.75, -5.33 Cheney 10/05/04: "I have not suggested there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11."

                    by sunbro on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 02:44:59 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  Here is the way we need to treat Eric Cantor, (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:

                    Paul Ryan, John Boehner, and Mitch McConnell:

                    -4.75, -5.33 Cheney 10/05/04: "I have not suggested there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11."

                    by sunbro on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 02:46:52 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

          •  Smashmouth football. (5+ / 0-)

            When you block for your quarterback and your running backs, GUESS WHAT, you move the ball down the field.

            It's time to show some support and get into some Republican politicians faces.  No more fucking around.

            No more apologizing for the GOP.  Let's unite and beat them.

            -4.75, -5.33 Cheney 10/05/04: "I have not suggested there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11."

            by sunbro on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 01:37:58 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  Belief that it makes a difference ... (4+ / 0-)

          ... is the strongest motivator of all.

          In much of the country, its not possible to elect people on partisan Democratic anger alone.

          Support Lesbian Creative Works with Yuri anime and manga from ALC Publishing

          by BruceMcF on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 02:15:13 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  This is why I no longer vote in every election, (0+ / 0-)

            and believe a lot of people don't vote at all for this same reason.

            There is no better motivation killer than giving the impression that an effort made is useless. President Obama (and other Dems) have used the word hope a lot and it is time for them to just do the actions that would naturally generate it.

            It does not matter that the other party never even mentions the word and could care less about anybody's aspirations but their own. Motivation does not come from voters knowing the other party is this dark cloud full of sad sacks.

            Results matter.

      •  The people need to fight like hell, (9+ / 0-)

        NOT just the politicians.

        The Tea Party protested every step of the way with Obamacare and watered down the legislation by making there voices heard.  We need to get in the faces of the Rethugs just as bad and worse.

        You must unite against the enemy to succeed at all times, NOT just at the ballot box.

        Write letters to your Congress representatives and Senators, protest on the streets, organize, and get in their faces.  We need to fight every day!

        Boycott the Fox News and Rush Limbaugh advertisers.   Make the crazies like Karl Rove know they are not welcome in town.  Tell Bill O'Reilly and Glenn Beck that they lie for a living.  Live your passions every day!  Take our country forward!

        -4.75, -5.33 Cheney 10/05/04: "I have not suggested there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11."

        by sunbro on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 01:27:46 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Yeah, I do remember. . . (14+ / 0-)

      A bunch of whining, disengenious, self-serving so-called Progressives who stood by with their collective thumbs up their collective arses and watched State Houses fall; good Democratics go by the wayside; and Nut Cases get elected in once Democratic districts,  all of  which allowed the Tea Party to redistrict in a GOP House of Representatives majority that will take a generation to eliminate. Oh, yeah I remember it welll. . .

      So, Denny how much you want to bet your threat here won't be passed around the Right Wing echo chamber. You are just doing your part to give them a ray of sunshine on a cloudy day.

      Compromise is the pavement of the Road to Democracy. I want compromise. I insist on compromise. That means a dialectic is taking place, and the end result will eliminate the excesses of the Right AND the Left.  So, here's a cookie, and find a corner. You clowns almost cost us this election. Don't to it again. Vote, everytime. Whether you like it or not.

      •  Not at all! (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        jct, dennis1958, svboston, Sunspots

        Democrats supported progressives.  Minnesota put a LIBERAL Democrat in the governor's office after he defeated the safe centrist in the primary.  

        Voters need a reason to go to the polls in the midterm election.  

        Now if Democrats raise the eligibility age for Medicare I will have a reason to go to the polls in 2014 and it will not be to vote for Al Franken.  But I will continue to support progressives wherever I find them.  When progressives have a reason to vote as they did on the marriage and voter id amendments, it is remarkable what we can to do a state legislature!

      •  We did not cost you any election. (6+ / 0-)

        We tried your DLC nonsense. Where did it get us. A crashed economy, slashed social programs and massive debt. Sure there is a dialectic but there is also an Overton window. You DLC types pushed the Overton window further to right. Which means your dialectical process starts on ground favorable to the corporate interests. We saw what happened in the health care negotiations. That is not acceptable for the future.

        Shove your cookie and do not tell me to stand in the corner. If we had pursued a real progressive agenda that did not sell out working people to the corporate fat cats we would have won in 2010.

        •  nonsense and crap (6+ / 0-)
          A crashed economy, slashed social programs and massive debt.
          please outline which social programs were slashed.  and please explain by how much the deficit was recently reduced.  

          everybody knows your first point is bullshit, as the economy was crashed when obama took office.

          i can't believe this HRable dreck got recommended.

          Please don't dominate the rap, Jack, if you got nothin' new to say - Grateful Dead

          by Cedwyn on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 01:51:45 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Welfare reform in the nineties. The elimination (3+ / 0-)

            of banking regulations. The so called "reform" of the commodities market and the failure to regulate credit derivatives. All happened in the DLC dominated Clinton administration. The seeds of the crash were sown when Clinton worked with Republicans to gut regulation of the finance markets. I never mentioned Bush but I did mention the DLC. Which is the Democratic Leadership Conference. Neoliberalism under Clinton shares a large part of the blame for our economic woes. We need to face up to it and reject those discredited policies;. I want us to act like Democrats, not Republican Lites.

            By moving further to the right in the Clinton years we moved the Overton Window. We ceded ground to the Republicans. Progressivism is about do what is right for the bottom 99% not the Masters of the Universe. Study a little economic history. Then consider the fact that both Clinton's and Obama's economic advisers are Wall Streeters. Hell there are the same people. Watch the PBS Frontline documentary about Brooksley Bourne and her attempt to regulate credit derivatives.

            How about we demand that the finance services industry serve the public. Instead of the other way around. Elizabeth Warren should not be a Senator, she should be Secreatry of the Treasury appointed by Obama in 2009. Thank God she is a senator but we could have used her over the last four years.

            •  TY kmackle (0+ / 0-)

              And bravo! I like cedwyn. I'm impressed with cedwyn. However, I also felt a rebuttal was in order.
              I could NOT have done it as well as you have.
              Thank you.

            •  All of those things happened AFTER (0+ / 0-)

              the dems lost control of congress because jackasses didn't fucking vote, and continued to split the ticket in the next two elections, then voted for Nader in 2000.

              If we're gonna go back to 1992, I think the lesson is that giving up on having a majority because it does some dumb things shows that even worse things happen when you are in the minority.

              We get all the levers of power once every generation and we always fuck it up in a couple years.

              In 1968, it was a schism over the presidency.  I was only 2 years old at the time so I barely know what that was about.  Disunity = no prez.

              In 1980, the Iran hostage situation probably gifted us with Reagan.  But the primary challenge to Carter didn't help.

              In 1994, it was a sad because Clinton botched his early politics with gays and health care

              In 2010, Obama merely saved us from a depression, saved the auto industry, got SOME kind of healthcare and financial regulation done and got us most of the way out of IRAQ.  He also did what he campaigned on in Afghanistan, increased the focus there.   He also did some things that weren't so good, extending national security state, failing to close gitmo, and once again because of congress, didn't have enough votes to get more than centrist legislation done.

              But that's not enough progress, so we shoot it in the foot 2 freaking years later by staying home.

              Christ on a crutch, we only HAD majorities because of the Rahm Emmanuel third way corporate dems.  Those majorities let us DO things.   Not perfect things, not everything but NO MAJORITY = NO PROGRESS.

              And because we had the brilliance to stay home on the fucking redistricting year, we're going to have a structural disadvantage in the house for a decade.

              Now that corporate dems are discredited we're casting about for something else that can get elected in gerrymandered red district.  If we don't find it, we're stuck with at best another decade of divided government where it is all we can do to hold the status quo, and at worst, the Rs have a good election year and get their hands on the levers of power they might well have done this year had Obama been a less capable leader and politician.

              •  I did not stay home in 10. I voted as did (0+ / 0-)

                everyone else in my extended family. I voted a straight Democratic ticket as is my habit. I voted for the Dem candidiate for Governor in Florida even though she opposed marriage equality. I voted for a Dem for Senate who did not even bother to campaign hard because everyone assumed Charlie Crist would get the Dem vote even though he was not the Dem candidate. I respected the official boycott of the Florida Presidential primary because that is what my party asked me to do. I walked precincts and phone banked in a county that was so Republican they did not ever vote for FDR.

                I have earned my stripes. So I get to complain when the big money boys who never walk precincts or phone bank roll over me and my values. My dedication is to the party. I do not shift in the wind like the money boys do.

                Our job is to persuade people that we are right on policy. If there is no difference between us and Republicans then there is no reason to vote for us. And if adopting Republican policies is the right thing to do then why not become Republicans? Rahm Emmanuel and his friends at the DLC help set this economy up for failure. So why do they get to dictate policy now? Wall Street gave up any right to offer policy to this party when they turned against the President. We won without them. We do not need them. And our policy should help those who are powerless. The wealthy already own one political party. They do not need to own one half of the other.

                You totally misunderstand the President. He believes in bipartisanship more than anything else. He wants Republican approval. He rejects the idea of 50% + 1. And that means that he is only as liberal as he can get away with. He sold down the river a lot of progressives. But we rallied around him and worked our hearts out for him. But now we want a seat at the table. And we are going to fight for the policies we believe in. Because we believe that those policies are the right policies. Government should favor working people over the investor class. Every aspect of neoliberalism has been shown to be completely wrong.

                •  I Agree with this (0+ / 0-)

                  "Our job is to persuade people that we are right on policy"

                  I think the way to do that is to convince VOTERS we are right on policy and have them VOTE a majority so we can VOTE the legislation into being.

                  I'll point out that most of those conservadems who were wobbly in 2009-2010 did in fact lose their jobs, whether or not they voted our way.

                  Get a movement demanding good policy and we're a lot more likely to get it.

                  Complaining that the people we do have are a bunch of spineless wimps who don't even want to do anything useful isn't a way to get more of them voted into office.

                  Obama does precisely as much as he has votes for.  It is a hell of a lot less than we want, and is obviously less than he wants too (given the house bills that died in senate in the first 2 years, and the senate bills that died in house the second two years)

                  Obama does NOT want to preside over a debt ceiling default.  That is bad for the country and, prior to 2012, would have been suicide for what he'd actually accomplished in the first term as well as for himself politically (and likely result in Dodd Frank and ACA rolled back, 6+ conservative supreme court appointees etc).

                  So in many ways he was over a barrel in 2010.  He got a status quo budget passed (the "cuts" were from funds we failed to spend in prior years and stimulus expiration).   Then he tried every angle he could to try to accomplish 2 things.

                  1.  Not go into default
                  2.  Try to get the Rs to break the Norquist pledge, even a little.

                  (I don't agree with how far he went on #2 either, but that seems to be what is going on)

                  He's not in that situation this time around.  He can raise revenue through inaction.  He can defend his policy wins and longer term policy aims (eg exit from Afghanistan) from his first term with his veto pen, even if the dems get "shellacked" again in 2014.   We're likely to see enough filibuster reform that he can freaking appoint people without resorting to recess appointments.

                  Drum up popular support for good things.  Yes.  If you do, he's more likely to succeed, even with the limited tools at his disposal (executive+senate, with resistance from some of judiciary and all of the house).

                  But if you complain that he, as a man, is spineless, is guaranteed to start out with a failing position blah blah WILL depress the dem vote instead of expanding it.   Look at the convention.  Fired up Dems arguing forcefully for the Dem positions....and we got more voters to the polls because they were fired up..not depressed and angry.

                  Winning breeds winning.  Recriminations breed failure.

                  Right now the progressive movement is barely on the table as a movement.   Only 25% of the country self-identifies as liberal, compared to 35% conservative.  Progressive POLICIES are popular, but people vote mostly for their tribe, and the progressive caucus is only about 1/3 of dems right now (maybe approaching half in the house given how small the house caucus is at the moment).

                  Unless voting for progressive policies won't get our congresscritters fired (as happened in 1992 and 2010) it is going to be hard to get the votes for progressive policies.

                  •  I do not believe Obama is "spineless". (0+ / 0-)

                    I understand that his core belief is bipartisanship. But he is not going to get it. To paraphrase Groucho Marx "Whatever he is for I'm against it!". We need to balance the budget. If only for the sake of being able to more effectively battle the next economic downturn. I saw this coming during the debate on the first Bush tax cut. I never bought the argument that the economy of 2001 was fundamentally different from other economies. I knew that with every boom there would be a bust. And going into a bust with little or no debt is better than going into a bust with large debt.

                    We as Democrats have been too pro Wall Street since 1992. Too pro deregulation since 1977. We have responsibility to take for this collapse. And we must learn the lesson. The DLC types have not learned the lesson. Ben Nelson did not learn the lesson. And that stymied the recovery. Extended unemployment. Caused great anxiety among the poor and elderly. And we did a lousy job of confronting those fears. It is up to politicians to convince me to vote and support them. Not the other way around. They are public servants. They are not entitled to their jobs.

                    We progressives must take the long view. We used to be the majority view point. We used to have the solutions that most Americans agreed with. More importantly we have the right solutions. The right policy. And we get to fight for these policy ideas within our party. And if we are not allowed to fight for our policy ideas then we are entitled to leave. What angered many progressives in the health care debate was not that we did not get single payer. it was that we were denied a hearing on single payer.

                    So if you do not want to hear our ideas fine. But do not expect to win the next election without us. We progressives made the difference. We did the volunteering. We overcame the money gap through our efforts. But if you do not want us around, well we can take a hint.

        •  So you pushed the Overton window even further? (0+ / 0-)

          Please explain how that was the solution.

      •  I call bullshit on this for the umpteenth time. (9+ / 0-)

        This is the myth that would not die.

        The left wing of the Democratic Party did vote in 2010, for Dems.  It was the conservative side of the party and especially Independents that switched or stayed home, when they didn't see much of a fight from Dem leadership to help Main Street.

        •  asdf (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          dance you monster

          The state races are more consequential for our daily lives than the presidential race. GOTV

          by 2laneIA on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 07:04:05 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  looks like dance you monster (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            was right according to the analysis at that link. I quote

            'The 2010 midterms revealed the fragility of this electoral base. While both Solid Liberals and Hard-Pressed Democrats remained solidly behind Democratic congressional candidates in 2010, support slipped substantially among New Coalition Democrats and Post-Moderns – not because Republicans made overwhelming gains in these groups, but because their turnout dropped so substantially. Where two-thirds of New Coalition Democrats came out to vote for Obama in 2008, just 50% came out to back Democrats in 2010. The drop-off in the Democratic vote was even more severe among Post-Moderns, 65% of whom backed Obama, but just 43% of whom came to the polls for Democrats in 2010.'

      •  I did vote in 2010 (6+ / 0-)

        Thanks for the cookie.
        I see your point of course. Vote for our team no matter what.
        The 'vote for us cause the other guy is worse' strategy can only carry you so far, in my house anyway. Didn't 2010 prove that to you?
        And thats the point whole point of the diary/rant.
          I vote for people who I think will do the best job of fighting for my interests. You may have other reasons, and thats cool.
         I disagree with you though when you say that it's wrong to voice displeasure with our team because the other team may use it as ammo.
         Seems to me that voicing that displeasure is the essence of democracy, nay the very life blood of democracy.

      •  redistricting took affect this year (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        and while the GOP maintained their majority, we did make gains.

        "Okay, until next time. Keep sending me your questions, and I will make fun of you... I mean, answer them." - Strong Bad

        by AaronInSanDiego on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 03:39:39 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  The 2014 election looks like a harder map. I hope (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          yella dawg, Sunspots

          someone here does a diary on it because the sooner we get started thinking about it, the better.

          202-224-3121 to Congress in D.C. USE it! You can tell how big a person is by what it takes to discourage them. "We're not perfect, but they're nuts."--Barney Frank 01/02/2012

          by cany on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 05:27:43 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  This again. The Zombie 2010 election theory. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        dance you monster

        The 2010 midterms revealed the fragility of this electoral base. While both Solid Liberals and Hard-Pressed Democrats remained solidly behind Democratic congressional candidates in 2010, support slipped substantially among New Coalition Democrats and Post-Moderns – not because Republicans made overwhelming gains in these groups, but because their turnout dropped so substantially.

        The state races are more consequential for our daily lives than the presidential race. GOTV

        by 2laneIA on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 07:02:21 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Messina says OFA intact & wait. Maybe 2014 & OFA (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    exotrip, Lawrence, yella dawg

    will get together. I have a hunch they will for one final time so Obama could possibly have both houses of congress for his last two years. Obama could not campaign in 2010  - the economy was too bad. But in 2014 he is freed. What do you think>

    •  Obama could not campaign in 2010 (6+ / 0-)

      because he and other Democrats were afraid to campaign on their one big ticket accomplishment, health care reform. Whether or not the ACA will work is another question but Dems were afraid to campaign on it. Maybe because they were not proud of it. Maybe the mean old republicans scared them. But the campaign in 2010 made the same mistakes republicans made in 2012 they listened to and believed the right wing noise machine.

  •  I suggest the naysayers, complainers and base (15+ / 0-)

    at least wait until they know what the bills are, and the president's real intentions are, before they go off the rail pulling their hair like the sky is falling. For example: the medicare bill, before they looked at it, were B Ing about cuts in benefits where there were none, or DADT, where Obama preferred to go through the courts to make it permanent, instead of allowing any chance a republican president and super majority congress in the future over turn it. There was a lot of jumping to conclusions and ignoring a totally history making obstructionist republican congress. And the ACA, where people expected to get everything right away, instead of understanding, Obama and the Democratic congress, had to first pass a law giving them the right by law(the most important part) to reform health care for years to come. Then fight like heck in the 2014 midterm, to make sure we get rid of more teabaggers.

    •  thank you! (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      amsterdam, Larsstephens, cany, yella dawg
      I suggest the naysayers, complainers and base at least wait until they know what the bills are, and the president's real intentions are, before they go off the rail pulling their hair like the sky is falling.
      you'd think this would be common sense.

      Please don't dominate the rap, Jack, if you got nothin' new to say - Grateful Dead

      by Cedwyn on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 01:52:55 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  I agree, it's complicated stuff. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      A simple person like me can't understand all the finer points of the methods and strategies of politics, especially at the national level. I get that.
      The point remains that 2010 was a problem.
      I'm simply urging our Dem leaders to avoid the things that led to 2010 and maybe throw their base a cookie or 2 while their at it.
      Let me ask you. How much of the 2010 problem do you think was because it appeared that single payer was taken off the table before anyone sat down? Enough perhaps?
      I've never voted for a republican. I'm on our side.
      But, I reject the idea that it's wrong for me to criticise my Dem leaders or that it's wrong for me to expect more of them AND to let them know it.

      •  As a progressive, I can answer your question. (3+ / 0-)

        The number of liberals progressive enough to want single payer was not large enough to overcome the voters who did not--not in Congress, anyway.  

        For Congress and for the President, at a time of deep recession, attempting to gut a dominant US industry--the insurance industry--would have been suicidal.

        With a monster issue like health care, you can't eat it in a single big gulp. You have to start with bites and nibbles that a majority of people can agree to (e.g., pre-existing conditions shouldn't make it impossible to buy insurance).

        We should look at the example of the conservatives who have been successfully nibbling at Roe v Wade for these 40 years. Prime example of a nibble that a great many people agreed with was the "partial birth abortion" issue. Until this year we see how close they came to getting a Supreme Court that could reverse Roe v Wade itself.  

        •  I agree with you (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:

          I 'get it' today as I 'got it' then.
          I didn't like it, I was unhappy about it, but I got it.
          Single payer wasn't realistic at that time.
          I don't believe everyone 'got it' though.
          That's why my exhortation (this diary) includes a plea to explain things better.

          But you didn't answer my question.
          The question was, how much of the blame for the 2010 problem can be attributed to the appearance of betrayal and caving in to republicans in the health care debate.
          Most of it I think. I think that's where we lost the most people. People were mad right?. If not this, then what was it?
          Please don't get me wrong, I appreciate your wisdom on this.
          But my question remains unanswered and the answer I believe explains 2010.

          As a  greenbell pointed out in this thread, bad deals will lead to a repeat of 2010.
          What do you think will happen if the social security retirement age gets raised as part of a new grand bargain? 2010 may very well become known as a mini-2014 thats what.
          Will the base say 'oh thats ok fogitaboutit'.
          I think not.
          There are many potential mis-steps and pitfalls.
          They don't have an easy job ahead of them.

          Which brings me back to the whole point of the diary.
          Which is basically, do better and don't do us wrong or 2014 will very likely end up the same or worse than 2010.
          Why is that a bad message?

          Reality isn't always well received (much like this diary).
          Nonetheless, it would be foolish and harmful to leave the base feeling betrayed, again.
          I get that.
          I hope our Dem leaders are listening and that they 'get it' too.

  •  You do understand (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ban nock, SlowNomad, yella dawg

    That, in part, cause you stayed home in 2010...there is literally no way that what you are demanding can get done.

    We have divided government now...the republicans control the house.  Legislation must pass both the house and senate.  Thus, not much is really gonna happen for two years, much as very little happened in the last two years.

    Sure, there will be some dinky shit done, and sadly, because, in part, you didn't vote...there will need to be some compromises to get necessary shit through the house

    I'm not talking full capitulation, but yeah, the republicans, in part because of you, control 1/3 of government.  This, we should expect that the deals cut should favor dems by about 2/3 and republicans about 1/3...if things work out as they should.

    The key is, you are, in part, why this is the case.  Be proud.  Nothing progressive is gonna pass for the next two years...cause the republicans control the you will sit out the next elections, helping, in part, the republicans stop progressive legislation for another two years.  Be very proud of yourself.

    "Empty vessels make the loudest sound, they have the least wit and are the greatest blabbers" Plato

    by Empty Vessel on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 01:33:21 PM PST

  •  Underperformance indeed. (10+ / 0-)

    The time to 'strike while the iron is hot' is almost always the first two years of a Presidency, when the country as a whole is willing to experiment with you.  Instead, we were treated to two years of letting yahoos scream at townhalls and pretending they had valid points, and that 'bipartisanship' with those points was actually feasible.  

    And I'm assuredly not merely pointing at the President - the Congressional Dems took the same sort of attitude, refusing to reform filibuster usage despite years of Republican abuse of it to prevent us from passing anything more meaningful, all while Joe Lieberman stabbed Dems in the back at every opportunity, and actually got rewarded for it, instead of punished.

    Reform the filibuster rules, let the 'cliff' pass, let the Bush tax cuts expire, and then, and only then, present House dems with tax cuts for 98% of the country, and tell them it's entirely on them if they try to blackmail for anything more to pass it, because they're not getting it.  They can be sane and reasonable, and help the country, or they can piss off pretty much every American by continuing to be self-centered crony capitalists.

    •  Almost always. Emphasis on the "almost." (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      This time, the opposition party stated from the start that their chief goal was to oppose the President.

      •  That actually made it more obvious this time. (3+ / 0-)

        If there was any time in the last 4 years to get anything done, it most assuredly was before 2010.  2 years were wasted in sitting back and listening to tea party idiots.  Such health insurance reform as we got should have been pushed through in the first six months, so that a few other issues could have been addressed in the first two years.

        The Republicans scream about 'Obamacare' being forced upon them - it actually should have been, and far more quickly.  They're always going to make such claims, so we might as well have simply actually done it, rather than letting them poison the well for years, so that much of the American public still thinks 'Obamacare' is some horrible socialist plot.

        •  Obama tried (0+ / 0-)

          He wanted it done before the summer recess.

          Congress was slow.  Especially the senate, they just wouldn't vote stuff out of commitee.  I'm looking at YOU Max Baucus and YOU Olympia Snowe (for teasing us for months then refusing to vote out the final product because your leadership turned you from a moderate who voted for stimulus to a lockstep republican tool like all the others)

  •  Take your vote and go fuck yourself with it! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    We, the Democratic Party, just won the fucking election and if you don't want to vote for us in 2 years because we do something like Obamacare again, then not only do I not want your vote, but you can take your vote and go fuck yourself with it!

    so long and thanks for all the fish

    by Anton Bursch on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 05:02:44 PM PST

    •  hr for inappropriate (0+ / 0-)

      and personal venom.

      The state races are more consequential for our daily lives than the presidential race. GOTV

      by 2laneIA on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 06:28:48 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I took it in a George Carlin kinda way (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        So I thought I was being wished good things!
        in fact I was thinking of responding 'thank you and .... well just thank you'.
        I figure everyone has a bad day now and then, and I'm a big boy and politics certainly can bring emotional responses and well, I hold no grudge.
        I'm gonna ask you to consider removing the HR.
        I knew my diary may not be universally well received (boy was I right!) and this poster appears to me to have a rich history here and well I'd like to just let it go this time.

        •  He has a rich history of saying things like this. (0+ / 0-)

          But the HR was for what he said this time.  If I wanted to read comments like that I would hang out at HuffPo or Redstate.

          However, I will remove the HR at your request since it's your diary.

          The state races are more consequential for our daily lives than the presidential race. GOTV

          by 2laneIA on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 06:55:50 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  yes, i have a rich rec diary history (0+ / 0-)

            in which i say what i think

            and what i think about a punk telling Democrats on Daily Kos that if they do more of what just won them the election that he won't vote for them is that he can take his IMPOTENT THREAT NOT TO VOTE and go fuck himself with it

            but thank goodness he has YOU to stand with him and threaten Democrats

            thank goodness!

            so long and thanks for all the fish

            by Anton Bursch on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 08:57:43 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  grow up. nt (0+ / 0-)

              The state races are more consequential for our daily lives than the presidential race. GOTV

              by 2laneIA on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 09:00:58 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  grow a sense of loyalty (0+ / 0-)

                and stop defending someone who's anti Obamacare on the same week that we just won an election defending it

                so long and thanks for all the fish

                by Anton Bursch on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 09:12:39 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Anti-obamacare would be a gross misrepresentation (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:

                  of my position. Being upset that I was hoping for AT LEAST a debate on single payer and being unhappy about helping people like McGuire amass fortunes.
                  Is NOT the same thing as being anti-obamacare

                  •  i guess that when you wrote this: (0+ / 0-)

                    Count yourself lucky I didn't vote against you or just, didn't vote at all in 2010. I was pretty unhappy with you folks.
                     I mean really, you have the House, the Senate AND the Presidency, and we end up with a law saying people MUST support the lifestyle of health care executive leeches like Bill McGuire?

                    that you were anti Obamacare.  you are saying that you are not, so, i believe you.


                    i REALLY wish that you and other like you who keep characterizing the majorities we had for a few months after the 2008 election as if we had progressive majorities.  we did not.  we are a big tent party with people from all 50 states and many of those states are NOT as progressive as others.  and that means that the elected representatives from that state SHOULD NOT be either.  

                    i really don't understand why that is so hard to understand and accept.  it's one thing to expect that other states don't prevent your state from progress (i am from WA and we just legalized recreational pot) but it's another thing to demand that other states take part in the progress in your state.  we are actually 50 states and we have local governments.  i don't want what Bloomberg did in NYC to be forced on my city or my state.  it works for them, good, but leave us the fuck alone.

                    i care about the people in this country.  i am grateful for the progress made on health care and i am HAPPY to pay extra money to some fuck face millionaire if that is what it takes right now to save lives.  fuck the money they get.  they can enjoy it while it last, cause it won't last all that long.  each step of progress leads to another as long as we don't weaken ourselves by infighting.  which is what happened in 2010.  WE scared off the new voters and minority voters from voting mid term because we shit on Obama and Democrats for 2 years straight instead of having a view of the long game and supporting them so we kept our VERY NEW AND FRAGILE AND UNTESTED coalition together.  i hope we've learned that goddamn lesson.

                    anyway.  as i said in another comment.  i am probably a little too intense, because i'm still not transitioned from fighting mode for this election.  so, sorry about the fucks.

                    so long and thanks for all the fish

                    by Anton Bursch on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 10:27:30 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  you make some good points here (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Anton Bursch

                      I don't agree with all your conclusions but,
                      I have been very upset with Baucus and your words have made me question whether I've placed to much of that anger on Dems in general.

                      I'm a 'taxes buy civilization' guy. It makes me feel good that my taxes are helping others.

                      I too am thankful for the good in Obamacare, and theres ALOT of good there. compared to where we were.
                      But, I feel soo strongly that health insurance companies are a leech on the funding of a basic human right in our modern society that it angers me greatly to pay for their CEO compensation. Especially given that their quest for profits lead them to deny coverage and thereby care, of people who are suffering. I find that appalling and outrageous. I'm a universal care guy so no, I'm not totally happy with Obamacare, not by a long shot.

                      Don't write no more Anton I gotta go to sleep man! lol
                      cya next time

                •  Loyalty does not require rudeness (0+ / 0-)

                  which the President who can do no wrong in your eyes might be the first to agree with.  

                  When you make comments in a diary you are in someone else's house, i.e., the diarist.  Inviting him to perform an anatomically impossible act is HR worthy, and you should be ashamed of yourself.  Obviously you aren't, and that is no shock to me, given your rich history of intemperate remarks. I usually ignore them because you learn nothing and change nothing.

                  What is loyalty? How should we measure or value it?  Is it important to be loyal to a political party, no matter what?  What if the party is divided?  Which faction should you be loyal to?  Does loyalty to a candidate you helped to elect trump all, no matter what the candidate does as an elected official?  I would argue that if the Democrats had listened to the base of the party in 2010 they would have launched a full-throated attack on the Republicans for wanting to cut entitlements, and we would not have suffered losses attributable in part to voters believing the Republican propaganda that Dems cut Medicare in the ACA.  

                  Alas, the Dems were preparing real cuts themselves (Simpson-Bowles) and could not do that, plus they were running like scared bunnies from the ACA.  They almost got entitlement cuts in the "Grand Bargain" of 2011 that crashed.  The President and the Democratic 5th Column that expresses itself through front groups like Third Way are about to take another run at it, which is abysmally stupid politics and policy, but never mind. Dennis1958 is reasonable to think that it is past time for the base to push back, and hard.  So far, a lot of liberal groups are, but give them time and they'll fold like lawn chairs because that's what they do. It is left to ordinary citizens to defend themselves if no one else will.

                  The state races are more consequential for our daily lives than the presidential race. GOTV

                  by 2laneIA on Sun Nov 11, 2012 at 11:42:46 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  anatomically impossible ?? (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:

                    oh ye of little faith.
                    I think I could do it!
                    Depending of course on what the definition of 'vote' is.
                    If vote is a ballot then,.. well  there's a way.
                    If vote is a concept then it could be said that I've been screwing myself for years, just not as throughly as I coulda.

                    all kidding aside.
                    2010 scared me. Minnesota narrowly avoided the fate of states like WI and PA. What happens next in Washington is critically important to me. As a cancer patient on RSDI, Medicare and Medicaid what happens next could very well have profound real life and death consequences for me. And for others.
                    I keep hearing an echo in my mind from the republican town halls, 'let em die!' they yelled. And they were talking about me; and people like me.
                    This diary wasn't offered for glory, my ego is secure.
                    The issues we face are daunting, critically important and to me, very, very personal.

                    In closing, I would ask everyone here, singling out no one, EVERYONE, to be kind to each other here.
                    We're all on the same side.

                    •  Sorry to hear about your illness. (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:

                      These issues are going to be personal to all of us sooner or later.  For you, it's sooner. For me, it comes in a few years hence when I am eligible for Social Security and Medicare, but it is also here now, because Social Security is what lets my father live with dignity.

                      The state races are more consequential for our daily lives than the presidential race. GOTV

                      by 2laneIA on Tue Nov 13, 2012 at 08:08:49 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

            •  dude (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              ok, I'll give ya that a 53 year old guy could be described as a punk and I fully believe you're entitled to your opinion and thats it your right to 'call em like you see em'
              I'm like that alot myself (I 'call em like I see em' too)

              I've been fighting what I call the nazi right since Reagan.
              Voting in EVERY election, voting for our side even if I did have to 'pinch my nostrils shut' sometimes. Admittedly I have voted a 3rd party 3 times on certain offices over those years but only when there was a certainty that the Dem's would win those races and/or my vote would no no negative effect on the Dem candidate.
              It's not likely that I won't continue to vote Dem but to say it's an impotent threat is simply wrong. It most definately IS within the realm of possible realities that the Dems could piss me off enough to not vote for them.
              That''s one of the reasons I wrote the diary.

              Anton maybe I stated things poorly or maybe you misunderstand. I'm not saying I won't vote if they do what won them 2012. I'm saying Dems please don't do what caused us our loses in 2010.

              Anyway, I'm sorry I upset but not sorry I wrote the diary.
              It represents how I feel and resulted in a lively and informative debate. Learning how others think and seeing data I wasn't aware of is helpful to me
              For that I thank all who joined the discussion.


        •  i congratulate you on being an ideological saint (0+ / 0-)

          but the Democratic party just won a major electoral fight that had we lost would have turned this country backwards for decades


          but back to YOU and YOUR demands for what WE do for the next two years.

          who the FUCK do you think YOU are?

          you talk about US like we are the lesser of two evils.  why the FUCK do you think we are going to do what you want when you talk to us that way?  

          oh, do you think that you speak for other voters?  

          NEWS FLASH: the election this week says that you don't.

          so long and thanks for all the fish

          by Anton Bursch on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 09:09:25 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I think I'm a citizen and voter (0+ / 0-)

            I think I have a right to express my views.
            Anton I'm starting to like you more and more, your fiesty!
            I like that in people.

            If you look thru these comments you find many how implore me to vote Dem because the other guys are soo bad. Even if I don't like what the Dems do.
            Thats pretty much the definition of lesser of two evils.

            No I don't speak for others but I know voters who've expressed TO ME that they felt the same.

            in any case this will have to be my goodnight to you.
            I type too slow and I'm too old and I just can't keep up with you.

            Peace love joy Anton, I wish you the best

  •  Right Attitude, Wrong Solution (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    yella dawg

    Look, staying home on election day and risking the possibility of handing control to the plutocrats and crazies--who came this close to throwing us into a depression by not raising the debt ceiling--is not a productive way to vent our collective frustration.

    Instead, we need to work just as hard during the Democratic primaries as we do during the generals. We also need to show up for every election. Show them that we'll be there on election day, every time, and they'll begin to show us the respect that we deserve. Otherwise, we're just turning it over to the old white guys, and forcing center-left Dems to cater to them instead of us.

  •  I agree with your drift (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    But have this caveat.  In 2014 there will be various species of Democrats running.  Some, like Tom Harkin, have been fighting against the Grand Bargain in its mutations for years now.  Rumor has it that Steve King is thinking about running against Tom.  I am going to be so up to my armpits in that election that my family may divorce me, but I would walk across coals for Tom Harkin.  He is not the only one who deserves to have us show up.

    Democrats who stand with us need our support, and not just $10 when Bowers asks. I worked hard for a state senator this year and she won by 120 votes.  Tonight the clerk in our local store told me she voted for her because of me. I am really proud of that and think it's important. Iowa is not Wisconsin because we held on to the state Senate by our fingernails.  So don't write off the Democratic Party because we have bought-and-paid-for idiots like Durbin who are shilling for Social Security cuts.  Find someone you believe in and help them win.

    The state races are more consequential for our daily lives than the presidential race. GOTV

    by 2laneIA on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 07:15:58 PM PST

  •  2010: NEVER AGAIN (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    A thief thinks everybody else is a thief; a liar thinks everybody else is a liar; and a Republican thinks everybody else is as selfish and heartless as they are.

    by rubyduby7 on Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 07:18:04 PM PST

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